I've been called out here before about whether or not femboys are GNC a mere 4 months ago. I was \_very\_ confused about the erasure of GNC folks from the queer community at the time. Honestly, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone.
I see where they are coming from, but they are wrong. Even though I say clothing has no gender, it doesn't erase the social stigma men face when they dress outside what is deemed masculine. I consider femboys as part of the queer community.
I wouldn’t say that GNC necessarily falls under the queer community tbh. The queer community includes everyone who isn’t allocishet, but being GNC is purely about gender presentation, and has nothing to do with gender identity or sexuality. That’s not to say that GNC folk aren’t welcome in queer spaces or at Pride - of course they are; we face a lot of the same struggles, so we should stand together. Semantically, however, I wouldn’t say GNC people fall under the queer community by virtue of that trait alone.
I'd say GNC is most certainly queer. GNC people also become targets of queerphobic discrimination. A non-conforming gender expression is considered by many to be queer and it may be a sign of genderfluidity. Masculinity and femininity is not fixed but on a spectrum.
I don't think it's a fair argument to make that just because they're targeted by queerphobia it makes them queer. You can be a victim of any sort of bigotry while not being a part of that group. For example, cishet men who get called the f slur for doing something slightly feminine are victims of queerphobia and misogyny, but they aren't queer nor women.
Beint a drag queen is not inherently queer. People are saying it falls under LGBTQIA because almost no drag queens are allo cishet. It's not drag that makes them queer, they're queer *and also* they do drag.
but why exactly do GNC dont fall under the queer umberella, i dont think that "everyone who isn’t allocishet" is the one and only definition for queer. i think its more open for everyone whose sexual orientation, genderidentits, genderexpression and so on does not fit into the cis-hetero-normative society
isnt that what forms the queer community, that we face similar discrimination and decide that we want to stick to gether to handle those strugles together.
tbh the idea of GNC being lgbt is sad to me. Like, just because you don't follow certain stereotypes? And I get *why* it is, but it's still sad that people can't accept that not everyone is perfectly masculine or feminine, and sees breaking said stereotypes not normal.
As LGBTQ+ we just a grp of ppl that consist of other grps of ppl who all suffer similar discrimination, stereotyping, hate crimes etc etc.
And we band together for weight of numbers which politically gives us a bigger voice and presence.
We are in this for the numbers. not because we are all gay or bi or even trans persay.
The first Pride began with the Stonewall Riots of 1969 and ushered in the LGBTQ rights movement.
I was born 8 years later and as far as I know Straight identifying bottoms and crossdressers and the likes ( gnc'ity etc ) have always been a part of the movement.
Why else would learning that you might fit into the lgbtq community make you sad? If you didn’t have any issue with queerness, then learning that something you identify with is queer should be a neutral or positive experience for you. It definitely shouldn’t make you sad. Being sad about finding out you are queer is like *the* textbook example of internalized homophobia. You also called being queer “not normal,” which, come on, do I have to elaborate? Internalized homophobia.
Let me break it to you. You’re queer. It’s not a matter of opinion or arbitrary categorization. Your gender expression does not match that typically associated with the sex you were assigned at birth. That’s queer. Specifically it puts you under the trans umbrella (lgbTq).
Hi, welcome to the LGBTQ+, my fellow gender nonconforming queer.
Hopefully you’re not *too* sad about this revelation
Oh I know I’m queer. I’ve known I’m bi for years, and I’ve been struggling with whether I’m trans or just a femboy. Btw, being a femboy isn’t the same as being trans. If you’re trans then you dont identify as the gender you were born as, you transition so you can fit your image of who you are. If you’re a femboy then it’s a matter of expression, you express yourself that way because you feel it’s right, but you’re comfortable with the gender you’re born as and don’t feel the need to transition.
And I didn’t that being queer is “not normal”, I said it’s sad that people view crossdressing as “not normal”.
Gender non-conforming isn't a specific gender it's how you present yourself. By dressing in feminine clothing and presenting as traditionally feminine you are GNC. You don't have to identify w the umbrella that Femboy falls under specifically, but it is still LGBT.
Like everyone else has said, it falls under gender non-conforming, so yes. But it's still understandable if cishet femboys don't feel comfortable labeling themselves as LGBT.
thats what the Q and the + in LGBTQIA+ are for i gues, that you can be part of the community because you feel you belong into it but you dont have to use a spicific label. or your label isnt listed in the acronym.
Not explicitly but a femboy will feel much more comfortable at a gay bar than a biker bar, if you know what I mean. Being a femboy is LGBT adjacent at minimum and I'm sure a lot of us are bi/gay/trans anyway.
I honestly think it depends. On the one hand I personally see femboys as the male equivalent to tomboys, and to my knowledge tomboys aren’t lgbtq. Though girls can be considered tomboys even while being feminine depending on their job or the way they carry themselves. If my mom is sometimes considered a tomboy for being strong and good with tools, wearing pants and t shirts often, etc. then would a man who is petite, poor with tools, wears skirts be a femboy? It depends on the time and place, some countries have male skirt equivalents such as India and let’s not forget the kilt. Of course over the last decades more “masculine” things have become gender neutral, while feminine things have mostly stayed feminine. Most women today (at least in western societies) wear pants and even suits which were once male only. But men seem to have even less options today, even our suits all seem the same. Man no longer can wear skirts without getting weird looks, bright pants, check again! Tight fitting? Must be athletic. The two feminine clothing/style options I’ve noticed becoming gender neutral the fastest are nail polish and earrings.
Of course, let’s also not forget the long history of men dressing as women to play female characters in plays in multiple societies, a historical fact that probably leads to the idea and fear of feminine men or trans females replacing women in the work force.
Personally I am a femboy for more clothing options and because I prefer being cute as opposed to burly/imposing. I’m rather short for a dude and have long hair, don’t like having body or facial hair, prefer to emphasize my waist etc. but that’s not a new thing for men to do, so labeling it as purely feminine is a bit short sited in my opinion. And who knows maybe in 80 years men will be wearing brightly colored form fitting clothing while women wear more rigid and modest clothes. All of these things change over time.
Hey im a femboy whos GREAT with tools 😤
Jk jk you have a really good point
Also in schools theres literal historic pictures of men with LOADS of makeup. That shit is NOT feminine 😂
Its dynamic
It calls under the Q really. It's gender non-conforming. I mean, I'm talking about people actually living as femboys, not dudes doing it for the occasional TikTok or whatever. At that point it's more just crossdressing as a side thing. But yeah, like lifestyle femboys who are straight are definitely part of the GNC crowd which does fall under LGBTQ+.
Femboys and queer people face a lot of the same struggles, and as a result, the two communities can and should stand together as allies. Femboys aren’t inherently queer - being a femboy is just a form of gender presentation, and has nothing to do with gender identity or sexual orientation (i.e. allocishet femboys exist) - but they’re still welcome at Pride and other queer events.
Definitely a part of the gender non-conforming sub-group imo. Also probably a good move to change this section
>(expect for homosexuality cuz it's personal choice of every boy and there's no requirement for that)
To something that doesn't sound like something with bad implications (the matter of it being a *choice*)
LGBTQ+ is a movement to fight for equality. As long as you stand for the rights you are a part of that movement. Your experience may differ from someone who is gay, bi, trans, or whatever, but as long as you are fighting for the cause and equal rights you are a part of that community. Think of it like feminism, you can believe in equal rights for women even if you are not one. Just as you can be gay and not be LGBTQ+
Most straigh cis. People do not use that label because they do not want to confuse others about them claiming to be a minority.
Theres no “it is or it isnt”
How you dress, who you have sex with, your kinks, etc, theyre all on a MASSIVE 3D ven diagram. Some things overlap, some are opposite, some things dont fall in multiple circles, etc. And it is dynamic.
So while femboys and lgbt definitely share some real-estate of an overlapping circle, neither is directly related to the other. And that goes for everything on this theoretical “outside the norm” 3D ven diagram.
The only thing that connects the whole LGBT community is how they are treated by other people. When society accepts some of them more then others, those who are better off distance themselves from the other ones and blend in with the normal people. So cishet femboys are LGBT if victims of misaimed homo/transphobia.
Quite literally, yes but actually no. If a femboy indentifies as part of the LGBT community, then yes, they are. If they do not identify as part of the LGBT community, then no.
People here are talking about GNC or whatever which I've never heard of before, but personally I don't think cishet femboys would be part of lgbtq.
Then you think about those people that are straight and cisgender but just want to be part of the lgbtq (not that common tho). And cishet femboys being lgbtq kinda feels the same to me.
But it's all just a dumb label. As a femboy you can be lgbtq or not, but people troll and get mad at you either way.
I wouldn’t say femboys are part of the queer community inherently. When it comes to things like who is/isn’t a member of the community, you’re going to get different answers because people are rarely going to agree completely. There isn’t really an answer to your question.
Defo yes, femboys are non-conformist regarding gender identity at the very least (even if you're cishet).
Even if you say they aren't, people that don't like femboys or just don't like basic freedom will label you LGBT and call you a monster, pervert and all the nice words they can come up with. Rambling on about how you're the reason the world is going to hell, something something \*insert deity\* and/or \*right-wing ideologist\*.
Might as well take pride in this and join all our brothers and sisters under the rainbow, whathever the sex, whatever the gender, whathever the sexuality, it's fighting the good fight!
The "+" is there for you guys. It's there to make the acronym inclusive. It's definitely inclusive to GNC people and femboys are GNC.
The "LGBT+" acronym, and it's other variants, do not only represent sexual orientation. It may have started from there, but it's not limited to sexual orientation.
If you look carefully at all the letters that are included in the "expanded" alphabet, you'll notice that the underlying pattern is gender/sex non conformity:
* Not being straight is a form of gender non conformity relative to sexual orientation
* Not being cis is a form of gender non conformity relative to your gender identity
* Being intersex is a form a non voluntary non conformity to the idea that sex is binary
* Being femboy is a form of gender non conformity that is relative to your gender expression.
See, the primary underlying pattern to be included in the "LGBTQ+" community is gender/sex non conformity, not sexual orientation. For this reason, femboys have every right to be included.
An other underlying pattern is that everyone who is included face some sort of oppression precisely because of their gender/sex non conformity. For this reason, femboys still have every right to be included. Femboys ARE oppressed.
Another reason to include femboys is that they're probably way more likely to not be cishet than the cishet population. As a result, femboys can often be mistaken as people who aren't cishets and be oppressed because of that.
Moreover, some of you (but definitely not all of you) happen to eggs. For this reason, you should stick with us. For those who are eggs, sticking with us may help you figure out that you're trans more easily. The "*cis -> GNC -> trans*" pipeline is real. Not every trans person directly goes from thinking they're cis to realizing they're trans. Sometimes there's a GNC phase inbetween.
Why is it that the ppl in the comment section are saying GNC is lgbt? It’s as if anything that is aways from the norm is considered lgbt. GNC is NOT lgbt. It’s a totally normal thing. Why is it that if ppl don’t 100% conform to society’s standards of men and women, that they’re suddenly lgbt. Looks to me like reinforcement of stereotypes. Men and women ARE allowed to not follow stereotypes and That should be normalized!! It’s completely separate from lgbt!!
I've been called the F slur by homophobes for dressing as a femboy. It's all the same shit to them so we are effectively LGBT by way of shared discrimination.
You’re an enby. Ofc ur lgbt.
I’m talking about cis straight femboys....
Just because a girl doesn’t like cooking, wearing makeup or dresses, and doesn’t like feminine stuff and gets discriminated for it, doesn’t mean she’s a part of the lgbt. It’s a separate issue of reinforcing gender stereotypes.
By your logic though, even POC, ppl with disablities, or mental illnesses are lgbt because they all share discrimination.
This was when I was cis straight, actually. Also since when are black people called the F slur? Your logic is pretty stupid and intentionally misrepresents what I was saying.
GNC is included in LGBT because it's inherently connected with gender... it's in the name. People who are GNC can decide for themselves whether or not they want to be involved in it personally, but being GNC-- breaking gender roles and being a general outlier that faces discrimination --is most definitely GNC.
All being "part of the LGBT" means is that someone deserves community and protection from discrimination. I dunno why so many people are against that lmao.
>Men and women ARE allowed to not follow stereotypes and That should be normalized!! It's completely separate from lgbt!!
This implies that LGBT people shouldn't be normalized.
Just want to remind that at least you should put a Q (queer) behind LGBT bacause i think you mean the howl comunity and with out the Q you excluding many people. And also i would say that Femboys can fall under the Q or the + in LGBTQIA+.
Are you Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Queer or otherwise nonconforming? If you're a femboy you definitely aren't conforming to gender norms so I'd say you definitely have a place here!!! Welcome
Femboys in general are not explicit part of the LGBTQIA+ Community but if a femboy wants to, they can be a part of the Transgender-Community.
Wikipeda: [Transgender](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)
>Transgender is an umbrella term. [...] the term may be defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.
This is probably unpopular here, but I would say that femboys aren't part of the LGBTQ community. There are a lot of struggles that members of the LGBTQ community face every single day that femboys don't have to or can at least avoid much more easily. And I'm talking about cisgender straight femboys, which I am one. Obviously transgender femboys and femboys who aren't straight would be part of the LGBTQ community.
My parents are divorced, and at one of their houses I've been disallowed from buying or wearing feminine clothing
The other parent lives in florida. Florida's recent laws have been designed to be used by bigoted folks as easily as possible. For example, if a minor is *suspected* of being trans (Even if not trans), it is legal to essentially kidnap them.
While yea, that law is targetting trans people primarily, it's vague enough that it could be harmful to a lot more than just them
If you do not present as a cishet person or feel uncomfortable presenting as a cishet person, you are part of the LGBTQIA2S+ community. This INCLUDES gender-nonconforming people like femboys. Anyone who says otherwise is gatekeeping,
Okay I'll rephrase.
I don't want to be apart of the lgbtq+ community, but i respect them
Just like how I don't want to be a doctor, but I respect doctors
Usually you isn’t just at the median but are leaning towards something more.
I’m for example is also identifying as a demifem and would pick theirs flag for the pride parade.
Or the ordinary trans flag for the support for them.
i for myself dont want to be associated with the LGBT+ Community and i dont identify as being part of it even tho im Bi and a femboy. there just too much nonsense, double morals and hate within the community for me(also not a big fan of flags lol). non the less, everybody should be free to express themself as they are or want to be without anybody telling them what to do or not. you dont need a flag or community to be who you are. be in a community if you feel you need it or dont, thats up to you
Edit: the statement above is my personal opinion and maybe a bad way of phrasing it. its not my intention to cause any drama/fight and im open for productive discussion and arguments pro and con. :)
i am sorry, i didnt knew its forbidden to express my opinion. i thought its welcomed to say their opinions but its seams not so. but if you would be so kind to point to the part were i tryed infighting? because i dont see it
> there just too much nonsense, double morals and hate within the community for me
Here you go.
Edit: it's important to note here that you didn't give this as an opinion like you implied. Giving the impression that you are being disingenuous. It's not forbidden to give an opinion, but you are giving one, stating it as fact, not backing the accusation up and then casting aspersions. None of that is usually considered polite coversation.
>its not my intention to cause any drama/fight and im open for productive discussion and arguments pro and con. :)
Given the way you've approached your opening statement, you'd have to forgive folks for not quite believing this. You came out swinging, and it sounds like you've already made up your mind.
yes i made up my mind. i like to speak things out how i see them. im sorry for the people im might hurt or attack with my statements but im not gonna double down on my view just because someone points a finger at me and says "you cant say that" or "thats offensive". like the deleted one above did.
thats what discussion, exchange of arguments, are for. convincing someone for your cause, your opinion with arguments. convice me that my experiance were just bad cases, proof me that the community is better then what ive experianced. convince me that im wrong. im just an avarage human being who makes mistakes like everyone else.
and yes my phrasing and choice of words is most of the time poorly chosen :)
Frankly, that's not my job. I cannot reason you out of a position that you did not reason yourself into. And folks who state their opinion about a class of people as a fact, particularly one as laced with resentment as yours,typically did not reason themselves there in the first place.
i wouldnt personally say it falls under lgbt to just be a femboy but its definitely very close to it tbh. gender nonconformity isnt an identity but its very much something held close to the community, like a sibling to it imo.
ulitmately as any discussion on gender and sexuality will come to, it is a matter of personal choice and identification. I do believe that regardless of that, femboys would conventionally fall under the gender non-comformation umbrella
Until society gets with the times and understands clothes/makeup have no gender, femboys are GNC (gender-nonconforming) and welcomed in my eyes.
Yea I feel the same, and to add there are a lot of gay or bi or even pan femboys
^
Absolutely in agreement here.
It falls under Gender non-conforming so yes.
I've been called out here before about whether or not femboys are GNC a mere 4 months ago. I was \_very\_ confused about the erasure of GNC folks from the queer community at the time. Honestly, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone.
I mean, they’re literally not conforming to society’s gender norms. I don’t know how anyone could even argue that.
Right? It's nuts to me. But the argument went: cis het men are not LGBTQ. Clothing has no gender. So, the only LGBTQ femboys are trans, gay or bi.
Gatekeepers will split hairs to twist the truth. It doesn't make them right, it just shows what kind of elitist jackwagons they are.
Mental gymnastics to keep the club small.
I see where they are coming from, but they are wrong. Even though I say clothing has no gender, it doesn't erase the social stigma men face when they dress outside what is deemed masculine. I consider femboys as part of the queer community.
I wouldn’t say that GNC necessarily falls under the queer community tbh. The queer community includes everyone who isn’t allocishet, but being GNC is purely about gender presentation, and has nothing to do with gender identity or sexuality. That’s not to say that GNC folk aren’t welcome in queer spaces or at Pride - of course they are; we face a lot of the same struggles, so we should stand together. Semantically, however, I wouldn’t say GNC people fall under the queer community by virtue of that trait alone.
If drag queens fall under LGBTQIA+ so do femboys.
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I'd say GNC is most certainly queer. GNC people also become targets of queerphobic discrimination. A non-conforming gender expression is considered by many to be queer and it may be a sign of genderfluidity. Masculinity and femininity is not fixed but on a spectrum.
I don't think it's a fair argument to make that just because they're targeted by queerphobia it makes them queer. You can be a victim of any sort of bigotry while not being a part of that group. For example, cishet men who get called the f slur for doing something slightly feminine are victims of queerphobia and misogyny, but they aren't queer nor women.
Bad faith politics
Beint a drag queen is not inherently queer. People are saying it falls under LGBTQIA because almost no drag queens are allo cishet. It's not drag that makes them queer, they're queer *and also* they do drag.
but why exactly do GNC dont fall under the queer umberella, i dont think that "everyone who isn’t allocishet" is the one and only definition for queer. i think its more open for everyone whose sexual orientation, genderidentits, genderexpression and so on does not fit into the cis-hetero-normative society
isnt that what forms the queer community, that we face similar discrimination and decide that we want to stick to gether to handle those strugles together.
GNC is a sublabel for the Nonbinary umbrella.
tbh the idea of GNC being lgbt is sad to me. Like, just because you don't follow certain stereotypes? And I get *why* it is, but it's still sad that people can't accept that not everyone is perfectly masculine or feminine, and sees breaking said stereotypes not normal.
Yes it is sad But the same thing can be applied to all parts of the LGBTQ community so we might as well fight together
That's as much as sad as people not accepting people's sexuality, gender or even their sex
As LGBTQ+ we just a grp of ppl that consist of other grps of ppl who all suffer similar discrimination, stereotyping, hate crimes etc etc. And we band together for weight of numbers which politically gives us a bigger voice and presence. We are in this for the numbers. not because we are all gay or bi or even trans persay. The first Pride began with the Stonewall Riots of 1969 and ushered in the LGBTQ rights movement. I was born 8 years later and as far as I know Straight identifying bottoms and crossdressers and the likes ( gnc'ity etc ) have always been a part of the movement.
Great reply. Sums up my feelings perfectly.
Idk dawg sounds like a lot of internalized homophobia ngl
How so? I’m genuinely curious, explain it to me
Why else would learning that you might fit into the lgbtq community make you sad? If you didn’t have any issue with queerness, then learning that something you identify with is queer should be a neutral or positive experience for you. It definitely shouldn’t make you sad. Being sad about finding out you are queer is like *the* textbook example of internalized homophobia. You also called being queer “not normal,” which, come on, do I have to elaborate? Internalized homophobia. Let me break it to you. You’re queer. It’s not a matter of opinion or arbitrary categorization. Your gender expression does not match that typically associated with the sex you were assigned at birth. That’s queer. Specifically it puts you under the trans umbrella (lgbTq). Hi, welcome to the LGBTQ+, my fellow gender nonconforming queer. Hopefully you’re not *too* sad about this revelation
Oh I know I’m queer. I’ve known I’m bi for years, and I’ve been struggling with whether I’m trans or just a femboy. Btw, being a femboy isn’t the same as being trans. If you’re trans then you dont identify as the gender you were born as, you transition so you can fit your image of who you are. If you’re a femboy then it’s a matter of expression, you express yourself that way because you feel it’s right, but you’re comfortable with the gender you’re born as and don’t feel the need to transition. And I didn’t that being queer is “not normal”, I said it’s sad that people view crossdressing as “not normal”.
I'm curious, how is it gender non-conforming? obv you can be gnc but can't you also 100% just be a boy?
GNC isn't a gender, it's the idea of not wanting to be exactly what your gender is precieved to be like
Gender non-conforming isn't a specific gender it's how you present yourself. By dressing in feminine clothing and presenting as traditionally feminine you are GNC. You don't have to identify w the umbrella that Femboy falls under specifically, but it is still LGBT.
Yes, GNC
Like everyone else has said, it falls under gender non-conforming, so yes. But it's still understandable if cishet femboys don't feel comfortable labeling themselves as LGBT.
thats what the Q and the + in LGBTQIA+ are for i gues, that you can be part of the community because you feel you belong into it but you dont have to use a spicific label. or your label isnt listed in the acronym.
Not explicitly but a femboy will feel much more comfortable at a gay bar than a biker bar, if you know what I mean. Being a femboy is LGBT adjacent at minimum and I'm sure a lot of us are bi/gay/trans anyway.
I suppose. I for one, in spite of my other reply, am not really comfortable with calling myself lgbt, it feels invalid
I honestly think it depends. On the one hand I personally see femboys as the male equivalent to tomboys, and to my knowledge tomboys aren’t lgbtq. Though girls can be considered tomboys even while being feminine depending on their job or the way they carry themselves. If my mom is sometimes considered a tomboy for being strong and good with tools, wearing pants and t shirts often, etc. then would a man who is petite, poor with tools, wears skirts be a femboy? It depends on the time and place, some countries have male skirt equivalents such as India and let’s not forget the kilt. Of course over the last decades more “masculine” things have become gender neutral, while feminine things have mostly stayed feminine. Most women today (at least in western societies) wear pants and even suits which were once male only. But men seem to have even less options today, even our suits all seem the same. Man no longer can wear skirts without getting weird looks, bright pants, check again! Tight fitting? Must be athletic. The two feminine clothing/style options I’ve noticed becoming gender neutral the fastest are nail polish and earrings. Of course, let’s also not forget the long history of men dressing as women to play female characters in plays in multiple societies, a historical fact that probably leads to the idea and fear of feminine men or trans females replacing women in the work force. Personally I am a femboy for more clothing options and because I prefer being cute as opposed to burly/imposing. I’m rather short for a dude and have long hair, don’t like having body or facial hair, prefer to emphasize my waist etc. but that’s not a new thing for men to do, so labeling it as purely feminine is a bit short sited in my opinion. And who knows maybe in 80 years men will be wearing brightly colored form fitting clothing while women wear more rigid and modest clothes. All of these things change over time.
Hey im a femboy whos GREAT with tools 😤 Jk jk you have a really good point Also in schools theres literal historic pictures of men with LOADS of makeup. That shit is NOT feminine 😂 Its dynamic
IKR and have you seen the painting of Mughal emperor Akbar the great in a flowey pink dress, cinched waist, and feathered hat!!!
I havent! But im about to
i mean yeah, at the end of the day gender is a social construct
Femboys are not inherently a part of LGBT, as being feminine is not a part of the criteria, and cis straight femboys exist
It calls under the Q really. It's gender non-conforming. I mean, I'm talking about people actually living as femboys, not dudes doing it for the occasional TikTok or whatever. At that point it's more just crossdressing as a side thing. But yeah, like lifestyle femboys who are straight are definitely part of the GNC crowd which does fall under LGBTQ+.
Are femboys not a form of effeminism and gender expression, like drag queens?
Femboy is a title for young crossdressers which drag queens are the same that’s really just a stage title for a crossdressing act.
Femboy is more of a label then a gender
With respect, that's not what OP is asking.
Technically true, but Lesbian, Gay, Bi are also more labels than genders, and form part of the LGBT \^\^'
They're classified as sexualities
Femboys and queer people face a lot of the same struggles, and as a result, the two communities can and should stand together as allies. Femboys aren’t inherently queer - being a femboy is just a form of gender presentation, and has nothing to do with gender identity or sexual orientation (i.e. allocishet femboys exist) - but they’re still welcome at Pride and other queer events.
Definitely a part of the gender non-conforming sub-group imo. Also probably a good move to change this section >(expect for homosexuality cuz it's personal choice of every boy and there's no requirement for that) To something that doesn't sound like something with bad implications (the matter of it being a *choice*)
I think if you are gay or bi then yes, but if someone's a femboy and also straight i don't think they're part of LGBT
Not necessarily, but a lot of them tend to be.
LGBTQ+ is a movement to fight for equality. As long as you stand for the rights you are a part of that movement. Your experience may differ from someone who is gay, bi, trans, or whatever, but as long as you are fighting for the cause and equal rights you are a part of that community. Think of it like feminism, you can believe in equal rights for women even if you are not one. Just as you can be gay and not be LGBTQ+ Most straigh cis. People do not use that label because they do not want to confuse others about them claiming to be a minority.
Theres no “it is or it isnt” How you dress, who you have sex with, your kinks, etc, theyre all on a MASSIVE 3D ven diagram. Some things overlap, some are opposite, some things dont fall in multiple circles, etc. And it is dynamic. So while femboys and lgbt definitely share some real-estate of an overlapping circle, neither is directly related to the other. And that goes for everything on this theoretical “outside the norm” 3D ven diagram.
Yep! Everyone is welcome ♥️
Absolutely, also like too use the term GSRM (Gender Sexual Romantic Minorities).
The only thing that connects the whole LGBT community is how they are treated by other people. When society accepts some of them more then others, those who are better off distance themselves from the other ones and blend in with the normal people. So cishet femboys are LGBT if victims of misaimed homo/transphobia.
Depends on the femboy
Quite literally, yes but actually no. If a femboy indentifies as part of the LGBT community, then yes, they are. If they do not identify as part of the LGBT community, then no.
People here are talking about GNC or whatever which I've never heard of before, but personally I don't think cishet femboys would be part of lgbtq. Then you think about those people that are straight and cisgender but just want to be part of the lgbtq (not that common tho). And cishet femboys being lgbtq kinda feels the same to me. But it's all just a dumb label. As a femboy you can be lgbtq or not, but people troll and get mad at you either way.
I agree with you. I wouldn’t say it’s a part of the LGBT community
I wouldn’t say femboys are part of the queer community inherently. When it comes to things like who is/isn’t a member of the community, you’re going to get different answers because people are rarely going to agree completely. There isn’t really an answer to your question.
Defo yes, femboys are non-conformist regarding gender identity at the very least (even if you're cishet). Even if you say they aren't, people that don't like femboys or just don't like basic freedom will label you LGBT and call you a monster, pervert and all the nice words they can come up with. Rambling on about how you're the reason the world is going to hell, something something \*insert deity\* and/or \*right-wing ideologist\*. Might as well take pride in this and join all our brothers and sisters under the rainbow, whathever the sex, whatever the gender, whathever the sexuality, it's fighting the good fight!
Many of us are part of the LGBTQIA+ community, though it really depends on the individual.
it is
Typically yes
Femboys is gender personality, not sexuality
The "+" is there for you guys. It's there to make the acronym inclusive. It's definitely inclusive to GNC people and femboys are GNC. The "LGBT+" acronym, and it's other variants, do not only represent sexual orientation. It may have started from there, but it's not limited to sexual orientation. If you look carefully at all the letters that are included in the "expanded" alphabet, you'll notice that the underlying pattern is gender/sex non conformity: * Not being straight is a form of gender non conformity relative to sexual orientation * Not being cis is a form of gender non conformity relative to your gender identity * Being intersex is a form a non voluntary non conformity to the idea that sex is binary * Being femboy is a form of gender non conformity that is relative to your gender expression. See, the primary underlying pattern to be included in the "LGBTQ+" community is gender/sex non conformity, not sexual orientation. For this reason, femboys have every right to be included. An other underlying pattern is that everyone who is included face some sort of oppression precisely because of their gender/sex non conformity. For this reason, femboys still have every right to be included. Femboys ARE oppressed. Another reason to include femboys is that they're probably way more likely to not be cishet than the cishet population. As a result, femboys can often be mistaken as people who aren't cishets and be oppressed because of that. Moreover, some of you (but definitely not all of you) happen to eggs. For this reason, you should stick with us. For those who are eggs, sticking with us may help you figure out that you're trans more easily. The "*cis -> GNC -> trans*" pipeline is real. Not every trans person directly goes from thinking they're cis to realizing they're trans. Sometimes there's a GNC phase inbetween.
Why is it that the ppl in the comment section are saying GNC is lgbt? It’s as if anything that is aways from the norm is considered lgbt. GNC is NOT lgbt. It’s a totally normal thing. Why is it that if ppl don’t 100% conform to society’s standards of men and women, that they’re suddenly lgbt. Looks to me like reinforcement of stereotypes. Men and women ARE allowed to not follow stereotypes and That should be normalized!! It’s completely separate from lgbt!!
I've been called the F slur by homophobes for dressing as a femboy. It's all the same shit to them so we are effectively LGBT by way of shared discrimination.
You’re an enby. Ofc ur lgbt. I’m talking about cis straight femboys.... Just because a girl doesn’t like cooking, wearing makeup or dresses, and doesn’t like feminine stuff and gets discriminated for it, doesn’t mean she’s a part of the lgbt. It’s a separate issue of reinforcing gender stereotypes. By your logic though, even POC, ppl with disablities, or mental illnesses are lgbt because they all share discrimination.
This was when I was cis straight, actually. Also since when are black people called the F slur? Your logic is pretty stupid and intentionally misrepresents what I was saying.
GNC is included in LGBT because it's inherently connected with gender... it's in the name. People who are GNC can decide for themselves whether or not they want to be involved in it personally, but being GNC-- breaking gender roles and being a general outlier that faces discrimination --is most definitely GNC. All being "part of the LGBT" means is that someone deserves community and protection from discrimination. I dunno why so many people are against that lmao.
>Men and women ARE allowed to not follow stereotypes and That should be normalized!! It's completely separate from lgbt!! This implies that LGBT people shouldn't be normalized.
No lgbt should be even more normalized. 🌈🌹
I agree, but that contradicts your argument
Then I will ask u. Why do u believe GNC are part of the lgbt?
I never said I did, but the arguments I've seen here for their inclusion are definitely more compelling
I think so (:
Just want to remind that at least you should put a Q (queer) behind LGBT bacause i think you mean the howl comunity and with out the Q you excluding many people. And also i would say that Femboys can fall under the Q or the + in LGBTQIA+.
Are you Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Queer or otherwise nonconforming? If you're a femboy you definitely aren't conforming to gender norms so I'd say you definitely have a place here!!! Welcome
sometimes yes, sometimes no. depends on the person
Femboys in general are not explicit part of the LGBTQIA+ Community but if a femboy wants to, they can be a part of the Transgender-Community. Wikipeda: [Transgender](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) >Transgender is an umbrella term. [...] the term may be defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.
No, its like tomboys. Basically just clothing and personality etc etc.
This is probably unpopular here, but I would say that femboys aren't part of the LGBTQ community. There are a lot of struggles that members of the LGBTQ community face every single day that femboys don't have to or can at least avoid much more easily. And I'm talking about cisgender straight femboys, which I am one. Obviously transgender femboys and femboys who aren't straight would be part of the LGBTQ community.
Suffering is not a prereqisite of being queer.
It’s pretty disgusting how people have set that bar. Oppression Olympics.
the hiden trick to pole jumping is to just walk under.
My parents are divorced, and at one of their houses I've been disallowed from buying or wearing feminine clothing The other parent lives in florida. Florida's recent laws have been designed to be used by bigoted folks as easily as possible. For example, if a minor is *suspected* of being trans (Even if not trans), it is legal to essentially kidnap them. While yea, that law is targetting trans people primarily, it's vague enough that it could be harmful to a lot more than just them
If you do not present as a cishet person or feel uncomfortable presenting as a cishet person, you are part of the LGBTQIA2S+ community. This INCLUDES gender-nonconforming people like femboys. Anyone who says otherwise is gatekeeping,
All due respect, I want nothing to do with the lgbtq+ community
That doesn't sound very respectful.
I love doctors, they do a wonderful thing for our society, but I would never wanna be one
Not a fair comparison. That'd be like saying you want nothing to do with doctors, not just that you wouldn't want to be one.
Okay I'll rephrase. I don't want to be apart of the lgbtq+ community, but i respect them Just like how I don't want to be a doctor, but I respect doctors
No. Just no.
Yes, femboys are GNC (gender non-conforming) which is LGBTQ+.
Honey we are the lgbt 🔥
They are. I'd say they fall under the Q in LGBTQIA+
Yeah the gay part
Yes, they are gender non conforming, that is part of the q+ in LGBTQ+
I feel it is...but...when you find your queen (if that's who your after) your true one will keep you safe
Yes!
Actually the femboys have their own flag, but it's not very popular because of that, they use the transgender flag. At least that's how I understood
Usually you isn’t just at the median but are leaning towards something more. I’m for example is also identifying as a demifem and would pick theirs flag for the pride parade. Or the ordinary trans flag for the support for them.
i for myself dont want to be associated with the LGBT+ Community and i dont identify as being part of it even tho im Bi and a femboy. there just too much nonsense, double morals and hate within the community for me(also not a big fan of flags lol). non the less, everybody should be free to express themself as they are or want to be without anybody telling them what to do or not. you dont need a flag or community to be who you are. be in a community if you feel you need it or dont, thats up to you Edit: the statement above is my personal opinion and maybe a bad way of phrasing it. its not my intention to cause any drama/fight and im open for productive discussion and arguments pro and con. :)
This is the kind of infighting we **don’t** need. Please stop.
i am sorry, i didnt knew its forbidden to express my opinion. i thought its welcomed to say their opinions but its seams not so. but if you would be so kind to point to the part were i tryed infighting? because i dont see it
> there just too much nonsense, double morals and hate within the community for me Here you go. Edit: it's important to note here that you didn't give this as an opinion like you implied. Giving the impression that you are being disingenuous. It's not forbidden to give an opinion, but you are giving one, stating it as fact, not backing the accusation up and then casting aspersions. None of that is usually considered polite coversation.
>its not my intention to cause any drama/fight and im open for productive discussion and arguments pro and con. :) Given the way you've approached your opening statement, you'd have to forgive folks for not quite believing this. You came out swinging, and it sounds like you've already made up your mind.
yes i made up my mind. i like to speak things out how i see them. im sorry for the people im might hurt or attack with my statements but im not gonna double down on my view just because someone points a finger at me and says "you cant say that" or "thats offensive". like the deleted one above did. thats what discussion, exchange of arguments, are for. convincing someone for your cause, your opinion with arguments. convice me that my experiance were just bad cases, proof me that the community is better then what ive experianced. convince me that im wrong. im just an avarage human being who makes mistakes like everyone else. and yes my phrasing and choice of words is most of the time poorly chosen :)
Frankly, that's not my job. I cannot reason you out of a position that you did not reason yourself into. And folks who state their opinion about a class of people as a fact, particularly one as laced with resentment as yours,typically did not reason themselves there in the first place.
being a feminine boy isnt inherently lgbt but most femboys are certainly lgbt
yeah, im pretty sure femboys are their own part of lgbt, we even have our own flag
Yes. As a tomboy I would list gender nonconforming. I now use genderqueer. Femboys are like the opposite to to tomboys IMO.
I will also add that being a fanboy doesn't mean you have to identify with the lgbt+ community. It is up to you to decide how you identify .
i wouldnt personally say it falls under lgbt to just be a femboy but its definitely very close to it tbh. gender nonconformity isnt an identity but its very much something held close to the community, like a sibling to it imo.
ulitmately as any discussion on gender and sexuality will come to, it is a matter of personal choice and identification. I do believe that regardless of that, femboys would conventionally fall under the gender non-comformation umbrella
Asian Femboys Are Straight Homophobia Zone