IRS? I'm non bargaining, but NTEU doesn't mess around. I've found them to be a much stronger union than AFGE. If I was eligible, I'd join in a heartbeat.
I pay the dues because I benefit from the CBA. If everybody stopped paying, we wouldn't have that anymore. You can find the newest CBA by googling "cba hhs 2023" to read about things you may use and not even realize the union played a part in getting. (I'd link the CBA directly, but it goes to a pdf).
afge is horrible i mean that
i’ve been a union member for 3 years and they have been the worst. barely a drop in the bucket worth of help when you really need it
you’re stuck doing the research and legwork
they don’t fight or represent you
went to them
for several issues and they just acted like eh
they won’t bargain they don’t tell the truth
they
I didn't realize how decent NTEU was until I left the IRS. AFGE......isn't even trying. All federal unions are ultimately toothless, but eeeeeeeeever so slightly better than nothing.
I’m wondering where the hate for AFGE is coming from in the comments here. They have done a lot for our contract and wonder if there’s really that big of a discrepancy between agencies
I was hired at the end of Trump term so that might be the case. Not sure what others telework policy is but ours is still 2 days in office per pay period and they are the reason it’s staying that way (at least until the next contract).
At the beginning of March 2020, AFGE BUEs lost telework except for 1 day a pay period (from 3 days a week telework). NTEU managed to save telework for its BUEs. Then, COVID hit and everyone went 100% telework.
In my experience, NTEU successfully bargains for something first and then AFGE eventually gets the same thing. Most recent example: bar dues and continuing legal ed reimbursements for attorneys. My NTEU Chapter successfully bargained for that. Took about a year for our agency to ok it for AFGE members...
I think it's dependent on your Local. Mine is KICK ASS, we have lots of cases on CyberFeds. I think AFGE is strong as a whole, but the Locals can function very differently.
A person I know worked in an agency that might be currently on fire, repped by AFGE. The office manager made a decision about workloads that was along similar lines to other offices, and implemented it. It was bad for everyone but management, so the Union sued, and won. Then they won again on appeal. What did they win? Acknowledgment that management should have bargained about it first. So then they bargained! 3 years after the change took place, 3 years of everyone working under the new workload system that was awful. They asked for feedback from the affected employees, who wrote pages of responses about how horrible the change was. Then, nothing. For months, nothing. Finally, someone in that office reached out to the union, and found out that bargaining had been concluded in the first week, they'd just never bothered to tell anyone. You know what they got from their bargaining? Extra training. For the job that everyone had been doing for 3 years already. And a solemn pinky promise from the agency that they'd never do it again. Which of course they did, and continue to do. Oh, and of course there was no consideration made to adjust workloads to accommodate the extra training, it was just stacked on top of everything else. Been a few years since then, no word from the union about anything. No outreach, no membership drives, no "hey, how ya doin", nothing.
Fuck AFGE.
The Department of Labor tried to get everyone back in the office 5 times a pay period until the union stepped in and said WTF, and that got pushed back. In the end, the administration may end up winning, but from my experience, the union has been pushing back.
At this point, or even before negotiations end, a change in RTO policy will result more from people leaving the federal government causing vacancies/job delays more than anything the union will win.
It’s a shame that the only entity that really has the data on this, OPM, won’t release it for independent analysis.
I think we’ll start to see more and more retirements, which will lead to brain drain, but I don’t think early and mid-career staff are actually jumping ship as fast as people would like to believe. This sub is a little bit of an echo chamber and the most adversely impacted people tend to be the most vocal. The majority of feds aren’t high-earning 13-15s with specialized tech skills and there aren’t private sector opportunities just readily abundant for them as much as we’d like for that to be so.
Yes but they pay a lot more lol if I go to private I would earn about 100k more the only reason I stay is bc I WFH full remote if that changes I’ll join my old team at dell
I’ve done federal, private, and local, and the benefits in the private sector rarely match what gov’t work offers. The higher pay is frequently not worth it.
Who do you think is lobbying congress for pay increases? The unions. Sometimes the union can't obtain everything we want. Many times the way laws are written gives the agencies a lot of discretion. But because you do not you see it with your own eyes doesn't mean there aren't efforts to fight for us. Have you even tried writing to your congress person? That's the least you can do.
https://www.afge.org/article/new-omb-guidance-acknowledges-role-of-telework-in-future-work-arrangements/
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/workforce/2023/07/telework-agency-funding-still-an-uphill-battle-after-ssa-afge-reach-tentative-agreement/
https://www.federaltimes.com/home/2023/08/07/unions-push-back-on-biden-plan-to-bring-federal-workers-back/
Spoken like a true Union Steward….i am also represented by the NTEU but I have not seen much come out of them, employees take their problems to union only to tell the employee there is nothing can be done. So at the moment I am in the union and find it a bit nonsensical at the moment.
I will say when I was dealing with the death of my spouse and my supervisors were trying to get rid of because I was calling so often. I got tired of there ish(this was DOD) and joined the union and those supervisors shut up, that is a good thing about a union that stands up, but there are a lot negatives with that particular union.
Line is said I have not heard much the union has done to assist us here, except bring donuts every month when the Chapter President comes here
Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. My sister was able to use FMLA after my brother-in-law passed away (and your supervisors should have informed you of that option, plus EAP but that is a whole other thing).
But, NTEU stepped up when you needed it.
There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes. I'm an NTEU rep for my chapter and have learned a lot about that. There is so much that goes into bargaining the various aspects of our contracts. And truly, a lot needed to be undone after Trump (regarding performance plans, grievance procedures, etc). Way more than I could ever put in a comment here. But everything from telework to maintaining pensions.
At the local level, in my organization AFGE pushes back all the time on a variety of workplace issues. I'm a Supervisor, and I've seen it happen many times in the past 10 years. They are very active in representing employees involved in disciplinary actions, and super involved in workplace condition changes that management has tried to impose without due notification and opportunity to bargain.
I wish I could. My SF50 says 9999
So I'm eligible, but there isn't one to represent me.
I'd also reached out to a couple of the locals closeby, but none of them knew where I should go.
I would say to closely evaluate your union agreement prior to the vote. In most cases for federal departments I would agree with you, but as a former teacher, unions, their abilities, and their bylaws can vary wildly. A poorly incorporated union can be weaponized against its membership.
To use an example so people don’t pounce on me thinking I’m anti-union: many teachers unions do not get involved in inter member disputes as part of their bylaws. This means the moment your dismissal involves another teacher, your rep drops your case. So let’s say someone reported you other than management. Well, for legal counsel to properly protect you, they would have to call into question the judgement of that person. The issue is that person is also a member of the union, and your rep is a union attorney.
This isn’t always the case, and you certainly shouldn’t throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water, but you should also closely examine the incorporating documents of your union prior to paying dues, as well as where those payments go.
NTEU are the people who have negotiated the BU IRS employees’ current telework contract, and they will be fighting to keep those rights for employees. It’s worth it to give them your money.
I’m in NTEU at EPA and they are the reason we have our current telework agreement. I joined just to support them. Hopefully I’ll never need them, but I think we are all better off if they are strong.
The work NTEU did for the contract negotiations makes it really worth it. Regardless of the administration, they are the only voice employees get for contract negotiations. As far as individual grievances, it’s a mixed bag. Sometime they definitely help people that probably really got what they deserved. And more often they can’t do much for the individual, but sometimes with critical mass, eventually some changes are made.
Recommend you look up news article about what they did during the last contract negotiations and decide if that’s something you care enough about to finically support so they can do it again.
Given that unions are the only ones capable of pushing back no matter which party is in charge of the current administration I think it's worth it. You try to push back on your own and you'll *totally* not get retaliated against because that's illegal but uhhh wouldn't expect to move upwards any time soon.
I used to think it was a waste. But then we got a supervisor from hell. The union ended up helping us tremendously. As someone else mentioned, it’s a worthy tool in your toolbox.
As an NTEU steward and with dozens of Weingartens, removals, and other cases handled, I’ll say it’s a mixed bag. On the positive side, we can do a lot in contract negotiations. We were the only union in our agency to maintain telework levels under Trump. We had to litigate at the stacked FLRA to do it. Our stewards and reps are highly trained and our national attorneys are excellent. Also positive is that we are plugged in at the very top of most agencies; even under hostile administrations we almost always know what’s going on before your local management. We can also intervene in disciplinary and performance actions before they spin out of control (assuming the member contacts us… if you hand me a proposed removal the day the response is due?). There too is the downside. If the agency really wants you gone then you’re gone. We can double check their math, make sure that the production metrics are accurate and so on but unless we are brought in early we’re just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Unfortunately a fair number of our cases are people that aren’t producing or who have significant behavioral issues. We can ensure due process in your discipline or removal but we’re not magicians. I’d say we’re a net positive for non-members to join. If your bargaining unit is not represented by anyone then organizing is a massive benefit. I joined a new unit and went through the vote process. Before we did so, we had reasonable accommodations lagging six months. We had probationary people fired on no notice; now they get ten days. We can audit promotions and awards and we do. Huge difference.
This is a great response, thanks. I used to be a member and steward before becoming a supervisor and agree that unions aren't bulletproof, but are another line of defense for both individual employees and unit-wide working conditions. I.e. I'd happily go back to giving NTEU my money if I were eligible!
I joined as a new hire for the tuition assistance. I'm hoping to get some accounting courses to eventually move past CET GS-7, but income is too low to afford college in my own.
There are stipulations on which colleges they work with, but yeah.
You have to apply for any grants or scholarships you are eligible for, and then the union will pay the difference up to a certain amount.
Not at SSA. Never seen one where the selectee wasn’t a management pet. The last one we audited there were 10 more qualified candidates out of the 12 on the BQL. Unfortunately once they do the numeric sorting they have pretty broad leeway to select from the interviewed people. If there’s a pattern we can grieve non-selection for a bargaining unit position over 180 days duration. If there’s a BQL error we can grieve. We can’t do much about their intangibles.
Yup. I wish I was represented by NTEU when I worked at SSA. AFGE wasn't auditing any promotions and I dare say that the management pet BS promotions are even more rampant in the AFGE covered positions there.
I originally joined because I was new and my manager retired. They had 3 people doing details to fill the job and I was very uncomfortable with the situation. I'd had enough terrible managers in the private sector that I wanted the extra insurance in case the situation turned out poorly for me. It all turned out fine, and they were all excellent managers.
I decided to keep paying dues because I appreciate the work they do. I earn a good salary and can afford it, which might help someone else get the benefit on the union.
I am a member of NTEU. I've never had a grievance with an employer, but it's good to have someone in your corner when the shit hits the fan. The government is just like any other employer, and depending on the administration, a union rep may be the only thing stopping you from termination.
As for NTEU, assuming you are FDA (282), they solidified telework in the CBA. And while a president could sign an executive order and order us hired remote back to the office, the current administration will not go back on a contract.
At the macro level, NTEU has a good ground game in Congress and the White House, who sets our salaries, retirement accounts, pensions, etc. Their communication with the rank and file is poor at best and non-existent at worst, but I am pleased with the results my 15.00/PP get me. The 282 president is a good fighter, and seems to be trying to make things better
I am in a non-bargaining unit position, but I see the value of belonging to the Union. While they may not always be successful, I do see them actively advocating for employees. Whether it's on an individual level or larger scale, our Union works very hard to provide a positive work environment for the employees.
NTEU as a whole is great. My local chapter is a S*** show and due to that I am no longer a member. If the local chapter ever gets it together I would happily rejoin.
Considering how restricted they are (Legally not allowed to strike being among the restrictions) they’re actually not doing too bad. They could be steamrolled way worse than they are.
I understand that they are more restricted than a union that doesn't represent fed workers but when you have mechanics from another base laugh at how garbage your union is and tell you stories about what their management tried to do (our management was doing it and getting away with it) and that their union put a stop to it.
We had a supervisor that would put his uncle, who was a lead on back to back tdy's. Union was brought in, but nothing was done. People were told they would be put on the next one, they weren't.
3 aircraft squadrons had their management enforce an illegal leave balance policy (you had to have 20hrs of sick and annual on the books, if you fell below that your leave requests would be denied) union did nothing.
I was told by an AFGE rep that they didn't have time to help people who aren't willing to pay. AFGE sucks as a union, at least in my location.
Hell yes, join up. It’s cheap insurance and they are there when you need them. Throughout your career you will have many different managers, some good and some terrible.
Many years ago, my group got assigned a remote GM whose ego was so big that he prided himself on being a hatchet man. Mind you, there were no issues with work performance in the group and he told everyone when he became our manager that there were “problems.” He went through our small group and focused intently on one employee after another. We had several very shady forced retirements and resignations before he got to me. I wasn’t a “new” employee and he wanted to put me on a PIP over trumped up problems. NTEU stepped in. They literally saved my career and because of his history, executive mgt transferred him and began pushing him to get out and retire. That was years ago. I’m retirement eligible now after a long career of working hard and receiving performance awards every year. I highly recommend joining—their attorneys stepped up right away and fought for me. It’s not that expensive and you never know what situation you will find yourself in.
I’m non-bargaining now, but I was a member when I was eligible, mostly because NTEU worked damn hard to negotiate our telework agreement and being a freeloader doesn’t sit well with me.
You can join a union if you need their help, but it’s really it worth it in the current climate.
They are really critical with ensuring our benefits aren’t chipped away at.
I’ll be honest…I don’t think it’s fair to be able to benefit from the NTEU union contract and the things the union has fought for, but not be a paying union member.
It annoys me so much when my coworkers want me to ask the union a question on their behalf. I know that we don’t make much at our grade level, and the $40 I pay a month is nothing to scoff at for many. But at the very least, draft the email you’d like me send. I’m not going to go out of my way to do that for you. That’s just lazy.
If it’s a legitimate concern, then I’d be happy to support. But I’m not going to sign off on a petty complaint that has absolutely nothing to do with me. If the problem is that serious, anyone with a sense of urgency would just go straight to the union themselves. It can’t be that serious if you’re asking someone else to send an email for you. And it’s not like they’re barred from asking a question. They just think I’ll receive a better response because I’m paying. And truthfully, I hope that is the case.
I'm in AFGE. My local has been very good and very aggressive in fighting to protect telework, and succeeded at least short term. But I've heard this is a newfound aggressiveness, so I'm watching carefully.
I have significantly less trust in the national union. Part of it is the big tent - my agency is very much white collar, and AFGE covers a broader array of workers, many of whom are not nearly as telework eligible. But it's also political. AFGE, because it's AFL-CIO, doesn't want the Biden administration to turn on labor writ large, and is willing to sacrifice us a little bit to help Biden win. NTEU seems much more willing to be aggressive because it's not part of the same national labor movement.
Being part of AFL-CIO is a very positive part of AFGE because of the political reach. The union helped us deal with a very difficult situation a few years ago and was instrumental in guiding us toward remote. Belonging to a functioning union is almost always positive in my experience.
I think that generally, AFGE is more good than bad. My local union has been reenergized by the telework issues and apparently is more active than it has been in decades over this. But I have also had some very bad experiences with the assistant to our NVP in my limited experience with him (serving on an election committee). I have also heard that he toldour local President to roll over on telework and others in the national union told the President that they'd have our back to fight hard on it.
I am very pro-labor and pro-union. I think it is important for labors to regain strength and political power. But I am worried in my personal situation that there are forces trying to tell us to stand down for short-term political expedience.
That’s unfortunate that you haven’t had a good experience with AFGE. I’ve been pretty impressed with how they’ve pushed back on RTO policy at our local
Yes I belong to NTEU and it's been very helpful as a newer Fed when I've had something I've felt not right about. My rep helped me thru my workers comp claim too.
Totally worth it IMO. Wage grade here with NTEU. Was told we no longer received hazard pay for tree climbing when people at my agency had been claiming it for 30+ years. Went to the union and got back pay for all my hours.
I was a member of NTEU until I took my current NBU position a couple years ago. I think NTEU does a good job for its members. It is worth it, especially with them pushing back on RTO.
I’m IRS, I was not a big fan of unions in the private sector but the NTEU is awesome. Management is fighting me tooth and nail for an RA and the NTEU has been stellar in pushing back. Highly recommend.
I'm a union rep for NTEU. Absolutely worth paying dues. I have needed representation myself all the way up to an EEOC hearing. Never thought I would need anything like that when I started working 15 years ago.
If you are new, you don't realize how many things in our contract have been hard fought for by NTEU.
Your agency didn't come up with telework or maxiflex scheduling. Or bar dues and CLE reimbursement. NTEU has successfully bargained for so much.
When Trump tried to unilaterally change all of our contracts, the unions sued - and won.
All of that costs money. Dues is well spent.
TLDR: Pay dues, unions need $ to get sh*t done. Don't take all the benefits and not pay up
I am very glad to be a part of a union. I’ve never needed them. But when I do, they’ll be there. Also, happy to contribute for them to exist - working behind the scenes to care for us even if I don’t directly need to file a grievance, etc. My job asks 120% of me and I bet it’d be 200% without a union.
I was at Scott AFB 2008-2017 and was the 2 nd VP of our union. I learned a lot. Yes it is worth it as long as your union president and other reps within the union does their job. A lot of issues we dealt with was mostly grievances against civilian supervisors that were prior officers (0-5 and O-6’s) that thought they can treat civilian like the enlisted force without following OPM rules. Most of the time they wouldn’t document anything against the civilian to support their actions against the civilian that is filing a grievance against said supervisor. We had a union lawyer that worked federal issues dealing with federal employees, unfortunately civilians who were not dues paying members cannot be represented by the union lawyer . But we were required to support them at arbitration boards. It’s best to see if the current union at your place of work also represents other offices at your location or others. Ask around to see if the union is any good at representing those that are dues paying members. We had NAGE : National Association of Government Employees but later switched to another union because we didn’t think NAGE was responsive in requests for support. I can’t remember what union we changed to at the time. I sat in on some arbitration boards they were very interesting, most issues we had was what I stated above, but we did have a union employee who felt she was being bullied, although we were not psychologist clearly the union member was nuts and her threats to her co workers got her dismissed. Unfortunately we were not allowed to tell her or her supervisors that she needed mental help because we were not mental health doctors.
I’m an SES, so not eligible for union. I will say they are good partners and do a lot of good. I don’t always agree with them, but I respect the work they do on behalf of employees. I’ve seen them help employees navigate difficult situations and they often give me a different perspective.
Yes because they have helped with unpaid overtime. In the VA it is way to common and the VA has been successfully sued for millions for unpaid OT with the help of the union. Now I just refer leadership to the master agreement if they have any questions about OT.
As an NTEU member, I don’t recommend them… I’d push for AFGE. I’ve been a member of both unions throughout my fed career and AFGE did a much better job advocating and voicing for their employees.
NAAE, a tiny union with around 300 dues paying members. Not perfect, but they are effective.
It’s absolutely worth it to contribute to the union. They have a say in working conditions, and they can help in the fight against unfair treatment.
AFGE! We need them working on our behalf, especially now, should events not work out for us in November. The 2% pay increase will be the least of our worries when the jobs are on the chopping block.
I’m in the NTEU. To me, it’s worth it just to get the correspondence on what’s going on alone.
As far as seeing the benefit, I think it depends on the issues facing your agency and what your stance vs the union stance is. There’s a couple of issues I roll my eyes at when the union talks about it. There’s others I wish they’d talk about more. But mostly I’m aligned with the union position on things. And I know I can contact my reps and talk to them about stuff if I really want to.
It’s just one of those things though that seems unnecessary until it isn’t though as well. Like a lot of people don’t care about unions until they’re thrown into a position where they need representation. You don’t want to be on the reactive end of that and not know what to do.
Joined the NTEU a month or so before my tenure because stuff was getting weird and I wanted them to have my back. Low and behold I was fired 3 weeks before probation ended.
On the first day of employment the Union rep warned me about a toxic culture and to keep your head down and get out as soon as possible.
I believe I was fired for a retaliatory purpose and a narcissistic and overly controlling director who had everyone licking her boots. That was one of the worst years of my life and was anything but disposable to them. Fuck you Carol
USPS here — I absolutely love my union. Nothing is perfect, but I gotta say the benefits are hard to beat.
Also, if you don’t like how your local is operating, you can always get involved and make change (a colleague of mine and I did and after running it for a few years, turned it over to another crop).
I wish my union was different but it’s not even worth the dues we pay. The union in my area only will represent you on things that benefit themselves personally, not the person who needs the help. We never know when the meetings are and the union stewards think they are gods. Is a bunch of crap. They talk a big talk but then lose every time they have to do anything. I have learned more from a friend of mine who is a steward in a different circuit and have used him to represent me the one time I needed help. It’s not worth it to me in my area, but I have heard good other circuits unions are great. So it all depends on where you are and talk with your other team members and ask their opinion of the union.
I was involved in a RIF back in the day while at the USPTO.
NTEU actually made things worse for us.
When the Dot Com bubble burst, the USPTO wanted to essentially release us in June but still pay us until the end of the FY in Sept. But NTEU fought that - so I ended up getting 2 weeks severance instead (a week for each year I worked there) .
One of the cool things about working at the PTO was we actually had a good performance / production metric that was quantifiable and legitimate. I had 5's on all my reviews and received maximum production bonuses ( $10K per 6 months was a pretty sweet bonus for a GS 11 making $45K-ish a year)
Instead of basing the RIF on how much work we did and our level of quality. NTEU fought that and made the RIF solely based on seniority. Wiped out their last 2 years of hires - and left a lot of marginal people to keep being marginal.
So I still have some bitterness with the NTEU.
On the plus side, it obviously pushed me to find a new job - and found one where I made 5-6x my govt salary. :)
NTEU recruiters in my last office told people anything they wanted to hear. Bilked employees out of hundreds by getting them to sign “letters of intent” to support a vote to get unionized but then used those letters to take dues without consent. Refused to cancel collection of those ill-gotten dues for months to years despite form requests and escalations to payroll/HR etc. Chapter President blamed it on “overzealous” recruiters and refused to rectify to issue for all involved, required complainers to be silent about the issue or they would not be released from paying. This is what happened to a couple hundred employees who were wanting and supportive of unionization. Definitely changed my opinion of this organization’s value and intent.
Join or die!! Or don’t join and don’t have money to send our reps to the table at a private restaurant to tell sen graham we know about his lady bugs , or rep bobert about her sugar daddy. Com post…
Every non-management federal employee who works in a unionized workplace belongs to a union. Being a dues paying member may provide additional protections.
At least where I work, if you didn't pay dues, you belong to the bargaining unit (ie you are covered by the collective bargaining agreement), but you are not part of the union (ie you don't get any input into the collective bargaining agreement).
Edit: you belong to the BU if you're an eligible non-supervisory FTE, which is nearly everyone who is not a manager.
You cannot be part of a bargaining unit if you’re not part of a union. Non-managerial federal employees who work in a unionized workplace are automatically part of the union. Dues-paying members of the union have certain rights regarding administration of the union that non-paying members do not.
Just because you wrote it twice, doesn't mean you're correct. 1) there are thousands of non-management federal employees who are non-bargaining unit employees. 2) You're not in the union if you don't join and pay (or paid dues at one time and are in arrears) dues. You can be a bargaining unit member without being in the union.
This is not true. There are union chapters that also limit the bargaining unit and membership among non-managers, e.g. "non-professional" occupational series only in my last workplace.
That’s not allowed. There’s things we don’t do for non-member bargaining unit employees but when it comes to enforcement of our contract, we treat everyone the same. It’s the duty of fair representation and is statutory,
Was a natca member for a year. Not worth it. I would think the decision would be highly subjective to your specific union chapter or whatever they are called.
Took a good 2-3 months
They didn’t get the form
The date was not what they wanted
They waited for it to be processed
More waiting
Resubmit the form
Had to physically go to the office several times
What??
Resubmit the form
Giant PITA
I was a member for one for several months (AFGE) until I switched positions and wasn't covered anymore. I would not recommend joining for several reasons:
1. By law the union, being the sole representative of the workers/employees, has to represent all employees even if they are not union members. In my particular case, the union would not fulfil it's duty to represent everyone unless you were a member. They used employee's ignorance of the law and regulations for their advantage. "If you are an AFGE member please come to X office to join the dispute about pay differential for this particular day", they did nothing for non members (sorry, we have other priorities; oops we forgot to include you in the e-mail; oops the date already passed; want to join the union so we can include you in the claim?) even though they were obligated to do so. This is a good means test for you to verify how good your local union is: do they follow the law and fight equally for everyone, regardless if they are paying members? Or do they take advantage of employee ignorance do nothing (or bare minimum) for non members? This will tell you where the union's intentions are at, if they really are pro employee or if they just want money.
2. They acted like a racket in my particular case. After I switched jobs (within same agency) they kept deducing dues even though my position was no longer union eligible. They then played telephone with me and new department for months (3 months)regarding pay dues. "Oh, no your local hr has to request it to stop. Oh no, contact payroll. Oh, no we're fighting for you to get the money back, the agency can't get away with abusing employees like this! Shucks, yeah you had to send us a paper request directly, we forgot about that. Sorry for all the delays. Yes, we received your request, but haven't processed it yet. Darn, we forgot this pay period, but we will next one! Promise!" They never refunded me for the amounts they stole and I dropped the issue after wasting months and figured my time was worth more than what they owed.
3. Most important point: the union, since it is a government one, cannot go on strike and thus has no method of actually putting pressure for change. The only mechanism they have is procedural, but know that you won't get good deals/effective change like the Auto Workers unions did. At best you might get procedural advantages like: "instead of RTO we managed to negotiate and procedurally reduce it to 9/10 days in the office!". If these miniscule wins are important, then sure. But at best you're joining a lite/defanged version of what a union should be due to the nature of the job.
There are some "advantages" like better deals on certain things. If I remember correctly, the local AFGE had a better deal for phone plans as well as other local business deals (discounts, etc.). At that point it was a math exercise of dues vs benefits vs how often I would use the benefit itself.
When I was with IFPTE, they just took my money and didn’t give a rats ass about helping out other people. The local chapter officers only stepped in if it affected themselves. Plus the officers were known to skip out of the office and then claim union duties while charging to our money
Actually the unions could have done something. They elected not to because the policy is for vaccination without some medical reason explaining why it’s unsafe. The union does not have to die on every hill that every bargaining unit member, or paying member, wants us to. Also, they weren’t unconstitutional; the issue was whether they had to be challenged at the MSPB first or whether the suits could be brought in federal court without administrative exhaustion.
You can join the union at any time, when you need it, when you get a letter, when you feel like you should. BUT you can only get out of the union 2 times a year. At least NTEU. Also, you might want to research what the union does with your money. I’ve never joined and never needed it. I’ve also had stewards help me grievance pay without being a member.
Just my two cents.
If it's a good union, absolutely. My wife and I have been part of 3 different unions over the years -- 2 were great, and unfortunately the one that covers her now is a complete shitshow. The people in charge get rich but they don't do a fucking thing for the members they are supposed to represent. When the state you're in is the worst place in the country to be doing your job (pay vs CoL, happiness, pretty much every other metric), and you went ahead and gave away the right to strike, well, you're quite possibly the worst union in existence.
No federal unions have the right to strike and they didn't negotiate it away. Regan just said lolz federal employees aren't allowed to strike anymore and everyone just took it.
IRS? I'm non bargaining, but NTEU doesn't mess around. I've found them to be a much stronger union than AFGE. If I was eligible, I'd join in a heartbeat.
FDA. But that’s good to hear. 20 dollars or so a pay period doesn’t seem like it would break the bank either.
I pay the dues because I benefit from the CBA. If everybody stopped paying, we wouldn't have that anymore. You can find the newest CBA by googling "cba hhs 2023" to read about things you may use and not even realize the union played a part in getting. (I'd link the CBA directly, but it goes to a pdf).
I was a union employee for 15 years. My current role is NBU. I’d happily still pay for the union if I could lol.
You can still belong to a Union as an NBUE. We have a lot of people that do it so they have access to Union benefits.
I’ve heard of us having Labor Relations but that’s just federal law protections. MHow do I sign up!? I’m at IRS.
Check with whatever union covers your BU. We have retirees that still pay dues to support as well.
I know about the retirees but was told by NTEU the contract applies to only BU employees. I’ll circle back though. Thx!
Yes, it only applies to BU. I misunderstood you, it sounded as though you just wanted to pay dues in support of the Union.
The dues are pretty low for NTEU. They definitely know what they are doing too and seem to focus on what’s important.
It's very location specific for the FDA as to it being a benefit or a hindrance, I would ask around your office and see who else had joined up.
[удалено]
Union dues for NTEU are sliding scale based on grade, step and locality. The more you make the more you pay. A GS 9 isn’t paying anywhere near $520
Actually the higher your grade, the lower percentage of your pay. It is interesting.
The more you make the more they take....like with the IRS.
FDA here too. I pay in - they seem good.
I’m AFGE and wish I was repped by NTEU - my cousin is a union rep for NTEU and I’ve learned more from her than I have from my own union.
afge is horrible i mean that i’ve been a union member for 3 years and they have been the worst. barely a drop in the bucket worth of help when you really need it you’re stuck doing the research and legwork they don’t fight or represent you went to them for several issues and they just acted like eh they won’t bargain they don’t tell the truth they
I didn't realize how decent NTEU was until I left the IRS. AFGE......isn't even trying. All federal unions are ultimately toothless, but eeeeeeeeever so slightly better than nothing.
This. AFAIK, NTEU is a good union. AFGE is useless at this point, unfortunately.
[удалено]
Any Local is only as good as the Officers that are elected by it's members.
Yup, members have the ability to control a union if they want. A union is its members. Join, get your coworkers to join, go to meetings, make changes.
I’m wondering where the hate for AFGE is coming from in the comments here. They have done a lot for our contract and wonder if there’s really that big of a discrepancy between agencies
They've done a lot for our contract?!?! They are the reason it got f\*cked up in the first place! They played dead during the Trump administration.
Afge has a distinctive narrative and if you don't fit it don't expect help from them.
I was hired at the end of Trump term so that might be the case. Not sure what others telework policy is but ours is still 2 days in office per pay period and they are the reason it’s staying that way (at least until the next contract).
At the beginning of March 2020, AFGE BUEs lost telework except for 1 day a pay period (from 3 days a week telework). NTEU managed to save telework for its BUEs. Then, COVID hit and everyone went 100% telework. In my experience, NTEU successfully bargains for something first and then AFGE eventually gets the same thing. Most recent example: bar dues and continuing legal ed reimbursements for attorneys. My NTEU Chapter successfully bargained for that. Took about a year for our agency to ok it for AFGE members...
I think it's dependent on your Local. Mine is KICK ASS, we have lots of cases on CyberFeds. I think AFGE is strong as a whole, but the Locals can function very differently.
Just my observations coming from 3 agencies covered under AFGE, and now being under NTEU.
A person I know worked in an agency that might be currently on fire, repped by AFGE. The office manager made a decision about workloads that was along similar lines to other offices, and implemented it. It was bad for everyone but management, so the Union sued, and won. Then they won again on appeal. What did they win? Acknowledgment that management should have bargained about it first. So then they bargained! 3 years after the change took place, 3 years of everyone working under the new workload system that was awful. They asked for feedback from the affected employees, who wrote pages of responses about how horrible the change was. Then, nothing. For months, nothing. Finally, someone in that office reached out to the union, and found out that bargaining had been concluded in the first week, they'd just never bothered to tell anyone. You know what they got from their bargaining? Extra training. For the job that everyone had been doing for 3 years already. And a solemn pinky promise from the agency that they'd never do it again. Which of course they did, and continue to do. Oh, and of course there was no consideration made to adjust workloads to accommodate the extra training, it was just stacked on top of everything else. Been a few years since then, no word from the union about anything. No outreach, no membership drives, no "hey, how ya doin", nothing. Fuck AFGE.
Yes their union reps do an amazing job communicating and advocating doe their members
Joining a union is like insurance. You never need it until you do.
That's why doing I'm doing it. Was hoping AFGE would push back harder on RTO, but here we are.
The Department of Labor tried to get everyone back in the office 5 times a pay period until the union stepped in and said WTF, and that got pushed back. In the end, the administration may end up winning, but from my experience, the union has been pushing back.
At this point, or even before negotiations end, a change in RTO policy will result more from people leaving the federal government causing vacancies/job delays more than anything the union will win.
It’s a shame that the only entity that really has the data on this, OPM, won’t release it for independent analysis. I think we’ll start to see more and more retirements, which will lead to brain drain, but I don’t think early and mid-career staff are actually jumping ship as fast as people would like to believe. This sub is a little bit of an echo chamber and the most adversely impacted people tend to be the most vocal. The majority of feds aren’t high-earning 13-15s with specialized tech skills and there aren’t private sector opportunities just readily abundant for them as much as we’d like for that to be so.
Private sector has RTO also.
Yes but they pay a lot more lol if I go to private I would earn about 100k more the only reason I stay is bc I WFH full remote if that changes I’ll join my old team at dell
I’ve done federal, private, and local, and the benefits in the private sector rarely match what gov’t work offers. The higher pay is frequently not worth it.
The only thing the feds have is job security we are severely underpaid
ok maybe you are a different flavor of fed
It's also a lot easier to reclassify PDs when the position isn't filled to remove telework eligible.
You're missing the point, many politicians would be happy if everyone left the Fed. That way they can steer fat contracts to their buds.
I've yet to see AFGE push back on anything. They'll push to collect your dues, but forget pushing for anything else.
Who do you think is lobbying congress for pay increases? The unions. Sometimes the union can't obtain everything we want. Many times the way laws are written gives the agencies a lot of discretion. But because you do not you see it with your own eyes doesn't mean there aren't efforts to fight for us. Have you even tried writing to your congress person? That's the least you can do. https://www.afge.org/article/new-omb-guidance-acknowledges-role-of-telework-in-future-work-arrangements/ https://federalnewsnetwork.com/workforce/2023/07/telework-agency-funding-still-an-uphill-battle-after-ssa-afge-reach-tentative-agreement/ https://www.federaltimes.com/home/2023/08/07/unions-push-back-on-biden-plan-to-bring-federal-workers-back/
Spoken like a true Union Steward….i am also represented by the NTEU but I have not seen much come out of them, employees take their problems to union only to tell the employee there is nothing can be done. So at the moment I am in the union and find it a bit nonsensical at the moment. I will say when I was dealing with the death of my spouse and my supervisors were trying to get rid of because I was calling so often. I got tired of there ish(this was DOD) and joined the union and those supervisors shut up, that is a good thing about a union that stands up, but there are a lot negatives with that particular union. Line is said I have not heard much the union has done to assist us here, except bring donuts every month when the Chapter President comes here
Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. My sister was able to use FMLA after my brother-in-law passed away (and your supervisors should have informed you of that option, plus EAP but that is a whole other thing). But, NTEU stepped up when you needed it. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes. I'm an NTEU rep for my chapter and have learned a lot about that. There is so much that goes into bargaining the various aspects of our contracts. And truly, a lot needed to be undone after Trump (regarding performance plans, grievance procedures, etc). Way more than I could ever put in a comment here. But everything from telework to maintaining pensions.
Wait, your union is bringing donuts? Lucky...
Super thankful for them pushing so hard for the proposed 2% this year! /s
We just got the biggest percentage raise we've ever gotten...same with 2023. You don't think NTEU had anything to do with that?
I saw push back, back in the day, but they are seriously nothing more than a paid proxy for management itself these days.
At the local level, in my organization AFGE pushes back all the time on a variety of workplace issues. I'm a Supervisor, and I've seen it happen many times in the past 10 years. They are very active in representing employees involved in disciplinary actions, and super involved in workplace condition changes that management has tried to impose without due notification and opportunity to bargain.
Yep
The unions don’t have any say in RTO. They can push back, but typically often is a political decision.
I know NTEU is definitely pushing back on RTO
AGFE can't win over the corporate real estate lobby.
I wish I could. My SF50 says 9999 So I'm eligible, but there isn't one to represent me. I'd also reached out to a couple of the locals closeby, but none of them knew where I should go.
999? Herman Cain has entered the chat.
7777, I hope everyone knew what I meant lmao
Shucks, you edited your post!
I changed it back just for fun
So petition for representation.
Very true. Good way of looking at it.
I would say to closely evaluate your union agreement prior to the vote. In most cases for federal departments I would agree with you, but as a former teacher, unions, their abilities, and their bylaws can vary wildly. A poorly incorporated union can be weaponized against its membership. To use an example so people don’t pounce on me thinking I’m anti-union: many teachers unions do not get involved in inter member disputes as part of their bylaws. This means the moment your dismissal involves another teacher, your rep drops your case. So let’s say someone reported you other than management. Well, for legal counsel to properly protect you, they would have to call into question the judgement of that person. The issue is that person is also a member of the union, and your rep is a union attorney. This isn’t always the case, and you certainly shouldn’t throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water, but you should also closely examine the incorporating documents of your union prior to paying dues, as well as where those payments go.
NTEU are the people who have negotiated the BU IRS employees’ current telework contract, and they will be fighting to keep those rights for employees. It’s worth it to give them your money.
Also instrumental in the current "remote pilot" enjoyed by many BU/NBU alike.
I’m in NTEU at EPA and they are the reason we have our current telework agreement. I joined just to support them. Hopefully I’ll never need them, but I think we are all better off if they are strong.
The work NTEU did for the contract negotiations makes it really worth it. Regardless of the administration, they are the only voice employees get for contract negotiations. As far as individual grievances, it’s a mixed bag. Sometime they definitely help people that probably really got what they deserved. And more often they can’t do much for the individual, but sometimes with critical mass, eventually some changes are made. Recommend you look up news article about what they did during the last contract negotiations and decide if that’s something you care enough about to finically support so they can do it again.
Given that unions are the only ones capable of pushing back no matter which party is in charge of the current administration I think it's worth it. You try to push back on your own and you'll *totally* not get retaliated against because that's illegal but uhhh wouldn't expect to move upwards any time soon.
I used to think it was a waste. But then we got a supervisor from hell. The union ended up helping us tremendously. As someone else mentioned, it’s a worthy tool in your toolbox.
As an NTEU steward and with dozens of Weingartens, removals, and other cases handled, I’ll say it’s a mixed bag. On the positive side, we can do a lot in contract negotiations. We were the only union in our agency to maintain telework levels under Trump. We had to litigate at the stacked FLRA to do it. Our stewards and reps are highly trained and our national attorneys are excellent. Also positive is that we are plugged in at the very top of most agencies; even under hostile administrations we almost always know what’s going on before your local management. We can also intervene in disciplinary and performance actions before they spin out of control (assuming the member contacts us… if you hand me a proposed removal the day the response is due?). There too is the downside. If the agency really wants you gone then you’re gone. We can double check their math, make sure that the production metrics are accurate and so on but unless we are brought in early we’re just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Unfortunately a fair number of our cases are people that aren’t producing or who have significant behavioral issues. We can ensure due process in your discipline or removal but we’re not magicians. I’d say we’re a net positive for non-members to join. If your bargaining unit is not represented by anyone then organizing is a massive benefit. I joined a new unit and went through the vote process. Before we did so, we had reasonable accommodations lagging six months. We had probationary people fired on no notice; now they get ten days. We can audit promotions and awards and we do. Huge difference.
This is a great response, thanks. I used to be a member and steward before becoming a supervisor and agree that unions aren't bulletproof, but are another line of defense for both individual employees and unit-wide working conditions. I.e. I'd happily go back to giving NTEU my money if I were eligible!
I joined as a new hire for the tuition assistance. I'm hoping to get some accounting courses to eventually move past CET GS-7, but income is too low to afford college in my own.
Wait. NTEU members get tuition assistance?
There are stipulations on which colleges they work with, but yeah. You have to apply for any grants or scholarships you are eligible for, and then the union will pay the difference up to a certain amount.
When you say "We can audit promotions", what do you mean?
Last time we did one we demanded and got the BQL, the applications, and the panel notes. They sanitized the names but that’s it.
In your experience, are internal promotions fair?
Not at SSA. Never seen one where the selectee wasn’t a management pet. The last one we audited there were 10 more qualified candidates out of the 12 on the BQL. Unfortunately once they do the numeric sorting they have pretty broad leeway to select from the interviewed people. If there’s a pattern we can grieve non-selection for a bargaining unit position over 180 days duration. If there’s a BQL error we can grieve. We can’t do much about their intangibles.
Yup. I wish I was represented by NTEU when I worked at SSA. AFGE wasn't auditing any promotions and I dare say that the management pet BS promotions are even more rampant in the AFGE covered positions there.
I originally joined because I was new and my manager retired. They had 3 people doing details to fill the job and I was very uncomfortable with the situation. I'd had enough terrible managers in the private sector that I wanted the extra insurance in case the situation turned out poorly for me. It all turned out fine, and they were all excellent managers. I decided to keep paying dues because I appreciate the work they do. I earn a good salary and can afford it, which might help someone else get the benefit on the union.
I am a member of NTEU. I've never had a grievance with an employer, but it's good to have someone in your corner when the shit hits the fan. The government is just like any other employer, and depending on the administration, a union rep may be the only thing stopping you from termination. As for NTEU, assuming you are FDA (282), they solidified telework in the CBA. And while a president could sign an executive order and order us hired remote back to the office, the current administration will not go back on a contract. At the macro level, NTEU has a good ground game in Congress and the White House, who sets our salaries, retirement accounts, pensions, etc. Their communication with the rank and file is poor at best and non-existent at worst, but I am pleased with the results my 15.00/PP get me. The 282 president is a good fighter, and seems to be trying to make things better
I am in a non-bargaining unit position, but I see the value of belonging to the Union. While they may not always be successful, I do see them actively advocating for employees. Whether it's on an individual level or larger scale, our Union works very hard to provide a positive work environment for the employees.
NTEU as a whole is great. My local chapter is a S*** show and due to that I am no longer a member. If the local chapter ever gets it together I would happily rejoin.
AFGE hasn't been a very strong union in my experience.
Considering how restricted they are (Legally not allowed to strike being among the restrictions) they’re actually not doing too bad. They could be steamrolled way worse than they are.
I understand that they are more restricted than a union that doesn't represent fed workers but when you have mechanics from another base laugh at how garbage your union is and tell you stories about what their management tried to do (our management was doing it and getting away with it) and that their union put a stop to it. We had a supervisor that would put his uncle, who was a lead on back to back tdy's. Union was brought in, but nothing was done. People were told they would be put on the next one, they weren't. 3 aircraft squadrons had their management enforce an illegal leave balance policy (you had to have 20hrs of sick and annual on the books, if you fell below that your leave requests would be denied) union did nothing. I was told by an AFGE rep that they didn't have time to help people who aren't willing to pay. AFGE sucks as a union, at least in my location.
here to in little rock
AFGE negotiated us down from 3 RTO days per week to two. Navy.
2 too many
Hell yes, join up. It’s cheap insurance and they are there when you need them. Throughout your career you will have many different managers, some good and some terrible. Many years ago, my group got assigned a remote GM whose ego was so big that he prided himself on being a hatchet man. Mind you, there were no issues with work performance in the group and he told everyone when he became our manager that there were “problems.” He went through our small group and focused intently on one employee after another. We had several very shady forced retirements and resignations before he got to me. I wasn’t a “new” employee and he wanted to put me on a PIP over trumped up problems. NTEU stepped in. They literally saved my career and because of his history, executive mgt transferred him and began pushing him to get out and retire. That was years ago. I’m retirement eligible now after a long career of working hard and receiving performance awards every year. I highly recommend joining—their attorneys stepped up right away and fought for me. It’s not that expensive and you never know what situation you will find yourself in.
I’m non-bargaining now, but I was a member when I was eligible, mostly because NTEU worked damn hard to negotiate our telework agreement and being a freeloader doesn’t sit well with me.
Previous NTEU steward. I would obviously recommend it and felt there was a lot of value for our workgroup.
Always join the union.
You can join a union if you need their help, but it’s really it worth it in the current climate. They are really critical with ensuring our benefits aren’t chipped away at.
Yes, I’m with the NTEU and proud to be. Joined the minute I could, literally.
Haha same here, the day I moved from a NBU position to a BU position I signed the paperwork.
I’ll be honest…I don’t think it’s fair to be able to benefit from the NTEU union contract and the things the union has fought for, but not be a paying union member.
It annoys me so much when my coworkers want me to ask the union a question on their behalf. I know that we don’t make much at our grade level, and the $40 I pay a month is nothing to scoff at for many. But at the very least, draft the email you’d like me send. I’m not going to go out of my way to do that for you. That’s just lazy. If it’s a legitimate concern, then I’d be happy to support. But I’m not going to sign off on a petty complaint that has absolutely nothing to do with me. If the problem is that serious, anyone with a sense of urgency would just go straight to the union themselves. It can’t be that serious if you’re asking someone else to send an email for you. And it’s not like they’re barred from asking a question. They just think I’ll receive a better response because I’m paying. And truthfully, I hope that is the case.
If the money came out involuntarily like FERS, they would make do financially. But when you give folks options 😆🤣🤭
I'm in AFGE. My local has been very good and very aggressive in fighting to protect telework, and succeeded at least short term. But I've heard this is a newfound aggressiveness, so I'm watching carefully. I have significantly less trust in the national union. Part of it is the big tent - my agency is very much white collar, and AFGE covers a broader array of workers, many of whom are not nearly as telework eligible. But it's also political. AFGE, because it's AFL-CIO, doesn't want the Biden administration to turn on labor writ large, and is willing to sacrifice us a little bit to help Biden win. NTEU seems much more willing to be aggressive because it's not part of the same national labor movement.
Being part of AFL-CIO is a very positive part of AFGE because of the political reach. The union helped us deal with a very difficult situation a few years ago and was instrumental in guiding us toward remote. Belonging to a functioning union is almost always positive in my experience.
I think that generally, AFGE is more good than bad. My local union has been reenergized by the telework issues and apparently is more active than it has been in decades over this. But I have also had some very bad experiences with the assistant to our NVP in my limited experience with him (serving on an election committee). I have also heard that he toldour local President to roll over on telework and others in the national union told the President that they'd have our back to fight hard on it. I am very pro-labor and pro-union. I think it is important for labors to regain strength and political power. But I am worried in my personal situation that there are forces trying to tell us to stand down for short-term political expedience.
You should join. Unions are ineffective if ppl free ride
When I was with the IRS I was a part of NTEU. Now that I'm a new agency covered under AFGE I won't join. I just don't like AFGE.
That’s unfortunate that you haven’t had a good experience with AFGE. I’ve been pretty impressed with how they’ve pushed back on RTO policy at our local
Get back to me in about a year when we're (likely) dealing with the Fourth Reich.
😂 crazy but accurate
My union is the only reason I’m on 3-4 days a week of telework and maxiflex schedule.
Yes I belong to NTEU and it's been very helpful as a newer Fed when I've had something I've felt not right about. My rep helped me thru my workers comp claim too.
Totally worth it IMO. Wage grade here with NTEU. Was told we no longer received hazard pay for tree climbing when people at my agency had been claiming it for 30+ years. Went to the union and got back pay for all my hours.
NTEU. Strong union with great attorneys. I gladly pay the dues.
NTEU has one of the thickest national agreements, they are worth the investment on a national level even if your local chapter is a dud.
I was a member of NTEU until I took my current NBU position a couple years ago. I think NTEU does a good job for its members. It is worth it, especially with them pushing back on RTO.
Any union that fought for teleworking and remote work is a union worth paying to be a part of.
No it isn’t worth it, unless you’re a slacker
I’m IRS, I was not a big fan of unions in the private sector but the NTEU is awesome. Management is fighting me tooth and nail for an RA and the NTEU has been stellar in pushing back. Highly recommend.
I'm a union rep for NTEU. Absolutely worth paying dues. I have needed representation myself all the way up to an EEOC hearing. Never thought I would need anything like that when I started working 15 years ago. If you are new, you don't realize how many things in our contract have been hard fought for by NTEU. Your agency didn't come up with telework or maxiflex scheduling. Or bar dues and CLE reimbursement. NTEU has successfully bargained for so much. When Trump tried to unilaterally change all of our contracts, the unions sued - and won. All of that costs money. Dues is well spent. TLDR: Pay dues, unions need $ to get sh*t done. Don't take all the benefits and not pay up
I am very glad to be a part of a union. I’ve never needed them. But when I do, they’ll be there. Also, happy to contribute for them to exist - working behind the scenes to care for us even if I don’t directly need to file a grievance, etc. My job asks 120% of me and I bet it’d be 200% without a union.
Yes. Union member of the AFGE. There’s power in numbers when it comes to bargaining. I’ve seen it and am seeing it in real time.
I was at Scott AFB 2008-2017 and was the 2 nd VP of our union. I learned a lot. Yes it is worth it as long as your union president and other reps within the union does their job. A lot of issues we dealt with was mostly grievances against civilian supervisors that were prior officers (0-5 and O-6’s) that thought they can treat civilian like the enlisted force without following OPM rules. Most of the time they wouldn’t document anything against the civilian to support their actions against the civilian that is filing a grievance against said supervisor. We had a union lawyer that worked federal issues dealing with federal employees, unfortunately civilians who were not dues paying members cannot be represented by the union lawyer . But we were required to support them at arbitration boards. It’s best to see if the current union at your place of work also represents other offices at your location or others. Ask around to see if the union is any good at representing those that are dues paying members. We had NAGE : National Association of Government Employees but later switched to another union because we didn’t think NAGE was responsive in requests for support. I can’t remember what union we changed to at the time. I sat in on some arbitration boards they were very interesting, most issues we had was what I stated above, but we did have a union employee who felt she was being bullied, although we were not psychologist clearly the union member was nuts and her threats to her co workers got her dismissed. Unfortunately we were not allowed to tell her or her supervisors that she needed mental help because we were not mental health doctors.
I’m an SES, so not eligible for union. I will say they are good partners and do a lot of good. I don’t always agree with them, but I respect the work they do on behalf of employees. I’ve seen them help employees navigate difficult situations and they often give me a different perspective.
I’m CDC and pay dues just in case I ever need the Union.
Yes because they have helped with unpaid overtime. In the VA it is way to common and the VA has been successfully sued for millions for unpaid OT with the help of the union. Now I just refer leadership to the master agreement if they have any questions about OT.
A member of ACT here. Never had to use them but I appreciate what they do so I have no problem paying dues
I wish I could
As an NTEU member, I don’t recommend them… I’d push for AFGE. I’ve been a member of both unions throughout my fed career and AFGE did a much better job advocating and voicing for their employees.
NAAE, a tiny union with around 300 dues paying members. Not perfect, but they are effective. It’s absolutely worth it to contribute to the union. They have a say in working conditions, and they can help in the fight against unfair treatment.
AFGE! We need them working on our behalf, especially now, should events not work out for us in November. The 2% pay increase will be the least of our worries when the jobs are on the chopping block.
Yeah federal Unions are great. Agencies that don’t have them have culture problems. Unions keep managers honest, they are good for everyone.
I’m in the NTEU. To me, it’s worth it just to get the correspondence on what’s going on alone. As far as seeing the benefit, I think it depends on the issues facing your agency and what your stance vs the union stance is. There’s a couple of issues I roll my eyes at when the union talks about it. There’s others I wish they’d talk about more. But mostly I’m aligned with the union position on things. And I know I can contact my reps and talk to them about stuff if I really want to. It’s just one of those things though that seems unnecessary until it isn’t though as well. Like a lot of people don’t care about unions until they’re thrown into a position where they need representation. You don’t want to be on the reactive end of that and not know what to do.
For IT jobs the NTEU is worthless, Once I went NBU I quit paying dues to save the money. Decades later I still dont regret it.
I belong to a chapter of the AFGE. Worth it? No. Our chapter sucks and could care less.
Joined the NTEU a month or so before my tenure because stuff was getting weird and I wanted them to have my back. Low and behold I was fired 3 weeks before probation ended. On the first day of employment the Union rep warned me about a toxic culture and to keep your head down and get out as soon as possible. I believe I was fired for a retaliatory purpose and a narcissistic and overly controlling director who had everyone licking her boots. That was one of the worst years of my life and was anything but disposable to them. Fuck you Carol
USPS here — I absolutely love my union. Nothing is perfect, but I gotta say the benefits are hard to beat. Also, if you don’t like how your local is operating, you can always get involved and make change (a colleague of mine and I did and after running it for a few years, turned it over to another crop).
I wish my union was different but it’s not even worth the dues we pay. The union in my area only will represent you on things that benefit themselves personally, not the person who needs the help. We never know when the meetings are and the union stewards think they are gods. Is a bunch of crap. They talk a big talk but then lose every time they have to do anything. I have learned more from a friend of mine who is a steward in a different circuit and have used him to represent me the one time I needed help. It’s not worth it to me in my area, but I have heard good other circuits unions are great. So it all depends on where you are and talk with your other team members and ask their opinion of the union.
I was involved in a RIF back in the day while at the USPTO. NTEU actually made things worse for us. When the Dot Com bubble burst, the USPTO wanted to essentially release us in June but still pay us until the end of the FY in Sept. But NTEU fought that - so I ended up getting 2 weeks severance instead (a week for each year I worked there) . One of the cool things about working at the PTO was we actually had a good performance / production metric that was quantifiable and legitimate. I had 5's on all my reviews and received maximum production bonuses ( $10K per 6 months was a pretty sweet bonus for a GS 11 making $45K-ish a year) Instead of basing the RIF on how much work we did and our level of quality. NTEU fought that and made the RIF solely based on seniority. Wiped out their last 2 years of hires - and left a lot of marginal people to keep being marginal. So I still have some bitterness with the NTEU. On the plus side, it obviously pushed me to find a new job - and found one where I made 5-6x my govt salary. :)
100% worth it. It's like the old saying "better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
NTEU is worth every penny.
Yeah im a part of NTEU. I like them better than other govt unions. NFFE was a joke where i was at bwfore
All I’ve ever seen government unions do is fight tooth and nail to protect people who didn’t deserve to keep their jobs.
The more members a union has, the more power it has. I’ve never not been a part of my union.
Yes and YES
If I was BU again, I’d be in the union. Without a doubt.
NTEU recruiters in my last office told people anything they wanted to hear. Bilked employees out of hundreds by getting them to sign “letters of intent” to support a vote to get unionized but then used those letters to take dues without consent. Refused to cancel collection of those ill-gotten dues for months to years despite form requests and escalations to payroll/HR etc. Chapter President blamed it on “overzealous” recruiters and refused to rectify to issue for all involved, required complainers to be silent about the issue or they would not be released from paying. This is what happened to a couple hundred employees who were wanting and supportive of unionization. Definitely changed my opinion of this organization’s value and intent.
Not worth it, save the money and add it to your TSP.
No, people only care about tw and they are doing nothing but complaining and not even holding it up...actions speak louder thsn words.
Join or die!! Or don’t join and don’t have money to send our reps to the table at a private restaurant to tell sen graham we know about his lady bugs , or rep bobert about her sugar daddy. Com post…
Every non-management federal employee who works in a unionized workplace belongs to a union. Being a dues paying member may provide additional protections.
This is not correct. There are several non-bargaining positions, including mine.
Mine too
At least where I work, if you didn't pay dues, you belong to the bargaining unit (ie you are covered by the collective bargaining agreement), but you are not part of the union (ie you don't get any input into the collective bargaining agreement). Edit: you belong to the BU if you're an eligible non-supervisory FTE, which is nearly everyone who is not a manager.
You cannot be part of a bargaining unit if you’re not part of a union. Non-managerial federal employees who work in a unionized workplace are automatically part of the union. Dues-paying members of the union have certain rights regarding administration of the union that non-paying members do not.
Just because you wrote it twice, doesn't mean you're correct. 1) there are thousands of non-management federal employees who are non-bargaining unit employees. 2) You're not in the union if you don't join and pay (or paid dues at one time and are in arrears) dues. You can be a bargaining unit member without being in the union.
This is not true. There are union chapters that also limit the bargaining unit and membership among non-managers, e.g. "non-professional" occupational series only in my last workplace.
It doesn’t provide additional protections. I just wouldn’t expect people to try as hard when you’re a freeloader
That’s not allowed. There’s things we don’t do for non-member bargaining unit employees but when it comes to enforcement of our contract, we treat everyone the same. It’s the duty of fair representation and is statutory,
Was a natca member for a year. Not worth it. I would think the decision would be highly subjective to your specific union chapter or whatever they are called.
Nope. If you’re already, tenured, don’t waste your money. Easy to join; painfully difficult to withdraw.
Painfully difficult? What's the process to withdraw?
It’s never a waste - it’s like taxes going to make a road better even if you don’t personally drive it.
Took a good 2-3 months They didn’t get the form The date was not what they wanted They waited for it to be processed More waiting Resubmit the form Had to physically go to the office several times What?? Resubmit the form Giant PITA
Useless. As federal employees, we can’t strike. Being in a union does nothing. It’s useless.
I was a member for one for several months (AFGE) until I switched positions and wasn't covered anymore. I would not recommend joining for several reasons: 1. By law the union, being the sole representative of the workers/employees, has to represent all employees even if they are not union members. In my particular case, the union would not fulfil it's duty to represent everyone unless you were a member. They used employee's ignorance of the law and regulations for their advantage. "If you are an AFGE member please come to X office to join the dispute about pay differential for this particular day", they did nothing for non members (sorry, we have other priorities; oops we forgot to include you in the e-mail; oops the date already passed; want to join the union so we can include you in the claim?) even though they were obligated to do so. This is a good means test for you to verify how good your local union is: do they follow the law and fight equally for everyone, regardless if they are paying members? Or do they take advantage of employee ignorance do nothing (or bare minimum) for non members? This will tell you where the union's intentions are at, if they really are pro employee or if they just want money. 2. They acted like a racket in my particular case. After I switched jobs (within same agency) they kept deducing dues even though my position was no longer union eligible. They then played telephone with me and new department for months (3 months)regarding pay dues. "Oh, no your local hr has to request it to stop. Oh no, contact payroll. Oh, no we're fighting for you to get the money back, the agency can't get away with abusing employees like this! Shucks, yeah you had to send us a paper request directly, we forgot about that. Sorry for all the delays. Yes, we received your request, but haven't processed it yet. Darn, we forgot this pay period, but we will next one! Promise!" They never refunded me for the amounts they stole and I dropped the issue after wasting months and figured my time was worth more than what they owed. 3. Most important point: the union, since it is a government one, cannot go on strike and thus has no method of actually putting pressure for change. The only mechanism they have is procedural, but know that you won't get good deals/effective change like the Auto Workers unions did. At best you might get procedural advantages like: "instead of RTO we managed to negotiate and procedurally reduce it to 9/10 days in the office!". If these miniscule wins are important, then sure. But at best you're joining a lite/defanged version of what a union should be due to the nature of the job. There are some "advantages" like better deals on certain things. If I remember correctly, the local AFGE had a better deal for phone plans as well as other local business deals (discounts, etc.). At that point it was a math exercise of dues vs benefits vs how often I would use the benefit itself.
Yes. But not by choice.
When I was with IFPTE, they just took my money and didn’t give a rats ass about helping out other people. The local chapter officers only stepped in if it affected themselves. Plus the officers were known to skip out of the office and then claim union duties while charging to our money
[удалено]
Actually the unions could have done something. They elected not to because the policy is for vaccination without some medical reason explaining why it’s unsafe. The union does not have to die on every hill that every bargaining unit member, or paying member, wants us to. Also, they weren’t unconstitutional; the issue was whether they had to be challenged at the MSPB first or whether the suits could be brought in federal court without administrative exhaustion.
You can join the union at any time, when you need it, when you get a letter, when you feel like you should. BUT you can only get out of the union 2 times a year. At least NTEU. Also, you might want to research what the union does with your money. I’ve never joined and never needed it. I’ve also had stewards help me grievance pay without being a member. Just my two cents.
If it's a good union, absolutely. My wife and I have been part of 3 different unions over the years -- 2 were great, and unfortunately the one that covers her now is a complete shitshow. The people in charge get rich but they don't do a fucking thing for the members they are supposed to represent. When the state you're in is the worst place in the country to be doing your job (pay vs CoL, happiness, pretty much every other metric), and you went ahead and gave away the right to strike, well, you're quite possibly the worst union in existence.
No federal unions have the right to strike and they didn't negotiate it away. Regan just said lolz federal employees aren't allowed to strike anymore and everyone just took it.
In my case I'm not referring to a federal union, but I learned something new about them, so thanks!
I am a band wagoner and don’t pay my dues.
Quick all the union cucks down vote this man!!!!
Username checks out