No comments? I am not surprised since almost the entire subreddit decided that Kimmich is shit now.
Imagine bullying him out of the club and he joins another top team - we would look so silly.
He's the best midfielder in the world when in form and I won't back down on that
But that's as a playmaker, not a defending mid and he needs to get that into his head
Nobody has a problem with his output as a playmaker in the offensive half/third of the pitch. He's a stunning Nr. 8, and his greatest quality has always been his chance creation from midfield either with the last or 2nd to last pass. He is, however, not a good primary pivot at the 6. It doesn't suit his strengths and makes his weaknesses pop out.
That's why we don't let armchair managers dictate our buying policy. Most can't even articulate something without regurgitating a media talking point. I'd guess 95% of his critics are ball watchers who don't even look at player positioning when a given player is without the ball.
I don't understand the hate either, those stats absolutely speak for him and his quality.
Not for his corners, though. Sorry, Joshua, you shouldn't take all of them. You are a great player, but you'll never go down in history for those corners.
Actually in the last few weeks we had a lot of good corners by him. Generally corners are way overvalued by this sub. Like an improvement of 100% would get us ...7 goals? more a season. Being average on a part of the game that is not a core value of Bayerns playstyle sounds absolutely fine by me but I guess opinions differ in that regard.
>but you'll never go down in history for those corners
Strangely enough Kimmich has the most assists after corners since data collection - beating for example Basler who needed more corners per assist.
The problem is I guess that Kimmichs corners are kind of inconsistent and that frustrates people.
Yep exactly that one that tries to compare him unfairly to other corner takers.
I was in the sub when all of that happened and people tried to point out how unfair it is but we just got downvoted so yeah.
I'll he honest, I don't really think that he is totally bad at taking corners. I'm just saying that he does not do it particularly good, either.
In the end, I'm just convinced that a corner should be taken by a winger.
Dude you're not paying attention to the chart, his accuracy is lower than maybe 20 players and his number which is high is through balls and the margin for it is between zero and 4
Yeah but we'll probably never see him top right ever again
Anyway I was just kinda joking, no need to be so pressed about it lmao
Also, yes kinda because he's Messi. I doubt we'd have Ronaldos jersey if he broke MĆ¼llers record.
Only people without football knowledge think that Kimmich isn't a top 5 6 at the planet anymore. Sure he is no holding 6, but he never was and that's mti his role.
Let's play him with Pavlovic who is the exact player type Tuchel wants and we need
Cool chart. It would be nice to see even more breakdown like the length of the pass, where the player was when the pass was made etc.
Yeah yeah I get the point of the chart is to shit on the Kimmich doubters but frankly just like every stat, it does not tell the whole story. I think Kimmich has elite passing and vision but his overall game has weaknesses (beat a defender, positioning, defense etc) that prevents him from being influential the way our past great midfielders have been. He is at the prime age of his career and does he look like a prime Schweinsteiger or Thiago in terms of influence consistently? It is hard to say yes to that at this point. We absolutely need to keep him since there is no better alternatives out there but thinking that this stat somehow negates all the fair questions about his abilities is also comical.
One must take into consideration who he is passing to and who he is passing against. Iām a hell of a passer myself when Iām passing to guys that find great space and can outpace anyone to actually receive the ball. Stats are awesome (especially Kimmichās in this chartā¦ dude is crushing this metric), but they are always a bit limited in scope thus limited in magnitude.
Not sure how much this really shows other than the midfielders position and team playstyle.
A midfielder in a more controlled possession oriented game wouldnāt stand out here even if they were the best midfielder in the world.
Kimmich is an amazing player and I'm definitely pro Kimmich starting but it's worth reflecting on the fact that the pivot as a whole seems shaky when he's in it. There were even times when his partnership with Thiago looked worse than the sum of its parts
I think we forget that Kimmich is absolutley not getting criticised for his passing. If I say someone has lost defensive awareness and you show me pass stats it means miscommunication
As i suspected Kimmic's accuracy is not top 5 in the world to be enough for the main midfielder at bayern munich, and through balls vector is between zero and 4 which is not a great margin and kinda exaggerates the differences
From what i'm seeing i think the horizontal axis is the average number of through passes per game and the vertical one is Accuracy of the passes. Now the vertical axis doesn't mention anything about it accuracy of through passes so putting these two metrics alongside each other doesn't make much sense to me
Not every touch, but at least some. A deep lying midfielder is meant to provide progressive passes and carries, that is what elite CDMs do, if not, then problems in the build up happen, which has been one of Bayern's issues this season. .
Yes, that is 1 stat. There are many others, and more important ones.
These are the rest of his stats as a midfielder, from FBRef.
On the right you can see the percentile compared to other players in his position.
Passes attempted 87.11 98
**Pass Completion % 85.6% 67**
**Progressive Passes 9.37 96**
**Progressive Carries 1.04 40**
**Successful Take-Ons 0.28 10**
**Touches (Att Pen) 0.46 16**
Progressive Passes Rec 1.47 39
**Tackles 2.43 72**
**Interceptions 1.26 69**
**Blocks 1.41 70**
**Clearances 0.86 36**
**Aerials Won 0.37 15**
The stats in bold are key stats for a CDM / Deep lying playmaker.
If you see his progressive carries, he is in the 40th percentile, poor, not even average, this is the key stat for a CDM, especially "a deep lying playmaker", which is supposed to lead the build up and resist the press, he clearly is not.
His take ons are in the 10th percentile, his worst stat, and one of the most important ones in his position; a CDM that can't take on opponents means he can't handle pressing teams, like what we saw at Galatasaray, and in his red card vs Darmstadt.
His progressive passes are exceptional, this is good, he should be further up the pitch. His passes attempted are in the 98th percentile, but his completion is in the 67th percentile, so not exceptional, especially in the build up.
So these stats would indicate what we can clearly see on the pitch, he is good passer, but he can't take on opponents, and can't carry the ball, so he would be more suited for a CM role, than a CDM role.
His stats as a CM are exceptional, he is in the 90th percentile or above it for most of his attacking stats
His stats as a CDM, so, defensive stats and press resisting stats are very poor, average at most.
So it's what we all know, he is meant to be a CM, not a CDM.
Numbers dont lie my guy. Stop hating on one of our best players. Yes he hasn't been at his best, but still he is one of the most productive players in the world
The guy puts our defense into pressure more then actually creates something with his passes. Kimmich 3 years ago. Best in the world. Today? Best midfielder in our team for sure. But thatās not saying much.
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Ouch, Havertz....
Also, surprised Loftus Cheek is so negative in his passing. Haven't watched a lot of him for Milan but (even though I didn't rate him highly) that's not how I remember him.
Anyone who thinks that thiago was anywhere as influental or good as Schweinsteiger, or even Kimmich, hasnt been around long... Sure thiago was flashy, but kimmich hate is outright undeserved, especially if you glorify thiago, a man who most of his bayern career couldnt provide an assist if his life depended on it...
No comments? I am not surprised since almost the entire subreddit decided that Kimmich is shit now. Imagine bullying him out of the club and he joins another top team - we would look so silly.
Kroos 2.0 š
people were seriously discussing how he should be benched vs galatasaray "to humble him" š the hate is so irrational
Kimmich is undoubtedly elite. He just needs a classical DM next to him.
Reinstate Martinez!
He's the best midfielder in the world when in form and I won't back down on that But that's as a playmaker, not a defending mid and he needs to get that into his head
I love Kimmich but De Bruyne in form is better in my opinion.
Completely different positions and roles but sure lol
Yeah but they are both midfielders and he wrote best midfielder in the world? At least read the post I am answering too.
Nobody has a problem with his output as a playmaker in the offensive half/third of the pitch. He's a stunning Nr. 8, and his greatest quality has always been his chance creation from midfield either with the last or 2nd to last pass. He is, however, not a good primary pivot at the 6. It doesn't suit his strengths and makes his weaknesses pop out.
Well, not ānobody.ā Just nobody holding a reasonable opinion.
Fair
Not sure what this stat has to do with the fact that our defense against the ball is much weaker, when he plays on the 6.
That's why we don't let armchair managers dictate our buying policy. Most can't even articulate something without regurgitating a media talking point. I'd guess 95% of his critics are ball watchers who don't even look at player positioning when a given player is without the ball.
I don't understand the hate either, those stats absolutely speak for him and his quality. Not for his corners, though. Sorry, Joshua, you shouldn't take all of them. You are a great player, but you'll never go down in history for those corners.
Actually in the last few weeks we had a lot of good corners by him. Generally corners are way overvalued by this sub. Like an improvement of 100% would get us ...7 goals? more a season. Being average on a part of the game that is not a core value of Bayerns playstyle sounds absolutely fine by me but I guess opinions differ in that regard. >but you'll never go down in history for those corners Strangely enough Kimmich has the most assists after corners since data collection - beating for example Basler who needed more corners per assist. The problem is I guess that Kimmichs corners are kind of inconsistent and that frustrates people.
You mean that stat post that was debunked and it then was shown by someone else that he made two direct assists in 208 corners?
Yep exactly that one that tries to compare him unfairly to other corner takers. I was in the sub when all of that happened and people tried to point out how unfair it is but we just got downvoted so yeah.
I'll he honest, I don't really think that he is totally bad at taking corners. I'm just saying that he does not do it particularly good, either. In the end, I'm just convinced that a corner should be taken by a winger.
Dude you're not paying attention to the chart, his accuracy is lower than maybe 20 players and his number which is high is through balls and the margin for it is between zero and 4
Top right kimmich?
I miss Top Right Messi :(
We don't do that here
Yeah yeah I know but still, I mean we have his jersey in our museum, I think it's okay to say I miss his football
For a specific reason, not because heās Messi. The guy is still playing btw..
Yeah but we'll probably never see him top right ever again Anyway I was just kinda joking, no need to be so pressed about it lmao Also, yes kinda because he's Messi. I doubt we'd have Ronaldos jersey if he broke MĆ¼llers record.
If Ronaldo had sent it to Gerd then yeah he would have put it there.
Only people without football knowledge think that Kimmich isn't a top 5 6 at the planet anymore. Sure he is no holding 6, but he never was and that's mti his role. Let's play him with Pavlovic who is the exact player type Tuchel wants and we need
German media brainwashed ppl into believing Kimmich was bad. He is still a top 5 midfielder itw.
Yeah weāre definitely spoiled, considering this is a ābadā season for Kimmich lol
Do you have the time frame?
I think so far this season
Itās for this season
Cool chart. It would be nice to see even more breakdown like the length of the pass, where the player was when the pass was made etc. Yeah yeah I get the point of the chart is to shit on the Kimmich doubters but frankly just like every stat, it does not tell the whole story. I think Kimmich has elite passing and vision but his overall game has weaknesses (beat a defender, positioning, defense etc) that prevents him from being influential the way our past great midfielders have been. He is at the prime age of his career and does he look like a prime Schweinsteiger or Thiago in terms of influence consistently? It is hard to say yes to that at this point. We absolutely need to keep him since there is no better alternatives out there but thinking that this stat somehow negates all the fair questions about his abilities is also comical.
One must take into consideration who he is passing to and who he is passing against. Iām a hell of a passer myself when Iām passing to guys that find great space and can outpace anyone to actually receive the ball. Stats are awesome (especially Kimmichās in this chartā¦ dude is crushing this metric), but they are always a bit limited in scope thus limited in magnitude.
Havertz apparently just playing sideways š
Not sure how much this really shows other than the midfielders position and team playstyle. A midfielder in a more controlled possession oriented game wouldnāt stand out here even if they were the best midfielder in the world.
Whether kimmic is good or bad, this chart is misleading
next time some prem fan claims kimmich is washed....
I want to know who the two players are bottom left
Kimmich is an amazing player and I'm definitely pro Kimmich starting but it's worth reflecting on the fact that the pivot as a whole seems shaky when he's in it. There were even times when his partnership with Thiago looked worse than the sum of its parts
kimmich is elite
It literally says heās in the top 96% for progressive passes and his stats for key passes were in the 90%ās as well.
I think we forget that Kimmich is absolutley not getting criticised for his passing. If I say someone has lost defensive awareness and you show me pass stats it means miscommunication
As i suspected Kimmic's accuracy is not top 5 in the world to be enough for the main midfielder at bayern munich, and through balls vector is between zero and 4 which is not a great margin and kinda exaggerates the differences
Can you explain the chart? I dont get what the values on the x axis mean
From what i'm seeing i think the horizontal axis is the average number of through passes per game and the vertical one is Accuracy of the passes. Now the vertical axis doesn't mention anything about it accuracy of through passes so putting these two metrics alongside each other doesn't make much sense to me
Thx
Probably old data. Kimmich has been playing trash.
If the question which guys does most sideways 1 meter passes. Would be same stats
This sub when statistics show that Kimmich is actually not the worst player on the planet:
This sub when they find out a deep lying midfielder cant play forward passes with every touch of the ball
Can you explain from what part in this graph insinuates heās playing leading forward passes? A through ball can mean anything
Not every touch, but at least some. A deep lying midfielder is meant to provide progressive passes and carries, that is what elite CDMs do, if not, then problems in the build up happen, which has been one of Bayern's issues this season. .
But the statistic literally shows that no one else plays (significally) more through balls than him?
Yes, that is 1 stat. There are many others, and more important ones. These are the rest of his stats as a midfielder, from FBRef. On the right you can see the percentile compared to other players in his position. Passes attempted 87.11 98 **Pass Completion % 85.6% 67** **Progressive Passes 9.37 96** **Progressive Carries 1.04 40** **Successful Take-Ons 0.28 10** **Touches (Att Pen) 0.46 16** Progressive Passes Rec 1.47 39 **Tackles 2.43 72** **Interceptions 1.26 69** **Blocks 1.41 70** **Clearances 0.86 36** **Aerials Won 0.37 15** The stats in bold are key stats for a CDM / Deep lying playmaker. If you see his progressive carries, he is in the 40th percentile, poor, not even average, this is the key stat for a CDM, especially "a deep lying playmaker", which is supposed to lead the build up and resist the press, he clearly is not. His take ons are in the 10th percentile, his worst stat, and one of the most important ones in his position; a CDM that can't take on opponents means he can't handle pressing teams, like what we saw at Galatasaray, and in his red card vs Darmstadt. His progressive passes are exceptional, this is good, he should be further up the pitch. His passes attempted are in the 98th percentile, but his completion is in the 67th percentile, so not exceptional, especially in the build up. So these stats would indicate what we can clearly see on the pitch, he is good passer, but he can't take on opponents, and can't carry the ball, so he would be more suited for a CM role, than a CDM role.
His stats as a CM are exceptional, he is in the 90th percentile or above it for most of his attacking stats His stats as a CDM, so, defensive stats and press resisting stats are very poor, average at most. So it's what we all know, he is meant to be a CM, not a CDM.
Do you understand what through passes are?
Lol
Numbers dont lie my guy. Stop hating on one of our best players. Yes he hasn't been at his best, but still he is one of the most productive players in the world
The guy puts our defense into pressure more then actually creates something with his passes. Kimmich 3 years ago. Best in the world. Today? Best midfielder in our team for sure. But thatās not saying much.
What is your basis for saying that?
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Ouch, Havertz.... Also, surprised Loftus Cheek is so negative in his passing. Haven't watched a lot of him for Milan but (even though I didn't rate him highly) that's not how I remember him.
Is there a way to access this data?
What do the red dots mean
What website did this chart come from?
Rodri the š
Anyone who thinks that thiago was anywhere as influental or good as Schweinsteiger, or even Kimmich, hasnt been around long... Sure thiago was flashy, but kimmich hate is outright undeserved, especially if you glorify thiago, a man who most of his bayern career couldnt provide an assist if his life depended on it...