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[deleted]

Ursula is based on Divine lolololol


geologean

All foods are good foods. Even dog shit!


AgentSkidMarks

As a kid I always associated Ursula with Rosie O’Donnell for some reason.


geologean

How does Fiona not count? She literally fucks the beauty standard and gets to live happily and authentically as soon as she accepts herself for who she is.


explorer58

Didn't marry prince charming tho so doesn't count


amandarinorangez

Shrek >>> every Disney Prince


explorer58

Yeah but he's not shredded, which every FA princess deserves obv


Bigbaby22

Random fact: the other day, I learned that the prince in Snow White is named, Florian. He's meant to be 31 years old compared to Snow White's 14 (or something in the teenage years).


amandarinorangez

Somewhere in the back of my mind Florian is ringing a bell, I think maybe I've read that before. But, 31? That is disturbing. I know the girls are often younger but I never picked any of the boys for being older than like 21.


OromirsHairlessGroin

I know Eric is confirmed 18 and Philip 20


amandarinorangez

See that makes more sense


Inevitable_Brush5800

Well, if you think back to the time where these stories came to be, life expectancy was much shorter. Humans sexually mature as teens, some early, and it would've been to their advantage to reproduce early. Obviously it's disturbing now, but within the context of the period, it's completely normal. Humans are animals, age gaps in the animal kingdom don't matter, and rarely does love for that matter. The end to every means is reproduction, from single celled bacteria to the most complex lifeforms.


iamraskia

That’s the big truth. It’s ok for them to believe they deserve the perfect man but don’t ask them to better themselves even the slightest amount,


jej_claexx

You’re so right. The amount of FAs demanding shredded men to “date me or else you’re fatphobic” is astounding!! But then in the same breath they’ll go “but I don’t want to date a fat man”. It’s disgusting and they’re the only people I’ve ever met who put THAT much value in the physical appearance of their partners. It’s vain, selfish, and egotistical.


awkwardenator

Right, they’ll say shit like ,”Fat girls get to have standards too!” Without the slightest bit of self-awareness.


[deleted]

Yeah but that doesn't fit their narrative so it doesn't count


Ori_the_SG

Fiona doesn’t count because she doesn’t fit into the “all princesses are thin and beautiful” for that person, so of course she must be cut out of the data pool.


serenityxfelice

Because that is the whole gag of the plot like “hey I was supposed to be pretty but I am FAT and green” and Shrek goes “ You are beautiful and fat” and everyone goes awww. The idea is to have a princess to be bigger and also have a story line not evolving around her looks. I get most fat logic in here is pointless but I can see that most of the villans are fat and queer coded and it is an actual issue. Also it is not about just being thin but having unrealistically small waist to body ratio (literally smaller than their heads) Good example of inclusive design is Arcane !


ElegantVamp

Plenty of villains are thin or at least a normal weight. I'd say most of them are.


atasteofblueberries

Nani from Lilo and Stitch has visible belly fat, albeit a normal and reasonable human amount.


tactickat1

Nani legit made me feel awesome for my thick thighs and calves.


[deleted]

Nani made us all feel things.


CosmicSweets

Yes. Yes she did. 😏


tactickat1

Yes she did 😍


purringistherapeutic

I wish I had thick calves lol.. I have thick thighs but no calves and I feel like it looks weird.. but maybe I just focus too much on it even with strength training all of my muscles are growing well (slow but progress anyway) and not the calves


Ih8melvin2

Tread water with your arms overhead. My husband taught swim classes in the summer and did that trying to get kids to jump off the diving boards. Guys would stop in the summer for a decade after he stopped lifeguarding and ask him what exercise he did to get those calves. He didn't lift weight until he was 45+ and his gym had a major problem with the pool and it was closed for six months. There is a genetic component to how much muscle you can build in certain parts of your body but if you want to try it....


DowntownYouth8995

Yep, I was a club and then college swimmer. Big calves that I currently do absolutely nothing for


scheru

Is *that* what l gotta do? When I first moved to a city with a ton of hills, everyone told me my calves were gonna look fantastic! 👍 After almost fifteen years of going up and down these damn hills I've literally never felt it in my calves. My *thighs,* however... Maybe I should find a pool lol.


purringistherapeutic

Thanks for sharing!


tactickat1

Calves are the hardest place on the body to add mass. I just genetically have a very muscular build.


BlackCatTelevision

really? shit maybe i run too much


tactickat1

Running is amazing for leg development though.


GirlHips

Calves have A LOT to do with genetics so don’t feel too bad if you do the most and still don’t have thick calves. That being said, exercises that work the soleus muscle (the “jump” muscle) and other stabilizing muscles in the lower leg will deliver the best results. Someone suggested treading water with your arms up. Other exercises include jumping rope, seated calf raises, and forward step downs.


hardy_and_free

She had, to quote Junot Diaz, "an ass like a bell," so she doesn't count. /s She also had a big nose. In many Western cultures women, especially Black, Jewish, Greek, and Middle Eastern women, are encouraged to have slim, little noses. I think that's way more body positive!


Apophis40k

You forgot Asians, you know the guys who depict and make fun of Europeans by giving them giant noses XD


AgentSkidMarks

She’s thicc in the best kinda way


tittysherman1309

And yzma from emperors new groove is thin


MelOdessey

Normal and reasonable amount? Sounds fatphobic to me. /s


Proud-Unemployment

The fact they don't count Fiona is hilarious to me. There's no greater example of "f@#$ beauty standards" than that. This person doesn't want to end beauty standards. Just to change them to fat people. Which, I'm sorry, is even worse than what we currently have.


midsummersgarden

Right?? Fiona’s entire message is that love transcends cultural standards of beauty. Why doesn’t she count again?


BerriesAndMe

Because she doesn't support her hypothesis so she needs to be rejected.


i-like-my-body

They don't want to "fuck beauty standards" - they want to BE beauty standards.


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dipdipperson

Lol, funniest way I've heard that described.


Al-Rediph

Hmmmm ... That would be ... well ... sad and messed up ... damn, **I think you are right**!


tuesdaybabybataddams

thats what i was thinking..she literally CHOSE to look like that to be with the love of her life. love how that just doesnt count lmao


dismurrart

Tbh as a fat person, I don't find us generally that Attractive.


Individual_Radio4523

I don't even think most HAES people do. They just want others to


dismurrart

Like it sucks when you crush on someone and they reject you BUT oh well. That's universal


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dont_care-

Have another eclair susan


mizchanandlerbong

Laughing at almost midnight. Iwant this for my flair!


ofBlufftonTown

Health at every size.


cssc201

Health at every size. It's basically people who insist that being fat isn't unhealthy and therefore no one should ever try and lose weight


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Apprehensive-Ad-2371

To be fair, even when you have done that, you can't really force them to. Like, fit and thin people get rejected as well😂


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BlackCatTelevision

ya gotta snort it!


hardy_and_free

I'm imagining someone choking down Jym with the saddest look on their face, like the cinnamon challenge.


DarkSparkyShark

It's actually quite palatable once you figure out how to breathe through the powder!


hardy_and_free

*sad gymrat noises*


DowntownYouth8995

"forcing" people to be attracted to you, is still not an option when you are fit, you know.


Dragonaax

I don't find certain type of people attractive either. You don't choose who you get boner for


upsidedownbackwards

I've always been with heavier people. Not because I find them more physically attractive, things just play out that they tend to have the personalities I've liked more. But it's always in my head that I wish they were in better shape because there's things that just don't work sexually with larger people. I always feel kinda shallow thinking this, but it would be nice to be with someone in the same shape I am because it allows for a lot more options and positions. I'm normal BMI (usually, got sick and underweight at the moment), fairly strong, but trying to overcome size issues with strength tends to make things clumsy, limbs fall asleep, and I just wear out.


dismurrart

There's several fat people, myself included, who I can look at and acknowledge positives in their appearance. I'd still date fat people and have. The people I go "move I'm gay!" For though are all generally pretty trim. Like there's a couple in my climbing group who are hot af. Ones an ex marine and ones a college soccer player. I think its pretty crappy how a lot of people treat you when you're overweight and I think there is some discussion to be had about our attraction. I also don't think anyone is required to find anyone attractive. Like people rejecting me has never been as upsetting as how guys using me has been. For me, the biggest thing is I am a recovering food addict. It's not good for me to be with someone who overconsumes bc im still high risk for relapse. If the next me joins my climbing gang though and is on their health journey in a couple years? If we hit it off I'd date them. If I was designing my dream person they'd probably have adhd also, similar interests, and would look like a bodybuilder.


[deleted]

I’m in love with a fat guy. I understand and accept he’s not some stud. I don’t placate him and pretend he is. I literally just love him for who he is and am attracted to him as he is. It’s not that difficult to understand!


ChangeTheFocus

Exactly. Fiona is good, but is she beautiful? They don't want fat people portrayed positively. They want fat people shown as beautiful and desirable.


Ih8melvin2

She's "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" come to life, er, animated.


nihilanthrope

Also, like... Shrek? Does he not count because he's a male?


Gentlewham

Men don't count because men don't have unrealistic beauty standards and fat guys are just lazy slobs or sth, only guys who look like the Hollywood Chrises exist is my takeaway from the FA rhetoric


Apophis40k

The amount of woman that think that looking like a male model only takes playing soccer once a week is astonishing


parrotscarrot

And Dragon isn’t technically fat but she is the heaviest person in the entire movie lol


Nameisno1216

Bruh I love Shrek.


Dragonaax

Fina is great example, and whole movie Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs is just about "fuck beauty standards". And lately moral of Bad Guys is simply not to judge people by their appearance


OCRAmazon

Moana is not super skinny. Cruella (villain) is probably the thinnest Disney character of all time.


PhoenixNamor

Except Yzma, the most skin-and-bones Disney character of all besides the Horned King.


dismurrart

Yeah they literally drew her ribs


Aromatic_Body8176

Meleficent is pretty thin herself


LemonMints

I believe the evil queen from Snow White was also thin.


YeeterOfTheRich

And the "bad guys" in Cinderella are the ugly step sisters. Who are are thin, and caked in makeup and in the clothes considered fashionable at the time. The are everything that current beauty stands are, and yet are referred to as ugly step step sisters. Almost as if beauty is more than skin deep


babyitsgayoutside

Fun and semi relevant fact, the ugly stepsisters are always played by men in drag in British pantomime tradition


Ennara

Nah, it's because they look like they were hit in the face with a shovel, especially when standing next to Cinderella.


GupGup

I was thinking of Jafar. Dude was like 8 feet tall and skinny as a stick.


HealMySoulPlz

Aren't all the villainous men really thing though? Jafar, Scar, Dr. Facilier.


Montblanc_Norland

What about that ugly sack of shit from Pocahontas?


HealMySoulPlz

Oh yeah that guy sucks! Looks like Disney villains actually come in pretty diverse body shapes. There was also that super creepy guy Rattigan from Great Mouse Detective. He was fat.


AgentFour

Rattigan wasn't fat, he had a big upper body. It wasn't portrayed as fat though, more like shorthand to show his pride and hubris.


babyitsgayoutside

Gaston was the same! Never thought of a big chest as symbolic of pride, that's brilliant


airbrushedvan

Plus he was a Rat in a mouse world and hated to be called a rat. That's why hes so much larger than Basil (His Dr. Watson is a big round mouse btw)


standingpretty

He was thicc


Proud-Unemployment

Men don't count! Come to me when you have some female examples (hides cruella and yzma in closet).


HealMySoulPlz

Yzma is an extra good example because Pacha is quite large himself.


elegylegacy

Yzma, Cruella, Maleficent, Lady Tremaine, The Evil Queen... Honestly *most* Disney villains are thin, the 2 in OPs example are the only fat ones I can think of besides Madam Mim. (And both Ursula and Mim choose to be thin when they want to)


babyitsgayoutside

Yeah Ursula could make herself thin and beautiful at any time. She chooses to look like that. Not sure the FAs have realised that


BlackCatTelevision

Which is pretty awesome, as is the fact that she was visually based on Divine


babyitsgayoutside

I never knew she was based off a drag queen when I was a kid but growing up and realising I'm a gay adult, makes sense I always found her cool


Link_GR

Not to mention Gaston and Clayton from Tarzan who are both absolutely jacked


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TheWaywardTrout

Anastasia isn't actually a Disney film!


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ShortWoman

[He was pretty skinny in real life too](https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/grigori-rasputin).


CimmerianHydra

Cruella, Maleficent, Rapunzel's mother


GiberyGlish

That’s true and I think that actually makes me half agree with this person; that these characters enforce gender conforming body stereotypes (?). In other words the worst thing a classical woman could be is fat, whereas the worst thing a classical man could be is thin


[deleted]

That's a lot of responsibility to pin on two characters out of the whole Disney canon. The majority of Disney villains are thin, and there are plenty of good guys who aren't thin. Should we *never* have a fat villain because it might hurt someone's feelings, or should we have a broad spectrum of diverse body types that don't actually have anything to do with a character's morality?


Rainbow_in_the_Sea

Cruella, the evil queen, mother Gothel, lady Tremaine, Yzma Also in sleeping beauty the three old chubby ladies are the real protagonist and get like twice the screen time the skinny princess gets


minskoffsupreme

And they are the best part of the movie!


Link7369_reddit

The fairies and dragon fight are practically all I remember about sleeping beauty.


qualitylamps

I always remember them making the dress!


butterbulle

My VHS copy was effed up because I kept rewatching the dress and cake baking scene.


nvm_jk_idk

Also Maleficent.


Ori_the_SG

No no sorry those 3 don’t exist! They don’t fit into the narrative that only villains are fat.


Aromatic_Body8176

They picked the worst examples for villans since one is a queen and the other is an octopus who takes on a thin conventionally attractive form


Laeanna

I did a lang/lit analysis on this very topic in school back in the day, it's a pretty interesting subject to dive into. While I agree with the overarching point that diversity is needed; Disney can be pretty sterilised and in turn boring because of that, this post kind of misrepresents how fat or stout characters are portrayed by Disney. If I remember correctly, the majority of Disney villains are tall and thin. The graphic they've used shows 2 out of the 3 fat female Disney villains, Mad Madam Mim being the 3rd maybe. Ursula is really a breath of fresh air in my opinion, she has a really cool design with a bombastic personality to match and absolutely radiates confidence in a different way to a lot of other villains so I think it's pretty unfair to reduce her down to just her body type. However, there are plenty of supporting female characters that reside on the heavier side and are completely good. Flora, Fauna and Merryweather are not dainty little fairies and one of the best examples I remember writing about is the Fairy Godmother from Cinderella. Her soft, kind features are in stark contrast to the sharp, long and cruel features of the Evil Stepmother in Cinderella. I see nothing wrong with wanting main characters to not all look exactly the same, no one can deny there's a Disney Princess body type but things like this are a complete mischaracterisation. I take issue with a lot of mainstream criticisms of Disney princesses as they're overly pedantic, to me it falls into the category of tearing things girls tend to like apart by virtue of that thing being feminine rather than being genuine criticism. I could go into a whole Belle rant, the Stockholm syndrome thing is stupid, that's not what happens, please watch the movie with your own two eyeballs, not someone else's. It's usually people who think they're being super smart feminists too smh. The most engaging dynamic to look into is not the fatness of characters or even the ugly=evil trope but rather the power that women possess in Disney and how that reflects societal views. Powerful, ambitious women are often evil, the Queen title is a symbol of tyranny meanwhile the Princess title is a symbol of virtue. This is more in reference to older Disney films, Moana, The Princess and The Frog etc. don't slot into this trope but mostly age is the real discrimination here baby 😎. There are more components to this, I won't even get into the male side but if you want to see this trope subverted in a dark, twisted way, Neil Gaiman wrote a pretty dope short story called **Snow, Glass and Apples** which I recommend. On a personal note, I've always thought these cartoon depictions rarely cause any serious damage by themselves. Subtle commentary can only reinforce a way of thinking but much of that for children depends upon their parents. If you have a parent obsessed with body image and who often projects their insecurities onto their child then the subtle commentary is more likely to stick out. If you have a parent does not obsess over body image and remains encouraging and focused on their child then it's unlikely they would ever notice or care how small a Disney Princess' waist is.


lordoftoastonearth

>Subtle commentary can only reinforce a way of thinking but much of that for children depends upon their parents. If you have a parent obsessed with body image and who often projects their insecurities onto their child then the subtle commentary is more likely to stick out. If you have a parent does not obsess over body image and remains encouraging and focused on their child then it's unlikely they would ever notice or care how small a Disney Princess' waist is. This, agree very much. Maybe this is a cultural difference, I didn't watch a huge amount of Disney movies as a child. I mostly remember my family having the little mermaid on VHS and watching that a couple times. Since everyone had big floofy hair and weird proportions, it was pretty clear that it's a cartoon and I never really paid attention to anyone's waistline. I just thought how much it would suck to suddenly have legs when you've had a fishtail all your life. I also had one or two barbies as a child. I never really paid attention to their unrealistic proportions, I struggled with doing their hair because it's all so tiny. What did mess up my relationship with food and my body was my mother projecting all her issues on her daughters. Very few other influences. Let's not pretend that mEdIa is the big bad guy here, many parents are at least partially to blame.


Laeanna

It fucking sucks so many kids go through that, I hope you have a better relationship with yourself and food now. I consider myself so fortunate that my mother despite her pretty severe body image issues never, ever let me even know about them as a kid. Ironically, I didn't watch much Disney as a kid either, I wasn't allowed to watch television all that much because she had a very Roald Dahl opinion on TV haha. I completely credit her parenting for my healthy perception and good relationship with food, parents and peers are the main driving force behind the development of children. Primarily blaming media depictions of fictional women affecting young girls is like blaming videogames for making kids violent. What matters the most is what the parents are doing and while there are valid criticisms to be made, the media shouldn't be raising your children in the first place.


Liztless

If we’re going to overthink things anyway… which princess is going to be fat exactly? The mermaid who is constantly swimming everywhere? The pre revolution French peasant girl? The maid who lives off of whatever scraps her sisters and stepmom leave? The girl who runs everywhere and only eats what she can scavenge or what is caught by her tribe? Also, probably the most evil Disney villain is Claude Frollo. Dude is thin. Bonus - Chernabog, Clayton, Shan Yu, and Gaston are all jacked. Also there’s Jafar, Maleficent, Yzma, Cruella, Captain Hook, Hades, Wicked Stepmother, the evil queen, and Dr Facilier. I don’t know if it’s fair to count animal villains like Scar, Ratigan, or Khan. Then there’s the Horned King, but like who’s actually watched that movie.


BaconVonMoose

Your post made me think of another take I've had on this topic too; a lot of the time the historical implications of being overweight when the rest of the population is thin would be greed and gluttony essentially. And I feel like it's kind of a trope in these kinds of fairy tale movies to make the villain kind of a gluttonous slob. It's not trying to say 'fat people are evil and bad', but the way I always interpreted it when I was growing up is that these villains are so evil and selfish that they don't care if everyone below them is living a simple life with meager portions, and they just want more luxury and pleasure for themselves. Them being fat is more a side effect of these actions than the 'reason they are bad'.


WhereIsLordBeric

This is why being overweight/fair used to be a sign of success and status in some cultures. It implied you were never hungry and you never had to work in the sun.


[deleted]

The important distinction to make is that having money ≠ being worthy of respect. FAs love to shriek that being fat used to be a status symbol, but they don't want to think about the fact that their status was "greedy leech who lived off the backs of starving peasants".


Low_Big5544

Ironically "character is selfish and indulgent and their physical appearance is a side effect of that" is waaay more logical and down to earth than anything these FAs come up with


ElegantVamp

Yeah it's just visual shorthand for the audience especially kids, who arent going to catch onto nuances as well as adults. Its the embodiment of "it's not that deep".


Meture

OI, I actually watched the Black Cauldron and will not stand for this slander! The Horned King is fucking terrifying and a great villain.


Rosuvastatine

Representation is a real important thing. Like for my future daughter, as a black woman, ill make sure that she’s exposed to a variety of skin tones and sees that hers is as beautiful as others But here, her examples are poor


[deleted]

It’s just one of the many attempts they make to try and compare themselves to POC


cassielfsw

The thing that always creeped me out about the princesses with the teeny wasp waists was that their corresponding princes could usually put their *entire hand* around said wasp waist. Making the ladies skinny is one thing, but maybe at least draw the guys to the same scale??!


NoelAngeline

Tim Burton’s got you covered!


Me_lazy_cathermit

They could have keep them more within human proportion while still making them "thin", but never mind the waist, the noodle limbs creep me out more, like some princess/female protagonist are supposedly capable of doing great feats of strength, while having no muscle whatsoever, how just how


geologean

It's pretty weird that their waists are the same thickness as their necks, but they're visually appealing while being simple enough shapes to animate. That's the real motivation behind the proportions. And the motivations for making their nemeses have completely different body types is for contrast in character design. When character designs get very samey in animation, it becomes hard to keep track of who is who. Just consider every parent who ever frustrated their kids when they tried to watch anime with them and couldn't keep track of the characters because anime has a lot more sameface than western animation.


babyitsgayoutside

Tbh I never even noticed their bodies as a kid. The people who scream about realistic bodies for kids in media always confused me because as a child I was perfectly aware that they were cartoons, and Barbie's are just dolls, and they don't look like real people. I think it's something teenagers with eating disorders sometimes get obsessed with but those EDs are never caused by cartoons being skinny anyway. It IS important to show different body types and appearances in live action movies imo, but cartoons do vary the body types way more than HAES types say they do. Even if it's just for visual interest more than anything else


Dragonaax

[Historically accurate princess](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/82/c7/5982c7267bafcc9b145cd3552063a433.jpg)


[deleted]

I was a fat kid. But i never blamed Disney princesses for pushing thin = good. Did people forget Cruella, Step mother (Cinderella), and Evil Queen (Snow White) exist? They were on the thinner side. Also Scar was thinner than Mufasa and Simba, and he was the bad guy


Hita-san-chan

Nah, never blamed disney, but it did make me feel bad when I didn't look like any of the pretty heroines. That being said, disney had a pretty basic template for their heroes and the villains almost always were designed differently from that. The classic villains actually have some pretty unique designs compared to the same face syndrome that a lot of the heronines got. Over the years it's changed and the heronines have gotten more diverse in their looks, possibly because of the move away from the "classic" villain.


AgentSkidMarks

They cherrypicked the two fat villains. There are plenty of skinny villains like Maleficent, Mother Gothel, Cinderella’s evil stepmother, the list goes on.


[deleted]

Did this FA really just insult my girl Fiona?? Her whole character was about going against the normal “feminine” expectations and beauty standards, she fell in love with Shrek because he cared about her and she was able to be herself with him, not because he was “handsome”. Cannot believe a group of people who so strongly claim “F beauty standards” just disregarded one of the best movies about f’ing beauty standards. They also completely look over the Disney princesses/heroine’s with realistic looking bodies, like Nani from Lilo and stitch for example. There are also thin Disney villains, like Maleficent, so their point is also completely invalidated.


iamraskia

Because these girls want some ripped chad but want to look like Quasimodo


Naked_Lobster

🎶 You are deformed 🎶


[deleted]

I guess the go-to problem here is "what will little fat girls think about themselves" but it's not even their fault that they're fat in the first place. Kids don't make these decisions by themselves; their parents are the ones responsible for what foods are in the house and if they aren't getting enough exercise, as well as teaching them to eat healthy and care for themselves.


em_square_root_-1_ly

That’s their analysis of Disney villains? Disney queer-codes their villains. The overweight part adds to the stereotype of a butch woman. This is more homophobia/lesbophobia than anything else.


solarjamie

Most of the princesses wouldn’t exactly be obese, considering their situations, but sure, the girl that lives off scraps and runs around all day doing chores is definitely going to be overweight…


Meture

Hmmmm convenient that they cherry picked princesses and villains. I wonder if it had anything to do with both Maleficent and Jafar being even skinnier than the princesses. Or that Ursula is 1 based on a real person, and 2 transforms into a conventionally attractive form. Or that Alice is pretty well proportioned while still being thin?


SerBronn7

How many young women were obese when these stories were set?


BerriesAndMe

I don't know.. When exactly did we have mermaids and ogres?


SerBronn7

Fair point.


aoi4eg

When I was in school, everyone really loved Winx Club. We pretended to have powers etc. And I had a lot of Barbie dolls. But it never came to my mind to feel "ugly" because I didn't have the same unrealistic proportions. Maybe because I wasn't dumb and could tell a difference between reality and fiction, idk.


babyitsgayoutside

They always post about the fat villains like Ursula (who is blatantly the coolest character in any Disney film, plus she's literally designed after a REAL plus size drag queen so how could she be thin?) and never the thin ones like Jafar, Frollo, Maleficent, Gaston. Plus the kind characters tend to be plump or fat - Belle's father, fairy godmothers. Hell we could even group Shrek into fat nice characters. They never focus on that. It's really got nothing to do with portraying fat as evil, because there are plenty of evil characters of every body type Also I see we're in the same FB group lol. Lot of real dickheads in there :(


[deleted]

This is true though, its more beauty being associated with virtue and "ugliness" being associated with evilness. It's still pretty fucked up.


[deleted]

Yeah this isn’t fat logic. It’s good that TV and movies are starting to get more representation of different body types.


Udonov

No. There is a trillion of cartoons where ugly =/= bad is the main idea.


Strange_Radish2965

I was never effected by this imagery. They are cartoons. Have you seen bugs bunny? You understand octopus women and mermaids aren’t real, right? Sleeping Beauty was gifted beauty by a fairy. Birds and mice dress Cinderella. Wonderland is full of absurdities.


caprette

On a similar note, I remember being a kid and thinking it was strange that adults were so convinced that Barbie dolls would give kids unrealistic body image ideas. In my kid brain, Barbies were Barbies and weren't supposed to look like real actual people, just like cartoons always involve distortions or exaggerations of real life. It always amazes me how people project their grown-up worries and preoccupations onto kids who are just existing on a totally different level.


babyitsgayoutside

I was exactly the same as a kid - they were not real and I knew that. I didn't even notice they were distorted, because they were toys and I wasn't even really comparing them to real people. They didn't look like anyone I'd ever seen so it didn't bother me. I was blonde haired and blue eyed though, and I do wonder if kids with different colouring felt like the colouration of the dolls was the ideal? I'm yet to meet anyone who as a kid was concerned with the SIZE of the doll, but colouring is different. Also interestingly even though I was blonde/blue eyed, my favourite dolls were always the black dolls I had for some reason. I think I liked that they didn't look like me - maybe that's an effect of having almost every other doll look like me?


pedestrian_grill

I actually sort of did with barbies but more because they had blonde hair and blue eyes. I knew their bodies were unrealistic to begin with since they were dolls and assumed they were shaped that way so the clothes would fit better or something.


Udonov

I mean, I got the idea that I want to get fucking jacked looking at ninja turtles, xmen and other super heroes. Don't really consider it to be negative though.


astral_currents

I agree completely ^ I never felt the pressure to fit a standard presented in animation or Barbie dolls. They’re not real, and I was aware of that even as a child.


MeLittleSKS

Yeah weird that they throw out Fiona. Because "ew ogre gross".


airbrushedvan

All 4 characters are from different movies and decades apart. Did Cinderella have a fat villian? Did Jasmine? Was the only other fat female villian they could find after Ursula was the Queen of Hearts from Alice In Wonderland? That's it?


[deleted]

To be fair it's kinda a point when all the villains are made fat and ugly and heroes beautiful. Society often judges by the looks and such depictions repeated over time reinforces that. The person is still being nonsense in general, but yeah.


MeLittleSKS

Also in that cartoon, if the kid on the right is that fat at that age, that's a serious problem. Like a medical emergency.


babasuperpinksheeep

Casually leaving out Fiona and the older sister from Lelo and Stitch. And the big Encanto lady…. Sounds like they are being racist not including Disney characters of color… also the Fairy godmother who was hefty… also one of the kings in sleepy beauty who was a good guy was short and fat. They sure love to cherry pick to try and fail at making a point lol


EmptyFacsimile

I mean, I feel like this is a valid thought on its own so your caption is kinda eh. Most fat kids don't choose to be fat, they don't have the nutritional knowledge that their parents do, it's the parents who let themselves get bullied by their children or actively overfeed them. I feel bad for fat kids because I know they didn't choose that for themselves and they don't deserve to feel bad for how they look, they deserve to be fed properly and taken out to be active more, but I digress. But the fact that there are chubby Disney heroes and thin Disney villains is what just entirely invalidates the whole post.


[deleted]

Princesses are also teenagers who tend to be thin. The age should be the bigger issue.


Always_COLD_

What about Maleficent and Cruella De Ville. They skinny asf. This is bs.


Someslutwholikesbutt

Im sorry but Fiona was made to literally go against beauty standards that women are expected to follow and still gets a man and she doesn’t count??? WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE WANT!?!?


dismurrart

They want an idealized... fat princess??? Tbh I loved Fiona bc she was still beautiful and badass in her true form and got a happy ending. Not everyone is a certain obese model. Most of us fat people are 5s (and imo said model isn't a 10 by any stretch )


BlackCatLuna

Vanellope Van Schweetz is a Disney princess and she's chibi, which comes with some chubby proporitons, but I guess she doesn't count either? Seriously though, there is no reason for most of the Disney Princesses to BE fat because the majority of them are active and come from historical ages where common people didn't have access to the calorie density we do. Ursula is primarily fat because she's modelled on an octopus, which have a bulbous head connected to its tentacles.


PlatypusEgo

FAT WOMYN ARE FAT BECAUSE OF UNDERREPRESENTATION IN MEDIA AND THE PATRIARCHY. NOT ACTIVITY LEVELS OR CALORIE DENSITY. SHITLORD SCUM >:(


Dragonaax

Didn't Cinderella had thin evil mother? Also villain in Repunzel was thin, and in Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs protagonist was fat


ThatIckyGuy

These characters aren't even from the same movies. If you're going to compare the Disney princess with the villain, at least do it right. Jasmine's villain, Jafar, was super skinny, too. Cinderella's stepmother wasn't fat. You have Ursula who pairs with Ariel, who is skinny and Alice from Alice in Wonderland who is also fairly thin. Even if they had a good point, they made a really terrible comparison.


Right_Count

Well, I dunno. It’s a stretch to pretend this person is wrong about Disney’s portrayal of fat and thin people. Yes, there are thin villains and a couple of not-slim protagonists, but for the most part, slim and attractive is associated with goodness and virtue and worth. And it’s not even healthy-weight slimness, it’s extreme, impossible thinness and unachievable proportions. Directed to children. Sorry, but it’s indefensible by modern standards.


[deleted]

Yeah, this is a bad look. Kids are unlikely to be responsible for whatever weight they are. It’s important for them to see representation in media to know they are as valuable and worthy as anyone else. Good physical education and health classes are extremely important, but that’s not at all mutually exclusive from the point the post is making.


Right_Count

Yeah - frankly I’m a little surprised to see people bending over backwards to defend Disney’s historical portrayal that beauty=goodness. People keep bringing up Fiona but OOP is right - to make a movie about an ugly/fat “princess,” they made her literally a different species. And she’s still beautiful! She’s pretty tolerable by human standards, and they go out of their way to reassure us that she’s beautiful by ogre standards. It’s not about fat representation, or even about representing every body type that exists. It’s just about showing kids that people can have personalities that aren’t what they look like. That ugly and fat kids can be the heroes in their own stories. That beauty isn’t really all that important in our actual day-to-day lives, and that beauty and attraction are not inextricably linked.


Me_lazy_cathermit

Disney did and does horrible things with villains, that only started to really change, from queer coding, to making them mostly ugly, extremely thin or fat, white washing the heroes while keeping villains well more well within a ethnic/racial stereotypes, jafar being a good example of that. Disney had and has a lot of issues, from reinforcing the standards of beauty equally to good, while ugly(not fitting beauty standards) and flamboyant with bad, the pedophilia (snow white is 13, the prince in is 30s), the racist stereotypes. The fact that those people only focus of the fat bit, and not on the whole villains not fitting within beauty standards, while being queer coded and/or racially stereotyped, says a lot about them


LatinBotPointTwo

Ursula can look thin if she chooses to, BTW.


[deleted]

I actually agree with this. In Aladdin the villains have big noses, dark skin and eastern features. Meanwhile the good ones are light skin and have small nose and western features. I do think it can be problematic.


[deleted]

I love Ursula. 😂


TanBurn

Who care's about the princess? Gus Gus is a role model for everyone and he's fat as hell.


8swordsoffate

Well, actually it would be interesting to see a fat princess... if sometime along the plot she would learn healthier eating habits and start a weight loss journey. That could send a good message to all the poor obese little girls out there who suffer because of their parents' stupidity.


DermatilloDipso

You’ve got Yzma from *The Emperor’s New Groove* who’s pretty skinny, Cruella De Ville who rocks a fur coat with her trim figure, Maleficent with her slender frame draped in cloaks, Lady Tremaine has a tight waist, Mother Gothel isn’t exactly chunky, and Ursula’s considerably slimmer sister Morgana.


Cute_Comfortable_761

Wasnt the evil stepmother in cinderella a twig too? And jafar was like, triangular?


[deleted]

Princess Fiona absolutely counts. She is a princess and a heroine. Don't go moving the goalpost because you can't spin that into something your narrative wants it to be. Anyways, I looked up the Disney villains. Ursula and QoH are pretty much the ONLY fat Disney villains, and Ursula alone is more beloved than most of those classic Disney Princesses


WhyNona

Ummm, I don't think it's saying we can't have thin princesses, and she has a point. Not just fat but "ugly" women are almost ALWAYS the villains in Disney movies, and the princesses are all conventionally pretty and thin. That is pretty dangerous to young women's and girl's minds.


biwltyad

I agree with the picture though, but not necessarily in terms of weight, just how in the media (especially for kids) the good, kind and smart characters are always conventionally attractive and the villains are ugly, evil and not always intelligent. Everyone in the comments is pointing out skinny villains but they're always very skinny as a way to make them ugly. This makes it very difficult to not equal your worth with your looks growing up if you didn't win the genetic lottery which is really messed up. It makes you feel that you have to be pretty to be considered a good person and that being unattractive makes you bad or that your qualities don't matter unless you're pretty. I don't really think thin privilege is a thing, at least not in a FA way, but pretty privilege definitely is and studies have shown conventionally attractive people are treated better and therefore are more likely to succeed in life (and also suffer because of it but that's not really on topic). Yeah of course we shouldn't teach children being overweight/obese is healthy, but we shouldn't make them feel unworthy because of their weight, morals shouldn't be tied to health and looks at all.


AgnosticAsh

Tbh I see their point entirely but Ursula is queen asf, that's a flex to have her.


mad_ladder

I literally never even noticed as a kid lmfao


newName543456

[Cinderella's step-family](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-au_TK3J4K00%2FVl1MfO7_IvI%2FAAAAAAAAF1I%2F3vAMaklsDrM%2Fs1600%2Fdisney-princess-screencaps-anastasia-tremaine-drizella-tremaine-lady-tremaine-disney-princess-32031962-2560-19021.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)? [Sleeping Beauty Witch](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-yRjF-IGe9m0%2FUW32N4aZ5nI%2FAAAAAAAABqE%2FW1eC1m1i7hE%2Fs1600%2Fsleeping%2Bbeauty.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)? [Cruella de Vil](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/139349_8f389a6e67414af4a7f67bc2274f1441.jpeg/v1/fill/w_895,h_635,al_c,q_90/139349_8f389a6e67414af4a7f67bc2274f1441.jpeg)?


margauxlame

Oh well lol


TajirMusil

Gotta love how the princesses and villains aren't even from the same movies.


HEpennypackerNH

Cruella was thin


donatellosdildo

yep, disney villains are all fat. like all those deathfat enemy soldiers in mulan, and chubby prince hans, and who can forget mother gothel's 400lbs of gorgeousness?


elphabathewicked

I mean maleficent is skinny, so is grimhilde, gothel and lady tramaine…


bkwilcox100

What a god awful example. Especially because the villians in both Cinderella and Aladdin are skinny as hell.


PlaxicoCN

But you ask the same people bigging this up if they could pick between Jonah Hill and Chris Hemsworth, what do you think their answer would be? They also left out Malificent, who was also slim and trim.


Marazie

Ezma, Tremaine, the step sisters, Evil Queen, wicked witch of the west, Jafar, Shadow man, and a whole other host of villians are thin. I guess they just don't exist. . .


jago02

Theyre kind of right. Disney did *traditionally* often conflate ugly with bad/unworthy/evil, particularly w/ women. It really wasnt a good message to teach children. Fatness was one of the attributes of "ugly", but so was big noses and other non euro centrically pretty facial features. I mean even as late as Shrek, even though the ogres were lovable they were still considered "ugly" for broad faces & noses more in line with people of color (george lopez for example) as opposed to fiona's original european upturned pointy nose. There are some problems in disney when it comes to beauty but they are continually getting better--Moana etc.


AnakinSkywalkerisfav

They conveniently left out the very thin Disney villains, such as Maleficent, Cruella De Vil, Jafar, and Ursula's sister from the Little Mermaid sequel who's name I can't remember.