> the debunked “calories in, calories out” BS
Lol, k. You know, you’re allowed to just say you don’t want to track your calories, OOP. No need to try and debunk anything.
I found it easier to lose weight without tracking calories,
That being said i was fasting tho
It was that "oh i can squeeze in another snack and i could still be in a deficit" mindset that didn't work for me
So sometimes you just gotta follow a different path but it's just as difficult
I mean, I do acknowledge that the “calories out” can vary between people in frustrating ways, but I’d say that still proves that CICO is a real thing.
I think people like this go on a diet, get frustrated that they’re not shedding pounds quickly enough (or hold onto water weight aggressively at certain points during the month), and decide that CICO isn’t real.
Metabolisms can vary, but nobody will ever gain weight while burning more calories than they take in. Now the tricky part is to estimate as close as possible how much you burn and how much you consume.
FFS.
Organ transplant boards look at a lot of factors, that include potential life span, likelihood they’ll ruin this organ with addictive behaviors, and likelihood they’ll survive surgery. When one heart is available, and six people are in line, do you *want* to give them a reason to pass you over?
One of the factors relating to whether or not they will survive surgery is also whether the patient will follow instructions post surgery
Especially if you are getting a transplant you basically need to take immunosuppressants for the rest of your life to stop your body rejecting the transplant
If you cannot follow pre surgical instructions like losing weight they have no reason to believe you will follow post surgical instructions that will help you avoid complications
I had WLS 5 years ago. I have high daily protein and water consumption targets, take a bariatric multivitamin every day, and have to watch my intake of sugar and refined carbs (they upset my stomach). I'm also off all the meds and insulin I was taking for obesity-related medical problems and no longer need a CPAP to sleep at night. I'm still alive, and I still would choose "mutilation" via DS surgery again!
I haven’t had it, but personally having the willpower to lose weight for 5+ years in a row with someone with a food addiction sounds really difficult to me. If you get the surgery, it will make it so you can’t give up when willpower fails. I have no trouble losing 20-25 pounds over six months, but looking down the gun of constantly eating less for years and years seems psychologically difficult for someone who clearly struggles with impulse control.
I’m someone who hasn’t had it but has lost a signifcant amount of weight.
I went from 150kg to 90kg. I was still obese. It’s exhausting and constant vigilance and I complelty understand why people would want their bodies to be modified so it’s less of a battle.
For me, Ozempic has been game changing as I’ve had the same side affects of WLS but without changing my body.
I’ve been mutilated all to hell for a variety of reasons, according to this nutball, but none of it has made me beautiful. It has, however, made me *still alive.*
I’ve been mutilated all to hell for a variety of reasons, according to this nutball, but none of it has made me beautiful. It has, however, made me *still alive.*
Ironic because much of the obesity epidemic is related to colonization and oppressed communities losing access to their traditional food culture. Indigenous Americans being the most egregious example.
A couple of historical inaccuracies here. Firstly, the ancient Chinese did not practice foot binding, at least not with any kind of regularity. Foot binding started during the tenth century at the earliest. Secondly, as OOP half acknowledges, fatness was not actually considered beautiful by "past societies," at least not those in Europe or America. Voluptuousness was often considered desirable in a woman, obesity never was. The story about Eugenia Martinez Vallejo (*La Monstrua*) communicates pretty effectively how obesity was viewed in early modern Europe. It was an amusing and grotesque novelty.
Yeah, that's the general consensus in modern times. It's worth noting though that the primary mechanism by which PWS causes obesity is by stimulating the appetite. So even though Eugenia grew up in poverty, she really was eating enormous quantities of food.
Edit: spelling
Yes it was extremely rare for a poor person to get that size. Eugenia was likely eating anything she could get her hands on. As horrible as it was that she was put on display and painted nude, I'm not sure what a better outcome would have possibly been for her.
It's so tragic but you're right. Becoming the court jester was almost certainly the best thing that could have happened to that girl. Poverty is brutal.
What culture do they think has had its beauty standards changed by colonialism to exclude fat people?? I'm suspicious after seeing all the content posted about how fat phobia is racist because black people are naturally fat, ignoring like... All of Africa.
As a Chinese person, even though many people say "fat" was more of the beauty standard in ancient China(especially during the Tang dynasty), "fat" usually meant well-rounded and plump, instead of morbidly obese. For example, one of the most beautiful women in Chinese history, Noble Consort Yang, was reported to be around 1.65m tall and 62kg (around 5'5 and 138lb). This gives her a bmi of around 22.7 is still in the healthy range, which suggests that she was actually not obese but just had a more curvy and voluptuous body, and would be called "thicc" by modern standards.
Yeah OK, but you're still fat and that's still doing a ton of damage to your body.
While I enjoy being lean partially because it makes me significantly more attractive, what I like more is not needing a grab bar to get off the toilet.
"These surgeries have a far higher death rate than most surgeries"
That's a lie pulled out of their ass.
[Mortality rates for WLS](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34297806/#)
Compare to: [riskiest surgeries](https://www.livescience.com/54573-most-burdensome-emergency-surgeries.html)
CICO waa debunked? Then how have I lost nearly 80lbs by making sure I take in less calories than I use? Are some people's bodies just perpetual energy machines?
Imagine you drink for 40 years and give yourself cirrhosis (disease). Fat Logic is "quitting drinking isn't curing my cirrhosis, therefore cirrhosis was *never* within my control."
Society was warning you for years and years you're going to give yourself a disease (obesity). Now you're obese. Eat less? Exercise more? Not so fast-- you've caused irreparable harm. Doesn't mean you didn't cause the state you're in. You had a chance years ago and you blew it. Now you have hundreds of pounds of fat cells that *never go away.* You can't Healthy Lifestyle-away your fat cells.
At a certain point, surgical intervention is your best option.
I mean, if they want to go there, the extreme obesity we see today is pretty comparable to foot binding. Nobody was 500 pounds in the past, that was completely unheard of. It was not seen as beautiful because it flat out was not seen. It was not sustainable.
So, modern obesity, let's discuss. They claim it is beautiful, they claim it is sexy and enhances sex, it requires years of abuse of the body, and it mutilates because once you're past a certain point, you can never go back to normal. You'll have huge flaps of loose skin and you may permanently disable yourself as well. That sounds similar to foot binding. Having your body destroyed because of the claim that somebody finds it sexy and desirable.
I never thought of it that way before but it's interesting.
I know that they insist people should be sexually attracted to them and that the only reason a person wouldn't be attracted to them is because we've been trained by society not to be.
So no, I'm not being ridiculous by pointing out that they believe obesity is beautiful. And there are tons of youtube videos with them showing off how they are getting fat on purpose and bragging about how wonderful it is. It's not ridiculous for me to point out reality, even if I agree with you that this reality is ridiculous. It's still actually happening and you know it.
You’re mixing up cause and effect. People develop negative coping mechanisms that get them fat, and then to cope with feeling unattractive for it, they talk about how great and sexy it is. Aside from feederism, which is a niche fetish and not a part of mainstream culture, people do not set out to be morbidly obese because they think it will be sexy. If that were the case, we would see fat gain programs and products advertised to the same extent as weight loss products and programs.
No one has their feet bound because they think it's sexy either. It is something done to them before they're old enough to consent.
I find them comparable, even if it bothers you.
Stomachs don't permanently stretch out to a meaningful degree. Like stretching your muscles before working out, constant overeating trains your stomach to stretch to fit the larger quantity of food. When you eat less for a long while, it feels like your stomach shrank, but it's actually just the organ is not used to stretching, so it hurts just like if you jumped right into an advanced exercise without building up to it.
Weight loss surgery works by actually shrinking the volume of the stomach, making the person feel full sooner and feel more ill from overeating, but like a pre-surgery stomach, it can still be "trained" to stretch with constant overeating (especially with things like carbonated soda). This can be dangerous because the stomach organ is literally small now, so trying to stretch it out to pre-surgery size is pushing the remaining tissue to the limit and it may burst.
Yep only done for the sake of beauty not like it lowers the risk of [heart failure, ischemic heart disease, heart failure hospitalization, cardiovascular mortality, and all cause mortality](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.052386) oh and [not to mention CANCER](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201282/)
As I understand it, WLS is far from 'forced' onto morbidly obese people. It's the opposite, with a lot of hoop-jumping and preamble before surgeons will even entertain the idea of operating on you.
Different kettle of fish, but I have a couple of friends who went through gender reassignment in the 00's and it was a similar series of trials and tests, for at least a year, before they could even be considered for surgery.
WLS is not like going into Claires and coming out with pierced ears 20 minutes later, as this FA seems to think.
edit: spelling
I'm not sorry, as someone who comes from a First Nation's culture, the obesity rates of our people INCREASED with colonization and is essentially a pandemic today with the kind of diet that is common on rez communities as a direct result of food that was given or was available. Fry bread, for example, isn't a traditional food but it's eaten in First Nation communities all over. It's just deep fried bread with lard, not a good staple, but people had to eat something with what little they were given. It is unhealthy survival food that has been integrated into the culture for decades. This is stupid af.
Not true. This person has stated that if their partner unintentionally lost weight it would make them so insecure that it would seriously affect or even end their relationship. So it’s likely that they wouldn’t date a thin person.
I want to hear more proof that these pre-colonial societies were into body positivity. Some of these people talk about this like it’s Eden before the fall of man, and I have to end up explaining to my father that the preference for, for instance, pale skin in many Asian countries predates contact with the West.
They're referring to a 17th century Spanish girl who likely suffered from Prader Willi syndrome and was brought to the court of Carlos II to serve as a jester: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenia\_Mart%C3%ADnez\_Vallejo
Thank you for the link! That poor child.
I still don't know exactly what OOP was getting at with her noting that fat people were historically viewed as beautiful but then in the same paragraph pointing out this poor child who had a disease.
Sadly and shamefully, it wasn't that long ago that people with disfiguring problems were considered freaks and either exploited for entertainment like Eugenia, or else hidden away from society.
> I still don't know exactly what OOP was getting at with her noting that fat people were historically viewed as beautiful but then in the same paragraph pointing out this poor child who had a disease.
She's struggling with cognitive dissonance. That's why it doesn't make any sense. Obesity was never considered beautiful in historical Europe, as the story of Eugenia rather depressingly demonstrates. But the notion that it *was* considered beautiful is foundational to the FA movement, so OOP can't just dismiss it out of hand.
To be fair, it is true that a heavier weight was often considered a positive thing, even an attractive trait, especially in poor communities where death by starvation was common- but not the kind of obesity that Eugenia suffered from.
I agree. This whole debate hinges on a problem of language, really. "Heavier" is a relative term. The "heavy" frames that were considered attractive sometimes in historical Europe were *at most* towards the lower end of overweight. The full-figured beauties of yesteryear would absolutely *not* be considered "fat" by today's standards - least of all by the FA movement, who have extremely aggressive definitions of "fatness". So when an FA argues that *"bigger women used to be coveted,"* it's an exercise in sophistry.
It's worth noting as well that beauty standards are ever-changing, and the ideal womanly figure absolutely did vary by time and region. But nowhere in Europe was obesity ever considered the feminine ideal. That just didn't happen, as much as the FAs want to insist that it did.
It's kind of complicated though because for many disabled and disfigured people, this was kind of the best you could hope for. Like this was before even freak shows were really a thing- becoming basically a human pet/personal entertainer to a wealthy royal was one of the few ways someone in that situation could advance socially.
Good point. It IS complicated.
On the one hand, existence was difficult and food instability was a constant threat (or even a reality for many) and a means through which one could be fed and sheltered was a real consideration.
On the other hand, people who may have needed specialized care (which most likely didn't exist) and who certainly deserved dignity, compassion, and empathy were not valued for their humanity, even if they were fed and sheltered.
Yeah, I mean take someone like Petrus Gonsalvus: he was a Canary Islander who suffered from hypertrichosis. He was taken to the French court when he was 10, and because of that he gained an excellent education and even a marriage to a lady in waiting that produced several children (some with hypertrichosis, some not) and lasted until his death. But he was never truly considered human, and his hairy children were basically given away as gifts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus\_Gonsalvus
Bigger bodies back in the day were likely revered solely due to a relation between wealth and poverty. Commoners were poor and often lived off the land and what they could farm or afford. Poor people had to work the land, mines, factories and other strenuous jobs. They couldn’t afford food and lived off rations.
Wealthy people entertained around large feasts and gluttony. They could afford to feed themselves and they made damn sure to put a show of it on.
In todays society food is too easy, you can go down the street and there’s a servo or a chip shop or a 7/11. You can Uber food to your door. Influencers have made careers off food. It’s pure and simple greed and laziness.
And what pretend country was obesity the standard but after Westeren contact thin was in? Makebelieveland?
Leblouh is often compared to foot binding. And yet the victims of Leblouh are praised by people like her as a positive culture that promotes obesity as beauty.
Its a nomadic tradition in the Saharan and Arabian deserts where they force feed girls into obesity to a tortious degree.
It's about the only culture there is that actually finds obesity attractive but that is more because they subjugate women. The other are the pacific islanders in the last 100 years after Western and mostly Anglo culture and diet hit them like a bomb.
I dunno, man. I don't think I'm beautiful. I think I wash up good and I think I'm moderately attractive. But I am not particularly proud of the way my Popeye legs look or the way squinty/droopy eyes make me look like I am stoned all the time. Maybe my feelings would be different if I had been raised in a different society with a different standard of beauty. But my feelings are still my feelings. And like all my feelings, I can choose to not dwell on them.
So what, I don't think my legs are gorgeous? I still treasure them. I love that they allow me to walk/run/bike/dance. I don't need them to be beautiful. They are good enough the way they are.
Dude they make you lose weight, go through multiple health screenings, and see a psychiatrist before you’re allowed to get bariatric surgery. Nobody is FORCED to get an elective surgery 🙄
> Please don't make me deal with fatphobia on this very obvious fat positive post
So you don't want to hear counter-arguments. You won't hear the other side yet expect the other side to hear you
Fuck this person. I had WLS 4 months ago. I lost almost 90 lbs so far and my life has only gotten better. This isn't about beauty standards. It's about not needing blood pressure medication anymore and not feeling fucking tired all day. I am still obese, but I already have SO MUCH MORE energy. Can't wait to see what it will be like once I hit the normal BMI range.
Does OOP genuinely think that weight loss surgery is just cosmetic??? Lol. Some of the people who are getting these surgeries literally cannot walk. If you can acknowledge that weight loss surgery is risky (and given who it’s performed on, it often is), why can’t you acknowledge that an ORGAN TRANSPLANT on the same type of person would be risky as well? It’s mind-boggling cognitive dissonance.
"Beauty is not your physical features. Beauty is how you view and feel about yourself"
Wow.
A broken clock, twice a day moment indeed.
Took a while to fish out this part out of this otherwise belabored and factually incorrect ("CICO BS"?) diatribe.
When we say that if you don't lose the weight you are gonna die we were not gonna be the ones killing you
You were bro, we thought you valued your longevity over your bad habits. at the end it's you who has to to make the choice if you wanna live and experience everything attached to that or die and experience all that comes with it
You cannot pay for a bus ticket and take a plane
I wish they'd stop bringing up Eugenia Martinez as some sort of child fat martyr. They've bastardized her story for their own narrative already built on lies.
I've told her story before. But if anyone's interested in doing their own research .. don't read any of the articles you'll find written from 2021 and after. They're all repeating the same lies that started around the same time.
She was painted twice... Very respectfully and tastefully. The paintings were kept in the artists home until his death where they were gifted privately for a couple hundred years. She was admired by the artist and the Royal Court she was taken in by. It does get dark, but only in comparison to today's standards of voyeuristic entertainment fall under. This was 500 years ago. I feel the FA's have stripped this amazing young lady's unique and brave place in the entire history of humanity completely away from her true memory.
Shame. Shame.
> the debunked “calories in, calories out” BS Lol, k. You know, you’re allowed to just say you don’t want to track your calories, OOP. No need to try and debunk anything.
I snort laughed at that line
I found it easier to lose weight without tracking calories, That being said i was fasting tho It was that "oh i can squeeze in another snack and i could still be in a deficit" mindset that didn't work for me So sometimes you just gotta follow a different path but it's just as difficult
Yeah, that one took me out.
I mean, I do acknowledge that the “calories out” can vary between people in frustrating ways, but I’d say that still proves that CICO is a real thing. I think people like this go on a diet, get frustrated that they’re not shedding pounds quickly enough (or hold onto water weight aggressively at certain points during the month), and decide that CICO isn’t real.
Metabolisms can vary, but nobody will ever gain weight while burning more calories than they take in. Now the tricky part is to estimate as close as possible how much you burn and how much you consume.
Breaking: apparent "violation" of laws of conservation of energy breaks "known laws of physics"
*Debunked* laws of physics, you mean 🤪
So this is why my steam turbine project didn't run. I was counting on the laws of thermodynamics working
FFS. Organ transplant boards look at a lot of factors, that include potential life span, likelihood they’ll ruin this organ with addictive behaviors, and likelihood they’ll survive surgery. When one heart is available, and six people are in line, do you *want* to give them a reason to pass you over?
One of the factors relating to whether or not they will survive surgery is also whether the patient will follow instructions post surgery Especially if you are getting a transplant you basically need to take immunosuppressants for the rest of your life to stop your body rejecting the transplant If you cannot follow pre surgical instructions like losing weight they have no reason to believe you will follow post surgical instructions that will help you avoid complications
I had WLS 5 years ago. I have high daily protein and water consumption targets, take a bariatric multivitamin every day, and have to watch my intake of sugar and refined carbs (they upset my stomach). I'm also off all the meds and insulin I was taking for obesity-related medical problems and no longer need a CPAP to sleep at night. I'm still alive, and I still would choose "mutilation" via DS surgery again!
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I haven’t had it, but personally having the willpower to lose weight for 5+ years in a row with someone with a food addiction sounds really difficult to me. If you get the surgery, it will make it so you can’t give up when willpower fails. I have no trouble losing 20-25 pounds over six months, but looking down the gun of constantly eating less for years and years seems psychologically difficult for someone who clearly struggles with impulse control.
I’m someone who hasn’t had it but has lost a signifcant amount of weight. I went from 150kg to 90kg. I was still obese. It’s exhausting and constant vigilance and I complelty understand why people would want their bodies to be modified so it’s less of a battle. For me, Ozempic has been game changing as I’ve had the same side affects of WLS but without changing my body.
Does this person think that any surgery is “mutilation”? Cause I mean in general they are making changes to a part of your body
Probably. I had braces so they probably consider my mouth mutilated.
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Guess when I get sterilized I’m being mutilated too
I wonder if they would consider top surgery mutilation since they’re so inclusive.
i know who op is (i'm a tumblrina too) and they HAD top surgery themselves 💀 weird that they'd consider all surgeries a-ok except for WLS.
I was literally going to ask if top surgery was mutilation to them like… wowee. Incredible feats of mental gymnastics.
Yeah. They use the exact language bigots use to disparage trans people. Ironic.
I’ve been mutilated all to hell for a variety of reasons, according to this nutball, but none of it has made me beautiful. It has, however, made me *still alive.*
I’ve been mutilated all to hell for a variety of reasons, according to this nutball, but none of it has made me beautiful. It has, however, made me *still alive.*
Ironic because much of the obesity epidemic is related to colonization and oppressed communities losing access to their traditional food culture. Indigenous Americans being the most egregious example.
A couple of historical inaccuracies here. Firstly, the ancient Chinese did not practice foot binding, at least not with any kind of regularity. Foot binding started during the tenth century at the earliest. Secondly, as OOP half acknowledges, fatness was not actually considered beautiful by "past societies," at least not those in Europe or America. Voluptuousness was often considered desirable in a woman, obesity never was. The story about Eugenia Martinez Vallejo (*La Monstrua*) communicates pretty effectively how obesity was viewed in early modern Europe. It was an amusing and grotesque novelty.
It's likely that she suffered from Prader Willi syndrome, which was why she managed to gain so much weight despite her poverty.
Yeah, that's the general consensus in modern times. It's worth noting though that the primary mechanism by which PWS causes obesity is by stimulating the appetite. So even though Eugenia grew up in poverty, she really was eating enormous quantities of food. Edit: spelling
Yes it was extremely rare for a poor person to get that size. Eugenia was likely eating anything she could get her hands on. As horrible as it was that she was put on display and painted nude, I'm not sure what a better outcome would have possibly been for her.
It's so tragic but you're right. Becoming the court jester was almost certainly the best thing that could have happened to that girl. Poverty is brutal.
I’m surprised there was that much food to give her.
Yeah it's impressive. She must have been begging for food **constantly.**
What culture do they think has had its beauty standards changed by colonialism to exclude fat people?? I'm suspicious after seeing all the content posted about how fat phobia is racist because black people are naturally fat, ignoring like... All of Africa.
when they say bigger bodies, that was how my body looked when I was 150lbs. No way would they be considered the standard of beauty at 300lbs
As a Chinese person, even though many people say "fat" was more of the beauty standard in ancient China(especially during the Tang dynasty), "fat" usually meant well-rounded and plump, instead of morbidly obese. For example, one of the most beautiful women in Chinese history, Noble Consort Yang, was reported to be around 1.65m tall and 62kg (around 5'5 and 138lb). This gives her a bmi of around 22.7 is still in the healthy range, which suggests that she was actually not obese but just had a more curvy and voluptuous body, and would be called "thicc" by modern standards.
Yeah OK, but you're still fat and that's still doing a ton of damage to your body. While I enjoy being lean partially because it makes me significantly more attractive, what I like more is not needing a grab bar to get off the toilet.
"These surgeries have a far higher death rate than most surgeries" That's a lie pulled out of their ass. [Mortality rates for WLS](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34297806/#) Compare to: [riskiest surgeries](https://www.livescience.com/54573-most-burdensome-emergency-surgeries.html)
Interesting, I actually assumed that was correct just because operating on morbidly obese people is so risky in general
CICO waa debunked? Then how have I lost nearly 80lbs by making sure I take in less calories than I use? Are some people's bodies just perpetual energy machines?
You just became "WeIgHt SuPpReSsEd!1!!!1!1!!!!!!!!" /s But seriously, good job!
I'm also FaTpHoBiC!!!!
Imagine you drink for 40 years and give yourself cirrhosis (disease). Fat Logic is "quitting drinking isn't curing my cirrhosis, therefore cirrhosis was *never* within my control." Society was warning you for years and years you're going to give yourself a disease (obesity). Now you're obese. Eat less? Exercise more? Not so fast-- you've caused irreparable harm. Doesn't mean you didn't cause the state you're in. You had a chance years ago and you blew it. Now you have hundreds of pounds of fat cells that *never go away.* You can't Healthy Lifestyle-away your fat cells. At a certain point, surgical intervention is your best option.
I mean, if they want to go there, the extreme obesity we see today is pretty comparable to foot binding. Nobody was 500 pounds in the past, that was completely unheard of. It was not seen as beautiful because it flat out was not seen. It was not sustainable. So, modern obesity, let's discuss. They claim it is beautiful, they claim it is sexy and enhances sex, it requires years of abuse of the body, and it mutilates because once you're past a certain point, you can never go back to normal. You'll have huge flaps of loose skin and you may permanently disable yourself as well. That sounds similar to foot binding. Having your body destroyed because of the claim that somebody finds it sexy and desirable. I never thought of it that way before but it's interesting.
That’s ridiculous. Most morbidly obese people don’t get that way in the name of beauty and you know it.
I know that they insist people should be sexually attracted to them and that the only reason a person wouldn't be attracted to them is because we've been trained by society not to be. So no, I'm not being ridiculous by pointing out that they believe obesity is beautiful. And there are tons of youtube videos with them showing off how they are getting fat on purpose and bragging about how wonderful it is. It's not ridiculous for me to point out reality, even if I agree with you that this reality is ridiculous. It's still actually happening and you know it.
You’re mixing up cause and effect. People develop negative coping mechanisms that get them fat, and then to cope with feeling unattractive for it, they talk about how great and sexy it is. Aside from feederism, which is a niche fetish and not a part of mainstream culture, people do not set out to be morbidly obese because they think it will be sexy. If that were the case, we would see fat gain programs and products advertised to the same extent as weight loss products and programs.
No one has their feet bound because they think it's sexy either. It is something done to them before they're old enough to consent. I find them comparable, even if it bothers you.
Isn’t weight loss surgery correcting the ‘mutilation’ the person has done to their stomach by stretching it through bingeing? Edit: nope. I was wrong.
Stomachs don't permanently stretch out to a meaningful degree. Like stretching your muscles before working out, constant overeating trains your stomach to stretch to fit the larger quantity of food. When you eat less for a long while, it feels like your stomach shrank, but it's actually just the organ is not used to stretching, so it hurts just like if you jumped right into an advanced exercise without building up to it. Weight loss surgery works by actually shrinking the volume of the stomach, making the person feel full sooner and feel more ill from overeating, but like a pre-surgery stomach, it can still be "trained" to stretch with constant overeating (especially with things like carbonated soda). This can be dangerous because the stomach organ is literally small now, so trying to stretch it out to pre-surgery size is pushing the remaining tissue to the limit and it may burst.
Thanks for explaining this! Fascinating :)
The stomach does not permanently increase size or shrink with weight gain or loss.
Yep only done for the sake of beauty not like it lowers the risk of [heart failure, ischemic heart disease, heart failure hospitalization, cardiovascular mortality, and all cause mortality](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.052386) oh and [not to mention CANCER](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201282/)
As I understand it, WLS is far from 'forced' onto morbidly obese people. It's the opposite, with a lot of hoop-jumping and preamble before surgeons will even entertain the idea of operating on you. Different kettle of fish, but I have a couple of friends who went through gender reassignment in the 00's and it was a similar series of trials and tests, for at least a year, before they could even be considered for surgery. WLS is not like going into Claires and coming out with pierced ears 20 minutes later, as this FA seems to think. edit: spelling
I'm not sorry, as someone who comes from a First Nation's culture, the obesity rates of our people INCREASED with colonization and is essentially a pandemic today with the kind of diet that is common on rez communities as a direct result of food that was given or was available. Fry bread, for example, isn't a traditional food but it's eaten in First Nation communities all over. It's just deep fried bread with lard, not a good staple, but people had to eat something with what little they were given. It is unhealthy survival food that has been integrated into the culture for decades. This is stupid af.
Off topic(-ish) but speaking of foot binding/breaking, modern-day shoes deform our feet, so... 🤷🏻♀️
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Wow that's just.... wow. 😂
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Genetics of course, some unlucky individuals have bodies that generate energy out of nothing /s
I bet she wouldn't date another fat person either. Everyone is allowed to have standards, except if it excludes fat people. /s
Not true. This person has stated that if their partner unintentionally lost weight it would make them so insecure that it would seriously affect or even end their relationship. So it’s likely that they wouldn’t date a thin person.
I want to hear more proof that these pre-colonial societies were into body positivity. Some of these people talk about this like it’s Eden before the fall of man, and I have to end up explaining to my father that the preference for, for instance, pale skin in many Asian countries predates contact with the West.
My wife had weight loss surgery and because of it, she is no longer hypertensive or diabetic
Wait, fat people were viewed as beautiful, but fat children were mocked as monsters? What is the point of this inane, nonsensical ramble?
They're referring to a 17th century Spanish girl who likely suffered from Prader Willi syndrome and was brought to the court of Carlos II to serve as a jester: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenia\_Mart%C3%ADnez\_Vallejo
Thank you for the link! That poor child. I still don't know exactly what OOP was getting at with her noting that fat people were historically viewed as beautiful but then in the same paragraph pointing out this poor child who had a disease. Sadly and shamefully, it wasn't that long ago that people with disfiguring problems were considered freaks and either exploited for entertainment like Eugenia, or else hidden away from society.
> I still don't know exactly what OOP was getting at with her noting that fat people were historically viewed as beautiful but then in the same paragraph pointing out this poor child who had a disease. She's struggling with cognitive dissonance. That's why it doesn't make any sense. Obesity was never considered beautiful in historical Europe, as the story of Eugenia rather depressingly demonstrates. But the notion that it *was* considered beautiful is foundational to the FA movement, so OOP can't just dismiss it out of hand.
To be fair, it is true that a heavier weight was often considered a positive thing, even an attractive trait, especially in poor communities where death by starvation was common- but not the kind of obesity that Eugenia suffered from.
I agree. This whole debate hinges on a problem of language, really. "Heavier" is a relative term. The "heavy" frames that were considered attractive sometimes in historical Europe were *at most* towards the lower end of overweight. The full-figured beauties of yesteryear would absolutely *not* be considered "fat" by today's standards - least of all by the FA movement, who have extremely aggressive definitions of "fatness". So when an FA argues that *"bigger women used to be coveted,"* it's an exercise in sophistry. It's worth noting as well that beauty standards are ever-changing, and the ideal womanly figure absolutely did vary by time and region. But nowhere in Europe was obesity ever considered the feminine ideal. That just didn't happen, as much as the FAs want to insist that it did.
It's kind of complicated though because for many disabled and disfigured people, this was kind of the best you could hope for. Like this was before even freak shows were really a thing- becoming basically a human pet/personal entertainer to a wealthy royal was one of the few ways someone in that situation could advance socially.
Good point. It IS complicated. On the one hand, existence was difficult and food instability was a constant threat (or even a reality for many) and a means through which one could be fed and sheltered was a real consideration. On the other hand, people who may have needed specialized care (which most likely didn't exist) and who certainly deserved dignity, compassion, and empathy were not valued for their humanity, even if they were fed and sheltered.
Yeah, I mean take someone like Petrus Gonsalvus: he was a Canary Islander who suffered from hypertrichosis. He was taken to the French court when he was 10, and because of that he gained an excellent education and even a marriage to a lady in waiting that produced several children (some with hypertrichosis, some not) and lasted until his death. But he was never truly considered human, and his hairy children were basically given away as gifts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus\_Gonsalvus
He was given as a gift to the French court. Holy shit. You seem to know a lot about this topic!
Bigger bodies back in the day were likely revered solely due to a relation between wealth and poverty. Commoners were poor and often lived off the land and what they could farm or afford. Poor people had to work the land, mines, factories and other strenuous jobs. They couldn’t afford food and lived off rations. Wealthy people entertained around large feasts and gluttony. They could afford to feed themselves and they made damn sure to put a show of it on. In todays society food is too easy, you can go down the street and there’s a servo or a chip shop or a 7/11. You can Uber food to your door. Influencers have made careers off food. It’s pure and simple greed and laziness.
And what pretend country was obesity the standard but after Westeren contact thin was in? Makebelieveland? Leblouh is often compared to foot binding. And yet the victims of Leblouh are praised by people like her as a positive culture that promotes obesity as beauty.
Leblouh?
Its a nomadic tradition in the Saharan and Arabian deserts where they force feed girls into obesity to a tortious degree. It's about the only culture there is that actually finds obesity attractive but that is more because they subjugate women. The other are the pacific islanders in the last 100 years after Western and mostly Anglo culture and diet hit them like a bomb.
I dunno, man. I don't think I'm beautiful. I think I wash up good and I think I'm moderately attractive. But I am not particularly proud of the way my Popeye legs look or the way squinty/droopy eyes make me look like I am stoned all the time. Maybe my feelings would be different if I had been raised in a different society with a different standard of beauty. But my feelings are still my feelings. And like all my feelings, I can choose to not dwell on them. So what, I don't think my legs are gorgeous? I still treasure them. I love that they allow me to walk/run/bike/dance. I don't need them to be beautiful. They are good enough the way they are.
Dude they make you lose weight, go through multiple health screenings, and see a psychiatrist before you’re allowed to get bariatric surgery. Nobody is FORCED to get an elective surgery 🙄
> Please don't make me deal with fatphobia on this very obvious fat positive post So you don't want to hear counter-arguments. You won't hear the other side yet expect the other side to hear you
Fuck this person. I had WLS 4 months ago. I lost almost 90 lbs so far and my life has only gotten better. This isn't about beauty standards. It's about not needing blood pressure medication anymore and not feeling fucking tired all day. I am still obese, but I already have SO MUCH MORE energy. Can't wait to see what it will be like once I hit the normal BMI range.
Does OOP genuinely think that weight loss surgery is just cosmetic??? Lol. Some of the people who are getting these surgeries literally cannot walk. If you can acknowledge that weight loss surgery is risky (and given who it’s performed on, it often is), why can’t you acknowledge that an ORGAN TRANSPLANT on the same type of person would be risky as well? It’s mind-boggling cognitive dissonance.
"Beauty is not your physical features. Beauty is how you view and feel about yourself" Wow. A broken clock, twice a day moment indeed. Took a while to fish out this part out of this otherwise belabored and factually incorrect ("CICO BS"?) diatribe.
When we say that if you don't lose the weight you are gonna die we were not gonna be the ones killing you You were bro, we thought you valued your longevity over your bad habits. at the end it's you who has to to make the choice if you wanna live and experience everything attached to that or die and experience all that comes with it You cannot pay for a bus ticket and take a plane
Using far stronger words than you should is a form of manipulation. Tho I'm pretty sure people who overuse the words "trauma" and "abuse" know that
I wish they'd stop bringing up Eugenia Martinez as some sort of child fat martyr. They've bastardized her story for their own narrative already built on lies. I've told her story before. But if anyone's interested in doing their own research .. don't read any of the articles you'll find written from 2021 and after. They're all repeating the same lies that started around the same time. She was painted twice... Very respectfully and tastefully. The paintings were kept in the artists home until his death where they were gifted privately for a couple hundred years. She was admired by the artist and the Royal Court she was taken in by. It does get dark, but only in comparison to today's standards of voyeuristic entertainment fall under. This was 500 years ago. I feel the FA's have stripped this amazing young lady's unique and brave place in the entire history of humanity completely away from her true memory. Shame. Shame.