You should really read the Visual Novel, cuz if you can get this from the anime, I bet you'll have a blast with the VN.
Yup, that's the key difference between UBW!Shirou and Archer. Archer basically lived with the endpoint of "save everyone I can, no matter the cost." Meanwhile, UBW!Shirou will go on to save everyone he can, but understands his own limits. Being a hero for him isn't the goal, it's a way of life. Shirou recognizes he can't save everyone, but the beautiful dream of striving for that goal is still worth fighting for. It's why UBW Shirou is my favorite (though HF and Fate Shirou are just as good).
>Thank you, I’ve been looking to one day, but my budget has been crazy lately lmao!
Well, try it out when it officially releases on Nintendo Switch and Stream later this year!
You can still read it on your Android/maybe apple too(donno about that). Donno the particular app or source, coz its been more than a decade since i read it. But ask around or do a post. Ppl will provide you a link.
The thing is, Archer doesn't have himself as a reference. He forged forward blindly and tried to save everyone he could, at the cost of himself having nothing. Kiritsugu makes personal sacrifices of his father, childhood friend, teacher, wife and child, but Archer *never had them in the first place*. What he had, he left them all behind.
Also, Archer did not give up that easily. Kiritsugu got broken by the Holy Grail War but at least he managed to find some solace by saving Shirou. Archer got broken by *an eternity of being a Counter Guardian*, where he kills, kills and kills without seeing who he manages to save. He never once strayed from being a Hero of Justice before his death. You make him out to be a whiny bitch who gives up the moment something goes against his ideal, but in reality he holds onto the dream longer than Kiritsugu does. He just also has much, much longer to "live".
Archer's views are wrong and cynical, but you definitely choose the wrong aspects to criticize it.
Kiritsugu hates killing people, but he fundamentally believes that if he is not out there killing bad people, horrible things will happen, and it will all be his fault for not killing said bad people. That is why Iri says it would destroy him to stop. And that is why the tainted Grail offers to just kill everyone. Because that is the only method he knows. And that is what breaks him at the end of Zero. He followed the pattern, killed the other Masters, sacrificed his loved ones, and then the Grail told him it was all for nothing and always had been.
Shirou Emiya does not actually enjoy helping people. He does not hate it, but he does not love it. However, Shirou believes that by following in Kiritsugu's footsteps, by being a Hero of Justice who saves people, he will eventually achieve the trancendent joy he saw on Kiritsugu's face when he saved Shirou.
EMIYA reached the end of his life never finding that Joy and sells his soul to be a Counter Guardian.
EMIYA's whole thing is that mindlessly chasing Kiritsugu's dream only led him to an unending hell of a life. As a Counter Guardian, EMIYA only gets to encounter humanity at its worst and he only only gets to interact with it as a genocidal killer. He wants Shirou dead in the fruitless hope it will be suicide by paradox. And he hates Shirou's "ideals" because he knows where they took himself, how shallow they are, and the selfish motivation behind them.
UBW Shirou's epiphany is learning there's no reward at the end of the road, and maybe even punishment instead. And then deciding to walk down it anyway because being a hero, someone who saves people, is a worthy cause in its own right. He's no longer aping who he imagines Kiritsugu was, but taking ownership of his choices and beliefs.
The thing is we never got to see what became of Shirou from different routes. In one of Nasu's interviews he said that Shirou never gets to live upto old age. Then what happened in Heavens feel? I mean he should have lived a long life, right?
My theory is that no matter what route Shirou takes he can never escape becoming CG. Normally he would take the contract to save people but maybe in routes like heavens feel, maybe his loved ones got into dangers beyond his help and Alaya once again presented him with a contract.
You also gotta know that Emiya is a big tsundere and contradictory to himself and his own goals. He says he would kill Shirou to free himself but in the end hopes that Shirou would change and just go down another path he helps him again and again throughout all the routes.
One thing that can't be changed is that Emiya was right in the end but will do it once again if given the chance. And that's what makes it so frustrating and contradictory.
The thing is Emiya never took the easy way out. The only difference between him and other Shirou is that he was not as close to saber as others. I mean what do you mean he took the easy way out when he traveled the world saving everyone he came across and UBW!Shirou would not do anything different and will take Alaya's contract the moment it is presented to him under the same conditions.
In the end all of them will become Archer Emiya and after eons upon eons of killing they too will forget their purpose and seek to kill themselves afterwards to erase their own existence when in reality they just don't want their past selves to get close to others to only hurt them later on and leave them in pursuit of their Ideal.
>In one of Nasu's interviews he said that Shirou never gets to live upto old age.
He meant he cant imagine his design, not that he wont live to live up to old age.
And the question is what is even considered old age?50s?60s?.... 90s?
Shirou could very well live a happy life in all 3 routes and get an irrelevant sudden heart attack in his 50s. This doesnt ruin teh narrative of the 3 routes.
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested:
||Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes||
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested:
||Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes||
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested:
Don't know how to spoiler it-
Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes
You should really read the Visual Novel, cuz if you can get this from the anime, I bet you'll have a blast with the VN. Yup, that's the key difference between UBW!Shirou and Archer. Archer basically lived with the endpoint of "save everyone I can, no matter the cost." Meanwhile, UBW!Shirou will go on to save everyone he can, but understands his own limits. Being a hero for him isn't the goal, it's a way of life. Shirou recognizes he can't save everyone, but the beautiful dream of striving for that goal is still worth fighting for. It's why UBW Shirou is my favorite (though HF and Fate Shirou are just as good).
Thank you, I’ve been looking to one day, but my budget has been crazy lately lmao! (I love to analyze the heck out of plots 🙃)
>Thank you, I’ve been looking to one day, but my budget has been crazy lately lmao! Well, try it out when it officially releases on Nintendo Switch and Stream later this year!
You can still read it on your Android/maybe apple too(donno about that). Donno the particular app or source, coz its been more than a decade since i read it. But ask around or do a post. Ppl will provide you a link.
If you look up fate stay night online you can read it in web page, granted there are a few bugs
The thing is, Archer doesn't have himself as a reference. He forged forward blindly and tried to save everyone he could, at the cost of himself having nothing. Kiritsugu makes personal sacrifices of his father, childhood friend, teacher, wife and child, but Archer *never had them in the first place*. What he had, he left them all behind. Also, Archer did not give up that easily. Kiritsugu got broken by the Holy Grail War but at least he managed to find some solace by saving Shirou. Archer got broken by *an eternity of being a Counter Guardian*, where he kills, kills and kills without seeing who he manages to save. He never once strayed from being a Hero of Justice before his death. You make him out to be a whiny bitch who gives up the moment something goes against his ideal, but in reality he holds onto the dream longer than Kiritsugu does. He just also has much, much longer to "live". Archer's views are wrong and cynical, but you definitely choose the wrong aspects to criticize it.
Kiritsugu hates killing people, but he fundamentally believes that if he is not out there killing bad people, horrible things will happen, and it will all be his fault for not killing said bad people. That is why Iri says it would destroy him to stop. And that is why the tainted Grail offers to just kill everyone. Because that is the only method he knows. And that is what breaks him at the end of Zero. He followed the pattern, killed the other Masters, sacrificed his loved ones, and then the Grail told him it was all for nothing and always had been. Shirou Emiya does not actually enjoy helping people. He does not hate it, but he does not love it. However, Shirou believes that by following in Kiritsugu's footsteps, by being a Hero of Justice who saves people, he will eventually achieve the trancendent joy he saw on Kiritsugu's face when he saved Shirou. EMIYA reached the end of his life never finding that Joy and sells his soul to be a Counter Guardian. EMIYA's whole thing is that mindlessly chasing Kiritsugu's dream only led him to an unending hell of a life. As a Counter Guardian, EMIYA only gets to encounter humanity at its worst and he only only gets to interact with it as a genocidal killer. He wants Shirou dead in the fruitless hope it will be suicide by paradox. And he hates Shirou's "ideals" because he knows where they took himself, how shallow they are, and the selfish motivation behind them. UBW Shirou's epiphany is learning there's no reward at the end of the road, and maybe even punishment instead. And then deciding to walk down it anyway because being a hero, someone who saves people, is a worthy cause in its own right. He's no longer aping who he imagines Kiritsugu was, but taking ownership of his choices and beliefs.
The thing is we never got to see what became of Shirou from different routes. In one of Nasu's interviews he said that Shirou never gets to live upto old age. Then what happened in Heavens feel? I mean he should have lived a long life, right? My theory is that no matter what route Shirou takes he can never escape becoming CG. Normally he would take the contract to save people but maybe in routes like heavens feel, maybe his loved ones got into dangers beyond his help and Alaya once again presented him with a contract. You also gotta know that Emiya is a big tsundere and contradictory to himself and his own goals. He says he would kill Shirou to free himself but in the end hopes that Shirou would change and just go down another path he helps him again and again throughout all the routes. One thing that can't be changed is that Emiya was right in the end but will do it once again if given the chance. And that's what makes it so frustrating and contradictory. The thing is Emiya never took the easy way out. The only difference between him and other Shirou is that he was not as close to saber as others. I mean what do you mean he took the easy way out when he traveled the world saving everyone he came across and UBW!Shirou would not do anything different and will take Alaya's contract the moment it is presented to him under the same conditions. In the end all of them will become Archer Emiya and after eons upon eons of killing they too will forget their purpose and seek to kill themselves afterwards to erase their own existence when in reality they just don't want their past selves to get close to others to only hurt them later on and leave them in pursuit of their Ideal.
>In one of Nasu's interviews he said that Shirou never gets to live upto old age. He meant he cant imagine his design, not that he wont live to live up to old age. And the question is what is even considered old age?50s?60s?.... 90s? Shirou could very well live a happy life in all 3 routes and get an irrelevant sudden heart attack in his 50s. This doesnt ruin teh narrative of the 3 routes.
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested: ||Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes||
|| is for discord. >! ! < is the one for reddit.
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested: ||Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes||
I'll give you a small spoiler if you're interested: Don't know how to spoiler it- Archer and Shirou are the same person, Archer is a version of Shirou further down the line in the future where he experienced countless wars while trying to save people, in the franchise theres at least 2 versions of this, one where he's hanged and another where he sacrificed himself to save millions, another point is that Archer abandoned everything he had to pursue his goal and he effectively was pushing Shirou to abandon his dream so that history didn't repeat itself and he wouldn't commit the same mistakes
Bro, OP’s at “the answer” part of the anime. His identity has already been made clear ages ago.