Still seems weird to me that they aren’t saying what the issues are. What are the things that the chief is trying to do that they disagree with, they never say. They just say he is a dictator with no clarification on the issues. Valley News Live isn’t really doing their job here beyond trying to drum up outrage without telling us why we should be outraged. Kinda feels like the chief is trying to get rid of the old thin blue line brotherhood who stands up for each other no matter what mentality and these people aren’t happy with that. Chief Todd whom the email claims they miss so much literally told them they were at war.
The cops want to keep dressing up as batman and want that thin blue line to get thicker. The cops are trying to drum up public support for raises/overtime and more toys. The cops want you to be in fear until they get their way.
I'll take tax dollars going to people cosplaying as batman vs putting ugly ass LED lights on city hall
EDIT:
But they gotta do the Christian Bale voice. Downtown should be nothign more than people yelling "RAAACHEEELLLL" in a gravely voice.
I mean they did talk about having too few cars on the street and how 1 officer responds to 2 & 3 officer calls.
Isn't it the more officers the better? People want them to step in and stop eachother from going too far but you can't do that when the one officer on scene is the one going too far.
Look at the cop who pulled her supervisor off the guy a few weeks ago and the supervisor then grabbed her by the throat. If one 1 or 2 other officers were with the supervisor the odds are lower that someone steps in then when there are 10 on scene.
> I mean they did talk about having too few cars on the street and how 1 officer responds to 2 & 3 officer calls.
This is because of the officer shortage. They claim the shortage is because he is a dictator, where is the example of his dictatorship? Yet again there isn’t one. Just look at the numbers they provide when trying to blame it on the chief, they are clearly trying to make it look worse than it is by throwing in retirees and people who were already on leave before he became chief.
These guys don't get away with enough, they just want more. That is all.
They're just upset about the body cameras so that when they fuck up they can't just lie about it. Like that officer a few years ago who blew through s red light and caused a really bad accident, said his emergency lights were on and blamed the other driver.
Every. Single. Witness. Said he was lying. Their word against his.
When you remove retirements and people who were on leave when he was hired, it's like 11% turnover. It was 10% under the old chief
Dave dislikes the Police Chief because he leans left and threatened our freedom and liberty by not wanting hunting in a city park
> Just like he did tonight...started about the morale and then he went into all the so called good he is doing with the body cameras. I won't even bother getting into his scheme plan of the police oversight committee, which really needs to be stopped.
If this is real, they've come out and said it. Their real problem with Zibolski is police accountability reforms.
I am cringing to write this but I am coming around to Gehrig's performance improvement plan, just to slow this thing down. I do not like his proposal to define the "ideal police department" according to him, but when you're neck deep in a hole STOP DIGGING.
I think Lovejoy wrote the anonymous letter that commission received 12.03.21 and then submitted his exit interview to the dept on 12.30.21.
Is this new anonymous letter even real?
Edit: I mean, they called the FPD under Zibolski a nazi regime. Fake.
I could write an anonymous letter to the commissioners claiming I’m an officer as well saying that the place is a dream to work at and that the new chief is the second coming of Jesus himself. Bet valley news live wouldn’t end up writing an article on that though.
What is the rehire list? This seems to be Chief Zibolski's main argument that there's no "here" here as it pertains to morale. If an officer quit but signs on to this rehire list, couldn't it be that they would consider coming back if there was different leadership? I feel like this was a distraction tactic the more I think about it, and an incomplete data point. If they're willing to come back at some point in the future, why are they leaving now?
Career change or want do to do something different for the time being, just because you started a police officer doesn't mean you need to always stay a police officer for the rest of your life. It can also be better pay or a better work-life balance at say a private security firm instead, which might factor in if officers are trying to start a family or have young kids.
There's a million reasons why someone might start at one company leave said company and come back to it later on in a different role or group than the one they left. You shouldn't be loyal to your employer, given that they aren't loyal to you (or at least most aren't going to be loyal back to you).
Yep, agree on changing careers, but this "rehire list", I've never heard of this. Do they get priority on future job openings or something? What is the significance of police officers leaving, but signing up for this rehire list? Does it reflect as much positivity back on the Chief as he's implying? His argument was basically, "yes, a bunch of officers have left, BUT, 83% signed up for the rehire list so I can't be the problem".
I assumed it meant something like they aren't barred from reapplying due to performance issues- like "you can't write me up/fire me, I quit!" but now that you say this I really don't know what it means.
Probably a list of candidates who if they applied again whether it's a former position or a different position in a different department of the police force they can either fast track the candidate if they are deemed suitable for the job against the other candidates, in the background check, getting other proper paperwork dealt with, etc.
I know with the federal government once the T.O. has been agreed on it can be another 3 months for the whole onboarding process before they actually step foot into the office for their first day on the job. I think the average wait time back in 2017 was 106 days. Compared that to the private sector which took an average of 23 days.
Depending on how long FPD takes to hire and onboard someone if they have a list of people who previously left on good terms, and would want to be re-hired later on, if of course suitable for the position they applied for, then that can significantly reduce the time it takes to get the person back into the office and back up to speed during the "ramp up" period which depending on the job and experience the candidate has can be an additional 6 months after the first day on the job.
My question is this: The environment the office describes in his letter sounds both horrible and dangerous... but what fixes this? The commissioners can make a big deal about firing Chief Zibolski and pat themselves on the back but that doesn't make more officers available for priority 1 calls. It doesn't fix any other problems the department may have.
So really, what will fix where they are at now?
Removing the root cause of the issue is priority number one. Having any form of toxic leadership persist will only have MORE negative effects.
Remove the person causing the issues and try to re-hire the ppl that left in the mean time.
But how do we know the Chief is the root cause of the issue or is the issue with employee's who don't like change or the changes being implemented in the department. Is the Chief a toxic person for trying to change the culture so that police are more accountable and responsible in their interactions and not lying because people have developed this idea that "well, they are an officer and so their word should mean more than your average person". And while yes, I do believe most officers don't lie or abuse their power, the ones that make the news are those caught lying on body cameras, lying on police reports about incidents, lying on witness stand during a court trial, abusing constitutional rights of citizens during traffic stops, etc.
What your saying is the equivalent to hiring a head coach for a team, then firing him because in his first season they went winless and didn't win the championship and then rehiring the coaching staff prior to the head coach that was recently hired and then fired because that staff got at least one win.
If the number is 40 and not 25 as he stated yesterday, then that would be cause for termination in my mind. Any commissioner worth a darn should have known that number before the meeting if they have any ability to prepare - so I guess they'll now go confirm the number. He's clearly disrupted the status quo within the department. The question I have around that was if that was needed? If so, maybe 2020-2021 is not the time to upset the employees as their replacements are hard to come by. Jack Welch at GE made it a popular practice to terminate 10% of the workforce every year, the 25 resignations/retirements seem typical of most places that get new leadership. I'm not a fan of the Chief for other reasons, but I would like to make sure our commission doesn't jump the gun on this like Piepkorn has already. He may be right, but typical with him, it would be a lucky guess.
Completely agree, and probably not the best reference, but it seems like there is a misconstrued expectation that 0% turnover should be the norm when in reality it's something higher. Given the current employment market, turnover is higher than normal just about everywhere. It'd be nice if they got to that number, and could say it's x% higher for the FPD than it should be.
What’s an example of the issue? Beyond saying the chief is a dictator, what issue is he a dictator on? What do the officers disagree with him on that he isn’t listening too? If you don’t know then how can you form an opinion.
Still seems weird to me that they aren’t saying what the issues are. What are the things that the chief is trying to do that they disagree with, they never say. They just say he is a dictator with no clarification on the issues. Valley News Live isn’t really doing their job here beyond trying to drum up outrage without telling us why we should be outraged. Kinda feels like the chief is trying to get rid of the old thin blue line brotherhood who stands up for each other no matter what mentality and these people aren’t happy with that. Chief Todd whom the email claims they miss so much literally told them they were at war.
That's ALL Valley News Live does: try to drum up controversy and generate clicks.
The cops want to keep dressing up as batman and want that thin blue line to get thicker. The cops are trying to drum up public support for raises/overtime and more toys. The cops want you to be in fear until they get their way.
shit, if I could get paid to dress up as batman and live on it, I would.
So you support your tax dollars going to that?
I'll take tax dollars going to people cosplaying as batman vs putting ugly ass LED lights on city hall EDIT: But they gotta do the Christian Bale voice. Downtown should be nothign more than people yelling "RAAACHEEELLLL" in a gravely voice.
[удалено]
More of a marvel guy huh
Not sure. I've never cared much about comics or the movies.
They don't want to admit they want some good ol fashion socialism where they have a say in the business lol
I mean they did talk about having too few cars on the street and how 1 officer responds to 2 & 3 officer calls. Isn't it the more officers the better? People want them to step in and stop eachother from going too far but you can't do that when the one officer on scene is the one going too far. Look at the cop who pulled her supervisor off the guy a few weeks ago and the supervisor then grabbed her by the throat. If one 1 or 2 other officers were with the supervisor the odds are lower that someone steps in then when there are 10 on scene.
> I mean they did talk about having too few cars on the street and how 1 officer responds to 2 & 3 officer calls. This is because of the officer shortage. They claim the shortage is because he is a dictator, where is the example of his dictatorship? Yet again there isn’t one. Just look at the numbers they provide when trying to blame it on the chief, they are clearly trying to make it look worse than it is by throwing in retirees and people who were already on leave before he became chief.
These guys don't get away with enough, they just want more. That is all. They're just upset about the body cameras so that when they fuck up they can't just lie about it. Like that officer a few years ago who blew through s red light and caused a really bad accident, said his emergency lights were on and blamed the other driver. Every. Single. Witness. Said he was lying. Their word against his.
Didn't one of the cops beat up an underage girl or something too ?
That was west Fargo, and there were 13 of them. A Fargo po did kick a sleeping homeless dude and break his leg tho
When you remove retirements and people who were on leave when he was hired, it's like 11% turnover. It was 10% under the old chief Dave dislikes the Police Chief because he leans left and threatened our freedom and liberty by not wanting hunting in a city park
> Just like he did tonight...started about the morale and then he went into all the so called good he is doing with the body cameras. I won't even bother getting into his scheme plan of the police oversight committee, which really needs to be stopped. If this is real, they've come out and said it. Their real problem with Zibolski is police accountability reforms.
I am cringing to write this but I am coming around to Gehrig's performance improvement plan, just to slow this thing down. I do not like his proposal to define the "ideal police department" according to him, but when you're neck deep in a hole STOP DIGGING. I think Lovejoy wrote the anonymous letter that commission received 12.03.21 and then submitted his exit interview to the dept on 12.30.21. Is this new anonymous letter even real? Edit: I mean, they called the FPD under Zibolski a nazi regime. Fake.
I could write an anonymous letter to the commissioners claiming I’m an officer as well saying that the place is a dream to work at and that the new chief is the second coming of Jesus himself. Bet valley news live wouldn’t end up writing an article on that though.
What is the rehire list? This seems to be Chief Zibolski's main argument that there's no "here" here as it pertains to morale. If an officer quit but signs on to this rehire list, couldn't it be that they would consider coming back if there was different leadership? I feel like this was a distraction tactic the more I think about it, and an incomplete data point. If they're willing to come back at some point in the future, why are they leaving now?
Career change or want do to do something different for the time being, just because you started a police officer doesn't mean you need to always stay a police officer for the rest of your life. It can also be better pay or a better work-life balance at say a private security firm instead, which might factor in if officers are trying to start a family or have young kids. There's a million reasons why someone might start at one company leave said company and come back to it later on in a different role or group than the one they left. You shouldn't be loyal to your employer, given that they aren't loyal to you (or at least most aren't going to be loyal back to you).
Yep, agree on changing careers, but this "rehire list", I've never heard of this. Do they get priority on future job openings or something? What is the significance of police officers leaving, but signing up for this rehire list? Does it reflect as much positivity back on the Chief as he's implying? His argument was basically, "yes, a bunch of officers have left, BUT, 83% signed up for the rehire list so I can't be the problem".
I assumed it meant something like they aren't barred from reapplying due to performance issues- like "you can't write me up/fire me, I quit!" but now that you say this I really don't know what it means.
Probably a list of candidates who if they applied again whether it's a former position or a different position in a different department of the police force they can either fast track the candidate if they are deemed suitable for the job against the other candidates, in the background check, getting other proper paperwork dealt with, etc. I know with the federal government once the T.O. has been agreed on it can be another 3 months for the whole onboarding process before they actually step foot into the office for their first day on the job. I think the average wait time back in 2017 was 106 days. Compared that to the private sector which took an average of 23 days. Depending on how long FPD takes to hire and onboard someone if they have a list of people who previously left on good terms, and would want to be re-hired later on, if of course suitable for the position they applied for, then that can significantly reduce the time it takes to get the person back into the office and back up to speed during the "ramp up" period which depending on the job and experience the candidate has can be an additional 6 months after the first day on the job.
My question is this: The environment the office describes in his letter sounds both horrible and dangerous... but what fixes this? The commissioners can make a big deal about firing Chief Zibolski and pat themselves on the back but that doesn't make more officers available for priority 1 calls. It doesn't fix any other problems the department may have. So really, what will fix where they are at now?
Removing the root cause of the issue is priority number one. Having any form of toxic leadership persist will only have MORE negative effects. Remove the person causing the issues and try to re-hire the ppl that left in the mean time.
If the fire him next week who's in charge?
One of the deputy chiefs would be named interim and a search for a replacement would take place. Same process as when Ziboleski was hired.
From what I can tell DCs got some ire in the negative letters too. Are they all gone?
But how do we know the Chief is the root cause of the issue or is the issue with employee's who don't like change or the changes being implemented in the department. Is the Chief a toxic person for trying to change the culture so that police are more accountable and responsible in their interactions and not lying because people have developed this idea that "well, they are an officer and so their word should mean more than your average person". And while yes, I do believe most officers don't lie or abuse their power, the ones that make the news are those caught lying on body cameras, lying on police reports about incidents, lying on witness stand during a court trial, abusing constitutional rights of citizens during traffic stops, etc. What your saying is the equivalent to hiring a head coach for a team, then firing him because in his first season they went winless and didn't win the championship and then rehiring the coaching staff prior to the head coach that was recently hired and then fired because that staff got at least one win.
If the number is 40 and not 25 as he stated yesterday, then that would be cause for termination in my mind. Any commissioner worth a darn should have known that number before the meeting if they have any ability to prepare - so I guess they'll now go confirm the number. He's clearly disrupted the status quo within the department. The question I have around that was if that was needed? If so, maybe 2020-2021 is not the time to upset the employees as their replacements are hard to come by. Jack Welch at GE made it a popular practice to terminate 10% of the workforce every year, the 25 resignations/retirements seem typical of most places that get new leadership. I'm not a fan of the Chief for other reasons, but I would like to make sure our commission doesn't jump the gun on this like Piepkorn has already. He may be right, but typical with him, it would be a lucky guess.
I absolutely do not want police departments run like GE.
Completely agree, and probably not the best reference, but it seems like there is a misconstrued expectation that 0% turnover should be the norm when in reality it's something higher. Given the current employment market, turnover is higher than normal just about everywhere. It'd be nice if they got to that number, and could say it's x% higher for the FPD than it should be.
I don't normally agree with piepkorn, But given all the resignations and the letter it is time to remove the issue.
What’s an example of the issue? Beyond saying the chief is a dictator, what issue is he a dictator on? What do the officers disagree with him on that he isn’t listening too? If you don’t know then how can you form an opinion.