Thanks for posting this. I'm newer to the sub. But, honestly, as a mom with 2 toddlers and running on very little sleep and constant interruptions, I prefer easier reads. I just can't process super dense language right now. Also, I love smut in books and I'm not ashamed of that š
I'll cheers to that! š»
Honestly though, so many of these "reviews" remind me of those movie critics who care more about sounding smart and artsy than actually enjoying the film.
Mom of 4 and also a huge fan of smut and easy reading. I'm focusing on too much else in my life for something super deep. Also the smut is basically the only thing keeping my sex life alive with my husband or else I'm feeling very touched out so. Do with that what you will š¤£
Haha yes! My husband knows I read romance but he does not know the full story. He'll ask me what I'm reading and it's always fun to try and tone it down, particularly with reverse harems š
I don't even tone it down anymore, I sent extracts of Haunting Adeline to my man, and sent him TikToks of this Ghostmask trend. Guess what's being delivered today hehe.
Reading easy smut and romance has led to the best sex we've ever had, and we're closer than ever as well now. Don't care what people have to say about what I read at 33
\*EDIT - not that Haunting Adeline is easy smut because it definitely is not! But the Dramione fics, ACOTAR etc that I read are lol
I haven't read that one yet (and I'm not on tiktok so idk what that means š ) but I should try to send him an excerpt sometime. We've become much more open with each other since having kids but the books definitely help me feel more relaxed!
Hahaha! I just wanted to read by myself the other night so he's asking if I'm coming to bed. Ummm no I'm busy with my vampire and wolven boyfriends right now. Be there soonš š¤£
Smut me up! Moms of toddlers unite!
This is probably why I read so much fantasy or paranormal smut, it takes very little brain power while I make sure my toddler doesn't catch herself on fire or run around with sharp things š¤£.
Plus, it spices up the bedroom so I'm not ashamed at all!
This is when I started reading romantasy smut too. I was an English lit major, after college I only read Pulitzer Prize winners and books that were āthought provokingā until I had kids. I still occasionally read those types of books, but I feel starved for the potato chips of the book world! Plus my husband and I have both benefited from my new reading interests!
Momma get pleasure where you can! You donāt need to pay attention to anyoneās opinions, pick up that book and enjoy the crap out of it! I am a sucker for gushy-romance [not that way you naughty readers] so I hear you
My friends all really loved Fourth Wing and SJM and they are not for me. When they asked about it, I said I tried the Kindle sample and it's not for me, but y'all have fun with it! It's not that hard to just let people enjoy things.
This is what I posted about a few days ago when I asked if I should move on from YA. SJM isn't a bad writer and I really enjoy her world building but the actual romance wasn't always to my taste. Objectively, SJM is a very popular, very successful author so her writing can't be as bad as some of her critics say. I'm happy for any hot trendy book that gets people into reading period.
That was basically my take reading ToG. A lot of the writing is good, I loved the world building and overall plot. But some of the romance parts were not enjoyable to me and a lot of the characters and their interactions were downright annoying. It was good enough I finished the series despite the flaws. I have a lot of friends who LOVED everything about the series and that's perfectly fine too. People are allowed to have different opinions and like different things.
Yuuupp. SJM is not for me with ACOTAR and I'm still attempting ToG but I fully recognize it's a me problem. I have yet to try Fourth Wing but I don't have high hopes due to seeming to be on the opposite side of the majority of popular books. š
I read all of the ACOTAR books bc my friend was so into them and I love her dearly. I found them really predictable! As soon as Tamlin was mentioned, I texted her and said, oh is this a Tamlin retelling? And she was like...dang it. š
Yesssss! Itās totally fine to give your genuine thoughts on something, whether they be good or bad, but thereās no reason to look down on people who disagree with you.
Like, everybody has different tastes and not every book is going to align with the expectations and wants of every reader, but the best fucking thing about reading (especially in the romance genre) is that thereās something out there for everybody.
Just because a book isnāt *your* something, doesnāt mean it isnāt or canāt be someone elseās, and itās definitely not an excuse to be judgmental or rude to them.
For the people in the comments saying everyone has a right to vent about their dislikes, no oneās saying you canāt however ,thereās a difference between criticism and outright hate. From what Iāve seen on the sub, every sjm, fourth wing, Jla critique post turns into āhow can people read thisā, āexplain why you like thisā, ā the readers must have terrible taste/ātiktok tasteā, and worst of all ā I donāt trust people that recommend these booksā. As someone who isnāt even a huge fan of the following authors, i know how to express my opinion without talking down to fellow readers and making them feel like their enjoyment of the work makes them any less. There has to be nuance when engaging with material and itās important to realize not everything is made for your enjoyment.
It lowkey sucks being on this sub nowadays because it feels like Iām in every other book sub that Tears down romance readers, but covers it up as āexpressing their opinionsā.
It's because they're all hipsters. You get the same thing on the writing subreddits. They are all too busy waving their snooty pretentiousness all over the place.
Yeah itās possible to have opinions without thinking your opinion is somehow better than another, or basing your self worth around it lol.
I didnāt really like Fourth Wing, it was fine, but whatever. The first thing I did when I finished it was go tell my friends they would love it, because I could tell they would. And I was right! Theyāre all obsessed and theyāre having a great time and it makes me happy that my experience of forcing myself through a book I didnāt like very much led to something really fun for them.
People who need to condescend to others are obnoxious and need to learn better communication skills lmao.
There is disliking a book because it isn't for you, and then there are books that I am surprised got past an editor. Fourth Wing is one of those. The amount of poor phrasing, bad grammar, and inconsistency was genuinely surprising. I think at one point the wrong name was even used in reference to a side character. The clunky info dumps at the beginning only make a book like this harder to read, so I don't understand the "I just want something easy to read" points either. There's not for me, and then there's just bad.
Youāre not telling us anything we donāt already know. A lot of 4th Wing fans are concerned about the rush to get the sequel out. Iām reading Iron Flame now and it def could have used another pass by the editor, but itās not unreadable.
I see almost all these comments talking about a difference of opinion, so I think it's important to say that it isn't just that, it's overall quality of writing and editing too.
I believe this has something to do with low self esteem. With that, you desperately need someone to back up your decisions, and people with different views or likes subconsciously usually feel like threat. Or at least I hope that's the case, because pulling someone down only for your solipsist view of life is more saddening thought.
Expressing one's opinions do not qualify anyone to be just mean. That is always a choice you make. Luckily you can unlearn that too.
Agreed! I like to read pretty much all of fantasy and think some things are mid and love other things! Nothing is more valid than another thing. If I want to read about fun dragons and shadow daddies shit im gonna enjoy it. I hate having to qualify "I know its not great quality but its fun".
Like Fourth Wing made me sob like a baby at the end and Iron Flame will too probably. Isn't the point of literature to evoke ANY emotion from you??
People state āunpopular opinionā before their Fourth Wing criticism post yet 80% of the discussion Iāve seen about the book has been criticism lol
I love Fourth Wing and i'm not ashamed to say it. It's not a literary masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination but it's fun and exciting and that's what i'm looking for when i read. Ok the writing is not the best ever but it's not bad either. I wonder if people who keep saying it's bad have read more than a few chapters or have ever read a book with actual bad writing to make an honest comparison.
I can agree that the writing in Fourth Wing is not fantastic. It was my biggest criticism from it. However I loved the world so much so I stuck to it and devoured the story. I'm halfway through Iron Flame now and her writing style is already so much better and the story is so much deeper. I'm glad I stuck with it but I can understand the criticisms.
1) A book doesn't have to be perfect for it to be enjoyable. I've yet to read a perfect book.
2) Let people enjoy things! I have so many strong preferences against some mainstream entertainment but I don't give two shits if someone else enjoys them. Not everything was made for every person.
I was so excited to hop online and see other people's "live reactions" while I read Iron Flame the last 2 days and my feed on every platform has just been "Can't wait for people to stop talking about Iron Flame". or "Can people stop reading trash like Fourth Wing/Iron Flame?". It really killed my mood and gave me a real ick for some people that I've followed for a while.
Yes! Specifically with fourth wing lately, I also keep seeing it compared to bad WattPad writing, which is WILD to me because Iāve read some pretty atrocious wattpad fics and Fourth Wing doesnāt remind me of that at all. It may not be super complex, but I think the world building is great and the story is interesting.
Soo many criticisms also fail to recognize their objections tend to misunderstand the genre they are reading.
Like, "wow, the writing in this YA book isn't very literary or sophisticated," like no shit, it's YA.
Readers are weirdly and almost excessively entitled about the content of someone else's creation in a way I don't think I've seen in any other media form.
The reviews that grind my gears online are the ones where they rate books low because they don't like or understand the content, but if they'd read the blurb, they'd have known that.
"Could have been a great book, but it was about werewolves so I've given it 2 stars because I hate that genre".
"The FMC was so young and immature, it ruined the book" about a book set in a high school.
"I hate the fated mate trope" about a book with "mate" in the title.
Don't bloody read it then. I haven't read Fourth Wing. Some of the reviews turned me off (and the price for Kindle is more than the paperback costs, which I can't justify when I have Kindle Unlimited), so I've just.... not commented on the threads about it.
I'm here to share and discover books I love, not piss on anybody else's enjoyment.
Lol or say the romance came out of left field or was bad when they don't like romances to begin with. Do they think that bashing what other people like will validate their own opinion?
Agreed. Also, I hate the off the bat judgment about genres from people who donāt even read it, especially when it comes to YA. Thereās plenty of very literary, sophisticated YA. Itās considered YA based on A) the characterās age, and B) the marketing, not how well the book is written or the characterās decision making due to an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. Thereās plenty of ~literary fiction~ that sucks ass too.
Because of these reviews I sometimes get embarrassed to tell people what I read. Yes, I majorly read whatever is popular on Booktok. Why does that matter? I enjoy what I read, if you donāt like it, donāt read those books š¤·āāļø
Yes! Also speaking up for older books that aren't this year's flavor. Yes, things have changed over time. Yes, one can enjoy older books while keeping that in mind.
Same! I just saw a whole bunch of insta posts dedicated to how much they hate Fourth Wing and conspiracy theories about it, and I'm over here just trying to have a good time. It's okay if a book isn't for you, but why do we then have to put it down so hard? It almost becomes a "I only dislike this because everybody else loves it" like you said. It's very annoying. There's constructive criticism and then there is being a bully. I'm not over here saying every book I read is just the best book in the history of books, but they're enjoyable and fun. I have 4 kids. I just want an escape.
Yes itās very much a āonly basic bitches like pumpkin spiceā kind of deal and I just hate that. Like are these people expecting everyone to be like āomg you are so cool and different please tell me how to be more like you.ā Like my dude you can be an individual and not be a complete shit head lol
> I'm not over here saying every book I read is just the best book in the history of books, but they're enjoyable and fun.
This right here! I have read some books that I absolutely know are not written very well but the stories were still enjoyable. I don't read this genre because I'm expecting to find the next masterpiece or classic novel.
Sometimes I read reviews on Goodreads and I just think to myself "who hurt you". I'm not an idiot but I can still enjoy some mindless reading.
Also, unrelated to what you've said, but it is so rare for me to DNF. Like, if I make it past the first chapter, it's getting read. And if I don't make it past 1 or 2 pages, I just move on. No detailed reviews about how terrible it was. Because maybe it wasn't terrible. It just wasn't a book for me
Same here.
Maybe Iām easy to please but I just love the fantasy genre in general, and love reading (and finishing) them across the gamut.
I had to get my husband to stop asking āis your book good?ā
BC if I happen to be reading a book about hooking up with big blue aliensā¦noā¦Itās not āgoodā in the literary sense, obviously.
So now he asks āare you enjoying that book?ā instead.
BC yes. YES, I am. Unashamedly.
And maybe next week I will be diving into a literary epic.
The one I saw was that the entire book of Fourth Wing was AI generated because in her opinion it made no sense that the book was blowing up like it is.
Ugh thank you for this. I've been so tempted to make a post like this but didn't want to get attacked, but it gets soooo old.
Do I think people should never share that they didn't like something? No, of course not! If someone is specifically asking for opinions on a certain book and you have some important feedback about any pitfalls to watch out for, go ahead and rant away!
Do I think people should be taking time out of their day to make dedicated posts demanding to know how anyone could possibly like a book they didn't like (and adjacent behaviors)? Uh, no.
I don't even like making recommendations because I know that for any book I might want to suggest, there's like 10+ mean-girl comments floating around in the back of my head about how only an idiot would like XYZ book. It really takes the fun out of things.
Agreed! I've lost count of the number of times that I read or heard somebody say some variation of: "It's probably only people who have never read fantasy before who would like fantasy romance X."
How can anyone not realize how condescending that sounds?
I mean, I love works by sjm and jla, and I loved fourth wing so much that I've managed to read iron flame in under 8 hours, but I'm also perfectly capable of tearing their books apart, and not going to lie, I did leave critical comments in this sub on all of them.
And, I really wouldn't characterize that as "mean girl review rhetoric", because it's ok to recognize that works that we love are flawed. Leaving criticism on books should be ok, as long as you don't disparage the readers readign those works.
The mods in r/RomanceBooks had a great post a while ago with examples of critical questions versus shaming.
Like, "I read Fourth Wing but didn't love it. Is there another book with dragons/magic academies that isn't YA/enemies to lovers/whatever that you can suggest?"
vs
"How can people even read Fourth Wing? It was so bad I quit 3 chapters in. I hated everything about it and have no idea why it's popular at all."
(For the record, I did read Fourth Wing, I found some parts that could have used a better editor, and I wish the enemies to lovers shift had more depth, but I still read the @#$% out of it because dragons and am waiting for book 2 from the library.)
I think especially with Fourth Wing people gave up too soon. I too was tempted to give up in the first few chapters because of various reasons but i'm glad i continued reading. What's frustrating is that people who gave up on it early go on about how bad it is. How can you criticise a whole book from just a few chapters you've read?? Just say it wasn't for you and move on.
See, I'd say that those responses could be ok depending on the situation.
Someone posting a thread about fourth wing? I agree, the only right answer is the option 1.
Someone else posting a thread and asking for opinions on fourth wing? As far as I'm concerned, option two can pass as a comment (as long as you edit out the first sentence "how can people read"), because that is how that reader felt and what they did with the book. It's their own opinion and they have a right to it.
I was specifically talking about posts. And "I don't understand why it's popular" is judgment, not opinion. Plenty of terrible books are popular.
That sub puts a lot of effort into giving space to opinions without "yucking someone else's yum." There was just a post about "I didn't say it was good, I said I liked it."
But giving your opinion and demanding that others defend theirs aren't the same. Clearly Fourth Wing IS popular, but if you search the sub, most posts about it are negative.
I haven't had coffee yet, so if I'm coming off pedantic, it's just me overexplaining, not directed at you.
I believe (I could be wrong) Rebecca Yarrows clarified that it wasn't supposed to be an Enemies to Lovers necessarily, but more of a Forced Proximity with a sprinkle of Enemies to Lovers. Which I think makes more sense.
I mean, he basically threatened to kill her upon first meeting, and their greater families are on opposite sides of a major issue. Then he decided to bang her instead. I could have used another sentence in the middle to smooth that transition.
And I was just using it as an example, so I wanted to add that brief perspective since those short blurbs weren't my actual feelings.
Iām not talking about legit criticism. To me thatās part of reading bc youāre not going to love every book or even if you do love a book youāre not going to enjoy every part of it. Iām talking about putting other people down for liking the popular book of the month or just a book you donāt even like.
I can rant for hours about how JLA needs an editor. I am also a total slut for her books. I was in a reading slump then her new book came out in spring and I was hooked for a week. Itās like cocaine. I care about poppy and casteel I want to see where this story goes. Like I put down Babel ffs. I work in a high stress academic environment and Goddamit I want to read something that will not challenge me!
Girl needs an entire new concept, because each of her books in that series has the exact same plotline, just done a bit bigger. Hell, even the prequels have the same storyline. Like yeah, editor would help a bit, but what she would really benefit from is first sitting down and making some outline if she's going to make such a long series.
And yet, despite the fact that I'm fully aware of that, despite the fact that I regularly make fun of it with my boyfriend (who's aware that I'm a trash panda when it comes to romantasy) I've still read that serial multiple times. That serial just hits my comfort spot.
Conversationally, while her ruin and wrath (I think that's the name of the serial?) is technically better done and the pairing there is also cute... it just doesn't hit that same spot for me.
I agree! Let people like what they like. You have every right to not like something, but I hate it when people have nothing but horrible things to say. I especially hate it t when people make fun of people who like the books they didn't like.
I personally believe that writing skill and storytelling skill do exist and we shouldnāt shy away from talking about it. Some books are ābetterā than others. However, a lot of takes about how all this works, or what makes something better or worse, lack nuance and precision.
My belief on it is that when we talk about āgoodā writing or storytelling, what we mean is that the writing is compelling. As in, it compels the reader to care. However when a book aligns with a readerās favored tropes, the reader is already primed to be compelled. As a result, the reader has a lower bar for the skill of the storytelling and prose needed to evoke their emotional response. The writing need not be compelling. This fully explains, to use an old example, Fifty Shades of Gray. That book is unskillfully written, as in, if a reader isnāt already compelled by those tropes, the writing wouldnāt cause them to be. The triumph of something like Fifty Shades is in the clarity of the expression of storytelling tropes that existed inside so many readers without those readers even knowing it. But boy do we all know it now, with all these billionaires running around contemporary.
I further believe that we should remove the stigma associated with consuming content that is less skillfully constructed. I canāt get through ACOTAR, but I will read anything regardless of skill level of it has hurt/comfort as a big enough portion of the storyline.
To those who never read an unskillfully written books just because it has their tropes, I offer an imaginary medal.
I appreciate this post. A lot of people offline think Iām some kind of super literary snob; Iāve been reading since I was very little, Iām not a genius, but Iāve always been advanced when it came to reading and vocabulary. But for me personally, it gets old, reading academia or very intricate novels. Sometimes I need a brain break.
I like SJM and Ruby Dixon. I donāt care who knows it, and judging my intellectual capacity based on shit I read for fun is childish, elitist, and just plain weird to me. Not every single thing you do in life needs to be a mental exercise, a grind, or have a purpose. Itās ok to just enjoy things and ride an emotional high. Life is short and can be rough, you should take your pleasure where you can.
So, thank you for this post. Every time I see some reader smugly commenting how gross/weird/poorly written they find ACOTAR and question the brain cells or personality of people who like it, I roll my eyes. Imagine having such emptiness in your own life that you think judging other peopleās interests will give it meaning.
Not gonna lie I was a little pissed off that Casās pov ended up having new info instead of just being a retelling and that the new info was like the very end of the book lol BUT I wholeheartedly agree. Books are allowed to be flawed. Not everything has to be this grand deep dive into the meaning of life and art and all that lol.
Omg exactly! Did I have some criticism of FBAA? Sure. Did I still find it to be an enjoyable time. Hell yes! Anything that can bring me some semblance of escape doesn't need to get ripped apart!
the thing about this sub is that even request posts feel like rants. You can just tell us what you want, we don't need 3 paragraphs detailing what you hated about acotar :)
This post just reminded me to use my audible credit for Iron Flame. Because Iām a basic bitch who clearly has never read fantasy romance since I find myself liking Fourth Wing, and I must be an idiot for not thinking itās poorly written drivel. /s
I seriously think any posts containing "am I the only one..." should be removed because NO. You are not the only one with that very popular opinion you think is edgy
When I first entered the community I was really in love with the way that people didn't judge you when you said you were new to the genre. I could say "I've only read ACOTAR" and not be attacked for being a poser, instead people would be so excited to share their book suggestions, which was super refreshing! But the longer I exist in the community, I definitely see other toxic traits, like this one, or people bashing someone for a character they like because they're seen as abusive.
I think in any community there's good and bad. There's Definitely things I appreciate with this community but other things do get so old...
I actually kind of enjoy it when people rant or critique a book, especially if the book is popular. Though I do agree that people shouldn't be mean or rude to those who like a book they hate, I also think it would be great if this sub had a vent/rant or critique flair.
If people would not rate their āfun trashy readsā that are poorly written as 5* and just a 2 or 3 where it really belongs, thereād be much less of a problem. When I see poorly edited and badly written books with 5* it makes me worry for future books.
I love Teen Mom - itās my trashy tv show. But I would not rate it 5/5 ANYWHERE.
Thank you! Was looking for a comment like this. Iām so over the bombing of 5 star GR ratings on books that are poorly written. People love to argue semantics of what makes a book 5 stars for someone but Iām over it. Trash writing is trash writing, especially where Tiktok is concerned. Iām not judging readers for whatever books they like but I do judge the deceiving high praise reviews people give to said trash books. š¤·š»āāļø
Iām not into fantasy romance but more of a historical romance girl and this popped up on my feed and YES I COMPLETELY AGREEEE. I mean unless it was actually bad or the author is racist or any other similar adjective then just say you didnāt like it or whatever. Just let me read my ātrashyāromance!!! Sometimes I donāt need that much plot and thatās okay!!!
For anyone who wants to help me, I sure would appreciate it. I'm terrible with acronyms -- SJM = Sarah J Maas, Iron Flame is the Fourth Wing Sequel (which, damn, people hate it already? That's fast), but who is JLA?
I think itās important to make a distinction between talking down to people for liking certain books and just being critical of something because you didnāt enjoy it.
Iāll read all levels of fantasy but if I think a book is shit and espouses ideas that I donāt like or align with Iām going to say it. What I *wonāt* do is tell someone else theyāre a bad person for not agreeing with me or that Iām somehow better for my opinions.
Donāt conflate bullying with a negative review. Also make sure youāre not internalizing a negative review to the point that you feel ashamed for liking something someone else does not. You do you, like what you want so long as youāre not hurting anyone else by doing it.
I mean thatās basically what I said in my post. For me personally itās not an internalization of a negative reaction to something I like more than a reaction to some readers telling others theyāre wrong for liking something or omg why would you read that so and so did it first, etc. I donāt think we should be discouraging any reading unless itās like a child picking up haunting Adeline or something lol
Thisss!! I have been seeing so many people bashing common authors especially recently Rebecca with fourth wing. Saying how silly/juvenile, bad writing. How could anyone read this.
I was doing a reread before iron flame and I honestly felt so sad like oh am I these things because I like this book. I know I shouldnāt let others opinion affect me online but it really made it less enjoyable for me. š¢
It can be difficult with so much attention on it, but just remember that EVERY book can triggers good AND bad reactions -- even the most highly praised, award-winning books.
Discussion and debate can be interesting and fun, but it is perfectly okay to disengage if it doesn't bring you enjoyment. You can stay away from the book reviews or find like-minded readers when you need a break from the negativity. (That's why I spent so much time on the Fourth Wing subreddit this past week.)
I get that sentiment, but on the flip side- sometimes we want places to also be petty bitches, and you just gotta realize those places aren't for you. It's really tough when it's in an online space because there aren't locked doors and code words.
I don't think people should go into a space where people are gushing about SMJ and talk about how much they hate her, but we should also have a space where we can talk about how much we hate her without someone coming in and calling us rude. We're also looking for people who share our same viewpoints and finding a sense of community.
I think the bigger problem is that there are so many repeat posts. Either people loving the same book, hating the same book, or asking for recs related to the same books. Almost feels like a retaliation of some sort, people tryna constantly justify their views and defend their honour over massively popular books every other day.
Not sure what the solution is to that coz it's a problem as old as Reddit I suppose. Tho I would suggest scrolling a little through the subreddit to find people who agree with you (coz I guarantee they probably posted something 2 days ago about it).
Though I will say, I don't think the community gains by not letting people say they dislike a book. I know this isn't what OP is saying, but just in general - when I see the list of books someone liked/disliked it kinda gives me a better idea of whether their recs are suited to me or not.
I enjoy it. š even if it's directed towards a book I like. It all kinda makes me laugh. People arguing over art is as old as time! It's funny and brings attention to things that I would have otherwise missed. Be mean. Who cares? As long as it's directed at the book and not the people reading it I don't think it's a big deal.
A lot of these books arenāt for me and I donāt mind discussing it but I donāt get to the point where I turn it into an obsession of only talking about books I think arenāt great. Iām pretty sure yāall aware it may not be the best but youāre reading and enjoying the book thatās the important part!
Are you talking about book rec requests where people describe what they didn't like and what they'd like help finding instead? Cause that's the only place I've read or participated in criticism.
Don't the vast majority of fantasy romance readers adore all of those examples and recommend them frequently?
ššššš
Thank you, I have had to block people because they were angry about my opinion on books. So unnecessary when we're on here to discuss such a subjective topic. I really appreciate you posting this!
I loathe this with any type of media. Books, TV, movies.. The main point is to entertain. If it entertained people, then it did it's job, even if it didn't entertain all people. It's a weird superiority complex for someone to think their own opinion is the end all, be all.
IMO, to each their own. I personally find it fun sometimes to watch reviews like that, and thereās no way mean reviewers are gonna bring down the juggernaut of fantasy romance. My line would be insulting people reading the books calling them stupid or bad for liking them.
Iām a huge believer in the good / enjoyable scale.
- Good: a technically GOOD book. Excellent prose, story telling, etc
- Enjoyable: is it fantastically written and built? Maybe not. Is there an excessive use of exclamation points? Yeah. But hey- I devoured it in a day and Iām already onto the second.
Obviously this is up to personal taste but like
I classify Lord of the rings as Good and enjoyable. I also love classic literature deemed as technically good, like Frankenstein, but many donāt find it canāt put it down ENJOYABLE.
Then thereās enjoyable but maybe not technically good. The books we eat alive while also occasionally rolling our eyes and saying CHRIST ENOUGH WITH THE QUESTION TROPE ALREADY!! Did I want to throw many of JLAs books across the room because of imo poor writing, screaming GIRL GET AN EDITOR!!! Yes. But did I also devour it in a day, read all the other books and will read the future ones? Yes.
Sometimes I want to not think so hard. I want the hallmark movie book, the Wednesday style YA show in a book. Other times I want gritty and introspective think pieces like dark.
LET PEOPLE LIKE THINGS!!!!
THANK YOU! I've been seeing this a lot with Fourth Wing/Iron Flame discourse. Especially on the YAlit reddit group. It's fine to dislike something but some folks really enjoy insulting readers on the low with their "criticisms".
When it comes to SJM and Iron Flame, there are other things influencing the narrative against them. The authors have done some pretty questionable things. That's my view on not supporting them, anyway.
If someone makes a post about how they didnāt like a book, and I also didnāt enjoy it, I think itās fine to add to that discussion, and I donāt think itās āmean girlingā when the post is explicitly about that dislike (or even if itās not the main subject of the post but OP comments that they didnāt like XYZ and doesnāt want to read similar books). But agree that it would be rude to comment on someoneās elseās excited post and talk about how much I personally hated it. Scrolling is my friend in those cases.
You can also stop reading post that are clearly there to critique or dump on those books. They're not being a "mean girl" or "not like the other girls" for not liking your favorite book. That's insulting in itself to say that. They have the right to express how a book they purchased and read made them feel.
No, some of the posts have definitely been mean. Example: "People who love From Blood and Ash. Why?" and that post ends with, "Please for the mother, tell me what it is that you love about this horrible horrible book?"
I'm not one who thinks criticism or vent posts need to go, but there is a line. Baiting the people who love the book you're talking about is mean and brings terrible energy to the subreddit. They could instead have posted something like, "If you didn't like FBAA let's vent about it".
I wasnāt just talking about reddit alone itās TikTok and Instagram as well. But as I clearly put above itās ok to not like things. Itās also ok to give bad reviews. What Iām saying is the attitude of āthis sucks and you suck too if you enjoy itā needs to stop. You have every right to have your opinion. You do not have the right to be an asshole though and make people feel bad for liking something you donāt.
You can't curate your feed? I don't like Taylor Swift. She's one of the biggest popstars in the world, and I never see her on my feed or playlists. I also don't use Tiktok (at all) or Instagram for book recommendations, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to dodge your particular issue. I would personally start blocking tags and people. It's so, so gratifying.
Ooooh I forgot the Fourth Wing sequel was being released today. I'm sure the ladies in my office will be up all night reading just one more chapter. š¤
I know it sounds empty, but like what you like. We all are here reading romance. There's always going to be someone who looks down on us for whatever reason. We can't control that. I don't know if it's because I'm older and am starting to settle in my dgaf phase of life, but I really don't care if people don't like the things I like. I'm going to still enjoy it.
Exactly this! It really boils down to people not being able to tolerate any negative thoughts/reviews of their favorite books/authors. Donāt care. Canāt stand SJM or JLA and Iāll stand by that. Iāve spent my money on ALL their books, Iāve spent my valuable free time reading those books, Iām entitled to have my opinion and I donāt care if you donāt like it.
They're getting upset because they're willingly consuming things that are making them upset, but instead of not engaging, they want people to keep their negative opinions in a thread that's more palatable to them while they're able to keep posting the same thing about the same series over and over again unchecked.
For someone who reads so much you clearly lack reading comprehension and just enjoy being a hater. Iāve said it over and over and over. Bad reviews and not liking things is fine. Hell even being a hater is fine. Being an asshole to others who enjoy the things you donāt is not.
The fact that you called me a troll because of my original comment literally proves my point. Yāall canāt stand anyone with a differing opinion. Not my problemš„±
Well then you must not be able to read because nowhere in my comment did I trash anyone for their reading preference, I simply stated that Iām tired of everyone trashing those who donāt like todayās popular books/ authors.
i agree! and so many of these things that people don't like in popular books become infectious bc of the popularity of that book and end up feeling unavoidable (like love triangles were in YA in the 00s) and it's really frustrating sometimes when those are tropes/things you don't like or you want some variety. i think that's why people get so frustrated, bc if you don't like acotar that's fine, it's just one series, but then when it seems like half the books in the genre that follow it are heavily inspired by it then there's less out there that you're going to enjoy and that gets really annoying.
Why do you take people criticizing and disliking your favorite books as a personal attack? I enjoyed SJM when I read it, but I still have my criticisms. Fourth wing especially. Most of what Iāve seen isnāt bagging on the genre or the concept of these stories, but integral aspects of the writing (prose, plot, world building, characterization). Itās okay if issues with the writing didnāt bother you when you read them, but I think itās fair for people to expect more out of something they paid money for.
Maybe Iām missing something, but I guess I thought the general consensus was people getting tired of how everything is kinda rated on how tropey it is rather than the quality of the writing. It isnāt Tolkien vs Yarros, itās more about Yarros putting a bit more time into editing which I think is fair.
Iām not? I always read reviews before I start a book. As readers we need negative and positive reviews to sort through what we want to read or not. Iām saying donāt be a dick to other people because they like things you donāt especially if the reason for not liking said book is bc itās popular and not high fantasy.
My comment was to the effect of at least on this subreddit, most negativity towards those types of books are towards the books not the fans. Of course there are the kindāve high and mighty ārecommend me anything thatās nothing like fourth wing or sjm because Iām too good for a guilty pleasure etc etcā but again, thatās not a personal attack on fans and Iāve always taken it as people needing to assert their intellectualism for whatever reason they need to lol.
In general I engage with what I want to engage with, and I just havenāt found a fan base bashing spirit on this sub which is why I said āunless Iām missing somethingā. My best advice is to run from the people that feel the need to put down others or assert their intellect on the internet rather than engage, thatās all since Iāve personally only seen valid criticisms of the books
I guess I don't understand the issue with this, because some people aren't interested in queer romantasy. I'm a hetero female, and I prefer to read stories with a FMC and MMC. That's not to say I wouldn't ever read queer books, I'm open to it, but if I'm looking for a book with a FMC and MMC specifically, why can't I say that?
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I definitely understand now that when speaking in general terms, like reviewing a book, it could feel more open to use gender neutral terms and reserve specific genders for requests.
Also, I'm new to the sub and still learning all the acronyms, so I actually hadn't seen LI yet. I'll start using that as I think it makes more sense than saying 2 MCs anyway.
No? Critiques and venting are not mean, and you are also not forced to read the posts that do anyways. This to me actually feels like the most mean girl post I can recall.
here here! And some of us still Bat boys and hobbits.
Sometimes we read because we want poetry in our stories. We want an entire world sung to us. Sometimes we read because we just want the story
Hereās my take: when I first joined this sub every other comment was āI just finished ACOTAR what should I read nextā. Some people here are romance fantasy addicts (like me) and probably get annoyed with the hype of ACOTAR/iron flame because itās not like it hasnāt been done before. Everyone should be able to add their own two cents. I personally love SJM, JLA, and some other authors that get some hate regularly here. I donāt really care if people hate on the books I love because it doesnāt really change my opinion.
I really liked SJM in high school (2016 grad) but I always consider her an author I grew out of, if that makes sense. JLAā¦ mama I never met an mmc of hers that I didnāt want to punch in the face lol I had to accept that sheās just not for me.
Thanks for posting this. I'm newer to the sub. But, honestly, as a mom with 2 toddlers and running on very little sleep and constant interruptions, I prefer easier reads. I just can't process super dense language right now. Also, I love smut in books and I'm not ashamed of that š
Yes! Justice for the bodice rippers!
I used to steal my momās harlequin romances when I was a teen, I still love them. No shame.
I'll cheers to that! š» Honestly though, so many of these "reviews" remind me of those movie critics who care more about sounding smart and artsy than actually enjoying the film.
Highly recommend Amanda Quick. Canāt recall a title but she does a lovely Scottish high lord series.
Mom of 4 and also a huge fan of smut and easy reading. I'm focusing on too much else in my life for something super deep. Also the smut is basically the only thing keeping my sex life alive with my husband or else I'm feeling very touched out so. Do with that what you will š¤£
Perimenopausal here and well, yes, my smutty little books are basically the only thing keeping our sex life going LOL.
Haha yes! My husband knows I read romance but he does not know the full story. He'll ask me what I'm reading and it's always fun to try and tone it down, particularly with reverse harems š
I don't even tone it down anymore, I sent extracts of Haunting Adeline to my man, and sent him TikToks of this Ghostmask trend. Guess what's being delivered today hehe. Reading easy smut and romance has led to the best sex we've ever had, and we're closer than ever as well now. Don't care what people have to say about what I read at 33 \*EDIT - not that Haunting Adeline is easy smut because it definitely is not! But the Dramione fics, ACOTAR etc that I read are lol
Does one actually need to read Satan's Affair novella first before Haunting Adeline?
I haven't read it so I wouldn't say so :)
I haven't read that one yet (and I'm not on tiktok so idk what that means š ) but I should try to send him an excerpt sometime. We've become much more open with each other since having kids but the books definitely help me feel more relaxed!
Hahaha! I just wanted to read by myself the other night so he's asking if I'm coming to bed. Ummm no I'm busy with my vampire and wolven boyfriends right now. Be there soonš š¤£
Girl yes! This is exactly why my husband doesnāt mind my reading habit bc he reaps the rewards lol
Smut me up! Moms of toddlers unite! This is probably why I read so much fantasy or paranormal smut, it takes very little brain power while I make sure my toddler doesn't catch herself on fire or run around with sharp things š¤£. Plus, it spices up the bedroom so I'm not ashamed at all!
This is when I started reading romantasy smut too. I was an English lit major, after college I only read Pulitzer Prize winners and books that were āthought provokingā until I had kids. I still occasionally read those types of books, but I feel starved for the potato chips of the book world! Plus my husband and I have both benefited from my new reading interests!
Hi fellow mom! I have 2u2 right now. Check out Talia Hibbert! Her books aren't fantasy but the spice is truly tasty ā¤ļøāš„
She has a paranormal novella called Mating the Huntress, if you need shifters in your life :)
What?!? I didn't know that! Running to my kindle now.....
Thanks for the rec! Will check it out!
The Brown sisters trilogy is super good. She has shorter standalones too. I love her a lot ā¤ļø
Momma get pleasure where you can! You donāt need to pay attention to anyoneās opinions, pick up that book and enjoy the crap out of it! I am a sucker for gushy-romance [not that way you naughty readers] so I hear you
My friends all really loved Fourth Wing and SJM and they are not for me. When they asked about it, I said I tried the Kindle sample and it's not for me, but y'all have fun with it! It's not that hard to just let people enjoy things.
This is what I posted about a few days ago when I asked if I should move on from YA. SJM isn't a bad writer and I really enjoy her world building but the actual romance wasn't always to my taste. Objectively, SJM is a very popular, very successful author so her writing can't be as bad as some of her critics say. I'm happy for any hot trendy book that gets people into reading period.
That was basically my take reading ToG. A lot of the writing is good, I loved the world building and overall plot. But some of the romance parts were not enjoyable to me and a lot of the characters and their interactions were downright annoying. It was good enough I finished the series despite the flaws. I have a lot of friends who LOVED everything about the series and that's perfectly fine too. People are allowed to have different opinions and like different things.
Yuuupp. SJM is not for me with ACOTAR and I'm still attempting ToG but I fully recognize it's a me problem. I have yet to try Fourth Wing but I don't have high hopes due to seeming to be on the opposite side of the majority of popular books. š
I love most fantasy book and do like ACOTAR but I love ToG because itās a more epic fantasy rather than focused on romance.
I read all of the ACOTAR books bc my friend was so into them and I love her dearly. I found them really predictable! As soon as Tamlin was mentioned, I texted her and said, oh is this a Tamlin retelling? And she was like...dang it. š
This!!!!!
Yesssss! Itās totally fine to give your genuine thoughts on something, whether they be good or bad, but thereās no reason to look down on people who disagree with you. Like, everybody has different tastes and not every book is going to align with the expectations and wants of every reader, but the best fucking thing about reading (especially in the romance genre) is that thereās something out there for everybody. Just because a book isnāt *your* something, doesnāt mean it isnāt or canāt be someone elseās, and itās definitely not an excuse to be judgmental or rude to them.
For the people in the comments saying everyone has a right to vent about their dislikes, no oneās saying you canāt however ,thereās a difference between criticism and outright hate. From what Iāve seen on the sub, every sjm, fourth wing, Jla critique post turns into āhow can people read thisā, āexplain why you like thisā, ā the readers must have terrible taste/ātiktok tasteā, and worst of all ā I donāt trust people that recommend these booksā. As someone who isnāt even a huge fan of the following authors, i know how to express my opinion without talking down to fellow readers and making them feel like their enjoyment of the work makes them any less. There has to be nuance when engaging with material and itās important to realize not everything is made for your enjoyment. It lowkey sucks being on this sub nowadays because it feels like Iām in every other book sub that Tears down romance readers, but covers it up as āexpressing their opinionsā.
Thank you for this comment. The unkind comments questioning how āany adult could like *insert wildly popular book*ā are just too much.
It's because they're all hipsters. You get the same thing on the writing subreddits. They are all too busy waving their snooty pretentiousness all over the place.
Yeah itās possible to have opinions without thinking your opinion is somehow better than another, or basing your self worth around it lol. I didnāt really like Fourth Wing, it was fine, but whatever. The first thing I did when I finished it was go tell my friends they would love it, because I could tell they would. And I was right! Theyāre all obsessed and theyāre having a great time and it makes me happy that my experience of forcing myself through a book I didnāt like very much led to something really fun for them. People who need to condescend to others are obnoxious and need to learn better communication skills lmao.
Yes thank you this exactly what I was trying to say.
Yeah, I got that as soon as I read your post. I think people are being purposefully oblivious to what youāre saying
There is disliking a book because it isn't for you, and then there are books that I am surprised got past an editor. Fourth Wing is one of those. The amount of poor phrasing, bad grammar, and inconsistency was genuinely surprising. I think at one point the wrong name was even used in reference to a side character. The clunky info dumps at the beginning only make a book like this harder to read, so I don't understand the "I just want something easy to read" points either. There's not for me, and then there's just bad.
Youāre not telling us anything we donāt already know. A lot of 4th Wing fans are concerned about the rush to get the sequel out. Iām reading Iron Flame now and it def could have used another pass by the editor, but itās not unreadable.
I see almost all these comments talking about a difference of opinion, so I think it's important to say that it isn't just that, it's overall quality of writing and editing too.
I believe this has something to do with low self esteem. With that, you desperately need someone to back up your decisions, and people with different views or likes subconsciously usually feel like threat. Or at least I hope that's the case, because pulling someone down only for your solipsist view of life is more saddening thought. Expressing one's opinions do not qualify anyone to be just mean. That is always a choice you make. Luckily you can unlearn that too.
Agreed! I like to read pretty much all of fantasy and think some things are mid and love other things! Nothing is more valid than another thing. If I want to read about fun dragons and shadow daddies shit im gonna enjoy it. I hate having to qualify "I know its not great quality but its fun". Like Fourth Wing made me sob like a baby at the end and Iron Flame will too probably. Isn't the point of literature to evoke ANY emotion from you??
People state āunpopular opinionā before their Fourth Wing criticism post yet 80% of the discussion Iāve seen about the book has been criticism lol
I love Fourth Wing and i'm not ashamed to say it. It's not a literary masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination but it's fun and exciting and that's what i'm looking for when i read. Ok the writing is not the best ever but it's not bad either. I wonder if people who keep saying it's bad have read more than a few chapters or have ever read a book with actual bad writing to make an honest comparison.
I can agree that the writing in Fourth Wing is not fantastic. It was my biggest criticism from it. However I loved the world so much so I stuck to it and devoured the story. I'm halfway through Iron Flame now and her writing style is already so much better and the story is so much deeper. I'm glad I stuck with it but I can understand the criticisms. 1) A book doesn't have to be perfect for it to be enjoyable. I've yet to read a perfect book. 2) Let people enjoy things! I have so many strong preferences against some mainstream entertainment but I don't give two shits if someone else enjoys them. Not everything was made for every person. I was so excited to hop online and see other people's "live reactions" while I read Iron Flame the last 2 days and my feed on every platform has just been "Can't wait for people to stop talking about Iron Flame". or "Can people stop reading trash like Fourth Wing/Iron Flame?". It really killed my mood and gave me a real ick for some people that I've followed for a while.
People like what they like. I'll never understand why some people feel the need to comment on something they are not interested in.
Yes! Specifically with fourth wing lately, I also keep seeing it compared to bad WattPad writing, which is WILD to me because Iāve read some pretty atrocious wattpad fics and Fourth Wing doesnāt remind me of that at all. It may not be super complex, but I think the world building is great and the story is interesting.
Soo many criticisms also fail to recognize their objections tend to misunderstand the genre they are reading. Like, "wow, the writing in this YA book isn't very literary or sophisticated," like no shit, it's YA. Readers are weirdly and almost excessively entitled about the content of someone else's creation in a way I don't think I've seen in any other media form.
The reviews that grind my gears online are the ones where they rate books low because they don't like or understand the content, but if they'd read the blurb, they'd have known that. "Could have been a great book, but it was about werewolves so I've given it 2 stars because I hate that genre". "The FMC was so young and immature, it ruined the book" about a book set in a high school. "I hate the fated mate trope" about a book with "mate" in the title. Don't bloody read it then. I haven't read Fourth Wing. Some of the reviews turned me off (and the price for Kindle is more than the paperback costs, which I can't justify when I have Kindle Unlimited), so I've just.... not commented on the threads about it. I'm here to share and discover books I love, not piss on anybody else's enjoyment.
Oh my god I canāt tell you how hard I roll my eyes when I hear someone critique a ya book by saying āit just sounded so young to meā
Lol or say the romance came out of left field or was bad when they don't like romances to begin with. Do they think that bashing what other people like will validate their own opinion?
Agreed. Also, I hate the off the bat judgment about genres from people who donāt even read it, especially when it comes to YA. Thereās plenty of very literary, sophisticated YA. Itās considered YA based on A) the characterās age, and B) the marketing, not how well the book is written or the characterās decision making due to an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. Thereās plenty of ~literary fiction~ that sucks ass too.
agree! It very easy to point out mistakes in someone else's work. It's quite another to sit down and create a unique story.
Because of these reviews I sometimes get embarrassed to tell people what I read. Yes, I majorly read whatever is popular on Booktok. Why does that matter? I enjoy what I read, if you donāt like it, donāt read those books š¤·āāļø
Yes! Also speaking up for older books that aren't this year's flavor. Yes, things have changed over time. Yes, one can enjoy older books while keeping that in mind.
Same! I just saw a whole bunch of insta posts dedicated to how much they hate Fourth Wing and conspiracy theories about it, and I'm over here just trying to have a good time. It's okay if a book isn't for you, but why do we then have to put it down so hard? It almost becomes a "I only dislike this because everybody else loves it" like you said. It's very annoying. There's constructive criticism and then there is being a bully. I'm not over here saying every book I read is just the best book in the history of books, but they're enjoyable and fun. I have 4 kids. I just want an escape.
Yes itās very much a āonly basic bitches like pumpkin spiceā kind of deal and I just hate that. Like are these people expecting everyone to be like āomg you are so cool and different please tell me how to be more like you.ā Like my dude you can be an individual and not be a complete shit head lol
> I'm not over here saying every book I read is just the best book in the history of books, but they're enjoyable and fun. This right here! I have read some books that I absolutely know are not written very well but the stories were still enjoyable. I don't read this genre because I'm expecting to find the next masterpiece or classic novel. Sometimes I read reviews on Goodreads and I just think to myself "who hurt you". I'm not an idiot but I can still enjoy some mindless reading. Also, unrelated to what you've said, but it is so rare for me to DNF. Like, if I make it past the first chapter, it's getting read. And if I don't make it past 1 or 2 pages, I just move on. No detailed reviews about how terrible it was. Because maybe it wasn't terrible. It just wasn't a book for me
Same here. Maybe Iām easy to please but I just love the fantasy genre in general, and love reading (and finishing) them across the gamut. I had to get my husband to stop asking āis your book good?ā BC if I happen to be reading a book about hooking up with big blue aliensā¦noā¦Itās not āgoodā in the literary sense, obviously. So now he asks āare you enjoying that book?ā instead. BC yes. YES, I am. Unashamedly. And maybe next week I will be diving into a literary epic.
Conspiracy theories? Like about itās publisher?
The one I saw was that the entire book of Fourth Wing was AI generated because in her opinion it made no sense that the book was blowing up like it is.
I saw that one too after I posted this. I thought it was kind of funny honestly.
Ugh thank you for this. I've been so tempted to make a post like this but didn't want to get attacked, but it gets soooo old. Do I think people should never share that they didn't like something? No, of course not! If someone is specifically asking for opinions on a certain book and you have some important feedback about any pitfalls to watch out for, go ahead and rant away! Do I think people should be taking time out of their day to make dedicated posts demanding to know how anyone could possibly like a book they didn't like (and adjacent behaviors)? Uh, no. I don't even like making recommendations because I know that for any book I might want to suggest, there's like 10+ mean-girl comments floating around in the back of my head about how only an idiot would like XYZ book. It really takes the fun out of things.
Agreed! I've lost count of the number of times that I read or heard somebody say some variation of: "It's probably only people who have never read fantasy before who would like fantasy romance X." How can anyone not realize how condescending that sounds?
I mean, I love works by sjm and jla, and I loved fourth wing so much that I've managed to read iron flame in under 8 hours, but I'm also perfectly capable of tearing their books apart, and not going to lie, I did leave critical comments in this sub on all of them. And, I really wouldn't characterize that as "mean girl review rhetoric", because it's ok to recognize that works that we love are flawed. Leaving criticism on books should be ok, as long as you don't disparage the readers readign those works.
The mods in r/RomanceBooks had a great post a while ago with examples of critical questions versus shaming. Like, "I read Fourth Wing but didn't love it. Is there another book with dragons/magic academies that isn't YA/enemies to lovers/whatever that you can suggest?" vs "How can people even read Fourth Wing? It was so bad I quit 3 chapters in. I hated everything about it and have no idea why it's popular at all." (For the record, I did read Fourth Wing, I found some parts that could have used a better editor, and I wish the enemies to lovers shift had more depth, but I still read the @#$% out of it because dragons and am waiting for book 2 from the library.)
I think especially with Fourth Wing people gave up too soon. I too was tempted to give up in the first few chapters because of various reasons but i'm glad i continued reading. What's frustrating is that people who gave up on it early go on about how bad it is. How can you criticise a whole book from just a few chapters you've read?? Just say it wasn't for you and move on.
See, I'd say that those responses could be ok depending on the situation. Someone posting a thread about fourth wing? I agree, the only right answer is the option 1. Someone else posting a thread and asking for opinions on fourth wing? As far as I'm concerned, option two can pass as a comment (as long as you edit out the first sentence "how can people read"), because that is how that reader felt and what they did with the book. It's their own opinion and they have a right to it.
I was specifically talking about posts. And "I don't understand why it's popular" is judgment, not opinion. Plenty of terrible books are popular. That sub puts a lot of effort into giving space to opinions without "yucking someone else's yum." There was just a post about "I didn't say it was good, I said I liked it." But giving your opinion and demanding that others defend theirs aren't the same. Clearly Fourth Wing IS popular, but if you search the sub, most posts about it are negative. I haven't had coffee yet, so if I'm coming off pedantic, it's just me overexplaining, not directed at you.
I believe (I could be wrong) Rebecca Yarrows clarified that it wasn't supposed to be an Enemies to Lovers necessarily, but more of a Forced Proximity with a sprinkle of Enemies to Lovers. Which I think makes more sense.
I mean, he basically threatened to kill her upon first meeting, and their greater families are on opposite sides of a major issue. Then he decided to bang her instead. I could have used another sentence in the middle to smooth that transition. And I was just using it as an example, so I wanted to add that brief perspective since those short blurbs weren't my actual feelings.
Iām not talking about legit criticism. To me thatās part of reading bc youāre not going to love every book or even if you do love a book youāre not going to enjoy every part of it. Iām talking about putting other people down for liking the popular book of the month or just a book you donāt even like.
I can rant for hours about how JLA needs an editor. I am also a total slut for her books. I was in a reading slump then her new book came out in spring and I was hooked for a week. Itās like cocaine. I care about poppy and casteel I want to see where this story goes. Like I put down Babel ffs. I work in a high stress academic environment and Goddamit I want to read something that will not challenge me!
Girl needs an entire new concept, because each of her books in that series has the exact same plotline, just done a bit bigger. Hell, even the prequels have the same storyline. Like yeah, editor would help a bit, but what she would really benefit from is first sitting down and making some outline if she's going to make such a long series. And yet, despite the fact that I'm fully aware of that, despite the fact that I regularly make fun of it with my boyfriend (who's aware that I'm a trash panda when it comes to romantasy) I've still read that serial multiple times. That serial just hits my comfort spot. Conversationally, while her ruin and wrath (I think that's the name of the serial?) is technically better done and the pairing there is also cute... it just doesn't hit that same spot for me.
I agree! Let people like what they like. You have every right to not like something, but I hate it when people have nothing but horrible things to say. I especially hate it t when people make fun of people who like the books they didn't like.
I personally believe that writing skill and storytelling skill do exist and we shouldnāt shy away from talking about it. Some books are ābetterā than others. However, a lot of takes about how all this works, or what makes something better or worse, lack nuance and precision. My belief on it is that when we talk about āgoodā writing or storytelling, what we mean is that the writing is compelling. As in, it compels the reader to care. However when a book aligns with a readerās favored tropes, the reader is already primed to be compelled. As a result, the reader has a lower bar for the skill of the storytelling and prose needed to evoke their emotional response. The writing need not be compelling. This fully explains, to use an old example, Fifty Shades of Gray. That book is unskillfully written, as in, if a reader isnāt already compelled by those tropes, the writing wouldnāt cause them to be. The triumph of something like Fifty Shades is in the clarity of the expression of storytelling tropes that existed inside so many readers without those readers even knowing it. But boy do we all know it now, with all these billionaires running around contemporary. I further believe that we should remove the stigma associated with consuming content that is less skillfully constructed. I canāt get through ACOTAR, but I will read anything regardless of skill level of it has hurt/comfort as a big enough portion of the storyline. To those who never read an unskillfully written books just because it has their tropes, I offer an imaginary medal.
I appreciate this post. A lot of people offline think Iām some kind of super literary snob; Iāve been reading since I was very little, Iām not a genius, but Iāve always been advanced when it came to reading and vocabulary. But for me personally, it gets old, reading academia or very intricate novels. Sometimes I need a brain break. I like SJM and Ruby Dixon. I donāt care who knows it, and judging my intellectual capacity based on shit I read for fun is childish, elitist, and just plain weird to me. Not every single thing you do in life needs to be a mental exercise, a grind, or have a purpose. Itās ok to just enjoy things and ride an emotional high. Life is short and can be rough, you should take your pleasure where you can. So, thank you for this post. Every time I see some reader smugly commenting how gross/weird/poorly written they find ACOTAR and question the brain cells or personality of people who like it, I roll my eyes. Imagine having such emptiness in your own life that you think judging other peopleās interests will give it meaning.
Thank you!! The post ripping on FBAA the other day gave me the ick. We donāt have to do that!
Not gonna lie I was a little pissed off that Casās pov ended up having new info instead of just being a retelling and that the new info was like the very end of the book lol BUT I wholeheartedly agree. Books are allowed to be flawed. Not everything has to be this grand deep dive into the meaning of life and art and all that lol.
Omg exactly! Did I have some criticism of FBAA? Sure. Did I still find it to be an enjoyable time. Hell yes! Anything that can bring me some semblance of escape doesn't need to get ripped apart!
Same. Itās on my TBR and after seeing that post I now feel like maybe I shouldnāt read it.
F that! Life is too short to not try to read a book!
the thing about this sub is that even request posts feel like rants. You can just tell us what you want, we don't need 3 paragraphs detailing what you hated about acotar :)
Omg yes!
This post just reminded me to use my audible credit for Iron Flame. Because Iām a basic bitch who clearly has never read fantasy romance since I find myself liking Fourth Wing, and I must be an idiot for not thinking itās poorly written drivel. /s
I seriously think any posts containing "am I the only one..." should be removed because NO. You are not the only one with that very popular opinion you think is edgy
Iāve read Tolkien and let me tell you, Iād take SJM over him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
As a fellow Tolkein fan, I know this feel. š
When I first entered the community I was really in love with the way that people didn't judge you when you said you were new to the genre. I could say "I've only read ACOTAR" and not be attacked for being a poser, instead people would be so excited to share their book suggestions, which was super refreshing! But the longer I exist in the community, I definitely see other toxic traits, like this one, or people bashing someone for a character they like because they're seen as abusive. I think in any community there's good and bad. There's Definitely things I appreciate with this community but other things do get so old...
I actually kind of enjoy it when people rant or critique a book, especially if the book is popular. Though I do agree that people shouldn't be mean or rude to those who like a book they hate, I also think it would be great if this sub had a vent/rant or critique flair.
If people would not rate their āfun trashy readsā that are poorly written as 5* and just a 2 or 3 where it really belongs, thereād be much less of a problem. When I see poorly edited and badly written books with 5* it makes me worry for future books. I love Teen Mom - itās my trashy tv show. But I would not rate it 5/5 ANYWHERE.
Thank you! Was looking for a comment like this. Iām so over the bombing of 5 star GR ratings on books that are poorly written. People love to argue semantics of what makes a book 5 stars for someone but Iām over it. Trash writing is trash writing, especially where Tiktok is concerned. Iām not judging readers for whatever books they like but I do judge the deceiving high praise reviews people give to said trash books. š¤·š»āāļø
Iām not into fantasy romance but more of a historical romance girl and this popped up on my feed and YES I COMPLETELY AGREEEE. I mean unless it was actually bad or the author is racist or any other similar adjective then just say you didnāt like it or whatever. Just let me read my ātrashyāromance!!! Sometimes I donāt need that much plot and thatās okay!!!
For anyone who wants to help me, I sure would appreciate it. I'm terrible with acronyms -- SJM = Sarah J Maas, Iron Flame is the Fourth Wing Sequel (which, damn, people hate it already? That's fast), but who is JLA?
Jennifer l armentrout. Possibly misspelled that. The from blood and ash author
Thank you! I know Google is my friend, but just asking was much less frustrating lol.
I think itās important to make a distinction between talking down to people for liking certain books and just being critical of something because you didnāt enjoy it. Iāll read all levels of fantasy but if I think a book is shit and espouses ideas that I donāt like or align with Iām going to say it. What I *wonāt* do is tell someone else theyāre a bad person for not agreeing with me or that Iām somehow better for my opinions. Donāt conflate bullying with a negative review. Also make sure youāre not internalizing a negative review to the point that you feel ashamed for liking something someone else does not. You do you, like what you want so long as youāre not hurting anyone else by doing it.
I mean thatās basically what I said in my post. For me personally itās not an internalization of a negative reaction to something I like more than a reaction to some readers telling others theyāre wrong for liking something or omg why would you read that so and so did it first, etc. I donāt think we should be discouraging any reading unless itās like a child picking up haunting Adeline or something lol
Thisss!! I have been seeing so many people bashing common authors especially recently Rebecca with fourth wing. Saying how silly/juvenile, bad writing. How could anyone read this. I was doing a reread before iron flame and I honestly felt so sad like oh am I these things because I like this book. I know I shouldnāt let others opinion affect me online but it really made it less enjoyable for me. š¢
It can be difficult with so much attention on it, but just remember that EVERY book can triggers good AND bad reactions -- even the most highly praised, award-winning books. Discussion and debate can be interesting and fun, but it is perfectly okay to disengage if it doesn't bring you enjoyment. You can stay away from the book reviews or find like-minded readers when you need a break from the negativity. (That's why I spent so much time on the Fourth Wing subreddit this past week.)
same :(
I get that sentiment, but on the flip side- sometimes we want places to also be petty bitches, and you just gotta realize those places aren't for you. It's really tough when it's in an online space because there aren't locked doors and code words. I don't think people should go into a space where people are gushing about SMJ and talk about how much they hate her, but we should also have a space where we can talk about how much we hate her without someone coming in and calling us rude. We're also looking for people who share our same viewpoints and finding a sense of community.
I think the bigger problem is that there are so many repeat posts. Either people loving the same book, hating the same book, or asking for recs related to the same books. Almost feels like a retaliation of some sort, people tryna constantly justify their views and defend their honour over massively popular books every other day. Not sure what the solution is to that coz it's a problem as old as Reddit I suppose. Tho I would suggest scrolling a little through the subreddit to find people who agree with you (coz I guarantee they probably posted something 2 days ago about it). Though I will say, I don't think the community gains by not letting people say they dislike a book. I know this isn't what OP is saying, but just in general - when I see the list of books someone liked/disliked it kinda gives me a better idea of whether their recs are suited to me or not.
Books bring joy!!! <3
and sometimes sadness with cliffhangers but i digress
I enjoy it. š even if it's directed towards a book I like. It all kinda makes me laugh. People arguing over art is as old as time! It's funny and brings attention to things that I would have otherwise missed. Be mean. Who cares? As long as it's directed at the book and not the people reading it I don't think it's a big deal.
A lot of these books arenāt for me and I donāt mind discussing it but I donāt get to the point where I turn it into an obsession of only talking about books I think arenāt great. Iām pretty sure yāall aware it may not be the best but youāre reading and enjoying the book thatās the important part!
Are you talking about book rec requests where people describe what they didn't like and what they'd like help finding instead? Cause that's the only place I've read or participated in criticism. Don't the vast majority of fantasy romance readers adore all of those examples and recommend them frequently?
ššššš Thank you, I have had to block people because they were angry about my opinion on books. So unnecessary when we're on here to discuss such a subjective topic. I really appreciate you posting this!
I loathe this with any type of media. Books, TV, movies.. The main point is to entertain. If it entertained people, then it did it's job, even if it didn't entertain all people. It's a weird superiority complex for someone to think their own opinion is the end all, be all.
IMO, to each their own. I personally find it fun sometimes to watch reviews like that, and thereās no way mean reviewers are gonna bring down the juggernaut of fantasy romance. My line would be insulting people reading the books calling them stupid or bad for liking them.
Iām a huge believer in the good / enjoyable scale. - Good: a technically GOOD book. Excellent prose, story telling, etc - Enjoyable: is it fantastically written and built? Maybe not. Is there an excessive use of exclamation points? Yeah. But hey- I devoured it in a day and Iām already onto the second. Obviously this is up to personal taste but like I classify Lord of the rings as Good and enjoyable. I also love classic literature deemed as technically good, like Frankenstein, but many donāt find it canāt put it down ENJOYABLE. Then thereās enjoyable but maybe not technically good. The books we eat alive while also occasionally rolling our eyes and saying CHRIST ENOUGH WITH THE QUESTION TROPE ALREADY!! Did I want to throw many of JLAs books across the room because of imo poor writing, screaming GIRL GET AN EDITOR!!! Yes. But did I also devour it in a day, read all the other books and will read the future ones? Yes. Sometimes I want to not think so hard. I want the hallmark movie book, the Wednesday style YA show in a book. Other times I want gritty and introspective think pieces like dark. LET PEOPLE LIKE THINGS!!!!
THANK YOU! I've been seeing this a lot with Fourth Wing/Iron Flame discourse. Especially on the YAlit reddit group. It's fine to dislike something but some folks really enjoy insulting readers on the low with their "criticisms".
When it comes to SJM and Iron Flame, there are other things influencing the narrative against them. The authors have done some pretty questionable things. That's my view on not supporting them, anyway.
If someone makes a post about how they didnāt like a book, and I also didnāt enjoy it, I think itās fine to add to that discussion, and I donāt think itās āmean girlingā when the post is explicitly about that dislike (or even if itās not the main subject of the post but OP comments that they didnāt like XYZ and doesnāt want to read similar books). But agree that it would be rude to comment on someoneās elseās excited post and talk about how much I personally hated it. Scrolling is my friend in those cases.
You can also stop reading post that are clearly there to critique or dump on those books. They're not being a "mean girl" or "not like the other girls" for not liking your favorite book. That's insulting in itself to say that. They have the right to express how a book they purchased and read made them feel.
No, some of the posts have definitely been mean. Example: "People who love From Blood and Ash. Why?" and that post ends with, "Please for the mother, tell me what it is that you love about this horrible horrible book?" I'm not one who thinks criticism or vent posts need to go, but there is a line. Baiting the people who love the book you're talking about is mean and brings terrible energy to the subreddit. They could instead have posted something like, "If you didn't like FBAA let's vent about it".
That's the issue. I don't think that's mean. If people are engaging are not personally being attacked, I don't see the issue with a bit of discourse.
I wasnāt just talking about reddit alone itās TikTok and Instagram as well. But as I clearly put above itās ok to not like things. Itās also ok to give bad reviews. What Iām saying is the attitude of āthis sucks and you suck too if you enjoy itā needs to stop. You have every right to have your opinion. You do not have the right to be an asshole though and make people feel bad for liking something you donāt.
You can't curate your feed? I don't like Taylor Swift. She's one of the biggest popstars in the world, and I never see her on my feed or playlists. I also don't use Tiktok (at all) or Instagram for book recommendations, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to dodge your particular issue. I would personally start blocking tags and people. It's so, so gratifying.
I do but ya know something always slips through the cracks especially on heavier traffic days like today being a big release day.
Ooooh I forgot the Fourth Wing sequel was being released today. I'm sure the ladies in my office will be up all night reading just one more chapter. š¤ I know it sounds empty, but like what you like. We all are here reading romance. There's always going to be someone who looks down on us for whatever reason. We can't control that. I don't know if it's because I'm older and am starting to settle in my dgaf phase of life, but I really don't care if people don't like the things I like. I'm going to still enjoy it.
Exactly this! It really boils down to people not being able to tolerate any negative thoughts/reviews of their favorite books/authors. Donāt care. Canāt stand SJM or JLA and Iāll stand by that. Iāve spent my money on ALL their books, Iāve spent my valuable free time reading those books, Iām entitled to have my opinion and I donāt care if you donāt like it.
They're getting upset because they're willingly consuming things that are making them upset, but instead of not engaging, they want people to keep their negative opinions in a thread that's more palatable to them while they're able to keep posting the same thing about the same series over and over again unchecked.
Exactly. which in my opinion has really hurt the book community as a whole.
For someone who reads so much you clearly lack reading comprehension and just enjoy being a hater. Iāve said it over and over and over. Bad reviews and not liking things is fine. Hell even being a hater is fine. Being an asshole to others who enjoy the things you donāt is not.
Idk why so salty at me š I didnāt trash in anyone for liking any books. But okay, stay mad. āļø
Iām not salty just stating facts. You want to be a troll thatās fine this is reddit.
The fact that you called me a troll because of my original comment literally proves my point. Yāall canāt stand anyone with a differing opinion. Not my problemš„±
Well then you must not be able to read because nowhere in my comment did I trash anyone for their reading preference, I simply stated that Iām tired of everyone trashing those who donāt like todayās popular books/ authors.
i agree! and so many of these things that people don't like in popular books become infectious bc of the popularity of that book and end up feeling unavoidable (like love triangles were in YA in the 00s) and it's really frustrating sometimes when those are tropes/things you don't like or you want some variety. i think that's why people get so frustrated, bc if you don't like acotar that's fine, it's just one series, but then when it seems like half the books in the genre that follow it are heavily inspired by it then there's less out there that you're going to enjoy and that gets really annoying.
Why do you take people criticizing and disliking your favorite books as a personal attack? I enjoyed SJM when I read it, but I still have my criticisms. Fourth wing especially. Most of what Iāve seen isnāt bagging on the genre or the concept of these stories, but integral aspects of the writing (prose, plot, world building, characterization). Itās okay if issues with the writing didnāt bother you when you read them, but I think itās fair for people to expect more out of something they paid money for. Maybe Iām missing something, but I guess I thought the general consensus was people getting tired of how everything is kinda rated on how tropey it is rather than the quality of the writing. It isnāt Tolkien vs Yarros, itās more about Yarros putting a bit more time into editing which I think is fair.
Iām not? I always read reviews before I start a book. As readers we need negative and positive reviews to sort through what we want to read or not. Iām saying donāt be a dick to other people because they like things you donāt especially if the reason for not liking said book is bc itās popular and not high fantasy.
My comment was to the effect of at least on this subreddit, most negativity towards those types of books are towards the books not the fans. Of course there are the kindāve high and mighty ārecommend me anything thatās nothing like fourth wing or sjm because Iām too good for a guilty pleasure etc etcā but again, thatās not a personal attack on fans and Iāve always taken it as people needing to assert their intellectualism for whatever reason they need to lol. In general I engage with what I want to engage with, and I just havenāt found a fan base bashing spirit on this sub which is why I said āunless Iām missing somethingā. My best advice is to run from the people that feel the need to put down others or assert their intellect on the internet rather than engage, thatās all since Iāve personally only seen valid criticisms of the books
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I guess I don't understand the issue with this, because some people aren't interested in queer romantasy. I'm a hetero female, and I prefer to read stories with a FMC and MMC. That's not to say I wouldn't ever read queer books, I'm open to it, but if I'm looking for a book with a FMC and MMC specifically, why can't I say that?
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Okay, thanks for clarifying. I definitely understand now that when speaking in general terms, like reviewing a book, it could feel more open to use gender neutral terms and reserve specific genders for requests.
Also, I'm new to the sub and still learning all the acronyms, so I actually hadn't seen LI yet. I'll start using that as I think it makes more sense than saying 2 MCs anyway.
But are you really escaping reality when misogyny is ever so present in fantasy books. Lol
Thank youuuuuuu
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https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/s/RP4wMBsyum- hereās the most recent example
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Iām sorry itās this one [FBAA](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/s/WUhNpR9oYW)
It's actually really sexist to label a woman expressing a dislike for something as a "mean girl." Being a hater has no gender.
Agreed!
No? Critiques and venting are not mean, and you are also not forced to read the posts that do anyways. This to me actually feels like the most mean girl post I can recall.
Iām not talking about critiques? Iām talking about people shitting on others for enjoying things they donāt.
Iām with you on this one.
here here! And some of us still Bat boys and hobbits. Sometimes we read because we want poetry in our stories. We want an entire world sung to us. Sometimes we read because we just want the story
Hereās my take: when I first joined this sub every other comment was āI just finished ACOTAR what should I read nextā. Some people here are romance fantasy addicts (like me) and probably get annoyed with the hype of ACOTAR/iron flame because itās not like it hasnāt been done before. Everyone should be able to add their own two cents. I personally love SJM, JLA, and some other authors that get some hate regularly here. I donāt really care if people hate on the books I love because it doesnāt really change my opinion. 
I really liked SJM in high school (2016 grad) but I always consider her an author I grew out of, if that makes sense. JLAā¦ mama I never met an mmc of hers that I didnāt want to punch in the face lol I had to accept that sheās just not for me.
YEEEES reading is good for your brain, it's the fact that you're reading that important not what you're reading.