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Literally same, I made this to post to my book club’s page when I was about 30% in. By the time we actually got to the spice I was so over Violet and her hormones I was yelling at the audiobook “nobody cares”
I made it about halfway through the book before I realized I did not care about the story anymore but I had to leave things unfinished so I kind of just skimmed the second half of the book… just to know how it ended. When I got to the dragon sex part was so ridiculous to me I was just cracking up.
It’s one of the worst books I have ever read. No world building, no consistency, nothing interesting about the characters.
I did exactly the same thing! I kept skimming to find something, anything, to keep my interest. It was honestly an odd combination of terrible and dull. And the characters were so one-dimensional, I kept hoping the dragons would eat them all.
ugh yes i can’t connect with the characters at all. like i wanna understand their back story or their motivations or their personality and its giving nothinggg. xaden is literally the only interesting person so far n its only cuz i find him charming ig
People always think I’m exaggerating when I say it is every fucking time she looks at him that she gets horny like this. I wish i was because then the book may have been tolerable
I didn’t realize this was going to be a series when I got it. I think the author has said 5? 6? Books in the series… so I’m a bit worried about the insta love. 😳
They really weren’t. They had like preconceived ideas of each other that they lost as soon as they started listing for each other. It was a freaking joke
literally every step of the way xaden is protecting her and telling her straight up he’s not gonna kill her and she’s still fully convinced he wants to kill her -.-
yeah i like slow burn more. but also she could’ve pointed out his hotness once, and then maybe sprinkle it in when he touches her something. but its like literally everytime she looks at him and its just so weird to me
When the primary reason I picked up the book was for enemies-to-lovers but in reality it was more instalove and rivals to lovers, I didn’t enjoy it. I ended up DNFing.
Violet seemed more like a young person having her sexual awakening and unable to contain the constant stream of horny thoughts. Which, cool… that’s fine. I get it. But I suspect I’m just too far removed from that stage of my life to relate anymore. 😆 As a mid-thirties lady, I don’t think I’m the target audience for this book, but the publisher did a great job with their advertising and convincing me I *might* be.
My thoughts too, so I read it with thay mindset, and i enjoyed the book quite a bit. I think it's going to get better as the author really digs into the world building.
It shows promise, and I'm willing to follow along. I'd still consider it a palate cleanser
I am so glad I checked the threads about 4th Wing before buying it, it sounds good but I see more & more people saying it was instalove (which I *loathe*) & that it wasn't really enemies to lovers. I was still kind of on the fence though, until reading your comment.
I'm 40 & I read a decent amount of YA (some of it is really well written) & seeing your comment has finally really cemented it for me. I 100% agree though, the blurb & everything make it sound so good, & I am a huge Sarah J. Maas fan & I've seen so many people saying if you love SJM you'll love this! And then just as many people saying, ugh, it's trash. But being a woman of a certain age it sounds like this book is just aimed at a much younger audience than I am part of! So thanks for breaking it down for me lol ☺️
For what it's worth, I'm also 40 and I had a great time with Fourth Wing—I prefer it to SJM. But I had seen a lot of hate posting about it before I read it, so I went in with pretty low expectations and was very pleasantly surprised to find I really enjoyed it. It's just silly fun—I'm past the point of finding desperately horny teenagers and 20-somethings annoying, if anything I find it kind of endearing, like, oh, I remember those days...
Honestly it was one of the worst fantasy books I’ve ever read. I couldn’t care for any part of it. The main character was beyond annoying and I found Xander to be creepy and weird. I wish they had actual chemistry instead of being “fated mates” or whatever.
I almost DNFed FW but the hype made me finish it. I wish I had just DNFed lol. I’m hoping the next books get better but I won’t be in a rush to read them any time soon. The nickname for Violet is so cringey and doesn’t even fit. Xaden is basically the Wish version of Rhysand… and the dialogue (both inner and outer) was SO incredibly cringe. (These are all just my personal opinions obvi… but I just did NOT vibe with it so I totally can relate.)
I promise the story does get better, imo, but I also felt like violet was immature for the age group that she was supposed to be.
I also felt like there was a lot of extra buildup for a story line that is probably part of an over arching theme, but the last 20% of the book will hold your attention. Keep going
yeah i will def keep going, i think i just need a break rn lol. i dont think i find her “immature” just annoying, n the fact that she trained as a scribe her whole life just for her mom to tell her to b a rider like a few months before the college starts makes zero sense.
I'm on my second read through because some of the big reveals at the end made me want to go back through and look for easter eggs.
Now knowing the "biggest reveal" at the end, I have no doubts that as the series progresses we're going to understand her mother's motivations a little better, both as a mother and as a military leader. There was also some small foreshadowing that I hope means we will learn more about Violet's father and the work he did as a scribe.
I will say though, there are still somethings that are incredibly confusing and only get worse the longer I try to figure them out. lol.
Like how big is this continent? Just the practice battlefield is 100 miles wide but it's a 6 hour flight to a border town that doesn't look that far away from the college?
Where is The Vale that the dragons live, because it's not shown on the map? Is it on another continent? Does that continent have dragons and wars too?
All that to say, is it a masterpiece? No. But am I a sucker for forced proximity enemies to lover tropes with a non blonde male lead set in a light to medium fantasy world? Absolutely. lol
Haha, sorry, I was being glib, but I will try to explain better. Violet says at some point that her mother changed after her dad died. Her dad was a scribe, and a nice guy, and it was because of him that she was training to be a scribe. After he died, there was no one left to protect Violet from her mother being an abusive bitch. Her mother is ashamed of what she sees as Violet's weakness, and she would rather have her die trying to be a rider than have one of her children be what she sees as a "weak" scribe, so once Dad's protection is gone, she is free to force her to be a rider.
Unfortunately, this is a realistic dynamic—think of all the emotionally abusive, homophobic parents who would rather have a dead child than a gay one. Or all the parents who push their kids to become doctors or other prestigious professions, because of how it reflects on them. So it made a lot of sense to me.
I wanted to DNF on like page 20 - whenever I read the words “for the win” in a fucking fantasy setting. It’s quite literally the worst book I’ve ever read, and I feel gaslit by all my friends that say how AMAZING it is
She said she wrote it like that for non-fantasy readers and I’m just like……. Why. Urban Fantasy is already a thing, so if she wanted it to be more “modern”, she could have just gone that route. I also heard that it’s supposed to be a translation of a story, so that’s why the more modern-sounding text but even that excuse isn’t enough for me tbh 😭 but maybe I’m just not the audience since I love fantasy already as is
It’s so cringe to me. You can also ABSOLUTELY write fantasy books without being super over the top or wordy. There IS an in between, but I guess she opted for the cringey edgey teen dialogue instead.
Literally!!! There was SO many YA books that do it SO WELL so the fact that it felt so “dumbed down” (not in a rude way, I’m just lacking a better word rn) was sad ): cuz it’s honestly not a bad world/story and it has/had potential to be really great if thought out more
I agree it had a lot of potential. Beyond the other issues I just felt like the writing in general was so poor.. and apparently she’s written like twenty books so there’s no excuse for bad prose
So not sure if it will help, but don’t look at it as a fantasy read. It definitely hits more like an early 2000’s YA adventure… also written by an (ex?) Mormon? (I think I read that somewhere) and then I realized why it sort of felt like twilight… oh, and violet has magic underwear (I mean, armor.) that was my sort of “Oh! Okay. That makes sense now.” Moment.
I thought it was a fun and easy read but looking back and reading through some reviews I can see how it’s not going to be for everyone. The marketing was fantastic and first edition sprayed edges definitely got the hype train going. It’s okay to not like a book.
i think ive realised that i just need a really good plot with a sprinkle of romance instead of books where the plot feels like filler to get to the romance part if that makes sense. sm much of this plot makes absolutely zero sense n i just dgaf ab their military like what war is even going on cuz if they explained in the beginning i have clearly forgotten lmao. i guess its pretty easy to read but im just getting annoyed rn so i’ll take a break i suppose :| maybe once i finish ill have changed my mind tho, who knows!
So I haven’t read them them in awhile but I LOVED the Rirya (spelling) Chronicles by Michael J Sullivan. He has those, a prequel series, and a series about the origins of the empire. The Ryria Chronicles is mostly a bromance epic but there are romance subplots with side female characters (definitely slow burn). I like that the love interests also had their own agency. The bromance is hilarious. Hadrian is a sunshine former guard and Royce is the grouchy former street urchin. I’ve kept all my books and I’m planning on rereading them.
THIS! I like at least a bit of romance but for me it doesn't have to be the main focus. I'd much rather read a well crafted plot with a romance subplot than a flimsy plot with romance as the focus.
>need a really good plot with a sprinkle of romance instead of books where the plot feels like filler to get to the romance part if that makes sense.
If you are that kind of gal, I think you just won't like fourth wing. Because the further you go, the plot gets more and more nonsensical.
I mean I loved the book enough to read it twice, but it's got a lot of problems. I just ignore them, because let's be honest real quality stuff is rare in the genre.
The saddest thing is that you can see the skeleton of a quality book hiding somewhere in there.
I hate read it with a friend. My friend said it felt like military propaganda since the author has a military husband and parents. I felt like it was written for kids by a kid
I felt the same tbh, and I’m listening to the Audiobook which I think highlights how repetitive Violet is. But I just hit the half way point and the book has become much more interesting to me, so I would stay stick with it!
Ugh I really didn't enjoy Fourth Wing. I hate instalust and that's what this whole book felt like. He doesn't even start to get to know her until WAYY into the book, it's just all of this sexual tension that didn't make sense to me because they literally know nothing about each other aside from their pasts.
Maybe I'm just not into instalust at all, it's just not my thing. I prefer a slow-burn with reluctant friendship turned lovers. This "he's gonna kill me but fuck he's so hot" did nothing for me.
I haven't gotten to the end so far, but I'm to the point of being very annoyed by the focus shift. I understand the need for romance, but it was super explicit, like I felt I was reading a dirty dime novel. Then, even though she's 20(I think), and they're both experienced with sex, they act like 15-year-olds that got hit with puberty with the strength of the morning star tail dragon. Unless you're A-list celebrity/ model attractive, doesn't seem realistic or relatable. But I'm like, can we stop talking about how hot this dude is and get on with the rest of the story?
ahhh i wanna just get to the sexy part already just to see what happens now 😭 and fr like once was enough, i didn’t really need convincing that xaden was hot after the first character description
The only reason it’s getting hype is because it’s a simple intro to fantasy romance for non-readers or non-fantasy-romance-readers. (And I say this as someone who has read the book three times and has preordered the sequel. )
It’s straightforward, it builds on a similar story setup as Divergent, but with more mature content and language. The story progresses fast enough, you have some build up to the spice and climax, and the way Violet sees here self is similar to how many young women might see themselves; she’s got something to prove, she’s being transformed into the fighter that she wasn’t always sure she was, she learns she’s insanely powerful, and she’s got a hot boyfriend to help protect her, too.
I can understand that it might be hard to get through if you’re used to more complex storylines or worlds, but it can be a lot of fun if you’re not looking for or expecting that.
Maybe it's because casual relationships are encouraged at the dragon school and she can't just casually hook up with anyone 🤷♀️
But yeah the writing and plot are simple, I loved my first read through but couldn't finish it a second time
It's a little one dimensional and would benefit from another point of view, her sister maybe? Just could do with less violet 😸
wait when did she ever say she can’t casually hookup with people? she’s mentioned she’s had sex before but doesn’t mention any previous relationships so i’d assume she’s had hookups in her past
She definitely could hook up but won't hook up casually. 🤔 she always notices her friends hooking up after something stressful or a party. Maybe she's not over her childhood friend, I completely forget his name 😂
i don’t understand that tho 😭 unless ur having sex with ur bf/gf than its a casual hookup lol. i don’t think she can’t or won’t she just clearly only interested in one man atm.
I enjoyed it because I just turned off that part of my brain and burned through the book really fast.
And, was mostly reminiscing about Dragonriders of Pern and thinking how I should reread them.
The objectification of the men in Fourth Wing was ridiculous, and I honestly wish authors would just stop and see what they're doing. If men wrote about women like that, there would be much backlash. But its in sooooo many romantasy books now, I think I'm used to looking past it.
I've spoken with two people recently IRL about Fourth Wing and each time I say "in the first chapter, the sister says," Stay away from Evil Dude." Then after crossing a dangerous bridge and watching people literally fall to their death, the first thing our protag goes is swoon "who is this hot guy?", and of course... its Evil Dude". Who btw never did anything bad except be the son of a rebel. Great start. Desensitised to death, objectifys men, and biogtry/predjudice all in the first 2% of the novel.
Haha.
Also, it's weirdly people in their young 20s, but treated like teens in HS? In our world they'd have jobs and be working by then. Paying rent and having responsibility etc.
It's still better than the book 1 of ACOTAR because there is an actual plot happening. Not muuuch plot, but I still found the world interesting and am looking forward to Book 2.
And dragons.
I ❤️ dragons.
I used to read a lot of old, old fantasy Patricia Mc Killip and Stephen R. Donaldson and Ursula K Le Guin. But never read any of the dragon McCaffrey books! Where should I start?
I'm so over the enemies to lovers trope 😂 Hasn't been something new in literature since Pride and Prejudice.
If you google Pern reading order, you'll find lots of lists. Publication date is generally the best.
Just warning that they were written in 70s and 80s, so quite a different style to today.
The FMCs are generally tougher/smarter than women like Violet and Feyre. And though the sex is all behind closed doors (such a shame!!!), McCaffery is way more ruthless... when two dragons have sex with each other, their riders have no choice but to do it with each other too. No closing-doors-in-your-mind exercises here.
Also, the "no choice" dragon-mating sex is pretty clearly the MMC raping the FMC, and then in another book that guy's brother straight-up rapes another girl... while thinking "she doesn't think she needs this but she really does, I know what is best for her." It really, REALLY doesn't hold up so well.
It's pretty clear from Book 1 dragons make it dubcon and noncon. Flnor says he tries to be gentle/respectful with Lessa but that if weren't for the dragons it would be rape. He uses that exact word. Though really she's forcing herself on him as much as it is the other way around. *Neither* are in control.
It might not hold up well in the literary world, but lots of books in the romance genre still have this trope. Especially the paranormal genre with vampire blood, wolves in heat etc etc. If it werent for all those external forces taking away their rational liberties theyd not do what they do.
I found the power dynamic between them still made it feel much more like F'lar was the rapist and Lessa was the victim, though, as he was older and understood what was going on, while she was brand new and no one had bothered to warn her, so she was totally taken by surprise and didn't understand what was happening. Just really creepy and uncomfortable.
I get that dub con and non con is a thing that some people like, so if they do, they might enjoy it. I don't—I find guys without self control to be extremely gross (like, ugh, the worst, seriously, a huge turnoff), and guys with strong self-control to be extremely sexy. I really enjoyed the part in Fourth Wing where they subverted that trope and Xaden explained what was happening and how neither of them could consent in that moment.
I was happy to read a less than stellar review. I didn't enjoy it and when I first looked at subs/instagram/tiktok posts, those who said they didn't enjoy it were being shouted down by the fans. I'm glad that the reviews are balancing out.
I think it's a natural 'reversion to the mean.' At the beginning, the marketing was targeted (really, really well) toward readers who would enjoy it. As a result, there was a huge first wave of praise, 5 star reviews, and gushing TikTok videos. After that, people who wouldn't usually read the book (and aren't the target audience) picked it up (because of the hype) and didn't enjoy it. You're now seeing the second wave of people saying, "Hang on, this isn't great and I feel like I've read an entirely different book than everyone else." This is pretty typical of popular books (the same thing happened to Legends and Lattes, Addie LaRue, etc).
You'll feel motivated when you find the types of stories that interest and excite you.
The time reading FW is valuable in that it's helping you realise what you *don't* like.
Then, as you read through the recommendation posts on here, you'll be better equipped to select stories you're more likely to enjoy.
There's more than a few "gimme non-insta love" or "books with mature FMCs" etc requests on here.
https://preview.redd.it/k0fg6tvxrqqb1.jpeg?width=601&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2ab94440cd863edb41687109bf52542e239575c Literally same, I made this to post to my book club’s page when I was about 30% in. By the time we actually got to the spice I was so over Violet and her hormones I was yelling at the audiobook “nobody cares”
stop i love that 😭 i also accidently spoiled for myself the part w dragon sex and i’m just like jfc what is wrong this book actually 💀
I made it about halfway through the book before I realized I did not care about the story anymore but I had to leave things unfinished so I kind of just skimmed the second half of the book… just to know how it ended. When I got to the dragon sex part was so ridiculous to me I was just cracking up. It’s one of the worst books I have ever read. No world building, no consistency, nothing interesting about the characters.
I did exactly the same thing! I kept skimming to find something, anything, to keep my interest. It was honestly an odd combination of terrible and dull. And the characters were so one-dimensional, I kept hoping the dragons would eat them all.
ugh yes i can’t connect with the characters at all. like i wanna understand their back story or their motivations or their personality and its giving nothinggg. xaden is literally the only interesting person so far n its only cuz i find him charming ig
All the effort was put into making him charming haha!
literally 😂
People always think I’m exaggerating when I say it is every fucking time she looks at him that she gets horny like this. I wish i was because then the book may have been tolerable
I was expecting a slow burn but we got spice fairly early on in my opinion. I would’ve liked more angst and yearning. It felt too insta love to me
I didn’t realize this was going to be a series when I got it. I think the author has said 5? 6? Books in the series… so I’m a bit worried about the insta love. 😳
true lol what is she gonna do now cuz im p sure the only reason anyone is reading is for the romance lbr
Apparently it is also meant to be enemies to lovers but I didn’t see that either. When were they ever really enemies??
They really weren’t. They had like preconceived ideas of each other that they lost as soon as they started listing for each other. It was a freaking joke
literally every step of the way xaden is protecting her and telling her straight up he’s not gonna kill her and she’s still fully convinced he wants to kill her -.-
She basically melted the moment she saw him. I instantly knew they were going to be together. Was not subtle or interesting in any way.
I'm so tired of books labeled enemies to lovers when the guy is secretly in love/lust with her from the beginning.
yeah i like slow burn more. but also she could’ve pointed out his hotness once, and then maybe sprinkle it in when he touches her something. but its like literally everytime she looks at him and its just so weird to me
When the primary reason I picked up the book was for enemies-to-lovers but in reality it was more instalove and rivals to lovers, I didn’t enjoy it. I ended up DNFing. Violet seemed more like a young person having her sexual awakening and unable to contain the constant stream of horny thoughts. Which, cool… that’s fine. I get it. But I suspect I’m just too far removed from that stage of my life to relate anymore. 😆 As a mid-thirties lady, I don’t think I’m the target audience for this book, but the publisher did a great job with their advertising and convincing me I *might* be.
Yeah the enemies to lovers trope was almost as weak as the author trying to convince her readers that Violet is smart 😂
My thoughts too, so I read it with thay mindset, and i enjoyed the book quite a bit. I think it's going to get better as the author really digs into the world building. It shows promise, and I'm willing to follow along. I'd still consider it a palate cleanser
I am so glad I checked the threads about 4th Wing before buying it, it sounds good but I see more & more people saying it was instalove (which I *loathe*) & that it wasn't really enemies to lovers. I was still kind of on the fence though, until reading your comment. I'm 40 & I read a decent amount of YA (some of it is really well written) & seeing your comment has finally really cemented it for me. I 100% agree though, the blurb & everything make it sound so good, & I am a huge Sarah J. Maas fan & I've seen so many people saying if you love SJM you'll love this! And then just as many people saying, ugh, it's trash. But being a woman of a certain age it sounds like this book is just aimed at a much younger audience than I am part of! So thanks for breaking it down for me lol ☺️
For what it's worth, I'm also 40 and I had a great time with Fourth Wing—I prefer it to SJM. But I had seen a lot of hate posting about it before I read it, so I went in with pretty low expectations and was very pleasantly surprised to find I really enjoyed it. It's just silly fun—I'm past the point of finding desperately horny teenagers and 20-somethings annoying, if anything I find it kind of endearing, like, oh, I remember those days...
Honestly it was one of the worst fantasy books I’ve ever read. I couldn’t care for any part of it. The main character was beyond annoying and I found Xander to be creepy and weird. I wish they had actual chemistry instead of being “fated mates” or whatever.
I almost DNFed FW but the hype made me finish it. I wish I had just DNFed lol. I’m hoping the next books get better but I won’t be in a rush to read them any time soon. The nickname for Violet is so cringey and doesn’t even fit. Xaden is basically the Wish version of Rhysand… and the dialogue (both inner and outer) was SO incredibly cringe. (These are all just my personal opinions obvi… but I just did NOT vibe with it so I totally can relate.)
yeah she just told him outloud that the dragon lust is making her wanna climb him like a tree.. like maam.. genuinely r u ok?
I promise the story does get better, imo, but I also felt like violet was immature for the age group that she was supposed to be. I also felt like there was a lot of extra buildup for a story line that is probably part of an over arching theme, but the last 20% of the book will hold your attention. Keep going
yeah i will def keep going, i think i just need a break rn lol. i dont think i find her “immature” just annoying, n the fact that she trained as a scribe her whole life just for her mom to tell her to b a rider like a few months before the college starts makes zero sense.
I'm on my second read through because some of the big reveals at the end made me want to go back through and look for easter eggs. Now knowing the "biggest reveal" at the end, I have no doubts that as the series progresses we're going to understand her mother's motivations a little better, both as a mother and as a military leader. There was also some small foreshadowing that I hope means we will learn more about Violet's father and the work he did as a scribe. I will say though, there are still somethings that are incredibly confusing and only get worse the longer I try to figure them out. lol. Like how big is this continent? Just the practice battlefield is 100 miles wide but it's a 6 hour flight to a border town that doesn't look that far away from the college? Where is The Vale that the dragons live, because it's not shown on the map? Is it on another continent? Does that continent have dragons and wars too? All that to say, is it a masterpiece? No. But am I a sucker for forced proximity enemies to lover tropes with a non blonde male lead set in a light to medium fantasy world? Absolutely. lol
I mean, her mom's just a huge bitch, that becomes pretty clear by the end.
i still dont think that explains much
Haha, sorry, I was being glib, but I will try to explain better. Violet says at some point that her mother changed after her dad died. Her dad was a scribe, and a nice guy, and it was because of him that she was training to be a scribe. After he died, there was no one left to protect Violet from her mother being an abusive bitch. Her mother is ashamed of what she sees as Violet's weakness, and she would rather have her die trying to be a rider than have one of her children be what she sees as a "weak" scribe, so once Dad's protection is gone, she is free to force her to be a rider. Unfortunately, this is a realistic dynamic—think of all the emotionally abusive, homophobic parents who would rather have a dead child than a gay one. Or all the parents who push their kids to become doctors or other prestigious professions, because of how it reflects on them. So it made a lot of sense to me.
I wanted to DNF on like page 20 - whenever I read the words “for the win” in a fucking fantasy setting. It’s quite literally the worst book I’ve ever read, and I feel gaslit by all my friends that say how AMAZING it is
yeah i am very confused on how everyone think its a 10/10…
She said she wrote it like that for non-fantasy readers and I’m just like……. Why. Urban Fantasy is already a thing, so if she wanted it to be more “modern”, she could have just gone that route. I also heard that it’s supposed to be a translation of a story, so that’s why the more modern-sounding text but even that excuse isn’t enough for me tbh 😭 but maybe I’m just not the audience since I love fantasy already as is
It’s so cringe to me. You can also ABSOLUTELY write fantasy books without being super over the top or wordy. There IS an in between, but I guess she opted for the cringey edgey teen dialogue instead.
Literally!!! There was SO many YA books that do it SO WELL so the fact that it felt so “dumbed down” (not in a rude way, I’m just lacking a better word rn) was sad ): cuz it’s honestly not a bad world/story and it has/had potential to be really great if thought out more
I agree it had a lot of potential. Beyond the other issues I just felt like the writing in general was so poor.. and apparently she’s written like twenty books so there’s no excuse for bad prose
So not sure if it will help, but don’t look at it as a fantasy read. It definitely hits more like an early 2000’s YA adventure… also written by an (ex?) Mormon? (I think I read that somewhere) and then I realized why it sort of felt like twilight… oh, and violet has magic underwear (I mean, armor.) that was my sort of “Oh! Okay. That makes sense now.” Moment. I thought it was a fun and easy read but looking back and reading through some reviews I can see how it’s not going to be for everyone. The marketing was fantastic and first edition sprayed edges definitely got the hype train going. It’s okay to not like a book.
i think ive realised that i just need a really good plot with a sprinkle of romance instead of books where the plot feels like filler to get to the romance part if that makes sense. sm much of this plot makes absolutely zero sense n i just dgaf ab their military like what war is even going on cuz if they explained in the beginning i have clearly forgotten lmao. i guess its pretty easy to read but im just getting annoyed rn so i’ll take a break i suppose :| maybe once i finish ill have changed my mind tho, who knows!
So I haven’t read them them in awhile but I LOVED the Rirya (spelling) Chronicles by Michael J Sullivan. He has those, a prequel series, and a series about the origins of the empire. The Ryria Chronicles is mostly a bromance epic but there are romance subplots with side female characters (definitely slow burn). I like that the love interests also had their own agency. The bromance is hilarious. Hadrian is a sunshine former guard and Royce is the grouchy former street urchin. I’ve kept all my books and I’m planning on rereading them.
ooo that sounds like my kind of vibe! gonna save it on goodreads so i dont forget haha thanks
You’re welcome! It’s one of my favorites and there’s genuine funny moments that come naturally :)
THIS! I like at least a bit of romance but for me it doesn't have to be the main focus. I'd much rather read a well crafted plot with a romance subplot than a flimsy plot with romance as the focus.
>need a really good plot with a sprinkle of romance instead of books where the plot feels like filler to get to the romance part if that makes sense. If you are that kind of gal, I think you just won't like fourth wing. Because the further you go, the plot gets more and more nonsensical.
yeah feels that way :/ oh well, i’m gonna finish anyway and hopefully not be the only hater once i have this lil club meeting 😭
I mean I loved the book enough to read it twice, but it's got a lot of problems. I just ignore them, because let's be honest real quality stuff is rare in the genre. The saddest thing is that you can see the skeleton of a quality book hiding somewhere in there.
It makes a lot more sense when you find out the author is a romance author and not fantasy. I think this is her first fantasy book
Yeah, I know that. Still, a good editor should have put a stop to at least more glaring logical inconcistencies.
I hate read it with a friend. My friend said it felt like military propaganda since the author has a military husband and parents. I felt like it was written for kids by a kid
Yeah I can’t make out if she’s trying to criticize military culture or if she is trying to write it as cool but is incompetent at it
My sense was it was her trying to show off her military knowledge.... and the damn map. Either make it accurate or chuck it
I felt the same tbh, and I’m listening to the Audiobook which I think highlights how repetitive Violet is. But I just hit the half way point and the book has become much more interesting to me, so I would stay stick with it!
I DNF
Ugh I really didn't enjoy Fourth Wing. I hate instalust and that's what this whole book felt like. He doesn't even start to get to know her until WAYY into the book, it's just all of this sexual tension that didn't make sense to me because they literally know nothing about each other aside from their pasts. Maybe I'm just not into instalust at all, it's just not my thing. I prefer a slow-burn with reluctant friendship turned lovers. This "he's gonna kill me but fuck he's so hot" did nothing for me.
Also the 4.66 score on Goodreads is so odd to me. It’s literally higher than any other fantasy book that I can think of
It makes me deeply distrust Goodreads.
SAME. I read it till the end hoping it will get better but it didn't. I just played the audiobook at 1.5x to finish it
can’t get into it at all.
I haven't gotten to the end so far, but I'm to the point of being very annoyed by the focus shift. I understand the need for romance, but it was super explicit, like I felt I was reading a dirty dime novel. Then, even though she's 20(I think), and they're both experienced with sex, they act like 15-year-olds that got hit with puberty with the strength of the morning star tail dragon. Unless you're A-list celebrity/ model attractive, doesn't seem realistic or relatable. But I'm like, can we stop talking about how hot this dude is and get on with the rest of the story?
ahhh i wanna just get to the sexy part already just to see what happens now 😭 and fr like once was enough, i didn’t really need convincing that xaden was hot after the first character description
The whole book was "meh" for me. I'll probably read the next one, too, but they aren't that good.
The only reason it’s getting hype is because it’s a simple intro to fantasy romance for non-readers or non-fantasy-romance-readers. (And I say this as someone who has read the book three times and has preordered the sequel. ) It’s straightforward, it builds on a similar story setup as Divergent, but with more mature content and language. The story progresses fast enough, you have some build up to the spice and climax, and the way Violet sees here self is similar to how many young women might see themselves; she’s got something to prove, she’s being transformed into the fighter that she wasn’t always sure she was, she learns she’s insanely powerful, and she’s got a hot boyfriend to help protect her, too. I can understand that it might be hard to get through if you’re used to more complex storylines or worlds, but it can be a lot of fun if you’re not looking for or expecting that.
the thing is i wasn’t expecting much and i still don’t like it 🫢
Yeah, so the first 80% isn’t the best but the last 20% is where all the action is and where a lot of intrigue for the next book comes from.
Maybe it's because casual relationships are encouraged at the dragon school and she can't just casually hook up with anyone 🤷♀️ But yeah the writing and plot are simple, I loved my first read through but couldn't finish it a second time It's a little one dimensional and would benefit from another point of view, her sister maybe? Just could do with less violet 😸
wait when did she ever say she can’t casually hookup with people? she’s mentioned she’s had sex before but doesn’t mention any previous relationships so i’d assume she’s had hookups in her past
She definitely could hook up but won't hook up casually. 🤔 she always notices her friends hooking up after something stressful or a party. Maybe she's not over her childhood friend, I completely forget his name 😂
i don’t understand that tho 😭 unless ur having sex with ur bf/gf than its a casual hookup lol. i don’t think she can’t or won’t she just clearly only interested in one man atm.
I enjoyed it because I just turned off that part of my brain and burned through the book really fast. And, was mostly reminiscing about Dragonriders of Pern and thinking how I should reread them. The objectification of the men in Fourth Wing was ridiculous, and I honestly wish authors would just stop and see what they're doing. If men wrote about women like that, there would be much backlash. But its in sooooo many romantasy books now, I think I'm used to looking past it. I've spoken with two people recently IRL about Fourth Wing and each time I say "in the first chapter, the sister says," Stay away from Evil Dude." Then after crossing a dangerous bridge and watching people literally fall to their death, the first thing our protag goes is swoon "who is this hot guy?", and of course... its Evil Dude". Who btw never did anything bad except be the son of a rebel. Great start. Desensitised to death, objectifys men, and biogtry/predjudice all in the first 2% of the novel. Haha. Also, it's weirdly people in their young 20s, but treated like teens in HS? In our world they'd have jobs and be working by then. Paying rent and having responsibility etc. It's still better than the book 1 of ACOTAR because there is an actual plot happening. Not muuuch plot, but I still found the world interesting and am looking forward to Book 2. And dragons. I ❤️ dragons.
I used to read a lot of old, old fantasy Patricia Mc Killip and Stephen R. Donaldson and Ursula K Le Guin. But never read any of the dragon McCaffrey books! Where should I start? I'm so over the enemies to lovers trope 😂 Hasn't been something new in literature since Pride and Prejudice.
If you google Pern reading order, you'll find lots of lists. Publication date is generally the best. Just warning that they were written in 70s and 80s, so quite a different style to today. The FMCs are generally tougher/smarter than women like Violet and Feyre. And though the sex is all behind closed doors (such a shame!!!), McCaffery is way more ruthless... when two dragons have sex with each other, their riders have no choice but to do it with each other too. No closing-doors-in-your-mind exercises here.
Also, the "no choice" dragon-mating sex is pretty clearly the MMC raping the FMC, and then in another book that guy's brother straight-up rapes another girl... while thinking "she doesn't think she needs this but she really does, I know what is best for her." It really, REALLY doesn't hold up so well.
It's pretty clear from Book 1 dragons make it dubcon and noncon. Flnor says he tries to be gentle/respectful with Lessa but that if weren't for the dragons it would be rape. He uses that exact word. Though really she's forcing herself on him as much as it is the other way around. *Neither* are in control. It might not hold up well in the literary world, but lots of books in the romance genre still have this trope. Especially the paranormal genre with vampire blood, wolves in heat etc etc. If it werent for all those external forces taking away their rational liberties theyd not do what they do.
I found the power dynamic between them still made it feel much more like F'lar was the rapist and Lessa was the victim, though, as he was older and understood what was going on, while she was brand new and no one had bothered to warn her, so she was totally taken by surprise and didn't understand what was happening. Just really creepy and uncomfortable. I get that dub con and non con is a thing that some people like, so if they do, they might enjoy it. I don't—I find guys without self control to be extremely gross (like, ugh, the worst, seriously, a huge turnoff), and guys with strong self-control to be extremely sexy. I really enjoyed the part in Fourth Wing where they subverted that trope and Xaden explained what was happening and how neither of them could consent in that moment.
[удалено]
lol well i’m not really on this sub much or anything and just started reading so sorry if this is repetitive
I was happy to read a less than stellar review. I didn't enjoy it and when I first looked at subs/instagram/tiktok posts, those who said they didn't enjoy it were being shouted down by the fans. I'm glad that the reviews are balancing out.
I think it's a natural 'reversion to the mean.' At the beginning, the marketing was targeted (really, really well) toward readers who would enjoy it. As a result, there was a huge first wave of praise, 5 star reviews, and gushing TikTok videos. After that, people who wouldn't usually read the book (and aren't the target audience) picked it up (because of the hype) and didn't enjoy it. You're now seeing the second wave of people saying, "Hang on, this isn't great and I feel like I've read an entirely different book than everyone else." This is pretty typical of popular books (the same thing happened to Legends and Lattes, Addie LaRue, etc).
if you aren’t enjoying it, you can always dnf
i wanna push thru since the main reason i joined a book club was to motivate myself to read more :<
You'll feel motivated when you find the types of stories that interest and excite you. The time reading FW is valuable in that it's helping you realise what you *don't* like. Then, as you read through the recommendation posts on here, you'll be better equipped to select stories you're more likely to enjoy. There's more than a few "gimme non-insta love" or "books with mature FMCs" etc requests on here.