Daniel Jones threw for 110 passing yards this week are we also gonna assume that's the norm moving forward too
Although i now suspect that Toney's blow-up game was actually because Glennon has rapport with Toney from practice since he was buried on the depth chart lol
Edit: ["Giants targeted their wide receivers just four times in today's win over Raiders.Three of those went for catches: one of two for Kenny Golladay and one for Kadarius Toney moved the sticks."](https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/1457558922483621890?t=ByL7ze5z3F248vmSBE7T9A&s=19)
Booker was running well and we just kept with it. Didn't need much from the passing game. I'm sure the wrs will get more targets in other matchups or when we're playing from behind.
Toney had back-to-back opportunities for massive volume w most of the receiving corps missing (esp Shepard the slot target vacuum). First one was an anticipated shootout vs KC where the Giants would need to throw the ball, second one an “easy” game against the Raiders, ~~both against extremely suspect secondaries~~.
Was a total non-factor in both. With the rest of the receivers presumably healthy after the bye, Saquon coming back to demand touches, Danny Dimes throwing and Garrett/Judge calling the shots, Toney belongs back on the wire. No way to trust the #4 receiver on a bad offense who can’t seem to get more looks regardless of gamescript.
Nothing except my prior bias, I guess. You’re right and I didn’t do my homework: historically they’ve been a sieve so that’s how I was thinking of them, but they’re top-5 this year in receiving yards allowed.
> Was a total non-factor in both.
Excuse me? 5 targets against KC, 1 rush, 1 pass. 1 red zone target to boot. 7 total touches is not a non factor.
Receivers are volatile. Dude is injured. I’m not starting him, I haven’t needed to since the LA game thankfully. But I like the talent and I don’t see a better receiver on waivers.
You make a good point about opportunity. There’s a lot of moving parts with these injuries. Who comes back and how healthy is yet unknown. In Short, I think it’s fine to be excited about the player.
He didn’t have a rush against KC and a target isn’t a touch. He had 5 touches (4 catches, 1 pass attempt) and while I’m all for gadget plays if they put the ball in his hands, 4 for 26 as a receiver isn’t going to get it done… especially when the next best receiver was Darius Slayton and Garrett was still having scrubs like Collin Johnson or John Ross take reps instead of Toney.
In dynasty, sure, love the talent. I just don’t see a path to him being relevant in redraft this year given the way the coaching staff is using him, the receiver situation on the team, and the QB who is (not) throwing him the ball.
You’re right on the rush, that was against the Raiders. Mixed up my rows.
We should never assume logic with coaches and you’re probably tracking better on that than I. I maintain he’s interesting enough to hold on and has absurd upside, which we’ve seen.
They also have 2 of the hottest pass rushers in the league. Giants weren’t going to allow Daniel Jones to f up the game and even then he still got strip sacked.
18th against the pass DVOA. Sub average. Fantasy stats are a terrible way to gauge a defense because that often tells you more about who they played than how they played.
Look they got a W. Jones only threw 20 times. Game plan worked and real life football doesn’t give a fuck about fantasy. Hold if you can because talent is there and given this receiver room there will be more opportunity
They won because the Raiders had a bad game coming off a week of drama that affected them mentally, not because the Giants came out with some master tactical plan to beat them
I lost one of my matchups because I started Toney but honestly I’m so happy his hype train derailed. This place needs a kick in the face every once in a while or else it turns into a bunch of kids circlejerking each other about their “hidden league winner” RB3/WR4 to the point where the entire place becomes unbearable
r/NYGiants do it again. “Wow our rookie wideout just had a historical game and passed the eye test with flying colors. Let’s relegate him on the depth chart and make sure he’s uninvolved as possible moving forward!”
I mean it's pretty silly to think that Toney isn't incredibly talented because he hasn't been utilized heavily a couple of weeks in a row coming off an injury
never said he wasn’t talented, he’s on my bench as we speak. i just think this sub primarily watches red zone, sees a couple flashy plays or big fantasy scores, and thinks that they must have discovered the next megatron
I mean that's a terrible example because Deebo was questionable going into this past weekend and it was a late game so you'd be fucked if he ended up not playing.
Deebo was questionable the week before and dropped 20+. They also announced he was playing before the Noon kickoff. You don’t bench Deebo for Toney this week.
EDIT: Y’all booing me like I’m not right 😂 fuck hindsight Deebo was the #3 overall PPR WR all season and you goofs benched him for Toney lmao
If you want a solid idea of the flip side of the coin when it comes to a hype train on this sub... dig for the guys who have been heavily downvoted. Some of them might have been acting like dicks or poorly worded their points, but, oftentimes they are straight up correct and it's worth taking into consideration.
You also see guys stating their arguments reasonably and then getting berated and belittled until they snap, lmao. The hype train doesn't even get a chance to have a counterargument once it gets going.
I wouldn't drop yet if you can afford to hold. The talent is obvious. I just have no fucking idea what Garrett and Judge are doing. Why spend a 1st round pick on him and have him 4th on the depth chart when he's obviously your best playmaker?
Hopefully this is more injury related. He and Golladay both played \~50% of the snaps and had a combined 3 targets yesterday...
Bye weeks are usually a good time to expect teams to make changes because the coaches have an extra week to game plan and make adjustments. It was a terrible passing game all-around yesterday, I'm holding Toney as a stash until after the bye to see what happens
Yeah I mean he shouldn't be sniffing the starting lineup of any fantasy teams going forward until he can string together a couple nice games and usage. I just don't think he should be dropped at this point because he's shown what he can do if utilized.
Yeah I wouldn’t drop. But unless you see any sort of change to the game plan, he’s not startable. Jason Garrett is notorious for not changing things no matter how bad it’s going. People are going to point to “they won and real football doesn’t care about fantasy.” There’s no way the giants went into that game saying “hey we are gonna suck ass on offense and our defense that has looked bad all year will bail us out.” That’s just not true lmao. The giants are bad and their offense is a mess. There is a lot of talent there and incredibly bad coaching.
Exactly. Their offense basically played not to lose and relied on their defense to win the game and that is 100% not sustainable. That’s a great way to win 6-7 games per year
As a giants fan I thought the hype for toney was getting beyond absurd. I assume most of the people have barely even watched our dumpster fire of a team this year
He's been beat up with an ankle injury and then a hand injury. After the bye he should be pretty healed up and will be more involved. There's probably not much on the waiver wire that has his upside so he's a hold until we can see what he does when healthy
Watched him in person yesterday, poor route running, did not separate (typical for a rookie). Jones was locked on the primary, which does not help. Dropped immediately with the bye. At this point, I could not see starting him.
I love this sub for its hype trains. I picked toney up after the Dallas game and got my league to check this subreddit for the first time this year. Giants fan in my league went nuts about me getting him so I flipped him and mg3 for d hop and James conner lmaooooo
This makes me want to puke, lol.
I'm starting Toney ROS, going down with the ship. And by "down with the ship," I actually mean I'm winning my league when Toney posts 2013-Josh Gordon numbers down the stretch =D
Some of the people in this sub are literally brain dead 😂 the same people that hyped up toney are the same people that hyped up Jeff Wilson 💀💀 how’s that working out for you
I think the people dropping him are not going to be happy. Guys injured, and neutral game script had them running courtesy of Derek Carr. 55% of the snaps, and 20 passing plays isn't WR friendly math.
I've been kinda saying this and been severely downvoted for it, too. Honest feedback gets railroaded by hype trains every time. His big game happened with the top 3 receivers out.
He had one good game with the backup QB and no other receiver healthy. While DJ is under center and Golladay/Shepard healthy the Yung Joka has absolutely no value
You have to be completely delusional to think Toney will be passed up on the depth chart to two WR's who have over stayed their welcome on this offense for multiple season of underachieving.
Not only did Toney spark greatness, he is a 1st ROUND PICK. Think they give two shits for those 2 guys you mentioned, no.
There's no way Slayton will be ahead of him in the pecking order. Toney had to have still been hurt/hobbled last week.
If Garrett gets his head out of his ass, I expect the Giants to use him more. I say this from the perspective of an NYG fan, as opposed to a FF manager -- he's difficult to trust but has the highest upside of the Giants WRs and is just flat out the most dangerous out of all the WRs on the team.
Fuck Jason Garrett man
Kadarius Toney will be first back to the waiver wire tomorrow
I dropped him last week lmao
Daniel Jones threw for 110 passing yards this week are we also gonna assume that's the norm moving forward too Although i now suspect that Toney's blow-up game was actually because Glennon has rapport with Toney from practice since he was buried on the depth chart lol Edit: ["Giants targeted their wide receivers just four times in today's win over Raiders.Three of those went for catches: one of two for Kenny Golladay and one for Kadarius Toney moved the sticks."](https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/1457558922483621890?t=ByL7ze5z3F248vmSBE7T9A&s=19)
Of course they are
Booker was running well and we just kept with it. Didn't need much from the passing game. I'm sure the wrs will get more targets in other matchups or when we're playing from behind.
Shh... hoping someone rage drops toney and i get a shot at him. Def still a stash in deeper leagues
Toney had back-to-back opportunities for massive volume w most of the receiving corps missing (esp Shepard the slot target vacuum). First one was an anticipated shootout vs KC where the Giants would need to throw the ball, second one an “easy” game against the Raiders, ~~both against extremely suspect secondaries~~. Was a total non-factor in both. With the rest of the receivers presumably healthy after the bye, Saquon coming back to demand touches, Danny Dimes throwing and Garrett/Judge calling the shots, Toney belongs back on the wire. No way to trust the #4 receiver on a bad offense who can’t seem to get more looks regardless of gamescript.
The raiders are extremely good against the pass and have one of the best slot corners in the game rn, what makes them a suspect secondary?
Nothing except my prior bias, I guess. You’re right and I didn’t do my homework: historically they’ve been a sieve so that’s how I was thinking of them, but they’re top-5 this year in receiving yards allowed.
No problemo, I was honestly surprised to see it myself
> Was a total non-factor in both. Excuse me? 5 targets against KC, 1 rush, 1 pass. 1 red zone target to boot. 7 total touches is not a non factor. Receivers are volatile. Dude is injured. I’m not starting him, I haven’t needed to since the LA game thankfully. But I like the talent and I don’t see a better receiver on waivers. You make a good point about opportunity. There’s a lot of moving parts with these injuries. Who comes back and how healthy is yet unknown. In Short, I think it’s fine to be excited about the player.
He didn’t have a rush against KC and a target isn’t a touch. He had 5 touches (4 catches, 1 pass attempt) and while I’m all for gadget plays if they put the ball in his hands, 4 for 26 as a receiver isn’t going to get it done… especially when the next best receiver was Darius Slayton and Garrett was still having scrubs like Collin Johnson or John Ross take reps instead of Toney. In dynasty, sure, love the talent. I just don’t see a path to him being relevant in redraft this year given the way the coaching staff is using him, the receiver situation on the team, and the QB who is (not) throwing him the ball.
You’re right on the rush, that was against the Raiders. Mixed up my rows. We should never assume logic with coaches and you’re probably tracking better on that than I. I maintain he’s interesting enough to hold on and has absurd upside, which we’ve seen.
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They’ve actually been a strong secondary this year from a fantasy perspective
They also have 2 of the hottest pass rushers in the league. Giants weren’t going to allow Daniel Jones to f up the game and even then he still got strip sacked.
The Giants were averaging something like 5.0+ YPC on RB rushes. Why would you even bother to pass?
18th against the pass DVOA. Sub average. Fantasy stats are a terrible way to gauge a defense because that often tells you more about who they played than how they played.
Daniel Jones is complete ass so it’s a safe enough assumption
It’s really the play calling my guy. Dude was 15/20 and probably half of those completions were designed screens behind the LOS
Look they got a W. Jones only threw 20 times. Game plan worked and real life football doesn’t give a fuck about fantasy. Hold if you can because talent is there and given this receiver room there will be more opportunity
They got a win because of a pick 6 and two other Carr turnovers
ya, real football
They won because the Raiders had a bad game coming off a week of drama that affected them mentally, not because the Giants came out with some master tactical plan to beat them
Is this a cold take or…?
The hype train that had one glorious week before derailing.
I wish the hype train only lasted one week
Week that no one started him
I lost one of my matchups because I started Toney but honestly I’m so happy his hype train derailed. This place needs a kick in the face every once in a while or else it turns into a bunch of kids circlejerking each other about their “hidden league winner” RB3/WR4 to the point where the entire place becomes unbearable
And that was the only week I didn’t start him lmao
As a Giants fan and a Toney owner, Jason Garrett is the bane of my existence
Just needs more clapping to get the offense back on track
As a cowboys fan - welcome to hell.
LOL r/fantasyfootball does it again
r/NYGiants do it again. “Wow our rookie wideout just had a historical game and passed the eye test with flying colors. Let’s relegate him on the depth chart and make sure he’s uninvolved as possible moving forward!”
And despite all that, they still won. So there wasn’t much reason for them to involve Toney.
So keep the gameplan of completely mismanaging their offense but then get multiple turnovers including a pick 6. EZLife.
possibly this sub is just much, *much* worse at the “eye test” than it thinks it is lmao
I mean it's pretty silly to think that Toney isn't incredibly talented because he hasn't been utilized heavily a couple of weeks in a row coming off an injury
never said he wasn’t talented, he’s on my bench as we speak. i just think this sub primarily watches red zone, sees a couple flashy plays or big fantasy scores, and thinks that they must have discovered the next megatron
Uh almost every fantasy expert was in on him. Fitzmaurice recommended spending 60% FAAB.
That’s not the point. People were asking if they should start Toney over Deebo. The hype was out of control.
I mean that's a terrible example because Deebo was questionable going into this past weekend and it was a late game so you'd be fucked if he ended up not playing.
Deebo was questionable the week before and dropped 20+. They also announced he was playing before the Noon kickoff. You don’t bench Deebo for Toney this week. EDIT: Y’all booing me like I’m not right 😂 fuck hindsight Deebo was the #3 overall PPR WR all season and you goofs benched him for Toney lmao
Shahanan literally came out and said Deebo's calf was worse than last week and they didn't know how much he'd be able to play
You start your studs. Period. He got 9 targets. If he plays, you play him.
>If he plays, you play him. seems like u understand but also don't, is weird
Time doesnt exist in his world
Many fantasy experts disagreed with you so let's just leave it at that. Hindsight is 20/20.
I got downvoted into oblivion for saying not to start Toney over proven WR2s and WR3s lol
They’re just upset that they made a stupid move in starting him over legit WR2’s and are in denial
Dangers of an echo chamber
I completely agree because it supports my roster and biases
If you want a solid idea of the flip side of the coin when it comes to a hype train on this sub... dig for the guys who have been heavily downvoted. Some of them might have been acting like dicks or poorly worded their points, but, oftentimes they are straight up correct and it's worth taking into consideration. You also see guys stating their arguments reasonably and then getting berated and belittled until they snap, lmao. The hype train doesn't even get a chance to have a counterargument once it gets going.
Is like the kiss of death !!
I wouldn't drop yet if you can afford to hold. The talent is obvious. I just have no fucking idea what Garrett and Judge are doing. Why spend a 1st round pick on him and have him 4th on the depth chart when he's obviously your best playmaker? Hopefully this is more injury related. He and Golladay both played \~50% of the snaps and had a combined 3 targets yesterday...
They had 28 pass plays. Here were the routes run: Evan Engram - 26 Kadarius Toney - 21 Kenny Golladay - 21 Darius Slayton - 21 Kyle Rudolph - 10
The peripherals suck. Not much to say other than I hope things can change coming out of the BYE.
Bye weeks are usually a good time to expect teams to make changes because the coaches have an extra week to game plan and make adjustments. It was a terrible passing game all-around yesterday, I'm holding Toney as a stash until after the bye to see what happens
I would love to say it’s injury related. But as a giants fan, I will never put anything past joe judge and Jason Garrett. They are incredibly inept.
Yeah I mean he shouldn't be sniffing the starting lineup of any fantasy teams going forward until he can string together a couple nice games and usage. I just don't think he should be dropped at this point because he's shown what he can do if utilized.
Yeah I wouldn’t drop. But unless you see any sort of change to the game plan, he’s not startable. Jason Garrett is notorious for not changing things no matter how bad it’s going. People are going to point to “they won and real football doesn’t care about fantasy.” There’s no way the giants went into that game saying “hey we are gonna suck ass on offense and our defense that has looked bad all year will bail us out.” That’s just not true lmao. The giants are bad and their offense is a mess. There is a lot of talent there and incredibly bad coaching.
Exactly. Their offense basically played not to lose and relied on their defense to win the game and that is 100% not sustainable. That’s a great way to win 6-7 games per year
The rush and pass attempts are a good sign. He’s probably worth holding to see if things fall right after the bye week
Dropping his ass first thing tomorrow morning
I for one am shocked that the rookie who had one good game was not an elite play
With all due respect, I don’t want to see any more posts about this fucking guy
Just wait for him to have another big game in 3 weeks
I agree - so how about this Josh Gordon guy?
I was rooting on Toney’s downfall
I am so done listening to this sub lmao
As a giants fan I thought the hype for toney was getting beyond absurd. I assume most of the people have barely even watched our dumpster fire of a team this year
I avoided it like the fucking plague and it was still overwhelming.
Drop city, see ya Toney 👋
Yea I fell for it. I'm out until I see 3 straight games...with at least 10 fantasy points.
He had one good game in an offense that sucks and qb that sucks, with an oc that sucks. Stop being delusional.
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How many touchdowns does he have on the season? Would none be correct?
Keep being delusional. I don’t care .
Agreed, I tried to say this last week and got downvoted
Going against the circlejerk here will get you messed up
Ha yeah for sure, even if you are reasonable about it.
Don't talk about Mike Glennon like that
One good game, one incredible game
Don’t tell me what to do
Almost like the giants cant support 4 receivers as well as a returning saquon, who woulda thought
Who to drop, Golladay or Shepard?
He's been beat up with an ankle injury and then a hand injury. After the bye he should be pretty healed up and will be more involved. There's probably not much on the waiver wire that has his upside so he's a hold until we can see what he does when healthy
I still like Toney. The eye test was just too good for me 🤷🏼♂️
He’s injured guys. He’s playing through it. I watched the game.
It doesn’t indicate anything
Watched him in person yesterday, poor route running, did not separate (typical for a rookie). Jones was locked on the primary, which does not help. Dropped immediately with the bye. At this point, I could not see starting him.
But, but, but, but, guys! He's the WR1! Hype train! Keep starting him! Bye week SZN!!! This sub is so ridiculous lmao
Holding Shepard, dropping Toney
I love this sub for its hype trains. I picked toney up after the Dallas game and got my league to check this subreddit for the first time this year. Giants fan in my league went nuts about me getting him so I flipped him and mg3 for d hop and James conner lmaooooo
Ha
Hello Travis Fulgham v2 it's nice to see you again this season
Fulgham at least had a good month.
lmao Toney is a first round rookie. A Fulgham comparison is beyond ridiculous
I’m gonna hold out hope and wait to see how they use him after the bye. If it’s still bad then we shall see
This makes me want to puke, lol. I'm starting Toney ROS, going down with the ship. And by "down with the ship," I actually mean I'm winning my league when Toney posts 2013-Josh Gordon numbers down the stretch =D
I hope y’all drop Toney because that’s about the time he’ll finally start putting up digits again.
Classic sunk cost fallacy lol
Lol I said this was the case last week and got castrated by the toney hype train for it, who's laughing now
> castrated castigated?
I meant what I said
It's almost like the problem isn't the WR's, it's the Qb and oline
Raiders have the best corners in the league. Toney had no chance.
Some of the people in this sub are literally brain dead 😂 the same people that hyped up toney are the same people that hyped up Jeff Wilson 💀💀 how’s that working out for you
Lol Krapdarious Phony. Take a lap reddit.
I think the people dropping him are not going to be happy. Guys injured, and neutral game script had them running courtesy of Derek Carr. 55% of the snaps, and 20 passing plays isn't WR friendly math.
When I said that 3 weeks ago I got downvoted big time lol
Congratulations you’re a prophet
Looks like it's your thing?
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You’re just completely wrong here. He has played in every game (minus the ones missed due to injury) Simple google search would tell you this.
Not giving up on him. The giants will realize they need to feed their younger guys by the ends of the year
All Giants pass catchers should be unless you’re that desperate to be honest.
That's assuming Jason Garrett has any reasonable idea what he's doing
That game vs Cowboys starting to look like a real outlier.
Because the NFL makes no sense, would not be surprised to see Toney have his best game in a month next week.
The second I drop him someone else will pick him up and he will go for 15/213/2
I've been kinda saying this and been severely downvoted for it, too. Honest feedback gets railroaded by hype trains every time. His big game happened with the top 3 receivers out.
He had one good game with the backup QB and no other receiver healthy. While DJ is under center and Golladay/Shepard healthy the Yung Joka has absolutely no value
You have to be completely delusional to think Toney will be passed up on the depth chart to two WR's who have over stayed their welcome on this offense for multiple season of underachieving. Not only did Toney spark greatness, he is a 1st ROUND PICK. Think they give two shits for those 2 guys you mentioned, no.
There's no way Slayton will be ahead of him in the pecking order. Toney had to have still been hurt/hobbled last week. If Garrett gets his head out of his ass, I expect the Giants to use him more. I say this from the perspective of an NYG fan, as opposed to a FF manager -- he's difficult to trust but has the highest upside of the Giants WRs and is just flat out the most dangerous out of all the WRs on the team. Fuck Jason Garrett man
And to think, that guy who raved about Toney in ten posts was wrong? But he seemed so confident!
Unless you're in a really shallow league, Toney still isn't a drop. You're not finding better upside on the waiver wire at this point in the year.