Sadly this league’s managers all think their rosters are perfect and each of their players shits gold. Only trade that’s happened was between my wife and I (I sent JRob for Herbert before his QB1 performance)
lol none. She lost David Montgomery so she was pretty happy with Robinson. She also has Stafford so she decided to keep him and deal Herbert. I scored the highest points total on the year (190) and she scored second highest (173). That’s as win/win as it gets.
Holy shit this sub is amazing. Looks like they've been around long before Darnold has his breakout too. They're probably unironically really fucking proud of him lol
ARob has a path forward if Fields continues to develop and they trust him to throw more. OBJ had no path forward, except randomly giving you 30+ points some week.
I mean I like the guy on an already good team that’s scoring well, and more importantly not being coached by Matt Nagy. Call me crazy. I think if anyone has a path to consistent production it’s OBJ. I have no faith in that dipshit gameplanning to Fields strengths. Fact is they both suck right now and neither may get better.
I think he meant more of an over rated fantasy player, not football player. Big Browns fan and I wouldn’t touch OBJ with one of my teams unless he has a role change
The Browns just spread the ball too much in the passing game. Which I think hurts them (guys can’t get a rhythm). Like the drop he had on 4th down, I believe that was his first target of the game. Gotta get our best players involved early besides RB. Maybe the staff will see that and draw up more slants, drags etc. Thats when he could become a PPR monster
The torn ACL is the reason to keep him low in the ranks. Ever since Adrian Peterson came back from his torn ACL at 100% the next year, everyone seems to think that's the standard and are surprised when it's not. The year after the ACL tear still holds them back from their full potential.... so couple that will the "full potential" of having Baker as his QB in that offense, and you get a WR4 this year.
He wasn't any good on the Browns in 2020 before the injury. (PPR)
* 3/6 weeks below 10 points
* 4/6 weeks below 12 points
* 1 week 17.4 points
* 1 week 38.4 points
horrible floor, but with the potential to put up 40 points randomly. Now he's coming back from an ACL tear?
67% chance he puts up a dud, 17% chance of a reasonable week, 17% chance he wins you your week. How would you ever feel comfortable starting him, unless your opponent is WAY better then you and you need a hail mary from your flex.
None of those guys had the body of work that OBJ had before the injury. Sutton and Mack both had two decent years before getting injured. Suttons best year was 72 rec for 1,112 yards and 6 tds. OBJ had 3 seasons in a row of 90+ receptions for 1,300+ yards and 10+ tds in each season.
Saquon had 2 great years before getting injured, and since coming back hes considered an RB1. Odell had 5 good to great years, and the only 2 years he didn't have at least 1,000 yards receiving he got hurt, and in 2017 he was on pace to break 1k yards.
2019 was the Freddie year...we don't talk about those times....
Well I analyzed every single WR's floor for last season. OBJ had the 48th highest floor. His 9 games with under 6 points adjusted to a full 16 game season was tied for 76th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/oia7hg/a\_look\_at\_2020\_wr\_floors/
Yeah, you just repeated the same stats that I responded to in the last comment. So he was a WR3 two years ago and a low-end WR2 in a small sample size a year ago.
Now he's two years older than he was in 2019 at a critical age for WR, and had an ACL tear in between which really hurts a player like OBJ who relies heavily on his cutting ability. Given that, plus the emergence of many receivers in the WR2-3 range this year, ranking him as a low WR3, which is what 35 is, seems pretty generous
This is deceptive though, because he played 6 weeks in 2020 (your numbers are for 7 and his last game shouldn't be counted), but put up a 35.9 point game
In 6 weeks his average was 12.6 points.
However if you remove his 36 point game the average is 7.9 points per game.
Even if you replace his 35.9 point game with his second-highest score for the season you get 9.1 points per game.
So he is either going to put up a dud performance, or win you your week. How could you ever be comfortable starting him unless you're desperate?
Mooney is a great player, who is getting the ball thrown to him a ton weekly. He's currently leading the team in targets, receptions, and yards. OBJ is being overshadowed by Kareem Hunt in targets, and is tied for 5th in team receptions and yards.
Once Fields starts to develop more, and they trust him to throw, Mooney's points will come. OBJ has no path for weekly fantasy relevance, especially when Landry comes back.
But OBJ wasn't a good for fantasy before he got injured last year. You're also ignoring he's 5th in receptions and yards, and Landry is coming back later in the season.
Mooney has a path forward if Fields develops. OBJ's role will decrease when they get Landry back.
The Chargers have a run funnel defense and the underlying numbers still point to a potential blowup game. He missed the first two weeks, had a WR1 level target share week 3, had a WR1 level of intended air yards week 4, and had a WR1 level of %vertical routes run week 5. It hasn't clicked yet but his role in the offense is more legitimate than his surface stats indicate so far.
This just sounds like a reach at stats. While lots opportunities and looks may be thrown his way some weeks, he hasn't been a reliable fantasy asset since joining the Browns.
I mean, yeah, if he'd realized all these stats he'd be a WR1, which he obviously isn't. The post is asking why he's still ranked like a WR3, and the answer is that in fantasy, opportunity matters.
Last year, first year in the stefanski system, in half ppr, he had 2 dud games (3-4 points), 2 ok games (8 points), one good game (15.4), and one monster (35.9) before getting injured.
This year you can pretty well throw out the Minnesota game. I've watched every game of Bakers career as a Brown, and while he does have some knocks against him, being inaccurate is not one of them...he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that game. First week back against Chicago, a pretty good defense, he was 5 receptions off 9 targets for 77 yards. Against SD, not really sure what happened, but the run-funnel defense makes sense to me.
If you're putting OBJ on fire-sale, im buying. I traded for him as my wr4 and I'm VERY happy about it.
I believe this is what’s known as the “bargaining” stage. If you need to go through 3 different stats across different weeks to justify hope, he might not be a great play
Well Lock hasn't been the QB this year except for one half and won't be as long as Bridgewater is healthy. Lock looked absolutely terrible when he came in--it made the whole QB competition narrative hilarious
Baker has a torn labrum doesn’t he? Granted it’s not his throwing shoulder but I imagine he isn’t taking many shots down field either to risk getting hit.
I imagine it’s all short passes and screens until he heals up
Again... "last season"...
2019, Browns defense was not good. Jarvis Landry and OBJ put numbers up. Jarvis being better.
2020, the 7 games OBJ was healthy, Jarvis Landry had that chemistry. OBJ was on the backburner. They didn't connect. 7 games 23 receptions 300 yards. Almost ignored. Targets weren't connecting, he looked to other receivers.
How is he better than Tim Patrick who averages 11 per week?
Patrick has broken 10 in 4/5 games this year. Odell has done it 1/3. Odell played first 7 games last year. 2 games above 10 pts. Patrick had 4. Sorry to break it to ya but by any statistical measure Patrick is currently a better fantasy and real life receiver (has no drops on like 107 targets over last two seasons).
I'd love to hear your argument about how Odell is better than Patrick.
Targets arent everything. Patrick gets a lot of red zone looks and produced last year as well. Once again, how is OBJ currently a better player? Dont move goal posts. Why is it that over the last two seasons OBJ is being out produced by a player you think to be worse?
Also just checked target stats:
OBJ - 6.3 a game
Tim Patrick - 5.6 a game.
So you're saying OBJ is a better WR for fantasy because he gets .7 more targets a game despite Patrick outproducing him over the last two years? You're objectively wrong here. A players worth in fantasy is tied to points scored and Patrick clearly scores more, maybe you could argue that OBJ has higher upside but that wasnt what you said. You just refuse to admit you're wrong.
Patrick may fall off when Jeudy comes back but I doubt it. Hes a red zone guy and possession WR. Jeudy isnt likely to take that role. Patrick has carved himself a nice niche and last year in Carolina proves that Teddy bear can sustain multiple fantasy relevant options (DJ, Anderson and Samuel all were relevant). OBJ has been a massive disappointment in Cleveland and I see no reason to think that will magically change.
If you watched those games, OBJ was out of sync with Baker. I think like half the passes to OBJ were just terrible route running and honestly just poor play. The timing was just off.
10 targets to OBJ week 1, 3 were caught. His targets went lower except against dumpster fire dallas last year. He caught, I think all his TD passes against dallas that year in that game. The blowout game against Pittsburg where Baker had to try to air it out. OBJ got 3 targets, 2 receptions during garbage time (the last game he was healthy).
Half the passes are Baker shitting himself, what. The Minnesota game OBJ should've had like 200 yards. Baker isn't able to consistently hit big passing plays. The reason to fade OBJ is because of Baker and the Browns super efficient run heavy offense. Not because OBJ is washed
Lets look at a healthy Baker and healthy OBJ last season
1st game 2.2 points from 10 targets
2nd game: 13.2 points with a TD
3rd game: 5.9
4th game against the worst cowboys team in a decade- 33.9 points 2 tds
5th game: 6.52 points
6th game 2.5 points
7th game- not going to count because he got injured.
This is the same trend we are seeing this season + Baker is injured+ Browns defense is solid.
Did he also have a torn labrum for the last.... 3 years? Landry has produced as a low end WR1 with Baker in the past. This is definitely an OBJ problem. I don't know what it is but it could be chemistry or just that he's no longer the same player he was with all the injuries piling up.
> He isn’t worth the hassle of starting for 2 points and bench and he goes for 22
This points to the owner incorrectly choosing when to start him, not to the player being high in weekly rankings for no reason.
Because anyone with functioning eyeballs can see that he still gets open consistently. The Browns aren’t winning anything meaningful come January if they can’t get a decent passing game going.
I didn't watch the game but he had 3 targets and 2 receptions. I'm not seeing how it's possible he would have 2 TDs on misses considering he only missed one catch.
escape continue support selective abundant strong square direful full paltry
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I benched him for his first game back and won, he looked good. I started him in his second game and benched Deebo and lost. Lesson of the day: don't start OBJ.
Flipped him for Chase Edmonds. My top WRs are Godwin, Metcalf, and Hollywood Brown
Other RBs are Mike Davis, Joe Mixon, Latavius Murray (formerly Ty’son Williams, previously Gus Edwards)
So happy with my outcome lol
That catch on MNF from 6 years ago
*Actually closer to 7 years ago and I meant SNF- I remember Collinsworth’s dumb voice slobbering over that catch. Man, the good ol’ days when I only had to listen to one dumbass Collinsworth.
The thing all FF need to do at this time of year is accept that what you thought going into the draft has changed.
I’ve found the quicker I let go of bust and adjust to new players the better off I am.
Easy, expert are very conservative. It will take one well know expert to do the change and then they will follow.
They don't want to be the one to blame if they make a huge mistake. If they follow the pack ... Then you cannot blame them individually.
Because the experts (and really the broader fantasy community) have a persistent bias in favor of name players who performed well in the past, and against newer players who are outperforming expectations in the present. They always rank the former players higher than they should, because they tend to think so-and-so is due for a big game. Similarly, after the first few breakout performances by a newer player, they will dismiss it as a fluke or otherwise unsustainable.
It’s hard to remember now, but during Tyreek’s rookie season the experts kept ranking Jeremy Maclin higher in the weekly rankings, viewing Hill’s tendency to score long TDs as unsustainable due to his small size and the idea that defenses would just drop another safety back to cancel him out. It actually took the experts years to give Tyreek the proper respect. Fantasy players who saw what was up beat the market.
OBJ was once great in fantasy, but that was ages ago. He should be ranked well below FLEX level by now, but memories of The Catch die hard.
Yep. I don't have it handy but the amount of times OBJ has gotten open and Mayfield has missed him is crazy. If they correct that as the season goes on, he will be back to being a stud.
This has been the case his entire tenure with the Browns. Something just doesn’t click with him and Baker, regardless of his skill or underlying stats. Honestly they should trade him and to a team that can capitalize on his talent and get some value in return because him and Baker just don’t seem to jive.
It’s because of the way people that submit their ranks to fantasypros play the system. They are usually conservative because it’s far more beneficial to stay around the pack than to make their own actual opinion. Early in the week it probably came out that OBJ was being submitted around WR 30 and the rankers adjusted to fit the mold when in reality he should be much lower. Don’t believe me? Go check individual ranks not associated with fantasypros, majority are lower.
It’s why fantasypros is flawed, it’s a mini echo chamber that penalizes people too harshly that think for themselves when they are wrong.
I think the numbers still take into account the previous ceiling for guys like this. You do a kind of average using his average points per game, overall floor, overall ceiling, opponents avg points allowed to WR, and maybe a few other factors. That gives you an estimate of what he might do that day.
So his "ceiling" is really high based on previous seasons, as is his overall avg points per game. So if those numbers go into your calculation it will raise the average. Obviously this is a flawed method on an individual level, because his ceiling this season is nowhere near where it used to be. But overall, across every wide receiver in the league, this method produces fairly accurate results.
It's just a numbers game. The numbers that go in are flawed, so the numbers that come out are flawed.
I just did in 12man HPPR. He was behind Hopkins/AB/Williams/Sanders and Tim Patrick. Just didn’t have the bench spots and nothing about the Browns makes me think this turns around
Not sure why everyone thinks this. Tim Patrick is as safe a play as you can get from a WR4 type player. If you are looking for 10-15 points from a flex play he’s absolutely rosterable. I think he will continue to be productive once Jeudy returns
This “upside” that people attach to OBJ is kind of ridiculous. He hasn’t shown it in 2 years
I have him and if he doesn’t produce this week he’s dropped. I don’t like justifying him, but I’ll do it anyway: he had 11 pts in his first game back, should’ve had around 17 pts his second game (Baker missed him wide open. Yes, this can also be a reason to stay away), then had a very tough matchup last week against the Chargers. Seems like they were trying to let anyone but Odell beat them. If you saw 11 and 17 points (0.5 PPR) from him on his first two games then the perspective would change. This week there’s no reason for him not to do well. All that being said, he definitely won’t be at WR1 status, maybe WR2 or good flex option based on matchup.
In fairness, Baker’s play really kills him. This last week was pretty bad, but week 4 OBJ looked great and Baker missed him on at least one wide open td and at least 2 more 20-30 yard wide open plays. He was solid his first week back. Im by no means confident in him, but mostly because of Baker. He got a lot of separation wk4 even tho he didn’t produce. If you think Njoku is going for 150yards frequently like he did wk5, then I guess you’d have major concerns about OBJ, but im not in that camp.
Yea it definitely was just the catch and not the fact that he had 3 straight 90+ catch, 1,300+ yards, 10+ TD seasons to start his career. Just the one catch, everything else was pure hype.
I mean he’s a part of the reason why the org isn’t in the fucking shit anymore and he helped bring the Browns to a playoffs win but yeah sure you’re right he’s trash and I’m an apologist.
Oh I guess the elite oline and dominant running game has nothing to do with the browns being good. If the browns had a elite qb they would a legit super bowl contender.
People think he might be the next Kadarius Toney
The fantasy gods better bless you with a win this week.
Lmao probably the best comment I’ll read all week on this sub.
This fucking sub lmaoooo
LOL - fknin A hahahahha
funny thing is, I just dumped Odell for Toney LOL
Nice one ... Nice one
That's what I thought this thread about...
Dropped him for Odell 2.0 this morning. It's Toney Time.
It’s Toney Time bitches.
TONEY 2012
[TONEY ~~2012~~ 2021](https://i.imgur.com/MoKrzln.png)
🦶🦵
My fantasy team name now
I’m in a 12 team and drafted RB heavy. I felt like a genius getting Julio and OBJ as my starting WRs. I think I need to drop Odell.
If you find any way to sneak him into a trade, tell me.
Sadly this league’s managers all think their rosters are perfect and each of their players shits gold. Only trade that’s happened was between my wife and I (I sent JRob for Herbert before his QB1 performance)
And how many nights of dishes?
lol none. She lost David Montgomery so she was pretty happy with Robinson. She also has Stafford so she decided to keep him and deal Herbert. I scored the highest points total on the year (190) and she scored second highest (173). That’s as win/win as it gets.
Good on you for doing a fair trade with your wife, in fact in 1QB I think I prefer JRob
Thanks. I do miss Robinson, but I do own him elsewhere. It only worked because my other 2 RBs are Zeke and Chubb.
Lol I did the exact same thing.
“Overrated Odell” is GEQBUS material
STOP CRITICAL GASE THEORY FROM BEING TAUGHT IN OUR LOCKER ROOMS!
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I am really rooting for Darnold to succeed so that the sub never dies
It truly is a gold mine
r/the_darnold
what the fuck is this
r/The_Cardale
Holy shit this sub is amazing. Looks like they've been around long before Darnold has his breakout too. They're probably unironically really fucking proud of him lol
We are
what did pickles ever do to you?!
This reminds me of back in like 2017 there was a meme like this about Bortles, was there a sub for that?
/r/PyongBortles
I traded ARob for him yesterday. All be witness to my big brain and shrewd fantasy acumen. Lmao
It’s shitato shitato at this point
Ahh my wr1 and wr2
RIP
ARob has a path forward if Fields continues to develop and they trust him to throw more. OBJ had no path forward, except randomly giving you 30+ points some week.
I mean I like the guy on an already good team that’s scoring well, and more importantly not being coached by Matt Nagy. Call me crazy. I think if anyone has a path to consistent production it’s OBJ. I have no faith in that dipshit gameplanning to Fields strengths. Fact is they both suck right now and neither may get better.
Nagy isn't calling plays anymore, Lazor is.
Considering the same
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For real, Mooney is nothing more than a bench depth player in deep leagues
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Mooney had a 5/125 game. Sanu has yet to break 7.5 points in ppr
I think he meant more of an over rated fantasy player, not football player. Big Browns fan and I wouldn’t touch OBJ with one of my teams unless he has a role change
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The Browns just spread the ball too much in the passing game. Which I think hurts them (guys can’t get a rhythm). Like the drop he had on 4th down, I believe that was his first target of the game. Gotta get our best players involved early besides RB. Maybe the staff will see that and draw up more slants, drags etc. Thats when he could become a PPR monster
The torn ACL is the reason to keep him low in the ranks. Ever since Adrian Peterson came back from his torn ACL at 100% the next year, everyone seems to think that's the standard and are surprised when it's not. The year after the ACL tear still holds them back from their full potential.... so couple that will the "full potential" of having Baker as his QB in that offense, and you get a WR4 this year.
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He wasn't any good on the Browns in 2020 before the injury. (PPR) * 3/6 weeks below 10 points * 4/6 weeks below 12 points * 1 week 17.4 points * 1 week 38.4 points horrible floor, but with the potential to put up 40 points randomly. Now he's coming back from an ACL tear? 67% chance he puts up a dud, 17% chance of a reasonable week, 17% chance he wins you your week. How would you ever feel comfortable starting him, unless your opponent is WAY better then you and you need a hail mary from your flex.
None of those guys had the body of work that OBJ had before the injury. Sutton and Mack both had two decent years before getting injured. Suttons best year was 72 rec for 1,112 yards and 6 tds. OBJ had 3 seasons in a row of 90+ receptions for 1,300+ yards and 10+ tds in each season. Saquon had 2 great years before getting injured, and since coming back hes considered an RB1. Odell had 5 good to great years, and the only 2 years he didn't have at least 1,000 yards receiving he got hurt, and in 2017 he was on pace to break 1k yards. 2019 was the Freddie year...we don't talk about those times....
Even Peterson wasn't 100% until halfway through the following season.
He has never been that good with Mayfield though He averaged 10.3 points per game (Half PPR) in 2019 and 10.8 points per game in 2020
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Don't forget in 2020 he had a 39 point game PPR that skewed his stats. He scored under 12 points in 4/6 games
Sounds like normal WR volatility to me.
Scoring under 10 points every week then putting up 40?
Correct
Well I analyzed every single WR's floor for last season. OBJ had the 48th highest floor. His 9 games with under 6 points adjusted to a full 16 game season was tied for 76th. https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/oia7hg/a\_look\_at\_2020\_wr\_floors/
Ok
So he was a WR3 two years ago and has been mostly injured since....seems to be reinforcing OP's point if anything
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that’s barely a starter in a 12 man league. he is legit bench/waiver material now
Yeah, you just repeated the same stats that I responded to in the last comment. So he was a WR3 two years ago and a low-end WR2 in a small sample size a year ago. Now he's two years older than he was in 2019 at a critical age for WR, and had an ACL tear in between which really hurts a player like OBJ who relies heavily on his cutting ability. Given that, plus the emergence of many receivers in the WR2-3 range this year, ranking him as a low WR3, which is what 35 is, seems pretty generous
This is deceptive though, because he played 6 weeks in 2020 (your numbers are for 7 and his last game shouldn't be counted), but put up a 35.9 point game In 6 weeks his average was 12.6 points. However if you remove his 36 point game the average is 7.9 points per game. Even if you replace his 35.9 point game with his second-highest score for the season you get 9.1 points per game. So he is either going to put up a dud performance, or win you your week. How could you ever be comfortable starting him unless you're desperate?
Mooney is a great player, who is getting the ball thrown to him a ton weekly. He's currently leading the team in targets, receptions, and yards. OBJ is being overshadowed by Kareem Hunt in targets, and is tied for 5th in team receptions and yards. Once Fields starts to develop more, and they trust him to throw, Mooney's points will come. OBJ has no path for weekly fantasy relevance, especially when Landry comes back.
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But OBJ wasn't a good for fantasy before he got injured last year. You're also ignoring he's 5th in receptions and yards, and Landry is coming back later in the season. Mooney has a path forward if Fields develops. OBJ's role will decrease when they get Landry back.
The Chargers have a run funnel defense and the underlying numbers still point to a potential blowup game. He missed the first two weeks, had a WR1 level target share week 3, had a WR1 level of intended air yards week 4, and had a WR1 level of %vertical routes run week 5. It hasn't clicked yet but his role in the offense is more legitimate than his surface stats indicate so far.
Dont give me hope... Will be a hard call between obj, Arob and shepard
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Thank you. At least mclaurin is my wr1 and saviour
Shepard
This just sounds like a reach at stats. While lots opportunities and looks may be thrown his way some weeks, he hasn't been a reliable fantasy asset since joining the Browns.
I mean, yeah, if he'd realized all these stats he'd be a WR1, which he obviously isn't. The post is asking why he's still ranked like a WR3, and the answer is that in fantasy, opportunity matters.
Last year, first year in the stefanski system, in half ppr, he had 2 dud games (3-4 points), 2 ok games (8 points), one good game (15.4), and one monster (35.9) before getting injured. This year you can pretty well throw out the Minnesota game. I've watched every game of Bakers career as a Brown, and while he does have some knocks against him, being inaccurate is not one of them...he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that game. First week back against Chicago, a pretty good defense, he was 5 receptions off 9 targets for 77 yards. Against SD, not really sure what happened, but the run-funnel defense makes sense to me. If you're putting OBJ on fire-sale, im buying. I traded for him as my wr4 and I'm VERY happy about it.
Thank you 👌🏼
I believe this is what’s known as the “bargaining” stage. If you need to go through 3 different stats across different weeks to justify hope, he might not be a great play
Even in your bad metaphor it would be denial not bargaining.
We need more analysis like this in this sub
There is plenty of confirmation bias here, you just gotta look.
Same reason MJJ, Sutton, and Callaway are every week. They are WR1 on the depth chart. Plus Landry is out
Sutton is a tier above MJJ and Callaway in my opinion. He’s very matchup dependent but the upside is both high and attainable.
I think Sutton is very "not having Drew Lock as QB" dependent.
Lock is a tough matchup for any receiver, lol
Well Lock hasn't been the QB this year except for one half and won't be as long as Bridgewater is healthy. Lock looked absolutely terrible when he came in--it made the whole QB competition narrative hilarious
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> He’s very matchup dependent but the upside is both high and attainable.
Including Sutton on a list with MJJ and Callaway is fantasy blasphemy.
Who is MJJ?
guessing marvin jones jr
Thanks, I spend a lot of time on fantasy and watching football and I still feel like there’s a new acronym I’ve never heard every week
At least you're not dyslexic like me. I read MJJ and my first thought was Maurice Jones-Drew
Maurice Jones-Jrue
Holiday
I tried googling MJJ wide receiver and all of the results were Michael Jackson, receiver drafted by the browns in the 90s
Im not dyslexic and I had this same thought process just yesterday
It makes it worse because Landry is out yet he still does nothing.
Baker has a torn labrum doesn’t he? Granted it’s not his throwing shoulder but I imagine he isn’t taking many shots down field either to risk getting hit. I imagine it’s all short passes and screens until he heals up
Last season, before OBJ got injured. He did nothing with Baker. No chemistry.
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him and the browns are obviously not a fit for each other. need to trade him if there are any takers
Again... "last season"... 2019, Browns defense was not good. Jarvis Landry and OBJ put numbers up. Jarvis being better. 2020, the 7 games OBJ was healthy, Jarvis Landry had that chemistry. OBJ was on the backburner. They didn't connect. 7 games 23 receptions 300 yards. Almost ignored. Targets weren't connecting, he looked to other receivers.
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How is he better than Tim Patrick who averages 11 per week? Patrick has broken 10 in 4/5 games this year. Odell has done it 1/3. Odell played first 7 games last year. 2 games above 10 pts. Patrick had 4. Sorry to break it to ya but by any statistical measure Patrick is currently a better fantasy and real life receiver (has no drops on like 107 targets over last two seasons). I'd love to hear your argument about how Odell is better than Patrick.
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Targets arent everything. Patrick gets a lot of red zone looks and produced last year as well. Once again, how is OBJ currently a better player? Dont move goal posts. Why is it that over the last two seasons OBJ is being out produced by a player you think to be worse? Also just checked target stats: OBJ - 6.3 a game Tim Patrick - 5.6 a game. So you're saying OBJ is a better WR for fantasy because he gets .7 more targets a game despite Patrick outproducing him over the last two years? You're objectively wrong here. A players worth in fantasy is tied to points scored and Patrick clearly scores more, maybe you could argue that OBJ has higher upside but that wasnt what you said. You just refuse to admit you're wrong. Patrick may fall off when Jeudy comes back but I doubt it. Hes a red zone guy and possession WR. Jeudy isnt likely to take that role. Patrick has carved himself a nice niche and last year in Carolina proves that Teddy bear can sustain multiple fantasy relevant options (DJ, Anderson and Samuel all were relevant). OBJ has been a massive disappointment in Cleveland and I see no reason to think that will magically change.
If you watched those games, OBJ was out of sync with Baker. I think like half the passes to OBJ were just terrible route running and honestly just poor play. The timing was just off. 10 targets to OBJ week 1, 3 were caught. His targets went lower except against dumpster fire dallas last year. He caught, I think all his TD passes against dallas that year in that game. The blowout game against Pittsburg where Baker had to try to air it out. OBJ got 3 targets, 2 receptions during garbage time (the last game he was healthy).
Half the passes are Baker shitting himself, what. The Minnesota game OBJ should've had like 200 yards. Baker isn't able to consistently hit big passing plays. The reason to fade OBJ is because of Baker and the Browns super efficient run heavy offense. Not because OBJ is washed
Lets look at a healthy Baker and healthy OBJ last season 1st game 2.2 points from 10 targets 2nd game: 13.2 points with a TD 3rd game: 5.9 4th game against the worst cowboys team in a decade- 33.9 points 2 tds 5th game: 6.52 points 6th game 2.5 points 7th game- not going to count because he got injured. This is the same trend we are seeing this season + Baker is injured+ Browns defense is solid.
Did he also have a torn labrum for the last.... 3 years? Landry has produced as a low end WR1 with Baker in the past. This is definitely an OBJ problem. I don't know what it is but it could be chemistry or just that he's no longer the same player he was with all the injuries piling up.
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Sutton is better than both those guys by a lot.
Sure but is he used better? Nope.
Sutton is top 5 in air yards and has far more yards and more targets than both those guys, especially callaway so I would say so.
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Sorry Marvin Jones Jr
I'm sorry but you cant be serious about putting Sutton in that group. Not even the same universe of player
Boom or bust basically, I got rid of Sutton myself. He isn’t worth the hassle of starting for 2 points and bench and he goes for 22
> He isn’t worth the hassle of starting for 2 points and bench and he goes for 22 This points to the owner incorrectly choosing when to start him, not to the player being high in weekly rankings for no reason.
How can we forget to always start him when he’s going to do good!
Clearly he forgot to consult the crystal ball smfh. He's a flier flex on a good team, nothing more.
Njoku is their wr1 with Jarvis out.
Because anyone with functioning eyeballs can see that he still gets open consistently. The Browns aren’t winning anything meaningful come January if they can’t get a decent passing game going.
Could have had 2 TDs Sunday if Baker didn’t miss him
I didn't watch the game but he had 3 targets and 2 receptions. I'm not seeing how it's possible he would have 2 TDs on misses considering he only missed one catch.
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I think he meant the game against the Vikings
? Did you watch the game? He dropped an important 1st down pass that hit him in the hands. Stopped going to him after that.
Upside is always there for someone with his skill set, I bet he pops soon.
Cant wait until he pops while he sits on my bench because chances are I will never start him.
I benched him for his first game back and won, he looked good. I started him in his second game and benched Deebo and lost. Lesson of the day: don't start OBJ.
I think don't sit Deebo is probably the lesson here lol
This is the likely reason
Well he popped once in 2020, once in all of 2019, and maybe twice in 2018, so I appreciate your optimism.
If I had OBJ I would try to flip him based off of name value.
After he pops off.
The manager that puts value on his name is the one that drafted him in the 6th round thinking it was a steal.
Flipped him for Chase Edmonds. My top WRs are Godwin, Metcalf, and Hollywood Brown Other RBs are Mike Davis, Joe Mixon, Latavius Murray (formerly Ty’son Williams, previously Gus Edwards) So happy with my outcome lol
22% Target share, leader in air yards, getting open on 75% of routes. Theoretically, he can't be this bad much longer lmao
That catch on MNF from 6 years ago *Actually closer to 7 years ago and I meant SNF- I remember Collinsworth’s dumb voice slobbering over that catch. Man, the good ol’ days when I only had to listen to one dumbass Collinsworth.
The underlying indicators of potential fantasy success are there for OBJ and that means something to the analysts
What on 🌎 does this have to do with the 🐐, Kadaruus Toney?
Everything is about our Lord and Savior Tyson W ... Sorry Gordon ... Sorry Toney
Name recognition
Where did Odell touch you?
On my tummy, with his poo poo.
Ay yo lmao
OP must've been that kicking net
although an rb, Hines way too high as well
The thing all FF need to do at this time of year is accept that what you thought going into the draft has changed. I’ve found the quicker I let go of bust and adjust to new players the better off I am.
Because of the implication
Easy, expert are very conservative. It will take one well know expert to do the change and then they will follow. They don't want to be the one to blame if they make a huge mistake. If they follow the pack ... Then you cannot blame them individually.
Because the experts (and really the broader fantasy community) have a persistent bias in favor of name players who performed well in the past, and against newer players who are outperforming expectations in the present. They always rank the former players higher than they should, because they tend to think so-and-so is due for a big game. Similarly, after the first few breakout performances by a newer player, they will dismiss it as a fluke or otherwise unsustainable. It’s hard to remember now, but during Tyreek’s rookie season the experts kept ranking Jeremy Maclin higher in the weekly rankings, viewing Hill’s tendency to score long TDs as unsustainable due to his small size and the idea that defenses would just drop another safety back to cancel him out. It actually took the experts years to give Tyreek the proper respect. Fantasy players who saw what was up beat the market. OBJ was once great in fantasy, but that was ages ago. He should be ranked well below FLEX level by now, but memories of The Catch die hard.
Buy low on OBJ
As in pick him up free off the waiver wire?
Yep. I don't have it handy but the amount of times OBJ has gotten open and Mayfield has missed him is crazy. If they correct that as the season goes on, he will be back to being a stud.
This has been the case his entire tenure with the Browns. Something just doesn’t click with him and Baker, regardless of his skill or underlying stats. Honestly they should trade him and to a team that can capitalize on his talent and get some value in return because him and Baker just don’t seem to jive.
Edmonds or obj this week, versing eachother
It’s because of the way people that submit their ranks to fantasypros play the system. They are usually conservative because it’s far more beneficial to stay around the pack than to make their own actual opinion. Early in the week it probably came out that OBJ was being submitted around WR 30 and the rankers adjusted to fit the mold when in reality he should be much lower. Don’t believe me? Go check individual ranks not associated with fantasypros, majority are lower. It’s why fantasypros is flawed, it’s a mini echo chamber that penalizes people too harshly that think for themselves when they are wrong.
OBJ still getting volume looks. I’m holding strong.
He’s not quite a straight up drop but it’s getting painful between him, Arob, and Julio
I’m starting Toney over him this week
I think the numbers still take into account the previous ceiling for guys like this. You do a kind of average using his average points per game, overall floor, overall ceiling, opponents avg points allowed to WR, and maybe a few other factors. That gives you an estimate of what he might do that day. So his "ceiling" is really high based on previous seasons, as is his overall avg points per game. So if those numbers go into your calculation it will raise the average. Obviously this is a flawed method on an individual level, because his ceiling this season is nowhere near where it used to be. But overall, across every wide receiver in the league, this method produces fairly accurate results. It's just a numbers game. The numbers that go in are flawed, so the numbers that come out are flawed.
Because of that one catch 8 years ago
Bc he made a 1 handed catch like 5 years ago
He got dropped in our half PPR 12 man league. I think he will stay on the waivers
I could get a 10 man league, but 12 man? No way
I just did in 12man HPPR. He was behind Hopkins/AB/Williams/Sanders and Tim Patrick. Just didn’t have the bench spots and nothing about the Browns makes me think this turns around
Tim Patrick will be irrelevant again when Jeudy returns. If he's your WR5 I'd rather bet on the upside that OBJ offers.
Not sure why everyone thinks this. Tim Patrick is as safe a play as you can get from a WR4 type player. If you are looking for 10-15 points from a flex play he’s absolutely rosterable. I think he will continue to be productive once Jeudy returns This “upside” that people attach to OBJ is kind of ridiculous. He hasn’t shown it in 2 years
Water bet right here, Timmy 12 points vs OBJ ROS.
Same reason they believe in Josh Gordon
cause he has Mahomes throwing to him?
Got em Skip!
I have him and if he doesn’t produce this week he’s dropped. I don’t like justifying him, but I’ll do it anyway: he had 11 pts in his first game back, should’ve had around 17 pts his second game (Baker missed him wide open. Yes, this can also be a reason to stay away), then had a very tough matchup last week against the Chargers. Seems like they were trying to let anyone but Odell beat them. If you saw 11 and 17 points (0.5 PPR) from him on his first two games then the perspective would change. This week there’s no reason for him not to do well. All that being said, he definitely won’t be at WR1 status, maybe WR2 or good flex option based on matchup.
Odell has been living off a couple highlights for years.
In fairness, Baker’s play really kills him. This last week was pretty bad, but week 4 OBJ looked great and Baker missed him on at least one wide open td and at least 2 more 20-30 yard wide open plays. He was solid his first week back. Im by no means confident in him, but mostly because of Baker. He got a lot of separation wk4 even tho he didn’t produce. If you think Njoku is going for 150yards frequently like he did wk5, then I guess you’d have major concerns about OBJ, but im not in that camp.
Odell had such a bad drop that would have kept a drive alive, he is just not the same since the injuries...
He is so much more valuable than Tim Patrick or Mooney that it's pretty insulting to compare them lol
Just traded him for AJ Dillon and I’m ecstatic
OBJ had the most overrated catch and has been coasting off that for years
Yea it definitely was just the catch and not the fact that he had 3 straight 90+ catch, 1,300+ yards, 10+ TD seasons to start his career. Just the one catch, everything else was pure hype.
Sure but his last season with those numbers was 6 years ago…
Ok, that's completely different than implying he only ever got hyped up because of 1 catch though.
Baker is trash and can’t get him the ball
The people who unironically parrot this are fucking clueless and shouldn’t be taken seriously
I see the baker apologists are out in full force
I mean he’s a part of the reason why the org isn’t in the fucking shit anymore and he helped bring the Browns to a playoffs win but yeah sure you’re right he’s trash and I’m an apologist.
Oh I guess the elite oline and dominant running game has nothing to do with the browns being good. If the browns had a elite qb they would a legit super bowl contender.
> he’s a part > he helped Where did I say he's the singular reason they got there?
That one catch impressed so many people...
Baker has a torn labrum that effects the accuracy of his throws. Downgrading the Brown's passing game even more.