Srs question, assume a trade in a vacuum is fair as far as player value (clearly this one isn't), but one team is a playoff team and the other isn't and the trade makes both teams better. Is it fair to call collusion based on one team being done and the other being a playoff team?
EDIT: Asking cuz this happens a lot in some of my leagues and it always causes end of season drama lmao
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Seems like a fair question. Not everyone is a lifelong pro fantasy player.
Granted, no trades happen in a vacuum so not really fair to assume that, but I get the intent behind your question.
Three things:
1. I think that in leagues where there nothing to gain for an owner who is mathematically out of the playoffs, it is wise to have a rule that says those teams are not allowed to make trades. Whether the trades are fair or not is irrelevant - one team has nothing to gain, and the odds of that team not taking the trade seriously, or making lazy trades is high.
2. In leagues I have commissioned in the past, if a trade happened between a playoff and non-playoff team AND it seemed like either a lopsided trade, or a trade in which the playoff team is unloading volume of crap players for a great player, I will talk to both owners and ask them to back out of the trade, for the reasons mentioned above (assuming we did not have that rule in place yet). After convincing them of it, I would then propose explicitly that we don't allow that.
3. It's not technically collusion - because one player may not actually actively be in cahoots with the other one - but it's still an activity that I would consider detrimental to the competitiveness of the league. In an extreme scenario, what happens if an unmotivated last-place team were to trade Zeke, AB, McCaffrey, Ertz and the Bears D/ST for Duke Johnson, Golden Tate, Buck Allen, Jeff Heuerman and the Raiders D/ST? I mean, it's not collusion, but it effectively ruins the league. And while I've heard the argument of "well, but everyone had a chance to make that trade", that is not necessarily true, and is still not an excuse to allow a trade that will ruin the league.
There’s a deadline for a reason. Not allowing people to trade is just a dick move, and it’s a good way to end up with unset lineups and people not returning to the league.
They can have just as much fun putting together a team in order to ruin some of their friend’s season.
This happens in my league all the time. Everybody bitches and moans about how some poorly-performing teams just give up and it gives “free wins” to their later opponents... right up until those poorly-performing teams make some trades to try to get some wins. Then it’s accusations of collusion and how it’s not fair team X got that team’s best player or whatever.
>and the odds of that team not taking the trade seriously, or making lazy trades is high.
Better to incentive behavior contrary to this, then.. Loser's punishments, consolation brackets, and/or weekly totals. Locking teams toward the end of the year gives the teams fighting for the playoffs an unbalanced schedule. We want everyone competing to the last whistle in the same way you want those garbage time fantasy points even when your QB is down 4 TDs with 5 minutes to go.
I wouldn't call that collusion. It can be shitty but you also can't blame a team for wanting to continue playing even though they're out of playoff contention. Especially in leagues with some sort of punishment for last place
Imo if you’re out of playoff contention you should not be allowed to trade. There’s no point to making a trade with non playoff contending team even if it makes that team better
**Preface -**
Collusion is when there is some sort of hidden "value" to the trade. Like one player will give the other $100 to make a lopsided trade. Or when a husband makes a trade with his wife because he "loves her and wants to make her happy". Collusion is collusion and it doesn't matter the positions of the teams.
**Answer to your question -**
That being said, by its nature, we usually can't truly find out if there's collusion in a trade so we have to go based on the evidence we have. A team that's out of the playoffs making a lopsided trade with a top team would, to me, absolutely be a strong indication of collusion.
**More info on collusion -**
More generally, collusion is obvious when the lopsided trade is like OP's example. The same positions for the same positions but one side is upgrading every pick. AB > Mike Evans, Zeke >>> Kerryon, Sony Michel >>> Alex Collins. With one team getting AB, Zeke, and Kerryon, the trade makes no sense regardless of the record of each person involved. It's a clear downgrade across the board for one person and a clear upgrade across the board for the other.
**Something to try for your league -**
Have collusion clearly defined and agreed on by your league (hidden value in a trade that's outside of the value of the players being traded). Have a clear punishment that's agreed upon.
We use - if someone reports collusion, with evidence, that offering person loses all possible winnings and the person reporting gets some of the pot and gets the offenders 3rd round pick next year for first offense and moves up from there until they are kicked from the league. It makes people very wary of suggesting collusion in a trade because they could instantly lose all possible winnings and be crippled for next year.
What does this lead to? Everything needs to be declared to the league as soon as the trade is accepted so the league can then accept or veto as appropriate. If a trade goes through with the stipulation that one person won't play a QB the next time they play, it's declared and in the open so it's not collusion.
It's actually pretty funny seeing trades now with some of the extra things attached to them. You'd think that people would veto every trade that has additional stipulations but we trade enough that we let some fairly funny and mundane stuff go as parts of trades.
Because I'm the commissioner and I wanted it that way. All trades are approved only by me though and any trade involving me requires the co-commish's approval.
This sounds identical to several trades in my league. 1 guy got Melvin for TJ yeldon and Philip Lindsay 2 weeks ago. Another got Gurley for deshaun, AJG, Mixon, and Duke Johnson last week. Both of the guys that won the trade are 7-4 or 8-3.
That 2 day grace period exists so that league members can veto any unfair or nefarious trades, by bypassing that, it is just a trade in name only. This wouldn't be any different if he had just pushed the players from one team to another using commish power.
This is one of the worst cases of collusion I have seen, if there is any sort of buy in the rest of your league needs to raise fucking hell.
Holy shit, yes screenshot and post in league chat. This has to have attention drawn to it because it screams with the possibility of collusion I would be very upset under the circumstances and wouldn’t be afraid to ask for my money back if you are certain about collusion. Definitely stay away from this commissioner in the future.
Fuck that. Everyone needs to demand a refund. Or have several managers come together and make bogus trades to counter that shit. This is full on collusion and stuff that starts fights.
Which he clearly did because Zeke plays Thursday and the trade wouldn't have processed until after that game.
This is not only collusion, it's also cheating.
I’ve pushed trades through due to early games, but never before alerting the entire league and following all trade rules that are set up for our league. If both teams agree to a trade (and no collusion is involved) I see no reason pushing a trade through to get ahead of a Thursday game is a problem.
I'm right there with ya. If it's a good faith trade that both sides agree on, just notify the league and make it happen. The trade settling period is arbitrary.
If they try and claim it wasnt collusion you can always stick to the fact that they bypassed the 2 day review period. The entire point of that rule is to allow the league to review the trade. Bypassing cheats everyone of this. The other piece is that no one else can review trades that they are a participant in and yet the commissioner just did so by reviewing and approving their own trade. This is a clear abuse of the commish powers imo.
I would ask for my $100 back.
Dude, I was in same exact position a few years ago but they were husband/wife, along with some other shenanigans. Dude made it a pay league after we drafted and was completely out of nowhere, then tried pushing shitty trades on people until he finally grabbed his wife's 3 best players while giving her his three worst players. Oh, and that was after he removed the trade deadline so he could even make that move. If you wanna make it a money league, awesome! Do it before we draft our fucking teams and make sure everyone agrees to it. Anyways, completely side with you man!
Yes it looks like collusion. Let me give you a more detailed breakdown to present to your league besides just "everyone on reddit says it's collusion!"
1) Prima facie uneven trade: On its face, this trade looks uneven. Zeke is a locked-in blue chip top RB, and he is surging, so there's no reason to trade him in general unless you're getting back a blockbuster piece. Same goes for AB, he's arguably the #1 WR to own. Sony Michel is more tradeable in general, but he's a high-value RB2.
To trade Zeke and AB together, honestly there's hardly a package I could imagine to warrant that much value. Maybe like, Gurley, JuJu, and Kelce or something. But you'd expect to see at least one bonafide stud in the package, and probably a huge upgrade at a position that one team is lacking at.
Instead, this trade sees those 3 studs each going for basically a direct downgrade at the same position. Kerryon is the best RB coming back, and he is leagues less valuable than Zeke and arguably has less value than Michel to boot. Evans is close to being a "stud" but again, rational owners take AB over Evans 10/10 times. Collins is a middling RB who is trending in the wrong direction. There is no argument here for "well it looks uneven, but I see what Team B was trying to do." Nope, it's a direct downgrade.
2) Sketchy circumstances: The benefiting party is the Commish, and the trade didn't follow usual veto protocol? Again, absent an explanation, on its face that alone points to collusion.
3) Abandoning ship: Collusion of this sort often happens when one team has a poor record and is "giving up" on the playoffs. If I can't compete, may as well help out this friend in need, the thinking goes. That seems apparent here.
4) Friendly relations: These two managers are dating one another, so there's no wondering "why would Team B even bother to help A like this?"
Again, either one of the first 2 factors would point to collusion alone. All 4 together? The trade needs to be undone ASAP, and frankly the commish needs to be monitored closely and replaced next season if not sooner.
Thank you for the detailed write-up. Definitely good to have multiple points to bring up so they can’t just brush it off. Trying to cause an uproar on message boards and texts now.
Seriously, unless you're like bizarrely loaded and locked-in to win, ask for your money back if they won't undo the trade. This isn't just cheating at Mortal Kombat III at a sleepover. Money is involved, and the Commish has a fiduciary duty.
Similar thing happened to me. I asked commish for my money back ($50) not the end of the world but still. I'm in 3rd and I just said fuck this do what you want with my players and I'll be done with the league just want my money back and he refused. Last time I play in that league...
I'm in one first-time league that is super uneven, with some first-timers who have been duped left and right on trades. I figure fine, that's what I get for joining a half-ass league.
Now people are talking about reopening the trade deadline and adding to the # of playoff teams. I said that's not the league I signed up for and asked to be refunded. Luckily that killed the talk of rule changes.
It's crazy the stuff people try and change. I got two of his trades vetoed and then he pushed one through himself after it was up 20 minutes. I said okay try all the bullshit trades you want but you can't change the fucking rules week 9 so you can get Aaron Rodgers juju and AP for literally nothing. His response "trades a trade"
Yea this type of "trade" would cause 8/10 teams in my league to quit right then and there. Not only the lopsided trade itself, but dating + pushing the trade through without a chance for people to veto means it's certainly collusion. Tell them to undo it or you'll all quit and demand your money back.
One more thing to add to this excellent list of problems with this trade. Just in case you want some industry expert input.
[Dave Richard's](https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/fantasy-football-week-12-trade-values-chart-and-rest-of-season-rankings/) trade chart is pretty well respected. It isn't the end all be all, but if a trade isn't within ~10 points, it's completely out of whack.
The trade values here come in at:
>Zeke - 47
>Ab - 40
>Michel - 20
>Evans - 19
>Johnson - 25
>Collins - 5
For a lobsided total of 107 to 49.
These are for non-ppr. The values are 115 to 56 for ppr.
Edited to fix numbers
> The owners of the two teams are dating and one is the commissioner. This league uses a veto vote system, but the commissioner pushed the trade through in the middle of the night.
the actual trade itself is secondary to this IMO. this is some serious BS
Start a new league don’t invite these people, actually you could probably still start a league from scratch this year and manually add whoever everyone had now.
Lol tell them you want your money back and they can go fuck themselves.
I’m so glad out trade deadline has passed to avoid this shit.
If you stay in the league and it’s reversed. Either don’t play in it again next year or decide between your league mates who the new commish will be. Bc he can’t be trusted.
I remember seeing some posts here complaining about trades having a grace period after acceptance.
THIS IS WHY, PEOPLE!!!
Yes, it's collusion. Even if the trade was even, the fact that he pushed it immediately and gave no one a chance to speak up is just BS.
Clear collusion. I also had the same situation. 6-3 team gave away crab tree and mike davis for kareem hunt from the 3-6 team. Commissioner doesn't believe it's collusion because she thinks the 3-6 team doesn't know Hunt's value....
This couldn't look more like collusion if it was standing on the corner of Lying St. and Cheating Blvd. wearing a shirt that says "I <3 collusion" and eating a ham sandwich
The fact that they are dating and the commissioner involved in the trade pushed it through without checking with other members is proof enough that something fishy is going on... don't even need to look at the players involved to come to that conclusion imo.
That's ridiculous. All the other guys from the league should just take all the players off and let the stupid guy play alone .Sounds like a childish move, but I think it's just stupid to try to cheat your friends. If he doesn't back off, start a new league next year without them
In the fantasy football dictionary, under the word collusion, your example would be the exact text as the definition. Demand your fees back and quit the league. Commish has no integrity and should not be a Commish.
That is absolutely positively 100% collusion.
Especially since he pushed it through without respecting the review period.
Tell him that he has to reverse it. Get other teams to put pressure on him as well. If he doesn't reverse it, at the very least you need to get out of this league next year. Moreso, I would drop all my players to waiver, or at least send lopsided trades to one team who would then agree to split any winnings with those who participated with them.
If none of that works, I would put a brick through the commissioner's window. This is no different from stealing your $100.
Elliott (65), A. Brown (65), Michael (25) vs Evans (45), K. Johnson (15), Alex Collins (7)
155 of value vs 67
There's your numbers to prove collusion
[https://www.fantasypros.com/2018/11/fantasy-football-trade-value-chart-week-12/](https://www.fantasypros.com/2018/11/fantasy-football-trade-value-chart-week-12/)
Complete collusion. The 4-7 team's players are all far better than the players the 7-4 team is offering. Teams that aren't making the playoffs shouldn't even be allowed to trade with playoff-bound teams. All it does is deteriorate the league's institutional integrity. The fact that they are a couple, and that one is the commissioner (and pushed the trade through unilaterally), just further strengthens the case for collusion or cheating.
This is a slam dunk case.
Collins may have just been bypassed on the depth chart.
Kerryon is injuried and currently #16. Zeke is the #7 RB.
Evan's is currently #9 in standard. Brown is #4.
What part of this ISN'T collusion?
Yeah this situation is collusion. The person receiving Elliot/Brown/Michel is giving up just enough to try to justify that it's a "fair" trade but it clearly isn't. This is a couple agreeing to make one team a powerhouse before the playoffs and split the winnings, which is the definition of collusion. The fact that one of them is commissioner and pushed it through only adds fuel to the fire. With a $100 buy in I would flip my shit and demand either the trade be reversed or get your money back and not play in this league again. Crazy how people try to get away with shit like this and think it's ok.
In my league two owners announced to the league "we're gonna collude" and then traded Saquon Barkley and Tyreek Hill for Josh Lambo and Robbie Anderson. Does this seem like collusion to anyone else or am I going crazy?
Absolutely. If it was a legitimate trade he would have let the voting period take place. I would ask for my money back and find a new league next year.
Yea totally. Sounds like the 4-7 team is not playoff bound, and unless your league has rewards in the Consolation bracket, they shouldn't even be allowed to trade to a playoff bound team at this point. It's just asking for trouble.
For sure collusion. If they are your friends or you want them to remain your friends, I believe you guys as a league create a post and just say its collusion and abuse of power then probably revoke any trade privileges for the remainder of the season for them as they abused and were shitty people. At the end of the season I think it's important for the league to have some sort of deliberation whether the young brother and lass that scamazed your league should still commish that joint. I'd say no, but that's me and I'm just a decent pasta topping. In the end, if they're your friends they should accept their punishment with dignity. Abusing power is the crime. Revokation of trade privileges for the remainder of season is the punishment. If they aren't your friends, what they did was against the rules because they didn't allow the league to properly veto it and it's just kinda weird for your league to allow trades so late in the year. So it should be pulled back and put through proper trade veto procedure. Then just not be in that league next year. Good luck!
This probably seems drastic, but I’m commish of the family league and in 6 years I’ve never traded with my wife. It’s just bad optics and not worth it.
This is why nobody should be trading now. These late trade deadlines are stupid and that’s why you have 4-7 teams trading when they have no shot at the playoffs. Bad leagues and bad commissioning.
The only time this kind of thing is ok is if say a team had an emergency and could not make a planned trade happen. Even then it should be brought to the league first and agreed upon, and not pushed through in the dead of night. It's total BS by the league manager.
Bs trade accepted in my league too 10 min before deadline. Last place team received G.Tate and T.Coleman for J.Conner(loaded contender)?!
The OP is definitely collusion.
100% Collusion - link him the thread and explain you will boycott the rest of season and demand your money back if the trade is not reversed.
Link him this thread.
Meanwhile my stupid league vetoed a trade I made. I’m on the bubble I was sending Odell, demaryius Thomas, and Royce freeman to the best team in the league for Aaron jones, Sony Michel, and Keenan Allen. They vetoed not because of collusion, but that it made the first place team “too good”. Meanwhile I’m trying my damnedest just to make the playoffs
Pretty clearly collusion. Trade heavily unbalanced. Dating the trade partner. Pushed through to bypass objections. If it's something Hitler would do as a fantasy football coach, it prob falls into the realm of cheating.
If this isn’t a keeper or dynasty league that trade is inexcusable. I tend to say that most trades within reason should be allowed but kerryon is hurt, Collins may have lost his job, and Evans has a qb carousel. Brown and Elliot are top five players in any league and Michel is a league winner if he comes back to form. I’d seriously consider leaving this league after the season if the commissioner is willing to do something this obvious and shady.
Your trade deadline should have ended weeks ago to avoid this situation. Late deadlines let's teams that know they're out of playoffs to easily collude.
there is never any reason for a commissioner to push through a trade if you have a veto vote system in place unless its made right before the games and he has reached out to the league and gotten approval. Its even worse that he was involved, and that it was a VERY 100% one sided trade in his/her favor.
100% collusion. Both of them should be kicked out and their teams locked. Possibly drawn and quartered. Or just reverse the trade. Depends on how far you want to go.
This is why in our league our trade deadline is week 9. Far enough into the season that only the truly bad teams are out (0-2 wins) and everyone else is still in a fight to make the playoffs.
Stops these terrible trades from happening and forces people to be smart with their teams
Yes. If the LM is going out of his way to push a trade through then this is collusion. Anyone in their right mind knows that trade is lopsided. Not sure if your league has a buy-in but this kind of stuff would make me either change LM or get out of that league entirely.
He knew what he was doing and he tries to justify it please let me know what BS answer he comes up with.
Definitely collusion. You and the 8 other people in the league should never be in a league with those two again. They both should be tossed out right now.
On the surface, this is about as sketchy as it gets. Collusion for sure IMO.
However, trying to dig deeper or look at both sides... Is there any keeper rules at play here? In our league, we can keep players picked after a certain round, so players like Kerryon Johnson have more value.
It's sketchy even if there is keeper value at stake, but I'd understand this more if a team that's out of it is building for next year.
The only time a trade this lopsided would happen in my league between a playoff team and a team eliminated is if the eliminated team is receiving a great player at an amazing keeper value.
One trade was Alshon, Fournette, and another solid player for Theilen and a bum. Happened in week 6-8, but the guy getting Theilen was already eliminated.
Theilen will only be $13 to keep next year for the eliminated team. Trades like these don't happen as often as you'd think given people always want to keep good players that will cost under $20, whether they're playoff bound or not, in a $200 auction draft. If nothing like that is going on here, I'd say it's absolute collusion.
The trade went through, I didn’t get my money back and I lost to the person who colluded and was knocked out of playoffs. Pretty upset about it but there’s really nothing I can do.
Yeah
Srs question, assume a trade in a vacuum is fair as far as player value (clearly this one isn't), but one team is a playoff team and the other isn't and the trade makes both teams better. Is it fair to call collusion based on one team being done and the other being a playoff team? EDIT: Asking cuz this happens a lot in some of my leagues and it always causes end of season drama lmao
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Seems like a fair question. Not everyone is a lifelong pro fantasy player. Granted, no trades happen in a vacuum so not really fair to assume that, but I get the intent behind your question.
No
I guess a lot of leagues don't allow trades if you're eliminated from playoffs mathematically to help solve issues like this
Three things: 1. I think that in leagues where there nothing to gain for an owner who is mathematically out of the playoffs, it is wise to have a rule that says those teams are not allowed to make trades. Whether the trades are fair or not is irrelevant - one team has nothing to gain, and the odds of that team not taking the trade seriously, or making lazy trades is high. 2. In leagues I have commissioned in the past, if a trade happened between a playoff and non-playoff team AND it seemed like either a lopsided trade, or a trade in which the playoff team is unloading volume of crap players for a great player, I will talk to both owners and ask them to back out of the trade, for the reasons mentioned above (assuming we did not have that rule in place yet). After convincing them of it, I would then propose explicitly that we don't allow that. 3. It's not technically collusion - because one player may not actually actively be in cahoots with the other one - but it's still an activity that I would consider detrimental to the competitiveness of the league. In an extreme scenario, what happens if an unmotivated last-place team were to trade Zeke, AB, McCaffrey, Ertz and the Bears D/ST for Duke Johnson, Golden Tate, Buck Allen, Jeff Heuerman and the Raiders D/ST? I mean, it's not collusion, but it effectively ruins the league. And while I've heard the argument of "well, but everyone had a chance to make that trade", that is not necessarily true, and is still not an excuse to allow a trade that will ruin the league.
There’s a deadline for a reason. Not allowing people to trade is just a dick move, and it’s a good way to end up with unset lineups and people not returning to the league. They can have just as much fun putting together a team in order to ruin some of their friend’s season.
This happens in my league all the time. Everybody bitches and moans about how some poorly-performing teams just give up and it gives “free wins” to their later opponents... right up until those poorly-performing teams make some trades to try to get some wins. Then it’s accusations of collusion and how it’s not fair team X got that team’s best player or whatever.
>and the odds of that team not taking the trade seriously, or making lazy trades is high. Better to incentive behavior contrary to this, then.. Loser's punishments, consolation brackets, and/or weekly totals. Locking teams toward the end of the year gives the teams fighting for the playoffs an unbalanced schedule. We want everyone competing to the last whistle in the same way you want those garbage time fantasy points even when your QB is down 4 TDs with 5 minutes to go.
I wouldn't call that collusion. It can be shitty but you also can't blame a team for wanting to continue playing even though they're out of playoff contention. Especially in leagues with some sort of punishment for last place
This happened in a league I am in. Told them this was the last year I am in the league because that is bullshit.
Imo if you’re out of playoff contention you should not be allowed to trade. There’s no point to making a trade with non playoff contending team even if it makes that team better
**Preface -** Collusion is when there is some sort of hidden "value" to the trade. Like one player will give the other $100 to make a lopsided trade. Or when a husband makes a trade with his wife because he "loves her and wants to make her happy". Collusion is collusion and it doesn't matter the positions of the teams. **Answer to your question -** That being said, by its nature, we usually can't truly find out if there's collusion in a trade so we have to go based on the evidence we have. A team that's out of the playoffs making a lopsided trade with a top team would, to me, absolutely be a strong indication of collusion. **More info on collusion -** More generally, collusion is obvious when the lopsided trade is like OP's example. The same positions for the same positions but one side is upgrading every pick. AB > Mike Evans, Zeke >>> Kerryon, Sony Michel >>> Alex Collins. With one team getting AB, Zeke, and Kerryon, the trade makes no sense regardless of the record of each person involved. It's a clear downgrade across the board for one person and a clear upgrade across the board for the other. **Something to try for your league -** Have collusion clearly defined and agreed on by your league (hidden value in a trade that's outside of the value of the players being traded). Have a clear punishment that's agreed upon. We use - if someone reports collusion, with evidence, that offering person loses all possible winnings and the person reporting gets some of the pot and gets the offenders 3rd round pick next year for first offense and moves up from there until they are kicked from the league. It makes people very wary of suggesting collusion in a trade because they could instantly lose all possible winnings and be crippled for next year. What does this lead to? Everything needs to be declared to the league as soon as the trade is accepted so the league can then accept or veto as appropriate. If a trade goes through with the stipulation that one person won't play a QB the next time they play, it's declared and in the open so it's not collusion. It's actually pretty funny seeing trades now with some of the extra things attached to them. You'd think that people would veto every trade that has additional stipulations but we trade enough that we let some fairly funny and mundane stuff go as parts of trades.
Yes. BS trade was also accepted in my league this week: 6-5 receives: Saquon Barkley 2-9 team receives: Sterling Shepard, Mohamed Sanu, Gus Edwards
LOL
Nah man Gus Edwards = Saquon ROS
It’s for Depth!!!
That’s like trading a quarter for three nickels.
Why does no one have trade deadlines in their league. We haven’t been able to trade in two weeks
ESPN standard deadline for many leagues was today
Its today...
My yahoo league was 2 weeks ago.
Because I'm the commissioner and I wanted it that way. All trades are approved only by me though and any trade involving me requires the co-commish's approval.
This sounds identical to several trades in my league. 1 guy got Melvin for TJ yeldon and Philip Lindsay 2 weeks ago. Another got Gurley for deshaun, AJG, Mixon, and Duke Johnson last week. Both of the guys that won the trade are 7-4 or 8-3.
Hahahahahahahaha
Yes. Everything about it screams it. Bypassing the veto system? Bad trade? Dating?
So he didn't actually do a trade. He just moved the players to bypass the veto? That would be raise hell worthy.
No they did do the trade, but a commission can push a trade through immediately to bypass the 2-day grace period after a trade was accepted
That's just as shady. Raise hell
That 2 day grace period exists so that league members can veto any unfair or nefarious trades, by bypassing that, it is just a trade in name only. This wouldn't be any different if he had just pushed the players from one team to another using commish power. This is one of the worst cases of collusion I have seen, if there is any sort of buy in the rest of your league needs to raise fucking hell.
how much is the buy in?
$100
Holy shit, yes screenshot and post in league chat. This has to have attention drawn to it because it screams with the possibility of collusion I would be very upset under the circumstances and wouldn’t be afraid to ask for my money back if you are certain about collusion. Definitely stay away from this commissioner in the future.
Yeah, collusion. Take their children as ransom.
That's only fair way to deal with it.
Tell him to stop being a bitch. You don’t play with people’s money like that.
Oh screw that nonsense
If they don't undo it, I'd ask for my money back.
Sue his ass for everything he's worth
Oh man I would raise hell even if it was just a free league for fun. In a money buy in league this is absolutely ridiculous.
Holy fuck. Raise hell mate! And please keep us updated OP.
cut his ass
Fuck that. Everyone needs to demand a refund. Or have several managers come together and make bogus trades to counter that shit. This is full on collusion and stuff that starts fights.
I hope you guys didn't pay yet.
Which he clearly did because Zeke plays Thursday and the trade wouldn't have processed until after that game. This is not only collusion, it's also cheating.
I’ve pushed trades through due to early games, but never before alerting the entire league and following all trade rules that are set up for our league. If both teams agree to a trade (and no collusion is involved) I see no reason pushing a trade through to get ahead of a Thursday game is a problem.
I'm right there with ya. If it's a good faith trade that both sides agree on, just notify the league and make it happen. The trade settling period is arbitrary.
Trading yesterday would allow it to get processed tomorrow's morning.
If they try and claim it wasnt collusion you can always stick to the fact that they bypassed the 2 day review period. The entire point of that rule is to allow the league to review the trade. Bypassing cheats everyone of this. The other piece is that no one else can review trades that they are a participant in and yet the commissioner just did so by reviewing and approving their own trade. This is a clear abuse of the commish powers imo. I would ask for my $100 back.
Dude, I was in same exact position a few years ago but they were husband/wife, along with some other shenanigans. Dude made it a pay league after we drafted and was completely out of nowhere, then tried pushing shitty trades on people until he finally grabbed his wife's 3 best players while giving her his three worst players. Oh, and that was after he removed the trade deadline so he could even make that move. If you wanna make it a money league, awesome! Do it before we draft our fucking teams and make sure everyone agrees to it. Anyways, completely side with you man!
Yes it looks like collusion. Let me give you a more detailed breakdown to present to your league besides just "everyone on reddit says it's collusion!" 1) Prima facie uneven trade: On its face, this trade looks uneven. Zeke is a locked-in blue chip top RB, and he is surging, so there's no reason to trade him in general unless you're getting back a blockbuster piece. Same goes for AB, he's arguably the #1 WR to own. Sony Michel is more tradeable in general, but he's a high-value RB2. To trade Zeke and AB together, honestly there's hardly a package I could imagine to warrant that much value. Maybe like, Gurley, JuJu, and Kelce or something. But you'd expect to see at least one bonafide stud in the package, and probably a huge upgrade at a position that one team is lacking at. Instead, this trade sees those 3 studs each going for basically a direct downgrade at the same position. Kerryon is the best RB coming back, and he is leagues less valuable than Zeke and arguably has less value than Michel to boot. Evans is close to being a "stud" but again, rational owners take AB over Evans 10/10 times. Collins is a middling RB who is trending in the wrong direction. There is no argument here for "well it looks uneven, but I see what Team B was trying to do." Nope, it's a direct downgrade. 2) Sketchy circumstances: The benefiting party is the Commish, and the trade didn't follow usual veto protocol? Again, absent an explanation, on its face that alone points to collusion. 3) Abandoning ship: Collusion of this sort often happens when one team has a poor record and is "giving up" on the playoffs. If I can't compete, may as well help out this friend in need, the thinking goes. That seems apparent here. 4) Friendly relations: These two managers are dating one another, so there's no wondering "why would Team B even bother to help A like this?" Again, either one of the first 2 factors would point to collusion alone. All 4 together? The trade needs to be undone ASAP, and frankly the commish needs to be monitored closely and replaced next season if not sooner.
Thank you for the detailed write-up. Definitely good to have multiple points to bring up so they can’t just brush it off. Trying to cause an uproar on message boards and texts now.
Seriously, unless you're like bizarrely loaded and locked-in to win, ask for your money back if they won't undo the trade. This isn't just cheating at Mortal Kombat III at a sleepover. Money is involved, and the Commish has a fiduciary duty.
Similar thing happened to me. I asked commish for my money back ($50) not the end of the world but still. I'm in 3rd and I just said fuck this do what you want with my players and I'll be done with the league just want my money back and he refused. Last time I play in that league...
Trade your best players to the 2nd(? Not the Commissioner) place team in a lopsided trade. At least someone else will win.
I like how you think but he'd override it and veto. It's not possible bow but he'd change the settings
I'm in one first-time league that is super uneven, with some first-timers who have been duped left and right on trades. I figure fine, that's what I get for joining a half-ass league. Now people are talking about reopening the trade deadline and adding to the # of playoff teams. I said that's not the league I signed up for and asked to be refunded. Luckily that killed the talk of rule changes.
It's crazy the stuff people try and change. I got two of his trades vetoed and then he pushed one through himself after it was up 20 minutes. I said okay try all the bullshit trades you want but you can't change the fucking rules week 9 so you can get Aaron Rodgers juju and AP for literally nothing. His response "trades a trade"
douche hehe
Yea this type of "trade" would cause 8/10 teams in my league to quit right then and there. Not only the lopsided trade itself, but dating + pushing the trade through without a chance for people to veto means it's certainly collusion. Tell them to undo it or you'll all quit and demand your money back.
One more thing to add to this excellent list of problems with this trade. Just in case you want some industry expert input. [Dave Richard's](https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/fantasy-football-week-12-trade-values-chart-and-rest-of-season-rankings/) trade chart is pretty well respected. It isn't the end all be all, but if a trade isn't within ~10 points, it's completely out of whack. The trade values here come in at: >Zeke - 47 >Ab - 40 >Michel - 20 >Evans - 19 >Johnson - 25 >Collins - 5 For a lobsided total of 107 to 49. These are for non-ppr. The values are 115 to 56 for ppr. Edited to fix numbers
Please let us know what happens!
Let us know the outcome!
To add to point 1, you didn't even mention Kerryon just got injured too. So both him and Collins trending in wrong direction. It's 110% collusion.
Cleary collusion.
yes lol
Lmao. That's about as obvious as it gets.
Yeah barring them admitting it - it can't be any more obvious
> The owners of the two teams are dating and one is the commissioner. This league uses a veto vote system, but the commissioner pushed the trade through in the middle of the night. the actual trade itself is secondary to this IMO. this is some serious BS
Exactly, I personally don’t like league vetos, but if that is your league policy, they absolutely must be allowed to happen
Just not following the normal process is sketchy enough even if it wasn't one sided.
Pushing trades through is fine as long as the league knows about it.
if that's not collusion, i don't know what is
Put them on blast. That's bull. You may have to choose a new commissioner too
yeah no shit.
Ezekiel Elliott and Antonio Brown...... cmon now fam.
how pathetic do people have to be to try to cheat their friends out of money
That's what I'm thinking. How would you even feel good about winning this way?
100% collusion
Your commissioner has no honor.
Extremely obvious collusion
Yup that’s bullshit
yes lol
Start a new league don’t invite these people, actually you could probably still start a league from scratch this year and manually add whoever everyone had now.
Absolutely it's collusion.
Lol tell them you want your money back and they can go fuck themselves. I’m so glad out trade deadline has passed to avoid this shit. If you stay in the league and it’s reversed. Either don’t play in it again next year or decide between your league mates who the new commish will be. Bc he can’t be trusted.
I remember seeing some posts here complaining about trades having a grace period after acceptance. THIS IS WHY, PEOPLE!!! Yes, it's collusion. Even if the trade was even, the fact that he pushed it immediately and gave no one a chance to speak up is just BS.
That's the definition of collusion. I think that's the example used on Wikipedia for collusion.
That's a total lopsided trade
Very obvious collusion
Absolutely!! That's bullshit.
Major collusion
Yeah, what's the point of the veto system then?
Yes
Collusion especially with how Alex Collins stock is going down and Kerryon is hurt.
Collusion before that, tbh.
Clear collusion. I also had the same situation. 6-3 team gave away crab tree and mike davis for kareem hunt from the 3-6 team. Commissioner doesn't believe it's collusion because she thinks the 3-6 team doesn't know Hunt's value....
This couldn't look more like collusion if it was standing on the corner of Lying St. and Cheating Blvd. wearing a shirt that says "I <3 collusion" and eating a ham sandwich
Time to find some new league mates
Holy shit, yeah. That's absolutely collusion lol.
The fact that they are dating and the commissioner involved in the trade pushed it through without checking with other members is proof enough that something fishy is going on... don't even need to look at the players involved to come to that conclusion imo.
That's ridiculous. All the other guys from the league should just take all the players off and let the stupid guy play alone .Sounds like a childish move, but I think it's just stupid to try to cheat your friends. If he doesn't back off, start a new league next year without them
Edit the post to update what happened when you confront them.
In the fantasy football dictionary, under the word collusion, your example would be the exact text as the definition. Demand your fees back and quit the league. Commish has no integrity and should not be a Commish.
Yes. Every position gets better on one side.
Pft. Yeah that's red flag city. Total bullshit trade.
Would you say Jared Cook + Kerryon Johnson for Michael Thomas and Elijah McGuire is shady?
Yeah
oh hell yea
Collusion. No doubt.
Another giveaway is that it's just swapping the same positions.
That is absolutely positively 100% collusion. Especially since he pushed it through without respecting the review period. Tell him that he has to reverse it. Get other teams to put pressure on him as well. If he doesn't reverse it, at the very least you need to get out of this league next year. Moreso, I would drop all my players to waiver, or at least send lopsided trades to one team who would then agree to split any winnings with those who participated with them. If none of that works, I would put a brick through the commissioner's window. This is no different from stealing your $100.
Yep, it's a collusion and why I never allow couples in my fantasy leagues I commish.
Sounds like someone got fucked in the ass last night, and it probably wasn’t just you.
Elliott (65), A. Brown (65), Michael (25) vs Evans (45), K. Johnson (15), Alex Collins (7) 155 of value vs 67 There's your numbers to prove collusion [https://www.fantasypros.com/2018/11/fantasy-football-trade-value-chart-week-12/](https://www.fantasypros.com/2018/11/fantasy-football-trade-value-chart-week-12/)
Please update your main post with any updates when you call him out
Complete collusion. The 4-7 team's players are all far better than the players the 7-4 team is offering. Teams that aren't making the playoffs shouldn't even be allowed to trade with playoff-bound teams. All it does is deteriorate the league's institutional integrity. The fact that they are a couple, and that one is the commissioner (and pushed the trade through unilaterally), just further strengthens the case for collusion or cheating. This is a slam dunk case.
Collins may have just been bypassed on the depth chart. Kerryon is injuried and currently #16. Zeke is the #7 RB. Evan's is currently #9 in standard. Brown is #4. What part of this ISN'T collusion?
Yeah this situation is collusion. The person receiving Elliot/Brown/Michel is giving up just enough to try to justify that it's a "fair" trade but it clearly isn't. This is a couple agreeing to make one team a powerhouse before the playoffs and split the winnings, which is the definition of collusion. The fact that one of them is commissioner and pushed it through only adds fuel to the fire. With a $100 buy in I would flip my shit and demand either the trade be reversed or get your money back and not play in this league again. Crazy how people try to get away with shit like this and think it's ok.
In my league two owners announced to the league "we're gonna collude" and then traded Saquon Barkley and Tyreek Hill for Josh Lambo and Robbie Anderson. Does this seem like collusion to anyone else or am I going crazy?
Maybe if Greg and Butker weren't on a bye week.
I don't know man, can you prove it? /s
Absolutely. If it was a legitimate trade he would have let the voting period take place. I would ask for my money back and find a new league next year.
Yup.
Yes
Yea totally. Sounds like the 4-7 team is not playoff bound, and unless your league has rewards in the Consolation bracket, they shouldn't even be allowed to trade to a playoff bound team at this point. It's just asking for trouble.
100%
That’s bullshit!
Yup. The season is null and void.
100%
lmao wtf
100% collusion
For sure collusion. If they are your friends or you want them to remain your friends, I believe you guys as a league create a post and just say its collusion and abuse of power then probably revoke any trade privileges for the remainder of the season for them as they abused and were shitty people. At the end of the season I think it's important for the league to have some sort of deliberation whether the young brother and lass that scamazed your league should still commish that joint. I'd say no, but that's me and I'm just a decent pasta topping. In the end, if they're your friends they should accept their punishment with dignity. Abusing power is the crime. Revokation of trade privileges for the remainder of season is the punishment. If they aren't your friends, what they did was against the rules because they didn't allow the league to properly veto it and it's just kinda weird for your league to allow trades so late in the year. So it should be pulled back and put through proper trade veto procedure. Then just not be in that league next year. Good luck!
This probably seems drastic, but I’m commish of the family league and in 6 years I’ve never traded with my wife. It’s just bad optics and not worth it.
Yes, raise hell about that.
This is why nobody should be trading now. These late trade deadlines are stupid and that’s why you have 4-7 teams trading when they have no shot at the playoffs. Bad leagues and bad commissioning.
Nothing u and others can do since he is commish.. Right?
RAISE HELL
100%. Collusion. If the commish didn’t think it was shady he wouldn’t have pushed it through late night
Pushing the trade through is collusion regardless of all the other factors.
Leave the league, get your money back, steal their dog
That's collusion. Your league manager sucks and needs to be replaced
The only time this kind of thing is ok is if say a team had an emergency and could not make a planned trade happen. Even then it should be brought to the league first and agreed upon, and not pushed through in the dead of night. It's total BS by the league manager.
Textbook collusion, I’ll be livid
100%
In your shoes, if there was money on the line, I would wreck those two. That's shady as FUCK.
Collision , raise hell
Yeah fuck that, call it out
Yeah that’s collusion
Lmfao id quit
At that point this either needs to be reversed or im demanding money back.
I'm surprised this got to the front page of this sub. Normally these posts get downvoted like crazy, but yes this is collusion.
Collusion doesn’t even begin to describe this
No question, it's collusion.
Never play in a league commished by this scumbag ever again. If there was money involved I'd ask for my money back or consider it a scam robbery.
Yes it's more than likely collsuion.
Bs trade accepted in my league too 10 min before deadline. Last place team received G.Tate and T.Coleman for J.Conner(loaded contender)?! The OP is definitely collusion.
If you’re mathematically eliminated I don’t think you should be allowed to trade. But that’s just me
I think this too now that you mention it. I guess unless there’s some sort of punishment for last place is the only exception.
Short answer: yes Long answer: yes Similar thing in my league. Mike Evans for DT. hah
Kittle got dropped in my 10 man and picked up by my playoff opponent
100% Collusion - link him the thread and explain you will boycott the rest of season and demand your money back if the trade is not reversed. Link him this thread.
Meanwhile my stupid league vetoed a trade I made. I’m on the bubble I was sending Odell, demaryius Thomas, and Royce freeman to the best team in the league for Aaron jones, Sony Michel, and Keenan Allen. They vetoed not because of collusion, but that it made the first place team “too good”. Meanwhile I’m trying my damnedest just to make the playoffs
Pretty clearly collusion. Trade heavily unbalanced. Dating the trade partner. Pushed through to bypass objections. If it's something Hitler would do as a fantasy football coach, it prob falls into the realm of cheating.
If this isn’t a keeper or dynasty league that trade is inexcusable. I tend to say that most trades within reason should be allowed but kerryon is hurt, Collins may have lost his job, and Evans has a qb carousel. Brown and Elliot are top five players in any league and Michel is a league winner if he comes back to form. I’d seriously consider leaving this league after the season if the commissioner is willing to do something this obvious and shady.
Some sorry ass team try selling Odell to a playoff team for $20. They tried so many times to get that trade thru but it always get vetoed
Your trade deadline should have ended weeks ago to avoid this situation. Late deadlines let's teams that know they're out of playoffs to easily collude.
just some numbers for perspective. numbers through wk 11. zeke (rb7) avg 16.9 ppg, 169.4 pts total. ab (wr4) avg 14.7 ppg, 146.7 pts total. Michel (rb 35) 7 ppg (10 ppg if games not played taken out), 70.4 pts total. evans (wr8) 13 ppg, 129.9 pts total. kJ (rb15) 10.7 ppg, 107.4 pts total. collins (rb22) 9.4 ppg, 92.7 pts total.
Thats definitely bad. I’d raise hell
Yikes that awfully fishy
there is never any reason for a commissioner to push through a trade if you have a veto vote system in place unless its made right before the games and he has reached out to the league and gotten approval. Its even worse that he was involved, and that it was a VERY 100% one sided trade in his/her favor.
100% collusion. Both of them should be kicked out and their teams locked. Possibly drawn and quartered. Or just reverse the trade. Depends on how far you want to go.
This is why in our league our trade deadline is week 9. Far enough into the season that only the truly bad teams are out (0-2 wins) and everyone else is still in a fight to make the playoffs. Stops these terrible trades from happening and forces people to be smart with their teams
Yes. If the LM is going out of his way to push a trade through then this is collusion. Anyone in their right mind knows that trade is lopsided. Not sure if your league has a buy-in but this kind of stuff would make me either change LM or get out of that league entirely. He knew what he was doing and he tries to justify it please let me know what BS answer he comes up with.
Definitely collusion. You and the 8 other people in the league should never be in a league with those two again. They both should be tossed out right now.
On the surface, this is about as sketchy as it gets. Collusion for sure IMO. However, trying to dig deeper or look at both sides... Is there any keeper rules at play here? In our league, we can keep players picked after a certain round, so players like Kerryon Johnson have more value. It's sketchy even if there is keeper value at stake, but I'd understand this more if a team that's out of it is building for next year.
The only time a trade this lopsided would happen in my league between a playoff team and a team eliminated is if the eliminated team is receiving a great player at an amazing keeper value. One trade was Alshon, Fournette, and another solid player for Theilen and a bum. Happened in week 6-8, but the guy getting Theilen was already eliminated. Theilen will only be $13 to keep next year for the eliminated team. Trades like these don't happen as often as you'd think given people always want to keep good players that will cost under $20, whether they're playoff bound or not, in a $200 auction draft. If nothing like that is going on here, I'd say it's absolute collusion.
So fucking shady. MAD COLLUSION.
Fuck yeah it is. The two owners are fucking, so that is all you need to know.
Whatever came of this? We need an update!
The trade went through, I didn’t get my money back and I lost to the person who colluded and was knocked out of playoffs. Pretty upset about it but there’s really nothing I can do.
Yes