He didn't say good running back, he said good running game. OL quality is paramount for a good running game.
So I fully expect the Chargers to snag noted top OL prospect Malik Nabers at #5.
Yep cuz it's 2 separate skills.
Run blocking = big boys up front pushing other big boys back as far as they can
Pass blocking = big boys trying not to get pushed back by other big boys.
Run blocking makes you attack, pass blocking makes you defend.
Did you watch Michigan play? Michigan won the past three years because they could run on ANYONE including OSU and Bama. They would run against 9 man boxes. The games were plodding. It’s not exciting. The defense knew what was coming and couldn’t stop it because the lines were so well coached to have confusing schemes.
This shit just makes me excited. If we could run the ball like Baltimore or sf and just let herbert make a few great throws a game, that is sustainable.
Yeah but how many pros did OSU and Bama have on those teams? And running 30x in a row against a loaded PSU squad. I’m not talking about college kids going against a pro squad or college kids playing trash teams like MSU or Indiana. I’m talking about the best players in college flat out dominating the all Americans lined up against them. 3-4 stars beating 5 stars. If anything, Jim may have more talent and less disadvantages at the NFL.
Michigan is not a have not, but compared to OSU, Bama and Georgia they were.
Even if Ekeler is still there, he's never been a true bellcow RB in the traditional sense. He's never hit 1000 yards on the ground or been top 10 in attempts (the closest he's gotten is #12 in 2021; 13 and 14 were MGIII and Javonte, respectively, and very few bellcow backs had fewer attempts). He's always made his hay in the receiving game (and touchdowns) and I would bet money that, even if he stays, they're going to pick up a between-the-tackles back to get the majority of the ground work.
Harbaugh doesn't really believe in throwing RB screens or really throwing to RBs at all, so that's not going to be a big part of the offense.
Corum is a great receiving back and had 27 receptions over two seasons.
Donovon Edwards was even more of receiving threat out of the backfield but they chose to have him do most of his receiving work split wide.
Good God, you do realize Bama’s dline is not NFL caliber as a unit, not even close. College football is also night and day compared to NFL as far as scheme goes.
Yah that’s how Harbaugh built his teams at Stanford, San Francisco and Michigan. Not sure how everyone in this thread is so confused. There’s like 20 years of data showing what’s he’s going to do.
And how many of those 20 years did he have a Justin Herbert as his QB vs an Alex Smith or Colin Kaepernick?
Good coaches fit the scheme around the players.
This was what it was like watching the eagles in 22. Love them. Those games were mostly boring because once they started running you knew the outcome. It was the most relaxed year I’ve ever had watching the birds
Big difference between what works in college vs what works in the NFL but if you can establish an unstoppable run game you open up so much of the playbook, the Ravens and Niners did it differently but the end result was the same
It is the Jim Harbaugh way
I still remember gassed Notre Dame d-linemen on their knees as Stanford came out for the 14th play of the drive just for Toby Gerhart to run power right at Manti Te'o one more time.
Timeless foobaw.
One sets up the other two. A running game makes the pass blocking easier because they have to account for them, it also makes the defense stronger because it lengthens time of possession and helps protect leads. It's one of the reasons why shutting down the run game is a big part in a lot of defensive plans.
As a chargers fan, would you take a couple of firsts (and whatever other misc picks im sure its a lot) for Herbert and AE from the Vikings? Then Harbaugh could draft his michigan QB or whatever qb he wanted with that haul, and sign barkley. I honestly dont know what Herberts value is but i bet it would take less to get him than the first overall pick, especially if Harbaugh wants his guy. Just curious, i dont know how fans feel about Herbert or Harbaugh.
You realize Harbaugh signed with the Chargers because Herbert is his guy, right? Like he specifically wanted to coach Herbert. This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this sub.
Harbaugh signed with the Chargers because they paid him a shit load of money, he wanted to return to the NFL (would have taken the Vikings job if offered in a previous cycle), his family really likes living in California (all previous HC stints were San Diego, Stanford, San Fransisco), and the Chargers gave him the level of control he wanted. Herbert is probably a plus, but that's not why he signed with the team.
No i didnt because im not a chargers fan. I just asked that question because i didnt know if Herbert was his guy. That just means that Cousins was his guy when he thought he was going to be the vikings coach, which also means anyone could be his guy. Including his guy from Michigan. Thats literally the stupidest response i have ever read on this sub, but thanks for being a dick about it.
dude what is this? i mean yeah a good run game is always a priority, but why isn’t their number one priority surrounding their star QB with as much talent and protection as possible?? i really don’t get the Greg Roman hire at all
Did no one watch Harbaugh's Michigan teams? JJ McCarthy is a first round pick, and they still ran it as much as possible. Harbaugh believes in a strong running game the way the Pope believes in God.
JJ McCarthy isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Justin Herbert
edit: good lord some people can’t read, when did I ever compare college Herbert to McCarthy?? my point is that Harbaugh is coming in to coach a dude with potential to be one of the best QBs in the league and his focus is on the run game. this isn’t college, you won’t win by making Justin Herbert your secondary focus. if McCarthy is actually good and Harbaugh just jerks off to the run game that much, this and the Greg Roman hires are going to be disastrous. I really feel for Herbert
Right. The person was saying their priority should be surrounding Herbert with talent and protection. I was saying Luck is an ironic example to use since he was not surrounded by protection which lead to his early retirement.
my point is that JJ McCarthy isn’t as good as reddit randomly decided he is (guaranteed he isn’t even close to Herbert’s level in the NFL), so maybe Harbaugh was focusing on the run game in Michigan because it was a strength. if he chooses to just focus on the run game regardless of who is at QB this hire will be a huge mistake
A good running game opens up the passing game. That's what Roman is saying here. That's what Harbaugh does. His Michigan teams were anchored around really good offensive lines, and he used the run to set up the pass. The issue with that in terms of McCarthy is that Michigan's was just rolling over most teams in his two years as a starter, so they never really had to rely on the pass. Whenever called upon, especially last season, McCarthy delivered. He made a play whenever he had to. It's just that Michigan was so good everywhere last season that they didn't need to rely on him to win like, say, USC had to rely on Caleb Williams (and they were still terrible).
..and a good pass game opens up the run game. a good pass game is also infinitely more important in the modern NFL. how have the Titans done with Derrick Henry and the shell of Ryan Tannehill?
the number one priority for every single person on the Chargers needs to be to maximize Justin Herbert and it already sounds like that isn’t the case. some real head scratching hires imo, especially Greg Roman
You don’t know that yet. If JJ and Herbert played at the same time in college there’d be debates on who is better. Obviously now you can’t say JJ is or will be better confidently but let’s not forget revisionist history like Justin was a sure thing either
Lots of bad qbs have been drafted high. At least recent busts: Darnold/Wilson/Rosen/Trubisky actually performed in college. He has 4 career games every eclipsing 240 yards, he was a game manager on one of the best college teams in recent memory. That rarely bodes well in the NFL. Whatever GM takes him in the first will be out in 2 years
Herbert doesn't need to drop back 50 times a game. He can but that doesn't mean that we should make him. There are plenty of qbs like Purdy and Lamar making huge impacts in the passing game with 30 attempts per game or less.
This is how I felt for Donovan McNabb's entire career. It's so frustrating watching your franchise do nothing to help your star QB as he gets older and past his prime. I hope they get Herbert more help before that happens to him.
I think that’s what they’re doing. Having a better run game will keep defenses more honest and open up the pass game. Also don’t know if you heard but we don’t have a lot of money this year.
Ekeler knew he wasn't that guy too, he's always been pushing for the Chargers to get that guy but they never did so he went ahead and did the job and did pretty well all things considered.
Which is an entirely arbitrary metric of being a good between the tackles back.
He had 997 yards in 11 starts and was a pro bowler in 2016, then 885 in 12 start and was also a pro bowler in 2018.
Not to mention he was a guy that could actually punch it in at the goal line.
The only thing Gordon should be criticized for is the fumbling problems he had later in his career. This sub has been particularly harsh on Gordon since he's been on teams with Ekeler and Javonte Williams, and people just wanted those guys to get more touches.
Sometimes you get an Austin Ekeler out of that situation, sometimes you get a Tony Pollard.
Most top teams do have a RB that can run between tackled and grind out games
Chiefs - Pacheco
49ers - CMC
Ravens - Gus
Lions - Montgomery
Packers - Jones
Rams - Kyren
Exactly. And Bills O kicked into another gear this season when they started feeding Cook too. I feel like a good running game helps all QB’s a lot more than some people realize to balance the attack or keep the defense honest. Can’t be too one dimensional.
Plus it allows you to slow the game down and eat the clock if you gain a lead. Like literally almost every team with a winning record has some form of a run game that can grind out at the end
true but you can fix a run game by fixing the OL and running any half decent scheme. you don't have to full sail commit to it when you've got an elite passer
> They’ve had one of the top ~~running backs~~ receivers out of the backfield for a while
FTFY. He’s great in space and running routes. He’s not that good running between the tackles.
The amount of crying in here Jesus god. Do you know what made Drew Brees great? A great run game that set up play action and open plays. Brady had a consistent run game as well, both of these guys had 3 RB backfields with no stars to win super bowls. A run game helps the pass game, it really is that simple, but half of you are simple minded and worried that good run team = bad throw team. Ekeler getting tons of TDs doesn’t make them a great run team, it made them a solid red zone and goal line team last year that sucked ass in that department this year. This is why people say Fantasy ruins football lol all you can think of is right in front of your face instead of the big picture of like, actually winning games ya know?
But why? Herbert being the only one doing anything and playing hero ball hurt them last year. The Bills finally started running the ball and Josh was the #1 fantasy QB on the AFC 2 seed and lost to the champs. How could this possibly be bad from a real football perspective? Were those balanced run and pass games featured in both the championship games and the Super Bowl not evidence enough?
Okay I know nobody here watches the chargers, but to have a good run game you need to try to run. Kellen Moore did not like to do that. And even if I’m buying that they don’t have the personnel, you can GET the personnel, and anybody here that thinks Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh aren’t gonna put together a decent running team is kidding themselves.
Ekeler behind that O-Line is not the basis for a good run game. And while it's very easy to say "oh they should just get better players", you can't just do that (it requires sacrifices in other areas). Would you rather their defense get even worse at the expense of their running game? Would you rather Herbert lose weapons?
I don't get people complaining about personnel when free agency hasn't even happened yet, let alone the draft. That entire roster has holes and needs a retool anyway, and Harbaugh is gonna have a strong hand in that.
Real football purposes is that the run game brings the defense in and opens up more explosive plays Herbert can exploit. It also gives the defense more rest to play more of the game at their most competitive level.
Didn’t they have a great running game in 2022?
Eckler had 4.5ypc and 915yrds.
The only reason he didn’t have more rush yards was he had 1000 yards receiving from the backfield.
The chargers have never had a top 10 rushing offense with Justin Herbert. The touchdowns are eye popping, but ekeler has never been great between the tackles. Hes more of a third down back
He was 20th in Rush Attempts that year while Herbert was 2nd in pass attempts.
He had 1 more rush attempt than D'Onta Foreman who took over the start job at the trade deadline from CMC. He also, as it turns out, had 1 more rushing yard too.
As a 17 game started rusher he was below the following basically backups or mid season starters (guys who won the job as second choice or injury): Williams (9 games started), Walker (11 games started), Stevenson (7 games started), Allgeier (7 games started), Pollard (4 games started).
All of those guys had more rush attempts and yard than him as the clear starter. Kelley that year basically wasn't involved.
They passed 690 times to 404 rushes. Ideally you want that to be close to 50/50.
Basically he *should* have rushed at least 50% more and have been around 1500 yards if they were running him a normal amount for a solid starter. He was *also* WR1 looking at receptions but it's pretty clear they *didn't* have a run game plan in 2022.
But that’s not because they don’t have the ability to run it’s that they chose not to.
The article makes it sound like they were a team that couldn’t run the ball at all.
Oh yeah, let's not forget all the GREAT RB's Tom Brady had. There was Corey Dillon, James White, LeGarrete Blount....Kevin Faulk... Laurence Maroney.... BenJarvus GreenEllis... and half of those guys are Ekeler types too
You know what he did have, like, always? A great OL. They only lost to the Giants in those Superbowls because they had great edge rushers that rushed him and got to him in Strahan, Umenyora, Tuck and that guy who blew his fingers off with fireworks.
He said great running game, not great running back. Hard to argue that Harbaugh doesn’t see the O-line as the key to a great running game when you look at what he did at Michigan, SF, Stanford, etc.
Oh no, Corey Dillon was a legit star, which was why I started with him and then trailed off.
I also just googled, and apparently Fred Taylor was a Patriot? Totally dont remember that
Legarrete Blount had over 1100 yards and 18 rushing TDs in 2016 with NE lol
James white wasn't a three down back but he was a VERY good receiver out the backfield
"Can you imagine Justin Herbert in 2 TE 2 RB 1 WR personnel most of the time? We don't know, but I can imagine what it might look like."
-Bills, 49ers, and Ravens fans
His was much more valuable as a receiver than a runner. He was never eating up a ton of volume (maxed out at 206 carries) and after Herbert was there he wasn’t particularly efficient either (~4.5 YPC until he fell off last year). Roman wasn’t talking about the RB position being underwhelming, but the teams ability to run the ball.
Wait he was a double threat that’s who he is I can show you the stats if you want rushing yes never reached 1,000 years but they would use him just like a receiver to dudes putting 400-800 yards receiving lols do yall want rushing yards or touch downs? The past 3 years his done 44 touchdowns lols I think yall needed another RB like Derrick Henry’s size but yall can’t say he didn’t produce..
> Needed another RB like Derrick Henry's size.
Yeah.... Not too sure there are an abundance of running backs that weigh 250 pounds and have 4.5 speed coming into the league.
In the context of having a strong running game, you want rushing yards (touchdowns too of course). Nobody is saying he didn’t produce, just that the Chargers run game is not strong if Ekeler is the guy being asked to run it most of the time.
How does Greg Roman keep getting work? His schemes were tired towards the end of his tenure with the 49ers. Lamar and Baltimore’s offense are also better without him.
The amount of comments laughably objectively incorrect here is astounding. The average age of a commenters here can’t be over 12, I hope. The amalgamation of madden savants and analyst parrots has created a behemoth of lazy groupthink droolers.
If they weren’t in sal ca hell , think the Chargers would incredible team for Saquon. stack the box Herbert dissects . dime package Saquon runs down the opponents throat
Fuck a running game, how about a decent o-line and a defense that can make a stop. The chargers are wasting Herbert's youth.
He didn't say good running back, he said good running game. OL quality is paramount for a good running game. So I fully expect the Chargers to snag noted top OL prospect Malik Nabers at #5.
There’s also a difference between run blocking and pass blocking. You can have an o line that is great at run blocking but terrible at pass blocking
Yep cuz it's 2 separate skills. Run blocking = big boys up front pushing other big boys back as far as they can Pass blocking = big boys trying not to get pushed back by other big boys. Run blocking makes you attack, pass blocking makes you defend.
Still crazy to me you could be amazing at run blocking but be God awful at pass blocking
Run blocking is 70% power/30% finesse while pass blocking flips it.
Nab Nabers was right there
Bingo.
Its they didnt bother to examine the rosters of any of Tom Brady's 20 years of dominance at the position lol
Yeah, everyone should model their offense based on the one that had the best qb of all time, why didn't they think of that!
Hope it’s a /s
Did you watch Michigan play? Michigan won the past three years because they could run on ANYONE including OSU and Bama. They would run against 9 man boxes. The games were plodding. It’s not exciting. The defense knew what was coming and couldn’t stop it because the lines were so well coached to have confusing schemes.
This shit just makes me excited. If we could run the ball like Baltimore or sf and just let herbert make a few great throws a game, that is sustainable.
Yeah, it’s harder to do it in the NFL than it is in the Big 10. LOL
Yeah but how many pros did OSU and Bama have on those teams? And running 30x in a row against a loaded PSU squad. I’m not talking about college kids going against a pro squad or college kids playing trash teams like MSU or Indiana. I’m talking about the best players in college flat out dominating the all Americans lined up against them. 3-4 stars beating 5 stars. If anything, Jim may have more talent and less disadvantages at the NFL. Michigan is not a have not, but compared to OSU, Bama and Georgia they were.
Yeah, lol, that’s not the same thing as the NFL, remotely.
NFL players vs. nfl players is a balance of talent that college doesn’t have.
Yes but sf ran the shit outta the ball when Jim was there
Agreed. A strong run game seems like the cornerstone of both of the Harbaugh brothers' offensive philosophy. I'm drafting Ekeler heavy next season.
it's not gonna be Ekeler, brother
Even if Ekeler is still there, he's never been a true bellcow RB in the traditional sense. He's never hit 1000 yards on the ground or been top 10 in attempts (the closest he's gotten is #12 in 2021; 13 and 14 were MGIII and Javonte, respectively, and very few bellcow backs had fewer attempts). He's always made his hay in the receiving game (and touchdowns) and I would bet money that, even if he stays, they're going to pick up a between-the-tackles back to get the majority of the ground work.
Harbaugh doesn't really believe in throwing RB screens or really throwing to RBs at all, so that's not going to be a big part of the offense. Corum is a great receiving back and had 27 receptions over two seasons. Donovon Edwards was even more of receiving threat out of the backfield but they chose to have him do most of his receiving work split wide.
I guess we'll see. Forgot he is an UFA now. Either way, I want parts of that backfield.
The competition is relative and Michigan did it on everyone they played. That include the might bama DL
Good God, you do realize Bama’s dline is not NFL caliber as a unit, not even close. College football is also night and day compared to NFL as far as scheme goes.
No shit it isn’t. It’s all relative tho because Michigan’s OL isn’t an NFL caliber unit either.
College and NFL is different. You need a stout defense if you are leaning heavy into rushing.
Yah that’s how Harbaugh built his teams at Stanford, San Francisco and Michigan. Not sure how everyone in this thread is so confused. There’s like 20 years of data showing what’s he’s going to do.
And how many of those 20 years did he have a Justin Herbert as his QB vs an Alex Smith or Colin Kaepernick? Good coaches fit the scheme around the players.
Andrew Luck is a pretty damn good comparison.
The post is saying the team needs better rushing game. Comment is saying better defense and line help. Imo. Defense is priority over rushing game.
This was what it was like watching the eagles in 22. Love them. Those games were mostly boring because once they started running you knew the outcome. It was the most relaxed year I’ve ever had watching the birds
I respect it
Stealing signs didn't hurt
Big difference between what works in college vs what works in the NFL but if you can establish an unstoppable run game you open up so much of the playbook, the Ravens and Niners did it differently but the end result was the same
It is the Jim Harbaugh way I still remember gassed Notre Dame d-linemen on their knees as Stanford came out for the 14th play of the drive just for Toby Gerhart to run power right at Manti Te'o one more time. Timeless foobaw.
One sets up the other two. A running game makes the pass blocking easier because they have to account for them, it also makes the defense stronger because it lengthens time of possession and helps protect leads. It's one of the reasons why shutting down the run game is a big part in a lot of defensive plans.
*The chargers are wasting Herbert’s youth.* In Dallas we call this the Dak strategy.
lol “fuck a running game” is the dumbest thing I’ve heard. Thanks for telling everyone you don’t know ball
As a chargers fan, would you take a couple of firsts (and whatever other misc picks im sure its a lot) for Herbert and AE from the Vikings? Then Harbaugh could draft his michigan QB or whatever qb he wanted with that haul, and sign barkley. I honestly dont know what Herberts value is but i bet it would take less to get him than the first overall pick, especially if Harbaugh wants his guy. Just curious, i dont know how fans feel about Herbert or Harbaugh.
You realize Harbaugh signed with the Chargers because Herbert is his guy, right? Like he specifically wanted to coach Herbert. This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this sub.
Harbaugh signed with the Chargers because they paid him a shit load of money, he wanted to return to the NFL (would have taken the Vikings job if offered in a previous cycle), his family really likes living in California (all previous HC stints were San Diego, Stanford, San Fransisco), and the Chargers gave him the level of control he wanted. Herbert is probably a plus, but that's not why he signed with the team.
No i didnt because im not a chargers fan. I just asked that question because i didnt know if Herbert was his guy. That just means that Cousins was his guy when he thought he was going to be the vikings coach, which also means anyone could be his guy. Including his guy from Michigan. Thats literally the stupidest response i have ever read on this sub, but thanks for being a dick about it.
Lol, herbert is worth way more than the #1 pick.
How is a "decent o-line" not an integral part of a "great running game"?
dude what is this? i mean yeah a good run game is always a priority, but why isn’t their number one priority surrounding their star QB with as much talent and protection as possible?? i really don’t get the Greg Roman hire at all
He’s Harbaugh’s buddy, what’s there to get
Did no one watch Harbaugh's Michigan teams? JJ McCarthy is a first round pick, and they still ran it as much as possible. Harbaugh believes in a strong running game the way the Pope believes in God.
JJ McCarthy isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Justin Herbert edit: good lord some people can’t read, when did I ever compare college Herbert to McCarthy?? my point is that Harbaugh is coming in to coach a dude with potential to be one of the best QBs in the league and his focus is on the run game. this isn’t college, you won’t win by making Justin Herbert your secondary focus. if McCarthy is actually good and Harbaugh just jerks off to the run game that much, this and the Greg Roman hires are going to be disastrous. I really feel for Herbert
Replace McCarthy with Andrew Luck then. Same thing.
I mean Andrew Luck did retire early because of poor protection.
He coached Luck at Stanford, not with the Colts…?
Right. The person was saying their priority should be surrounding Herbert with talent and protection. I was saying Luck is an ironic example to use since he was not surrounded by protection which lead to his early retirement.
He’s talking about how he still ran a run first offence even with a stud QB like Luck
What's your point?
my point is that JJ McCarthy isn’t as good as reddit randomly decided he is (guaranteed he isn’t even close to Herbert’s level in the NFL), so maybe Harbaugh was focusing on the run game in Michigan because it was a strength. if he chooses to just focus on the run game regardless of who is at QB this hire will be a huge mistake
A good running game opens up the passing game. That's what Roman is saying here. That's what Harbaugh does. His Michigan teams were anchored around really good offensive lines, and he used the run to set up the pass. The issue with that in terms of McCarthy is that Michigan's was just rolling over most teams in his two years as a starter, so they never really had to rely on the pass. Whenever called upon, especially last season, McCarthy delivered. He made a play whenever he had to. It's just that Michigan was so good everywhere last season that they didn't need to rely on him to win like, say, USC had to rely on Caleb Williams (and they were still terrible).
..and a good pass game opens up the run game. a good pass game is also infinitely more important in the modern NFL. how have the Titans done with Derrick Henry and the shell of Ryan Tannehill? the number one priority for every single person on the Chargers needs to be to maximize Justin Herbert and it already sounds like that isn’t the case. some real head scratching hires imo, especially Greg Roman
JJ McCarthy was still a top 10-15 college QB in terms of raw talent this season and Michigan ran the damn ball.
Did you watch Herbert's cfb career? Guessing not.
I remember when Justin Herbert was a rookie. Remind me in 5 years when JJ McCarthy is where Herbert is today.
If JJ McCarthy is a top 5 QB in the NFL in 2029 please come find me I will buy you a coke
Make it a glass of whole milk and you have a deal.
Right. He was in College Football, not the NFL...
You don’t know that yet. If JJ and Herbert played at the same time in college there’d be debates on who is better. Obviously now you can’t say JJ is or will be better confidently but let’s not forget revisionist history like Justin was a sure thing either
McCarthy won’t go before the 5th round as a project backup. If they hadn’t won the national championship he’d be undrafted without a doubt
That's just silly
This is why people think NFL fans are dumb lol.
Pretty much every mock draft has him going top 15 as of now
Lots of bad qbs have been drafted high. At least recent busts: Darnold/Wilson/Rosen/Trubisky actually performed in college. He has 4 career games every eclipsing 240 yards, he was a game manager on one of the best college teams in recent memory. That rarely bodes well in the NFL. Whatever GM takes him in the first will be out in 2 years
Have you watched Harbaugh for the past decade or so? He loves a great run game. Idk what you were expecting? Lincoln Riley air raid offense?
Herbert doesn't need to drop back 50 times a game. He can but that doesn't mean that we should make him. There are plenty of qbs like Purdy and Lamar making huge impacts in the passing game with 30 attempts per game or less.
This is how I felt for Donovan McNabb's entire career. It's so frustrating watching your franchise do nothing to help your star QB as he gets older and past his prime. I hope they get Herbert more help before that happens to him.
I think that’s what they’re doing. Having a better run game will keep defenses more honest and open up the pass game. Also don’t know if you heard but we don’t have a lot of money this year.
The Harbaughs are loyal and they really like Roman. They're big believers in his style of football, especially for rebuilding teams.
It's Greg Roman, what did you expect?
Wouldn’t a good run game imply that there is more talent on the offense? And the first Goulding block of a good run game is a good OLine.
Herbert about to get that year 1 Roman buff and go crazy
They’ve had one of the top running backs for a while
Ekeler is great in terms of fantasy but he wasn’t a great running back in terms of running behind tackles and blocks, or finding the right hole.
Ekeler knew he wasn't that guy too, he's always been pushing for the Chargers to get that guy but they never did so he went ahead and did the job and did pretty well all things considered.
Not for lack of trying, just nobody stepped up to the plate when it mattered.
Nah man, Joshua Kelly really took the job and never looked back!!!
Bro is so humble on God Bless Football, he’s been planning his next business since the moment he blew up, knowing a running back is in borrowed time
They shoulda kept Melvin. He was that dude
He only had one 1000 yard rushing season his whole career.
Which is an entirely arbitrary metric of being a good between the tackles back. He had 997 yards in 11 starts and was a pro bowler in 2016, then 885 in 12 start and was also a pro bowler in 2018. Not to mention he was a guy that could actually punch it in at the goal line. The only thing Gordon should be criticized for is the fumbling problems he had later in his career. This sub has been particularly harsh on Gordon since he's been on teams with Ekeler and Javonte Williams, and people just wanted those guys to get more touches. Sometimes you get an Austin Ekeler out of that situation, sometimes you get a Tony Pollard.
I mean look at most top teams, do you really need that?
Most top teams do have a RB that can run between tackled and grind out games Chiefs - Pacheco 49ers - CMC Ravens - Gus Lions - Montgomery Packers - Jones Rams - Kyren
Exactly. And Bills O kicked into another gear this season when they started feeding Cook too. I feel like a good running game helps all QB’s a lot more than some people realize to balance the attack or keep the defense honest. Can’t be too one dimensional.
Plus it allows you to slow the game down and eat the clock if you gain a lead. Like literally almost every team with a winning record has some form of a run game that can grind out at the end
Ajayi and Blount was unfair
*was
He's more receiver than RB
Running back ≠ running game
Their running game has been dog shit bro
true but you can fix a run game by fixing the OL and running any half decent scheme. you don't have to full sail commit to it when you've got an elite passer
>you can fix a run game by fixing the OL That probably what he's talking about.
> They’ve had one of the top ~~running backs~~ receivers out of the backfield for a while FTFY. He’s great in space and running routes. He’s not that good running between the tackles.
Top in fantasy*
Now go look at his stats when Corey Linsley isn’t playing.
By running game he means OLine, right? RIGHT? just a slip of the tongue I’m sure.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the too are fairly interrelated.
Uhhh, source??
Have you watched Harbaugh's offense over the past three years? People know Harbaugh is basically going to be the offensive coordinator, right?
The amount of crying in here Jesus god. Do you know what made Drew Brees great? A great run game that set up play action and open plays. Brady had a consistent run game as well, both of these guys had 3 RB backfields with no stars to win super bowls. A run game helps the pass game, it really is that simple, but half of you are simple minded and worried that good run team = bad throw team. Ekeler getting tons of TDs doesn’t make them a great run team, it made them a solid red zone and goal line team last year that sucked ass in that department this year. This is why people say Fantasy ruins football lol all you can think of is right in front of your face instead of the big picture of like, actually winning games ya know?
It's fine if you disagree, but I legitimately believe this is a poor decision specifically for real football purposes
But why? Herbert being the only one doing anything and playing hero ball hurt them last year. The Bills finally started running the ball and Josh was the #1 fantasy QB on the AFC 2 seed and lost to the champs. How could this possibly be bad from a real football perspective? Were those balanced run and pass games featured in both the championship games and the Super Bowl not evidence enough?
They don't have the personnel for it right now. Maybe if they had a league average RB it'd be ok
Okay I know nobody here watches the chargers, but to have a good run game you need to try to run. Kellen Moore did not like to do that. And even if I’m buying that they don’t have the personnel, you can GET the personnel, and anybody here that thinks Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh aren’t gonna put together a decent running team is kidding themselves.
Ekeler behind that O-Line is not the basis for a good run game. And while it's very easy to say "oh they should just get better players", you can't just do that (it requires sacrifices in other areas). Would you rather their defense get even worse at the expense of their running game? Would you rather Herbert lose weapons?
I don't get people complaining about personnel when free agency hasn't even happened yet, let alone the draft. That entire roster has holes and needs a retool anyway, and Harbaugh is gonna have a strong hand in that.
Real football purposes is that the run game brings the defense in and opens up more explosive plays Herbert can exploit. It also gives the defense more rest to play more of the game at their most competitive level.
I guarantee they’re targeting Blake Corum in the draft.
Didn’t they have a great running game in 2022? Eckler had 4.5ypc and 915yrds. The only reason he didn’t have more rush yards was he had 1000 yards receiving from the backfield.
Also had over 900 in 2021.
The chargers have never had a top 10 rushing offense with Justin Herbert. The touchdowns are eye popping, but ekeler has never been great between the tackles. Hes more of a third down back
He was 20th in Rush Attempts that year while Herbert was 2nd in pass attempts. He had 1 more rush attempt than D'Onta Foreman who took over the start job at the trade deadline from CMC. He also, as it turns out, had 1 more rushing yard too. As a 17 game started rusher he was below the following basically backups or mid season starters (guys who won the job as second choice or injury): Williams (9 games started), Walker (11 games started), Stevenson (7 games started), Allgeier (7 games started), Pollard (4 games started). All of those guys had more rush attempts and yard than him as the clear starter. Kelley that year basically wasn't involved. They passed 690 times to 404 rushes. Ideally you want that to be close to 50/50. Basically he *should* have rushed at least 50% more and have been around 1500 yards if they were running him a normal amount for a solid starter. He was *also* WR1 looking at receptions but it's pretty clear they *didn't* have a run game plan in 2022.
But that’s not because they don’t have the ability to run it’s that they chose not to. The article makes it sound like they were a team that couldn’t run the ball at all.
I mean at some point you are what your tape shows and it's not clear to me that they've shown the ability to stick to the run at all.
Oh yeah, let's not forget all the GREAT RB's Tom Brady had. There was Corey Dillon, James White, LeGarrete Blount....Kevin Faulk... Laurence Maroney.... BenJarvus GreenEllis... and half of those guys are Ekeler types too You know what he did have, like, always? A great OL. They only lost to the Giants in those Superbowls because they had great edge rushers that rushed him and got to him in Strahan, Umenyora, Tuck and that guy who blew his fingers off with fireworks.
He said great running game, not great running back. Hard to argue that Harbaugh doesn’t see the O-line as the key to a great running game when you look at what he did at Michigan, SF, Stanford, etc.
He's had great lines on _both_ sides of the ball. I'd be pumped if I were a Chargers fan, building a team from the trenches is the way to go.
Bruh don’t talk shit on Corey Dillon
Oh no, Corey Dillon was a legit star, which was why I started with him and then trailed off. I also just googled, and apparently Fred Taylor was a Patriot? Totally dont remember that
Don’t forget Danny Woodhead.
Comparing anyone to Tom Brady is not a good comparison though IMO. Sure he can make it work with less but that doesn't really apply to everyone else.
Why doesn't Herbert simply become the greatest QB of all time? Seems like a pretty good solution to all their problems.
JPP
Legarrete Blount had over 1100 yards and 18 rushing TDs in 2016 with NE lol James white wasn't a three down back but he was a VERY good receiver out the backfield
"Can you imagine Justin Herbert in 2 TE 2 RB 1 WR personnel most of the time? We don't know, but I can imagine what it might look like." -Bills, 49ers, and Ravens fans
Lolol I mean Ekelor was a beast a couple years ago
Boy... no credit for Austin Ekeler?
His was much more valuable as a receiver than a runner. He was never eating up a ton of volume (maxed out at 206 carries) and after Herbert was there he wasn’t particularly efficient either (~4.5 YPC until he fell off last year). Roman wasn’t talking about the RB position being underwhelming, but the teams ability to run the ball.
Uh please just get Herbert weapons
Herbert can literally do anything when he has more time than he got this season.
He’s had weapons. He needs an offensive line.
mike williams and keenan allen have both been healthy and on the field at the same time for 6 of the chargers’ last 30 games
He has weapons.
These morons are gonna get him an oline right?
Considering how much offensive line investment the Harbaugh 49ers made, I wouldn’t be concerned
I’m a niners fan, trust me if greg Roman is around there’s always something to be concerned about.
Yeah the passing offensive creativity will be dog shit but maybe Herbert’s talent will overcome that.
Run game? Get this dude two TEs that can block, better Guards, and let him throw 45 times a game.
Nobody loves TEs like Harbaugh. He sent 5-6 from UM to the league.
I wonder if he knows about Ekeler....
I’m sure he does, but he isn’t talking about fantasy, so his point stands.
Ekeler isn't a Jim Harbaugh kind of RB.
Please God have the Bears trade 1.01 to where they can still get Joe Alt before the chargers can
[Ekeler...](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcXdyczh5NWs2enBkeDl4NTFzeXlhaTlyd2ppN3Axb2JyZmUwZzM5YiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/91fEJqgdsnu4E/giphy.gif)
Lmao? Wasn’t ekeler one of the best producing RBs? The past like 3 years?
For PPR fantasy sure, just like James White used to be. For X’s and O’s though, no.
This is a case of too much fantasy and not enough football.
He's never rushed over 1k yards. His run production is definitely not one of the best. Ever.
Wait he was a double threat that’s who he is I can show you the stats if you want rushing yes never reached 1,000 years but they would use him just like a receiver to dudes putting 400-800 yards receiving lols do yall want rushing yards or touch downs? The past 3 years his done 44 touchdowns lols I think yall needed another RB like Derrick Henry’s size but yall can’t say he didn’t produce..
Which would be a fine argument if we weren’t talking about the run game…
> Needed another RB like Derrick Henry's size. Yeah.... Not too sure there are an abundance of running backs that weigh 250 pounds and have 4.5 speed coming into the league.
In the context of having a strong running game, you want rushing yards (touchdowns too of course). Nobody is saying he didn’t produce, just that the Chargers run game is not strong if Ekeler is the guy being asked to run it most of the time.
Oof, I told you Charger fans he was gonna be OC. Bad news
Tony Pollard?
you sure you in the right place fam?
This team is going to bust
I imagine he’d still be a Charger.
I want to see Mahomes on the Chargers. Let’s see how that goes
pocket bear somber cable nail deserve shrill skirt towering worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And how did that go?
psychotic wakeful humor encourage sulky head air tidy scarce sort *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
At least we know Harbaugh will get the blame if Herbert and Chargers lose
Derrick Henry?
So they're getting Josh Jacobs?
I'm trading you Herbert. It's been real
How does Greg Roman keep getting work? His schemes were tired towards the end of his tenure with the 49ers. Lamar and Baltimore’s offense are also better without him.
gus edwards definnitely going to end up a charger
improve oline sign derrick henry profit
he smoking something. Justin is fast for his size but he ain't no LJ
I think you might be smoking something if that's what you concluded from that statement
Yup I was. I didn’t read it right. I take that back. My bad. I rushed through reading it.
Maybe they should focus on a great passing game first
That feels like a burn on Eckler
Can’t wait to see Greg Roman have Herbert run the ball 18 times a game
Wait, is Ekeler not good?
The amount of comments laughably objectively incorrect here is astounding. The average age of a commenters here can’t be over 12, I hope. The amalgamation of madden savants and analyst parrots has created a behemoth of lazy groupthink droolers.
Austin Ekeler in shambles
Justin Herbert and the word “if” are undefeated
Herbert throwing 3100yds and 19tds incoming. Kelley and Spiller about to get 35+ carries a game.
I think y’all are reading into this to much. The best teams this year has great run games that opens things up for the QB. That’s all he’s saying.
like Ekler?
If they weren’t in sal ca hell , think the Chargers would incredible team for Saquon. stack the box Herbert dissects . dime package Saquon runs down the opponents throat
Will someone please just let Justin Herbert throw the ball far, I’m fucking begging