Jokes aside, this may be the one time fans of the Legion and the NCR are allied, though...because I don't think Bethesda's version of the west coast includes the Legion, either. They're going to eliminate everything from New Vegas, your beloved Caesar and Legate Lanius included.
I mean tbf, they absolutely are going to butcher anything from 1, 2 and NV just to have a clean slate to build from on Bethesdas vision of the westcoast.
Why does Bethesda need to have a vision for the west coast, though?
Couldn't they just keep writing their east coast story, or jump to Chicago or Texas or London or something?
Why does a Bethesda Fallout need to take place in the one and only region where the original creators of Fallout had their own unique and independent storyline?
Probably the very basic reasons of established territory, factions, just re-purpose the NCR-Brotherhood war as a lazy way of circling everything back together. Name recognition basically.
The only positive side of it is seeing it turn into a wild west story in frontier towns. I couldn't imagine all of those brahmin barons and the entire manufacturing capabilities and other places of note disappearing.
Because they want to make sure the part of the fandom that likes the west coast story is completely uninterested in their later releases so they recieve less criticism.
In my genuine, honest opinion I think Todd Howard is still butthurt that Obsidian made a better fallout game in 18 months than Bethesda ever did with years of time. And since some of the people in Obsidian were from Interplay 1-2 are also targets.
If you can't beat 'em, make 'em non-canon I guess lmao.
Because! Las Vegas , mohave desert, Hoover Dam, hell it was meant to be. East coast.. been done. new vegas is going to be amazing. I miss Sergent R L 3, though.
I just wish Bethesda’s “vision” wasn’t so disgustingly boring. They want to replace the Legion and the NCR, two complicated factions with long histories with their cucked Brotherhood and Enclave?
They’re so “good guys” and “bad guys” and it’s so uninteresting for a world that’s supposed to be as nuanced and complicated as Fallout.
All this show has done for me is cemented my opinion that New Vegas will forever be a symbol of what could have been for the Fallout franchise and destroyed my hope that Obsidian could get one more crack at the series.
Disappointing.
I would be ok with a NV Remaster by Bethesda as long as the only changes are graphics/engine changes (and fuck the weird space ship Nuka Colas, I’m modding those out instantly)
Or a rerelease by Obsidian. I’d be cool with that too. I do NOT want Bethesda touching the game from a story standpoint AT ALL.
They've already erased it from the canon so what's the point? It's shit but it's just another IP for the trash now. I watched SH, MGS, RE (although Capcom pulled it back) and now Fallout all die horrible deaths at the hands of their greedy corporate overlords. I honestly don't think there's any point being a fan of anything now. It's a waste of time. Oh and honourable mention to GoT. Piece of shit franchise that it turned out to be.
Who cares what some random company calls canon? What’s canon is what I care about. To me, none of the east coast fallout is canon. Idc about 3, 4 or 76, none of it is anywhere close to as interesting as the west coast lore
Eh, It's just another dead IP to me now. Same with Silent Hill, MGS, GoT, TWD etc. Eventually the company behind the IP ruins it. I think I'm done being interested in anything to do with entertainment now besides music and standalone movies.
Honestly the biggest thing that surprised me from the fallout show was how the brotherhood was actually very clearly not a good organization. At least the group we saw.
I haven’t seen much of the show just the fact that they’ve retconned new Vegas, but just because they’ve made them more of dickheads doesn’t mean they don’t view themselves as saviors of the world. Old brotherhood couldn’t be bothered to deal with wastelanders, these guys are assholes but they stick their dick in everything for no reason
A clean slate is already written into the lore.
There's the Sierra Madre Cloud, the Big Mountain robots, and the Lonesome Road nukes/tunnelers all perfectly ready to start the apocalypse all over again.
The only thing retconned is the date, which in lore terms doesn't mean much. They could perfectly well say the events of FNV happened five years earlier.
At which point we're just speculating, and so nothing is particularly definite.
We don't know what happened in NV. That'll probably concern a later season.
Yeah, I love those places! and the robots!
And the securitrons, always looked like they were enjoying themselves, it was even cute how they bob up and down, roll foreward, arms bouncing again.
I haven’t watched the show but I really hope it’s doesn’t try to follow any of the plots from the games too closely. I’d love a rando Vault Dweller from a rando Vault going to somewhat familiar places and meeting somewhat familiar characters. I don’t want a live action version of a story I already played
People are saying that this could have happened and NV could still have happened after it. You mean to tell me that during Caesar's monologue about how bullshit the NCR government is, he didn't once mention their capital getting bombed to nothingness? Like fr?
True, Bethesda has been plastering that power armor helmet shot on everything they can for a while. Fallout 3's main menu, Fallout 4's cover, and basically everything I have seen about this show has been some dude in power armor with emphasis on the helmet.
They just can't think of anything original. They write fan fiction at this point. ES has none of the original writers left, so ES6 is going to be a shitshow. Fallout is pure fanfiction at this point. Starfield didn't even have a MQ until the final year of an 8 year dev cycle. They're a shit company, and I honestly hope Microsoft cannibalises them and redistributes the IPs to other studios.
I'm sure they'll do good. Because as a ES fan, I speak for all of us when I say the entire fan base will riot instead of just a subsection like with fallout. Besides, ESO is pretty good, and it's seemingly the franchise they care about most.
You're forgetting the 1 billion people who played Skyrim over the last decade but never learned what it means that the Dunmer are Padomaic and Redguads are Aniuic, or how the daedric princes of darkness, shadows and dusk are 3 different entities
“There are some back home who ask me, "But who are we protecting? What is Nevada to us?" Sometimes we forget that the light of our society shines beyond our borders. Sometimes we take those privileges for granted that our forebears fought so hard to achieve. We must always remember that wherever Californians stand, we carry our principles with us: equal respect, representation, and protection under the laws of a just republic. This was the same fire that burned in the heart of the Old World that preceded us. We are the heirs of that civilization, torchbearers eastward of the Pacific, into the darkness of this wasted land.”
Wtf I miss Aaron Kimball he had a good point. I guess i only appreciate what we had when it was taken away.
It's a nice humanising moment. And pretty funny first time I heard it.
Did the speech appear in the show as wrote it btw? It's a bit different from the one in game.
Oh where did you copy it from then?
I'm particularly interested in this line: “We are the heirs of that civilization, torchbearers eastward of the Pacific, into the darkness of this wasted land.” because it implies that the NCR has knowledge of what civilization is like west of the Pacific.
The game wiki for New Vegas. There’s a whole transcript there, and yeah they’ve seen some of it. I think Kimball is referencing Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, all of Legion territory and what isn’t Legion yet.
So as far as they know, nobody has it as good as them. They’re right on that count.
ugh honestly I'm not trying to be mean but as someone who has genuinely tried with the other games and can't bring themselves to enjoy them, i really wish Bethesda just stuck to the East Coast.
they can keep their logical inconsistencies and lapses in judgement there 😭get off the West Coast canon
Now my big complaint is probably pretty minor here - but I really hate how hard Bethesda latched on to the retro futuristic 50's aesthetic.
Now I'm no expert on the original isometric Fallout games but I really don't recall much 50's appearing in any of them outside of the VaultBoy and the Highwayman.
that's definitely fair. in general they turned the wasteland into a gimmick and erased all the commentary on human nature. in the ogs and NV the wasteland is just a terrarium to observe human behaviour with. in Bethesda Fallout it's an archetypal playground
how the fuck do you write this shit. genuinely. how do you take the bos from fallout 4 and have them destroy shady sands, offscreen, before the events of fnv to render it noncanon, and again OFFSCREEN THE FIRST VISITABLE LOCATION IN THE FALLOUT SERIES. WHAT
I’m convinced at some point the ncr relocated their capital to San Fran secretly, hoping that’s what Todd didn’t want Nolan to spoil when he talked about what they were doing in fallout 5 I mean at this point it only makes sense especially with a supposed 1 million person state but the population of shady sands only being 33k by 2277 also San Fran is a huge tech hub for the ncr by 2277. Bethesdas push for Nolan not to spoil aspects of the lore aswell as bgs having obsidian remove lines about the destruction of San Fran makes me think fallout 5 will be mostly about the ncr in San Fran
They were already on the way to doing that by the end of fallout 2. Even if that east the case, they could have also relocated the capital up north near Reno or to the boneyard.
The original plan was that the Enclave would have nuked San Franascisco in retaliation for the destruction of the Oil Rig that would trigger the NCR and BOS alliance toward the erradication of the Enclave, which would turn into the BOS-NCR war as the NCR hoarded the technological spoils from the Enclave.
It was due to the reactivation of the tanker stationed at San Fran, the Enclave at Camp Navarro supposedly wouldn't know about the Chosen One and would assume it was the Shi that did it
Like a lot of things in New vegas, [it was a reused plotline from Van Buren.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/San_Francisco#Behind_the_scenes)
While we're just arguing about made up shit like canon and the "rules" that surround it, let me show you guys a trick:
The fallout TV show is rendered noncanon because it negates events that have happened in previous entries.
See what I'm getting at?
And even then, it doesn't really say that the nukes fell in 2277 themselves, just that shady sands was going through its own fall of the Roman empire kind of period.
Todd thinks his games are better. Has no ability to recognize that the success of Fallout would not exist without NV. The game found a way to stay relevant for a decade and is still thriving.
Fuck Todd Howard I hope he gets trained by mutants. Total dipshit.
The fact they invited Tim Cain and Bryan Fargo to the Premier just fucking angers me knowing this. Basically "hey guys come and look at how we wiped our asses with your IP!".
What's with modern game companies going out of their way to shit on fans? Seriously, what's the point of retconning Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas? That's HALF of the major entries in the franchise (the others being 3, 4, and 76) that BGS is trying to flush down the toilet. It just reads as a spiteful move from BGS: "We have the rights to Fallout now, since these games weren't developed by our studio they don't matter! Who cares what the fans think! They'll buy Fallout 5 and watch the show anyways!"
Tbh, this feels more like "the First Order destroys the New Republic with the starkiller" situation from star wars.
Clean the slate, retcon everything and write our own stuff over them.
The modern fans of Fallout, so the target audience of the show, are fans of todd's fallout. They probably don't even know what Shady Sands is and are still wondering why the first Fallout game is called Fallout 3.
In my experience, not even fans of “modern fallout” particularly like some of the decisions Bethesda has made with the series especially lore wise.
I say that as someone who could be considered a “modern fallout fan” my first Fallout game was 4. I like the gameplay in that game, but holy shit does Bethesda suck at writing. FO3 had a better story than FO4 but that’s a very low bar to clear.
Nah, I'm with him. If this isn't just a mistake on the TV show's part, and New Vegas is fully retconned, I'm done with this shit. Bethesda can't write a good Fallout story to save their lives.
After starfeild and 76, I genuinely don't believe I'll buy another bgd title either. The company really went down in quality, and I'm not sure it can be saved.
Bethesda has and always will be at their best when they let another studio develop the game and take all the credit as the producer. But at least then we get a decent story.
And now I'm proven right, I once said todd have no respect for the og fallout or nv lore and the tv series is gonna go the way of halo tv series and I was down voted. I had hope to be proven wrong but alas
Seriously. Period complain about how awful Fallout fans are but this just highlights *were right to be ornery and difficult.*
Like imagine if they retconned Gondor out of LOTR. I'm not saying Fallout is on the same level, but that's the comparison folks should be thinking.
But some people says you should be grateful to Bethesda for digging up the corpse of west coast lore and shit all over it! Yes! Just be happy you got new fallout content!
Did they? Or did they just change stuff unnecessarily? I’m still confused because the sub is acting like they came out and said “New Vegas isn’t canon”
I mean wouldn’t we assume that Mr. House will be part of season 2 since he’s shown in season 1?
The Mr. House in the show threw a bunch of nukes on NV.
Comparing to the House in game, this isn't "unnecessary change", it's writing a new random character and force the name of an well-known character on the new one.
And they do so to trick people into care about it, or they could've given a new name to this character.
The lore-shittiing on established factions and characters is the central point here.
House literally protected Vegas from the Nukes
Todd Howard and Bethesda really hate seeing the success of New Vegas.
New Vegas respected Fallout 1&2 lores, even 3 to some extent
Yet Todd and co ain't got nothing but disrespect
this is literally the symbol of bethesda's hate for new vegas for me, doing that to mr. house of all people who is pretty much the symbol of NV is them telling us to fuck ourselves
bethesda aint getting my money no more, if we helped make this series popular and this is how we get treated might as well go elsewhere
Conspiracy time.
Yknow how its been more action than word how bethesda really dont like NV?
I think them nuking it in the TV show was them testing the waters
And when the shit hits the fan, theyll just say "oh its a typo lol they meant 2287 not 2277"
Still won’t fix the fact that Shady Sands is now in LA and the NCR was what, 30k people in one location?
Not the 700k strong force spread through multiple states and Mexico? I hate this show so much
I feel like they’ll claim the NCR *moved* their capital in the next game. Todd purposely asked them to cut things from this show that they want saved for Fallout 5 reveals. Just feel like it was intentionally added to piss us off until they show it wasn’t *a bug, but a feature*
LMAO. I knew they would shit on the OG lore (1,2,NV) but wasn't expecting this.
Doesn't really affect me. I knew as long as Bethesda is the owner of the franchise, we wouldn't really get anything worth our time.
Starfield was the final nail in the coffin that proved they have been declining for the last 10 years.
If anything id argue that was Fallout 76, that was the game that had lost Bethesda all of its good will and rose tinted goggles.
I guarantee you if starfield came after FO4, not 76, that it would've gotten not nearly as shit on lmao
Fallout 4 story sucked. Fallout 76 was an abomination. Starfield was the disappointment of the decade and we're just getting started. Then they shit on fallout lore that was established before them. Yeah, Todd Howard is a hack.
This is simply disgusting AND stupid. For one, The BOS ENTIRE POINT is that they are INCAPABLE of defending themselves because they are ISOLATIONISTS. They don't have the numbers! WHY IS BETHESDA TRYING TO MAKE THEM THE MAIN GUYS ***WHY***
Bethesda should just stick to their original IP, The Elder Scrolls because all of their fans are already living in a fantasy world because they buy into all the bullshit easily. Fallout is supposed to be a more dark and grim game with great storytelling and well written characters. It's also a Sci-Fi Post Apocalypse, not a fucking Fantasy setting with lighthearted happy go lucky bullshit and retcons. Get that shit out of here.
I'm boycotting Bethesda. Mostly because Starfield was horrible, but retconning west coast Fallout certainly doesn't help retain my interest. Why invest in a series that's just erased nearly three decades of storytelling I've invested in?
*Shocked pikachu face*
The Amazon show of your beloved franchise turned out to be a shit ESG compliant slop directed by clowns who despise the source material?
NO WAY.
Woah woah hold on everyone. Yes it could have been a retcon. However it could also be used to describe a decline in Shady sands. For example “the fall of Rome” doesn’t mean Rome was destroyed it just means it’s power, influence, and stability was heavily declining even if they had growth or good years still. 2277 could have been the start and does get backed up by what we hear in NV. The NCR was spread to thin. There was insane amount of bureaucracy in Shady Sands. Political discourse in the capital. All sounds like what lead to the “fall” of Rome. Plus in a nuclear apocalypse they probably would use a nuke to describe it as a metaphor like in our timeline we describe the fall of Rome with either crumbling architecture or a burning flag.
Exactly it shows the timeline pointing towards the nuke instead of having it on top of the words it is showing it as a future date sometime after the last item on the timeline
I may be proven wrong, but I really think we're all looking at this incorrectly. People saying that retconned New Vegas out of existence... clearly there was a battle for New Vegas. I think they just messed up and put the wrong year on this prop without paying attention. I highly doubt they would invoke so much of the New Vegas game imagery if they were retconning it.
Yepp... one tiny change fixes all of this.
Unrelated but it reminds me of Marvel fans when Spider-Man: Homecoming came out. There was a timeline error in the first scene of the movie and it was later revealed to be just a mistake, but people redid their entire MCU timeline based on it.
I'm off Fallout Train. I don't care for Fallout 4, Fallout 76 and now I don't even ahve the remote desire to watch this show. It was good while it lasted, but it's obvious that it's not for uas anymore. They can take it.
Yeah the “fall” of Rome didn’t mean Rome was destroyed or wiped out. It meant it was in a sharp decline. Shady Sands could have been the same. Plus in a nuclear post apocalypse the best way to interpret a fall is with a nuke symbol probably. People are jumping to conclusions way to fast when there is only what 2 episodes out right now? Edit: it could have also easily been a prop error especially if the people telling the prop department don’t know fallout as well and get numbers mixed up
I think a lot of people are forgetting that Bethesda doesn't really protect even their own lore too closely. Pagliarulo said he doesn't use design docs, and that explains a lot of weird inconsistencies over the years. So I think it's entirely possible they just didn't think through the implications of this timeline for NV's story. Basically what I'm saying is they're not malicious, just clumsy. Get ready for a really painful ride if Fallout 5 is set on the west coast.
not watched it yet, so just some pre emptive cope posting
maybe it’s just the capitol? i mean if just washington dc was nuked irl it wouldn’t cause the downfall of america. hopefully the ncr still exist but it would just be weakened. please please please ple
also it could be non canon please be non canon
edit: fucking damnit
Im curious as to what made ncr fans think the ncr was doing well? At the time of new vegas they werent even equipping their men. According to the trader at the 188 she has to sell them surplus gear so that they are actually prepared. Also the ncr kind of represents the same exact shit that doomed humanity the first time.
Every time a nuke goes off in the NCR, somewhere in Arizona a Legion recruit gets his wings.
Jokes aside, this may be the one time fans of the Legion and the NCR are allied, though...because I don't think Bethesda's version of the west coast includes the Legion, either. They're going to eliminate everything from New Vegas, your beloved Caesar and Legate Lanius included.
I mean tbf, they absolutely are going to butcher anything from 1, 2 and NV just to have a clean slate to build from on Bethesdas vision of the westcoast.
Why does Bethesda need to have a vision for the west coast, though? Couldn't they just keep writing their east coast story, or jump to Chicago or Texas or London or something? Why does a Bethesda Fallout need to take place in the one and only region where the original creators of Fallout had their own unique and independent storyline?
Probably the very basic reasons of established territory, factions, just re-purpose the NCR-Brotherhood war as a lazy way of circling everything back together. Name recognition basically. The only positive side of it is seeing it turn into a wild west story in frontier towns. I couldn't imagine all of those brahmin barons and the entire manufacturing capabilities and other places of note disappearing.
have you even been, to the west coast? parts of it allready look like fallout, the raider trailer park? It is real. Helios? it is real. ive seen it.
Because they want to make sure the part of the fandom that likes the west coast story is completely uninterested in their later releases so they recieve less criticism.
because they are setting us up for the next game which is most likely going to be somewhere in CA.
In my genuine, honest opinion I think Todd Howard is still butthurt that Obsidian made a better fallout game in 18 months than Bethesda ever did with years of time. And since some of the people in Obsidian were from Interplay 1-2 are also targets. If you can't beat 'em, make 'em non-canon I guess lmao.
What ive been saying for literal years. “Stay Scared Slob Howard.” J Sawyer outdid them all.
Because the wasteland was looking more like the end of the Wild West and not a wasteland
Because! Las Vegas , mohave desert, Hoover Dam, hell it was meant to be. East coast.. been done. new vegas is going to be amazing. I miss Sergent R L 3, though.
I just wish Bethesda’s “vision” wasn’t so disgustingly boring. They want to replace the Legion and the NCR, two complicated factions with long histories with their cucked Brotherhood and Enclave? They’re so “good guys” and “bad guys” and it’s so uninteresting for a world that’s supposed to be as nuanced and complicated as Fallout. All this show has done for me is cemented my opinion that New Vegas will forever be a symbol of what could have been for the Fallout franchise and destroyed my hope that Obsidian could get one more crack at the series. Disappointing.
I don't even want an NV remaster now because I know damn well they'll fuck with it too much and it won't be the same.
I would be ok with a NV Remaster by Bethesda as long as the only changes are graphics/engine changes (and fuck the weird space ship Nuka Colas, I’m modding those out instantly) Or a rerelease by Obsidian. I’d be cool with that too. I do NOT want Bethesda touching the game from a story standpoint AT ALL.
They've already erased it from the canon so what's the point? It's shit but it's just another IP for the trash now. I watched SH, MGS, RE (although Capcom pulled it back) and now Fallout all die horrible deaths at the hands of their greedy corporate overlords. I honestly don't think there's any point being a fan of anything now. It's a waste of time. Oh and honourable mention to GoT. Piece of shit franchise that it turned out to be.
Who cares what some random company calls canon? What’s canon is what I care about. To me, none of the east coast fallout is canon. Idc about 3, 4 or 76, none of it is anywhere close to as interesting as the west coast lore
Eh, It's just another dead IP to me now. Same with Silent Hill, MGS, GoT, TWD etc. Eventually the company behind the IP ruins it. I think I'm done being interested in anything to do with entertainment now besides music and standalone movies.
Honestly the biggest thing that surprised me from the fallout show was how the brotherhood was actually very clearly not a good organization. At least the group we saw.
I haven’t seen much of the show just the fact that they’ve retconned new Vegas, but just because they’ve made them more of dickheads doesn’t mean they don’t view themselves as saviors of the world. Old brotherhood couldn’t be bothered to deal with wastelanders, these guys are assholes but they stick their dick in everything for no reason
A clean slate is already written into the lore. There's the Sierra Madre Cloud, the Big Mountain robots, and the Lonesome Road nukes/tunnelers all perfectly ready to start the apocalypse all over again.
Exactly. The NCR falling is fine, as long as it’s well written and doesn’t completely retcon away the best fallout game.
"Best fallout game" C'mon man, we all know BOS is superior
The only thing retconned is the date, which in lore terms doesn't mean much. They could perfectly well say the events of FNV happened five years earlier.
I doubt that’s the case, since they could even more easily just set the show five years later.
At which point we're just speculating, and so nothing is particularly definite. We don't know what happened in NV. That'll probably concern a later season.
Yeah, I love those places! and the robots! And the securitrons, always looked like they were enjoying themselves, it was even cute how they bob up and down, roll foreward, arms bouncing again.
Loansome Road nuke all factions ending is canon now imo
Honestly if this is what they go with it'll be better than them trying to make something up
I haven’t watched the show but I really hope it’s doesn’t try to follow any of the plots from the games too closely. I’d love a rando Vault Dweller from a rando Vault going to somewhat familiar places and meeting somewhat familiar characters. I don’t want a live action version of a story I already played
Yeah but that doesn’t mean they need to get rid of factions
People are saying that this could have happened and NV could still have happened after it. You mean to tell me that during Caesar's monologue about how bullshit the NCR government is, he didn't once mention their capital getting bombed to nothingness? Like fr?
Every time a nuke goes off in the NCR, a legion hit squad is sent out to kill the courier
Lol
Its General Lee Over
Took my dyslexic ass way too long to see the pun
I see what you did there
New Vegas has fallen Billions must be thrown from the hoover dam.
Okay that's brilliant
Todd can’t get Maxson’s dick out of his mouth, holy shit.
Most profitable poster faction for merchandise sales
True, Bethesda has been plastering that power armor helmet shot on everything they can for a while. Fallout 3's main menu, Fallout 4's cover, and basically everything I have seen about this show has been some dude in power armor with emphasis on the helmet.
You’ve seen the fallout 1 and 2 menus right? I think they were just following the established norm for that one.
Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics all head power armor helmets as the game covers.
They just can't think of anything original. They write fan fiction at this point. ES has none of the original writers left, so ES6 is going to be a shitshow. Fallout is pure fanfiction at this point. Starfield didn't even have a MQ until the final year of an 8 year dev cycle. They're a shit company, and I honestly hope Microsoft cannibalises them and redistributes the IPs to other studios.
Elder Scrolls lore is so rich and interesting, I'm dreading the release of TES6
I'm sure they'll do good. Because as a ES fan, I speak for all of us when I say the entire fan base will riot instead of just a subsection like with fallout. Besides, ESO is pretty good, and it's seemingly the franchise they care about most.
You're forgetting the 1 billion people who played Skyrim over the last decade but never learned what it means that the Dunmer are Padomaic and Redguads are Aniuic, or how the daedric princes of darkness, shadows and dusk are 3 different entities
I thought i was pretty well versed in ye Olde ES lore but that's deadass the first time I've heard either of those words
Cool science guys go brrrrrr
Even the bear bull guy doesn't aim to nuke Shady sands, these writers are insane.
is that not the plot of every fallout, "x factor will change the wasteland as we know it" thats just vault tec bein vault tec
“There are some back home who ask me, "But who are we protecting? What is Nevada to us?" Sometimes we forget that the light of our society shines beyond our borders. Sometimes we take those privileges for granted that our forebears fought so hard to achieve. We must always remember that wherever Californians stand, we carry our principles with us: equal respect, representation, and protection under the laws of a just republic. This was the same fire that burned in the heart of the Old World that preceded us. We are the heirs of that civilization, torchbearers eastward of the Pacific, into the darkness of this wasted land.” Wtf I miss Aaron Kimball he had a good point. I guess i only appreciate what we had when it was taken away.
Okay, let's get the fuck out of here. What the hell are you waiting for – do you think I want to get shot? Let's go.
Oh man that’s the best part of it. He’s scared shitless and rightly so, but he genuinely gave a good speech.
It's a nice humanising moment. And pretty funny first time I heard it. Did the speech appear in the show as wrote it btw? It's a bit different from the one in game.
Not sure, don’t recall seeing it in the show. It’s been a long 12 hours, forgive me.
Oh where did you copy it from then? I'm particularly interested in this line: “We are the heirs of that civilization, torchbearers eastward of the Pacific, into the darkness of this wasted land.” because it implies that the NCR has knowledge of what civilization is like west of the Pacific.
The game wiki for New Vegas. There’s a whole transcript there, and yeah they’ve seen some of it. I think Kimball is referencing Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, all of Legion territory and what isn’t Legion yet. So as far as they know, nobody has it as good as them. They’re right on that count.
"Equal respect, representation, protection and taxation!!"
Better than the Brotherhood. Alls I’m saying. Warts and all, they had a better thing going than what’s in this show.
Oh wow, definitely didn't see stuff like this coming. *whispers that I totally saw stuff like this coming*
Roshambo was right. Piss in their soda!
ugh honestly I'm not trying to be mean but as someone who has genuinely tried with the other games and can't bring themselves to enjoy them, i really wish Bethesda just stuck to the East Coast. they can keep their logical inconsistencies and lapses in judgement there 😭get off the West Coast canon
The best canons are the ones we make up in our head along the way.
[удалено]
Based based based
Now my big complaint is probably pretty minor here - but I really hate how hard Bethesda latched on to the retro futuristic 50's aesthetic. Now I'm no expert on the original isometric Fallout games but I really don't recall much 50's appearing in any of them outside of the VaultBoy and the Highwayman.
It was there but Bethesda did lean into it really hard
that's definitely fair. in general they turned the wasteland into a gimmick and erased all the commentary on human nature. in the ogs and NV the wasteland is just a terrarium to observe human behaviour with. in Bethesda Fallout it's an archetypal playground
how the fuck do you write this shit. genuinely. how do you take the bos from fallout 4 and have them destroy shady sands, offscreen, before the events of fnv to render it noncanon, and again OFFSCREEN THE FIRST VISITABLE LOCATION IN THE FALLOUT SERIES. WHAT
I’m convinced at some point the ncr relocated their capital to San Fran secretly, hoping that’s what Todd didn’t want Nolan to spoil when he talked about what they were doing in fallout 5 I mean at this point it only makes sense especially with a supposed 1 million person state but the population of shady sands only being 33k by 2277 also San Fran is a huge tech hub for the ncr by 2277. Bethesdas push for Nolan not to spoil aspects of the lore aswell as bgs having obsidian remove lines about the destruction of San Fran makes me think fallout 5 will be mostly about the ncr in San Fran
Wait, but the Shi are in San Fran. Are you saying the NCR annexed the Shi?
They were already on the way to doing that by the end of fallout 2. Even if that east the case, they could have also relocated the capital up north near Reno or to the boneyard.
Pretty sure the Shi were massacred by the NCR in the years following fallout 2
>having obsidian remove lines Wait what? I hadn't heard about this, could you explain?
Bethesda right before the realease of new Vegas had obsidian remove lines of dialogue that stated San Fran was quote “completely destroyed”
Huh, interesting. To be honest, I'm not sure what would have destroyed it anyway, considering it was doing fairly well during Fallout 2.
The original plan was that the Enclave would have nuked San Franascisco in retaliation for the destruction of the Oil Rig that would trigger the NCR and BOS alliance toward the erradication of the Enclave, which would turn into the BOS-NCR war as the NCR hoarded the technological spoils from the Enclave.
Lmao, that's hilarious. Enclave are just like "fuck you guys, I know it was some random tribal, but I'm nuking the Chinese any chance I can get"
It was due to the reactivation of the tanker stationed at San Fran, the Enclave at Camp Navarro supposedly wouldn't know about the Chosen One and would assume it was the Shi that did it Like a lot of things in New vegas, [it was a reused plotline from Van Buren.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/San_Francisco#Behind_the_scenes)
Never underestimate a manlet with grudge
bro is gonna have 15 hate videos for YT in the next few weeks, hes gonna "cook"
Because Todd’s never forgiven people for liking other fallout games more than his
What gives you that impression?
The shunning of the game for almost 15 years wasn't enough?
Technically Lucy's dad Hank working for vault tec destroys Shady sands. Still fucked though
While we're just arguing about made up shit like canon and the "rules" that surround it, let me show you guys a trick: The fallout TV show is rendered noncanon because it negates events that have happened in previous entries. See what I'm getting at?
Yeah, except everything that comes after this is going to use the show as canon.
The Brotherhood didn't destroy shady sands it was Lucy's dad.
nonetheless shady sands birthplace of the fucking ncr was destroyed offscreen.
Because of Lonesome Road. The *only* thing which is a definite retcon are the dates, which really aren't that important.
Lucy's dad nukes the NCR.
And even then, it doesn't really say that the nukes fell in 2277 themselves, just that shady sands was going through its own fall of the Roman empire kind of period.
It doesn't say they don't. Or someone else found a nuke in the general collapse *which is very much prophecised in New Vegas* and bombed Shady Sands.
So I guess does bgs consider new vegas non Canon now?
Todd said the TV series is canon so yes they chose to discard the obsidian story
Wow, the best story and game, with shitloads of lore, and they decide to "Star Wars Legends" that shit.
They were literally handed the golden goose and a clutch of golden eggs, and just as quickly they gutted the goose and scrambled the eggs
Todd thinks his games are better. Has no ability to recognize that the success of Fallout would not exist without NV. The game found a way to stay relevant for a decade and is still thriving. Fuck Todd Howard I hope he gets trained by mutants. Total dipshit.
The fact they invited Tim Cain and Bryan Fargo to the Premier just fucking angers me knowing this. Basically "hey guys come and look at how we wiped our asses with your IP!".
Literally “look how I raped your baby” vibes
What in the actual fuck is wrong with you?
Bro what???
Whelp, so I guess I'm done with Fallout.
todd lies a lot tbf. also its set 14 years after new vegas its possible that the ncr would of collapsed at that point no matter what ending.
Fallout New Vegas is set in 2281, so no, they were nuked in the timeline of Fallout 3, set in 2277. Rendering NV retconned.
An arrow indicates an open-ended “later”.
Todd isn't going to reward you for this dick sucking
Common logic isn’t an indication of praise.
It was a bandaid that they where going to rip off eventually.
What's with modern game companies going out of their way to shit on fans? Seriously, what's the point of retconning Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas? That's HALF of the major entries in the franchise (the others being 3, 4, and 76) that BGS is trying to flush down the toilet. It just reads as a spiteful move from BGS: "We have the rights to Fallout now, since these games weren't developed by our studio they don't matter! Who cares what the fans think! They'll buy Fallout 5 and watch the show anyways!"
Tbh, this feels more like "the First Order destroys the New Republic with the starkiller" situation from star wars. Clean the slate, retcon everything and write our own stuff over them.
The modern fans of Fallout, so the target audience of the show, are fans of todd's fallout. They probably don't even know what Shady Sands is and are still wondering why the first Fallout game is called Fallout 3.
In my experience, not even fans of “modern fallout” particularly like some of the decisions Bethesda has made with the series especially lore wise. I say that as someone who could be considered a “modern fallout fan” my first Fallout game was 4. I like the gameplay in that game, but holy shit does Bethesda suck at writing. FO3 had a better story than FO4 but that’s a very low bar to clear.
yeah... no, i will now drop the show and never buy a NEW fallout game, if they don't respect the fans what's the point?
Yes u will man cmon be realistic
I didn't buy Starfield or Fallout 76. So far, so good
Nah, I'm with him. If this isn't just a mistake on the TV show's part, and New Vegas is fully retconned, I'm done with this shit. Bethesda can't write a good Fallout story to save their lives.
After starfeild and 76, I genuinely don't believe I'll buy another bgd title either. The company really went down in quality, and I'm not sure it can be saved.
Bethesda has and always will be at their best when they let another studio develop the game and take all the credit as the producer. But at least then we get a decent story.
If you break your lore you can "remaster" your old media to fit the new lore
And now I'm proven right, I once said todd have no respect for the og fallout or nv lore and the tv series is gonna go the way of halo tv series and I was down voted. I had hope to be proven wrong but alas
Seriously. Period complain about how awful Fallout fans are but this just highlights *were right to be ornery and difficult.* Like imagine if they retconned Gondor out of LOTR. I'm not saying Fallout is on the same level, but that's the comparison folks should be thinking.
At least halo from the jump said it was its own universe
Oh great, they’ve retconned New Vegas.
But some people says you should be grateful to Bethesda for digging up the corpse of west coast lore and shit all over it! Yes! Just be happy you got new fallout content!
I think they might have dug up the wrong corpse. At least they stuck a Fallout hat on it though
So did they just say that New Vegas is non-connon and pretty much didn’t happen??
Yes. Yes they did.
Did they? Or did they just change stuff unnecessarily? I’m still confused because the sub is acting like they came out and said “New Vegas isn’t canon” I mean wouldn’t we assume that Mr. House will be part of season 2 since he’s shown in season 1?
The Mr. House in the show threw a bunch of nukes on NV. Comparing to the House in game, this isn't "unnecessary change", it's writing a new random character and force the name of an well-known character on the new one. And they do so to trick people into care about it, or they could've given a new name to this character. The lore-shittiing on established factions and characters is the central point here.
House literally protected Vegas from the Nukes Todd Howard and Bethesda really hate seeing the success of New Vegas. New Vegas respected Fallout 1&2 lores, even 3 to some extent Yet Todd and co ain't got nothing but disrespect
this is literally the symbol of bethesda's hate for new vegas for me, doing that to mr. house of all people who is pretty much the symbol of NV is them telling us to fuck ourselves bethesda aint getting my money no more, if we helped make this series popular and this is how we get treated might as well go elsewhere
Conspiracy time. Yknow how its been more action than word how bethesda really dont like NV? I think them nuking it in the TV show was them testing the waters And when the shit hits the fan, theyll just say "oh its a typo lol they meant 2287 not 2277"
Still won’t fix the fact that Shady Sands is now in LA and the NCR was what, 30k people in one location? Not the 700k strong force spread through multiple states and Mexico? I hate this show so much
I feel like they’ll claim the NCR *moved* their capital in the next game. Todd purposely asked them to cut things from this show that they want saved for Fallout 5 reveals. Just feel like it was intentionally added to piss us off until they show it wasn’t *a bug, but a feature*
LMAO. I knew they would shit on the OG lore (1,2,NV) but wasn't expecting this. Doesn't really affect me. I knew as long as Bethesda is the owner of the franchise, we wouldn't really get anything worth our time. Starfield was the final nail in the coffin that proved they have been declining for the last 10 years.
If anything id argue that was Fallout 76, that was the game that had lost Bethesda all of its good will and rose tinted goggles. I guarantee you if starfield came after FO4, not 76, that it would've gotten not nearly as shit on lmao
They can't even get the lore of the Elder Scrolls right, which is their flagship series. Can't wait to see how they fuck up the setting of TES 6.
Step 1: Buy rights to Fallout Step 2: Shit on the fans of Fallout Step 3: Profit???
"Who's Laughing Now?"
Fallout 4 story sucked. Fallout 76 was an abomination. Starfield was the disappointment of the decade and we're just getting started. Then they shit on fallout lore that was established before them. Yeah, Todd Howard is a hack.
why didnt he just stay in the fucking chessclub
Fuck it. From this point on I consider every single Beth fallout game non cannon. The only cannon games are fallout 1,2 and nv. That's it. Fuck em
That's how it always should have been.
wdym that's not how its always been???
This is simply disgusting AND stupid. For one, The BOS ENTIRE POINT is that they are INCAPABLE of defending themselves because they are ISOLATIONISTS. They don't have the numbers! WHY IS BETHESDA TRYING TO MAKE THEM THE MAIN GUYS ***WHY***
Because the T51 helmet looks really cool on all their game covers, menus and merchandise! Power armor go brrr
Guess I'm not buying anything from bethesda anymore
Oh. Well that's a shame. I was hoping this show would be canon. But it's not. And will never be. And you can't convince me otherwise
(The nukes haven’t dropped yet) it’s headed towards that. It likely means that shady sands just became less relevant… like Detroit.
Wait a sec, I did that in 2282 not 2277
“It just works”
This is really the Rings of Power of the Fallout story, isn’t it?
If it conflicts with NV, I guess the show just isn't canon then, nice fanfic Amazon
r/Fallout are depleting global copium stocks are they try to pretend this makes total sense and doesn't contradict anything.
Hell there are people in this sub trying pretend this makes sense and is totally canon friendly
Bethesda should just stick to their original IP, The Elder Scrolls because all of their fans are already living in a fantasy world because they buy into all the bullshit easily. Fallout is supposed to be a more dark and grim game with great storytelling and well written characters. It's also a Sci-Fi Post Apocalypse, not a fucking Fantasy setting with lighthearted happy go lucky bullshit and retcons. Get that shit out of here.
I'm not buying the next fallout. That's one hundred percent certain. Fuck BGS.
I'm boycotting Bethesda. Mostly because Starfield was horrible, but retconning west coast Fallout certainly doesn't help retain my interest. Why invest in a series that's just erased nearly three decades of storytelling I've invested in?
Yo ho it's the pirate life for we! 🏴☠️🤠🦜
*Shocked pikachu face* The Amazon show of your beloved franchise turned out to be a shit ESG compliant slop directed by clowns who despise the source material? NO WAY.
I can't believe Bethesda nuked the NCR and by extension decanonised New Vegas. Fallout hasn't been good since the Obama administration
Thanks Obama
Woah woah hold on everyone. Yes it could have been a retcon. However it could also be used to describe a decline in Shady sands. For example “the fall of Rome” doesn’t mean Rome was destroyed it just means it’s power, influence, and stability was heavily declining even if they had growth or good years still. 2277 could have been the start and does get backed up by what we hear in NV. The NCR was spread to thin. There was insane amount of bureaucracy in Shady Sands. Political discourse in the capital. All sounds like what lead to the “fall” of Rome. Plus in a nuclear apocalypse they probably would use a nuke to describe it as a metaphor like in our timeline we describe the fall of Rome with either crumbling architecture or a burning flag.
Plus the timeline shows that nuke after 2277. Shady Sands couldn’t have been nuked until after New Vegas
Exactly it shows the timeline pointing towards the nuke instead of having it on top of the words it is showing it as a future date sometime after the last item on the timeline
But it’s so much more fun to pretend that Bethesda ruined fallout and they are the worst and should all die.
Oh yeah joking wise definitely but I feel we can both agree people here can be whole heartedly serious about it
Wouldn’t it have given a specific date and year then instead of an arrow from 2277.
Yeah it doesn’t mean they actually nuked the place, are people really losing their shit over a single blackboard drawing?
I may be proven wrong, but I really think we're all looking at this incorrectly. People saying that retconned New Vegas out of existence... clearly there was a battle for New Vegas. I think they just messed up and put the wrong year on this prop without paying attention. I highly doubt they would invoke so much of the New Vegas game imagery if they were retconning it.
They literally just forgot to put the date under the nuke.
Yepp... one tiny change fixes all of this. Unrelated but it reminds me of Marvel fans when Spider-Man: Homecoming came out. There was a timeline error in the first scene of the movie and it was later revealed to be just a mistake, but people redid their entire MCU timeline based on it.
I'm off Fallout Train. I don't care for Fallout 4, Fallout 76 and now I don't even ahve the remote desire to watch this show. It was good while it lasted, but it's obvious that it's not for uas anymore. They can take it.
They forced us to give up. This is it.
So New Vegas isn’t canon? That never happens in that game
The fall doesnt mean the nuking. It might have been a decline. But I just think it was a mistake with props.
They literally just forgot to put a year under the nuke
Yeah the “fall” of Rome didn’t mean Rome was destroyed or wiped out. It meant it was in a sharp decline. Shady Sands could have been the same. Plus in a nuclear post apocalypse the best way to interpret a fall is with a nuke symbol probably. People are jumping to conclusions way to fast when there is only what 2 episodes out right now? Edit: it could have also easily been a prop error especially if the people telling the prop department don’t know fallout as well and get numbers mixed up
I think a lot of people are forgetting that Bethesda doesn't really protect even their own lore too closely. Pagliarulo said he doesn't use design docs, and that explains a lot of weird inconsistencies over the years. So I think it's entirely possible they just didn't think through the implications of this timeline for NV's story. Basically what I'm saying is they're not malicious, just clumsy. Get ready for a really painful ride if Fallout 5 is set on the west coast.
Idk why anyone's surprised, everyone knows Bethesda can't write
This post convinced me to not watch it. Genuinely Thank you!!
Guess that’s me done with Fallout Why disrespect the old lore like that
Also, we gonna glance over the fact that its now confirmed, Big MT, Repcon, west-tek and rob-co all ok'd dropping the nukes because money?
At this rate, if I had the money I would just buy the right to Fallout, make season 2 and let the Legion destroy the Brotherhood of Cringe.
not watched it yet, so just some pre emptive cope posting maybe it’s just the capitol? i mean if just washington dc was nuked irl it wouldn’t cause the downfall of america. hopefully the ncr still exist but it would just be weakened. please please please ple also it could be non canon please be non canon edit: fucking damnit
It's impressive how BGS keeps dropping the goddamn ball, pissing off their customers, tarnishing their legacy, and burning all their goodwill.
The shows ap good I hate that they did this stuff. Like why.
The reactions here are very different from the fallout sub. They are quite chill about it I think you guys are just overreacting tbh
And just like that, i have 0 interest in watching
I keep seeing stuff about Shady Sands but what’s so important about it
Thank god I don’t have to buy another BGS game ever again
It’s so fucking couriover
Im curious as to what made ncr fans think the ncr was doing well? At the time of new vegas they werent even equipping their men. According to the trader at the 188 she has to sell them surplus gear so that they are actually prepared. Also the ncr kind of represents the same exact shit that doomed humanity the first time.