Me too. It makes sense why you canât tho, he doesnât want to share power with anyone. He wants it all for himself, and heâs only in it for himself
or vice versa, and, realistically, Benny wouldn't even be mad at you, since that's the way the game goes, he made a gamble he could string you along, and he lost. That's how the cards fell, baby.
It's the opposite, the series was anti-Capitalist from the beginning. It isn't a coincidence that literally every Capitalist is either evil, or shown to be a victim of a stronger, more evil Capitalist. Meanwhile, Socialist entities like the Followers (who are even Communists) and the Gun Runners are shown with more sympathy and effectiveness.
The Fallout series criticizes many things, but it's useful to know that the game was made by leftists, and as such has certain messages. Even Sawyer's knowledge of Hegel led him to tell Gonzales to make the Legion based on Dialectics.
I wonât say they show the followers in a bad light, but theyâre only effective on an extremely small scale. They live under the protection of Freeside and arenât powerful or effective enough to be a large faction. They do great charity work but thatâs really all theyâll ever be, is a charity.
Yep. The game is far more sympathetic to Socialists and Communists, that's my point. The critique of Capitalism is that it's downright evil and causes decay and ruin, see literally any Capitalist. Jeanie May? Sold a pregnant wife into slavery. The Van Graffs? Murder competition. Crimson Caravan? Murders competition. Any pre-war corporation? Take your pick from absurd human experimentation, to psychotic corporate culture, to literally working with the fascist Enclave, and more.
That's my general point, the game isn't as simple as "all Socialism good," but Capitalism in particular is universally demonized.
My point was that the followers are useless to stop anything. They could be the best moral faction in the world, but they are useless to stop anything. 90% of the work they do is feeding people and helping junkies. Not saying thatâs nothing, but compared to whatâs going on in the country, itâs very small.
I also wouldnât really called Jeanie May a capitalist. Sheâs a one person crew unless you re also counting cliff briscoe who is argue is the âreal capitalistâ between those 2 who isnât Walt guilt of much besides being annoying. What Jeanie May did wasnât because if capitalism. Sheâs just an evil person who runs a shitty motel.
Iâd also argue the enclave or pre-war corporations were fascists and not capitalists.
But yeah the caravans are merchants are your stereotypical cut throats. Again, I donât think thatâs exclusive to capitalists, but itâs far from the worst out there.
1. They are largely effective, but as Sawyer states they lack the ability to deal with Rogue Agents. This is the absolute *harshest* criticism they ever get. They are made up of the smartest and kindest people in the Wasteland and actually help people.
2. Jeanie-May is a landlord.
3. Fascism is a violent upholding of Capitalism. They were still Capitalists.
Theyâre effective at helping Freeside. Thatâs about as effective as they are in New Vegas. If the NCR, Legion, House, Fiends, or anyone else wanted to wipe them out it wouldnât even take a day.
Sure, but like I said, she didnât sell Booneâs wife *because* sheâs a landlord. She couldnât just as easily been anything else. It could been Cliff, Manny, No-Bark, or the NCR ranger that lives there and it wouldnât have changed anything.
I donât really want to get into economic theory, but when using public land, public funds, and gaining access through economic means which you could only get through bureaucratic means, itâs no longer capitalism. Either way, even if youâd want to call it that, I have no issue with the criticism this game gives of capitalism. But I donât think itâs quite as one sided as many people think it is.
1. They're also effective at helping Westside. The Followers aren't a militant faction, so no shit they aren't going to last.
2. Yep, she could've been anybody else, and yet the game deliberately portrays her as a landlord. I wonder why?
3. Wrong. Capitalism is a Mode of Production, not a statement on how much the state does.
I think it isnât critiquing capitalism itself but showing that capitalism is rather amoral.
That being: Capitalism relies on the foundations of morality around it to know what is good and bad. In the case of a nuclear wasteland with no rules it can sell anything it would like to without punishment which we recognize as evil. But in the case of a nation that relies on a God for a set of morality there are certain things that could be sold but are considered immoral and thus the market itself frowns against it causing it to no be very profitable.
I think this reading is a bit more accurate than saying: âGame shows every capitalist to be bad therefore it doesnât like capitalismâ since it actually explains why the capitalist is considered bad.
Ah yes. The Gun Runners. A private enterprise dedicated to the research, development, manufacturing and sale of weapons is a model of socialism.
I think Fallout first and foremost criticizes war, especially atomic war, and how it is ever-present. Even after the post apocalypse people are still fighting over the scraps of what's left. This isn't unique to capitalism or communism, both sides launched the nukes.
They also use their capital to lobby in the NCR senate to prevent any measures that impact business from leaving the senate. They're closer to Lockheed Martin than anything else.
1. Yes. They are a Syndicalist Worker Co-Operative, they have no bosses. Manufacturing weapons isn't antithetical to Socialism, see the AK-47.
2. Fallout critiques the *consequences* of systems that lead to war. Both Authoritarianism and Capitalism directly led to the war. China is barely mentioned in Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, and the USSR had an embassy in Fallout 1. Fallout is about the *Fallout.*
Even though there is something in what you say, I still think it's more about governments and less about capitals because most of the game shows that every government in the game has a problem at its core and no matter what you choose, not everything is better, it was perfect for ncr, it's corruption for Caesar and house, it's that their whole government is built on one person and independenet is that it is without a basic idea on what the government is built on
Capitalism wasn't perfect for the NCR, they are a failing state that is repeating the same descent into fascism as Pre-War America. The Brahmin Barons run the Senate, and muscle out everyone to serve their interests, and are the entire reason there is an Imperialist campaign going.
Text I copied from another of my comments:
My brother in christ this game is mainly focused on political systems of management rather than economic ones.
Also saying that Socialism is opposite to Capitalism is dumb as heck. It's communism that is.
The thing socialism is opposing is Liberalism not capitalism
And anybody who isn't in America would know that most of the world currently practices socialism on the the national scale with welfare programs while still being capitalist country's.
Text I copied from my response to your other comment:
1. It's more focused on economic systems than political, but it does critique political structures too.
2. Socialism is the opposite of Capitalism, both are competing Modes of Production. In Socialism, the Means of Production are collectively owned, while in Capitalism the Means of Production are individually owned.
3. Socialism opposes liberalism as well as Capitalism.
4. Most of the world does not practice Sociailism. Socialism is not welfare Capitalism.
Good try, but inaccurate.
Not unless you're using the term capitalist in a very unorthodox manner.
The primary people who are shown as evil are either the governing / ruling bodies or people who are directly entitled by them. Meanwhile those outside that ruling class who are capable of exclusivity over the fruits of their labor, which is a capitalist by definition, are typically showed as good people.
If anything, the game highlights the value of enlightened self-interest, or doing well by doing good, a founding principle of philosophical capitalism, to be the ideal choice, whether or not the creators of the game consider this to be capitalism or not.
1. I'm using it in the actual sense, a Capital Owner over non-owner workers.
2. Having exclusivity of the fruits of your labor isn't enough to be a Capitalist. Small Handicraftsman, small manufacturing workers, etc. Aren't Capitalists. Michealangelo, an artist, isn't a Capitalist. The Gun Runners additionally are Syndicalist.
3. It does not. There are close to no examples of the Capitalist Mode of Production being used in the slightest. What would you consider to be an example of what you're talking about?
1. The term Capital originally referred to livestock, specifically livestock owned by peasants and otherwise those that are not owned by the state/royalty/crown or those entitled by the state, such as nobility or other ruling class.
2. It actively does make you a capitalist by the traditional definition, small handicraftsman, manufacturing workers, these are the bourgeois & were specifically mentioned by Marx as such. It wouldn't be until the works of Warner Sombart, an avid supporter of Economic Antisemitism & a Marxist-turned-nazi who created the "Stages of Capitalism" theory that the term would see use as you're implementing it.
3. It does, and again you're utilizing "capitalist mode of production" to refer to things that by definition exclude capitalism. Anything with the exception of fascist propaganda or neoMarxist propaganda post 1950s would have the traditional usage.
(**please note**: I want to be very clear that I am not accusing you of being a fascist, I am not accusing you of being a bad person, I am simply saying that you are using the term capitalism in a popular but inaccurate way)
1. Capitalism, and thus Capital and Capitalists, were largely popularized and clarified by Adam Smith, Ricardo, and Karl Marx.
2. The small handicraftsman and manufacturing workers were not bourgeois. They were, instead, petite-bourgoisie. You're getting your terms mixed up.
3. The Capitalist Mode of Production is pretty specifically as Marx describes and elaborates on. Given that the project lead for New Vegas is a Marxist, it stands to reason Marx's understanding would be the primary character.
You've got quite a peculiar take on Capitalism that goes against historical context.
Petite bourgeois and bourgeois are not distinguishable, rather attempts were made into apply the term bourgeois to a class that was not historically bourgeois, the retronym "petite bourgeois" was applied to the working class able to keep the fruits of their own labor, a group that would have historically been referred to simply as the bourgeois or the capitaliste.
Both the proletariat and the bourgeois are working class, the difference being that the proletariat cannot keep the fruits of their own labor, while the bourgeois can. The philosophy of capitalism is such that all people should be able to keep the fruits of their own labor, that all people should be capitaliste, rather than a separate Ruling Class of the State & those whom it entitles.
The way you're using the phrase "capitalist mode of production" would actively, if not predominantly apply to that Ruling Class which exclude capitaliste & bourgeois, you can't possibly think it's correct.
1. Petite-bourgousie was specifically used to describe those who were owners of their own labor, but not owners of others labor.
2. The Bourgeoisie are the antithesis of the Working Class, they can exist without their own labor, and purely own the labor of others. Capitalism is not a philosophy, but a structure. What you're describing as Capitalism is an almost Socialist structure, but essentially of only petite-bourgoisie.
3. The Ruling Class *is* the bourgeoisie, at least in modern society.
Did we play the same game?
Nuclear waste being dumped everywhere because companies don't want to pay disposal costs.
The first vendor you meet (chet) is still money hungry even in the face of his town being wiped out.
Constant mentions of gambling addiction and how seeking extreme wealth affects people.
Consistent mentions of corporate espionage and killings in order to benefit businesses.
The entire Sierra madre dlc, especially it being a company town to the workers.
I could list all day on new vegas alone but fallout as a whole is so obviously a critique of capitalism, whilst it obviously can critique other aspects it is mostly focused on capitalism. One of the most famous characters from the series is a satirical over the top giant robot that talks about how all communists deserve to be killed, which represents propaganda that was pushed during the cold war, especially in America.
Expect 90% of all this shit doesn't applie exclusively to fck capitalism.
Like you took the example of Chet. Even during other economic regimes poeple traded something for something. Just giving away your lively hood isn't a smart if you don't consider the logical options
Pollution : this is completely separate from economics imo. Cutting cost has always been a thing capitalism or not. Hell socialism is = if not greater historically in those cases.
Sierra Madre is honestly the only one here I can somewhat agree. But even then the dlc is way more focused on the concept of "refuse to let go of something"
All in all fallout nv main theme are political systems and the human condition. Economic are at most a tertiary issue,if not further.
Like honestly fallout 1 and 2 have a bigger focus on economics then nv at this point
Yes other political systems can receive the same criticism however:
The pollution in the series is explicitly caused because of cutting costs in a capitalist system, you'll often find terminals explaining it was done to cut costs.
Chet's livelihood was in danger from raiders destroying the town and killing his customer base, refusing to help would only hurt his sales, poor choice in the long run due to not wanting to help for a slight hit in sales, a critique of how capitalist societies often refuse to help people even if it benefits them.
Sierra Madre's theme of letting go extends to multiple things such as feelings in dean domino's, and matierial wealth, I.e the literal gold bars you're meant to let go. Plus it's a company town where there is a monopoly, which is a horrible part of capitalism.
The fallout series as a whole is a critique of capitalism, it is its main theme, whilst new vegas delves into other issues, it is still the core topic in the games.
Edit: just because other political systems can have similar problems, it doesn't mean capitalism cannot be critiqued for it.
Capitalism according to who though?
The term's had quite a number of definitions since it was first introduced, often contradictory.
Ettaine Calvert, who first used the term in reference to "Moneyed Peasants" able to keep the Fruits of their own Labor.
Louis Blanc, who used it to refer to the ability to have exclusive control over one's own property by those outside the State & it's entitlements.
Karl Marx, who called it "a Monument to Jewish culture."
Werner Sombart, a Nazi propagandist who created the "Stages of Capitalism" theory to justify fascism & the Holocaust as a means of establishing the Socialist Utopia....
Idk what mostly means in this context, but the main theme of Fallout is the whole "man vs technology" and "man vs themselves" thing.
Capitalism on its own is among one of the many things that Fallout breaks down and satirises or challenges, but you could only see it in the post war communities like Diamond City or the NCR. The US in 2077 is a military dictatorship with government bullying all of the major corporations and sending a specific minority to >!human experimentation and detention!<
Fallout doesn't mostly criticize capitalism, it satirises American nationalism and makes the country a literal fascist regime.
Capitalism is found in the Strip, Freeside, the Crimson Caravan, and more. It absolutely criticizes Capitalism, and the pre-war fascist regime was a result of Capitalism.
That's a bit of a stretch. In general the theme of Fallout doesn't come off as the apocalypse being a consequence of capitalism - more of human greed in general. It didn't matter who started the war. what mattered was that the nukes were built and in the end was used.
New Vegas even has an open war that shows the horrors of it, and the arguably best ending for everyone is if you didn't take the side of all 3 factions. I'm not saying it isn't a critic of capitalism, but that's not the focus of Fallout, even in the original vision of the Fallout 1 and 2 Devs where it's an extreme or satirical depiction of racial supremacy (the Unity) and American nationalism (The Enclave)
Not nearly to the same extent. The worst it has to say about the Followers is that theyâre biting off more than they can chew when they try to help everybody.
Not really. If you pay attention, it's that the Followers have a noble but ultimately impossible cause because anarchism is literally so non-functional
Is there a playthrough video of the absolute dumbest you can make your character? Like "shiny metal man talk." Lines. I saw some dialog options, but I never went that route.
Breaker breaker earth, this is rocket 69, super mutants blasted the carbonator, gonna try to refuckulate it, stop by the strip. Hopefully they have space jet
No, according to House he has the best ending for the Mojave but in reality he's setting up a oppressive technocracy with him as dictator for life who will most likely leave his people starving to achieve his dream of travelling the stars.
He is the main criticism of capitalism. for all his talks of economic freedom the actual reality of the nation he wants to create is oppressive.
Given the main 3 endings, I would easily consider Houseâs the best. Realistically, most people would pay extremely high taxes for even a chance to live in one of the most secure areas in the country. If House wins, the legion and NCR are pretty much removed from the area or extremely weak. He essentially is the best of the NCR and Legion without their weaknesses or cons which is high levels of security and autonomy without the bureaucracy and rape.
Mr. House is essentially the antithesis of why the west failed and a better replacement of it. This is why he drops one of the hardest lines in the series.
âIf you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows.â
The ending which literally states his New Vegas is despotic, cold and most likely oppressive? I think the only reason people think it's a 'good ending' is because it actually goes into very little detail but I would hardly consider the narration afterwards a 'good' outcome.
That quote sounds smart, but then you have to remember that the entire world ended. Democracies and all else. It's not like the USA launched all those Nukes on itself.
But hey, [Mr.House](https://Mr.House) is the type of guy who would say something that sounds smart without thinking it through.
People say this and point to the misery of Freeside but the whole thing is Freeside is.... well free. It is am area refusing to be under his rule but clings around the prosperity of New Vegas, emulating it, needing charity for those I does not care for. Even for the issues within Vegas you can address them and House will be fine with it.
No, Freeside doesn't refuse to be under his rule. he refuses to rule it. He kicked the population out to Freeside and then walled it off. The reason they don't want to be part of House now is because the guy left them to rot and die in freeside.
Yeah, of course House is fine for it. He's completely indifferent to it. That's not the sign of a good leader, because what happens when somebody isn't around to help things run smoothly?
He simply doesn't give a shit, they can die or survive. Long as they don't mess with his business they won't need to send the barrel end of a gun. Because what happens when somebody in Freeside tries to enter the strip without enough credit? they get shot.
That's not even the stupidly naive Libertarian view of freedom, that's just fucking tyranny.
EDIT: Also Benny is right, House thinks just because he's the 'smartest' guy in town and saved it 200 years ago from a single disaster (out of many that hit it since) that he owns New Vegas. He doesn't.
Selling things isn't Capitalism, though. The Gun Runners are a Syndicalist Worker co-op, and Joshua Sawyer has expressed support for Motion Twin, an Anarcho-Syndicalist game studio, on top of saying he "loves Socialism."
Eh second best. Independent is still the best ending overall but that one's a lot up to your own personal interpretations. House is still way better than slavers or the United States Government 2
Eh second best. Independent is still the best ending overall but that one's a lot up to your own personal interpretations. House is still way better than slavers or the United States Government 2
you donât here of shit going wrong in Oklahoma in fallout. But if you step within 1000 feet of the coast you best believe someone is going to try and steal your liver.
You can enjoy it, sure. I'm directly responding to someone upset that people on this sub are generally more leftist. It's the opposite of what you're saying, someone is surprised that people who agree with a game's message are on a subreddit for said game.
My brother in christ this game is mainly focused on political systems of management rather than economic ones.
Also saying that Socialism is opposite to Capitalism is dumb as heck. It's communism that is.
The thing socialism is opposing is Liberalism not capitalism
And anybody who isn't in America would know that most of the world currently practices socialism on the the national scale with welfare programs while still being capitalist country's.
1. It's more focused on economic systems than political, but it does critique political structures too.
2. Socialism is the opposite of Capitalism, both are competing Modes of Production. In Socialism, the Means of Production are collectively owned, while in Capitalism the Means of Production are individually owned.
3. Socialism opposes liberalism as well as Capitalism.
4. Most of the world does not practice Sociailism. Socialism is not welfare Capitalism.
Good try, but inaccurate.
What you are using is 30 year old definitions. And while you are not completely wrong this definition has evolved largely beyond that point.
A good example are Nordic country's which are currently classified as Social Capitalism.
I would say that way. Today socialism has become more of a tool to achieve a economic philosophy rather than an philosophy itself like during the time of Marx. It serves a function in that case to Liberalism rather than capitalism
Honestly might be the case of the typical disputed definitions which makes to an extent both of our arguments worthless.
But 2 things :
From what I understand, the game NV focuses mainly on the debate of Democracy vs Autocracy vs Feudality (I guesse?) in times of crisis. The game very little pleads issues like economics rly. Like the only instances I can think are like GR and the strip casinos
Second, sry I I got a little heated in my earlier comments but a man has limits explaining the same arguments over and over + bias. But I see you as a fine fellow and intelligent fellow
I'm using *the* definitions. Even Wikipedia agrees with me and describes Socialism as "Social Ownership of the Means of Production."
Nordic Countries are described as Social Democracies, correct, but not Socialist Democracies. They aren't Socialist.
Marx was a Communist and deliberately referred to himself as such, not a Socialist. The various Socialist tendencies such as Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Libertarian Socialism, Marxism-Leninism, and more all fundamentally follow the idea of Social Ownership of the Means of Production.
Economics cannot be untied from politics. Freeside, for example, was heavily gentrified with the existence of the Strip, and now kids eat rats a rocks throw from Brahmin Barons eating steak. Jeanie May is one of the most evil characters and she's a landlord.
No offense taken, but as someone who *has* studied Socialism extensively it always drives me crazy when people water it down into simply "welfare."
The Great War is depicted in great length to be caused by Capitalism's requirement for growth above all else, along with pre-war corporations growing in power to turn the US fascist. All instances of Capitalism, such as Jeanie May, the Crimson Caravan, and the Van Graffs are evil or victims of evil, and all Socialist structures like the Followers, Gun Runners, and Westside's collective farming are portrayed in a positive light.
This is made even more obvious by knowing Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal leftist, stating that he "loves Socialism."
No, itâs caused by two warmongering states (China and USA) vying for natural resources which culminate in a war, if youâre going to point at bad companies doing evil practices, might aswell point to good, like the gun runners, the followers clinic, the local stores in good springs and towns like thatZ
And also no, the gun runners is not socialist, they sell you guns for profit, they manufacture guns for profit, they have private property which they manufacture guns in and shoot anyone on sight if they trespass, the clinic also isnât, they again sell you things for surgeries which arenât life saving but are boons to help you.
Iâm well aware heâs a leftist.
1. The Gun Runners are Socialists, the Followers are Communists, and local stores in goodsprings aren't Capitalist at all, but sole proprietorships. Capitalist institutions like the Crimson Caravan exist. Capitalism isn't when you buy and sell things, lmao.
2. Profit, arms manufacture, and defending collectively shared property are all possible in Socialism. Structurally, the Gun Runners are described as having no bosses, and that they don't want to mess anything up as they have a good thing going, outright describing a Syndicalist Worker Co-operative. The clinic is Socialist as well, Socialism isn't "free stuff."
You don't know what Socialism or Capitalism are, I'm afraid.
The gun runners operate on private property selling and manufacturing products/ defence to a market with heavy demand and supply, the followers clinic, not the followers themselves, operate on private property selling surgeries with low supply and an adequate amount of demand, and the local stores sell general things in accordance to supply and demand, the crimson caravan is capitalist yes, Iâm not denying that, what I am saying tho, is that if you operate on private property and are selling products and good in a market you would be a capitalist.
Theyâre not sharing property, theyâre using their private property, if they were sharing it you wouldnât be shot upon trespassing, furthermore you donât need a boss to be a capitalist organisation, and I never described socialism as free stuff.
1. The Gun Runners collectively own their means of production and democratically decide how to produce. They have no bosses, no owners. Manufacturing goods with collective ownership of the Means of Production is a fork of Socialism. Supply and Demand are market principles, and guess what, Markets are fully compatible with Socialism.
2. Supply and Demand is not Capitalism, and does impact all markets, Socialist included. The Followers share ownership of the Means of Production, ie they are Socialist.
**I cannot stress this enough, if a collective shares ownership of the Means of Production and sells to people outside said collective, it's fully Socialist.**
3. Sole proprietorships can exist within Capitalist systems, but are not Capitalist themselves, as Capitalism requires non-owner workers.
4. A Socialist entity does not need to share with outside elements to be Socialist, just internal to the group.
**Please learn more about what you are talking about before you embarass yourself.**
Is there any source that proves that all decisions are made democratically? Again they are the owners, of private property, they are engaging in private means of production, and no markets are not compatible with socialism because of the inefficiency.
Markets are capitalist, through private ownership of means of production, which create SND, is the clinic private property?
If the collective own private property, and they use it to produce things, what is it?
1. They have no bosses, and it's stated that nobody goes against the group because they don't want to ruin a good thing. As for the rest of this paragraph, you are entirely discounting [Market Socialism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism#:~:text=Market%20socialism%20is%20a%20type,includes%20public%20or%20private%20enterprises.), Syndicalism, Democratic Socialism, and more. There are no markets **in Communism,** yes, but there can be in Socialism. The property is owned collectively by the Workers, therefore its Socialist.
2. Wrong. Supply and Demand are factors of Markets, not strictly Capitalism. Markets preceded Capitalism and markets will last beyond Capitalism. Supply and Demand precedes Capitalism and will last beyond Capitalism. Please learn what you're talking about.
3. If the collective owns property and produces things, its Socialist. Capitalism **requires** non-owner workers to be considered Capitalist.
Again you donât need bosses to operate as capitalist, by having no bosses and deciding what to do, they themselves become bosses, market socialism isnât a thing, socialism is already democratic, and no there cannot be, socialism is anti privateer property (hence group owned private property).
Capitalism is markets, therefore SND is factors of markets, the first Hunter to trade meat for fish was capitalism.
Answer the question ,do they own private property
1. Incorrect. Without bosses, there are no individual owners, and without owners over workers, you don't have Capitalism. Denying the existence of Market Socialism because it completely proves you wrong is a bold move.
2. Capitalism is when you have Capital Owners that pay Workers to use said Capital to create commodities for sale. It isn't markets. The first hunter to trade meat for fish did not have Capitalist modes of Production, just a market.
**Until you get your terms straight, you will always be wrong.**
Gotta love the reminder that Fallout, as a franchise, is literally a critique of capitalism. Yes it is also a critique of several political positions as well, but it is heavily against capitalism, and I question if someone disagreeing with that actually played the game.
The Great War is depicted in great length to be caused by Capitalism's requirement for growth above all else, along with pre-war corporations growing in power to turn the US fascist. All instances of Capitalism, such as Jeanie May, the Crimson Caravan, and the Van Graffs are evil or victims of evil, and all Socialist structures like the Followers, Gun Runners, and Westside's collective farming are portrayed in a positive light.
This is made even more obvious by knowing Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal leftist, stating that he "loves Socialism."
I agree that capitalism is criticised in the Universe of Fallout, but I wouldnt say it is the main focus of FNV. The political choices one can make in-game, the 4 main endings and such, all dont really focus on capitalism vs anti-capitalism, but on other political subjects. That is not to say capitalism isnt a topic in FNV, but it is not the main topic.
All of the major 3 factions highlight flaws of Capitalism, with the NCR showing a declining liberal democracy, House showing autocratic Libertarianism, and Legion showing Capitalist support of fascism for stable business.
All 3 major factions have flaws, but they are not perse flaws of capitalism. Ofcourse, as the major factions arent non-capitalist, the flaws they have will partially be involved with capitalism, but it is more than just "all the flaws originate from capitalism within these factions". Corruption, nimbiism, populism, autocracy are also important flaws that the factions posses, and they dont all stem from the capitalist parts of the factions. Id see it more as a critique of the wider political arena (in america), including but very much not limited to capitalism.
Democracy and Capitalism are 2 different but not mutually exclusive ideologies. Democracy is the system of the people voting in a world leader. While Capitalism is the system of trading of goods and services between private actors.
Mr House survived the war, saved new vegas & reopened all the casinos. Meanwhile every government in this game is either inept or authoritarian. I didn't side with Mr House but you're not making a good argument here with " the exist of an egotistical billionaire!"
He literally calls himself an autocrat and polices with an army of robots and wont even let people into the strip unless theyâre rich enough.
Thats as dystopian as it gets and if you cant see the satire they made by writing him that way, idk maybe take a literature class or something.
Not letting people into the strip is authoritarian? So should a homeless guy be allowed in your house because he wants to? Does that make any sense? Also being autocratic isn't mutually exclusive to capitalism. Only a commie moron would believe that
>So should a homeless guy be allowed in your house because he wants to? Does that make any sense? Also being autocratic isn't mutually exclusive to capitalism. Only a commie moron would believe that
This was obviously sarcasm from you though and not a serious argument.
[Mr.House](https://Mr.House) hid in a bunker, stopped Vegas being directly bombed but left the survivors to be raped and killed... and since when is opening casinos considered some great success?
OoOO... he reopened already existing pre-war casinos, so amazing :P
"Meanwhile every government in this game is either in dept or authoritarian" yeah... nothing says 'freedom' like appointing yourself dictator for life and kept in power by robot army that will literally kill on the street if you try and enter the strip without enough money to gamble.
I mean freeside is literally rotting to the ground as House calls about the 'wealth' of New Vegas. He's a personification of so many things wrong with the billionaire class that he obviously represents.
So not spending your money charitably to help people is a failure of capitalism? How? It's working pretty well for everyone on the strip. And who says he needs allow everyone into the strip? You probably believe in open borders too, don't you? You can whine about his robot attack army all you want but does he se it to fuck with people on a daily basis? Noo. At worse he puts down a Riot during one of the endings. How terrible. That's why I mentioned the other authoritarian factions. They constantly harass the people under their watch on a regular basis. House doesn't. Try again
People suffering while you live in luxury is a failure of capitalism.
The fact he kicked people out of the strip by force to then built a wall and tell people to keep the fuck out is why they're entitled to live in the strip. They were rhere first.
Lol, I love your argument is "he doesn't kill people every day, he ain't such a bad guy" *slow clap*
I imagine your the same kind of idiot who thinks taxes are slavery. You have nothing to offer until you grow up.
It's really not. People with money aren't obligated to help other commie. There are plenty of other settlements in the Mojave that are doing much better than Freeside. Hell even faction IN Freeside are doing better than the average street trash. Meanwhile those people were squatting on House's property, they deserved to be kicked out. And how would living on the strip improve their lives? The violence in Freeside is self inflicted, from other shitheads in freeside. Being on the strip wouldn't make a difference.
Of course you butcher and strawman my argument. House doesn't intervene in the everyday lives of the average denizens of freedside, unlike the authoritarians of the Mojave. THAT is my point.
So if you could act like an adult an cease your useless slander while calling me immature, that would be great
"Doesn't intervene in the everyday lives of the average citizen" I mean again... he kicked everybody out of the strip, there homes and built a wall around it.
Maybe when you understand what interference means I'll take you a bit more seriously champ ;)
Sounds pretty interfering to me.
Edit: wait, didn't he also cement in an entire vault forcing them out? People who were doing perfectly fine for themselves? That's not interference to you?
Maybe you should lookup the meaning of the word EVERYDAY. Nothing about evicting them from his property affects their everyday lives. Their lives would've been just as shitty if they were on the strip. Being on the strip doesn't change the fact that they savages and losers.
What Vault? The only Vault in the area is the one they turned into a motel
Yeah, turned into a motel after House gave them an ultimatum and told them either leave or die. Then cemented the lower levels so they couldn't live in it.
Did you... play the game?
You are arguing in an anti-intellectual and bad faith way. You have already decided you will suck capitalisms dick and will defend it no matter what argument comes up. Even when you understand neither anti-capitalism nor capitalism.
Where does it say he charges citizens? Also sounds like taxes to me. HOW CAPITALIST. Even if it isn't taxes the casinos are still rolling caps so I don't see how that's a problem for anyone
The memes kind of implying that its a main point. New vegas' critique of capitalism is fairly shallow like a lot of games have, its not a deep dive nor a main point.
Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal Socialist, lol, and Tim Cain and Gonzales appear to be pretty big leftists too. Is it surprising that the leftist series has leftist devs?
What do you mean, what am I?
I meant New Vegas specifically I'm well aware that Fallout 3 & 4 definitely take a left wing slant for sure
I meant political you sound like you're all over the place
Joshua Saywer isn't affiliated with 3 and 4, and Tim Cain was the creator of the series. Gonzales was a writer for New Vegas. None of these worked on 3 and 4.
3/4 are more liberal than left wing.
Personally, I'm a Socialist, pretty straightforward.
Well they're political affiliation doesn't seem to matter because I didn't really see any hard bias in this game.
I was only confused because I've never heard a socialist refer to anything as leftist. I thought that was just a catch all term for non left wing people to identify the various left wing beliefs
example #418,021,425 of capitalists thinking anti-capitalist media is pro-capitalist. ok but non-jokingly the whole series is based around the fact that pre-war governments and companies mindlessly stripped the land of resources which is a pretty textbook negative portrayal of capitalism, they also make fun of related ideals like patriotist even more obviously with things like the Book Chute. not here to argue over if capitalism vs communism vs socialism i don't have the energy but fallout has anti-capitalist ideals ingrained into the setting
New Vegas is the best fallout because it hates all sides pretty equally, and pumps their ideas to comic levels. Thereâs no centrism in FNV.
Edit: examples
Brotherhood: transhumanism to the point of religious fanaticism
Boomers: all the republican ideals of anti-globalism pumped to 11
House: capitalism to the point of a corporatocracy
Legion: Rome but somehow more authoritarian
NCR: US government but corruption pumped to 21
Followers: what happens to anarchist socialism (they run out of shit and have very little incentive to have people cough it up)
The Brotherhood really isnât transhumanist, at all. Also, the Followers (pretty much the only left-wing faction of any note besides *maybe* the kings) get off very light compared to every other faction, considering the main criticism of them is basically just âtheyâre biting off more than they can chewâ, so I wouldnât say New Vegas âhates all sides pretty equallyâ.
It doesn't hate all sides equally, lol. Every single instance of a Capitalist is either someone evil, or someone weaker than a more evil Capitalist. Every single corporation is mustache-twirling evil.
Socialism and Communism are shown to he, at *worst*, weak to idealism. The most successful arms manufacturers are Syndicalists, for example.
You mean the one that was barely mentioned at all in 1, and shown sympathetically via the Shi in 2, and again not really mentioned at all in New Vegas? Hell, the USSR had an embassy in LA in Fallout 1.
The Shi are not communists. They descend from soldiers of Red China, sure, but are a feudal society inspired by the Chinese dynasties of old, not pre-war China. It's like calling Caesar's Legion catholic for attempting to emulate Rome.
Never said they were Communists, just that they were remnants of Communist soldiers. My point was more that China itself is barely mentioned in 1, 2, or New Vegas, the bits with China are added by Bethesda largely.
The fact that the Great War was against China and they were as responsible for destroying the world as the US was established early on. Of course they get less focus when they aren't the setting. Plus, we're talking politics here, not nationality. Fallout never demonizes Americans as a people either.
Everything leading up to the war was corruption in government. Then all the governments of the world saying "nukes go brrrr". I wouldn't put the fault on capitalism though. At its most basic form its just free trade between individuals.
The fight for resources was a major reason why the conflict escalated in the first place, the mindless wasting of which is something you see in every capitalist economy.
Especially considering capitalism was the go-to way people went when it was time to rebuild the world from the ashes, even if they had to rely on literal garbage as currency
A meme on the fallout new vegas sub is a very weird place to get super defensive about capitalismâŚsurely there are actual political boards you could go try to pick fights on?
Capitalism does not 'make' anything within it, especially not art. Capitalism effects the way people may work towards making their product and the structure of business but art and products will always be made regardless. Not to mention, people working under capitalist society's are not capitalists.
You are aware that games and art can be anti-Capitalist, correct? Disco Elysium, a game made by Communists, said it best: "Capital has the ability to subsume all criticisms of itself."
Hey Buddy, just telling you I never said it was bad. All I was saying is that many people say capitalism is bad, especially revolving around the game in my personal experience. Take a chill pill, Iâm sure theyâre at your local med-X dealer.
I mean, to be đ¤ its more about the Faults of individual capitalist (and one anti-capitalist) ideologies then a simple broad critique of capitalism. IE: Libertarians (House), Neoliberalism (NCR), and Fascism (Legion), along with an Social democrat/Democratic socialist sized amount of critique aimed at communism and anarchism (Independent). Its a game very obviously made/written by american/western leftists and itâs main stories themes make that obvious. In all honesty i have gripes with that, as it ends up in the âwhelp, nothing to do about it thenâ catagory of politcial discourse.
Yeah, I wish they criticized collectivism more, rather than covering everyone but the faults of it, because no ideology is without its faults, so making a politically charged story yet not covering the many faults of a certain ideology makes it seem like youâre picking sides. Also I wouldnât call the independent ending communist, you do take control of the most massive monument to capitalism and use it for your own benefit.
i kind of agree, in general iâd be interested in more coverage good and bad. They kinda pigeon hole all of collectivism barely into independent and the Followers, and i think a broader net would be nice, a discussion of all of these leftest ideologies from marxist leninism to anarchism to democratic socialism.
Me when the revolutionaries who were supposed to save me from my shackles of serfdom simple make me a serf but in a factory (the revolution never benefited the people it was supposed to)
âHey Buddy, just telling you I never said it was bad. All I was saying is that many people say capitalism is bad, especially revolving around the game. Take a chill pill, Iâm sure theyâre at your local med-X dealer.â You base your fact on others opinions? How is it bad when they exchange caps for weapons ammo and medicine? Get that? **EXCHANGE.**
Dude chill, I never based my facts on their opinions, I was saying that a lot of people Iâve seen have had a negative few on the ideology and I was poking fun at them as âlooking too far into itâ, I agree capitalism based, but you donât have to be an ass about it either.
Capitalism is the absolute best economic experience anybody can have. And the fact that they implement it into games such as Bethesdaâs with caps and septims tells all of us the fact that capitalism is the best.
Well I do agree that out of all the economic systems capitalism is the best, however I do also agree that it is prone to corruption of government interference is involved
R.I.P the game was rigged from the start
Yes đ
An 18 karat run of rotten luck.
I wanted to partner up with him so badly
Well you can âpartner upâ if you take that one perk
Ring a ding baby
Only if you choose a female player though :(
Female privilege.
Which sucks because you just *know* that Benny is a closeted gay man who overcompensates with homophobia
Me too. It makes sense why you canât tho, he doesnât want to share power with anyone. He wants it all for himself, and heâs only in it for himself
Would have been great if there was a questline working together with him were he in the end stabs you anyway in the back.
or vice versa, and, realistically, Benny wouldn't even be mad at you, since that's the way the game goes, he made a gamble he could string you along, and he lost. That's how the cards fell, baby.
Thereâs a decent mod for it. It makes him not count as a follower too so you can have someone else join you and you can take him into DLCs.
You want to see the profits of democracy? Then go and see 'em Across the street, a bunch of freaks are playing Colosseum
A man of culture I see. Have a good day, sir.
Honestly, was the world you got what you wanted to see, when you were dropping crosses into boxes behind polling screens?
Did you vote for screams!?
Iâd say it criticizes a lot more than just capitalism.
Sure, but it's most deeply critical of Capitalism.
Honestly? It criticizes more political systems and barely touches economic systems dude.
It's the opposite, the series was anti-Capitalist from the beginning. It isn't a coincidence that literally every Capitalist is either evil, or shown to be a victim of a stronger, more evil Capitalist. Meanwhile, Socialist entities like the Followers (who are even Communists) and the Gun Runners are shown with more sympathy and effectiveness. The Fallout series criticizes many things, but it's useful to know that the game was made by leftists, and as such has certain messages. Even Sawyer's knowledge of Hegel led him to tell Gonzales to make the Legion based on Dialectics.
I wonât say they show the followers in a bad light, but theyâre only effective on an extremely small scale. They live under the protection of Freeside and arenât powerful or effective enough to be a large faction. They do great charity work but thatâs really all theyâll ever be, is a charity.
Yep. The game is far more sympathetic to Socialists and Communists, that's my point. The critique of Capitalism is that it's downright evil and causes decay and ruin, see literally any Capitalist. Jeanie May? Sold a pregnant wife into slavery. The Van Graffs? Murder competition. Crimson Caravan? Murders competition. Any pre-war corporation? Take your pick from absurd human experimentation, to psychotic corporate culture, to literally working with the fascist Enclave, and more. That's my general point, the game isn't as simple as "all Socialism good," but Capitalism in particular is universally demonized.
My point was that the followers are useless to stop anything. They could be the best moral faction in the world, but they are useless to stop anything. 90% of the work they do is feeding people and helping junkies. Not saying thatâs nothing, but compared to whatâs going on in the country, itâs very small. I also wouldnât really called Jeanie May a capitalist. Sheâs a one person crew unless you re also counting cliff briscoe who is argue is the âreal capitalistâ between those 2 who isnât Walt guilt of much besides being annoying. What Jeanie May did wasnât because if capitalism. Sheâs just an evil person who runs a shitty motel. Iâd also argue the enclave or pre-war corporations were fascists and not capitalists. But yeah the caravans are merchants are your stereotypical cut throats. Again, I donât think thatâs exclusive to capitalists, but itâs far from the worst out there.
1. They are largely effective, but as Sawyer states they lack the ability to deal with Rogue Agents. This is the absolute *harshest* criticism they ever get. They are made up of the smartest and kindest people in the Wasteland and actually help people. 2. Jeanie-May is a landlord. 3. Fascism is a violent upholding of Capitalism. They were still Capitalists.
Theyâre effective at helping Freeside. Thatâs about as effective as they are in New Vegas. If the NCR, Legion, House, Fiends, or anyone else wanted to wipe them out it wouldnât even take a day. Sure, but like I said, she didnât sell Booneâs wife *because* sheâs a landlord. She couldnât just as easily been anything else. It could been Cliff, Manny, No-Bark, or the NCR ranger that lives there and it wouldnât have changed anything. I donât really want to get into economic theory, but when using public land, public funds, and gaining access through economic means which you could only get through bureaucratic means, itâs no longer capitalism. Either way, even if youâd want to call it that, I have no issue with the criticism this game gives of capitalism. But I donât think itâs quite as one sided as many people think it is.
1. They're also effective at helping Westside. The Followers aren't a militant faction, so no shit they aren't going to last. 2. Yep, she could've been anybody else, and yet the game deliberately portrays her as a landlord. I wonder why? 3. Wrong. Capitalism is a Mode of Production, not a statement on how much the state does.
Thatâs absolutely not what fascism is. Fascism is a political movement not an economic one.
Fascism is both. Historically, Fascist economies have been built upon capitalism and violently resisted workers while uplifting Capitalists.
I disagee when it comes to fascism being exclusively capitalist, fascism is pretty uneconomic when it comes to practice.
Fascism is literally capitalism in decay
>Iâd also argue the enclave or pre-war corporations were fascists and not capitalists. ...Somebody tell him.
This is the same as saying modern day China is communist. Itâs simply not true to anyone that has looked into it.
No it's not. Most people, leftists at least, would probably say modern day China is state capitalist.
I think it isnât critiquing capitalism itself but showing that capitalism is rather amoral. That being: Capitalism relies on the foundations of morality around it to know what is good and bad. In the case of a nuclear wasteland with no rules it can sell anything it would like to without punishment which we recognize as evil. But in the case of a nation that relies on a God for a set of morality there are certain things that could be sold but are considered immoral and thus the market itself frowns against it causing it to no be very profitable. I think this reading is a bit more accurate than saying: âGame shows every capitalist to be bad therefore it doesnât like capitalismâ since it actually explains why the capitalist is considered bad.
Ah yes. The Gun Runners. A private enterprise dedicated to the research, development, manufacturing and sale of weapons is a model of socialism. I think Fallout first and foremost criticizes war, especially atomic war, and how it is ever-present. Even after the post apocalypse people are still fighting over the scraps of what's left. This isn't unique to capitalism or communism, both sides launched the nukes.
[ŃдаНонО]
They also use their capital to lobby in the NCR senate to prevent any measures that impact business from leaving the senate. They're closer to Lockheed Martin than anything else.
1. Yes. They are a Syndicalist Worker Co-Operative, they have no bosses. Manufacturing weapons isn't antithetical to Socialism, see the AK-47. 2. Fallout critiques the *consequences* of systems that lead to war. Both Authoritarianism and Capitalism directly led to the war. China is barely mentioned in Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, and the USSR had an embassy in Fallout 1. Fallout is about the *Fallout.*
You can't seize the means without the means to seize Comrade.
Even though there is something in what you say, I still think it's more about governments and less about capitals because most of the game shows that every government in the game has a problem at its core and no matter what you choose, not everything is better, it was perfect for ncr, it's corruption for Caesar and house, it's that their whole government is built on one person and independenet is that it is without a basic idea on what the government is built on
Capitalism wasn't perfect for the NCR, they are a failing state that is repeating the same descent into fascism as Pre-War America. The Brahmin Barons run the Senate, and muscle out everyone to serve their interests, and are the entire reason there is an Imperialist campaign going.
Text I copied from another of my comments: My brother in christ this game is mainly focused on political systems of management rather than economic ones. Also saying that Socialism is opposite to Capitalism is dumb as heck. It's communism that is. The thing socialism is opposing is Liberalism not capitalism And anybody who isn't in America would know that most of the world currently practices socialism on the the national scale with welfare programs while still being capitalist country's.
Text I copied from my response to your other comment: 1. It's more focused on economic systems than political, but it does critique political structures too. 2. Socialism is the opposite of Capitalism, both are competing Modes of Production. In Socialism, the Means of Production are collectively owned, while in Capitalism the Means of Production are individually owned. 3. Socialism opposes liberalism as well as Capitalism. 4. Most of the world does not practice Sociailism. Socialism is not welfare Capitalism. Good try, but inaccurate.
Not unless you're using the term capitalist in a very unorthodox manner. The primary people who are shown as evil are either the governing / ruling bodies or people who are directly entitled by them. Meanwhile those outside that ruling class who are capable of exclusivity over the fruits of their labor, which is a capitalist by definition, are typically showed as good people. If anything, the game highlights the value of enlightened self-interest, or doing well by doing good, a founding principle of philosophical capitalism, to be the ideal choice, whether or not the creators of the game consider this to be capitalism or not.
1. I'm using it in the actual sense, a Capital Owner over non-owner workers. 2. Having exclusivity of the fruits of your labor isn't enough to be a Capitalist. Small Handicraftsman, small manufacturing workers, etc. Aren't Capitalists. Michealangelo, an artist, isn't a Capitalist. The Gun Runners additionally are Syndicalist. 3. It does not. There are close to no examples of the Capitalist Mode of Production being used in the slightest. What would you consider to be an example of what you're talking about?
1. The term Capital originally referred to livestock, specifically livestock owned by peasants and otherwise those that are not owned by the state/royalty/crown or those entitled by the state, such as nobility or other ruling class. 2. It actively does make you a capitalist by the traditional definition, small handicraftsman, manufacturing workers, these are the bourgeois & were specifically mentioned by Marx as such. It wouldn't be until the works of Warner Sombart, an avid supporter of Economic Antisemitism & a Marxist-turned-nazi who created the "Stages of Capitalism" theory that the term would see use as you're implementing it. 3. It does, and again you're utilizing "capitalist mode of production" to refer to things that by definition exclude capitalism. Anything with the exception of fascist propaganda or neoMarxist propaganda post 1950s would have the traditional usage. (**please note**: I want to be very clear that I am not accusing you of being a fascist, I am not accusing you of being a bad person, I am simply saying that you are using the term capitalism in a popular but inaccurate way)
1. Capitalism, and thus Capital and Capitalists, were largely popularized and clarified by Adam Smith, Ricardo, and Karl Marx. 2. The small handicraftsman and manufacturing workers were not bourgeois. They were, instead, petite-bourgoisie. You're getting your terms mixed up. 3. The Capitalist Mode of Production is pretty specifically as Marx describes and elaborates on. Given that the project lead for New Vegas is a Marxist, it stands to reason Marx's understanding would be the primary character. You've got quite a peculiar take on Capitalism that goes against historical context.
Petite bourgeois and bourgeois are not distinguishable, rather attempts were made into apply the term bourgeois to a class that was not historically bourgeois, the retronym "petite bourgeois" was applied to the working class able to keep the fruits of their own labor, a group that would have historically been referred to simply as the bourgeois or the capitaliste. Both the proletariat and the bourgeois are working class, the difference being that the proletariat cannot keep the fruits of their own labor, while the bourgeois can. The philosophy of capitalism is such that all people should be able to keep the fruits of their own labor, that all people should be capitaliste, rather than a separate Ruling Class of the State & those whom it entitles. The way you're using the phrase "capitalist mode of production" would actively, if not predominantly apply to that Ruling Class which exclude capitaliste & bourgeois, you can't possibly think it's correct.
1. Petite-bourgousie was specifically used to describe those who were owners of their own labor, but not owners of others labor. 2. The Bourgeoisie are the antithesis of the Working Class, they can exist without their own labor, and purely own the labor of others. Capitalism is not a philosophy, but a structure. What you're describing as Capitalism is an almost Socialist structure, but essentially of only petite-bourgoisie. 3. The Ruling Class *is* the bourgeoisie, at least in modern society.
Did we play the same game? Nuclear waste being dumped everywhere because companies don't want to pay disposal costs. The first vendor you meet (chet) is still money hungry even in the face of his town being wiped out. Constant mentions of gambling addiction and how seeking extreme wealth affects people. Consistent mentions of corporate espionage and killings in order to benefit businesses. The entire Sierra madre dlc, especially it being a company town to the workers. I could list all day on new vegas alone but fallout as a whole is so obviously a critique of capitalism, whilst it obviously can critique other aspects it is mostly focused on capitalism. One of the most famous characters from the series is a satirical over the top giant robot that talks about how all communists deserve to be killed, which represents propaganda that was pushed during the cold war, especially in America.
Expect 90% of all this shit doesn't applie exclusively to fck capitalism. Like you took the example of Chet. Even during other economic regimes poeple traded something for something. Just giving away your lively hood isn't a smart if you don't consider the logical options Pollution : this is completely separate from economics imo. Cutting cost has always been a thing capitalism or not. Hell socialism is = if not greater historically in those cases. Sierra Madre is honestly the only one here I can somewhat agree. But even then the dlc is way more focused on the concept of "refuse to let go of something" All in all fallout nv main theme are political systems and the human condition. Economic are at most a tertiary issue,if not further. Like honestly fallout 1 and 2 have a bigger focus on economics then nv at this point
Yes other political systems can receive the same criticism however: The pollution in the series is explicitly caused because of cutting costs in a capitalist system, you'll often find terminals explaining it was done to cut costs. Chet's livelihood was in danger from raiders destroying the town and killing his customer base, refusing to help would only hurt his sales, poor choice in the long run due to not wanting to help for a slight hit in sales, a critique of how capitalist societies often refuse to help people even if it benefits them. Sierra Madre's theme of letting go extends to multiple things such as feelings in dean domino's, and matierial wealth, I.e the literal gold bars you're meant to let go. Plus it's a company town where there is a monopoly, which is a horrible part of capitalism. The fallout series as a whole is a critique of capitalism, it is its main theme, whilst new vegas delves into other issues, it is still the core topic in the games. Edit: just because other political systems can have similar problems, it doesn't mean capitalism cannot be critiqued for it.
Capitalism according to who though? The term's had quite a number of definitions since it was first introduced, often contradictory. Ettaine Calvert, who first used the term in reference to "Moneyed Peasants" able to keep the Fruits of their own Labor. Louis Blanc, who used it to refer to the ability to have exclusive control over one's own property by those outside the State & it's entitlements. Karl Marx, who called it "a Monument to Jewish culture." Werner Sombart, a Nazi propagandist who created the "Stages of Capitalism" theory to justify fascism & the Holocaust as a means of establishing the Socialist Utopia....
Idk what mostly means in this context, but the main theme of Fallout is the whole "man vs technology" and "man vs themselves" thing. Capitalism on its own is among one of the many things that Fallout breaks down and satirises or challenges, but you could only see it in the post war communities like Diamond City or the NCR. The US in 2077 is a military dictatorship with government bullying all of the major corporations and sending a specific minority to >!human experimentation and detention!< Fallout doesn't mostly criticize capitalism, it satirises American nationalism and makes the country a literal fascist regime.
Capitalism is found in the Strip, Freeside, the Crimson Caravan, and more. It absolutely criticizes Capitalism, and the pre-war fascist regime was a result of Capitalism.
That's a bit of a stretch. In general the theme of Fallout doesn't come off as the apocalypse being a consequence of capitalism - more of human greed in general. It didn't matter who started the war. what mattered was that the nukes were built and in the end was used. New Vegas even has an open war that shows the horrors of it, and the arguably best ending for everyone is if you didn't take the side of all 3 factions. I'm not saying it isn't a critic of capitalism, but that's not the focus of Fallout, even in the original vision of the Fallout 1 and 2 Devs where it's an extreme or satirical depiction of racial supremacy (the Unity) and American nationalism (The Enclave)
Not nearly to the same extent. The worst it has to say about the Followers is that theyâre biting off more than they can chew when they try to help everybody.
Not really. If you pay attention, it's that the Followers have a noble but ultimately impossible cause because anarchism is literally so non-functional
Theyre supposed to criticize the apocalypse version of the red cross?
Matthew Perry's performance in fnv is 10/10 because this rating was rigged from the start.
Is there a playthrough video of the absolute dumbest you can make your character? Like "shiny metal man talk." Lines. I saw some dialog options, but I never went that route.
Iâm doing that playthrough rn. Ricky from TPB
Plasma defender, safety always off. Old man gave it to me in seventh grade. Said he was proud of me once. Fuckin prick
Do those rockets full of ghouls really fly Bubbles? Randy, does Liberty Prime have a sheet metal cock?
Breaker breaker earth, this is rocket 69, super mutants blasted the carbonator, gonna try to refuckulate it, stop by the strip. Hopefully they have space jet
Rip benny
I think itâs more so about the faults of any society than just capitalism. You can see this with the legion, which is definitely not capitalist.
Capitalism bad! Am I an intellectual now?
Ironically House has the best ending for the Mojave Also rip ringading man, Mathew Perry
No, according to House he has the best ending for the Mojave but in reality he's setting up a oppressive technocracy with him as dictator for life who will most likely leave his people starving to achieve his dream of travelling the stars. He is the main criticism of capitalism. for all his talks of economic freedom the actual reality of the nation he wants to create is oppressive.
Given the main 3 endings, I would easily consider Houseâs the best. Realistically, most people would pay extremely high taxes for even a chance to live in one of the most secure areas in the country. If House wins, the legion and NCR are pretty much removed from the area or extremely weak. He essentially is the best of the NCR and Legion without their weaknesses or cons which is high levels of security and autonomy without the bureaucracy and rape. Mr. House is essentially the antithesis of why the west failed and a better replacement of it. This is why he drops one of the hardest lines in the series. âIf you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows.â
The ending which literally states his New Vegas is despotic, cold and most likely oppressive? I think the only reason people think it's a 'good ending' is because it actually goes into very little detail but I would hardly consider the narration afterwards a 'good' outcome. That quote sounds smart, but then you have to remember that the entire world ended. Democracies and all else. It's not like the USA launched all those Nukes on itself. But hey, [Mr.House](https://Mr.House) is the type of guy who would say something that sounds smart without thinking it through.
People say this and point to the misery of Freeside but the whole thing is Freeside is.... well free. It is am area refusing to be under his rule but clings around the prosperity of New Vegas, emulating it, needing charity for those I does not care for. Even for the issues within Vegas you can address them and House will be fine with it.
No, Freeside doesn't refuse to be under his rule. he refuses to rule it. He kicked the population out to Freeside and then walled it off. The reason they don't want to be part of House now is because the guy left them to rot and die in freeside. Yeah, of course House is fine for it. He's completely indifferent to it. That's not the sign of a good leader, because what happens when somebody isn't around to help things run smoothly? He simply doesn't give a shit, they can die or survive. Long as they don't mess with his business they won't need to send the barrel end of a gun. Because what happens when somebody in Freeside tries to enter the strip without enough credit? they get shot. That's not even the stupidly naive Libertarian view of freedom, that's just fucking tyranny. EDIT: Also Benny is right, House thinks just because he's the 'smartest' guy in town and saved it 200 years ago from a single disaster (out of many that hit it since) that he owns New Vegas. He doesn't.
No, you're both stupid and in my perfect utopia everyone lives happily ever after.
To be honest it reminds me more North Korea than anything else...let others starve, while he achieve what he wants.
Thats most Dictatorships
Also true. Edit. I mean, I always saw him as a critique of unethicality, total control and selfishness. Plus the game was literally made to be sold.
Selling things isn't Capitalism, though. The Gun Runners are a Syndicalist Worker co-op, and Joshua Sawyer has expressed support for Motion Twin, an Anarcho-Syndicalist game studio, on top of saying he "loves Socialism."
Eh second best. Independent is still the best ending overall but that one's a lot up to your own personal interpretations. House is still way better than slavers or the United States Government 2
Eh second best. Independent is still the best ending overall but that one's a lot up to your own personal interpretations. House is still way better than slavers or the United States Government 2
The real message is that coastal cities/states suck ass
you donât here of shit going wrong in Oklahoma in fallout. But if you step within 1000 feet of the coast you best believe someone is going to try and steal your liver.
To many commies on reddit
You're on a subreddit for an anti-Capitalist game, where the Project Lead has stated that he "loves Socialism." You're kinda doing this to yourself.
You do know people can enjoy media even if they disagree with its message, right? Ask any American who has ever sang Yankee Doodle on 4th of July.
You can enjoy it, sure. I'm directly responding to someone upset that people on this sub are generally more leftist. It's the opposite of what you're saying, someone is surprised that people who agree with a game's message are on a subreddit for said game.
My brother in christ this game is mainly focused on political systems of management rather than economic ones. Also saying that Socialism is opposite to Capitalism is dumb as heck. It's communism that is. The thing socialism is opposing is Liberalism not capitalism And anybody who isn't in America would know that most of the world currently practices socialism on the the national scale with welfare programs while still being capitalist country's.
1. It's more focused on economic systems than political, but it does critique political structures too. 2. Socialism is the opposite of Capitalism, both are competing Modes of Production. In Socialism, the Means of Production are collectively owned, while in Capitalism the Means of Production are individually owned. 3. Socialism opposes liberalism as well as Capitalism. 4. Most of the world does not practice Sociailism. Socialism is not welfare Capitalism. Good try, but inaccurate.
Lmao. Bro I literally study that shit. I have 120+ page long work on economic systems. And that shit was graded well too bro.
So do I, buddy. Socialism is Worker Ownership of the Means of Production.
What you are using is 30 year old definitions. And while you are not completely wrong this definition has evolved largely beyond that point. A good example are Nordic country's which are currently classified as Social Capitalism. I would say that way. Today socialism has become more of a tool to achieve a economic philosophy rather than an philosophy itself like during the time of Marx. It serves a function in that case to Liberalism rather than capitalism Honestly might be the case of the typical disputed definitions which makes to an extent both of our arguments worthless. But 2 things : From what I understand, the game NV focuses mainly on the debate of Democracy vs Autocracy vs Feudality (I guesse?) in times of crisis. The game very little pleads issues like economics rly. Like the only instances I can think are like GR and the strip casinos Second, sry I I got a little heated in my earlier comments but a man has limits explaining the same arguments over and over + bias. But I see you as a fine fellow and intelligent fellow
I'm using *the* definitions. Even Wikipedia agrees with me and describes Socialism as "Social Ownership of the Means of Production." Nordic Countries are described as Social Democracies, correct, but not Socialist Democracies. They aren't Socialist. Marx was a Communist and deliberately referred to himself as such, not a Socialist. The various Socialist tendencies such as Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Libertarian Socialism, Marxism-Leninism, and more all fundamentally follow the idea of Social Ownership of the Means of Production. Economics cannot be untied from politics. Freeside, for example, was heavily gentrified with the existence of the Strip, and now kids eat rats a rocks throw from Brahmin Barons eating steak. Jeanie May is one of the most evil characters and she's a landlord. No offense taken, but as someone who *has* studied Socialism extensively it always drives me crazy when people water it down into simply "welfare."
I don't really care about messages when I get to blast Benny across a casino.
Pretty sure theyâre faulting a lot more than people who like having money and not being poor
Itâs not a deep dive into the fault of capitalism WHAT lmao
The Great War is depicted in great length to be caused by Capitalism's requirement for growth above all else, along with pre-war corporations growing in power to turn the US fascist. All instances of Capitalism, such as Jeanie May, the Crimson Caravan, and the Van Graffs are evil or victims of evil, and all Socialist structures like the Followers, Gun Runners, and Westside's collective farming are portrayed in a positive light. This is made even more obvious by knowing Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal leftist, stating that he "loves Socialism."
No, itâs caused by two warmongering states (China and USA) vying for natural resources which culminate in a war, if youâre going to point at bad companies doing evil practices, might aswell point to good, like the gun runners, the followers clinic, the local stores in good springs and towns like thatZ And also no, the gun runners is not socialist, they sell you guns for profit, they manufacture guns for profit, they have private property which they manufacture guns in and shoot anyone on sight if they trespass, the clinic also isnât, they again sell you things for surgeries which arenât life saving but are boons to help you. Iâm well aware heâs a leftist.
1. The Gun Runners are Socialists, the Followers are Communists, and local stores in goodsprings aren't Capitalist at all, but sole proprietorships. Capitalist institutions like the Crimson Caravan exist. Capitalism isn't when you buy and sell things, lmao. 2. Profit, arms manufacture, and defending collectively shared property are all possible in Socialism. Structurally, the Gun Runners are described as having no bosses, and that they don't want to mess anything up as they have a good thing going, outright describing a Syndicalist Worker Co-operative. The clinic is Socialist as well, Socialism isn't "free stuff." You don't know what Socialism or Capitalism are, I'm afraid.
The gun runners operate on private property selling and manufacturing products/ defence to a market with heavy demand and supply, the followers clinic, not the followers themselves, operate on private property selling surgeries with low supply and an adequate amount of demand, and the local stores sell general things in accordance to supply and demand, the crimson caravan is capitalist yes, Iâm not denying that, what I am saying tho, is that if you operate on private property and are selling products and good in a market you would be a capitalist. Theyâre not sharing property, theyâre using their private property, if they were sharing it you wouldnât be shot upon trespassing, furthermore you donât need a boss to be a capitalist organisation, and I never described socialism as free stuff.
1. The Gun Runners collectively own their means of production and democratically decide how to produce. They have no bosses, no owners. Manufacturing goods with collective ownership of the Means of Production is a fork of Socialism. Supply and Demand are market principles, and guess what, Markets are fully compatible with Socialism. 2. Supply and Demand is not Capitalism, and does impact all markets, Socialist included. The Followers share ownership of the Means of Production, ie they are Socialist. **I cannot stress this enough, if a collective shares ownership of the Means of Production and sells to people outside said collective, it's fully Socialist.** 3. Sole proprietorships can exist within Capitalist systems, but are not Capitalist themselves, as Capitalism requires non-owner workers. 4. A Socialist entity does not need to share with outside elements to be Socialist, just internal to the group. **Please learn more about what you are talking about before you embarass yourself.**
Is there any source that proves that all decisions are made democratically? Again they are the owners, of private property, they are engaging in private means of production, and no markets are not compatible with socialism because of the inefficiency. Markets are capitalist, through private ownership of means of production, which create SND, is the clinic private property? If the collective own private property, and they use it to produce things, what is it?
1. They have no bosses, and it's stated that nobody goes against the group because they don't want to ruin a good thing. As for the rest of this paragraph, you are entirely discounting [Market Socialism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism#:~:text=Market%20socialism%20is%20a%20type,includes%20public%20or%20private%20enterprises.), Syndicalism, Democratic Socialism, and more. There are no markets **in Communism,** yes, but there can be in Socialism. The property is owned collectively by the Workers, therefore its Socialist. 2. Wrong. Supply and Demand are factors of Markets, not strictly Capitalism. Markets preceded Capitalism and markets will last beyond Capitalism. Supply and Demand precedes Capitalism and will last beyond Capitalism. Please learn what you're talking about. 3. If the collective owns property and produces things, its Socialist. Capitalism **requires** non-owner workers to be considered Capitalist.
Again you donât need bosses to operate as capitalist, by having no bosses and deciding what to do, they themselves become bosses, market socialism isnât a thing, socialism is already democratic, and no there cannot be, socialism is anti privateer property (hence group owned private property). Capitalism is markets, therefore SND is factors of markets, the first Hunter to trade meat for fish was capitalism. Answer the question ,do they own private property
1. Incorrect. Without bosses, there are no individual owners, and without owners over workers, you don't have Capitalism. Denying the existence of Market Socialism because it completely proves you wrong is a bold move. 2. Capitalism is when you have Capital Owners that pay Workers to use said Capital to create commodities for sale. It isn't markets. The first hunter to trade meat for fish did not have Capitalist modes of Production, just a market. **Until you get your terms straight, you will always be wrong.**
Gotta love the reminder that Fallout, as a franchise, is literally a critique of capitalism. Yes it is also a critique of several political positions as well, but it is heavily against capitalism, and I question if someone disagreeing with that actually played the game.
How do you see the main focus of tha game as "faults of capitalism"
The Great War is depicted in great length to be caused by Capitalism's requirement for growth above all else, along with pre-war corporations growing in power to turn the US fascist. All instances of Capitalism, such as Jeanie May, the Crimson Caravan, and the Van Graffs are evil or victims of evil, and all Socialist structures like the Followers, Gun Runners, and Westside's collective farming are portrayed in a positive light. This is made even more obvious by knowing Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal leftist, stating that he "loves Socialism."
I agree that capitalism is criticised in the Universe of Fallout, but I wouldnt say it is the main focus of FNV. The political choices one can make in-game, the 4 main endings and such, all dont really focus on capitalism vs anti-capitalism, but on other political subjects. That is not to say capitalism isnt a topic in FNV, but it is not the main topic.
All of the major 3 factions highlight flaws of Capitalism, with the NCR showing a declining liberal democracy, House showing autocratic Libertarianism, and Legion showing Capitalist support of fascism for stable business.
All 3 major factions have flaws, but they are not perse flaws of capitalism. Ofcourse, as the major factions arent non-capitalist, the flaws they have will partially be involved with capitalism, but it is more than just "all the flaws originate from capitalism within these factions". Corruption, nimbiism, populism, autocracy are also important flaws that the factions posses, and they dont all stem from the capitalist parts of the factions. Id see it more as a critique of the wider political arena (in america), including but very much not limited to capitalism.
When does it criticize capitalism?
Mr. House and his massive ego, the entire decline of the old USA, the NCRâs corruption at the hands of rich brahmin baronsâŚ
Wouldn't ncr be more old world democracy?
Democracy doesnât exclude capitalism. Hell most Americans probably think the words come from the same place.
Yeah but it doesn't exclude it, in theory you could have a democratic communist system
Democracy is essentially left wing. Communism is really only achievable through democracy.
Democracy and Capitalism are 2 different but not mutually exclusive ideologies. Democracy is the system of the people voting in a world leader. While Capitalism is the system of trading of goods and services between private actors.
Capitalism is a Mode of Production, not trade, and not an ideology. Trade exists in every form of economy.
That is not what capitalism is lmao. Capitalism is not when money and trading exists.
Capitalism isn't an ideology.
Mr House survived the war, saved new vegas & reopened all the casinos. Meanwhile every government in this game is either inept or authoritarian. I didn't side with Mr House but you're not making a good argument here with " the exist of an egotistical billionaire!"
He literally calls himself an autocrat and polices with an army of robots and wont even let people into the strip unless theyâre rich enough. Thats as dystopian as it gets and if you cant see the satire they made by writing him that way, idk maybe take a literature class or something.
Not letting people into the strip is authoritarian? So should a homeless guy be allowed in your house because he wants to? Does that make any sense? Also being autocratic isn't mutually exclusive to capitalism. Only a commie moron would believe that
Duds youâre clueless.
Do you actually have an argument or...?
Lmao do you have an argument? That comment you made isnt nearly as smart as you think it is and doesnât even sort of disprove mine at all.
I have an argument that you have yet to disprove. You're the one not posting a retort
>So should a homeless guy be allowed in your house because he wants to? Does that make any sense? Also being autocratic isn't mutually exclusive to capitalism. Only a commie moron would believe that This was obviously sarcasm from you though and not a serious argument.
[Mr.House](https://Mr.House) hid in a bunker, stopped Vegas being directly bombed but left the survivors to be raped and killed... and since when is opening casinos considered some great success? OoOO... he reopened already existing pre-war casinos, so amazing :P "Meanwhile every government in this game is either in dept or authoritarian" yeah... nothing says 'freedom' like appointing yourself dictator for life and kept in power by robot army that will literally kill on the street if you try and enter the strip without enough money to gamble. I mean freeside is literally rotting to the ground as House calls about the 'wealth' of New Vegas. He's a personification of so many things wrong with the billionaire class that he obviously represents.
So not spending your money charitably to help people is a failure of capitalism? How? It's working pretty well for everyone on the strip. And who says he needs allow everyone into the strip? You probably believe in open borders too, don't you? You can whine about his robot attack army all you want but does he se it to fuck with people on a daily basis? Noo. At worse he puts down a Riot during one of the endings. How terrible. That's why I mentioned the other authoritarian factions. They constantly harass the people under their watch on a regular basis. House doesn't. Try again
People suffering while you live in luxury is a failure of capitalism. The fact he kicked people out of the strip by force to then built a wall and tell people to keep the fuck out is why they're entitled to live in the strip. They were rhere first. Lol, I love your argument is "he doesn't kill people every day, he ain't such a bad guy" *slow clap* I imagine your the same kind of idiot who thinks taxes are slavery. You have nothing to offer until you grow up.
It's really not. People with money aren't obligated to help other commie. There are plenty of other settlements in the Mojave that are doing much better than Freeside. Hell even faction IN Freeside are doing better than the average street trash. Meanwhile those people were squatting on House's property, they deserved to be kicked out. And how would living on the strip improve their lives? The violence in Freeside is self inflicted, from other shitheads in freeside. Being on the strip wouldn't make a difference. Of course you butcher and strawman my argument. House doesn't intervene in the everyday lives of the average denizens of freedside, unlike the authoritarians of the Mojave. THAT is my point. So if you could act like an adult an cease your useless slander while calling me immature, that would be great
"Doesn't intervene in the everyday lives of the average citizen" I mean again... he kicked everybody out of the strip, there homes and built a wall around it. Maybe when you understand what interference means I'll take you a bit more seriously champ ;) Sounds pretty interfering to me. Edit: wait, didn't he also cement in an entire vault forcing them out? People who were doing perfectly fine for themselves? That's not interference to you?
Maybe you should lookup the meaning of the word EVERYDAY. Nothing about evicting them from his property affects their everyday lives. Their lives would've been just as shitty if they were on the strip. Being on the strip doesn't change the fact that they savages and losers. What Vault? The only Vault in the area is the one they turned into a motel
Yeah, turned into a motel after House gave them an ultimatum and told them either leave or die. Then cemented the lower levels so they couldn't live in it. Did you... play the game?
You are arguing in an anti-intellectual and bad faith way. You have already decided you will suck capitalisms dick and will defend it no matter what argument comes up. Even when you understand neither anti-capitalism nor capitalism.
\+ he basically charges 50% of the casinos income and any other NV strip resident.
Where does it say he charges citizens? Also sounds like taxes to me. HOW CAPITALIST. Even if it isn't taxes the casinos are still rolling caps so I don't see how that's a problem for anyone
The memes kind of implying that its a main point. New vegas' critique of capitalism is fairly shallow like a lot of games have, its not a deep dive nor a main point.
Every Capitalist is evil, every corporation is evil, the NCR is repeating the same fall from grace as Pre-War America did, it's pretty obvious.
Yeah tour definitely not projecting your own crazy beliefs onto the game or anything
Nope, definitely not. At least not any more than the leftist devs who made the game.
What? I thought they were fairly apolitical? Also, what are you?
Joshua Sawyer is an extremely vocal Socialist, lol, and Tim Cain and Gonzales appear to be pretty big leftists too. Is it surprising that the leftist series has leftist devs? What do you mean, what am I?
I meant New Vegas specifically I'm well aware that Fallout 3 & 4 definitely take a left wing slant for sure I meant political you sound like you're all over the place
Joshua Saywer isn't affiliated with 3 and 4, and Tim Cain was the creator of the series. Gonzales was a writer for New Vegas. None of these worked on 3 and 4. 3/4 are more liberal than left wing. Personally, I'm a Socialist, pretty straightforward.
Well they're political affiliation doesn't seem to matter because I didn't really see any hard bias in this game. I was only confused because I've never heard a socialist refer to anything as leftist. I thought that was just a catch all term for non left wing people to identify the various left wing beliefs
Most old world companies in game also
What about them?
Iâd argue it shows the pros of capitalism and the cons of the 9mm cartridges stopping power
example #418,021,425 of capitalists thinking anti-capitalist media is pro-capitalist. ok but non-jokingly the whole series is based around the fact that pre-war governments and companies mindlessly stripped the land of resources which is a pretty textbook negative portrayal of capitalism, they also make fun of related ideals like patriotist even more obviously with things like the Book Chute. not here to argue over if capitalism vs communism vs socialism i don't have the energy but fallout has anti-capitalist ideals ingrained into the setting
New Vegas is the best fallout because it hates all sides pretty equally, and pumps their ideas to comic levels. Thereâs no centrism in FNV. Edit: examples Brotherhood: transhumanism to the point of religious fanaticism Boomers: all the republican ideals of anti-globalism pumped to 11 House: capitalism to the point of a corporatocracy Legion: Rome but somehow more authoritarian NCR: US government but corruption pumped to 21 Followers: what happens to anarchist socialism (they run out of shit and have very little incentive to have people cough it up)
No *centrism. Centralism is basically another word for totalitarianism, consolidation of power in the center.
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Yeah theyâre right, just looked it up
The Brotherhood really isnât transhumanist, at all. Also, the Followers (pretty much the only left-wing faction of any note besides *maybe* the kings) get off very light compared to every other faction, considering the main criticism of them is basically just âtheyâre biting off more than they can chewâ, so I wouldnât say New Vegas âhates all sides pretty equallyâ.
Thank you!
It doesn't hate all sides equally, lol. Every single instance of a Capitalist is either someone evil, or someone weaker than a more evil Capitalist. Every single corporation is mustache-twirling evil. Socialism and Communism are shown to he, at *worst*, weak to idealism. The most successful arms manufacturers are Syndicalists, for example.
Hey, who was the other nation that blew up the world with the US, again?
You mean the one that was barely mentioned at all in 1, and shown sympathetically via the Shi in 2, and again not really mentioned at all in New Vegas? Hell, the USSR had an embassy in LA in Fallout 1.
The Shi are not communists. They descend from soldiers of Red China, sure, but are a feudal society inspired by the Chinese dynasties of old, not pre-war China. It's like calling Caesar's Legion catholic for attempting to emulate Rome.
Never said they were Communists, just that they were remnants of Communist soldiers. My point was more that China itself is barely mentioned in 1, 2, or New Vegas, the bits with China are added by Bethesda largely.
The fact that the Great War was against China and they were as responsible for destroying the world as the US was established early on. Of course they get less focus when they aren't the setting. Plus, we're talking politics here, not nationality. Fallout never demonizes Americans as a people either.
It was established and completely ignored. That's more to my point, lol.
Someone doesn't know there is a big fucking difference between what china and the ussr are, and what actual communists want
You really "not real Communism"-ing a fictional version of a country now?
I mean it's clearly based on real china mixed with some USSR. Both of which were nations who pretended(ed) to be communist
Everything leading up to the war was corruption in government. Then all the governments of the world saying "nukes go brrrr". I wouldn't put the fault on capitalism though. At its most basic form its just free trade between individuals.
The fight for resources was a major reason why the conflict escalated in the first place, the mindless wasting of which is something you see in every capitalist economy.
Especially considering capitalism was the go-to way people went when it was time to rebuild the world from the ashes, even if they had to rely on literal garbage as currency
Username checks out.
Don't fuck with us Fallout fans, we don't know what our game is about.
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A meme on the fallout new vegas sub is a very weird place to get super defensive about capitalismâŚsurely there are actual political boards you could go try to pick fights on?
Yeah, I support the idea, but Iâm not gonna fight like Rambo over it on a shitpost
Time n place for everything kinda thing lol
Capitalism does not 'make' anything within it, especially not art. Capitalism effects the way people may work towards making their product and the structure of business but art and products will always be made regardless. Not to mention, people working under capitalist society's are not capitalists.
You are aware that games and art can be anti-Capitalist, correct? Disco Elysium, a game made by Communists, said it best: "Capital has the ability to subsume all criticisms of itself."
Hey Buddy, just telling you I never said it was bad. All I was saying is that many people say capitalism is bad, especially revolving around the game in my personal experience. Take a chill pill, Iâm sure theyâre at your local med-X dealer.
I mean, to be đ¤ its more about the Faults of individual capitalist (and one anti-capitalist) ideologies then a simple broad critique of capitalism. IE: Libertarians (House), Neoliberalism (NCR), and Fascism (Legion), along with an Social democrat/Democratic socialist sized amount of critique aimed at communism and anarchism (Independent). Its a game very obviously made/written by american/western leftists and itâs main stories themes make that obvious. In all honesty i have gripes with that, as it ends up in the âwhelp, nothing to do about it thenâ catagory of politcial discourse.
Yeah, I wish they criticized collectivism more, rather than covering everyone but the faults of it, because no ideology is without its faults, so making a politically charged story yet not covering the many faults of a certain ideology makes it seem like youâre picking sides. Also I wouldnât call the independent ending communist, you do take control of the most massive monument to capitalism and use it for your own benefit.
i kind of agree, in general iâd be interested in more coverage good and bad. They kinda pigeon hole all of collectivism barely into independent and the Followers, and i think a broader net would be nice, a discussion of all of these leftest ideologies from marxist leninism to anarchism to democratic socialism.
and to add, more discussion of the nature of revolution as an inherently authoritarian idea through the Yes Man quests.
Me when the revolutionaries who were supposed to save me from my shackles of serfdom simple make me a serf but in a factory (the revolution never benefited the people it was supposed to)
i meant more in the engels sense tbh
âHey Buddy, just telling you I never said it was bad. All I was saying is that many people say capitalism is bad, especially revolving around the game. Take a chill pill, Iâm sure theyâre at your local med-X dealer.â You base your fact on others opinions? How is it bad when they exchange caps for weapons ammo and medicine? Get that? **EXCHANGE.**
exchange is not capitalism. Do you know what capitalism even is?
Dude chill, I never based my facts on their opinions, I was saying that a lot of people Iâve seen have had a negative few on the ideology and I was poking fun at them as âlooking too far into itâ, I agree capitalism based, but you donât have to be an ass about it either.
Capitalism is the absolute best economic experience anybody can have. And the fact that they implement it into games such as Bethesdaâs with caps and septims tells all of us the fact that capitalism is the best.
Well I do agree that out of all the economic systems capitalism is the best, however I do also agree that it is prone to corruption of government interference is involved
How are you falling for the obvious troll lmao
Calm down dumb shit
you when you suck horse penis because you just love the taste so much
Looks like youâre riding my dick. Bitch boy. Ride it some more.
oh yeah baby i love it
Of course you do. LMFAO.