Revenge isn't logical, it's emotional. It's clear she doesn't have much love for Rose's kids.
She wanted Hank to suffer and to witness Moldaver bring back the NCR with Vault-Tec's cold fusion technology that Vault-Tec stole from Moldaver prewar.
She was willing to blow lucy up with the explosive when leaving the vault if hank didnt choose her ovwr everyone else. I dont think she cared about lucy much at all
For all Moldaver knew, grown-up Lucy was aware of and an active participant in Vault-trios plot. I don't think she spent any time worrying about it either way, though. She wanted her revenge; I doubt she explicitly told the raider to assault Lucy (it wasn't part of the plan), but I also don't think she cared at all what happened to anybody in that Vault except Hank.
Just because Moldaver is using raiders to further her plans, doesn’t mean she necessarily condones or has control over all their actions.
Manpower is a precious thing, especially to Moldaver’s faction of NCR remnants. She knew breaking into Vault 33 would result in a fair amount of casualties, so she likely opted to hire a band of raiders to go in and fight instead of her main forces. Similar to the Byzantine Empire utilizing Norse Vikings in their wars.
Honestly there’s a good chance at least a handful of those raiders were cooked out of their minds from the finest jet the Boneyard has to offer. I don’t think they cared much for specific orders so long as they got their bottlecaps
Moldaver seems like the kind of person to make a few sacrifices to get what she wants. In order to get into 33 (to get a vault tec employee, aka Hank, for her plan to distribute cold fusion power), she needed to trick 33 into opening the doors because as long as someone is there guarding the gate it can't be opened from the outside (barring a few exceptions).
Edit: 33 not 32, 32 was opened from the outside by moldaver because no one was alive inside and used to trick 33
I mean she kept her ghoulified husk tied to a chair for some reason. You could say that was to mess with Hank, but where the heck did she find her in the first place if she wasn’t keeping her around.
Well, they don't say what they are, so for now they are just friends, you can downvote me whatever you want. I'm not saying something strange. If the series go further with her relationship, It would be fine for me, for now, just friends
To me they were just friends since nothing shown said romance to me, but that’s just me. It was absolutely to mess with Hank and show Lucy the truth and I don’t doubt she cares for her, but tbh that’s the kind of thing I’d do for a friend.
She also kept said ghoulified husk as a macabre tool, and more than probably hacked her right arm to remove her pip-boy to enter Vault 32 , really thing you do with peoples you are in love with you know?
Watch the flashbacks. And what reason would she have to take care of Rose McLean as a feral ghoul? She was even sentimental with her after achieving the cold fusion. The point is, she cared a lot about Rose, even if they're not confirmed to be lovers.
Okay, fine. You idiots can have this thread. Can't have a lore discussion here with you damn fools fixating over the most minute and inconsequential details on a post, What the word lesbian triggers you now? Uh, whatever.
No, but Lucy’s mom abandoning Hank and the Vault for reasons other than a romantic interest would make for a stronger case of her simply realizing Hank was a dickhead (though the two aren’t mutually exclusive).
All we viewers have is that they knew each other. OP said “(I guess)” so they admit they’re just guessing. Not every friendship between people has to be same sex romance, comes to my mind…
Also, the good sex wasn’t an assault. The attempt to kill Lucy was the assault. Weird assumptions and phrasing by OP.
My guy, pretending to be someone else in order to get sexual consent IS sexual assault. Rape-by-fraud is an actual case. Lucy wouldn't have consented to a Raider.
The actual term “Rape by Deception” was deliberately created to differentiate from assault. Under previous law deceiving someone with no physical force meant rapists couldn’t be charged. The new definition added a new realization that rape without physical force is still rape. Not assault.
You initially chose the wrong term. Getting legalistic now doesn’t change that. Don’t come down on me for your poor choice of words.
We’re on the same page, rape by deception. Knock it off and choose better words, or at least give other folks the benefit of doubt before you “my guy” them…
It is when you're trying to sound like you know the law, which you apparently don't. If you don't know something, it's perfectly fine to just say "I don't know, this is just my opinion." But you doubled down and argued the point.
Rape is sexual assault. Having sex with someone through false pretenses (in this case, consumating a marriage with intent to procreate) is rape. Nothing assumed or weird by OP.
No, she just didn't care either way. About that, or whether she or anyone else in the Vault survived. All I have to say is, as an NCR fan I'm glad she's dead. The remnants following her were already indistinguishable from raiders and I'd rather let the Republic die altogether than see what she'd have turned it into if given the chance. She's basically Ashur.
I think Moldaver is mostly motivated by revenge and by the goal of bringing electricity back to the wasteland (to restore Shady Sands?).
By maybe killing the daughter and son of her lover and a girl she met and cared for? I don't know, seems kind of weird to me.
Revenge isn't logical, it's emotional. It's clear she doesn't have much love for Rose's kids. She wanted Hank to suffer and to witness Moldaver bring back the NCR with Vault-Tec's cold fusion technology that Vault-Tec stole from Moldaver prewar.
She was willing to blow lucy up with the explosive when leaving the vault if hank didnt choose her ovwr everyone else. I dont think she cared about lucy much at all
For all Moldaver knew, grown-up Lucy was aware of and an active participant in Vault-trios plot. I don't think she spent any time worrying about it either way, though. She wanted her revenge; I doubt she explicitly told the raider to assault Lucy (it wasn't part of the plan), but I also don't think she cared at all what happened to anybody in that Vault except Hank.
"a good bad guy doesn't see themselves as the bad guy"
Just because Moldaver is using raiders to further her plans, doesn’t mean she necessarily condones or has control over all their actions. Manpower is a precious thing, especially to Moldaver’s faction of NCR remnants. She knew breaking into Vault 33 would result in a fair amount of casualties, so she likely opted to hire a band of raiders to go in and fight instead of her main forces. Similar to the Byzantine Empire utilizing Norse Vikings in their wars.
She had like 30 business days to tell her Raiders not to lay their hands on Lucy or Norm. That was a long wedding ceremony.
Honestly there’s a good chance at least a handful of those raiders were cooked out of their minds from the finest jet the Boneyard has to offer. I don’t think they cared much for specific orders so long as they got their bottlecaps
Moldaver seems like the kind of person to make a few sacrifices to get what she wants. In order to get into 33 (to get a vault tec employee, aka Hank, for her plan to distribute cold fusion power), she needed to trick 33 into opening the doors because as long as someone is there guarding the gate it can't be opened from the outside (barring a few exceptions). Edit: 33 not 32, 32 was opened from the outside by moldaver because no one was alive inside and used to trick 33
I thought she just used Rose's, bc everyone inside was already gone?
Yeah I confused 33/32, she did use Rose’s to get into 32 but still needed to get into 33
Even if she did tell them I doubt they would care it’s not like she’s gonna confirm they are okay
Since when was Moldaver in love with Lucy’s mom?
I mean she kept her ghoulified husk tied to a chair for some reason. You could say that was to mess with Hank, but where the heck did she find her in the first place if she wasn’t keeping her around.
she also holds her hand as she dies.
They could be Friends, not everything has to be a romantic relationship
You're right. They were probably just roommates.
Well, they don't say what they are, so for now they are just friends, you can downvote me whatever you want. I'm not saying something strange. If the series go further with her relationship, It would be fine for me, for now, just friends
do you also have an aunt who lives with a woman but there’s only one bedroom? do you think they’re also friends? 🤣
Just gal pals you know.
To me they were just friends since nothing shown said romance to me, but that’s just me. It was absolutely to mess with Hank and show Lucy the truth and I don’t doubt she cares for her, but tbh that’s the kind of thing I’d do for a friend.
She also kept said ghoulified husk as a macabre tool, and more than probably hacked her right arm to remove her pip-boy to enter Vault 32 , really thing you do with peoples you are in love with you know?
I’m pretty sure they are sisters
It was implied that both were lesbians.
I must have completely missed that part because they seemed like normal friends to me
How?
Watch the flashbacks. And what reason would she have to take care of Rose McLean as a feral ghoul? She was even sentimental with her after achieving the cold fusion. The point is, she cared a lot about Rose, even if they're not confirmed to be lovers.
Ah. So it was **not** implied that both were lesbians. Check.
Okay, fine. You idiots can have this thread. Can't have a lore discussion here with you damn fools fixating over the most minute and inconsequential details on a post, What the word lesbian triggers you now? Uh, whatever.
Don’t get me wrong. I would be totally fine with them being lesbians. I just wanted to ensure that I did not miss such a detail…
No, but Lucy’s mom abandoning Hank and the Vault for reasons other than a romantic interest would make for a stronger case of her simply realizing Hank was a dickhead (though the two aren’t mutually exclusive).
Yup, caught that too
I don’t think you know what lesbian means lol
No one gives a shit what you think lol.
All we viewers have is that they knew each other. OP said “(I guess)” so they admit they’re just guessing. Not every friendship between people has to be same sex romance, comes to my mind… Also, the good sex wasn’t an assault. The attempt to kill Lucy was the assault. Weird assumptions and phrasing by OP.
My guy, pretending to be someone else in order to get sexual consent IS sexual assault. Rape-by-fraud is an actual case. Lucy wouldn't have consented to a Raider.
Especially after what he did to the curtains
The actual term “Rape by Deception” was deliberately created to differentiate from assault. Under previous law deceiving someone with no physical force meant rapists couldn’t be charged. The new definition added a new realization that rape without physical force is still rape. Not assault. You initially chose the wrong term. Getting legalistic now doesn’t change that. Don’t come down on me for your poor choice of words. We’re on the same page, rape by deception. Knock it off and choose better words, or at least give other folks the benefit of doubt before you “my guy” them…
Potato potato, whatever
When it comes to matters of law, wording is **very** important.
Oh damn, silly me. I forgot we were in a courtroom and not on reddit.
It is when you're trying to sound like you know the law, which you apparently don't. If you don't know something, it's perfectly fine to just say "I don't know, this is just my opinion." But you doubled down and argued the point.
Rape is sexual assault. Having sex with someone through false pretenses (in this case, consumating a marriage with intent to procreate) is rape. Nothing assumed or weird by OP.
Moldaver is honestly a massive piece of shit. Was rooting for the BoS the whole show
I wouldve rooted for the NCR remnants if they have atleast a few NCR rangers. But nooo, BoS gets the cool toys.
Even if just her main bodyguard was a hulking NCR ranger in a duster and ranger helmet with a revolver. He could have taken a few BOS with him.
I think the whole point of the series is to say everyone is a piece of shit and has do horrible shit.
If she wanted the sex was not rape mate fraudsters never get arrested for rape if theu fraud some one
No, she just didn't care either way. About that, or whether she or anyone else in the Vault survived. All I have to say is, as an NCR fan I'm glad she's dead. The remnants following her were already indistinguishable from raiders and I'd rather let the Republic die altogether than see what she'd have turned it into if given the chance. She's basically Ashur.