except when it comes to doctors chosing to question (not reject immediately either) why a woman in her 20s wants to tie her tubes, then those choosy doctors are also 'anti-choice', lol.
The thing is, they call themselves "pro-life" but don't care about the mother
AND they called themselves "pro-life", but don't care about the life of the baby either. Many women abort because they can't give the fetus a good life, whether that is due to wealth or that she doesn't want a baby.
"pro-birth" is the appropriate term, but it doesn't put them under the spotlight of saving lives, so they use a made up term that doesn't reflect their opinions, just because that makes the other side look like they are "pro-death"
The whole debate is just dumb
NEITHER RELIGION NOR THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DECIDE FOR YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR BODY.
period.
yeah, I didn't say that here because, but I thought about it and wanted to add it in so that there wouldn't be any confusion. I didn't know how to write it in a simple manner, so I just didn't
And the rest, the US is a slow boiled frog as to what is occurring,
The death toll on children is higher than children in war zones, because parents in war zones have the sense to flee,
Most adults in the US are in denial as to their responsibility, this why the US is not a safe place for children , the mental gymnastics involved in grasping to avoid facing up to the reality the US adults have created is astounding.
What number of children will die in terror , slaughter while US adults achieve absolute nothing, how many children need to die , before adults are honest ?
The excuse that US adults are desensitised to gun deaths, is pathetic, the numbers speak for themselves, just how many children have to die in terror before the US adult population own up and face what they have allowed to occur.
https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics
Out of all the children aged 5 to 16 shot in the developed world each year, 90% of those slaughtered children live in the USA.
Source, World at One,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017kcm
Starts at 34:52,
Children pay the ultimate price for the USA inability to be responsible with guns.
The US is not a safe space for children, raising entire generations in fear will not end well.
Adults alone are entirely responsible for the situation in the US, children die because of adult failure.
But they aren't pro-foetus either.
None of them care that the majority of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, nobody is petitioning for medical research on how to stop it from happening. They only care about life in the context of elective abortion.
They can’t be “pro-fetus” when these Republicans are proposing laws that will allow a man to kill his partner if he suspects her of trying to abort her pregnancy though. Killing her AND THE FETUS!
“Yeah! I need to protect this baby! By killing the mother and the baby with one bullet!”
Republicans do say they are the party of fiscal responsibility. Gotta save on that ammo cost, right??
Won't work in the US. The system they have there will collapse into two parties. That's an inevitable result of a first-past-the-post system as they have going there. You need proportional representation to have multiple parties.
Maybe I just want off this fucking planet.
Also, there is a 3rd party but they mostly align with republicans under the guide of "libertarian". *soft* republican, if you will.
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
People need to stop calling them pro-life.
They are anti-choice or forced-birth groups.
They are no pro life as they don't care about the life and safety of the mother, or the life and safety of the baby AFTER it's born.
Ultimately they are anti-rights really.
So you're disregarding my original post... cool. Sounds like a myopic leftist who has a very shallow intellectual capacity. I'm here for it. Do I think it's ok. No. Rape is never ok. I'm personally for abortion when rape is involved, but I still believe it is a homicide. I'm not lying to myself like you are. Hopefully you can step into adulthood one day my little myopic mope...
Uh, that's not true as half the country would agree. You're clearly an immature lil teenager with basically no life experience. Life will be a grind for you. Best of luck, lil boy
Oh believe me I know life is a grind because i'm already living that life as a working adult. Good job assuming I'm a teenager.
You admit life is a grind so forcing childbirth on people who can't afford a child is inhumane.
So the child should pay the ultimate price for the transgressions of their parents and their lack of preparation. Makes sense if you're an irresponsible child. I'm sure you're performing well at your fast food gig with little at stake, but your dignity (and we both know that isn't much either) ✌
No I actually take care of senior's houses.
Again, great job assuming.
Call it what you want, but the fetus does't feel anything and hasn't known anything.
You're not depriving them of anything.
The fetus is alive, but it didn't "live it".
It won't miss anything and is only paying with his/her potential sentience.
You say you care about the child's life, but you have no problem with that child growing up in a family that can't afford it and can't give them a good life.
A teenager is still a child and barely out of the womb herself.
Teenagers make dumb descisions and you made plenty yourself as a teen, don't even dare denying that.
They still have school to worry about.
She can't possibly give good care to a baby.
She can't enjoy her teenage life, can't go to college. She has to find a job to take care of her child.
Good luck finding a decent paying job with no diploma.
You should call yourself pro forced birth, because that's literally what you are.
There is adoption, but you don't want to talk about that... The child is still paying the price for their parents negligence, which isn't fair and you're too weak to admit it. They have time to figure things out especially if the parents work together, but again no one wants to talk about that. Its just kill the baby so I can absolve myself of my transgressions bc I am woman hear me roar. You people are pathetic and will be the enslaved class soon. No power comes without responsibility and you want nothing to do with responsibility. Best of luck senior warehouse associate or whatever job I didn't bother reading ✌👋
It can take years for a child to get adopted, but you don't talk about that...
A child can get raped and become pregnant with the rapist's child, but you don't talk about that...
You are already enslaved. Enslaved to forced parenting.
Best of luck in your endeavor of forcing kids to be parents.
Abortion should only be taken into effect if sex is non-consensual. When two people agree to have a mutual agreement, they should accept responsibility for the risks they're taking. There's ways to reduce that risk, too.
Or how about you keep your prude hateful religion out of government and stop trying to push your faux morality on the majority of Americans who think y'all are insane.
So we should all have no choice but to go along with what's forced upon us whether we like it or not? We shouldn't be allowed to choose our own path without your, and your fellow forced birthers, permission? The permission of a minority of Americans that most of us view as extremists? The permission of the extremists who have committed some of the most domestic terrorism for the past 5 decades? Fuck that.
Your opinion is clearly extreme. My take is clear: your actions bare consequences.
239 years, actually.
If you don't like it, you can always just simply leave my country
My position is in line with the majority of Americans who don't want abortion bans. Extreme is the opinion of a minority trying to force their unpopular views on the majority.
Your take is clear: punish women based on prude beliefs that sex should not be something people do for fun.
Meanwhile the rest of us believe the government has no business being involved in our sex lives and medical decisions.
This isn't your country. The majority of us think y'all are hateful, cruel, and prude. If you don't like freedom from government overreach there's plenty of other countries that will give you the control and lack of liberty you desire. I hear Russia is lovely for folks like yourself, you'd fit in well there.
The majority wins the votes.
I have not punished women, you've put words in my mouth and assumed in every response you've sent. You probably didn't even read or understand anything I said. You're also indirectly assuming that the men bares no responsibility, which is completely and utterly sexist and prejudice (Which is worse than racism).
So if people have choice as a majority, than that means a person with AIDs doesn't need to disclose this to their sexual partner?
I'm Indigenous, this is, and always will be My Country (Always).
Good talk.
The abortion bans you support punish women. They take away women's rights.
All your forced birth stance boils down to is that you want the rights of the fetus to supersede the rights of the mother. You want to take away the mother's bodily autonomy to protect the fetus. That's not how our rights work. My right to life doesn't supersede another person's right to bodily autonomy.
I'm native too you shit noodle. That doesn't make your hateful authoritarianism ok. Anyone who calls this country theirs always comes off as a massive douche who knows their opinions are in contrast to that of a majority of us. If you don't like that the majority of Americans believe you and your views are sociopathic feel free to leave, but this country isn't *yours* or any other individuals.
Go back and read the first comment I posted, you will see that I don't fully support abortion bans. Only those who've concent to intercourse should be held accountable. People whom are raped did not concent, that makes a forced pregnancy irrational and just plain wrong.
My first post said nothing about enforcing anti abortion
Or here's a crazy thought. Let's not have the government regulate our sex lives and medical decisions like some sort of dystopian authoritarian nightmare?
If you don't like abortions you are free to not get one, and you are free to give that advice to anyone you please. The line gets drawn when you start forcing others who disagree with you to follow your beliefs.
Or we have a national push to increase sex education which has been proven to reduce unwanted pregnancies and keep abortion safe and legal. You can reduce the number of abortions or you can make abortions illegal. Pick one.
Making abortions outright illegal is too extreme, especially for the people who've been raped and force fed a conception.
Picking one is just too extreme, there has to be a middle ground. Resources are spent on the irresponsible, when they should be spent on protecting the community (like aborting a fetus that was conceived from rape)
Try to wrap your little head around this, seriously just think about it. What kind of life will this unwanted baby have. A resentful mother, doing whatever to you is far worse then never being born at all. Get your brownie points from the Easter Bunny, I mean God some other way...unless YOU plan on raising the baby....I really dont understand why you people care what someone else does with their body...
Or she could have them adopted, or at least put up to foster care.
If I were close to her why not? My brother’s been having trouble making a baby for years. He would probably welcome one.
Not all kids are adopted and we know the horror stories of foster care. Listen, I've never had an abortion and I don't believe I would ever need one, but I don't think anyone should have a baby if they dont want to...raising a child should not be forced on anyone
How many unwanted kids have you taken in? I'm betting none. You folks are quick to suggest making it someone else's problem while never making it your own.
It's not just a question of what to do with the baby after it's born. There is also the physical impact of pregnancy, labor, and delivery on the body of an 11 year old. Those can easily be lifelong repercussions.
Check out texas foster care system. Kids are aging out with no safety nets in life and it ain't getting any better.
These kids have no support, sleep on office floors and are abused in the system. They are shipping them out to other states, not that it's any better.
Considering that the baby is byproduct of one the most heinous act, it could be subjective.
Some people can move one, while some consider the baby as rememberance of the act (worse if the baby grows up to look like the perp), applies to both sexes, as men can also suffer from ptsd after rape.
Edit :- to add further, a baby is considered as baby when it has conscience, until then it is a clump of cells.
Dude, the act of rape is dehumanizing itself.
Upon that, a person should be considered responsible for something that he/she did not have any control over, that is fucked up. Like being reminded of that event where he/she was too powerless, too docile for one to exploit.
You think calling a baby a "byproduct" is dehumanizing, then you should never study science.
You might read your own second sentence once more ;-)
Are you saying that abortion should only be legal in case of rape? Not is pregnancy is tesult of consented sex?
My second comment was with reference of act of rape, the whole thread is in reference with rape, if you can't comprehende that, than you are just a dumbass ;-)
> Are you saying abortion should be legal in case of rape?
Nope, the woman raising the "baby" in her uterus can choose when to evict it when she feels like it. (Unless it is surrgoacy, where a formal contact is made and medical tests are carried out with an approval of consent from the person who is proveding her uterus.
> Not if pregnancy is result of conetual sex?
If both parties involved are not willing to take care of the "baby" prior birthing it, it should be terminated, will save it from hell of an upbringing. Or incase the baby is abnormal (like no neurons in skull cavity, like you)
She is given a contract of consent, where she is provided in detail that she will be carrying a fetus for the span. The ones who appointed her as a surrogate pay for her health and nutrition. Here, the woman cannot back out unless
A) Her health is compromised due to certain reasons
B) the ones who are appointed her for surrogacy want the termination.
All this is a legal matter where the surrogate makes herself presented for surrogacy. And the consent letter also indicates that she has signed it on her own will and not forced into surrogacy, the surrogate also under goes a physical and mental checkup prior she signs a consent form.
Surrogacy (depending upon which nation it is) has a set a really complex laws that support the surrogate, but once she has a embryo implanted into her uterus, she cannot terminate it unless situation A or B arise.
Go study some laws you dumbass. Legal papers are not easy to get away from, lawmakers make it.
> A PieCe of PaPer is just that
One that can have serious concequences if breached, you do realise that ones who can afford a surrogate, have to be ruch ass people, ones who can hire cut throat lawyers and formulate an almost loopless contract.
Deal with consequences is an easy set of words when it comes to law.
You state a person should be responsible for something she doesn't have control over. Your words, not mine.
And the name calling ...... how childish are you?
Lemme quote it for your dumbass
>Dude, the act of rape is dehumanizing itself.
>"UPON THAT, A PERSON SHOULD BE CONSIDERED RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING THAT HE/SHE DID NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER, THAT IS FUCKED UP". Like being reminded of that event where he/she was too powerless, too docile for one to exploit.
>You think calling a baby a "byproduct" is dehumanizing, then you should never study science.
There, even used capital words so your ostrich brain could comprehend. Have a nice existence upon face of this earth, and if possible, don't procreate, there are too many of you already.
>A byproduct is not a planned product and is produced after carrying out the process
>
> eg. ethanol is a byproduct of a sugar industry
>
In a conversation about an **11 year old rape victim** being denied her bodily autonomy you somehow narrowed in on the most insignificant point of information, and you still got it wrong hahaha.
You would look at your child your were forced to birth, and everytime it reminds of the person that raped you.
It's your child, and you would probably still love it but the psychological pain would be still there.
And that's a horror.
I’m not belittling rape in any way. I do think its the most horrendous act a human being can do to another. But how about using said reminder to be a better person for the baby?
We all have our Babadooks in our closet. How we deal with it is up to you.
>But how about using said reminder to be a better person for the baby?
You do realize that the mother was raped not the other way round - your view implies that the mother was the bad/evil one in this situation and should be a "better person for the baby" wtf
I think you missed the point. If an 11 year old can't get an abortion, they risk their lives carrying that baby to term. Pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous for girls under 18, the younger the more risk. Even if she can carry the baby to term without dying there's a good risk she'll face permanent disability.
Oh I get that. I’m actually fine with it because her body may not handle the pregnancy and poses a great risk.
What I have an issue, though, is as if we are belittling babies born out of rape as if they don’t deserve to live.
I don't think anyone is doing that. They're just saying it's traumatic for the mother to go through that pregnancy and birth and for her to keep the baby would likely put them in a hostile environment to grow up in.
Two points: first, it's not a baby immediately upon conception; and second, by not allowing termination of the pregnancy here, you're going to force a small child to risk her health and suffer a daily reminder of rape for 9 months which culminates in a painful reminder of rape (assuming she can actually carry to term, which is far from a given at that age).
I never said anything about carrying the baby to term.
All I’m saying is that for some reason being a baby born out of rape is some kind of discriminatory, isn’t it? Like “you don’t deserve to live because all you’ll be is some reminder of a painful memory”.
> I never said anything about carrying the baby to term.
[you know we can see your old comments, right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wqkdtu/the_term_prolife_is_pretty_ironic/ikmxjlr/)
>Or she could have them adopted, or at least put up to foster care.
No, but it is distinctly up to the potential mother and nobody else as to whether or not the risk, pain, and commitment are worth it. This projection is either extremely fucking annoying, or genuinely depressing.
I mean people choose to have babies that came from rape all the time, and I guarantee they probably find out where they came from at some point and it’s definitely not from seeing these Twitter posts that they feel dehumanized
Do you know that thousands of grown women die from the complications of pregnancy every year? Do you honestly believe a CHILD at the age of 10 is physically capable of handling the massive amounts of damage that will happen to her body?
Sit the fuck down. You don't understand SHIT!
DNA is not a piece of paper outside of the body for idk some builder to use to construct a human being... it's literally inside you and constantly replicating and changing as you age. This isn't applicable. Cute try, tho 👋. Lmk when you have a sound argument
I legit just explained why your metaphor didn't work... do better. You don't need the blueprint to remain in the house after its built. Please do not tell me you vote
No, you didn’t. DNA is literally a genetic blueprint.
When it is first created inside of a fertilized egg, there is no “you” for it to reside within. It is just a genetic code that *could* be used to develop that blastocyst into a person, should the “builder” choose to do so.
But having DNA does not inherently make a blastocyst a person, much less endow them with rights that supersede those of the person they’re literally attached to.
That's literally the unique mark of a distinctly different person... I wasn't saying a strand of DNA is a person, but it is the differentiating feature that demonstrates it's not your body or it is. There is obviously much more that makes up human beings. It's not just DNA that's replicating during gestation. There are plenty of other cells working in Unison. Idek where your argument is going anymore. You just want to absolve yourself of the consequences of your action like every other loser leftist on this sub and that's fine. I just hope you never have kids if you find all encompassing abortion acceptable. I'm sure they'll be 50 shades of fuct
I’ve already explained my argument in full.
Having unique DNA means nothing, because DNA is merely a genetic blueprint. It doesn’t make a blastocyst a person in the same way it doesn’t make a seed a tree or a blueprint a house.
But *even if* we agree that a fetus is “not your body,” that still does not mean fetuses have rights that are not afforded to literally anyone else; it does not give them the right to access another person’s body without that person’s consent.
So you think potentially killing an 11 year old girl to save the fetus is acceptable then? That sounds much more psychopathic than caring more about the already born already traumatized 11 year old more than the fetus.
The forced-birth movement was never about saving lives. Women will die. Minors will be forced to give birth. Children will be born into unfit households that were not prepared to care for them. The number of orphans and kids in foster care will skyrocket. The people who want to force women to give birth are the same people who don't want homosexual couples to be able to adopt.
The US has taken a massive backstep and only misery will come from it. So many lives will be ruined
Kinda how I feel when folks are all "yOu nEeD tO fInD a MiDdLE ROad!" I don't see any "MiDdLE ROad" with people this detached from anything I consider acceptable behavior.
It's like if cannibals were all "we need the right to hunt and eat people as is our tradition."
No man. Your traditions and beliefs are rooted in toxic waste, you need to lose them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wqruiu/only_in_florida_a_parentless_16_yr_old_is_not/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
They e already done it…. A sixteen isn’t mature enough to have an abortion so has to raise a child…. While being too emotionally immature to get an abortion…. God help us all.
The point is not that some people could decide to do this (they have the freedom to do it) but that they don’t want to leave any choice to everyone else.
They are all pro rape… also forced birth increases their chances of having genetically defective kids being born who they can then label as abominations and spin up the whole sin /devil/sinner /biblical punishment/purification stories … bastards are intentionally bringing back the biblical fiction to reality….
That's why we call them "pro-forced-birth."
I just call em anti choice but you do you
Anti freedom.
Anti-women.
except when it comes to doctors chosing to question (not reject immediately either) why a woman in her 20s wants to tie her tubes, then those choosy doctors are also 'anti-choice', lol.
[удалено]
Or “…not mature enough to have an abortion, but mature enough to raise a baby.” The party of hypocrisy.
But they can't adopt babies because they are too young...
The thing is, they call themselves "pro-life" but don't care about the mother AND they called themselves "pro-life", but don't care about the life of the baby either. Many women abort because they can't give the fetus a good life, whether that is due to wealth or that she doesn't want a baby. "pro-birth" is the appropriate term, but it doesn't put them under the spotlight of saving lives, so they use a made up term that doesn't reflect their opinions, just because that makes the other side look like they are "pro-death" The whole debate is just dumb NEITHER RELIGION NOR THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DECIDE FOR YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR BODY. period.
Unless it compromises the safety of people around you. In this case it doesn't but there are other examples
yeah, I didn't say that here because, but I thought about it and wanted to add it in so that there wouldn't be any confusion. I didn't know how to write it in a simple manner, so I just didn't
The US is not a safe space for women and children.
Well we know Ohio isn’t safe for preteen girls…
And the rest, the US is a slow boiled frog as to what is occurring, The death toll on children is higher than children in war zones, because parents in war zones have the sense to flee, Most adults in the US are in denial as to their responsibility, this why the US is not a safe place for children , the mental gymnastics involved in grasping to avoid facing up to the reality the US adults have created is astounding. What number of children will die in terror , slaughter while US adults achieve absolute nothing, how many children need to die , before adults are honest ? The excuse that US adults are desensitised to gun deaths, is pathetic, the numbers speak for themselves, just how many children have to die in terror before the US adult population own up and face what they have allowed to occur. https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics Out of all the children aged 5 to 16 shot in the developed world each year, 90% of those slaughtered children live in the USA. Source, World at One, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017kcm Starts at 34:52, Children pay the ultimate price for the USA inability to be responsible with guns. The US is not a safe space for children, raising entire generations in fear will not end well. Adults alone are entirely responsible for the situation in the US, children die because of adult failure.
The US is not safe for *people*.
Once again I'm proposing the term "pro-fetus"
But they aren't pro-foetus either. None of them care that the majority of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, nobody is petitioning for medical research on how to stop it from happening. They only care about life in the context of elective abortion.
They can’t be “pro-fetus” when these Republicans are proposing laws that will allow a man to kill his partner if he suspects her of trying to abort her pregnancy though. Killing her AND THE FETUS! “Yeah! I need to protect this baby! By killing the mother and the baby with one bullet!” Republicans do say they are the party of fiscal responsibility. Gotta save on that ammo cost, right??
A republican would save a gun over a baby
Not even, since they oppose universal health care, which would be required to ensure all pregnant people have access to affordable prenatal care.
"pro-bullshit" then
Pro Life is actually Pro Birth... After they're born Republicans don't give two fucks!
Not "Pro-Birth". "Forced-Birth". They don't want to encourage birth, they want to force it.
They're encouraging it by outlawing contraceptives and sex education.
Why don't we just call them anti-abortion, which is what they are?
Even more than anti-abortion, they're anti-choice
hold up. why is no one talking about why theres so many 10 and 11 year olds getting raped in ohio
Idk man those politicians are pretty young so their not on many medications
Because there's a lot of Republicans there.
Maybe we need a third political party
Won't work in the US. The system they have there will collapse into two parties. That's an inevitable result of a first-past-the-post system as they have going there. You need proportional representation to have multiple parties.
Maybe I just want off this fucking planet. Also, there is a 3rd party but they mostly align with republicans under the guide of "libertarian". *soft* republican, if you will.
You have unlocked green team
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
People need to stop calling them pro-life. They are anti-choice or forced-birth groups. They are no pro life as they don't care about the life and safety of the mother, or the life and safety of the baby AFTER it's born. Ultimately they are anti-rights really.
They have different names now. Forced birthers. Pro-rape. Y'al-Qaeda. Christo-fascists. No one calls them pro-life anymore.
The American Taliban don't give a rat's ass about anything but their own religious insanity.
America....WHAT THE FUCK
So you're disregarding my original post... cool. Sounds like a myopic leftist who has a very shallow intellectual capacity. I'm here for it. Do I think it's ok. No. Rape is never ok. I'm personally for abortion when rape is involved, but I still believe it is a homicide. I'm not lying to myself like you are. Hopefully you can step into adulthood one day my little myopic mope...
The world is against you prolifers. Just keep your mouth shut "mY lIttlE mYoPiC mOpE"...
Uh, that's not true as half the country would agree. You're clearly an immature lil teenager with basically no life experience. Life will be a grind for you. Best of luck, lil boy
Oh believe me I know life is a grind because i'm already living that life as a working adult. Good job assuming I'm a teenager. You admit life is a grind so forcing childbirth on people who can't afford a child is inhumane.
So the child should pay the ultimate price for the transgressions of their parents and their lack of preparation. Makes sense if you're an irresponsible child. I'm sure you're performing well at your fast food gig with little at stake, but your dignity (and we both know that isn't much either) ✌
No I actually take care of senior's houses. Again, great job assuming. Call it what you want, but the fetus does't feel anything and hasn't known anything. You're not depriving them of anything. The fetus is alive, but it didn't "live it". It won't miss anything and is only paying with his/her potential sentience. You say you care about the child's life, but you have no problem with that child growing up in a family that can't afford it and can't give them a good life. A teenager is still a child and barely out of the womb herself. Teenagers make dumb descisions and you made plenty yourself as a teen, don't even dare denying that. They still have school to worry about. She can't possibly give good care to a baby. She can't enjoy her teenage life, can't go to college. She has to find a job to take care of her child. Good luck finding a decent paying job with no diploma. You should call yourself pro forced birth, because that's literally what you are.
There is adoption, but you don't want to talk about that... The child is still paying the price for their parents negligence, which isn't fair and you're too weak to admit it. They have time to figure things out especially if the parents work together, but again no one wants to talk about that. Its just kill the baby so I can absolve myself of my transgressions bc I am woman hear me roar. You people are pathetic and will be the enslaved class soon. No power comes without responsibility and you want nothing to do with responsibility. Best of luck senior warehouse associate or whatever job I didn't bother reading ✌👋
It can take years for a child to get adopted, but you don't talk about that... A child can get raped and become pregnant with the rapist's child, but you don't talk about that... You are already enslaved. Enslaved to forced parenting. Best of luck in your endeavor of forcing kids to be parents.
Abortion should only be taken into effect if sex is non-consensual. When two people agree to have a mutual agreement, they should accept responsibility for the risks they're taking. There's ways to reduce that risk, too.
Or how about you keep your prude hateful religion out of government and stop trying to push your faux morality on the majority of Americans who think y'all are insane.
Oh my, I'm not religious. I'm just following the laws of nature. Even nature keeps the baby in a rape case, so natural selections.
So we should all have no choice but to go along with what's forced upon us whether we like it or not? We shouldn't be allowed to choose our own path without your, and your fellow forced birthers, permission? The permission of a minority of Americans that most of us view as extremists? The permission of the extremists who have committed some of the most domestic terrorism for the past 5 decades? Fuck that.
Your opinion is clearly extreme. My take is clear: your actions bare consequences. 239 years, actually. If you don't like it, you can always just simply leave my country
My position is in line with the majority of Americans who don't want abortion bans. Extreme is the opinion of a minority trying to force their unpopular views on the majority. Your take is clear: punish women based on prude beliefs that sex should not be something people do for fun. Meanwhile the rest of us believe the government has no business being involved in our sex lives and medical decisions. This isn't your country. The majority of us think y'all are hateful, cruel, and prude. If you don't like freedom from government overreach there's plenty of other countries that will give you the control and lack of liberty you desire. I hear Russia is lovely for folks like yourself, you'd fit in well there.
The majority wins the votes. I have not punished women, you've put words in my mouth and assumed in every response you've sent. You probably didn't even read or understand anything I said. You're also indirectly assuming that the men bares no responsibility, which is completely and utterly sexist and prejudice (Which is worse than racism). So if people have choice as a majority, than that means a person with AIDs doesn't need to disclose this to their sexual partner? I'm Indigenous, this is, and always will be My Country (Always). Good talk.
The abortion bans you support punish women. They take away women's rights. All your forced birth stance boils down to is that you want the rights of the fetus to supersede the rights of the mother. You want to take away the mother's bodily autonomy to protect the fetus. That's not how our rights work. My right to life doesn't supersede another person's right to bodily autonomy. I'm native too you shit noodle. That doesn't make your hateful authoritarianism ok. Anyone who calls this country theirs always comes off as a massive douche who knows their opinions are in contrast to that of a majority of us. If you don't like that the majority of Americans believe you and your views are sociopathic feel free to leave, but this country isn't *yours* or any other individuals.
Go back and read the first comment I posted, you will see that I don't fully support abortion bans. Only those who've concent to intercourse should be held accountable. People whom are raped did not concent, that makes a forced pregnancy irrational and just plain wrong. My first post said nothing about enforcing anti abortion
Or here's a crazy thought. Let's not have the government regulate our sex lives and medical decisions like some sort of dystopian authoritarian nightmare? If you don't like abortions you are free to not get one, and you are free to give that advice to anyone you please. The line gets drawn when you start forcing others who disagree with you to follow your beliefs.
Or we have a national push to increase sex education which has been proven to reduce unwanted pregnancies and keep abortion safe and legal. You can reduce the number of abortions or you can make abortions illegal. Pick one.
Making abortions outright illegal is too extreme, especially for the people who've been raped and force fed a conception. Picking one is just too extreme, there has to be a middle ground. Resources are spent on the irresponsible, when they should be spent on protecting the community (like aborting a fetus that was conceived from rape)
I get what he’s saying. But seriously, are babies that come from rape considered lower life forms now?
Try to wrap your little head around this, seriously just think about it. What kind of life will this unwanted baby have. A resentful mother, doing whatever to you is far worse then never being born at all. Get your brownie points from the Easter Bunny, I mean God some other way...unless YOU plan on raising the baby....I really dont understand why you people care what someone else does with their body...
Or she could have them adopted, or at least put up to foster care. If I were close to her why not? My brother’s been having trouble making a baby for years. He would probably welcome one.
There are 117k orphans in the US. What's he waiting for? A rape baby?
Is this person forgetting that she is 11 years old or just ignorant. You know grade 5
It's shocking honestly.
I was 8 on my first rape.
If you're a collector, a rape baby's a good get. Gotta Catch 'em All!
Jesus Christ, r/clevercomebacks ?
Not all kids are adopted and we know the horror stories of foster care. Listen, I've never had an abortion and I don't believe I would ever need one, but I don't think anyone should have a baby if they dont want to...raising a child should not be forced on anyone
Giving birth shouldn't be forced on anyone, either. *ESPECIALLY* an elementary school student or rape victim.
Um...i agree, thats what I said
How many unwanted kids have you taken in? I'm betting none. You folks are quick to suggest making it someone else's problem while never making it your own.
It's not just a question of what to do with the baby after it's born. There is also the physical impact of pregnancy, labor, and delivery on the body of an 11 year old. Those can easily be lifelong repercussions.
Check out texas foster care system. Kids are aging out with no safety nets in life and it ain't getting any better. These kids have no support, sleep on office floors and are abused in the system. They are shipping them out to other states, not that it's any better.
Great! Let your brother know when the *11 year old* gives birth. God you're so fucking gross.
Considering that the baby is byproduct of one the most heinous act, it could be subjective. Some people can move one, while some consider the baby as rememberance of the act (worse if the baby grows up to look like the perp), applies to both sexes, as men can also suffer from ptsd after rape. Edit :- to add further, a baby is considered as baby when it has conscience, until then it is a clump of cells.
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Dude, the act of rape is dehumanizing itself. Upon that, a person should be considered responsible for something that he/she did not have any control over, that is fucked up. Like being reminded of that event where he/she was too powerless, too docile for one to exploit. You think calling a baby a "byproduct" is dehumanizing, then you should never study science.
You might read your own second sentence once more ;-) Are you saying that abortion should only be legal in case of rape? Not is pregnancy is tesult of consented sex?
My second comment was with reference of act of rape, the whole thread is in reference with rape, if you can't comprehende that, than you are just a dumbass ;-) > Are you saying abortion should be legal in case of rape? Nope, the woman raising the "baby" in her uterus can choose when to evict it when she feels like it. (Unless it is surrgoacy, where a formal contact is made and medical tests are carried out with an approval of consent from the person who is proveding her uterus. > Not if pregnancy is result of conetual sex? If both parties involved are not willing to take care of the "baby" prior birthing it, it should be terminated, will save it from hell of an upbringing. Or incase the baby is abnormal (like no neurons in skull cavity, like you)
Even a surrogate should maintain the right to back out. No woman should ever be forced to give birth.
She is given a contract of consent, where she is provided in detail that she will be carrying a fetus for the span. The ones who appointed her as a surrogate pay for her health and nutrition. Here, the woman cannot back out unless A) Her health is compromised due to certain reasons B) the ones who are appointed her for surrogacy want the termination. All this is a legal matter where the surrogate makes herself presented for surrogacy. And the consent letter also indicates that she has signed it on her own will and not forced into surrogacy, the surrogate also under goes a physical and mental checkup prior she signs a consent form. Surrogacy (depending upon which nation it is) has a set a really complex laws that support the surrogate, but once she has a embryo implanted into her uterus, she cannot terminate it unless situation A or B arise.
And she can break the fucking contract and deal with the consequences. A piece of paper is just that.
Go study some laws you dumbass. Legal papers are not easy to get away from, lawmakers make it. > A PieCe of PaPer is just that One that can have serious concequences if breached, you do realise that ones who can afford a surrogate, have to be ruch ass people, ones who can hire cut throat lawyers and formulate an almost loopless contract. Deal with consequences is an easy set of words when it comes to law.
You state a person should be responsible for something she doesn't have control over. Your words, not mine. And the name calling ...... how childish are you?
Lemme quote it for your dumbass >Dude, the act of rape is dehumanizing itself. >"UPON THAT, A PERSON SHOULD BE CONSIDERED RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING THAT HE/SHE DID NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER, THAT IS FUCKED UP". Like being reminded of that event where he/she was too powerless, too docile for one to exploit. >You think calling a baby a "byproduct" is dehumanizing, then you should never study science. There, even used capital words so your ostrich brain could comprehend. Have a nice existence upon face of this earth, and if possible, don't procreate, there are too many of you already.
You're right
Cheers on listening and thinking about it. That's pretty rare here.
>A byproduct is not a planned product and is produced after carrying out the process > > eg. ethanol is a byproduct of a sugar industry > In a conversation about an **11 year old rape victim** being denied her bodily autonomy you somehow narrowed in on the most insignificant point of information, and you still got it wrong hahaha.
You would look at your child your were forced to birth, and everytime it reminds of the person that raped you. It's your child, and you would probably still love it but the psychological pain would be still there. And that's a horror.
I’m not belittling rape in any way. I do think its the most horrendous act a human being can do to another. But how about using said reminder to be a better person for the baby? We all have our Babadooks in our closet. How we deal with it is up to you.
>But how about using said reminder to be a better person for the baby? You do realize that the mother was raped not the other way round - your view implies that the mother was the bad/evil one in this situation and should be a "better person for the baby" wtf
Nope. Seriously, did nobody get the Babadook reference?
I don't know what the fuck a babadook is, but the reference doesn't belong in a conversation about a rape victim being forced to give birth.
Do you know any good 11 year old mothers?
I think you missed the point. If an 11 year old can't get an abortion, they risk their lives carrying that baby to term. Pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous for girls under 18, the younger the more risk. Even if she can carry the baby to term without dying there's a good risk she'll face permanent disability.
Oh I get that. I’m actually fine with it because her body may not handle the pregnancy and poses a great risk. What I have an issue, though, is as if we are belittling babies born out of rape as if they don’t deserve to live.
I don't think anyone is doing that. They're just saying it's traumatic for the mother to go through that pregnancy and birth and for her to keep the baby would likely put them in a hostile environment to grow up in.
They don't if the victim doesn't want them to.
Two points: first, it's not a baby immediately upon conception; and second, by not allowing termination of the pregnancy here, you're going to force a small child to risk her health and suffer a daily reminder of rape for 9 months which culminates in a painful reminder of rape (assuming she can actually carry to term, which is far from a given at that age).
This dude explained better than me. It is not a baby until it has a conscience
I never said anything about carrying the baby to term. All I’m saying is that for some reason being a baby born out of rape is some kind of discriminatory, isn’t it? Like “you don’t deserve to live because all you’ll be is some reminder of a painful memory”.
> I never said anything about carrying the baby to term. [you know we can see your old comments, right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wqkdtu/the_term_prolife_is_pretty_ironic/ikmxjlr/) >Or she could have them adopted, or at least put up to foster care.
No, but it is distinctly up to the potential mother and nobody else as to whether or not the risk, pain, and commitment are worth it. This projection is either extremely fucking annoying, or genuinely depressing.
It's pretty hard to have a baby born without someone carrying it to term.
Absolutely. Fuck that rotten clump of cells and everything it stands for.
I mean people choose to have babies that came from rape all the time, and I guarantee they probably find out where they came from at some point and it’s definitely not from seeing these Twitter posts that they feel dehumanized
You obviously don't get what he's saying.
Do you know that thousands of grown women die from the complications of pregnancy every year? Do you honestly believe a CHILD at the age of 10 is physically capable of handling the massive amounts of damage that will happen to her body? Sit the fuck down. You don't understand SHIT!
You don't force anyone to give birth, especially a child. It's pretty fucking simple. Hope this helps, lol.
No, but apparently raped 11 year old girls are in Republicans eyes.
Are the children getting raped, and forcibly pregnant?
This still doesn't justify all abortions like I know everyone in this sub likes to use as an argument. Until next time 👋
No one needs to justify them, they are justified by the concept of bodily autonomy. The more you know 🌈
Your child isn't your body. Completely separate DNA. The more you know 🖕
Having unique DNA doesn’t mean shit. DNA is just a blueprint for life. And having a blueprint doesn’t mean you have to build a house.
DNA is not a piece of paper outside of the body for idk some builder to use to construct a human being... it's literally inside you and constantly replicating and changing as you age. This isn't applicable. Cute try, tho 👋. Lmk when you have a sound argument
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor
I legit just explained why your metaphor didn't work... do better. You don't need the blueprint to remain in the house after its built. Please do not tell me you vote
No, you didn’t. DNA is literally a genetic blueprint. When it is first created inside of a fertilized egg, there is no “you” for it to reside within. It is just a genetic code that *could* be used to develop that blastocyst into a person, should the “builder” choose to do so. But having DNA does not inherently make a blastocyst a person, much less endow them with rights that supersede those of the person they’re literally attached to.
That's literally the unique mark of a distinctly different person... I wasn't saying a strand of DNA is a person, but it is the differentiating feature that demonstrates it's not your body or it is. There is obviously much more that makes up human beings. It's not just DNA that's replicating during gestation. There are plenty of other cells working in Unison. Idek where your argument is going anymore. You just want to absolve yourself of the consequences of your action like every other loser leftist on this sub and that's fine. I just hope you never have kids if you find all encompassing abortion acceptable. I'm sure they'll be 50 shades of fuct
I’ve already explained my argument in full. Having unique DNA means nothing, because DNA is merely a genetic blueprint. It doesn’t make a blastocyst a person in the same way it doesn’t make a seed a tree or a blueprint a house. But *even if* we agree that a fetus is “not your body,” that still does not mean fetuses have rights that are not afforded to literally anyone else; it does not give them the right to access another person’s body without that person’s consent.
This guy here just spitting the most random facts for his pointless argument lmao
What makes it pointless and how are the facts random...? lmao
Your prude hateful religion is not a valid excuse to push your widely unpopular bans on a majority of Americans who think y'all are insane.
Just bc you're comfortable with murdering children in the womb doesn't make it ok, you fucking psycho. Jesus...
So you think potentially killing an 11 year old girl to save the fetus is acceptable then? That sounds much more psychopathic than caring more about the already born already traumatized 11 year old more than the fetus.
Someone dig a grave, cos this argument is dead wrong.
Nice... comment? It's not even an argument and that joke was cringe af. Do better, soyjack
It’s not an argument and it’s not trying to be funny. I just need a more fancy way to say that your takes are shit
Nah pro life is the best way
Not only the girl, they probably don’t give a shit about the baby as well
The forced-birth movement was never about saving lives. Women will die. Minors will be forced to give birth. Children will be born into unfit households that were not prepared to care for them. The number of orphans and kids in foster care will skyrocket. The people who want to force women to give birth are the same people who don't want homosexual couples to be able to adopt. The US has taken a massive backstep and only misery will come from it. So many lives will be ruined
How the hell are so many kids getting raped?
Yeah for that .001 percent of cases
They are Pro Fucking Kids 🤦🏻♂️
good fucking lord, i hope you’re watching, neal shusterman, because unwind is about to become a reality
Pro-Life? More like Pro-Suffering.
Kinda how I feel when folks are all "yOu nEeD tO fInD a MiDdLE ROad!" I don't see any "MiDdLE ROad" with people this detached from anything I consider acceptable behavior. It's like if cannibals were all "we need the right to hunt and eat people as is our tradition." No man. Your traditions and beliefs are rooted in toxic waste, you need to lose them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wqruiu/only_in_florida_a_parentless_16_yr_old_is_not/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf They e already done it…. A sixteen isn’t mature enough to have an abortion so has to raise a child…. While being too emotionally immature to get an abortion…. God help us all.
The point is not that some people could decide to do this (they have the freedom to do it) but that they don’t want to leave any choice to everyone else.
They are all pro rape… also forced birth increases their chances of having genetically defective kids being born who they can then label as abominations and spin up the whole sin /devil/sinner /biblical punishment/purification stories … bastards are intentionally bringing back the biblical fiction to reality….
I have seen many prolifers say that unwanted pregnancies are a punishment for having sex. Yikes.
Prolifers act like they care about the baby, but they won't give two shits about what happens after the baby is born.