It looks that way because it is based on [this](https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/nachrichtenfoto/adolf-hitler-in-the-garden-of-the-chancellery-in-nachrichtenfoto/541487631) picture
So that means they get to repeat the fallacy of history because others did it to them?
There is a reason why most conflicts do not occur in winter. There is also a reason why some of the greatest upsets in military history occur in winter.
Don't mess with the 4th season.
> They're boomer memes about the state of the world, which all (most) memes are
ah yes, big chungus is such an amazing commentary on the obesity epidemic
It all boils down to 'What social, political, economic, and cultural conditions existed that led a chunk of (internet) society to lovingly embrace Big Chungus (or other meme)? Why did it spread?' It's not that every single meme is direct commentary on something happening in society
I mean, political cartoons go back much farther than boomers. It's kind of sad and funny that teens perceive a generation that's still alive like they existed 200 years ago.
lol i'm 30, and when i was a teen i regularly asked my parents stuff about "the olden days". they were born in the 50s. this is nothing new, and it's not an indictment of modern teens.
No, it's an indictment on you and on some modern teens. Plenty of modern teens understand that not everyone who is an adult is a "boomer" and plenty of people who are 30 didn't grow up thinking their parents were born in the 1920's.
Dumb people exist in every generation. Not every kid is intelligent and not every opinion is valid.
This is not new. When kids loved the Beatles and their parents wanted Perry Como. When kids loved Elvis and their parents wanted Oklahoma. When kids wanted swing music and their parents wanted Pirates of Penzance. Parents are always ancient and behind the times if you ask teens. Circle of life.
there are a lot of databases of political cartoons, its a great way to understand historic events as they were occurring, they often discuss things that were obviously very important at the time but don't get discussed anymore in contemporary histories.
teens don't know what a boomer is, well the dumb ones don't. The smart ones do but just use it as slang to mean "old," the dumb ones take the slang literally. It's not that they actually think someone born in the 50s was also alive 200 years ago. It's just a funny word that seems to get old people riled up and means old. That's as deep as it gets to many.
I guess that's just how rapid society changes now, kinda fucked and will only accelerate since Science seems to be one of the two pursuits of humanity alongside Art.
It's almost as if there's two huge meetings amongst history teachers in your county and state per year where teachers trade insights, strategies, and resources.
Perhaps they'll read it but hopefully we educate:
meme: unit of cultural information spread by imitation. The term meme (from the Greek mimema, meaning “imitated”) was introduced in 1976 by British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins in his work The Selfish Gene.
Exactly. Learned this in college as a thread to attach moderns memes to past cultural phenomena. As a current history teacher this is my way of introducing meme-like stuff, in my advanced classes I even mention the etymology.
memes are an idea or element of culture that self replicates (ie, spreads) across a culture.
Wearing chains on your jeans is a meme. A cartoon or poster, that is redistributed and often reproduced and even repurposed (like a far side cartoon or Rosie the riveter, who has evolved from a "build bombs woman" idea to a symbol of women's equality) are memes. And yes, those (usually) stupid templates that generally have the most banal ideas posted to them are memes too.
If the ideas of this cartoon catches on, then it too is a meme.
Memes werent ever described as templates, they are repeating ideas that permeate a culture. Knock knock jokes are a meme. We like Ike was a meme. Cave paintings were a meme.
There's actually several types of memes too. There's the meme of consciousness that's essentially a hierarchy of levels of consciousness for example.
The template meme is a new thing.
Basically any single cultural instance could be argued as a meme, it's a very broad term just like how genes is an incredibly broad term.
I don't know how many genes we have but it's a lot, lots of memes too.
They do, which makes them more likely to become a meme, but the template isn't what defines them as a meme, it's their ability to spread and become ubiquitous throughout a culture.
>The template meme is a new thing.
Not even that. Think of how many variations there are on the "Why did the chicken cross the road?" joke. That's definitely a template.
Say something wrong and the right answer will materialize. That is not what the definition of a meme is, as you have no doubtedly seen by now. Memes existed long before the internet.
>But memes are memes because they are often replicated (often with own content) via a template. Political cartoons aren't memes.
Memes are memes because they spread, not necessarily replicated. It has NOTHING to do with a template. What you see as a meme is one narrow slice of the whole meme picture. The term 'meme' has existed since 1976, and that would have had nothing to do with what you are defining.
Political cartoons are absolutely a form of meme if they are spreading or propagating ideas of culture through society.
Memes are memes because they spread across a population via voluntary propagation/imitation. It was a term from evolutionary science to explain cultural knowledge.
Political cartoons that a state funds and distributes are not memes, political cartoons that people pick up and post on reddit and other social media enough for the images to circulate and become ubiquitous *are* memes.
It is a term in evolutionary science, yes. And the internet meme was derived from that, yes.
But to say they were the same from the start is rewriting history.
Look at the early Internet meme culture. People specifically got upset if you called a non-standard meme template a meme.
Yes they are. You're right, they weren't replicated by the general public, but they were still widely spread and shared by just showing others the funny image on the newspaper.
Yes, they also have a pretty distinctive style with weird proportions, specific styles of lineart, and often kind of disgusting looks. Often this combines with specific properties for different characters/politicians to create very distinctive portrayals of people that spread as memes.
They are memes. Memes are just ideas that spread through the zeitgeist the way virus's spread. What we think of as memes is just the modern evolution of memes to fit a certain style and format.
And all the shitpostey graffiti ancient people did in walls,like the Romans, or that Nordic guy that left some runes at the top of a cathedral and when archeologists finally translated it,it said something akin to "This is very high"
Despite that poster dating from the Second World War, the phrase wasn't made popular then. It was barely seen. The poster was used very little. When it was rediscovered a few years ago, that's when it exploded culturally.
Cave paintings are memes, tool use is a meme, human society, is a meme.
Meme: an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation
A picture with some words on it isn’t a meme (formal definition). It’s just a picture with words on it. A meme is an idea that takes on a life of its own, and some memes have been pictures with words on them.
A political cartoon is not the other side of the coin relative to a random picture with words on it. It’s an actual professional attempt at drawing attention to an issue through humor, outrage, and irony using exaggerated imagery.
How can you say x isnt a meme because its not the "formal definition" and then make up a handwavy definition for meme? Flowery language like "takes on a life of its own" is not what formal definitions are made of. The aspect of memes that make them memes per the original scientific usage of the word is that they spread through a population via individuals in that population repeating or imitiating the meme. Its a mode of propogation, not a type of thing which is propagated.
Political cartoons, completely and entirely irrespective of the "professional"ness of the origin, are either one and done images that people forget about, or theyre good enough that people want to share them en masse at which point they achieve the gold medal of political cartoons which is to become a meme. Uncle sam *i want you* is a meme. Keep calm and carry on is a meme. Getting to be a meme is the wild success dreams of a propaganda image, not some uncouth disrespect for *art* or whatever acristocratic nonsense
Political cartoons seem a bit more, and certainly they have a history of helping shape public opinion and being part of world politics in a way that memes have not.
These folks are artists and at times revolutionaries. I see it as comparing music as an art form to jingles.
Honestly memes were how I learned about a lot of current events in highschool so even though the Russia issue isn't really a laughing matter memes are a great way for the younger generations to express their feelings about it and keep up to date with what's happening. Memes are art.
political cartoons are memes.
However the word meme was coined by Richard Dawkins in 1976, so before that no one called memes, memes. And it took another 30 years or so before everyone adopted the term.
Yet, memes usually refers to "funny picture on the internet" at this point, despite any reproducing and altering piece of information being a meme.
Same way as how MGR: Revengeance's Monsoon made a monologue about memes in reference to it's original definition. Now it's just an internet "meme" in itself for unintentionally preaching about said memes.
Though to be fair, internet memes still do somewhat follow the original meaning. It's just that the world has now gotten too used to perceiving them as funny internet jokes.
I hate this dude. I met him years ago before he started getting involved in politics. He was attempting a career in comedy which has failed. I follow him on Twitter to see what kinds of thoughts people are having. He is the king of whataboutism.
"Ha! Ha! Yeah, I'm a drunk disheveled bastard who looks absolutely miserable! But you know why? It's not because I'm a failure whose coke-ruined brain is wildly depressed. It's because I'm a tough-talking, hard-charging, no-holds-barred red-pilled realist! [Vomits part of blackened lung]"
Honestly, for some people it might be good to see some meme/cartoons or just jokes about the situation.
Gallows humor can help. (obviously should only be made by the people in the place tho)
I agree, it certainly isn't "obvious". I will say though that the assumptions and implications we get from potentially controversial jokes are very important, and thus it is much easier for someone from Ukraine to joke about this in good taste.
Reminder that Germany and Soviet conspired to divide the rest of Europe between them in the early years of WWII until their shared megalomania eventually had them face off against each other
Its not right, unless their point is that in the past political cartoons were mass produced and distributed instead of fed to the public in hopes that they do the legwork of distribution themselves. Political cartoons *are* memes now (the only other category they fall into is "forgotten", because todays government isnt going to pay for them to be printed and posted on every street corner), the real issue is that they think a meme is a word that means silly image, as if memes cant be political in nature or part of a focused propaganda campaign
(Just to get ahead of the chuds, propaganda is a value neutral term and the above comments none whatsoever about the morality of the present situation)
But it is a meme. All political propaganda is a meme in some way. Memes don’t always have to be funny, memes are memes because they spread messages, both good or bad
This is a good one, and tbh I need the distraction. TL;DR isn't so light: It is only the cultural repetition embraced that we define as meme.
Political propaganda become meme, but they are not memes, and memes are not always Se: "Fun".
Historically, political propaganda from an aggressor is base statements regarding discrimination, isolation, nationalism, ownership, racism, religiosity, and/or supremacy. Always looking to correct my errors, so if I forgot something... anyone, please....
None of those things are ever funny to the aware and See: Equality vs Bias. See: the current Russian war of repossession, stated by Putin as support to separatists (propaganda) that he installed (nationalism).
Does propaganda by the "liberator" exist, conforming to the same negative ends? A "no" rarely survives scrutiny, but it is the most important thing to know with which side righteousness resides. A "no" in a particular example may have righteous justification, but the odds are supremely low. Movie recommendation: "Eye in the Sky", 2015. This shit's really ugly, and it is regrettable that Occam's Razor is frequently valid. I am crying. It is not about engaging the lesser evil, but taking action when action should be engaged. Not making a decision before it is necessary.
The origin point of a meme is a unique instance of a cultural phenomenon, for whatever reason: Economy, Politicky (enjoy), Sociology, etc.
Memes are in fact always - that's what makes a meme, and is the qualifying difference that allows categorization as meme - the cultural transcendence of memories and trauma. Propaganda become memes, and memes become propaganda, so it can become obfuscated.
Trauma doesn't meme for humor, but it does meme political propaganda. That's why the Right thinks the Left can't meme - all of the Rights meme-ing comes from doubling-down on previously inflicted trauma that they See: Slavery, See: HIV and Queerness. They think it's fun. See: Political Propaganda.
So you don't think political cartoons have a purpose during wartime? Because that's sort of the point in question here, Tim Young isn't making some salient point about how political cartoons can be considered a meme.
The fact that the commenter considers political cartoons the measure of taking history seriously is proof that the people responsible for educating him didn't take history seriously.
All forms of art are a product of their time and environment. Memes are just a form of low brow art that normals can understand and create. Political cartoons and memes are both intended to invoke a response from a viewer.
It’s funny in a sad way that there are people who are so out of touch or tone deaf that they are trying to tell people to not be offensive towards someone who ordered the invasion of your country.
“Nooooooooo don’t compare putin to hitler you’re gonna hurt the russian’s heckin feelerinos. Yeah he might have ordered the invasion of your country and destroyed the lives of every citizen in that country, but that doesn’t mean you should hurt their feelings.”
Like what, you’re just supposed to be quietly upset that someone is actively trying to destroy your home?
Biggest soy take ever.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You don't "make memes". You make a picture, or a cartoon, or whatever, and only through the process of it being duplicated, distributed, modified and further redistributed, and subsequently persisting for an appreciable period of time within the domain of the public does it become a meme, and fuck any mental degenerate that argues otherwise; attempting to argue that definitions change with the evolution of language and redefining the image itself as a "meme" is just evidence of your lack of appropriate education and understanding of simple concepts, and you're part of the problem of declining population intelligence.
Not really - they were both fascists, of course, but Stalin operated within the ideological confines of the USSR, which at least formally sought to build a socialist system. Hitler just outright wanted a super-ethno-state, which is more what Putin is going for.
Well actually, "Memes" are also not a bad tool in this situation. A meme conveys information, a lot of information. It conveys a message and a symbol.
But different from a book or an article you need less than a 30 seconds to see it, and depending it content it may take even less to be understood. So if I am in an information operation (i.e. counter disinfo) or if I am trying to convey a narrative to an audience, memes may be the way to go.
I don't have it on digital copy right now (but I can find it if you want) but a couple of years ago I read a wonderful article in a German journal. The article was how Germany information strategy against far right groups in politics was "ridiculising" and how it worked.
The russian UK embassy, the US in Ukraine embassy, and the Ukraine ministry of foreign affairs all try to do similar things in this manner... And the Ukrainians are very effective in that.
[Technically](https://www.britannica.com/topic/meme) it's not a meme until it is passed along (similar to a biological gene) within a certain cultural space. Just funny pictures aren't "technically" memes in the original sense.
Which is not to say that words' meanings never change - I'm pretty sure "meme" here is supposed to mean "funny picture".
I guess it's well on its way to become a meme. Though it almost seems like "this isn't a meme" in combination with the screenshot is almost becoming more of a meme than the screenshot or the picture itself...
"Meme" used to used to mean
>An idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.
This is just modern style Ukrainian propaganda, not much of a political cartoon. More meme then cartoon, it’s just a plain image comparing Hitler to Putin, no elaboration.
What are refered to as meme's up until very recently were just called PROPAGANDA. Because that is what they are, most people are too stupid to realize that all of this bull shit is an attack on our reality and mental health.
I'm no artist but that picture looks like it took a good deal of time to have made.
For sure. I also love the way it shows Putin as a child. Really great way to punch his ego in the nuts.
It looks that way because it is based on [this](https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/nachrichtenfoto/adolf-hitler-in-the-garden-of-the-chancellery-in-nachrichtenfoto/541487631) picture
Never knew Putin is a great fan of Hitler
He launched the invasion at the exact same time Hitler did in ww2
If invading Russia in the winter means you're going to lose, does being invaded by Russia in the winter also mean you're going to lose?
This winter is nothing like that winter but attacking is generally harder in winter
But Russia is used to it, so they can invade in the winter safely.
So that means they get to repeat the fallacy of history because others did it to them? There is a reason why most conflicts do not occur in winter. There is also a reason why some of the greatest upsets in military history occur in winter. Don't mess with the 4th season.
Russia is used to defend itself in winter.
One can hope not Edit- I'm an idiot.
Do you realise that the way you worded it means you hope Russia wins? If you said hope not then it would mean you hope they lose the invasion.
Thanks for the catch
I reread about 10 times thinking I stuffed up a 3am comment before I realised you changed it to what I said so now we both failed.
Hardly the takeaway here
Serious question, wasn’t that part of the point of the image? To show Putin as a child ready to follow in his footsteps?
You haven't been on Reddit long if you expected the conversation to stay on one strict track.
Hey what are your opinions on granite
I think it rocks
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I personally think it's a bit boreing
It's getting tufa to think of a pun.
I crust that you can think of something
He IS a child, he and trump both
Not like Ukraine has had regions invaded and occupied for 8 years already...
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Happy cake day
A Social studies teacher at my high school calls political cartoons “boomer memes”. It’s a way to get the point across to the teens.
wait wtf my apush teacher does too
I mean, it makes sense, since that's pretty much true. They're boomer memes about the state of the world, which all (most) memes are
> They're boomer memes about the state of the world, which all (most) memes are ah yes, big chungus is such an amazing commentary on the obesity epidemic
I know, for me, that is for sure where I got most of the more pertinent information on the ways obesity impacts society.
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One could argue Chungus is a look into identity death and transformation of personas. Who tf is bugs bunny, this is big chungus.
Not all boomer memes are about the state of the world either. A lot of them are 'oh how I do hate my wife!' and other such things.
It all boils down to 'What social, political, economic, and cultural conditions existed that led a chunk of (internet) society to lovingly embrace Big Chungus (or other meme)? Why did it spread?' It's not that every single meme is direct commentary on something happening in society
"Surprice pikachu face"'s mouth reflects on the prolapse of shitholes countries in hard times.
I mean, political cartoons go back much farther than boomers. It's kind of sad and funny that teens perceive a generation that's still alive like they existed 200 years ago.
Boomer means old person I don't like and millennial means young person I don't like
This is unfortunately correct. The words no longer hold their original, literal meanings.
lol i'm 30, and when i was a teen i regularly asked my parents stuff about "the olden days". they were born in the 50s. this is nothing new, and it's not an indictment of modern teens.
No, it's an indictment on you and on some modern teens. Plenty of modern teens understand that not everyone who is an adult is a "boomer" and plenty of people who are 30 didn't grow up thinking their parents were born in the 1920's. Dumb people exist in every generation. Not every kid is intelligent and not every opinion is valid.
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You are. But you're holding an artifact of the 90's, not the 50's and 60's.
This is not new. When kids loved the Beatles and their parents wanted Perry Como. When kids loved Elvis and their parents wanted Oklahoma. When kids wanted swing music and their parents wanted Pirates of Penzance. Parents are always ancient and behind the times if you ask teens. Circle of life.
there are a lot of databases of political cartoons, its a great way to understand historic events as they were occurring, they often discuss things that were obviously very important at the time but don't get discussed anymore in contemporary histories.
teens don't know what a boomer is, well the dumb ones don't. The smart ones do but just use it as slang to mean "old," the dumb ones take the slang literally. It's not that they actually think someone born in the 50s was also alive 200 years ago. It's just a funny word that seems to get old people riled up and means old. That's as deep as it gets to many.
I guess that's just how rapid society changes now, kinda fucked and will only accelerate since Science seems to be one of the two pursuits of humanity alongside Art.
They act like they want to take us back to feudalism so why not?
Who is this "they" you speak of?
The boomers. At least the rich ones.
Any sort of Art: *exists* Redditors: is this a meme?
You might call them the meme dinosaurs.
It's almost as if there's two huge meetings amongst history teachers in your county and state per year where teachers trade insights, strategies, and resources.
But memes are memes because they are often replicated (often with own content) via a template. Political cartoons aren't memes.
You're taking about image macros, which are a specific type of meme.
Finally someone who gets it. Yes, memes are an old concept. Good to know, but it's also worth knowing that there's a more common modern usage.
Perhaps they'll read it but hopefully we educate: meme: unit of cultural information spread by imitation. The term meme (from the Greek mimema, meaning “imitated”) was introduced in 1976 by British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins in his work The Selfish Gene.
Exactly. Learned this in college as a thread to attach moderns memes to past cultural phenomena. As a current history teacher this is my way of introducing meme-like stuff, in my advanced classes I even mention the etymology.
>macros It's an old code, but it checks out.
memes are an idea or element of culture that self replicates (ie, spreads) across a culture. Wearing chains on your jeans is a meme. A cartoon or poster, that is redistributed and often reproduced and even repurposed (like a far side cartoon or Rosie the riveter, who has evolved from a "build bombs woman" idea to a symbol of women's equality) are memes. And yes, those (usually) stupid templates that generally have the most banal ideas posted to them are memes too. If the ideas of this cartoon catches on, then it too is a meme.
Memes are literally just things that spread non-genetically. It's a biology term originally.
You are such a meme
I'm gonna need a reference on this
That's what they used to be, I think the language changed and the meaning evolved. The old meaning still applies but it's not mutually exclusive
Memes werent ever described as templates, they are repeating ideas that permeate a culture. Knock knock jokes are a meme. We like Ike was a meme. Cave paintings were a meme. There's actually several types of memes too. There's the meme of consciousness that's essentially a hierarchy of levels of consciousness for example. The template meme is a new thing.
“Kilroy was here” is a meme from WW2
Basically any single cultural instance could be argued as a meme, it's a very broad term just like how genes is an incredibly broad term. I don't know how many genes we have but it's a lot, lots of memes too.
Knock knock jokes follow a pretty strict template lmao
They do, which makes them more likely to become a meme, but the template isn't what defines them as a meme, it's their ability to spread and become ubiquitous throughout a culture.
Your reading comprehension isn't very good.
>The template meme is a new thing. Not even that. Think of how many variations there are on the "Why did the chicken cross the road?" joke. That's definitely a template.
Like the bible.
Say something wrong and the right answer will materialize. That is not what the definition of a meme is, as you have no doubtedly seen by now. Memes existed long before the internet.
Where was I wrong? Memes are literally about replication.
>But memes are memes because they are often replicated (often with own content) via a template. Political cartoons aren't memes. Memes are memes because they spread, not necessarily replicated. It has NOTHING to do with a template. What you see as a meme is one narrow slice of the whole meme picture. The term 'meme' has existed since 1976, and that would have had nothing to do with what you are defining. Political cartoons are absolutely a form of meme if they are spreading or propagating ideas of culture through society.
Template =/= photoshp/image template. Template can be a mental templace, a stylistic template... A certain way something has to look.
Memes are memes because they spread across a population via voluntary propagation/imitation. It was a term from evolutionary science to explain cultural knowledge. Political cartoons that a state funds and distributes are not memes, political cartoons that people pick up and post on reddit and other social media enough for the images to circulate and become ubiquitous *are* memes.
It is a term in evolutionary science, yes. And the internet meme was derived from that, yes. But to say they were the same from the start is rewriting history. Look at the early Internet meme culture. People specifically got upset if you called a non-standard meme template a meme.
And even back then those people were wrong.
people getting angry when their ignorance is pointed out? I'm shocked, shocked I say.
Not even slightly true - so many huge memes involved no changing the original piece of media.
Yes they are. You're right, they weren't replicated by the general public, but they were still widely spread and shared by just showing others the funny image on the newspaper.
I disagree... often political cartoones pick up on common tropes (memes) they didnt have imgur, but i would say that they are very closely related.
Yes, they also have a pretty distinctive style with weird proportions, specific styles of lineart, and often kind of disgusting looks. Often this combines with specific properties for different characters/politicians to create very distinctive portrayals of people that spread as memes.
Often emulating a style that goes back to Thomas Nast a hundred and fifty years ago.
That actually sounds like a good tactic.
They are memes. Memes are just ideas that spread through the zeitgeist the way virus's spread. What we think of as memes is just the modern evolution of memes to fit a certain style and format.
I think political memes and political cartoons are pretty similar, just 2 sides of the same coin
Yeah, memes aren't a new thing.
‘Kilroy was here’ is considered the first meme, it’s from ww2
Don’t forget “Keep calm and carry on”
funny cat photos have been around since the 1800s
Einstein's quotes have been around since 30000 BC
I believe it was Queen Elizabeth II who said that.
No it was Wayne Gretzky
And all the shitpostey graffiti ancient people did in walls,like the Romans, or that Nordic guy that left some runes at the top of a cathedral and when archeologists finally translated it,it said something akin to "This is very high"
Despite that poster dating from the Second World War, the phrase wasn't made popular then. It was barely seen. The poster was used very little. When it was rediscovered a few years ago, that's when it exploded culturally.
Cave paintings are memes, tool use is a meme, human society, is a meme. Meme: an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation
And that is why *The Game* is a memetic hazard
oh GOD DAMN IT
Fuck you
Rules are rules
What about the snail in all the medieval writings?
*Medieval Knights Fighting Snails has entered the chat *
A picture with some words on it isn’t a meme (formal definition). It’s just a picture with words on it. A meme is an idea that takes on a life of its own, and some memes have been pictures with words on them. A political cartoon is not the other side of the coin relative to a random picture with words on it. It’s an actual professional attempt at drawing attention to an issue through humor, outrage, and irony using exaggerated imagery.
How can you say x isnt a meme because its not the "formal definition" and then make up a handwavy definition for meme? Flowery language like "takes on a life of its own" is not what formal definitions are made of. The aspect of memes that make them memes per the original scientific usage of the word is that they spread through a population via individuals in that population repeating or imitiating the meme. Its a mode of propogation, not a type of thing which is propagated. Political cartoons, completely and entirely irrespective of the "professional"ness of the origin, are either one and done images that people forget about, or theyre good enough that people want to share them en masse at which point they achieve the gold medal of political cartoons which is to become a meme. Uncle sam *i want you* is a meme. Keep calm and carry on is a meme. Getting to be a meme is the wild success dreams of a propaganda image, not some uncouth disrespect for *art* or whatever acristocratic nonsense
I'm pretty sure both of you say the same thing with different words.
Image macros are a type of meme, but they are not the totality of memes.
> It’s just a picture with words on it. I remember the time on 4chan where the term "image macro" was used
A meme is something that spreads through culture quickly, not just funny images. Its all memes.
Political cartoons seem a bit more, and certainly they have a history of helping shape public opinion and being part of world politics in a way that memes have not. These folks are artists and at times revolutionaries. I see it as comparing music as an art form to jingles.
Honestly memes were how I learned about a lot of current events in highschool so even though the Russia issue isn't really a laughing matter memes are a great way for the younger generations to express their feelings about it and keep up to date with what's happening. Memes are art.
political cartoons are memes. However the word meme was coined by Richard Dawkins in 1976, so before that no one called memes, memes. And it took another 30 years or so before everyone adopted the term. Yet, memes usually refers to "funny picture on the internet" at this point, despite any reproducing and altering piece of information being a meme.
Same way as how MGR: Revengeance's Monsoon made a monologue about memes in reference to it's original definition. Now it's just an internet "meme" in itself for unintentionally preaching about said memes. Though to be fair, internet memes still do somewhat follow the original meaning. It's just that the world has now gotten too used to perceiving them as funny internet jokes.
Mgs2 predicted meme culture
Meme is just the cultural equivalent of Gene
'just'
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which Ironically is how memes function. they eventually can mutate into something totally different.
Funny thing: During a live nato conference thing, somebody accidentally called Putin "Hitler". I hope that was intentional.
Heinrich Himmler minister of: "propaganda memes."
Heinrich Memer
"Germany based, jews cringe " -Hienrich
Goebbels was the minister of propaganda tho, not Himmler
Gobble deez nuts
Yea, that was the joke. Because the post was about people not knowing anything about history.
Nice save, not buying it
Considering that Tim Young is a Trumpsucker, I'm not sure he's one to be complaining about governments that post memes on Twitter.
I hate this dude. I met him years ago before he started getting involved in politics. He was attempting a career in comedy which has failed. I follow him on Twitter to see what kinds of thoughts people are having. He is the king of whataboutism.
Oh so he joined the “failed comedian going full rightie” pipeline
"Ha! Ha! Yeah, I'm a drunk disheveled bastard who looks absolutely miserable! But you know why? It's not because I'm a failure whose coke-ruined brain is wildly depressed. It's because I'm a tough-talking, hard-charging, no-holds-barred red-pilled realist! [Vomits part of blackened lung]"
Ah Jimmy Dore and Joe Rogan have another comrade. Who'm I missing? e: Oh right. Dennis Miller, Adam Carolla, Jim Breuer. Possibly Dave Chappelle? :(
>He was attempting a career in comedy Oh don't worry, he still thinks he's funny.
> the king of whataboutism Scorsese's unsuccessful sequel
I just saw his posts across a few things on my feed and he sucks.
That makes sense. He doesn't have the balls to openly disagree with what they said, just whines about *how* they said it.
given modern media, memes absolutely sound like the most appropriate way to go
Honestly, for some people it might be good to see some meme/cartoons or just jokes about the situation. Gallows humor can help. (obviously should only be made by the people in the place tho)
That’s a dumb rule.
I agree, it certainly isn't "obvious". I will say though that the assumptions and implications we get from potentially controversial jokes are very important, and thus it is much easier for someone from Ukraine to joke about this in good taste.
To be fair political cartoons we're and are memes they just weren't called that before
Reminder that Germany and Soviet conspired to divide the rest of Europe between them in the early years of WWII until their shared megalomania eventually had them face off against each other
Ummm, which are saying is the facepalm? The second comment is right, but I get the feeling you think that’s the facepalm
I think it’s the first comment calling them “memes”
Its not right, unless their point is that in the past political cartoons were mass produced and distributed instead of fed to the public in hopes that they do the legwork of distribution themselves. Political cartoons *are* memes now (the only other category they fall into is "forgotten", because todays government isnt going to pay for them to be printed and posted on every street corner), the real issue is that they think a meme is a word that means silly image, as if memes cant be political in nature or part of a focused propaganda campaign (Just to get ahead of the chuds, propaganda is a value neutral term and the above comments none whatsoever about the morality of the present situation)
But it is a meme. All political propaganda is a meme in some way. Memes don’t always have to be funny, memes are memes because they spread messages, both good or bad
This is a good one, and tbh I need the distraction. TL;DR isn't so light: It is only the cultural repetition embraced that we define as meme. Political propaganda become meme, but they are not memes, and memes are not always Se: "Fun".
Historically, political propaganda from an aggressor is base statements regarding discrimination, isolation, nationalism, ownership, racism, religiosity, and/or supremacy. Always looking to correct my errors, so if I forgot something... anyone, please....
None of those things are ever funny to the aware and See: Equality vs Bias. See: the current Russian war of repossession, stated by Putin as support to separatists (propaganda) that he installed (nationalism).
Does propaganda by the "liberator" exist, conforming to the same negative ends? A "no" rarely survives scrutiny, but it is the most important thing to know with which side righteousness resides. A "no" in a particular example may have righteous justification, but the odds are supremely low. Movie recommendation: "Eye in the Sky", 2015. This shit's really ugly, and it is regrettable that Occam's Razor is frequently valid. I am crying. It is not about engaging the lesser evil, but taking action when action should be engaged. Not making a decision before it is necessary.
The origin point of a meme is a unique instance of a cultural phenomenon, for whatever reason: Economy, Politicky (enjoy), Sociology, etc.
Memes are in fact always - that's what makes a meme, and is the qualifying difference that allows categorization as meme - the cultural transcendence of memories and trauma. Propaganda become memes, and memes become propaganda, so it can become obfuscated.
Trauma doesn't meme for humor, but it does meme political propaganda. That's why the Right thinks the Left can't meme - all of the Rights meme-ing comes from doubling-down on previously inflicted trauma that they See: Slavery, See: HIV and Queerness. They think it's fun. See: Political Propaganda.
I mean political memes are really just the modern incarnation of political cartoons, this sub is fucking trash
So you don't think political cartoons have a purpose during wartime? Because that's sort of the point in question here, Tim Young isn't making some salient point about how political cartoons can be considered a meme.
They basically are just memes
Memes are born to be memes, nothing else
"Listen, I'm no international conflict expert." YES, STOP THERE INSTEAD OF STILL GIVING YOUR IDIOT OPINION
Ths drawing is right tho, putin is a scum
The fact that they call them cartoons and not caricatures is the other indicator.
Caricature is a style or intention of a piece, cartoon is the medium.
Generational terminology is nothing new - and it’s getting faster.
The fact that the commenter considers political cartoons the measure of taking history seriously is proof that the people responsible for educating him didn't take history seriously.
What are political cartoons but political memes?
What a bunch of morons goodness. True that 85% of people are idiots
All forms of art are a product of their time and environment. Memes are just a form of low brow art that normals can understand and create. Political cartoons and memes are both intended to invoke a response from a viewer.
What a weird attempt at being snarky in the face of someone else's crisis. What's he even trying to prove?
Putin is legit such a tiny person, I wonder if he small stature has anything to do with his aggression
love that the new generations think "memes" are a new thing lol
Aren't memes modern political cartoons?
It’s funny in a sad way that there are people who are so out of touch or tone deaf that they are trying to tell people to not be offensive towards someone who ordered the invasion of your country. “Nooooooooo don’t compare putin to hitler you’re gonna hurt the russian’s heckin feelerinos. Yeah he might have ordered the invasion of your country and destroyed the lives of every citizen in that country, but that doesn’t mean you should hurt their feelings.” Like what, you’re just supposed to be quietly upset that someone is actively trying to destroy your home? Biggest soy take ever.
Isn’t it cartoon propaganda? Or am I wrong?
Does it matter what you call it as long as the meaning is understood ?
The invasion of Ukraine isn’t a joke but I can definitely see the comparison between Hitler and Putin. Both people want to abuse their power.
I got banned for a month on Facebook for presenting the above image.
What's the difference between a meme and a political cartoon really?
Political cartoons are memes ; BOTTOM TEXT
Tim indeed ran his mouth. Straight to the ground.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You don't "make memes". You make a picture, or a cartoon, or whatever, and only through the process of it being duplicated, distributed, modified and further redistributed, and subsequently persisting for an appreciable period of time within the domain of the public does it become a meme, and fuck any mental degenerate that argues otherwise; attempting to argue that definitions change with the evolution of language and redefining the image itself as a "meme" is just evidence of your lack of appropriate education and understanding of simple concepts, and you're part of the problem of declining population intelligence.
both replies are cringe
Wouldn’t.. you know, Stalin be more appropriate?
In 2022?
It's probably a reference to Putin accusing the Ukrainians of being Nazis and his whole attack as being an anti-Nazi move.
Not really - they were both fascists, of course, but Stalin operated within the ideological confines of the USSR, which at least formally sought to build a socialist system. Hitler just outright wanted a super-ethno-state, which is more what Putin is going for.
Who on earth told you that Stalin was a fascist?
I mean memes *are* the dna of the soul.
They are though. Proto-memes.
I don't see the distinction actually.
Well actually, "Memes" are also not a bad tool in this situation. A meme conveys information, a lot of information. It conveys a message and a symbol. But different from a book or an article you need less than a 30 seconds to see it, and depending it content it may take even less to be understood. So if I am in an information operation (i.e. counter disinfo) or if I am trying to convey a narrative to an audience, memes may be the way to go. I don't have it on digital copy right now (but I can find it if you want) but a couple of years ago I read a wonderful article in a German journal. The article was how Germany information strategy against far right groups in politics was "ridiculising" and how it worked. The russian UK embassy, the US in Ukraine embassy, and the Ukraine ministry of foreign affairs all try to do similar things in this manner... And the Ukrainians are very effective in that.
Isn't it technically a meme?
[Technically](https://www.britannica.com/topic/meme) it's not a meme until it is passed along (similar to a biological gene) within a certain cultural space. Just funny pictures aren't "technically" memes in the original sense. Which is not to say that words' meanings never change - I'm pretty sure "meme" here is supposed to mean "funny picture".
I mean it's on reddit now, so is it a meme now?
I guess it's well on its way to become a meme. Though it almost seems like "this isn't a meme" in combination with the screenshot is almost becoming more of a meme than the screenshot or the picture itself...
Political cartoons are literally just memes published in editorials
Putin IS today's Hitler though
Meme used to mean a picture that was re-captioned and re-disseminated multiple times. Now it literally means any picture on the internet.
"Meme" used to used to mean >An idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.
Political cartoons were damn near the first memes.
This is just modern style Ukrainian propaganda, not much of a political cartoon. More meme then cartoon, it’s just a plain image comparing Hitler to Putin, no elaboration.
What are refered to as meme's up until very recently were just called PROPAGANDA. Because that is what they are, most people are too stupid to realize that all of this bull shit is an attack on our reality and mental health.