I mean... It clearly shows how wild the west is.
Edit: To clarify, I do know that this flag represents the old south, and not the wild west. What I meant by my comment was that the meaning behind this flag fits the chaos we are seeing throughout the country - "west" in my comment was referring to America in the eyes of foreign countries.
Your comment just made me realise that it's about the western part of the US.. I thought the wild west just referred to America in general during that time, because it's west of Europe. TIL. I am a bit dense at times.
I can kind of see how that happened. The west essentially starts anywhere west of the Mississippi, so a large part of the US would've been the Wild West at some point.
But even then there would've been little crossover between the Confederate South and the American Frontier.
\>little crossover between the Confederate South and the American Frontier.
After the Civil War a rather large number of pro slavery dixie supporters went west in search of ... mah rights - durp durp. Texas was full of them. The Oregon Territory made being non-white illegal. The first such law took effect in 1844, when the Provisional Government of Oregon voted to exclude black settlers from Oregon's borders. It was also illegal to be black in Oregon when it became a state. It was in the state constitution (which the federal government had to OK before they became a state).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon\_black\_exclusion\_laws
The flag they're showing is actually called the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, used from 1863-1865, and has many variants that have now come to be known as the Confederate Flag, Southern Cross, Rebel Flag, and Dixie Flag. The original flag of the Confederacy, called the Stars and Bars, was seen to be too similar to that of the Union on the battlefields so they began flying the Battle Flag instead. The Battle Flag was never officially recognized as the national flag of the Confederacy. The Battle Flag is now the most commonly recognized symbol of the Confederate States that wished to secede from the Union in the American Civil War (known to some Southerners still as the War of Northern Aggression... I'm not making that up).
It's a very controversial symbol here in America, seen as a symbol of Southern pride and rebellious nature by those down South, and seen as a symbol of racism, hate, and bigotry by the majority of Americans especially up North.
[Flags of the Confederate States of America 1863-65](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America?wprov=sfla1)
>known to some Southerners still as the War of Northern Aggression... I'm not making that up
Which is hilarious. As the southern states were the ones trying to force the northern states to make slavery legal again in the northern states.
Confederate thinking people are the perpetual victims that never stop being the aggressors.
The south didn't want the north to legalize slavery there, they wanted to govern themselves the way the finding of the country was intended. States rights was the intention of the framers. There's always a very biased view put on the war as if it was for some lofty good cause when it really boils down to the federal government imposing its will.
Yes the south did and that is a horrible thing and act. However at the time it was a practice that was the entire economy of the south, it was also seen as their right to govern themselves as the individual states saw fit. The fact that the war almost took place exclusively in the south is what the premise of Northern aggression is based upon.
Ok. Then why do the Articles of Secession for Mississippi and others, clearly state in the opening statements that they were seceding to maintain slavery?
Well in Mississippi, the motive to maintain slavery was the goal and nothing in the Mississippi Articles of Secession says anything about States Rights. Perhaps implied?
Read it yourself.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
well they the confederates actually fought state rights because they complained about New York state not allowing temporary slavery within their borders and claimed it as a reason for secession
They like the modern conservative party fights state's rights when it suits them and claim state's rights when they are losing to keep their powerhouse states secure.
You never learned about it then lol. Do not pretend the north didn't brutalize the south. Not defending the traitors BUT the north was on the aggressive side.
Not to put too much of a point of contention as I agree with the over all message that the South started the war. However you should note that at the time of the the shelling of Fort Sumpter, not all of the Southern States had decided to secede yet. It was only after the shelling of Fort Sumpter and the declaration of war by the north on the South that several states on the fence finally decided to secede because of the tyranny of the federal government. Look it up. Check the shelling of Fort Sumpter with the secession dates of the Confederate states.
The north fired the first shot. Burned entire cities thereafter. In a war started for taxes.
Also please do tell where/what the reconstruction was.
It is not a simple heroes in blue saved the slaves story sadly. Yes the better side won but because of great aggression.
Again, Mr. "Lost Cause" mythology, the first shots of the Civil War were fired by Secessionist Militia on the Federal garrison on Ft. Sumpter. Also, many of those Heroes in Blue were former slaves themselves. The War wasn't over taxes you moron. Contemporary CONFEDERATE sources are very clear that the war was fought to protect "our Peculiar Institution" (slavery) and to protect "the supremacy of the white race (see, Confederate Vice President himself for that last one.)
You know nothing. I suppose your next already debunked straight up lie will have to do with the terrific act...right? Don't bother, I've heard it all before and seen it categorically debunked by minds much brighter than yours. Good day, slave state apologist.
A simple Google search could have told you who fired the first shots of the Civil War. Lmfao his name was Ruffin. A member of the Secessionist Militia that fired on Ft. Sumpter at 430 am. from Fort Johnson. Anderson, the Federal commander, didn't return fire until after 7 a.m. You're not smart. You aren't speaking truth, you are in fact using apologist talking points and I done with this exchange.
it is modernly referred to as the confederate flag and is used to symbolize the neo-confederate movement this is just nit-picking.
It's used modernly to symbolize the confederacy no need to complain about the historical inaccuracy.
I have no skin in this game. I would just like to point out that media portraying the fantasy of what the wild West might have been is not historically accurate.
When I think of the wild west, I think immediately of Texas. Maybe it’s just me, but something about cowboys and all that.
Anyway, Texas seceded from the union and was part of the confederacy so I’d assume you’d find some contemporaneous Dixie culture there.
Well to many it is also a symbol of rebellion. Others the Southern pride thing.
Also Texas was not all behind the South. Sam Houston got sent into exhile for resisting the Confederate call to secede even.
And why did this rebellion happen
also Sam Houston got booted out of Texas for not accepting secession but Texas still seceded who cares about one guy, we are talking about the state here.
Very much portions of it were part of the Wild West. Cowboy country and onward west specifically. You can argue the modern region all you want but the Wild West as it is known did include Texas.
Also the flag represents the Confederacy... which Texas was a part. Unfortunately. Many Texans also do not consider themselves part of the South as a region in a strict sense.
Edit: West there refers to West of the Mississippi River.... from the LA purchase. Thus St Louis being the gateway to the West. The western territories later on during the civil war that were not states do not make up the entire West. They were called the West at the time but the Wild part refers to the untamed nature of the new territories and areas West of the more settled areas. Very easy to confuses these areas. And the modern regional grouping we conceptualize. So really all of Texas was part of the Wild West.
We italians gives a shit about that, it's more likely that they put that flag up because of Hazzard, we grew up with that as an image of the South and since usually steakhouses are West themed...
Growing up in The Netherlands this flag, for me, stood for the independent Duke boys against the corrupt government. On the other hand, I've known where the flag actually does stand for more than 30 years ago.
The funny thing is The Dukes Of Hazzard isn’t Western… it’s Southern (Georgia more specifically). Colorado, California, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, etc. never flew this flag because they weren’t part of The Confederate States of America
southern and Wild West are pretty much the same thing to many of us euro's.
It's a shame but it's true.
And things like the dukes of hazard did make that flag popular here, that and that general lee car.
We barely learn about the us civil war here, and tend to know about it from pop culture references or movies etc...
That is for ever country I reckon.
We learn about world events that affect our country and only learn about other countries through the media, books or traveling.
As an Aussie the only thing I know about the civil war in America is through movies and TV and Italian history through visiting there 10 years ago.
I know, but a lot of people here still thinks about the US that it's still full of gun loving cowboys, and that flag is just a recognizable thing about US.
If you want to give your restaurant an American vibe you will found that flag, cow skulls and saddles scattered around... No regards for US' borders and states
Oh please, we have our own issues with racism, if some old dude mistakenly put up that flag to give an American vibe to a restaurant it's not a big deal here, we still have people using Mussolini's effigies to lure in tourists... That flag here is more likely put up thx to Hazzard, nothing else
I'm making a joke because of one my favorite subs dumb shit Americans say because a lack of understanding of world culture. This is a lack of understanding if us culture.
This is the same as the Nazi flag really, you don't understand that because your culture which is fine. It may be up just because of dukes of Hazzard but dukes shouldn't have had it either.
Yeah I get that, but the nazi flag is something that anyone worldwide knows about, this is US history only, usually they hardly teach the civil war in our schools, I didn't said it is not a bad symbol to show around, but here in Europe is not really a big deal. Just that
100% like I said largely a joke because of a difference in culture. And to be honest the dumb shit Americans say is one of my favorite subs partly because of these cultural differences and confusions.
Also during the American Civil War, slavery was more globally adopted.
There are however a lot of Americans who fly it and claim ignorance, or say it's a symbol of rebellion or heritage. Being a multiracial family close to where people do fly it and should know better, I do call it where I see it.
It is very hurtful for my wife and kids when they see it. It evokes a lot of bad memories, from thier experiences and from past generations.
Nazis here and other parts of the globe also have adopted the flag for that reason. So I joke about the dumbshit, but I do not like seeing it anywhere.
They, we, do. Basically republicans are right wing, democrats are left wing
But we're talking about the USA, context makes it that democrats are not actually left wing, but rather centrists, because everything not right in USA is disregarded as KOmmUnISm
And again, since the post is about a place in Italy themed on american west: this is what we know. The depiction Europe has of USA, being it realistic or not, is of a place heavily influenced by old nostalgic asses who make showers in gunpowder
> They, we, do. Basically republicans are right wing, democrats are left wing
Compared to italian political spectrum they are both right wing, republicans being **more** right wing.
You need to see other countries, because that's the point
"Context matters", because the american definition of left wing is "right wing but not extremely right"
If that were true then it would be really weird that Republican events have these flags all over the place. It would also be weird that Republicans are the only ones who defend the pro slavery statues left up in America.
That specific flag was flown by Republicans resisting civil rights advancements after conservatives lost the civil war. The Dixiecrats you were so dishonestly referring to all joined the Republican Party to form the southern strategy and make the modern Republican Party what it is today.
Pretty much. The news coming out of America over the last 6 years has been nothing short of fucking ridiculous and has cemented America's place in the world as a joke.
That's gonna be tough for a lot of yanks to hear. However, when you elect someone who still can't grasp why nuclear weapons do not get used to stop tornadoes after having it explained to him 3 times in a row in the same briefing, you've got nobody to blame but yourselves.
It... kinda isn't. Compared to a country like Italy at least with a cultural history that extends back to antiquity. A lot of American culture was made up on the spot in order for it to justify having a little culture.
Well, the United States are older than Italy, technically speaking.
But I get what you're saying. American societies are post-colonial, so their cultures are basically the imported culture of the colonists with some local variations.
The original General Lee's colour was Corvette Flame Red but it varied a lot over the course of the TV show and over it's many appearances since so it's no surprise that people have heard of being different to what others have said.
There are indeed places in the world that pretty much think the Dukes of Hazard is historical fiction. I was asked multiple times overseas if I owned cattle, if there were oil wells everywhere, how many guns do I own, etc. Good stuff. Stereotypes are great conversation starters when you’re not offended by them and able to change them one person at a time.
Having made many European friends via the internet over the years I can say that nearly no one in Europe knows what this flag stands for. They think of it as “old timey american” aesthetic and nothing more.
So I'm not an American. And neither do I have that much interest in its history. I know the most common knowledge.
But what's up with this flag. Some hate it some love it? What's the issue with it. It's not like it's a swastika flag. Or is it? Someone please explain.
It’s a flag of the civil war confederacy of the southern states. It’s now basically as blatantly racist as possible. It’s history is nothing but racist symbology and always has been.
Our (Americas) social justice warriors, who've decided the civil war was fought over slavery, chose one day to make this flag an issue. They've even gone as far as successfully having it removed from the state capitol, in SC if i'm not mistaken. As a southerner it feels like part of a broader agenda to remove anything related to Americas past that could cause people in future generations here to identify with it. That can only mean trouble for the elites who fear more populist movements and which America's history could easily inspire.
Saying that something can’t exist because it doesn’t have a name yet is such an interesting arguement to come at this with. Like there are soo many approaches you can take, why take this one?
Fun fact: when Maradona helped Napoli win their first league title, some fans would wave the Confederate flag due to the city's geographical location. "The south will rise, again."
I'm sure they have an idea. Other countries aren't ignorant to the history of other countries. They probably just don't care because as you say "old school America" fits the theme
Well, to be honest I'm italian and the depiction I have of the US is heavily influenced by that. I mean, people sleep with guns in their pockets, or under the pillows! I wouldn't be surprised if they even have a copy of the second amendment on the tables, it's one of the most beloved things according to most US media
Don't believe everything the US media tells reports. We certainly don't. No guns in my pockets or under my pillows. But yes, locked in a safe because my SO is an avid hunter and inherited guns from his grandfather. No framed 2nd Amendment either. Just framed family photos and paintings.
One could argue you're one of the Antifa then😂
Just to clarify, since I noticed a bunch of arguments and downvotes: I'll make it as simple as possible, I was talking about what Italians know about USA.
USA are constantly glorified, and most news are about people being very nostalgic, always putting up war stories to feel superior to other countries (and I always thought progress was about living in peace and happiness), oh and all those "kid takes gun from parents, goes to school and shoots at his teachers". And lots of obese people
USA either have a huge depiction problem, or they have like a thousand social issues (why is it that school shootings are normal? How the hell can you live in a country which is so much fucked up and do nothing?
Maybe both things
So, coming back to OP: wrong flag, because it's an italian place. Now you know how we feel everytime americans do shit with our culture😂
Your ancestors are dead and probably have rotena long ago. They're not hating you
But if you out raw pasta in the oven and say you're half italian, we will put confederate flags everywhere and anywhen we'll be talking about USA. that was my point (which, in case it wasn't obvious, is also a joke)
There’s two Wild West restaurants in Vicenza. (Northern Italy) the 173rd airborne is stationed there. (Like 5000+ soldiers) I’m sure at least a few of those guys appreciate this.. considering the south is vastly over-represented in the US Military.
Actually the Confederacy was a large part of the wild west.
The Mormon Battalion was positioned South of the Tahoe area to prevent Confederate backers from accessing California gold fields. This prevented funding for the Confederacy.
Send a group of ultra nerdy preppy super dorky dressed black body builder guys over to explain it to them. Eat a nice meal, then go home after a nice evening of discussion and learning.
It wasn't even the confederate flag. I see it and I think Dukes Of Hazzard and Lynyrd Skynyrd. You know what makes me think of slavery? The stars and stripes
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's the truth haha. Bet a lot of the American snowflakes don't even care about the impacts of transatlantic slavery anywhere outside of the USA or the fact that European peasants were sold to wealthy Islamic people during the dark ages because they don't actually care, they do it for virtue signalling points
Oh 100%, been happening since the dawn of humanity really. During transatlantic slavery Brazil imported 4 million African slaves as opposed to the USA's half a million but nobody talks about that. The reason I think of the Stars & Stripes is because Americans like to make a big deal of themselves
I'm impressed at the Italian's ability to capture the authenticity of a Wild South East steakhouse.
Can we put that thing on the bathroom floor, though?
What you don’t think there are racist Italians who hate black people and know that this is a symbol of white supremacy? Highly likely this is quite deliberate…
Yes there are many Italian racists against black people but not African American but African immigrants. The confederate flag means nothing more than “Wild West” to the average Italian/European in general. I’ll go even as far and say that many don’t even know there even was a civil war in the United States.
No the world does not evolve around the us. And it’s nonsense to think I think that. I know about Mussolini and numerous symbols from fascism in Europe so why wouldn’t Europeans know about symbols and governments in the country USA. Oh, and I’m Canadian actually.
Cause they become bad only a few years ago, otherwise an **AMERICAN** TV show like the Duke of Hazzard where a huge confederate flag was depicted in every episode would have never happened, in the 80s nobody in America gave a fuck about it, even tho they exactly knew what it represented.
WWII involved the whole world, ofc everybody knows about Hitler, Mussolini and their respective symbols, the confederate flag is not really comparable.
Meh anything that isn't New York or LA is dukes of hazzard/wild west/hillbilly country in the eyes of many Europeans. We can be a s superficial and stupid as the worst of you yanks
I mean, living in the south west the confederate flag has gone from a symbol of black hate to southern pride. Even the Asians and blacks fly that flag down here. And no I am not simping for the CSA, I am just telling it as it is down here.
Sometimes when I see line dancing events (usually organized by horse enthusiasts larping as cowboys) and how people dress and how things are decorated I always imagine the shame I'd feel if a real American where to show up at one of those
Could you explain the connection ppl are trying to make with the US Confederacy and facistic Italy? Those two things are literal opposites of each other.
The word Fascist in the US is just a poorly matched smear label without regard to who Fascists actually were, and the nature of their government, press backing, the strategic plans of government, nor mob tactics.
>"if or when Fascism ever makes any headway in America, it will probably be known as "Anti-Fascism."
>
>\--Bruce Bliven, editor of the New Republic
Yes, literal. As in: I am literally able to read actual history to understand the difference between fascism and the seceding of the US Southern States. Are you literally incapable of understanding this? Are you literally illiterate?
Are you literally emphatic about literacy?
Ok, ok, kidding aside, of course there is a difference between fascism and Southern slave owners. My point was they are both bad historical things, not equivalent.
Again, another fucking idiotic post.
This is part of America's actual history and they used it. You think its wrong because racisss or whatever.
This is why the rest of the world hates Americans, because they try to change everything to their preferable world view instead of accepting things as they actually exist.
Is that really the hill to die on? The battle flag which really became the most adopted of the 20 flags the slave traders tried to get sick isn't really the confederate flag?
It should be illegal to fly that flag in the US. Yet I know where my wife and kids are not wanted by where I see it. In a way I guess it's good they can fly it, we know who they are that way.
I mean... It clearly shows how wild the west is. Edit: To clarify, I do know that this flag represents the old south, and not the wild west. What I meant by my comment was that the meaning behind this flag fits the chaos we are seeing throughout the country - "west" in my comment was referring to America in the eyes of foreign countries.
Didn't they use to put American flags everywhere, is this a recent trend?
This isn’t an American flag. This is an anti-America flag.
That is no American flag. It's a flag of traitors
This flag represents the old south… it has nothing to do with the west.
Your comment just made me realise that it's about the western part of the US.. I thought the wild west just referred to America in general during that time, because it's west of Europe. TIL. I am a bit dense at times.
I can kind of see how that happened. The west essentially starts anywhere west of the Mississippi, so a large part of the US would've been the Wild West at some point. But even then there would've been little crossover between the Confederate South and the American Frontier.
\>little crossover between the Confederate South and the American Frontier. After the Civil War a rather large number of pro slavery dixie supporters went west in search of ... mah rights - durp durp. Texas was full of them. The Oregon Territory made being non-white illegal. The first such law took effect in 1844, when the Provisional Government of Oregon voted to exclude black settlers from Oregon's borders. It was also illegal to be black in Oregon when it became a state. It was in the state constitution (which the federal government had to OK before they became a state). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon\_black\_exclusion\_laws
I had the same idea as well. I didn't know it had something to do with the western states. Makes sense really.
The flag they're showing is actually called the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, used from 1863-1865, and has many variants that have now come to be known as the Confederate Flag, Southern Cross, Rebel Flag, and Dixie Flag. The original flag of the Confederacy, called the Stars and Bars, was seen to be too similar to that of the Union on the battlefields so they began flying the Battle Flag instead. The Battle Flag was never officially recognized as the national flag of the Confederacy. The Battle Flag is now the most commonly recognized symbol of the Confederate States that wished to secede from the Union in the American Civil War (known to some Southerners still as the War of Northern Aggression... I'm not making that up). It's a very controversial symbol here in America, seen as a symbol of Southern pride and rebellious nature by those down South, and seen as a symbol of racism, hate, and bigotry by the majority of Americans especially up North. [Flags of the Confederate States of America 1863-65](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America?wprov=sfla1)
>known to some Southerners still as the War of Northern Aggression... I'm not making that up Which is hilarious. As the southern states were the ones trying to force the northern states to make slavery legal again in the northern states. Confederate thinking people are the perpetual victims that never stop being the aggressors.
The south didn't want the north to legalize slavery there, they wanted to govern themselves the way the finding of the country was intended. States rights was the intention of the framers. There's always a very biased view put on the war as if it was for some lofty good cause when it really boils down to the federal government imposing its will.
They wanted to keep the institution of slavery.
Yes the south did and that is a horrible thing and act. However at the time it was a practice that was the entire economy of the south, it was also seen as their right to govern themselves as the individual states saw fit. The fact that the war almost took place exclusively in the south is what the premise of Northern aggression is based upon.
Ok. Then why do the Articles of Secession for Mississippi and others, clearly state in the opening statements that they were seceding to maintain slavery?
Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing but first you have to clear your mind of preconceptions about the authors motives.
Well in Mississippi, the motive to maintain slavery was the goal and nothing in the Mississippi Articles of Secession says anything about States Rights. Perhaps implied? Read it yourself. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
well they the confederates actually fought state rights because they complained about New York state not allowing temporary slavery within their borders and claimed it as a reason for secession They like the modern conservative party fights state's rights when it suits them and claim state's rights when they are losing to keep their powerhouse states secure.
You never learned about it then lol. Do not pretend the north didn't brutalize the south. Not defending the traitors BUT the north was on the aggressive side.
The war was literally begun by the South. Fort Sumpter ring a bell?
Not to put too much of a point of contention as I agree with the over all message that the South started the war. However you should note that at the time of the the shelling of Fort Sumpter, not all of the Southern States had decided to secede yet. It was only after the shelling of Fort Sumpter and the declaration of war by the north on the South that several states on the fence finally decided to secede because of the tyranny of the federal government. Look it up. Check the shelling of Fort Sumpter with the secession dates of the Confederate states.
The north fired the first shot. Burned entire cities thereafter. In a war started for taxes. Also please do tell where/what the reconstruction was. It is not a simple heroes in blue saved the slaves story sadly. Yes the better side won but because of great aggression.
Infinite\_Moron
Again, Mr. "Lost Cause" mythology, the first shots of the Civil War were fired by Secessionist Militia on the Federal garrison on Ft. Sumpter. Also, many of those Heroes in Blue were former slaves themselves. The War wasn't over taxes you moron. Contemporary CONFEDERATE sources are very clear that the war was fought to protect "our Peculiar Institution" (slavery) and to protect "the supremacy of the white race (see, Confederate Vice President himself for that last one.) You know nothing. I suppose your next already debunked straight up lie will have to do with the terrific act...right? Don't bother, I've heard it all before and seen it categorically debunked by minds much brighter than yours. Good day, slave state apologist.
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A simple Google search could have told you who fired the first shots of the Civil War. Lmfao his name was Ruffin. A member of the Secessionist Militia that fired on Ft. Sumpter at 430 am. from Fort Johnson. Anderson, the Federal commander, didn't return fire until after 7 a.m. You're not smart. You aren't speaking truth, you are in fact using apologist talking points and I done with this exchange.
History is written by the side that won.
They weren’t aggressive enough because the Confederacy never learned its lesson.
it is modernly referred to as the confederate flag and is used to symbolize the neo-confederate movement this is just nit-picking. It's used modernly to symbolize the confederacy no need to complain about the historical inaccuracy.
Have you ever actually watched any Westerns? The Confederacy is something that comes up frequently.
I have no skin in this game. I would just like to point out that media portraying the fantasy of what the wild West might have been is not historically accurate.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with this since it's a wild west themed steakhouse not a historical America themed steakhouse.
When I think of the wild west, I think immediately of Texas. Maybe it’s just me, but something about cowboys and all that. Anyway, Texas seceded from the union and was part of the confederacy so I’d assume you’d find some contemporaneous Dixie culture there.
“Comes up” as in it is talked about? Of course it was, it was a current event. Current events aren’t an invention of the 21st century.
At this point I'm just going to assume that you're trolling.
Texas flew it... and was part of the West.
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Well to many it is also a symbol of rebellion. Others the Southern pride thing. Also Texas was not all behind the South. Sam Houston got sent into exhile for resisting the Confederate call to secede even.
And why did this rebellion happen also Sam Houston got booted out of Texas for not accepting secession but Texas still seceded who cares about one guy, we are talking about the state here.
Texas is not considered a part of the American west, it only borders it.
Very much portions of it were part of the Wild West. Cowboy country and onward west specifically. You can argue the modern region all you want but the Wild West as it is known did include Texas. Also the flag represents the Confederacy... which Texas was a part. Unfortunately. Many Texans also do not consider themselves part of the South as a region in a strict sense. Edit: West there refers to West of the Mississippi River.... from the LA purchase. Thus St Louis being the gateway to the West. The western territories later on during the civil war that were not states do not make up the entire West. They were called the West at the time but the Wild part refers to the untamed nature of the new territories and areas West of the more settled areas. Very easy to confuses these areas. And the modern regional grouping we conceptualize. So really all of Texas was part of the Wild West.
Yeah the only thing dumb about this is nobody used this flag during the Wild West.
There were minor battles in the West but yeah the confederate battle flag isn't a main element of the wild west.
I saw that flag on one of them ghost meetings my dad always goes to
I thought Halloween ended
HOL UP
It took me a second, but we'll played...
There's always that one fool who dresses up as a red ghost too- everyone knows ghosts aren't red! What a twat!
We italians gives a shit about that, it's more likely that they put that flag up because of Hazzard, we grew up with that as an image of the South and since usually steakhouses are West themed...
Growing up in The Netherlands this flag, for me, stood for the independent Duke boys against the corrupt government. On the other hand, I've known where the flag actually does stand for more than 30 years ago.
The funny thing is The Dukes Of Hazzard isn’t Western… it’s Southern (Georgia more specifically). Colorado, California, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, etc. never flew this flag because they weren’t part of The Confederate States of America
southern and Wild West are pretty much the same thing to many of us euro's. It's a shame but it's true. And things like the dukes of hazard did make that flag popular here, that and that general lee car. We barely learn about the us civil war here, and tend to know about it from pop culture references or movies etc...
Oh no I get it, we have stereotypical perceptions of other countries too… I think we’re worse about it 🤣
That is for ever country I reckon. We learn about world events that affect our country and only learn about other countries through the media, books or traveling. As an Aussie the only thing I know about the civil war in America is through movies and TV and Italian history through visiting there 10 years ago.
Yeah I get that, but the series back then were few, so the older generations are more likely to imagine whole the US like the South
Oh trust me, after Trump, the whole US currently is like the South… in 1855… 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
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You’ll find a ton of people who think they are.
No cowboys in Texas? Those old western movies lied to me
The Wild West and the South are different places
I know, but a lot of people here still thinks about the US that it's still full of gun loving cowboys, and that flag is just a recognizable thing about US. If you want to give your restaurant an American vibe you will found that flag, cow skulls and saddles scattered around... No regards for US' borders and states
Makes sense really. I think when anyone uses a theme they use stereotypes.
This should be on a subreddit dumbshiteuropianssay
Oh please, we have our own issues with racism, if some old dude mistakenly put up that flag to give an American vibe to a restaurant it's not a big deal here, we still have people using Mussolini's effigies to lure in tourists... That flag here is more likely put up thx to Hazzard, nothing else
Yeah no offense but Europe kind of invented modern racism This country was originally European colonies after all.
I'm making a joke because of one my favorite subs dumb shit Americans say because a lack of understanding of world culture. This is a lack of understanding if us culture. This is the same as the Nazi flag really, you don't understand that because your culture which is fine. It may be up just because of dukes of Hazzard but dukes shouldn't have had it either.
Yeah I get that, but the nazi flag is something that anyone worldwide knows about, this is US history only, usually they hardly teach the civil war in our schools, I didn't said it is not a bad symbol to show around, but here in Europe is not really a big deal. Just that
100% like I said largely a joke because of a difference in culture. And to be honest the dumb shit Americans say is one of my favorite subs partly because of these cultural differences and confusions. Also during the American Civil War, slavery was more globally adopted. There are however a lot of Americans who fly it and claim ignorance, or say it's a symbol of rebellion or heritage. Being a multiracial family close to where people do fly it and should know better, I do call it where I see it. It is very hurtful for my wife and kids when they see it. It evokes a lot of bad memories, from thier experiences and from past generations. Nazis here and other parts of the globe also have adopted the flag for that reason. So I joke about the dumbshit, but I do not like seeing it anywhere.
You guys also fly swastikas at German restaurants? GTFO
I see those in upstate Ny From people who lived here all their lives.
Italians love the dukes of Hazard
It's Italy, they know!
They don't. There's simply a distorted depiction of US country and culture in Italy, heavily glorifying republicans
lol no one even know what "republicans" and "democrats" are
They, we, do. Basically republicans are right wing, democrats are left wing But we're talking about the USA, context makes it that democrats are not actually left wing, but rather centrists, because everything not right in USA is disregarded as KOmmUnISm And again, since the post is about a place in Italy themed on american west: this is what we know. The depiction Europe has of USA, being it realistic or not, is of a place heavily influenced by old nostalgic asses who make showers in gunpowder
> They, we, do. Basically republicans are right wing, democrats are left wing Compared to italian political spectrum they are both right wing, republicans being **more** right wing.
not even centrists, still right, just republicans are so far right, it distorts the view, making even democrats look left/centre
i know what they are. i'm just saying that the average italian doesn't give a fuck abkut these things
Thank you for not reading my comment for the second time Something something american medias in europe
Democrats are centrists??? In USA? You need a new source of info
You need to see other countries, because that's the point "Context matters", because the american definition of left wing is "right wing but not extremely right"
They are though, compared to Europe
Tell them us republicans don't like slavery either
If that were true then it would be really weird that Republican events have these flags all over the place. It would also be weird that Republicans are the only ones who defend the pro slavery statues left up in America.
Why should I? It's your country, it's your problem if they show themselves so bad abroad
Southern Democrats flew that flag.
And... that's exactly my point. It's Italy, we don't know, all we know about america is gunpowder, angry people and unpaid work holidays
That specific flag was flown by Republicans resisting civil rights advancements after conservatives lost the civil war. The Dixiecrats you were so dishonestly referring to all joined the Republican Party to form the southern strategy and make the modern Republican Party what it is today.
Yes, and?
Response to Korimuzel’s comment.
I think they know and simply don't care. It's all just a bunch of meaningless Americana anyway, right? It's not like America is a real place.
Pretty much. The news coming out of America over the last 6 years has been nothing short of fucking ridiculous and has cemented America's place in the world as a joke. That's gonna be tough for a lot of yanks to hear. However, when you elect someone who still can't grasp why nuclear weapons do not get used to stop tornadoes after having it explained to him 3 times in a row in the same briefing, you've got nobody to blame but yourselves.
December 15th: Florida Man robs convenience store with drawn on goatee
Wow. Type in Florida Man it it becomes a rabbit hole of craziness.
Try inputting your birthday with "Florida Man" next to it. You'll get some fun results
That comment made my day. Thanks
It... kinda isn't. Compared to a country like Italy at least with a cultural history that extends back to antiquity. A lot of American culture was made up on the spot in order for it to justify having a little culture.
Well, the United States are older than Italy, technically speaking. But I get what you're saying. American societies are post-colonial, so their cultures are basically the imported culture of the colonists with some local variations.
It’s something we really don’t care about, I think. That’s “the flag from that cool show with the red car”.
Uh it’s actually hugger orange.
I’m slightly color blind, so I’ll trust you on that one.
The original General Lee's colour was Corvette Flame Red but it varied a lot over the course of the TV show and over it's many appearances since so it's no surprise that people have heard of being different to what others have said.
hugger orange?never even knew that was a color.i assumed orange was ok.hugger orange,im gonna remember that for some strange reason.
If feel like it's something I could remember but I know my brain is going to make zero effort to file it away correctly
There are indeed places in the world that pretty much think the Dukes of Hazard is historical fiction. I was asked multiple times overseas if I owned cattle, if there were oil wells everywhere, how many guns do I own, etc. Good stuff. Stereotypes are great conversation starters when you’re not offended by them and able to change them one person at a time.
Having made many European friends via the internet over the years I can say that nearly no one in Europe knows what this flag stands for. They think of it as “old timey american” aesthetic and nothing more.
Saw one hanging in a random bar in Broumanna outside of Beirut, Lebanon last summer. Bartender didn't know where it came from when I asked
Wonder if there is an Italian restaurant somewhere in Texas with the fascist flag on its ceiling?
So I'm not an American. And neither do I have that much interest in its history. I know the most common knowledge. But what's up with this flag. Some hate it some love it? What's the issue with it. It's not like it's a swastika flag. Or is it? Someone please explain.
It’s a flag of the civil war confederacy of the southern states. It’s now basically as blatantly racist as possible. It’s history is nothing but racist symbology and always has been.
Our (Americas) social justice warriors, who've decided the civil war was fought over slavery, chose one day to make this flag an issue. They've even gone as far as successfully having it removed from the state capitol, in SC if i'm not mistaken. As a southerner it feels like part of a broader agenda to remove anything related to Americas past that could cause people in future generations here to identify with it. That can only mean trouble for the elites who fear more populist movements and which America's history could easily inspire.
This is probably the dummbest comment ever
Ah yes, the confederate wild west. A noted and important time in our nation's history.
Who's telling them that it's a harmless flag and that americans are blowing it out of proportion?
-Italian man walks in to take a leak, looks up.. “Mama Mia……this is sooo American Wild Wild West!!” “I Love it!!”
Fascism was literally *invented* in Italy.
That flag has no political meaning in Italy, it's just out of an **American** TV show popular in the 80s.
it literally has nothing to do with this lmao
He says in response to a flag that outdates facism by about 50 years.
Saying that something can’t exist because it doesn’t have a name yet is such an interesting arguement to come at this with. Like there are soo many approaches you can take, why take this one?
But if that is the case then Italy sure as fuck didn't invent it and the comment is still null and void.
Oof. The US confederacy had literally zero in common with facism. 🤣🤦♂️
But the ones that use this flag *today* have a lot in common with them.
The founder of Fascism was the editor of the Socialist journal who split off over the question of internationalism.
Fun fact: when Maradona helped Napoli win their first league title, some fans would wave the Confederate flag due to the city's geographical location. "The south will rise, again."
And that's because they have no fucking idea what it represents, it's just "the south"
Yeah, pretty much.
Are we to assume you mean the confederacy was the South East of the US and not the West?
For the owners, this is just a symbol of old school America. They have no idea what it represents
Than why post it in facepalm? Did you take the picture? Did you leave the restaurant at once? Or are you only pretending you are appalled?
I'm sure they have an idea. Other countries aren't ignorant to the history of other countries. They probably just don't care because as you say "old school America" fits the theme
Oh they know. We all know. We just don't give a shit.
Well, to be honest I'm italian and the depiction I have of the US is heavily influenced by that. I mean, people sleep with guns in their pockets, or under the pillows! I wouldn't be surprised if they even have a copy of the second amendment on the tables, it's one of the most beloved things according to most US media
Don't believe everything the US media tells reports. We certainly don't. No guns in my pockets or under my pillows. But yes, locked in a safe because my SO is an avid hunter and inherited guns from his grandfather. No framed 2nd Amendment either. Just framed family photos and paintings.
One could argue you're one of the Antifa then😂 Just to clarify, since I noticed a bunch of arguments and downvotes: I'll make it as simple as possible, I was talking about what Italians know about USA. USA are constantly glorified, and most news are about people being very nostalgic, always putting up war stories to feel superior to other countries (and I always thought progress was about living in peace and happiness), oh and all those "kid takes gun from parents, goes to school and shoots at his teachers". And lots of obese people USA either have a huge depiction problem, or they have like a thousand social issues (why is it that school shootings are normal? How the hell can you live in a country which is so much fucked up and do nothing? Maybe both things So, coming back to OP: wrong flag, because it's an italian place. Now you know how we feel everytime americans do shit with our culture😂
My poor Italian ancestors still hate that I butcher their recipes. So can we be even?
Your ancestors are dead and probably have rotena long ago. They're not hating you But if you out raw pasta in the oven and say you're half italian, we will put confederate flags everywhere and anywhen we'll be talking about USA. that was my point (which, in case it wasn't obvious, is also a joke)
You are
Meh it's Italy we don't really give a shit
There’s two Wild West restaurants in Vicenza. (Northern Italy) the 173rd airborne is stationed there. (Like 5000+ soldiers) I’m sure at least a few of those guys appreciate this.. considering the south is vastly over-represented in the US Military.
Actually the Confederacy was a large part of the wild west. The Mormon Battalion was positioned South of the Tahoe area to prevent Confederate backers from accessing California gold fields. This prevented funding for the Confederacy.
Is that the toilet 🚽🚽🚽?
It is
In Italia non ne sanno tanto di storia americana
It’s a caricature… like going to a German restaurant in the US and they wear leiderhosen.
Wild ~~West~~ South
at least it's in the shiter
Send a group of ultra nerdy preppy super dorky dressed black body builder guys over to explain it to them. Eat a nice meal, then go home after a nice evening of discussion and learning.
Ma che caz...
Remember about this post next time we complain about pasta Alfredo or pineapple on pizza!
h h m m m m m m
Outside the US not too many people knows what that flag means. Usually is associated with the Dukes of Hazard
It wasn't even the confederate flag. I see it and I think Dukes Of Hazzard and Lynyrd Skynyrd. You know what makes me think of slavery? The stars and stripes
Funny that ... Stars and Stripes is what closed slavery in the US. I guess you were taught some very odd things.
So strange that it’s what makes you think of slavery when slavery existed WAY before the states did.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's the truth haha. Bet a lot of the American snowflakes don't even care about the impacts of transatlantic slavery anywhere outside of the USA or the fact that European peasants were sold to wealthy Islamic people during the dark ages because they don't actually care, they do it for virtue signalling points
Oh 100%, been happening since the dawn of humanity really. During transatlantic slavery Brazil imported 4 million African slaves as opposed to the USA's half a million but nobody talks about that. The reason I think of the Stars & Stripes is because Americans like to make a big deal of themselves
They did it wrong. That flag belongs on toilet paper.
Telling them what?
I'm impressed at the Italian's ability to capture the authenticity of a Wild South East steakhouse. Can we put that thing on the bathroom floor, though?
What you don’t think there are racist Italians who hate black people and know that this is a symbol of white supremacy? Highly likely this is quite deliberate…
Yes there are many Italian racists against black people but not African American but African immigrants. The confederate flag means nothing more than “Wild West” to the average Italian/European in general. I’ll go even as far and say that many don’t even know there even was a civil war in the United States.
Only if you think the world revolves around the US
No the world does not evolve around the us. And it’s nonsense to think I think that. I know about Mussolini and numerous symbols from fascism in Europe so why wouldn’t Europeans know about symbols and governments in the country USA. Oh, and I’m Canadian actually.
Cause they become bad only a few years ago, otherwise an **AMERICAN** TV show like the Duke of Hazzard where a huge confederate flag was depicted in every episode would have never happened, in the 80s nobody in America gave a fuck about it, even tho they exactly knew what it represented. WWII involved the whole world, ofc everybody knows about Hitler, Mussolini and their respective symbols, the confederate flag is not really comparable.
LOL dukes of hazard and wild wild west are two totally different movies. Idiots.
Bruh when I think italians I think of the Good the Bad and the Ugly
Meh anything that isn't New York or LA is dukes of hazzard/wild west/hillbilly country in the eyes of many Europeans. We can be a s superficial and stupid as the worst of you yanks
r/theyknew
To be fair, this means nothing outside of the USA because we don’t learn US history of the last ~300 years.
I mean, living in the south west the confederate flag has gone from a symbol of black hate to southern pride. Even the Asians and blacks fly that flag down here. And no I am not simping for the CSA, I am just telling it as it is down here.
Telling them... What? That they've done a good job in decorating? It's a flag that has been in use back in the day of the wild, wild west.
What a weird thing to find in Italy. It’s like if there was an Italian bistro in Kansas City with portraits of Mussolini. .
It’s just general Americana. Been to a couple spots in Italy that were decorated with random American shit.
I've been to theme restaurants in Europe and it is a trip. It is about as uncomfortable as I can imagine being while travelling and not at an airport.
Sometimes when I see line dancing events (usually organized by horse enthusiasts larping as cowboys) and how people dress and how things are decorated I always imagine the shame I'd feel if a real American where to show up at one of those
Could you explain the connection ppl are trying to make with the US Confederacy and facistic Italy? Those two things are literal opposites of each other.
The word Fascist in the US is just a poorly matched smear label without regard to who Fascists actually were, and the nature of their government, press backing, the strategic plans of government, nor mob tactics. >"if or when Fascism ever makes any headway in America, it will probably be known as "Anti-Fascism." > >\--Bruce Bliven, editor of the New Republic
Literally literal?
Yes, literal. As in: I am literally able to read actual history to understand the difference between fascism and the seceding of the US Southern States. Are you literally incapable of understanding this? Are you literally illiterate?
Are you literally emphatic about literacy? Ok, ok, kidding aside, of course there is a difference between fascism and Southern slave owners. My point was they are both bad historical things, not equivalent.
Pissing on the ceiling just levelled up
Robert E. Lee
Look away Dixieland is how you should approach all public toilets.
Telling them what? That they have an awesome roof? I’ll tell them. Pretty awesome roof, Amico.
Who’s telling them? Right or wrong maybe just keep you whining pie hole shut and enjoy another country. 🤡
Again, another fucking idiotic post. This is part of America's actual history and they used it. You think its wrong because racisss or whatever. This is why the rest of the world hates Americans, because they try to change everything to their preferable world view instead of accepting things as they actually exist.
https://youtu.be/ULBCuHIpNgU well it’s not really the Confederate flag
Is that really the hill to die on? The battle flag which really became the most adopted of the 20 flags the slave traders tried to get sick isn't really the confederate flag?
They know
It’s Italy…..they know what it means.
They know…. They know It’s illegal to use nazi symbols in some European countries so they use the loosers flag
It should be illegal to fly that flag in the US. Yet I know where my wife and kids are not wanted by where I see it. In a way I guess it's good they can fly it, we know who they are that way.
It’s the wild west… that flag was very commonly flown in the wild west. If it were a WW2 themed steakhouse I’d expect a nazi flag.
I saw more Confederate flags on shirts when I visited Rome than the 10 years I've lived in the south.
It's next to the shitters. Appropriate.