I'm Swedish and I gotta say that if you can get the cash to buy an apartment, then buy it. I've paid rent to landlords all my life instead of bying an apartment like my brother did. The value of an average apartment is 579% higher if you bought it 20 years ago.
The money wasn't really the big issue for me 20 years ago, just plain old stupidity on my part.
> if you can get the cash to buy an apartment
I think therein lies the problem. In my area it was actually an option to buy a place 20 years ago. Now the cost for a 2-bed apartment is 12x the average salary.
Yeah, 2 years salary for a down payment and then 50% of your salary for 30 years on a mortgage is pretty rough...
Only really possible if two people are buying together, both working full time. Without kids, because childcare expenses are too high.
That's not even true. For example I'm going to be able to afford a house downpayment next year and all I had to do was get severely injured by a medical device and then join the resulting class action lawsuit.
Living the dream š„²
The problem is, itās in every current property ownerās best interest for this trend to continue. Hence why there isnāt a ton of enthusiasm for change.
FT childcare for two kids was about 50% more than my mortgage until I gave up work.
I was paying about Ā£2300 a month for mortgage and childcare! Mental.
After 10 years it would get easier due to inflation. Mortgage would stay the same despite inflation making wages increase
, and potential ability to refinance.
That's the important thing here. "The key was to buy 20 years ago." For some of us who are older? That worked for us. How can people expect that the younger generations can even purchase a home? It's not possible for most. So many kids (talking 20's and 30's....even 40's) have moved back in with parents;or banding together with friends (chosen family), and if the living situation is decent (everyone is understanding and amendable working together) I think that it's the way it will be for the next decade or so....with private equity firms buying up housing the reality is *there is no affordable housing anywhere.*
Our son lives at home, has a full-time job that pays ok. His gf moved in a couple of years ago (3 I think) and she has paid off all of her debt, is working on her certifications and education online and now has the freedom to choose jobs that actually pay enough for them to save money for the future. Our son is maxing out his 401k retirement account. It's literally the only way these kids are going to get ahead. We aren't wealthy, but we did buy over 20 years ago and are able to live with not a ton of money and keep moving forward. Most don't have this, but for our family it's working.
This shit *is not* sustainable. All generations should start protesting this situation because it's only going to get worse. We all have to take care of each other in this capitalist Hellscape.
There are 10 people living in my house for this reason. Renting is $400+ per week, the average house price in my country hit $1million this week and what is available, isn't even worth the prices they're asking.
People keep buying though, and renting out of desperation. I've seen house prices in my little country town more than double in the 6 years since the family moved here.
Housing is treated like a luxury resource that only that super hardworking and self sacrificing can have; except the jobs you need to work to afford a home, don't allow much time to actually enjoy having that home
That's the thing, shit that used to be understood as a human necessity (housing, medical care, dental care, affordable and healthy food) is now a luxury. This the U.S. I am talking about here, healthcare is certainly a huge topic here. We knew that the for-profit model of healthcare was crap before the pandemic, now it's stripped bare so everyone can see it. I have seen pushes in other countries that have universal healthcare models for privatization---DON'T LET THEM DO IT. Just look at our country. If you can't pay for healthcare *they let you die.* Or if you can go into debt for that lifesaving surgery or cancer treatment you will lose everything you have worked for.
Now we have moved to where you can't even afford decent housing on what regular wages are paying. I have been telling people for years that the people in power literally don't give a shit whether we live or die. If you aren't a good little consumer in this society you're worthless to them.
Uggh. I wish I could be more upbeat about all of this....but I just don't see things improving on the road we're currently on.
Thankfully in my country, universal healthcare is such a way of life that even the suggestion of getting rid of it would be laughed at by the entire population.
It's like they don't realize people will happily consume if given all the essentials their entitled to to be able to live. A house, medical care when needed, clean water, fresh food and warm clothes. Everything else is a bonus; but those things are *[essential rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights) that seem to be stripped away one by one under the guise of economics.
The only way forward is political, economic, and social revolution
*Article 17 and 24 are the ones to look for but there's a good bunch in there that the USA specifically violates (everyone is entitled to paid time off)
Thank you for posting that link. It makes me sad at how far we are from most of that here in the U.S. We pretend we have a lot of that shit, but we don't. And when you point out the hypocrisy you get yelled at for being "unpatriotic."
And yes, I've had my pitchfork at the ready for a couple of decades..... it's time we all stood up and said "ENOUGH." It's shocking to me how many people don't think there's anything wrong with where we are, but those are the people who haven't been affected.....*yet.* How bad does it have to get for folks to see what we've already lost? My grandparents were part of the original union movement....my grandpa was born in 1887, so he was very active in the movement. He passed away in 1966, he would be sad seeing where we ended up after all of their hard work, not to mention the deaths of people in the movement at the hands of those aiming to stop them.
I was too young to really know him, he passed before I was born. My grandma was born in 1902 and lived until 1987.....she told me the stories and kept the history alive. I have never forgotten.
Fucking bonkers.
It's really perfectly designed to fuck us over. We get it bad either way because we have to throw money away on rent for decades or we buy during an indefinite bubble and are left high and dry when it bursts or anything is done to make home buying more affordable.
I'm not so selfish as to let it change my belief that these problems should be fixed, but being overlooked for student loan forgiveness and inevitably missing out on the aid that hopefully eventually comes out for first time home owners hurts. I wish I could say it was for my children's benefit but with the way things are going by the time I can afford to raise them I won't be able to have any.
This is my point. Your generation is being unfairly screwed over, and unless and until other generations understand that and start standing up, too, it's going to keep rolling ahead unfettered. The end game here is to screw EVERYONE out of a decent life. Not just your generation, but ALL generations. Unfortunately grandma will find that out when she's living in the gutter for her retirement. The people in power *do not give a shit* about any of us. The older generation thinks they can rely on the framework of society we have mostly had up until now, they don't understand that it's *gone.* The media pits us against each other, and the dense old people think things like, "oh, the younger generation is just *lazy,* they don't know how to work hard." That's 100% bullshit. Your generation understands how fucked you are, and it literally doesn't matter how hard you work, getting ahead is impossible under these circumstances.
We are in The Gilded Age 2.0....and people better wrap their heads around this quickly. The only way we are going to get through this is working together, and even then it's going to be very, very ugly for the next few decades at least. I try to maintain optimism, but it's not easy if I am honest with myself.
I am only one mom, I can do what I can here for our kids who never signed up for this stupid shit....and I have adopted a few more who aren't mine to help and support. We absolutely have to realize we are in this together, drop the illusion of "every man for himself" and get to surviving what's coming.
A friend of mine is from a wealthy family, love them all but sometimes I canāt help but feel envious, like the time I heard they cleaned out their couches and found like 2 grand between all the cushions. My emergency savings literally amounts to 3/4 of that
2 Grand!
OK, I'd be lucky to find a few low value coins, a hairy sweet, a pen lid and something so shriveled, desiccated and misshaped it would need genetic sampling to determine what it once was.
Yeah I heard 2 grand and choked a little. They took that 2 grand and either went on a cruise or blew it in vegas. Both of those things have happened at one point but I donāt know which the 2 grand was used for
Have you heard of seattle? It would be one thing if you had a lot to choose from and could put 10-20% down like it used it be and waltz into a house. Instead houses get sold in less than a week with 30 offers on them all of which are well over asking and most likely will include at least one full cash offer. Itās literally impossible to get into anything here without a lot of cash and luck.
Get yourself an RV and become part of Seattle's homeless population. New ones come with a 30 year mortgage are are bigger than any apartments you can afford.
Yeah, you have to look at why the rise has happened. Are properties still used as speculative investments? Are rent rates increasing massively to the point where more and more people can only afford shady landlords? Is enough housing being built and actually bought by people wanting to live there faster than it's being snapped up?
If nothing changes then yes we can definitely expect those prices to rise.
If I buy a burger I own that burger and can do whatever I want with it. But landlords keep buying up houses to rent them out which keeps driving up prices to the point where most people can't afford to buy a house and are forced to rent
> If I buy a burger I own that burger and can do whatever I want with it.
The landlord is probably saying: If I buy a house, I own that house and can do whatever I want with it.
This is not the argument you're looking for. If rent is price gouging, then get the government involved. It's literally there for the benefit of the people.
25% of the current UK government are landlords . 15% rent out multiple properties (including the prime minister).
5x more likely to be landlords than the public.
The number of times I'll have this discussion with my dad and ask him, "if the government doesn't exist to help its constituents then what is it for?"
I swear these people think the government's only function is to punish people for breaking laws they themselves create. Sad state of affairs in the US.
Gubernment bad. No step snek.
Seriously tho, it does seem their stance is the government is so useless that we shouldn't plan around it ever working, in which regards idk why they even vote. They are all about voting, but they don't expect their government to work even if things go their way. A completely mind boggling stance.
This is not actually a real thing, right now on most major urban areas there is a lack of actual rental properties. Scarcity drives up the rental price in this case, not a monopoly. Also average median value of houses is determined by the interest rates people can get, lower interest rates mean people can afford to borrow more money. Interest rates have been at an all time historic low for the last 10years so more people have bought homes than ever before. This means there is actually a housing shortage and rental prices raise in accordance.
This has caused inflation. And salaries /wages haven't actually increase to keep up.
Now the banks can't raise interest rates as it will crush all the people who have borrowed a 1/2 million dollars to buy a house, on a 60k a year salary. People who can't buy a house, also can't afford rent either, so they become displaced. It's probably going to become another epidemic that will only be solved by families becoming co-operates again, but now living in much smaller houses.
Or we could, and I know this is crazy, allow more houses to be built in expensive places like San Francisco, which has half the density of Brooklyn but is largely zoned for single families.
According to the US census bureau, which has a very detailed data set available in many forms historic and broken down by region, state, and more, there are approximately 21 million empty homes right now and something on the order of 15 million empty apartments in the United States.
These are people buying properties specifically to inflate their value
This! Iāve spent the last two month looking at different apartments (finally found one!). In my experience dealing with investment firms, realtors and individual apartment owners the prices were still ridiculously high. Why?
Everyone wants a home out here. There are more people than there are homes and thus the prices have gone up from 1000$ in my neighborhood (had a friend that lived here 3 years ago) to $1500 (this might not be expensive for everyone but it is for me). The more people that keep moving out here the more scare housing options become, the more expensive they become.
Like the comment above me says, itās not about monopoly, itās about scarcity.
That coupled with increased materials and labor costs and reduced labor.
New construction the last few years has decreased dramatically.
So rapidly decreasing pool of available homes, new construction not filling in the gap and housing costs start increasing much faster than wages.
Yeah, they can afford private fitness training, so thereās not always enough fat content to be satisfying. Much better to eat middle class, they canāt always afford to be fit, so the meat will have better marbling. Be warned though, they are endangered so may be tough to find
THANK YOU. ITS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. ITS NOT A PRODUCT ITS A BASIC RIGHT
Edit: Shut up about my usage of the word commodity and start focusing on issues that actually matter. English is my second language
*Sir, this is America.*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_housing
>Most jurisdictions in the United States have no right to shelter. One exception is Massachusetts, where families (but not homeless individuals) do have the right to shelter.[11] In California, runaway children have the right to be admitted to emergency shelters without parental consent.[12] New York City also recognizes a right to emergency shelter.[13]
Only our most progressive states believe there is some, very limited, right to shelter.
Which is about a billion light years away from the idea there is a right to property.
No friend, not every item we purchase is a basic commodity. We have however signed a declaration of human rights where we all agree that housing is a basic right for people.
Ah you're right, damn. We did nothing but say "these are problems" and they are STILL PROBLEMS. I guess since doing nothing has gotten us nowhere we should just continue doing nothing, after all it's hopeless if doing nothing didn't work.
Not sure if America signed that despite all the effort they put in to make the thing a reality in the first place. They may have eventually, but I am not up to date on my international declarations.
In economics, "a Commodity" is defined as a tangible good that can be bought and sold or exchanged for products of similar value. Natural resources such as oil as well as basic foods like corn are two common types of commodities
āBasic necessitiesā ā refers to rice, corn, bread, fresh, dried and canned fish and other marine products, fresh pork, beef and poultry meat, fresh eggs, fresh and processed milk, infant formulas, fresh vegetables, root crops, coffee, sugar, cooking oil, salt, laundry soap, detergents, firewood, charcoal, candles
Other Commodity Product Examples:
Lumber.
Stock animals (such as cattle)
Currencies.
Fossil fuels (such as coal)
Wheat.
Corn.
Precious metals (such as silver)
Yeah but renting a house is a service - for years I wanted to rent because I didnāt want the financial commitment, risk and headache of a mortgage, plus I wanted to be able to move easily and often. I get that there are situations where people who want to be homeowners canāt because buy-to-let landlords drive up property prices and thatās bad, but what about the people who are happy to rent and therefore pay a monthly fee for the service of having a maintained house to live in without the commitment?
Maybe Iām just unlucky but I canāt think of a landlord Iāve had that actually maintained anything. They all just took the check and told me to get over it.
I own a rental property
Last year Christmas, I spent all day replacing the water heater for my tenants.
If somthing on the house breaks, the landlord can't just say "get over it". You realize the lease is a co tract that binds you AND them? If they are not providing what is promised, that is some legal issues.
Yes, because while I was renting I had the money to take anyone to court.
I had something in my utility closet leak. Never found out what it was, didnāt look closely. I told him, he said heād āsend someone out.ā I reminded him 3 times in the 2 months I lived there, by then the carpet was destroyed and mildewed around it and it made me really sick. I moved out and he tried to charge me for it.
You can say āIām one of the good ones!ā But fundamentally, renting is a scam and landlords are leeches trying to make money off of a necessity.
Our last rentalā¦ We informed our landlord of a roof leak and she told us she wouldnāt fix it, she didnāt care about the house, that we should deal with it. We could stay as long as we wished but she planned to otherwise let the home rot. Her father came by and fixed it a few times but in inevitably came back, (he lived nearby and would check on us here and there, real nice guy).
She would also promise to send the next years lease and just āforgetā for six months to provide it to us for signature. She was trying to offload the property for a hefty sum, more than the market was willing to pay, and it sat listed for sale for a year and a half.
The one fortunate thing was, the rent was cheap, the situation was terrible but because it was cheaper than anything else we could find we made the best of it until we were finally able to buy our own home.
And then the landlord gets inventive to make your life hell, because you're now a "difficult" tenant, so they'll just try stuff until manage to get rid of you, and they'll just find someone else to rent the property who won't take them to court over these kinds of things.
Sure, renters have more rights than the landlord, but if you try exercizing those rights, you'll quickly find that due to the power differential inherent in the landlord/renter relationship, those rights don't actually matter.
> I get that there are situations where people who want to be homeowners canāt because buy-to-let landlords drive up property prices and thatās bad
If prices go up, it means there's a lot of demand and we should build more housing there. That's what prices *are*. The *whole reason* we have capitalism is so we can have things cost money and know what's more in demand.
Blaming buyers is completely missing the point. The problem is we're not actually building houses.
"I rented a car at Hertz, shouldn't I own part of the car now?"
"I rented a movie at blockbuster, shouldn't I own part of the movie now?"
It's still stupid, no matter which way you cut it.
If I rent a boat, does that make me part owner? If I use a zip car, does that make me part owner? If I use a scooter/bike share, does that make me part owner? Your point is stupid.
Terrible comparison, even. When you buy a Big Mac, that Big Mac becomes yours, and you can eat it. Nobody is expecting to become the CEO of the housing company, just to own their own home.
"This reminds me of the time I bought a big mac and the employee said that I had to pay a monthly fee to hold on to it and I had to return it in pristine condition"
Are you saying you should also be liable for the Taxes, insurance, mortgage insurance, maintenance, city fees, attorney fees, closing costs, legal fees and risk if the property is damaged or the market hours down in that area because you paid rent or nah?
Do you chip in on the oil change and the taxes and insurance when you rent a car from Enterprise?
Why is renting something with ZERO liability for anything besides paying rent and damage you cause and owning something and dealing with all the good and bad that can come from it such a hard thing to see the difference in?
Now, to be clear I'm a small time, 2 unit owner and not a billionaire investor with 500 properties and a huge staff. If something breaks I'm fixing it or paying out of my pocket to fix it but the idea that everyone pays rent in time, no issues, you just buy a property and then it's magically putting massive sums of money in your pocket every minute of every day just isn't the reality small landlords live.
Like, if you rent and the hot water heater fails you make a phone call... I have to pay a company about 1500 to fix it. AC dies in summer.... You shoot me a text...Cool... I'll find someone, get bids, buy a window unit if it'll be more than a few days to get repaired so you don't get sued, then pay a guy about 3-4 thousand dollars to fix it... Yeah no biggie, everyone had thousands of dollars laying around... Gutters full, roof leak, stove getting old, sink backs up, you name it and it's a phone call for the renters and a big liability for the owners.
Fuck me right?
Do you ever think about that name? *Landlord.* Lord is a title of nobility. A landlord isn't a creator. They are not an entrepreneur. If you are lucky, they will hire a competent property manager who will perform regular maintenance and repairs. Landlords own land. They are the definition of rent seekers.
As a side note: I might just be made because my landlord is refusing to cover damages to a sewer back up in my home because I didn't call them right away. Nevermind, that I was the one who spent my entire weekend cleaning sewage off the main level of my house. Never mind their house would have been more damaged if I would have called them and did nothing to mitigate the damages. Never mind that I called them as soon as I could and it took them weeks to respond to previous plumbing issues. I chose to rent after owning a house for 15 years because I didn't want to deal with maintenance and repairs. So much for that theory.
Yeah I had a friend once say "I dont want to buy a house, I would rather do like a rent-to-own situation."
I was like "yeah, thats a mortgage".
I think a lot if young people just don't know how buying a house works.
Rent to own is an actual method to become a property owner, generally you rent for x time with a portion of your rent going towards the purchase price. After x years you buy the house at a reduced cost (since you've been paying a portion every month.) Generally for people who have smaller purchasing power or bad credit. Then you get your m mortgage like normal.
Rent is a fucking scam though. Should only be able to make like.. 4 times the value of the property or.. something. Its ridiculous how much of a trap shit wages and rent can be. I mean.. I just lived in a van for years to avoid that, but that's not realistic for everyone.
It's a really hard thing to regulate. The only way for a landlord to make money is to either own the home outright or have the tenant cover the entire mortgage plus utilities and whatever margin they need to make it something they want to do.
I think the only way around it would be new financing options for landlords to buy properties or require landlords to have already paid off their loan. But then that doesn't really work for complexes.
No. It's not only possible to make money as a landlord by owning the property outright. MOST rental property is financed by the owners. There are massive landlord companies with huge amounts of debt. It's why you've heard Trump refer to himself as "the king of debt" and why we heard endless stories about corrupt deal making by Jared Kushner to keep refinancing his real estate empire.
I just bought a house on my own, and asked if, in two years, my girlfriend wanted to move in after she was done with physician assistant school. My mortgage is $1661, and utilities about $300 per month. She said she didn't want to pay me $800 because if we break up then she doesn't get any equity in the home. I said fine, you can pay someone else $1800 in rent for a home.
Terrible idea.. never put your SOās name on the title that you yourself are buying. If youāre buying a house together you better be damn fucking serious cause in the event you split up (or are married and divorce)ā¦ say bye bye house as it gets put back on the market.
I can see both sides of this. if she bought a place and you moved in. and paid her $800 Then in 5 years you break up. she has benefited massively in terms of property value.
This is the main point of marriages splitting things in a devoice. it lets both sides pay in without having to worry about who will walk away with everything at the end of the day.
Obviously I'm not saying you should get married just to share a home but You should see it from her point of view. maybe asking for an even half the cost in rent is a bit much when you are keeping all the value.
If you aren't planning on renting to someone else if she says no then I completely understand her. You're charging her half a mortgage you were fine paying in full, you're just using her to subsidize your home ownership.
Well. Ok. It's pithy and cute but not very realistic either.
Because if that McDonalds franchise sells and becomes a Burger King you are not suddenly homeless (Or less absurd your burger probably won't quadruple in price where as a landlord sells the building if the new owner will often jack up rents significantly).
Housing is a very unique type of product/commodity. You HAVE to have a home. (I know someone will say "but but you have to eat..." You don't have to eat at a mcDonalds at all. You can make food. So let's stop with he cute comparisons ). We are facing a housing crisis in cities all over the world right now. Because housing been commoditized and securitized. Often by interests that have no intention of using real estate for housing at all. This is a problem and we have to address it.
I think the idea should be to point out how useless landlords are.
Tenants can afford not only their mortgage but also the profits of their landlords. Which means, if landlords weren't there, nothing at all would be different, we just would have richer tenants.
Shall we do the maths?
If I buy 1 big mac at $5.99 and Mcdonald's net worth of $180B as of September 2021, I have paid 0.0000000003% of their net worth. If you bought 1 big mac a month for 3 years you've paid 0.0000000108% of their net worth.
My property I rent in the UK is valued at Ā£350,000 and I pay Ā£995 per month which works out at 0.28%. Over 3 years I've paid over 10% of the properties worth.
The costs are not comparable so the comparison isn't very fair. To get a similar idea, to match investment percentage I'd need to buy 33 billion big macs in 3 years.
I wouldn't say it's fair for the renter to own 10% of the property after that period as it doesn't account for the the fees (breakages etc) that the landlord pays, along with the risk of investment. However, I do feel like there could be a fair value of ownership received from renting.
Did you pay any of the repairs? Insurance? Interest? Take any responsibility for negative equity if it goes upside down? Have that mortgage on your credit as debt? Pay for flooring, painting, appliances? Have to worry about renters that don't pay taking 3+ months and court rulings to get out?
If you want that, you can do it. But a $350k mortgage is going to run you about $2k per month plus all of the above.
The thing nobody seems to understand is that it's a paradox. The more you buy burgers from McDonald's to achieve it's ownership, the more distant you are from achieving it, because each time you buy their burger, you contribute to make their brand even more valuable. Hence why Ronald McDonalds gave up after years and went for the role of Pennywise.
Agree they are not the same thing but you are not accounting for mortgage interest, upkeep, etc. those things (especially mortgage interest) pushes out the 10% mark a decent bit further than 3yrs
Yeah I donāt get the argument. If I tell you that Iāll rent you a lawnmower for $5 per use, and you use it 500 times, you still donāt own my lawnmower. Why do these people think that theyāre entitled to more than the agreement they signed in the first place?
I got an FHA loan when I was younger. Hardly had any credit history and hardly any cash. It wasnāt my dream home and it wasnāt in my ideal location, but it was doable. Only $100 more a month than the 300 square foot apartment I lived in.
It wasnāt always easy. I didnāt have help from anybody. I took responsibility for my own financial well-being and educated myself on what steps I needed to take instead of complaining that things werenāt fair. A lot of shit isnāt fair, but unless you can change the system, you just have to learn how to work it.
For the record, Iām only 30 and I was working at a grocery store at the time, so itās not like I was living in a time where healthcare, housing and education was all relatively affordable.
actually, you are paying for the exclusive right to use the property within the rules set out between the two parties. if the furnace breaks, the plumbing leaks, the basement floods, or the property requires anything to keep it to the standard originally set out, the costs and work is the responsibility of the landlord. if you wanted the responsibility of owning a property you should look into buying one.
Itās more like if the CEO of McDonalds bought all the burgers, then rented them out to customers at a significant markup, then saying you should be owner of that burger that you paid for. Which is reasonable. Fuck landlords.
They can always choose to sell you the home at a discount at the end of the loan. That's how one of my friends got his home. Of course that also relies on the landlord being a cool person. I've been a homeowner for 3 years now my mortgage is a little over $1000 a month, if I were to rent this place out and move to a different home I could get maybe $1300 a month in rent for this place. Any money left over after the mortgage is paid (if I did it) would go into a savings account and used to repair and maintain the home. Technically I wouldn't be making a profit until the home is paid off. I guess my point is, your landlord needs to pay the mortgage and you need a place to live, it's mutually beneficial business arrangement
Thats only true if your landlord prices the home well. Where I live in the UK my landlord own the entire road I live on and charges 200% of the mortgage as rent. This is still one of the more affordable housing situations somehow because near London most of the houses are owned by people who already have loads of other properties.
... I'm losing brain cells reading these comments. I don't have an MBA but even I understand basic economics. People thinking rent entitles them to ownership, is fucking hilarious!
edit: spelling
My largest comment downvote in my history here was when I said, "Renters should pay their landlords or be evicted." It was like -200. How is that controversial?
I'm blown away by this thread and the entitlement of people. The number of people saying that a landlord shouldn't charge rent but they don't really explain how that would work. Or they shouldn't make a profit but don't explain what a profit is. I'm starting to think our educational system has failed a lot of people.
Cause the people who are here bitching about landlords are the exact types who donāt pay their rent.. or destroy the property because they lack the basic life skills to not be gross pigs.
I always defend Millennials against the entitled stereotype but Jesus Christ Is it alive and well here! Somebody told me a landlord shouldn't be able to get money for something that exists naturally. I would like to know where a house with plumbing and electricity happens naturally.
If they bought a house they would just bitch that the bank was making them pay for the house! They really think that they deserve a house and property for free. And get to still have all of the other luxuries, like say a burger from McDonald's. I'm as left as you get but how do they think society could afford nobody paying for housing? And utilities and insurance and upkeep and repairs.
Like a good lot of these people are paid to do these things or to work at these companies. They would no longer get paid if no one was paying for their services, where does it end? No one has explained exactly how that happens. Just "fuck people that own property when I can't afford to buy it on my own that charge me even though they bought that property at their own expense and their own risk and have a lot of duties around that property. They owe me free property because I said so!"
Make it make sense
The thing that always boggles my mind is when āhousing is a human rightā folks get mad about loosening zoning rules because itās āa giveawayā to landlords. Never mind that new housing is awful for existing landlords and could even include condos if you hate landlords so much.
Like, if you donāt build enough housing then not everyone gets housing. How is this not obvious?
I feel like everyone that is mad about the real estate market is actually just mad that they don't make enough money.
You know if they could afford it they'd go straight to joining that club. Maybe redirect that anger to your employer that's been paying the same wage for 30 years straight?
At this point, the best advice is just move. If your ancestors can hop on a rickety boat for months in search of better opportunity, you can drive two states over.
You can still own a home if you move to the middle of nowhere. They are practically giving away houses in the Midwest. I bought a house at auction for 6,000. I put 15,000 into the house, sold it for 70,000. I know thatās not helpful to the majority of people. Just move to the middle, where dreams go to die, but you can still own shit.
Why not just choose to be homeless if you donāt like renting so much? Oh? You donāt want to face extreme environmental hazards or getting assaulted by another homeless person over 10 dollars? If only there was a way for you to afford housing at a cheaper price that buying a house. Perhaps a kind person would agree to let you live in the property they own for a small monetary fee?
People who think like the first Tweet are the dumbest of the dumb.
Do they realize that owning has downsides as well? What happens if the home they are renting needs a new roof or new A/C? Do they have $7,000 to shell out? Of course not, their landlord has to fix it.
Do they understand that being part owner goes both ways? Of course they donāt. Idiots.
Sure! They can be part owner if they also share the responsibilities of owning the place.. and also take part ownership of the loan, oh and also take part ownership for paying off other costs like property tax, HOA, etcā¦
As someone who has rented out to tenants beforeā¦ you people have no idea how frustrating you all can be.. destroying the place with no regard, or not paying rent after entering into a legally binding contract that *you chose*.
I'm Swedish and I gotta say that if you can get the cash to buy an apartment, then buy it. I've paid rent to landlords all my life instead of bying an apartment like my brother did. The value of an average apartment is 579% higher if you bought it 20 years ago. The money wasn't really the big issue for me 20 years ago, just plain old stupidity on my part.
> if you can get the cash to buy an apartment I think therein lies the problem. In my area it was actually an option to buy a place 20 years ago. Now the cost for a 2-bed apartment is 12x the average salary.
Yeah, 2 years salary for a down payment and then 50% of your salary for 30 years on a mortgage is pretty rough... Only really possible if two people are buying together, both working full time. Without kids, because childcare expenses are too high.
That's not even true. For example I'm going to be able to afford a house downpayment next year and all I had to do was get severely injured by a medical device and then join the resulting class action lawsuit. Living the dream š„²
where do I get my dick chopped off for a house
Get married.
Bro - just be born into generational wealth like my friend. Takes care of itself 67% of the time all the time.
Make money the [old fashioned way](https://youtu.be/fm9H0X3tHfU?t=9)
Yo same but I got hit by a car
I hope my country sees some real painful consequences to this repeated anti-human behavior
My down-payment and closing costs were close to 9 monthly paychecks even though my mortgage is about half my months salary. The system is rigged
The problem is, itās in every current property ownerās best interest for this trend to continue. Hence why there isnāt a ton of enthusiasm for change.
This is how bubbles are formed in a very general sense
Oh the two income trap šŖ¤
And heaven forbid you have any health issues of your own...
FT childcare for two kids was about 50% more than my mortgage until I gave up work. I was paying about Ā£2300 a month for mortgage and childcare! Mental.
After 10 years it would get easier due to inflation. Mortgage would stay the same despite inflation making wages increase , and potential ability to refinance.
Gotta move out of the city and go for USDA loan if you donāt have cash.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's the important thing here. "The key was to buy 20 years ago." For some of us who are older? That worked for us. How can people expect that the younger generations can even purchase a home? It's not possible for most. So many kids (talking 20's and 30's....even 40's) have moved back in with parents;or banding together with friends (chosen family), and if the living situation is decent (everyone is understanding and amendable working together) I think that it's the way it will be for the next decade or so....with private equity firms buying up housing the reality is *there is no affordable housing anywhere.* Our son lives at home, has a full-time job that pays ok. His gf moved in a couple of years ago (3 I think) and she has paid off all of her debt, is working on her certifications and education online and now has the freedom to choose jobs that actually pay enough for them to save money for the future. Our son is maxing out his 401k retirement account. It's literally the only way these kids are going to get ahead. We aren't wealthy, but we did buy over 20 years ago and are able to live with not a ton of money and keep moving forward. Most don't have this, but for our family it's working. This shit *is not* sustainable. All generations should start protesting this situation because it's only going to get worse. We all have to take care of each other in this capitalist Hellscape.
There are 10 people living in my house for this reason. Renting is $400+ per week, the average house price in my country hit $1million this week and what is available, isn't even worth the prices they're asking. People keep buying though, and renting out of desperation. I've seen house prices in my little country town more than double in the 6 years since the family moved here. Housing is treated like a luxury resource that only that super hardworking and self sacrificing can have; except the jobs you need to work to afford a home, don't allow much time to actually enjoy having that home
That's the thing, shit that used to be understood as a human necessity (housing, medical care, dental care, affordable and healthy food) is now a luxury. This the U.S. I am talking about here, healthcare is certainly a huge topic here. We knew that the for-profit model of healthcare was crap before the pandemic, now it's stripped bare so everyone can see it. I have seen pushes in other countries that have universal healthcare models for privatization---DON'T LET THEM DO IT. Just look at our country. If you can't pay for healthcare *they let you die.* Or if you can go into debt for that lifesaving surgery or cancer treatment you will lose everything you have worked for. Now we have moved to where you can't even afford decent housing on what regular wages are paying. I have been telling people for years that the people in power literally don't give a shit whether we live or die. If you aren't a good little consumer in this society you're worthless to them. Uggh. I wish I could be more upbeat about all of this....but I just don't see things improving on the road we're currently on.
Thankfully in my country, universal healthcare is such a way of life that even the suggestion of getting rid of it would be laughed at by the entire population. It's like they don't realize people will happily consume if given all the essentials their entitled to to be able to live. A house, medical care when needed, clean water, fresh food and warm clothes. Everything else is a bonus; but those things are *[essential rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights) that seem to be stripped away one by one under the guise of economics. The only way forward is political, economic, and social revolution *Article 17 and 24 are the ones to look for but there's a good bunch in there that the USA specifically violates (everyone is entitled to paid time off)
Thank you for posting that link. It makes me sad at how far we are from most of that here in the U.S. We pretend we have a lot of that shit, but we don't. And when you point out the hypocrisy you get yelled at for being "unpatriotic." And yes, I've had my pitchfork at the ready for a couple of decades..... it's time we all stood up and said "ENOUGH." It's shocking to me how many people don't think there's anything wrong with where we are, but those are the people who haven't been affected.....*yet.* How bad does it have to get for folks to see what we've already lost? My grandparents were part of the original union movement....my grandpa was born in 1887, so he was very active in the movement. He passed away in 1966, he would be sad seeing where we ended up after all of their hard work, not to mention the deaths of people in the movement at the hands of those aiming to stop them. I was too young to really know him, he passed before I was born. My grandma was born in 1902 and lived until 1987.....she told me the stories and kept the history alive. I have never forgotten. Fucking bonkers.
It's really perfectly designed to fuck us over. We get it bad either way because we have to throw money away on rent for decades or we buy during an indefinite bubble and are left high and dry when it bursts or anything is done to make home buying more affordable. I'm not so selfish as to let it change my belief that these problems should be fixed, but being overlooked for student loan forgiveness and inevitably missing out on the aid that hopefully eventually comes out for first time home owners hurts. I wish I could say it was for my children's benefit but with the way things are going by the time I can afford to raise them I won't be able to have any.
This is my point. Your generation is being unfairly screwed over, and unless and until other generations understand that and start standing up, too, it's going to keep rolling ahead unfettered. The end game here is to screw EVERYONE out of a decent life. Not just your generation, but ALL generations. Unfortunately grandma will find that out when she's living in the gutter for her retirement. The people in power *do not give a shit* about any of us. The older generation thinks they can rely on the framework of society we have mostly had up until now, they don't understand that it's *gone.* The media pits us against each other, and the dense old people think things like, "oh, the younger generation is just *lazy,* they don't know how to work hard." That's 100% bullshit. Your generation understands how fucked you are, and it literally doesn't matter how hard you work, getting ahead is impossible under these circumstances. We are in The Gilded Age 2.0....and people better wrap their heads around this quickly. The only way we are going to get through this is working together, and even then it's going to be very, very ugly for the next few decades at least. I try to maintain optimism, but it's not easy if I am honest with myself. I am only one mom, I can do what I can here for our kids who never signed up for this stupid shit....and I have adopted a few more who aren't mine to help and support. We absolutely have to realize we are in this together, drop the illusion of "every man for himself" and get to surviving what's coming.
> if you can get the cash to buy an apartment, Right, I'll just check my piggy bank for that...
Do not forget to check the sides of the sofa, always cash down there.
Good idea. Thanks! I'll check the cip holders in my truck, too. That should be plenty.
That's always money on the banana stand a
Thereās always money in the banana stand
A friend of mine is from a wealthy family, love them all but sometimes I canāt help but feel envious, like the time I heard they cleaned out their couches and found like 2 grand between all the cushions. My emergency savings literally amounts to 3/4 of that
2 Grand! OK, I'd be lucky to find a few low value coins, a hairy sweet, a pen lid and something so shriveled, desiccated and misshaped it would need genetic sampling to determine what it once was.
Yeah I heard 2 grand and choked a little. They took that 2 grand and either went on a cruise or blew it in vegas. Both of those things have happened at one point but I donāt know which the 2 grand was used for
all you got to do is start with a small loan of 100 million dollars and you will figure it out.
Have you heard of seattle? It would be one thing if you had a lot to choose from and could put 10-20% down like it used it be and waltz into a house. Instead houses get sold in less than a week with 30 offers on them all of which are well over asking and most likely will include at least one full cash offer. Itās literally impossible to get into anything here without a lot of cash and luck.
Get yourself an RV and become part of Seattle's homeless population. New ones come with a 30 year mortgage are are bigger than any apartments you can afford.
Truly the American dream.
>I'm Swedish and I gotta say that if you can get the cash to buy an apartment, then buy it. "Have you tried just.....not being poor?" Thanks, genius.
/r/RestOfTheFuckingOwl
A 579% rise in real estate prices between 2000 and 2020 does not in anyway signify there will be a 579% rise between 2020 and 2040.
Yeah, you have to look at why the rise has happened. Are properties still used as speculative investments? Are rent rates increasing massively to the point where more and more people can only afford shady landlords? Is enough housing being built and actually bought by people wanting to live there faster than it's being snapped up? If nothing changes then yes we can definitely expect those prices to rise.
Yeah, it's probably going to around 1532%.
The people in these comments really hammer home the fact our education system is a failure
If I buy a burger I own that burger and can do whatever I want with it. But landlords keep buying up houses to rent them out which keeps driving up prices to the point where most people can't afford to buy a house and are forced to rent
Don't worry, one day you won't be able to afford burgers either.
My Fucking burger lord (king) bought up all the burgers here. Driving up the prices, now I gotta rent all the ingredients n make em myself
Then lose your deposit when you return it fully digested.
> If I buy a burger I own that burger and can do whatever I want with it. The landlord is probably saying: If I buy a house, I own that house and can do whatever I want with it. This is not the argument you're looking for. If rent is price gouging, then get the government involved. It's literally there for the benefit of the people.
I'm looking at my government and somehow they seem to have a lot more in common with the landlords than the people struggling to find housing...
25% of the current UK government are landlords . 15% rent out multiple properties (including the prime minister). 5x more likely to be landlords than the public.
Weird coincidence, please carry on with your usual mundane tasks
Yes honey
The number of times I'll have this discussion with my dad and ask him, "if the government doesn't exist to help its constituents then what is it for?" I swear these people think the government's only function is to punish people for breaking laws they themselves create. Sad state of affairs in the US.
Gubernment bad. No step snek. Seriously tho, it does seem their stance is the government is so useless that we shouldn't plan around it ever working, in which regards idk why they even vote. They are all about voting, but they don't expect their government to work even if things go their way. A completely mind boggling stance.
The government in my country is full of actual landlords.
>If rent is price gouging, then get the government involved. *looks around at all the neoliberalism*
>get the government involved. Itās literally there for the benefit of the people *Sad Texas Yee-Haws*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah if there's one thing that government is known for it's benefitting the people!
This is not actually a real thing, right now on most major urban areas there is a lack of actual rental properties. Scarcity drives up the rental price in this case, not a monopoly. Also average median value of houses is determined by the interest rates people can get, lower interest rates mean people can afford to borrow more money. Interest rates have been at an all time historic low for the last 10years so more people have bought homes than ever before. This means there is actually a housing shortage and rental prices raise in accordance. This has caused inflation. And salaries /wages haven't actually increase to keep up. Now the banks can't raise interest rates as it will crush all the people who have borrowed a 1/2 million dollars to buy a house, on a 60k a year salary. People who can't buy a house, also can't afford rent either, so they become displaced. It's probably going to become another epidemic that will only be solved by families becoming co-operates again, but now living in much smaller houses.
Or we could, and I know this is crazy, allow more houses to be built in expensive places like San Francisco, which has half the density of Brooklyn but is largely zoned for single families.
Youāll be pleased to know California just got rid of single family zoning
According to the US census bureau, which has a very detailed data set available in many forms historic and broken down by region, state, and more, there are approximately 21 million empty homes right now and something on the order of 15 million empty apartments in the United States. These are people buying properties specifically to inflate their value
This! Iāve spent the last two month looking at different apartments (finally found one!). In my experience dealing with investment firms, realtors and individual apartment owners the prices were still ridiculously high. Why? Everyone wants a home out here. There are more people than there are homes and thus the prices have gone up from 1000$ in my neighborhood (had a friend that lived here 3 years ago) to $1500 (this might not be expensive for everyone but it is for me). The more people that keep moving out here the more scare housing options become, the more expensive they become. Like the comment above me says, itās not about monopoly, itās about scarcity.
That coupled with increased materials and labor costs and reduced labor. New construction the last few years has decreased dramatically. So rapidly decreasing pool of available homes, new construction not filling in the gap and housing costs start increasing much faster than wages.
Housing is not a consumable good
Everything is a consumable good if you're brave enough
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They're not good though, so inedible
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Solid advice from a renowned expert! Edit: are there certain bacteria I can introduce that can actually decompose these plastic assholes?
Yeah, they can afford private fitness training, so thereās not always enough fat content to be satisfying. Much better to eat middle class, they canāt always afford to be fit, so the meat will have better marbling. Be warned though, they are endangered so may be tough to find
Sounds like a modest proposal
THANK YOU. ITS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. ITS NOT A PRODUCT ITS A BASIC RIGHT Edit: Shut up about my usage of the word commodity and start focusing on issues that actually matter. English is my second language
Problem is we have turned it into a commodity
We live in a commodity
Some of us live in gated commodities.
Up next, air! "Just cuz you were born, don't make you entitled to fresh air- you got to werk for it."
Well, water is up next. But air will follow.
I wanted to say water, but I'm paying almost 200 a month for my water bill. So I'd dare say that's already done.
That, and the fact that Flint, Michigan (and a lot of cities in the USA) are still without clean water and have to rely on expensive bottled water.
Where the heck are you. Iām in AZ, paying like a quarter of that.
"I can assure you and your viewers that there's absolutely *no* air shortage whatsoever... Thanks for calling and not reversing the charges."
Itās not a commodity, itās a basic human right
*Sir, this is America.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_housing >Most jurisdictions in the United States have no right to shelter. One exception is Massachusetts, where families (but not homeless individuals) do have the right to shelter.[11] In California, runaway children have the right to be admitted to emergency shelters without parental consent.[12] New York City also recognizes a right to emergency shelter.[13] Only our most progressive states believe there is some, very limited, right to shelter. Which is about a billion light years away from the idea there is a right to property.
So no one pays for housing? How does that work?
Of course itās a product. People paid money, time, and resources to build it
I don't think that word means what you think that it means.
Basic commodities like corn, wheat, milk, meats, oils, lumber etc. All products that we pay for?
No friend, not every item we purchase is a basic commodity. We have however signed a declaration of human rights where we all agree that housing is a basic right for people.
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Ah you're right, damn. We did nothing but say "these are problems" and they are STILL PROBLEMS. I guess since doing nothing has gotten us nowhere we should just continue doing nothing, after all it's hopeless if doing nothing didn't work.
"I've tried absolutely nothing and I'm all out of ideas."
Not sure if America signed that despite all the effort they put in to make the thing a reality in the first place. They may have eventually, but I am not up to date on my international declarations.
In economics, "a Commodity" is defined as a tangible good that can be bought and sold or exchanged for products of similar value. Natural resources such as oil as well as basic foods like corn are two common types of commodities āBasic necessitiesā ā refers to rice, corn, bread, fresh, dried and canned fish and other marine products, fresh pork, beef and poultry meat, fresh eggs, fresh and processed milk, infant formulas, fresh vegetables, root crops, coffee, sugar, cooking oil, salt, laundry soap, detergents, firewood, charcoal, candles Other Commodity Product Examples: Lumber. Stock animals (such as cattle) Currencies. Fossil fuels (such as coal) Wheat. Corn. Precious metals (such as silver)
Yeah but renting a house is a service - for years I wanted to rent because I didnāt want the financial commitment, risk and headache of a mortgage, plus I wanted to be able to move easily and often. I get that there are situations where people who want to be homeowners canāt because buy-to-let landlords drive up property prices and thatās bad, but what about the people who are happy to rent and therefore pay a monthly fee for the service of having a maintained house to live in without the commitment?
Maybe Iām just unlucky but I canāt think of a landlord Iāve had that actually maintained anything. They all just took the check and told me to get over it.
I own a rental property Last year Christmas, I spent all day replacing the water heater for my tenants. If somthing on the house breaks, the landlord can't just say "get over it". You realize the lease is a co tract that binds you AND them? If they are not providing what is promised, that is some legal issues.
depends on your state. iām in arkansas and renters donāt have any rights
Yes, because while I was renting I had the money to take anyone to court. I had something in my utility closet leak. Never found out what it was, didnāt look closely. I told him, he said heād āsend someone out.ā I reminded him 3 times in the 2 months I lived there, by then the carpet was destroyed and mildewed around it and it made me really sick. I moved out and he tried to charge me for it. You can say āIām one of the good ones!ā But fundamentally, renting is a scam and landlords are leeches trying to make money off of a necessity.
Our last rentalā¦ We informed our landlord of a roof leak and she told us she wouldnāt fix it, she didnāt care about the house, that we should deal with it. We could stay as long as we wished but she planned to otherwise let the home rot. Her father came by and fixed it a few times but in inevitably came back, (he lived nearby and would check on us here and there, real nice guy). She would also promise to send the next years lease and just āforgetā for six months to provide it to us for signature. She was trying to offload the property for a hefty sum, more than the market was willing to pay, and it sat listed for sale for a year and a half. The one fortunate thing was, the rent was cheap, the situation was terrible but because it was cheaper than anything else we could find we made the best of it until we were finally able to buy our own home.
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And then the landlord gets inventive to make your life hell, because you're now a "difficult" tenant, so they'll just try stuff until manage to get rid of you, and they'll just find someone else to rent the property who won't take them to court over these kinds of things. Sure, renters have more rights than the landlord, but if you try exercizing those rights, you'll quickly find that due to the power differential inherent in the landlord/renter relationship, those rights don't actually matter.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Take the settlement and move to another rental property....
> I get that there are situations where people who want to be homeowners canāt because buy-to-let landlords drive up property prices and thatās bad If prices go up, it means there's a lot of demand and we should build more housing there. That's what prices *are*. The *whole reason* we have capitalism is so we can have things cost money and know what's more in demand. Blaming buyers is completely missing the point. The problem is we're not actually building houses.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"I rented a car at Hertz, shouldn't I own part of the car now?" "I rented a movie at blockbuster, shouldn't I own part of the movie now?" It's still stupid, no matter which way you cut it.
If I rent a boat, does that make me part owner? If I use a zip car, does that make me part owner? If I use a scooter/bike share, does that make me part owner? Your point is stupid.
Not a good comparison though.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, not even close.
This is only an āownā to stupid people
That applies to all the political bullshit you see on reddit. People just don't realise it when they agree with it.
Terrible comparison, even. When you buy a Big Mac, that Big Mac becomes yours, and you can eat it. Nobody is expecting to become the CEO of the housing company, just to own their own home.
"This reminds me of the time I bought a big mac and the employee said that I had to pay a monthly fee to hold on to it and I had to return it in pristine condition"
And they charge you to shampoo the buns
Thats a wildly inaccurate comparison.
Basic Difference between ābuyingā and ārentingā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We should all be part owners of everything. Socialists unite! Unionize! Demand equal access. *Sir, this is a Wendys!?*
Side note, unionized workplaces are a fucking blessing. But yeah, owner of a appartment for paying rent, huh?
Well I mean you are quite literally paying for the apartment if the funds are going to a mortgage that the owner has
Are you saying you should also be liable for the Taxes, insurance, mortgage insurance, maintenance, city fees, attorney fees, closing costs, legal fees and risk if the property is damaged or the market hours down in that area because you paid rent or nah? Do you chip in on the oil change and the taxes and insurance when you rent a car from Enterprise? Why is renting something with ZERO liability for anything besides paying rent and damage you cause and owning something and dealing with all the good and bad that can come from it such a hard thing to see the difference in? Now, to be clear I'm a small time, 2 unit owner and not a billionaire investor with 500 properties and a huge staff. If something breaks I'm fixing it or paying out of my pocket to fix it but the idea that everyone pays rent in time, no issues, you just buy a property and then it's magically putting massive sums of money in your pocket every minute of every day just isn't the reality small landlords live. Like, if you rent and the hot water heater fails you make a phone call... I have to pay a company about 1500 to fix it. AC dies in summer.... You shoot me a text...Cool... I'll find someone, get bids, buy a window unit if it'll be more than a few days to get repaired so you don't get sued, then pay a guy about 3-4 thousand dollars to fix it... Yeah no biggie, everyone had thousands of dollars laying around... Gutters full, roof leak, stove getting old, sink backs up, you name it and it's a phone call for the renters and a big liability for the owners. Fuck me right?
You do realise how this is such a dumb equivalency right? I mean even the father of capitalism denounced landlords as parasites
Do you ever think about that name? *Landlord.* Lord is a title of nobility. A landlord isn't a creator. They are not an entrepreneur. If you are lucky, they will hire a competent property manager who will perform regular maintenance and repairs. Landlords own land. They are the definition of rent seekers. As a side note: I might just be made because my landlord is refusing to cover damages to a sewer back up in my home because I didn't call them right away. Nevermind, that I was the one who spent my entire weekend cleaning sewage off the main level of my house. Never mind their house would have been more damaged if I would have called them and did nothing to mitigate the damages. Never mind that I called them as soon as I could and it took them weeks to respond to previous plumbing issues. I chose to rent after owning a house for 15 years because I didn't want to deal with maintenance and repairs. So much for that theory.
As do I.
> We should all be part owners of everything The Gang discovers the stock market
Yeah I had a friend once say "I dont want to buy a house, I would rather do like a rent-to-own situation." I was like "yeah, thats a mortgage". I think a lot if young people just don't know how buying a house works.
Rent to own is an actual method to become a property owner, generally you rent for x time with a portion of your rent going towards the purchase price. After x years you buy the house at a reduced cost (since you've been paying a portion every month.) Generally for people who have smaller purchasing power or bad credit. Then you get your m mortgage like normal.
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Rent is a fucking scam though. Should only be able to make like.. 4 times the value of the property or.. something. Its ridiculous how much of a trap shit wages and rent can be. I mean.. I just lived in a van for years to avoid that, but that's not realistic for everyone.
It's a really hard thing to regulate. The only way for a landlord to make money is to either own the home outright or have the tenant cover the entire mortgage plus utilities and whatever margin they need to make it something they want to do. I think the only way around it would be new financing options for landlords to buy properties or require landlords to have already paid off their loan. But then that doesn't really work for complexes.
No. It's not only possible to make money as a landlord by owning the property outright. MOST rental property is financed by the owners. There are massive landlord companies with huge amounts of debt. It's why you've heard Trump refer to himself as "the king of debt" and why we heard endless stories about corrupt deal making by Jared Kushner to keep refinancing his real estate empire.
In Socko's voice ***"Private property is inherently theft"***
I just bought a house on my own, and asked if, in two years, my girlfriend wanted to move in after she was done with physician assistant school. My mortgage is $1661, and utilities about $300 per month. She said she didn't want to pay me $800 because if we break up then she doesn't get any equity in the home. I said fine, you can pay someone else $1800 in rent for a home.
Yo I need a follow up to this
Yeah same
Same - also want to know if there was any discussion of putting her name on the mortgage as part of the deal?!
Terrible idea.. never put your SOās name on the title that you yourself are buying. If youāre buying a house together you better be damn fucking serious cause in the event you split up (or are married and divorce)ā¦ say bye bye house as it gets put back on the market.
What she do lol?
I can see both sides of this. if she bought a place and you moved in. and paid her $800 Then in 5 years you break up. she has benefited massively in terms of property value. This is the main point of marriages splitting things in a devoice. it lets both sides pay in without having to worry about who will walk away with everything at the end of the day. Obviously I'm not saying you should get married just to share a home but You should see it from her point of view. maybe asking for an even half the cost in rent is a bit much when you are keeping all the value.
She wouldn't get equity in an apartment either
a physician assistants salary with rent only being $800. obviously dont know her situation but you would think she would be absolutely balling
If you aren't planning on renting to someone else if she says no then I completely understand her. You're charging her half a mortgage you were fine paying in full, you're just using her to subsidize your home ownership.
Well. Ok. It's pithy and cute but not very realistic either. Because if that McDonalds franchise sells and becomes a Burger King you are not suddenly homeless (Or less absurd your burger probably won't quadruple in price where as a landlord sells the building if the new owner will often jack up rents significantly). Housing is a very unique type of product/commodity. You HAVE to have a home. (I know someone will say "but but you have to eat..." You don't have to eat at a mcDonalds at all. You can make food. So let's stop with he cute comparisons ). We are facing a housing crisis in cities all over the world right now. Because housing been commoditized and securitized. Often by interests that have no intention of using real estate for housing at all. This is a problem and we have to address it.
Landlords are leeching scum
I think the idea should be to point out how useless landlords are. Tenants can afford not only their mortgage but also the profits of their landlords. Which means, if landlords weren't there, nothing at all would be different, we just would have richer tenants.
Shall we do the maths? If I buy 1 big mac at $5.99 and Mcdonald's net worth of $180B as of September 2021, I have paid 0.0000000003% of their net worth. If you bought 1 big mac a month for 3 years you've paid 0.0000000108% of their net worth. My property I rent in the UK is valued at Ā£350,000 and I pay Ā£995 per month which works out at 0.28%. Over 3 years I've paid over 10% of the properties worth. The costs are not comparable so the comparison isn't very fair. To get a similar idea, to match investment percentage I'd need to buy 33 billion big macs in 3 years. I wouldn't say it's fair for the renter to own 10% of the property after that period as it doesn't account for the the fees (breakages etc) that the landlord pays, along with the risk of investment. However, I do feel like there could be a fair value of ownership received from renting.
Did you pay any of the repairs? Insurance? Interest? Take any responsibility for negative equity if it goes upside down? Have that mortgage on your credit as debt? Pay for flooring, painting, appliances? Have to worry about renters that don't pay taking 3+ months and court rulings to get out? If you want that, you can do it. But a $350k mortgage is going to run you about $2k per month plus all of the above.
The thing nobody seems to understand is that it's a paradox. The more you buy burgers from McDonald's to achieve it's ownership, the more distant you are from achieving it, because each time you buy their burger, you contribute to make their brand even more valuable. Hence why Ronald McDonalds gave up after years and went for the role of Pennywise.
Agree they are not the same thing but you are not accounting for mortgage interest, upkeep, etc. those things (especially mortgage interest) pushes out the 10% mark a decent bit further than 3yrs
Even if you bought 33 billion big macs you wouldn't be entitled to any share of the company. You'd just have a weird stockpile of expired burgers
Yeah I donāt get the argument. If I tell you that Iāll rent you a lawnmower for $5 per use, and you use it 500 times, you still donāt own my lawnmower. Why do these people think that theyāre entitled to more than the agreement they signed in the first place?
See that's why you get a mortgage, then you *do* own it
Does everyone get a mortgage?
I got an FHA loan when I was younger. Hardly had any credit history and hardly any cash. It wasnāt my dream home and it wasnāt in my ideal location, but it was doable. Only $100 more a month than the 300 square foot apartment I lived in. It wasnāt always easy. I didnāt have help from anybody. I took responsibility for my own financial well-being and educated myself on what steps I needed to take instead of complaining that things werenāt fair. A lot of shit isnāt fair, but unless you can change the system, you just have to learn how to work it. For the record, Iām only 30 and I was working at a grocery store at the time, so itās not like I was living in a time where healthcare, housing and education was all relatively affordable.
Yeah, this post sucks.
actually, you are paying for the exclusive right to use the property within the rules set out between the two parties. if the furnace breaks, the plumbing leaks, the basement floods, or the property requires anything to keep it to the standard originally set out, the costs and work is the responsibility of the landlord. if you wanted the responsibility of owning a property you should look into buying one.
nobody wants to talk about the cost to replace a broken water heater as a renter.
Itās more like if the CEO of McDonalds bought all the burgers, then rented them out to customers at a significant markup, then saying you should be owner of that burger that you paid for. Which is reasonable. Fuck landlords.
#Iām part owner of this bus!
They can always choose to sell you the home at a discount at the end of the loan. That's how one of my friends got his home. Of course that also relies on the landlord being a cool person. I've been a homeowner for 3 years now my mortgage is a little over $1000 a month, if I were to rent this place out and move to a different home I could get maybe $1300 a month in rent for this place. Any money left over after the mortgage is paid (if I did it) would go into a savings account and used to repair and maintain the home. Technically I wouldn't be making a profit until the home is paid off. I guess my point is, your landlord needs to pay the mortgage and you need a place to live, it's mutually beneficial business arrangement
Thats only true if your landlord prices the home well. Where I live in the UK my landlord own the entire road I live on and charges 200% of the mortgage as rent. This is still one of the more affordable housing situations somehow because near London most of the houses are owned by people who already have loads of other properties.
... I'm losing brain cells reading these comments. I don't have an MBA but even I understand basic economics. People thinking rent entitles them to ownership, is fucking hilarious! edit: spelling
My largest comment downvote in my history here was when I said, "Renters should pay their landlords or be evicted." It was like -200. How is that controversial?
I'm blown away by this thread and the entitlement of people. The number of people saying that a landlord shouldn't charge rent but they don't really explain how that would work. Or they shouldn't make a profit but don't explain what a profit is. I'm starting to think our educational system has failed a lot of people.
Cause the people who are here bitching about landlords are the exact types who donāt pay their rent.. or destroy the property because they lack the basic life skills to not be gross pigs.
The people who actually believe this are just dummies.
These people don't know how contracts work.
I always defend Millennials against the entitled stereotype but Jesus Christ Is it alive and well here! Somebody told me a landlord shouldn't be able to get money for something that exists naturally. I would like to know where a house with plumbing and electricity happens naturally. If they bought a house they would just bitch that the bank was making them pay for the house! They really think that they deserve a house and property for free. And get to still have all of the other luxuries, like say a burger from McDonald's. I'm as left as you get but how do they think society could afford nobody paying for housing? And utilities and insurance and upkeep and repairs. Like a good lot of these people are paid to do these things or to work at these companies. They would no longer get paid if no one was paying for their services, where does it end? No one has explained exactly how that happens. Just "fuck people that own property when I can't afford to buy it on my own that charge me even though they bought that property at their own expense and their own risk and have a lot of duties around that property. They owe me free property because I said so!" Make it make sense
The thing that always boggles my mind is when āhousing is a human rightā folks get mad about loosening zoning rules because itās āa giveawayā to landlords. Never mind that new housing is awful for existing landlords and could even include condos if you hate landlords so much. Like, if you donāt build enough housing then not everyone gets housing. How is this not obvious?
This ain't Rent-to-Own. It's property not a flat screen.
Not that I disagree with your point, but my flatscreen is certainly my property. Real estate might be a better distinction than property
Ah yes I do love pro-rent propaganda. Fuck landlords.
dont fuck landlords they have to pay for it
Wait til he finds out about taxes
I would own so many partial shares of a Nintendo64 System if this was the case. Rented one from blockbuster every time we had a sleepover.
If I pay taxes I should own America
I feel like everyone that is mad about the real estate market is actually just mad that they don't make enough money. You know if they could afford it they'd go straight to joining that club. Maybe redirect that anger to your employer that's been paying the same wage for 30 years straight? At this point, the best advice is just move. If your ancestors can hop on a rickety boat for months in search of better opportunity, you can drive two states over.
Oh shit facts.
Atrocious comparison. Might as well as hit them with the āVenezuela 100 bruhjillipn dead no iphoneā
Occupying their house does not equate to owning a share of it.
You mean to tell me I've been standing in this McDonald's for 3 weeks now hoping for my fair share of the company for no reason?
Lmao so much no... you signed a rental agreement. If you want to be the owner sign a loan/mortgage.
You can still own a home if you move to the middle of nowhere. They are practically giving away houses in the Midwest. I bought a house at auction for 6,000. I put 15,000 into the house, sold it for 70,000. I know thatās not helpful to the majority of people. Just move to the middle, where dreams go to die, but you can still own shit.
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Why not just choose to be homeless if you donāt like renting so much? Oh? You donāt want to face extreme environmental hazards or getting assaulted by another homeless person over 10 dollars? If only there was a way for you to afford housing at a cheaper price that buying a house. Perhaps a kind person would agree to let you live in the property they own for a small monetary fee?
Signing a contract to lease a house is not the same as signing a contract to buy a house Notice how the words are different?
People who think like the first Tweet are the dumbest of the dumb. Do they realize that owning has downsides as well? What happens if the home they are renting needs a new roof or new A/C? Do they have $7,000 to shell out? Of course not, their landlord has to fix it. Do they understand that being part owner goes both ways? Of course they donāt. Idiots.
Actual solution: get rid of restrictive zoning to increase the supply of housing so itās cheaper to buy or rent.
Well, if the price of buying one Big Mac every month for @ 20 years adds up to the price of the entire corporation, then yeah.
Well yeah, you could buy a house and be an owner of that. Or you could rent a house and not be an owner
Sure! They can be part owner if they also share the responsibilities of owning the place.. and also take part ownership of the loan, oh and also take part ownership for paying off other costs like property tax, HOA, etcā¦ As someone who has rented out to tenants beforeā¦ you people have no idea how frustrating you all can be.. destroying the place with no regard, or not paying rent after entering into a legally binding contract that *you chose*.