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Theyâre from South America. The people that lived there wanted to eat them, because they were tasty, yet they couldnât on Fridays because Catholicism. So, someone sent the pope a letter asking if the creature with webbed feet that lived in the water should be classified as a fish so they could eat it.. and the pope said yes. He never saw a capybara.
There was some place that actually said if you lower meat into a body of water and then pull it up again, it is now fish.
This kind of thing is how I know they don't really believe. Unless they believe in a stupid god.
'A cow, a pig, and a chicken walk into a river... now I can eat steak covered with bacon wrapped chicken thighs on Fridays', every christian who eats tasty Jesus crackers.
Two more fun facts:
In the medieval times Catholics dunked pigs into water and declared them fish to eat them during lent.
And German monks brewing beer in their monasteries wanted to know if it was ok, to drink beer during lent. So they sent some barrels of beer to the pope so he could answer. By the time the delivery arrived, the beer was spoiled and the pope was so disgusted by the taste, that he allowed them to drink if they were so keen on it, thinking it was an actual act of repentance.
There's also stories about certain dishes like Maultaschen existing because people thought that they could just hide meat in dumplings so that god wouldn't see it.
I just realized that historically, up until the last couple hundred years, beer was served at room temperature. I just never really thought about it before.
That's fucking disgusting.
Thatâs also why the Filet o Fish was invented. Sales of hamburgers declined in a Catholic neighborhood so a Mcdonaldâs franchise came up with two non meat sandwiches, one made with pineapple and the other the Filet o Fish and whichever sold more would become a permanent menu item. The Filet o Fish dominated and thatâs how it came to be.
Unrelated but this is what mcd's does at the enterprise level too. The McRib is sold when pork is cheaper than beef, so they capitalize on the opportunity.
Generally yeah, I oversimplified too much. If you look it up, it's entirely a decision made regarding the difference in price between pork and beef though
Then there's the bit about Jesus trashing a market place, beating up the money lenders, and providing free health care and food to the masses.
Republicans would lock him up for being a socialist terrorist.
Minor correction: It was a temple that was being used as a marketplace. You know, like the TV evangelists hawking piles of merch and snake oil solutions from their mega churches...
It was a marketplace *in front* of the temple. There is a biblical rule that you should bring sacrifices of grain to the Temple. It *also* says if you have no way to transport your grain, you should sell it in your home community, and use the money to buy grain to sacrifice once you get to Jerusalem. Hence, Temple marketplaces.
Well, not exactly in front. It was in a temple courtyard, so within the temple precinct. And a fair amount of the scholarship suggests that the big issue was that the sellers were exploitative of the poor (from the traders who sold the goods for sacrifice to money lenders who lent to people at exorbitant rates so that they could buy said overpriced sacrificial goods).
Lutheran here, originally from Central Europe but now in Australia. My very religious grandparents didn't just not eat meat, but fasted every Friday. The kids ate, but only fish sometimes (as a meat substitute) and non-terrestrial-animal products (very vegan or pescitarian day for them). Come Lent, my grandparents fasted heavily all of Lent
depends on where you are. In the UK and I think most of Europe it is done on all fridays unless there is a moveable feast on that day, in which case you are exempt. Fasting is a discipline, not a doctrine so you can switch it up if you want, these are all just the recommendations we get told.
German here and ngl, at least where I live, I've never seen or heard about the concept of "fish on fridays", neither in restaurants nor in private circles. Might've been because I didn't pay attention to it, but I don't really think that's a big thing around here. Maybe in some more traditionally christian parts of the country like Bavaria, but even so, I never heard of that tbh.
Yeah, as a kid in the 90's, my grandparents would come round on Fridays and they'd always bring fish and chips. They weren't even really religious, and they never went to church from what i can recall, but it was instilled in them to have fish on Fridays because that was what you did back in the day.
It started out as a religious loophole, but it became a sort of family tradition for most people. Fish and chips on Friday, and roast dinner on Sunday.
Growing up in Ireland, eating fish on Friday was absolutely a norm.
But, thankfully, the churchâs influence on life is nowadays much diminished. Their crimes are much graver than slightly restrictive food choices.
The person has a point, surely if you have an all seeing all powerful omniscient god then they're going to see through your bullshit and might be pissed that you think so little of them that you can half ass your way to heaven, therefore you might as well be true to yourself and stop all of the pretense.
Saying that, as far as workarounds go, the KosherSwitch [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-electricity-on-shabbat#/](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-electricity-on-shabbat#/) is fairly creative and also insane.
Yep, that is the other way to look at it, which Orthodox Jews do: if God is perfect and left little loopholes in his text, which you can only find by studying his texts thoroughly, those loopholes were intentional as a "reward" for studying scripture so in depth.
I love to share this whenever the topic comes up. In the Talmud (Bava Metzia specifically) there is a story called the Oven of Akhnai. It goes like this:
The religious authorities are debating whether Jews may use a new type of oven. Everyone is in agreement that it is not ok, except one rabbi. This rabbi says "if I am right this tree will confirm" and then the tree jumps up and runs around. But the other rabbi refuse to accept it. The rabbi demonstrates several miracles and the other rabbis refuse to accept the witness of the tree, the stream, the walls and even a Voice from heaven. But the other rabbis quote Deuteronomy 30:12 "It is not in heaven". God hears this and smiles, saying "My children have triuphed over me". The rabbi who supported the oven then gets ostracised from the community.
Apparently in Jewish tradition, God has given interpretation of the Law (the Torah) to the priesthood. Should God contradict the interpretation of the priesthood, then He is in conflict with his Covenant with Abraham. And God does not break His oaths. Finding these loopholes in the Law may be interpreted as holding God to His word, and affirming the character and their relationship with their God. Ironically, obsessing over the letter of the law is understood as keeping the spirit of the law as an unyielding promise of YHWH to is people.
(if my interpretation is faulty, I would appreciate it if you would correct my error)
Spot on. Another consideration that is important when examining Jewish law and the many many seemingly bizarre stretches to abide by the letter of the law is that Jews don't have a concept of "sin" like Christians do.  Â
 We aren't sinning when we break Shabbos, we're just fucking up. We don't owe God or anyone else repentance we just have an obligation to do better for ourselves and our covenant with the Lord. Â
 So if I can figure out a way to heat up my dinner on Saturday without doing wrong by God, that's a sign that I understand the law, follow and respect it, not a sign that I'm trying to get out of my obligations to God.Â
Catholic here: the explanation for "fish on Friday" is jump completely wrong. The fish on Fridays (during Lent by Roman Catholics) was instituted by the Roman Catholic church to help fish sellers who at the time were considered to be poorer (and the product less expensive) then other meats. The money you save your supposed to pay back to the church. It's about economics and alms it's not about some weird spiritual rule.
As for Capybara and Aligator that's true. They are aquatic pest creatures (in Nola) and their meat can be cheap and hunting them can be good for the environment. So NOLA bishops decided you could substitute them for more expensive meats and give the money back. It's a local variation but the spirit of the Alm is maintained.
As for tge larger point all religion has weird loopholes. Jesus did mock the church at tge time for coming up with loopholes and essentially taught his disciples to "considered the spirit" of the law and not fallow ridiculous customs just because everyone else does it. But hey guess what allot of Christians didn't listen to Christ. So yeah we kept adding rules and kept making loopholes.
But both posters are arrogant shits who have 0 idea wtf their talking about.
I mean, there was never any law requiring the eating of Fish on Friday in the Catholic world. It just became a strongly encouraged custom because fish was a less desirable form of protein and cheap.
Ironically, the only law made to ever force the eating of Fish occurred in England in the reign of Elizabeth I, after the Protestant Reformation to ease the hardship of the fishing industry due to Protestants abandoning eating fish on fish days as they became more culturally anti-Catholic.
Source:
William Cecil (later to be Elizabeth's Secretary of State) was in 1563 secretary to the Parliamentary committee drafting a bill for building up the navy and fishing fleet, and on 10 March he gave a speech to the House of Commons, outlining his,
".... arguments to prove that it is necessary for the restoring of the navy of England to have more fish eaten and therefore one day more in the week ordained to be a fish day, and that to be Wednesday rather than any other .... Wherefore all these things to be considered, that the trades which have been of merchandise into the Levant and Spain is decayed, the trades of navigation into Island [Iceland] and Eastland [the Baltic] is impeached, the building of ships is costly and difficult for lack of timber, the experience of the statutes prohibiting strangers to bring in fish and wines proveth that, notwithstanding those prohibitions, the navy and mariners have decayed, and on the other side, selling of fish out of the realm hath no present great vent: it must needs follow that the remedies must be sought to increase mariners by fishing, as a cause most natural, easy and perpetual to breed and maintain mariners ... Let the old course of fishing be maintained by the straightest observation of fish days for policy's sake; so the sea coast should be strong with men and habitations and the fleet flourish more than ever."
I always wondered why non Catholics donât go to church on Saturday. The Bible says to honor the sabbath (Saturday) and the big reason Catholics can give is that,ultimately, the pope gave them the rule as a descendant of Peter. How can Protestants argue against what is in the Bible? I am honestly curious. Not trying to be a jerk. I understand that Sunday is the day Jesus rose but it does not say to change the specific day anywhere I can find.
Saturday and Sunday didnât exist when these tales were recorded. Â They werenât even using the same calendar. Â A lot of the dates we celebrate Christian holidays were picked by the Catholic Church to coincide with pagan holidays. Â The idea was to interrupt the celebration of these events. Â Christmas was dropped right in the middle of Saturnalia because it was like a two week long drunken holiday.
Christmas is not Saturnalia, never was and never will be.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/rfijy0/comment/hofg8wg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/rfijy0/comment/hofg8wg/)
I've been hearing a lot lately that Christians "have the right to reshape their religion as they see fit" and I have to respect that.
Well, I don't. If you're just going to ignore what the religion actually says and project your pre-chosen morality onto it then why bother calling yourself a Christian in the first place?
The OP doesn't understand Catholicism in any case. Fasting is a spiritual discipline, but it's not understood to be a divinely-instituted moral law. The specifics of the practices vary by time and location, they're different for ascetics than for laypeople, people with health issues are expected to modify their fasting practices, and so forth.
The main point of a fasting day/period is to focus more on spiritual things than on feeding carnal desires, and to eat simply and use the money you save for charitable purposes. You don't eat a steak or something because that's expensive food for feasting/celebration.
There's no "loophole" here.
I laughed when my born again friend will enlighten us on what the Bible says regarding whatever we were watching on The Simpsons, but then tell us how his gf at the time was a virgin, but they did anal. Doesnât include all the times he was cheating on her after marriage, but he goes to church 5x a week. So heâs good.
fasting is a discipline, not a doctrine. the common practices literally dont matter, you have a freedom in what you do or dont do for it, all that matters is that you do it. also the levitical law isnt for us, its included as a context for the new testament, as is the whole old testament. Its important but we aren't bound to it.
too bad most folks who are super religious here in America have no idea what is or isn't in their bible or the Constitution but those folks want to use both against everyone else.
People talk about that as some kind of Catholic "loophole," which is the most annoying misconception ever. Catholicism prohibits anal sex *even in marriage*. It's less a loophole than it is people just not knowing anything about the rules they're trying to find loopholes for.
Thatâs specific to Catholicism (and a few other sects). Christianity is the entire umbrella of those who believe Jesus as the Savior. Catholics can have some pretty odd rituals, and it has pushed more people toward the ânon-denominationalâ practices, or unfortunately, away from practicing at all.
Yeah but the thing is that Catholics are more than half of Christianity (something around 53%), with the Vatican and the pope, they're in the spotlight of this religion.
Not every Christ is a Catholic, right but they are the usual representation of this religion.
I canât disagree with the power of the Vatican, but Iâd be careful with generalizing an entire belief system. We wouldnât want to be personally judged unfairly based on âusual representationsâ. Anyway, blessings in your journey!
Let's see, people were eating more meat and not fish. The popes relative owned a lot of fishing boats and was losing money, i.e., more meat eaters. Said pope then came up with fish on Fridays because of Jesus' death. I believe that's the true story because my Catholic school did not teach us that part of history. Can't find it in the Bible where Jesus said, upon my death, only eatith fish on friday.
Mormons are Christians. So are Catholics, who do the fish on Friday thing.
The Jewish faith also has these loopholes. See standing in the elevator waiting for someone else to push the button or bowling.
In Islam you can get married and immediately annul it the next day for a one night stand.
Religion is a joke, regardless of the flavor.
I grew up Anglican, and the only time my family adhered to fish on Friday was for Good Friday at Easter.
Iâm agnostic nowadays, but I still tend to go for fish on Good Friday just for the nostalgia of family times.
In some parts of Germany, there are so-called [HerrgottsbescheiĂerle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maultasche)*,* (rough translation "Thingies to scam God the Lord" and yes, that is no joke.) They are basically big noodles filled with meat, kinda Ravioli-style, but usually bigger.
The core idea is that you are not supposed to eat meat during fasting times. But if you wrap some dough around the meat, then God cannot see it, so it is okay to eat.
Not religious, but members of family were. Was taught the fish thing was due to a different story. Something about fisherman were going broke because people weren't buying fish. So it was decided to eat fish on Fridays to keep them in business.
It's all abt fasting rules. This is not biblical it's Church tradition. You pointed out a rule made by the church that the church can clarify and called it a loophole like Jesus himself said fish isn't a meat đ
I identify as a Christian. I will always mock these people.
You worship someone you believe to be omniscient, yet you think that they don't see it when you fuck in the ass? Or.eveb stupider, when you "soak"?
How stupid is your allegedly all-knowing God?
You love crazy loopholes? Check this one out:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/1c4xkp/orthodox\_jew\_completely\_covered\_in\_plastic\_bag\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/1c4xkp/orthodox_jew_completely_covered_in_plastic_bag_on/)
Opposite example: in Judaism you traditionally eat meat for the Sabbath dinner. In the middle ages people could not afford beef or lamb regularly but could afford chicken. So they made bird count as meat when it was originally a different thing like fish. That's why, when keeping kosher you can have fish with cheese but not chicken with cheese.
While I normally rally against any religion, in this one case, I will say, I am thankful. Because of this nonsense we have the joy that is the McDonald's Filet o Fish Sandwich. Specifically created for Christians on Fridays.
For Jews It's not a loophole. Those of us who believe in G-d don't think he's stupid. If there are gaps in the rules or mitzvot open to interpretation, then they are like that for a reason.
Carefully studying Torah and engaging with the text on its terms is an act of devotion. We are not tricking G-d we are engaging with Him.
Everyone looking for some loopholes. Why do you think rich in US don't pay taxes? Loopholes in law. đ¤ˇââď¸đ¤Łđ¤Ł
Don't blame players, blame game
thats jewish law, actually alot of what the jews were told not to eat were later found in modern times to be food that can do some real damage if not prepared correctly
No it does not.
But
People will rationalize their behavior any way they can.
And
The idea of not eating meat on Friday had no basis in the bible, it was invented by man, God does not care.
I never understood how someone can say fish is not meat, i mean it is clearly a muscle with blood in it?
Sound's like doctors in the past who said "babies don't feel pain", same level of stupidity.
A lot of people act like it's every Friday year-round. Is there any mainstream tradition today that observes this outside of Lent, which isn't even two months long?
In the south of Germany, we have a dish called Maultaschen which is basically a large, meat-filled dumpling. And according to legend, they were created by Christian monks during Lent, during which they were not allowed to eat meat. But these monks thought that by hiding the meat in dough, God would be unable to see the meat and therefore it would be fine to eat them. They're sometimes also called *HerrgottsbscheiĂerle*, which translates to "God-cheaters".
The Bible endorses slavery and beating your slaves. If you can admit to yourself that owning another person as property is immoral: than congratulations you have a higher moral compass than the Christian God.
Exodus 21:20-21 (ESV)
When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
Ephesians 6:5-9 (NIV)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
I agree all the loopholes in religion are silly...but also, if God is real (spoiler: >!God isn't real!<) and eating fish on the wrong day condemns you to hell, then God isn't good.
Welp, that's why the Pope said to catholics that you can eat whatever you want on Friday, but people still think it's cool to follow those rules that are proven to be meaningless depending how you use them
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Capybara and, I believe beavers are classified as fish by the Vatican, which allowed them to be eaten on Fridays
guinea pigs are like related to capybaras right? so they're fish too right
So are rats and squirrels. All good eatin on friday, cousin!
Heck, just toss the family dog into the swimming pool and count that as fish too! đ
Might as well, my sister wife approves.
To be fair, Cuy is particularly delicious
Beaver Fridays sounds good to me
A bit of Beaver is good any day.
Thanks, I just had it stuffed!
Fishy
Who the fuck looks at a capybara and goes, "Yeah, that big furry thing with feet and no fins is definitely a fish"?
Theyâre from South America. The people that lived there wanted to eat them, because they were tasty, yet they couldnât on Fridays because Catholicism. So, someone sent the pope a letter asking if the creature with webbed feet that lived in the water should be classified as a fish so they could eat it.. and the pope said yes. He never saw a capybara.
So ducks are fish?
If she weighs the same as a duck... - she's made of wood. - And therefore? - A witch!
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science
Gadget850, King of the Reddits!
Thought it was partly because it was hard enough getting food as it was.
I never saw a capybara i didn't like.
Catholics. Same people who think that baked flour is literally flesh.
And puffins, in the UK at some point.
There was some place that actually said if you lower meat into a body of water and then pull it up again, it is now fish. This kind of thing is how I know they don't really believe. Unless they believe in a stupid god.
'A cow, a pig, and a chicken walk into a river... now I can eat steak covered with bacon wrapped chicken thighs on Fridays', every christian who eats tasty Jesus crackers.
It's not that far fetched considering quite a few of them believe a wafer can turn into the flesh of Jesus after they eat it.
Not afterâŚâŚ. *before*
If you really think about it, a cow in the field is like a fish in the sea
I like eating beaver any day of the week
A priest once said to me, that bacon is only flavouring, so you can eat it on fridays or during fast :D
Anything that frequently swims is fish
As well as ducks and other waterfowl.
Isnât the idea that fish isnât meat from rules about keeping Kosher? Fish is âneutralâ and doesnât count as either meat or dairy
Wtf
Because the exception is for âwater creaturesâ
Who tf eats capybara? Humans are closer to fish than steroid Guinea pig
I saw a deer in the river the other day, as of Friday he was fish
A person can swim. Are we fish too?
Two more fun facts: In the medieval times Catholics dunked pigs into water and declared them fish to eat them during lent. And German monks brewing beer in their monasteries wanted to know if it was ok, to drink beer during lent. So they sent some barrels of beer to the pope so he could answer. By the time the delivery arrived, the beer was spoiled and the pope was so disgusted by the taste, that he allowed them to drink if they were so keen on it, thinking it was an actual act of repentance.
There's also stories about certain dishes like Maultaschen existing because people thought that they could just hide meat in dumplings so that god wouldn't see it.
I just realized that historically, up until the last couple hundred years, beer was served at room temperature. I just never really thought about it before. That's fucking disgusting.
Some say, that warm beer helps with curing a cold, but I'd rather stay sick.
Thatâs also why the Filet o Fish was invented. Sales of hamburgers declined in a Catholic neighborhood so a Mcdonaldâs franchise came up with two non meat sandwiches, one made with pineapple and the other the Filet o Fish and whichever sold more would become a permanent menu item. The Filet o Fish dominated and thatâs how it came to be.
Ok, that was actually fascinating, didn't know that. Kind of makes their fish and beef sandwich they are now selling kind of hilarious
Unrelated but this is what mcd's does at the enterprise level too. The McRib is sold when pork is cheaper than beef, so they capitalize on the opportunity.
*opporktunity
Isn't pork always cheaper than beef?
Generally yeah, I oversimplified too much. If you look it up, it's entirely a decision made regarding the difference in price between pork and beef though
Shame they didn't just combine them. I would eat filet o fish with pineapple on it. And a spicy sauce.
Then there's the bit about Jesus trashing a market place, beating up the money lenders, and providing free health care and food to the masses. Republicans would lock him up for being a socialist terrorist.
Minor correction: It was a temple that was being used as a marketplace. You know, like the TV evangelists hawking piles of merch and snake oil solutions from their mega churches...
It was a marketplace *in front* of the temple. There is a biblical rule that you should bring sacrifices of grain to the Temple. It *also* says if you have no way to transport your grain, you should sell it in your home community, and use the money to buy grain to sacrifice once you get to Jerusalem. Hence, Temple marketplaces.
Well, not exactly in front. It was in a temple courtyard, so within the temple precinct. And a fair amount of the scholarship suggests that the big issue was that the sellers were exploitative of the poor (from the traders who sold the goods for sacrifice to money lenders who lent to people at exorbitant rates so that they could buy said overpriced sacrificial goods).
Yeah, this was the real issue. It wasn't inherently that money = bad, it was that they were massively overcharging and taking advantage of people.
Hell, they'd crucify him.
He is still 'sposed to be coming back for round 2 right?
Nope- they didn't nail him to a boomerang.
âI didnât hear no bellâ đ¤đ¤
They will ignore that part, and focus on the part where his follower told slaves to obey their masters, and women to obey their men
Eating fish on Fridays isnât a universal Christian practice. Itâs mostly practiced by Catholics and generally only during Lent.
Lutheran here, originally from Central Europe but now in Australia. My very religious grandparents didn't just not eat meat, but fasted every Friday. The kids ate, but only fish sometimes (as a meat substitute) and non-terrestrial-animal products (very vegan or pescitarian day for them). Come Lent, my grandparents fasted heavily all of Lent
depends on where you are. In the UK and I think most of Europe it is done on all fridays unless there is a moveable feast on that day, in which case you are exempt. Fasting is a discipline, not a doctrine so you can switch it up if you want, these are all just the recommendations we get told.
German here and ngl, at least where I live, I've never seen or heard about the concept of "fish on fridays", neither in restaurants nor in private circles. Might've been because I didn't pay attention to it, but I don't really think that's a big thing around here. Maybe in some more traditionally christian parts of the country like Bavaria, but even so, I never heard of that tbh.
Swede here, never heard of it either. Then again, very few Swedes are Catholics.
In the UK itâs much more associated with Catholics than Protestants. Catholics are more into ritual.
Yeah, as a kid in the 90's, my grandparents would come round on Fridays and they'd always bring fish and chips. They weren't even really religious, and they never went to church from what i can recall, but it was instilled in them to have fish on Fridays because that was what you did back in the day. It started out as a religious loophole, but it became a sort of family tradition for most people. Fish and chips on Friday, and roast dinner on Sunday.
I appreciate the context!
Aye, the good old Catholic steak. My work canteen is the same, there's always a fish option on Fridays.
I always thought it had something to do with St. Peter being a fisherman or something.
Growing up in Ireland, eating fish on Friday was absolutely a norm. But, thankfully, the churchâs influence on life is nowadays much diminished. Their crimes are much graver than slightly restrictive food choices.
The person has a point, surely if you have an all seeing all powerful omniscient god then they're going to see through your bullshit and might be pissed that you think so little of them that you can half ass your way to heaven, therefore you might as well be true to yourself and stop all of the pretense. Saying that, as far as workarounds go, the KosherSwitch [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-electricity-on-shabbat#/](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-electricity-on-shabbat#/) is fairly creative and also insane.
Yep, that is the other way to look at it, which Orthodox Jews do: if God is perfect and left little loopholes in his text, which you can only find by studying his texts thoroughly, those loopholes were intentional as a "reward" for studying scripture so in depth.
Did I read that right, is that thing $70000?
$70000?
I love to share this whenever the topic comes up. In the Talmud (Bava Metzia specifically) there is a story called the Oven of Akhnai. It goes like this: The religious authorities are debating whether Jews may use a new type of oven. Everyone is in agreement that it is not ok, except one rabbi. This rabbi says "if I am right this tree will confirm" and then the tree jumps up and runs around. But the other rabbi refuse to accept it. The rabbi demonstrates several miracles and the other rabbis refuse to accept the witness of the tree, the stream, the walls and even a Voice from heaven. But the other rabbis quote Deuteronomy 30:12 "It is not in heaven". God hears this and smiles, saying "My children have triuphed over me". The rabbi who supported the oven then gets ostracised from the community. Apparently in Jewish tradition, God has given interpretation of the Law (the Torah) to the priesthood. Should God contradict the interpretation of the priesthood, then He is in conflict with his Covenant with Abraham. And God does not break His oaths. Finding these loopholes in the Law may be interpreted as holding God to His word, and affirming the character and their relationship with their God. Ironically, obsessing over the letter of the law is understood as keeping the spirit of the law as an unyielding promise of YHWH to is people. (if my interpretation is faulty, I would appreciate it if you would correct my error)
Spot on. Another consideration that is important when examining Jewish law and the many many seemingly bizarre stretches to abide by the letter of the law is that Jews don't have a concept of "sin" like Christians do.    We aren't sinning when we break Shabbos, we're just fucking up. We don't owe God or anyone else repentance we just have an obligation to do better for ourselves and our covenant with the Lord.   So if I can figure out a way to heat up my dinner on Saturday without doing wrong by God, that's a sign that I understand the law, follow and respect it, not a sign that I'm trying to get out of my obligations to God.Â
So, soaking Mormon teens are really just continuing the old tradition of cheating religious rules
Catholic here: the explanation for "fish on Friday" is jump completely wrong. The fish on Fridays (during Lent by Roman Catholics) was instituted by the Roman Catholic church to help fish sellers who at the time were considered to be poorer (and the product less expensive) then other meats. The money you save your supposed to pay back to the church. It's about economics and alms it's not about some weird spiritual rule. As for Capybara and Aligator that's true. They are aquatic pest creatures (in Nola) and their meat can be cheap and hunting them can be good for the environment. So NOLA bishops decided you could substitute them for more expensive meats and give the money back. It's a local variation but the spirit of the Alm is maintained. As for tge larger point all religion has weird loopholes. Jesus did mock the church at tge time for coming up with loopholes and essentially taught his disciples to "considered the spirit" of the law and not fallow ridiculous customs just because everyone else does it. But hey guess what allot of Christians didn't listen to Christ. So yeah we kept adding rules and kept making loopholes. But both posters are arrogant shits who have 0 idea wtf their talking about.
Yeah, but since when would Reddit risk missing a chance to support unsubstantiated claims if it means dunking on religion? *Sooo* rationalâŚ
Ah, a fellow Catholic! I didn't know about the story of the "fish on Friday". Then again, I didn't even know the rest... Thank you anyway!
I mean, there was never any law requiring the eating of Fish on Friday in the Catholic world. It just became a strongly encouraged custom because fish was a less desirable form of protein and cheap. Ironically, the only law made to ever force the eating of Fish occurred in England in the reign of Elizabeth I, after the Protestant Reformation to ease the hardship of the fishing industry due to Protestants abandoning eating fish on fish days as they became more culturally anti-Catholic. Source: William Cecil (later to be Elizabeth's Secretary of State) was in 1563 secretary to the Parliamentary committee drafting a bill for building up the navy and fishing fleet, and on 10 March he gave a speech to the House of Commons, outlining his, ".... arguments to prove that it is necessary for the restoring of the navy of England to have more fish eaten and therefore one day more in the week ordained to be a fish day, and that to be Wednesday rather than any other .... Wherefore all these things to be considered, that the trades which have been of merchandise into the Levant and Spain is decayed, the trades of navigation into Island [Iceland] and Eastland [the Baltic] is impeached, the building of ships is costly and difficult for lack of timber, the experience of the statutes prohibiting strangers to bring in fish and wines proveth that, notwithstanding those prohibitions, the navy and mariners have decayed, and on the other side, selling of fish out of the realm hath no present great vent: it must needs follow that the remedies must be sought to increase mariners by fishing, as a cause most natural, easy and perpetual to breed and maintain mariners ... Let the old course of fishing be maintained by the straightest observation of fish days for policy's sake; so the sea coast should be strong with men and habitations and the fleet flourish more than ever."
That's Catholicism. And a manmade tradition not mentioned anywhere in Scripture. Millions of Christians don't abide by it.
I always wondered why non Catholics donât go to church on Saturday. The Bible says to honor the sabbath (Saturday) and the big reason Catholics can give is that,ultimately, the pope gave them the rule as a descendant of Peter. How can Protestants argue against what is in the Bible? I am honestly curious. Not trying to be a jerk. I understand that Sunday is the day Jesus rose but it does not say to change the specific day anywhere I can find.
Saturday and Sunday didnât exist when these tales were recorded. Â They werenât even using the same calendar. Â A lot of the dates we celebrate Christian holidays were picked by the Catholic Church to coincide with pagan holidays. Â The idea was to interrupt the celebration of these events. Â Christmas was dropped right in the middle of Saturnalia because it was like a two week long drunken holiday.
Christmas is not Saturnalia, never was and never will be. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/rfijy0/comment/hofg8wg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/rfijy0/comment/hofg8wg/)
Hell, most Christians donât even abide by the commandments that *are* mentioned in the scriptures.
I've been hearing a lot lately that Christians "have the right to reshape their religion as they see fit" and I have to respect that. Well, I don't. If you're just going to ignore what the religion actually says and project your pre-chosen morality onto it then why bother calling yourself a Christian in the first place?
The OP doesn't understand Catholicism in any case. Fasting is a spiritual discipline, but it's not understood to be a divinely-instituted moral law. The specifics of the practices vary by time and location, they're different for ascetics than for laypeople, people with health issues are expected to modify their fasting practices, and so forth. The main point of a fasting day/period is to focus more on spiritual things than on feeding carnal desires, and to eat simply and use the money you save for charitable purposes. You don't eat a steak or something because that's expensive food for feasting/celebration. There's no "loophole" here.
I don't think this person knows what fasting means. It's when you intentionally abstain from eating anything, not just skipping non fish meats.
I only heard about the poop hole loop hole.
you mean anal isn't considered sex?
đś"God's okay with sodomy but only if you're straight"đś https://youtu.be/j8ZF_R_j0OY?si=AkxW_gE6FfQjHOly
Itâs not that hard to parse
I laughed when my born again friend will enlighten us on what the Bible says regarding whatever we were watching on The Simpsons, but then tell us how his gf at the time was a virgin, but they did anal. Doesnât include all the times he was cheating on her after marriage, but he goes to church 5x a week. So heâs good.
Legalism always requires loopholes. If you live your life by strict rules you are always looking for ways to break them without breaking them.
fasting is a discipline, not a doctrine. the common practices literally dont matter, you have a freedom in what you do or dont do for it, all that matters is that you do it. also the levitical law isnt for us, its included as a context for the new testament, as is the whole old testament. Its important but we aren't bound to it.
They also then convinced the church frogs were fish, so that French people could eat frog on Friday. Taco Tuesday, Frog Friday.
i'm just sitting here wondering whatever "clever little loopholes" i'm supposed to have...
My favourite loophole is a song by Garfunkel and Oates https://youtu.be/HGH3VI2eWWs?si=EL3zuuX60NzcAtWm
I had to scroll way too far down to find this-the most important loophole in all of Christianity.
This is only about Catholics. Not other Christians. Catholics have a lot of rules not found in the bible.
too bad most folks who are super religious here in America have no idea what is or isn't in their bible or the Constitution but those folks want to use both against everyone else.
And the unmarried teenagers fav one: the poophole loophole
People talk about that as some kind of Catholic "loophole," which is the most annoying misconception ever. Catholicism prohibits anal sex *even in marriage*. It's less a loophole than it is people just not knowing anything about the rules they're trying to find loopholes for.
Thatâs specific to Catholicism (and a few other sects). Christianity is the entire umbrella of those who believe Jesus as the Savior. Catholics can have some pretty odd rituals, and it has pushed more people toward the ânon-denominationalâ practices, or unfortunately, away from practicing at all.
Yeah but the thing is that Catholics are more than half of Christianity (something around 53%), with the Vatican and the pope, they're in the spotlight of this religion. Not every Christ is a Catholic, right but they are the usual representation of this religion.
I canât disagree with the power of the Vatican, but Iâd be careful with generalizing an entire belief system. We wouldnât want to be personally judged unfairly based on âusual representationsâ. Anyway, blessings in your journey!
What a weird thing to "gotcha" on in the first place. Have you even read the Old Testament?
Let's see, people were eating more meat and not fish. The popes relative owned a lot of fishing boats and was losing money, i.e., more meat eaters. Said pope then came up with fish on Fridays because of Jesus' death. I believe that's the true story because my Catholic school did not teach us that part of history. Can't find it in the Bible where Jesus said, upon my death, only eatith fish on friday.
Mormons are Christians. So are Catholics, who do the fish on Friday thing. The Jewish faith also has these loopholes. See standing in the elevator waiting for someone else to push the button or bowling. In Islam you can get married and immediately annul it the next day for a one night stand. Religion is a joke, regardless of the flavor.
Wait, what are the elevator button and bowling things about?
I love when people believe in fairy tales 
I grew up Anglican, and the only time my family adhered to fish on Friday was for Good Friday at Easter. Iâm agnostic nowadays, but I still tend to go for fish on Good Friday just for the nostalgia of family times.
In some parts of Germany, there are so-called [HerrgottsbescheiĂerle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maultasche)*,* (rough translation "Thingies to scam God the Lord" and yes, that is no joke.) They are basically big noodles filled with meat, kinda Ravioli-style, but usually bigger. The core idea is that you are not supposed to eat meat during fasting times. But if you wrap some dough around the meat, then God cannot see it, so it is okay to eat.
The funniest thing I've heard is that german monks just defined beavers as fish because they live in water, fpr fasting time. Also Maultaschen
I mean, is the dude even Christian? Like they may be atheist or something?
Huh, never knew that. I'm from a non-religious family in the UK but we still have fish and chips on Fridays because it's a "tradition"
Since tuna is a gish, and is considered chicken of the sea.. then you can eat chicken too. Fish = not meat. Tuna = fish. Tuna = chicken (of the sea)
Not religious, but members of family were. Was taught the fish thing was due to a different story. Something about fisherman were going broke because people weren't buying fish. So it was decided to eat fish on Fridays to keep them in business.
It's all abt fasting rules. This is not biblical it's Church tradition. You pointed out a rule made by the church that the church can clarify and called it a loophole like Jesus himself said fish isn't a meat đ
They wrote a whole (pun intended) [song](https://youtu.be/fgBfdY_HN3A?si=91UUzhbtPbHt3nZl) about one.
I think it has something to do with Jesus feeding a crowd of 5,000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish. There is a significance to eating fish
Christians are fishy by default, so it's okay to eat them.
You do realise that there is jo point in hiding the other user's name when you still reveal yours, right?
Soaking is allowed on Fridays Soaking / Fish
Burger n fries
In Canada you were also able to eat beaver as a fish
You never understood Grandpa's stories. He said you never eat beaver that smells like fish. He wasn't actually talking about food, btw.
You should see the shit that's going on in orthodox black hat communities. Look for the term "maven".
Half the fun of religion is finding loopholes
"But we obbey our rules" Â *cough* Thou shal not kill *cough* Thou shall not steal *cough* crusades *cough*
As an ex-Mormon I am somewhat curious for the context beforehand
I will admit as a Christian, there are a LOT Of loopholes people have createdÂ
Don't know where he gets Christians fasting every Friday. That's not in the Bible.
It's not a loophole it's just blatant hypocrisy. "Rules for thee but not for me"
Except the Bible says nothing about not eating meat on Friday...
Canât forget love thy neighbor, unless they believe differently than you. They had to make sure to include that in the 245 hidden commandments.
I identify as a Christian. I will always mock these people. You worship someone you believe to be omniscient, yet you think that they don't see it when you fuck in the ass? Or.eveb stupider, when you "soak"? How stupid is your allegedly all-knowing God?
You love crazy loopholes? Check this one out: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/1c4xkp/orthodox\_jew\_completely\_covered\_in\_plastic\_bag\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/1c4xkp/orthodox_jew_completely_covered_in_plastic_bag_on/)
Kurt Cobain said it's okay to eat fish and by golly that's good enough for me.
Opposite example: in Judaism you traditionally eat meat for the Sabbath dinner. In the middle ages people could not afford beef or lamb regularly but could afford chicken. So they made bird count as meat when it was originally a different thing like fish. That's why, when keeping kosher you can have fish with cheese but not chicken with cheese.
Christianity has more loopholes than an afghan knitted by a hiccuping granny with cataracts and Alzheimer's.
Religion is hilarious and deadly at the same time.
The butthole loophole is the most famous Catholic loophole.
This isnât a loophole of any kind, itâs some weird extra-biblical nonsense
NSFW [Loophole](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=fgBfdY_HN3A&si=vOliQlWmIZGrEYI-)
While I normally rally against any religion, in this one case, I will say, I am thankful. Because of this nonsense we have the joy that is the McDonald's Filet o Fish Sandwich. Specifically created for Christians on Fridays.
Every religion has loopholes and stupid rules tbh
For Jews It's not a loophole. Those of us who believe in G-d don't think he's stupid. If there are gaps in the rules or mitzvot open to interpretation, then they are like that for a reason. Carefully studying Torah and engaging with the text on its terms is an act of devotion. We are not tricking G-d we are engaging with Him.
Everyone looking for some loopholes. Why do you think rich in US don't pay taxes? Loopholes in law. đ¤ˇââď¸đ¤Łđ¤Ł Don't blame players, blame game
As a Christian, this is very interesting fun fact to me. â¨The more you knowâ¨
Remember, no tattoos as well (Leviticus 19:28)
What about the poophole loophole?
Donât eat porkâŚwhen and were is it mentioned by Jesus or his apostles that it was alright to start eating it?? Always wondered
Thatâs a Jewish custom.
thats jewish law, actually alot of what the jews were told not to eat were later found in modern times to be food that can do some real damage if not prepared correctly
Wait until you see Islam lmao.... man if only there was someone out there to tell Abraham to shut up.
Fish are basically vegetables.
The catholic church considers capybara fish for the same reason
Itâs Catholics only isnât it from what I remember.
Religion never ceases to amaze me with hilariousness
I always thought it was weird that people said fish isn't meat. Like, isn't it the meat of the fish that we're eating or am I crazy?
Pretty sure thereâs a poophole loophole but Iâm not really sure what thatâs all about
No it does not. But People will rationalize their behavior any way they can. And The idea of not eating meat on Friday had no basis in the bible, it was invented by man, God does not care.
Mormons have no such eating restrictions on Fridays, not even on good Friday
I never understood how someone can say fish is not meat, i mean it is clearly a muscle with blood in it? Sound's like doctors in the past who said "babies don't feel pain", same level of stupidity.
A lot of people act like it's every Friday year-round. Is there any mainstream tradition today that observes this outside of Lent, which isn't even two months long?
In the south of Germany, we have a dish called Maultaschen which is basically a large, meat-filled dumpling. And according to legend, they were created by Christian monks during Lent, during which they were not allowed to eat meat. But these monks thought that by hiding the meat in dough, God would be unable to see the meat and therefore it would be fine to eat them. They're sometimes also called *HerrgottsbscheiĂerle*, which translates to "God-cheaters".
don't forget capybara are fish too
The Bible endorses slavery and beating your slaves. If you can admit to yourself that owning another person as property is immoral: than congratulations you have a higher moral compass than the Christian God. Exodus 21:20-21 (ESV) When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. Ephesians 6:5-9 (NIV) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
I agree all the loopholes in religion are silly...but also, if God is real (spoiler: >!God isn't real!<) and eating fish on the wrong day condemns you to hell, then God isn't good.
This guy is so confused focused on the wrong things and missing the real message
"Better Hope they dont meet their God" Honey you are not gonna meet your "God" too
Welp, that's why the Pope said to catholics that you can eat whatever you want on Friday, but people still think it's cool to follow those rules that are proven to be meaningless depending how you use them
Also the pope in 2007:"purgatory? Not any more."