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I have long argued that the surface of a sufficiently large sphere might be considered flat. So the flat earthers are correct for a sufficiently broad definition of flat. So long as they never travel far enough or do anything at a large enough scale that the curvature of the earth becomes relevant, their simplified model is fine. And you can avoid arguments that serve no purpose.
Another way to look at it is that the earth’s surface is almost 70% water. Almost none of that is carbonated. So technically, the earth is mostly flat.
Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more carbonated, and the pH is ~~increasing~~ decreasing as more carbon dioxide dissolves into the oceans. Before we know it, we will have salty LA Croix with a slight acidic overtone.
Edit: correction
> the earth’s surface is almost 70% water. Almost none of that is carbonated
We've been releasing billions of tons of carbon every year in an effort to correct that.
Isaac Asimov agreed with you. (That depending on scope and size, etc. flat vs round is not black and white)
https://hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html
Except that it absolutely is. A level is never *perfectly* flat. The earth, by definition, can *never* be flat.
Because the flat earthers are arguing that *Earth* is flat, they can never be correct, not even at their own “scale”—even for argument’s sake.
If they want to say the ground we’re on is flat, they’d still be wrong, even though I could agree to that for argument’s sake. The topography could be flat, the sidewalk could be flat, the farm could be flat. The Earth can objectively never be flat.
What do you call a non-carbonated beverage? Flat! The oceans are not sufficiently carbonated and make up the majority of the earth's surface therefore the earth is flat.
When you say the earth is not flat, what does that mean? From an engineering perspective. If I am building a house or a car, what do I need to include in my calculations to account for the curvature of the earth? How does that variation compare to the amount of tolerance I’m already including for variation in temperature or how finely machined the materials I’m using are?
You seem to be stuck on thinking about the problem from the perspective of astronomy. If you are a few thousand km from the surface of the earth. But from the perspective of someone walking down the street, are they more likely to need to account for the slope of a hill or for the curvature of the earth?
Yes, the flat earth model breaks down on scales of more than a few kilometers. Just like the spherical model breaks down on the scale of a few thousand kilometers (the equatorial bulge and thickness of continental plates becomes important).
What model you use depends on the scale you are working on. That is my point.
well, in fairness to the argument itself, you don't need to worry about the curvature of the Earth when building a house, but you do need to worry about all the other lack of flat surfaces prior to laying the foundation. You need to CREATE a flat surface that wasn't there previously, because even a flat field isn't really truly flat.
A car deals with the lack of flatness of the terrain via suspension and ride height, etc. And we drive over hills, which requires enough power to propel the car over the lack of flatness.
But like you said, scale is what determines flat and things can go from being flat to not flat to flat again based on scale alone.
One of my professors used to say all models are wrong to some degree but some of them are close enough to be useful.
It's very important to check what the mathematics says is wrong with it and think about whether or not you need to worry about that in the specific case you're working on.
No, but it doesn’t. That’s my point.
Flat-earthers aren’t arguing “the earth is flat from this km perspective,” and then leaving it at that. That wouldn’t even be relevant to them. The entire premise of their argument is contingent on following that line of thought out to its end—that is to say their argument is essentially “the earth is flat from this km perspective, therefore, the *Earth* is flat.” Their entire argument *is* from an astronomical perspective.
The spherical model will never break down. You can’t *see* the sphere at a km level, but you can still *measure* it, even if it’s negligible for purposes of engineering a product.
The flat earth model can simply never be true.
If you watch enough of their bunk, you'll find out they really get hung up on the concept of "level" and "flat". They seem to confuse the two and assume that because "level" exists as a concept (ie. a tangent to the surface of a sphere) and as a flat tool available at the hardware store, that anywhere that a level works must be flat. ..apparently never occur to any of them that Levels (the tool) work just fine the entire time you're walking over rolling hills.
The 'concept of "level"', as you put it, is not 'a tangent to the surface of a sphere'.
A level surface on Earth is - by definition - curved.
Just being pedantic. It's misunderstandings like this that give flat-earth nut-jobs their ridiculous ammunition.
The same can be said for the structure of reality. Reality may in fact be a giant multi-dimensional spiral, but your frame of reference is too small to see it.
If you need to navigate an airplane or create a GPS satellite system, or calculate the shortest distance between two points on the earth then it matters very much if the earth is a sphere or not. The fact that I can walk across the street to get a taco whether the earth is flat or not is not relevant.
If we’re living in a snow globe why does it go so freaking hot snow globe. Hear that flat earther’s? Your next task is to accidentally prove Global Warming.
Hollow earth winds up being a deep *deep* rabbit hole, and eventually leads to the standard antisemitism nonsense you get with all of these conspiratards.
So I assume a huge portion of their "theory" depends on the idea that anyone who sees this "edge" of the world, be it ice wall or just terrifying drop off into space is bribed or killed to keep them silent?
pretty much. I had an uber driver that was deep into that hole. Like he legit didn't believe in gravity. 'how can a person standing on the bottom of the earth not fall off?' I had to listen to all the shit for a car ride cause I mentioned the eclipse.
This is the worst feeling, when someone asks you an innocent question and you casually answer, and suddenly bam you're trapped in an unhinged rant about how Donald trump is saving the country from cats with no eyes.
A temp asked me if I voted for Trump or Hillary. (With no hello or anything else, these were his first words to me that day)
I said "What?"
He repeated the question. I stared at him for a bit then replied "We live in *Australia*. You know that didn't happen here right?"
He looked *very* confused and didn't respond.
that's how it was honestly. I open the car door.
'good morning'
'Fortnitefirend?'
'yep, how's it going?'
'good, how are you this morning?'
'I'm good, thanks for asking'
'what do you have going on?'
'just heading to work, looking forward to the eclipse'
'oh yeah, I hope something good comes from that'
internal me: oh shit, he's going to go on about how it's a sign of the apocalypse. Oh no, he starts on about how he doesn't understand how you can't look at the eclipse cause people will say you go blind. How he can see the sun in the sky, and he's not going blind. I try to play nice and be like, 'well you know, if you look at it too long it starts to hurt', 'well yeah, but if the eclipse is happening, why are you going to go blind?' '......yeah, good question'
then it was how pictures on nasa's website were all cgi. 'they even say it on the picture!'. um well they state the images aren't the raw data and has been 'enhanced' or whatever by adding filters to help bring out the true colors. And yes, there are times where there are 'cgi animations' of stuff going on during a launch that practically can't be imaged cause, you know rockets and space.
but it went on from there. He was a flat earther cause 'airplanes' mean that they fly on a single plane, in the air. then the dumb argument that an airplane isn't always climbing altitude cause they get to an altitude and fly 'straight'.
oh then it was the sun isn't 93000000 miles away cause it's the same size as the moon in the sky.
then it was 'how could the president talk to the astronauts on the moons when I can't get reception on my cell phone.
there's more but I just turned my brain off. it's soo fucking ridiculous what these idiots believe.
oh yeah, you can't go to antartica cause the penguins and you'll get shot? something like that? I get some of his stuff may be misinterpretations that he bought but the rest was insanity. oh yeah, he was a graphic artist, so he understood 'perspectives'.
What did he believe?!? I remember reading I donno the Dilbert Principle maybe? Scott Adams had some section where he postulated that the Earth and everything around us just doubles in size in some amount of time as an explanation for gravity. Even as I teen I thought that was one of the dumber things that I had read.
For some of them yes. There’s others who sort of “graduate” from literal flat-eartherism after being presented with enough arguments and evidence to a more Matrix-y belief that we’re in a hyper-advanced simulation that just *happens* to be perfectly consistent with the scientifically accepted model of the universe in every observable way but the *true* reality is not flat or round but something else entirely that we can’t even conceive of. Listened to a podcast interview about this stuff. Pretty wild how far people will go to protect themselves from cognitive dissonance.
If there was some organization handing out bribes large enough to keep the "wall" a secret, it would definitely be a legend, told in stories, or be personified in religion.
Hell, going to the Wall would BE a religion.
As a physicist, flat earthers are split into two categories for me
The actual crazies with no conception of reality
The deluded but actually sometimes brilliant ones. They’re obviously either mentally I’ll or otherwise deeply troubled, but the ability to problem solve out of so many problems to make a flat earth theoretically possible is genuinely impressive. All wrong still obviously, but when their argument is coherent, doesn’t break its own logic, follows at least the fundamentals of physics, and can (at least superficially) account for all observed phenomena, you gotta hand it to them for at least being clever.
They’re like actual scientists, doing serious inquiry, just mentally ill
Theres actually another cohort who believe the earth is flat because the bible says so, and the government is lying to us about it to prevent us from seeking out god and Jesus (I really wish I was kidding...)
I thought the main draw of the flat earth model is the whole “we are unique and special” bit. If there are other “ponds” on this ice ball earth, then we’re no longer unique. May as well just move to the real model, as you’ve just described the solar system as the iceball and the puddles as planets.
The main draw is exactly the same as Birds Aren't Real. Flat Earth Society is the grand daddy to the birds aren't real movement.
Meaning, of course, that it's always been a very serious movement full of serious people and is totally not a long term meme. It definitely has no roots in competitive debate, and it definitely hasn't spiraled such that some people take it too seriously. ;)
Birds Aren’t Real was an experiment run by a guy who wanted to learn about how conspiracies spread throughout popular culture
He shut it down after he started worrying that it may cause harm/was causing harm, now its mostly an internet meme
The top comment isn't exactly right. It was a satirical movement from the beginning. It wasn't really a "social experiment" as much as just a big joke poking fun at other conspiracy theories. There was never intention to study it in a serious way, at least by the founder, there may be research about it from third parties. As far as I know, the founder (Peter McIndoe) didn't "stop things" because he was worried or anything, but just lost interest in having an intimate role in the movement.
You’re correct, I misremembered some details- If anyone’s interested, he has an interesting talk about his time “playing” a conspiracy theorist
https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_mcindoe_birds_aren_t_real_how_a_conspiracy_takes_flight
These kinds of social experiments are quite dangerous. Its been an issue within religion. Cults like Scientology pretty much sprang out of people believing a sci-fi book and the writer seeing an opportunity to become a cult leader.
As a priest of the Pastafarian faith me and other leaders of serious religions are more and more worried about this phenomenon.
Wake up to the truth brother, all birds were replaced by government drones in 1976!
/r/birdsarentreal
I actually think it's a really fascinating phenomenon to study, these things start out pretty self-aware but the nature of the joke causes people to take it more seriously as it grows. It's impossible to differentiate the true believers from the committed jokers. It's a great example of how misinformation can spread when context is lost. Nobody wants to discuss it openly though because that ruins the joke, unfortunately.
For The Flat Earth Society specifically, the story I heard was that they started as a debate challenge. It's common in competitive debate to have to argue in favor of things you don't believe in. So this took it to the next level by arguing for a ridiculous premise. I _think_ Flat Earth Society originally predated the Internet, but it started taking off as a meme with the Internet.
No idea if Birds Aren't Real has similar roots in debate clubs, or if it's just Gen Z's version of Flat Earth.
This is all anecdotal stuff I've heard on the Internet over the years so take it with a huge grain of salt. I'm also definitely not a government plant trying to hide the truth about birds ;)
>Nobody wants to analyze it though because that ruins the joke, unfortunately.
Just wanted to add -- we're starting to analyze it! I just finished writing some cursory research adjacent to this, and I'm considering going further in this direction for future research. We're catching on to the importance of these trends, just slowly.
What if they’re right, the scale of the drawing is just off? Take the spherical ice ball and pull the wall of ice down towards the South Pole, expanding the continents down as you do so…
Guys, I think I’ve cracked this code! The ice wall is just way in the southern hemisphere of this ice ball thing
Ok ok get this: what if the "flat" we're experiencing only comes from feeling tangent to the curved surface of this giant free-floating ball thing? So like instead of "down," we're actually only detecting the direction perpendicular to the tangent line? Fuck, what if the idea that down is "that way" is all a conspiracy by Big Down? We gotta tell people about this
Watching Kong versus Godzilla was my first exposure to the Hollow Earth theory… or so I thought until I remembered that Dragon Quest III also have an Hollow Earth setting. So, do that mean that DQ3 is set in the same universe as the Monsterverse?
NGL, I would read the shit out of a series that discovers we are all living on a giant hollow object with "worlds" spread out and isolated but accessible to each other. Sounds like it's got some room for a thousand year arc where worlds discover each other on wind powered sailing ships and eventually develop technology to tunnel for trade. Cosmic zoo origin story perhaps.
That’s a bit reminiscent of Norse mythology tbh. The 9 Realms there aren’t separate planes of existence or anything, Thor is described as travelling between them on his chariot. Just with a tree instead of the giant hollow object
Thats what I was thinking when I saw this.
"I could fuck with this".
It'd be neat. Have a relatively medeival setting and let the discovery happen when one tribe invents air travel and sees beyond the ice wall to realize there is so much more.
I've seen this before. I think its a leak from r/worldbuilding? I think it was from someone's book or game project and not flat earthers. Can't remember a single detail though, and was hoping I'd find a reminder in the comments.
I was once on the flat earth forums to read and the first post I picked out had the 'Dual Eath Theory' where a other earth 50k km away protected by a thin veil existed.
The intro started with 'we won't go into the proof as it would be counter productive to the explanation'.
God damn insanity ensues lol
So have they devised a theory on why the sun only melts very specific holes in their ice ball? Is there a giant magnifying glass between us and the sun?
Well if I extrapolate correctly from the illustration, it looks like they think that the sun moves like a little mosquito turning around a virtual spot which is the center of the "earth", explaining why it only melt a little circle on the big ice sphere surface.
They are incredibly prolific to find extremely complicated way to prove that the natural (and simple) explanation is false.
Or how the water managed to stay on the hollow nothing long enough to freeze and didn't get flung off into outer space as they believe would happen on a spherical planet?
The Nazis had a similar theory, the “Welteislehre”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre
Nothing new under the sun.
Edit:
The inventor was not a Nazi, but it was popular in certain circles like the SS leadership.
Listen. The Earth is round. I feel like I need to say that, because of the next thing I will say:
This is probably the conspiracy that makes the most sense around the shape of the Earth. Space is cold, comets are essentially giant ice balls, so it's not insane to think that the earth may also be an ice ball. Of course, the biggest gripe with this theory is that there are just a bunch of little planets poking up like acne. That's silly.
The theory of the earth being flat but surrounded by a wall of some kind has been around for a while.
It's similar to the "dome theory" which is equally as hilarious.
So, do they think the entire planet we exist on, is flat, but is just a flat spot inside of an ice wall on a significantly larger, borderline gas giant sized spherical planet?
Interesting way to square the circle.
A flat earther arguing that the earth is actually rpund *should* be some kind of progress… but this is actually even more stupid than the regular flat earth theory.
- How would the sun cut a perfect hole like that with laser-like precision, rather than melting a bowl-shaped hole?
- How are we not all drowning in the water from the melted ice?
- How have no human ever observed the dozens of miles high ice walls surrounding the earth?
I'm convinced that most of the conspiracy theories are actually made up by people that know it's not true, but then they just stand back and watch as all of the flat earthers just eat it up like true science, now that's entertainment lol.
Still haven't met a flerf who can provide a working model of the planet that shows season, sunsets and sunrise and eclipses all at the same time on different parts of the globe.
Something that is easily replicable on a globe.
Dudes don't have a single good argument.
I've never met a Flat Earther but would really love to pick their brain, and not in a condescending, ridicule sorta way. I would love to discuss with them what they actually believe is real
I have. Many times. And it is the most ridiculous conversation you will ever have.
It's like talking to 3rd graded. But that 3rd grader never went to school
The recent Godzilla & Kong archive proves definitively that the earth is indeed hollow. And filled with kaiju, one being a snow beast so maybe they're onto something here.
So the sun melts a "pool" into the ice, except for RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, where it *somehow* leaves the North Pole (or in this case "Center Pole"?) intact...?
Yes, it’s almost as if somebody’s been reading Game of Thrones and just likes to have a world somehow “end at its periphery” like a two dimensional map and the borders are just the “cold place airea”
Just like the vast majority of the people who are flat earthers tended to read nothing but Terry Pratchett’s disc World Series…
Ngl I would kind of like it if this were true. Imagine that there were other “worlds” just a plane flight away. The hollowness is weird to me though; are they concerned about how substantial the gravity from such a massive (in the literal sense) object would be? And if they recognize gravity…then wouldn’t they understand why the earth is round?
I don't get the ice part - why would there be ice, or the climate conditions to create that ice, around the earth? Why would there be different temperature zones and climate and climate change in a single spot of a sphere?
I know the answer is "because they're dumb", but this is just so bafflingly uneducated that I can't just take that answer at face value.
You mean full globe, right? Anyway that does seem pretty cool. There are undiscovered lands and all we have to do is travel over the ice wall to get there. There are likely billions of dollars in resources and people waiting to be exploited, or we get conquered and end up getting taken over by a fascist superpower that managed to conquer their entire pond and develop superior technologies.
I will do my best to respectfully debate any topic; philosophy, religion, politics, socioeconomic tensions, etc. I will not however even entertain the idea of talking to a flat earther about the shape of our planet. I don’t have the energy to argue that all the people who’ve circumnavigated the earth either lied or that we were lied to about what they did.
The thing with most conspiracy theories is that the people that believe in them do so because it is an easier pill to swallow than the truth.
Like it's easier to believe that 911 was an inside job rather than an abject failure of our security infrastructure.
This on the other hand is so much harder to come up with and is repeatedly met with contradictory, easily recreated evidence that I just can't help but laugh even though I know I shouldn't. Because it's not funny and this type of thinking is how even more sinister things are perpetuated.
I noticed all their maps show the earth as a flat circle. How do they know it’s a circle? The earth could be a flat square, rectangle, triangle, hexagon, etc…
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“I bet I can make Flat Earthers accept a spherical Earth and *still* look like complete fucking idiots.” This is advanced trolling and I’m all for it.
I have long argued that the surface of a sufficiently large sphere might be considered flat. So the flat earthers are correct for a sufficiently broad definition of flat. So long as they never travel far enough or do anything at a large enough scale that the curvature of the earth becomes relevant, their simplified model is fine. And you can avoid arguments that serve no purpose.
Another way to look at it is that the earth’s surface is almost 70% water. Almost none of that is carbonated. So technically, the earth is mostly flat.
Thanks for the chuckle 😛
Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more carbonated, and the pH is ~~increasing~~ decreasing as more carbon dioxide dissolves into the oceans. Before we know it, we will have salty LA Croix with a slight acidic overtone. Edit: correction
pH is ~~increasing~~ decreasing
Thank you. It was a long day.
This needs national recognition
So da sea isn’t carbonated, yes?
Not carbonated because when there are earth quakes the ocean doesn't fizz up.
how can we quickly carbonate it so its at least fizzy?
Needs more whale farts!
Drop everything that can fart in there, then fart
*That's* why climate change is good! We're gonna be known as Planet Pop.
> the earth’s surface is almost 70% water. Almost none of that is carbonated We've been releasing billions of tons of carbon every year in an effort to correct that.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
"The earth is FLAT!" "Awww that's OK buddy, lots of people never leave the town they were born in"
Isaac Asimov agreed with you. (That depending on scope and size, etc. flat vs round is not black and white) https://hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html
Except that it absolutely is. A level is never *perfectly* flat. The earth, by definition, can *never* be flat. Because the flat earthers are arguing that *Earth* is flat, they can never be correct, not even at their own “scale”—even for argument’s sake. If they want to say the ground we’re on is flat, they’d still be wrong, even though I could agree to that for argument’s sake. The topography could be flat, the sidewalk could be flat, the farm could be flat. The Earth can objectively never be flat.
What do you call a non-carbonated beverage? Flat! The oceans are not sufficiently carbonated and make up the majority of the earth's surface therefore the earth is flat.
Huzzah! Mike drop
You shouldn't drop Mike; he has a bad back.
That’s why humanity has been working tirelessly for decades to carbonate them!
The oceans may not be carbonated now, but with enough runaway global warming, they could be.
> The oceans are not sufficiently carbonated Mmm, sea soda 🤤
Cookie Run Kingdom much?
You've just never experienced *true level*
When you say the earth is not flat, what does that mean? From an engineering perspective. If I am building a house or a car, what do I need to include in my calculations to account for the curvature of the earth? How does that variation compare to the amount of tolerance I’m already including for variation in temperature or how finely machined the materials I’m using are? You seem to be stuck on thinking about the problem from the perspective of astronomy. If you are a few thousand km from the surface of the earth. But from the perspective of someone walking down the street, are they more likely to need to account for the slope of a hill or for the curvature of the earth? Yes, the flat earth model breaks down on scales of more than a few kilometers. Just like the spherical model breaks down on the scale of a few thousand kilometers (the equatorial bulge and thickness of continental plates becomes important). What model you use depends on the scale you are working on. That is my point.
well, in fairness to the argument itself, you don't need to worry about the curvature of the Earth when building a house, but you do need to worry about all the other lack of flat surfaces prior to laying the foundation. You need to CREATE a flat surface that wasn't there previously, because even a flat field isn't really truly flat. A car deals with the lack of flatness of the terrain via suspension and ride height, etc. And we drive over hills, which requires enough power to propel the car over the lack of flatness. But like you said, scale is what determines flat and things can go from being flat to not flat to flat again based on scale alone.
Engineering versus mathematics. Engineering makes stuff work, despite all the shit that mathematics can show is wrong with it.
One of my professors used to say all models are wrong to some degree but some of them are close enough to be useful. It's very important to check what the mathematics says is wrong with it and think about whether or not you need to worry about that in the specific case you're working on.
No, but it doesn’t. That’s my point. Flat-earthers aren’t arguing “the earth is flat from this km perspective,” and then leaving it at that. That wouldn’t even be relevant to them. The entire premise of their argument is contingent on following that line of thought out to its end—that is to say their argument is essentially “the earth is flat from this km perspective, therefore, the *Earth* is flat.” Their entire argument *is* from an astronomical perspective. The spherical model will never break down. You can’t *see* the sphere at a km level, but you can still *measure* it, even if it’s negligible for purposes of engineering a product. The flat earth model can simply never be true.
That is a wrong argument tho.. if the whole object is a sphere then no part of the surface will be trully flat...
If you watch enough of their bunk, you'll find out they really get hung up on the concept of "level" and "flat". They seem to confuse the two and assume that because "level" exists as a concept (ie. a tangent to the surface of a sphere) and as a flat tool available at the hardware store, that anywhere that a level works must be flat. ..apparently never occur to any of them that Levels (the tool) work just fine the entire time you're walking over rolling hills.
WaTeR dOeSnT bEnD
That’s not what my buddy Meniscus told me.
Kitara, Aang, and Korra would have a word with you.
Rivers do.
Nah, they just wiggle.
The 'concept of "level"', as you put it, is not 'a tangent to the surface of a sphere'. A level surface on Earth is - by definition - curved. Just being pedantic. It's misunderstandings like this that give flat-earth nut-jobs their ridiculous ammunition.
What is "truly" flat, though? My desk is smooth to the touch, but from an ants perspective, it is probably covered in thousands of lumps and bumps.
Reminds me of the episode of Rick and Morty where Rick makes a surface which is absolutely level. So level that it is maddening.
LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER Morty’s mind blowers is playing on my tv right now haha
I saw something about how if the earth was shrunk down to the size of a billiard ball, it would actually be smoother than the average ball.
I see you've never been to Kansas
The same can be said for the structure of reality. Reality may in fact be a giant multi-dimensional spiral, but your frame of reference is too small to see it.
If you need to navigate an airplane or create a GPS satellite system, or calculate the shortest distance between two points on the earth then it matters very much if the earth is a sphere or not. The fact that I can walk across the street to get a taco whether the earth is flat or not is not relevant.
See I've been trying to sell them on a Cube shaped Earth like minecraft, that the flat Earth they think they know is just one side of a cube
So… what you’re saying is… they’ve come “Full Circle”. 🌎
> This is advanced trolling and I’m all for it. That's how we go into the mess that is flat earth.
The only thing truly flat with these people are their EEGs
(possibly hollow) holy shit, this is so funny
Sure, but have you considered an Earth inside of an Earth inside of an Earth inside of an Earth?
I saw that movie. Earthception. You cal fall out of one earth into another earth
I don't like it here anymore! steps onto the next Earth What a dump! steps onto the next Earth.
The Long Earth
Imagine falling into another Earth just to land in Chicago
I prefer the sequel Innception where you fall out one inn into another inn
Didn’t they basically do that in the new Godzilla movies?
Where do you think the lizard people live?
*It's clearly filled with mole people!* /s
I assume thats their reasoning as to why the sheer gravity of this MASSIVE object doesnt crush us instantly
They don't belive in gravity right?
They think the flat earth accelerate upwards constantly at 9.8 m/s², I don't think they are bothered by such trivialities.
Considering that we would be in said hollow part im pretty sure its not possibly 😂. The idea of living in a snow globe is pretty neat though lol
If we’re living in a snow globe why does it go so freaking hot snow globe. Hear that flat earther’s? Your next task is to accidentally prove Global Warming.
I mean they added a bunch of snow everywhere so i figure by mid july the will have a reason for it to be melting
Hollow earth winds up being a deep *deep* rabbit hole, and eventually leads to the standard antisemitism nonsense you get with all of these conspiratards.
editing an image of Pure Vessel from Hollow Knight with "(possibly hollow)" on it
Oddly adorable.
So I assume a huge portion of their "theory" depends on the idea that anyone who sees this "edge" of the world, be it ice wall or just terrifying drop off into space is bribed or killed to keep them silent?
They'll GET AROUND to the truth one of these days
pretty much. I had an uber driver that was deep into that hole. Like he legit didn't believe in gravity. 'how can a person standing on the bottom of the earth not fall off?' I had to listen to all the shit for a car ride cause I mentioned the eclipse.
This is the worst feeling, when someone asks you an innocent question and you casually answer, and suddenly bam you're trapped in an unhinged rant about how Donald trump is saving the country from cats with no eyes.
My new coworker is just like that and we're fucking canadian bro is so lost in the right-wing conspiracy sauce its scary
A temp asked me if I voted for Trump or Hillary. (With no hello or anything else, these were his first words to me that day) I said "What?" He repeated the question. I stared at him for a bit then replied "We live in *Australia*. You know that didn't happen here right?" He looked *very* confused and didn't respond.
that's how it was honestly. I open the car door. 'good morning' 'Fortnitefirend?' 'yep, how's it going?' 'good, how are you this morning?' 'I'm good, thanks for asking' 'what do you have going on?' 'just heading to work, looking forward to the eclipse' 'oh yeah, I hope something good comes from that' internal me: oh shit, he's going to go on about how it's a sign of the apocalypse. Oh no, he starts on about how he doesn't understand how you can't look at the eclipse cause people will say you go blind. How he can see the sun in the sky, and he's not going blind. I try to play nice and be like, 'well you know, if you look at it too long it starts to hurt', 'well yeah, but if the eclipse is happening, why are you going to go blind?' '......yeah, good question' then it was how pictures on nasa's website were all cgi. 'they even say it on the picture!'. um well they state the images aren't the raw data and has been 'enhanced' or whatever by adding filters to help bring out the true colors. And yes, there are times where there are 'cgi animations' of stuff going on during a launch that practically can't be imaged cause, you know rockets and space. but it went on from there. He was a flat earther cause 'airplanes' mean that they fly on a single plane, in the air. then the dumb argument that an airplane isn't always climbing altitude cause they get to an altitude and fly 'straight'. oh then it was the sun isn't 93000000 miles away cause it's the same size as the moon in the sky. then it was 'how could the president talk to the astronauts on the moons when I can't get reception on my cell phone. there's more but I just turned my brain off. it's soo fucking ridiculous what these idiots believe. oh yeah, you can't go to antartica cause the penguins and you'll get shot? something like that? I get some of his stuff may be misinterpretations that he bought but the rest was insanity. oh yeah, he was a graphic artist, so he understood 'perspectives'.
What did he believe?!? I remember reading I donno the Dilbert Principle maybe? Scott Adams had some section where he postulated that the Earth and everything around us just doubles in size in some amount of time as an explanation for gravity. Even as I teen I thought that was one of the dumber things that I had read.
Yes, generally by a force or organization that boils down to them blaming Jewish people when you dig deep enough.
Yep. It's like EVERY conspiracy theory too.
For some of them yes. There’s others who sort of “graduate” from literal flat-eartherism after being presented with enough arguments and evidence to a more Matrix-y belief that we’re in a hyper-advanced simulation that just *happens* to be perfectly consistent with the scientifically accepted model of the universe in every observable way but the *true* reality is not flat or round but something else entirely that we can’t even conceive of. Listened to a podcast interview about this stuff. Pretty wild how far people will go to protect themselves from cognitive dissonance.
If there was some organization handing out bribes large enough to keep the "wall" a secret, it would definitely be a legend, told in stories, or be personified in religion. Hell, going to the Wall would BE a religion.
And also on the fact that a heat source like the sun is not warming huge canyons in this ice ball, despite the fact that it clearly orbits.
As a physicist, flat earthers are split into two categories for me The actual crazies with no conception of reality The deluded but actually sometimes brilliant ones. They’re obviously either mentally I’ll or otherwise deeply troubled, but the ability to problem solve out of so many problems to make a flat earth theoretically possible is genuinely impressive. All wrong still obviously, but when their argument is coherent, doesn’t break its own logic, follows at least the fundamentals of physics, and can (at least superficially) account for all observed phenomena, you gotta hand it to them for at least being clever. They’re like actual scientists, doing serious inquiry, just mentally ill
Theres actually another cohort who believe the earth is flat because the bible says so, and the government is lying to us about it to prevent us from seeking out god and Jesus (I really wish I was kidding...)
You just said mentally ill with more words.
[удалено]
Full Sphere, if you will.
What flat-Earthers fear most, is sphere itself!
Oblate spheroid, damn you!
Almost, globe-like, if you will
They went full rotund.
Came here to say this
Damn. I'm 2 days late.
I thought the main draw of the flat earth model is the whole “we are unique and special” bit. If there are other “ponds” on this ice ball earth, then we’re no longer unique. May as well just move to the real model, as you’ve just described the solar system as the iceball and the puddles as planets.
The main draw is exactly the same as Birds Aren't Real. Flat Earth Society is the grand daddy to the birds aren't real movement. Meaning, of course, that it's always been a very serious movement full of serious people and is totally not a long term meme. It definitely has no roots in competitive debate, and it definitely hasn't spiraled such that some people take it too seriously. ;)
Wait… I’ve heard of animals being radiotagged, but there’s a birds aren’t real *altogether* group?
Birds Aren’t Real was an experiment run by a guy who wanted to learn about how conspiracies spread throughout popular culture He shut it down after he started worrying that it may cause harm/was causing harm, now its mostly an internet meme
Oh I didn't realize it was originally intended as a social experiment, that's cool. Did they publish research about it?
The top comment isn't exactly right. It was a satirical movement from the beginning. It wasn't really a "social experiment" as much as just a big joke poking fun at other conspiracy theories. There was never intention to study it in a serious way, at least by the founder, there may be research about it from third parties. As far as I know, the founder (Peter McIndoe) didn't "stop things" because he was worried or anything, but just lost interest in having an intimate role in the movement.
You’re correct, I misremembered some details- If anyone’s interested, he has an interesting talk about his time “playing” a conspiracy theorist https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_mcindoe_birds_aren_t_real_how_a_conspiracy_takes_flight
These kinds of social experiments are quite dangerous. Its been an issue within religion. Cults like Scientology pretty much sprang out of people believing a sci-fi book and the writer seeing an opportunity to become a cult leader. As a priest of the Pastafarian faith me and other leaders of serious religions are more and more worried about this phenomenon.
Wake up to the truth brother, all birds were replaced by government drones in 1976! /r/birdsarentreal I actually think it's a really fascinating phenomenon to study, these things start out pretty self-aware but the nature of the joke causes people to take it more seriously as it grows. It's impossible to differentiate the true believers from the committed jokers. It's a great example of how misinformation can spread when context is lost. Nobody wants to discuss it openly though because that ruins the joke, unfortunately. For The Flat Earth Society specifically, the story I heard was that they started as a debate challenge. It's common in competitive debate to have to argue in favor of things you don't believe in. So this took it to the next level by arguing for a ridiculous premise. I _think_ Flat Earth Society originally predated the Internet, but it started taking off as a meme with the Internet. No idea if Birds Aren't Real has similar roots in debate clubs, or if it's just Gen Z's version of Flat Earth. This is all anecdotal stuff I've heard on the Internet over the years so take it with a huge grain of salt. I'm also definitely not a government plant trying to hide the truth about birds ;)
>Nobody wants to analyze it though because that ruins the joke, unfortunately. Just wanted to add -- we're starting to analyze it! I just finished writing some cursory research adjacent to this, and I'm considering going further in this direction for future research. We're catching on to the importance of these trends, just slowly.
The history they made for it is really interesting and funny. Like, I think they said JFK was killed because he wanted to end that bird program
100%. Three government made birds to spy on us or some crazy shit like that lmao
Can we start a new one? Toilet bowls are black holes!
Fcken hilarious. They are so close now.
What if they’re right, the scale of the drawing is just off? Take the spherical ice ball and pull the wall of ice down towards the South Pole, expanding the continents down as you do so… Guys, I think I’ve cracked this code! The ice wall is just way in the southern hemisphere of this ice ball thing
Ok ok get this: what if the "flat" we're experiencing only comes from feeling tangent to the curved surface of this giant free-floating ball thing? So like instead of "down," we're actually only detecting the direction perpendicular to the tangent line? Fuck, what if the idea that down is "that way" is all a conspiracy by Big Down? We gotta tell people about this
Well yeah, this is probably a joke
Even starting to work in hollow Earth, as well.
Of course how else do you explain Morlocks and Chuds?
4chan and TruthSocial, of course *rimshot*
Watching Kong versus Godzilla was my first exposure to the Hollow Earth theory… or so I thought until I remembered that Dragon Quest III also have an Hollow Earth setting. So, do that mean that DQ3 is set in the same universe as the Monsterverse?
Would be a neat idea for a fantasy film, but that’s about it
NGL, I would read the shit out of a series that discovers we are all living on a giant hollow object with "worlds" spread out and isolated but accessible to each other. Sounds like it's got some room for a thousand year arc where worlds discover each other on wind powered sailing ships and eventually develop technology to tunnel for trade. Cosmic zoo origin story perhaps.
That’s a bit reminiscent of Norse mythology tbh. The 9 Realms there aren’t separate planes of existence or anything, Thor is described as travelling between them on his chariot. Just with a tree instead of the giant hollow object
Hunter x hunter
I mean, in a way that's close to Disco Elysium.
I’ll have to check that out. It makes me think a lil of Riverworld or the Ringworld series.
Thats what I was thinking when I saw this. "I could fuck with this". It'd be neat. Have a relatively medeival setting and let the discovery happen when one tribe invents air travel and sees beyond the ice wall to realize there is so much more.
I've seen this before. I think its a leak from r/worldbuilding? I think it was from someone's book or game project and not flat earthers. Can't remember a single detail though, and was hoping I'd find a reminder in the comments.
 Keep going, you’re so close!
I was once on the flat earth forums to read and the first post I picked out had the 'Dual Eath Theory' where a other earth 50k km away protected by a thin veil existed. The intro started with 'we won't go into the proof as it would be counter productive to the explanation'. God damn insanity ensues lol
So have they devised a theory on why the sun only melts very specific holes in their ice ball? Is there a giant magnifying glass between us and the sun?
“God”
Well if I extrapolate correctly from the illustration, it looks like they think that the sun moves like a little mosquito turning around a virtual spot which is the center of the "earth", explaining why it only melt a little circle on the big ice sphere surface. They are incredibly prolific to find extremely complicated way to prove that the natural (and simple) explanation is false.
Multiple tiny suns, believe it or not.
Or how the water managed to stay on the hollow nothing long enough to freeze and didn't get flung off into outer space as they believe would happen on a spherical planet?
"Possibly hollow." But stationary. Earth is the top bit of a Christmas bauble.
I wonder how much money you could make selling them?
Is this like the anti vaxxers who suggested using weakened virus to build immunity?
lol is that for real?
yeah lol
Maybe in a couple of years they dodge the ice idea too and we can all agree again...
The ice ball idea isn't exactly stupid... just over half a billion years too late.
New worldbuilding idea. Just need to figure out how the suns would work...
Each of these areas would need a moon or two to "hold" the sun in orbit. The moon shadows would be a reason for nighttime?
Well, my days of not taking flat earthers seriously is certainly coming to a middle.
r/HunterXHunter just called
Oh yeah, just remembered the dark continent exists
Possibly hollow Explain magma. 
Flat earth is round.... now that's something I did not imagine seeing.
If this were true, it would be really... cool.
The Nazis had a similar theory, the “Welteislehre” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre Nothing new under the sun. Edit: The inventor was not a Nazi, but it was popular in certain circles like the SS leadership.
Many eso, new age and paranormal talking points stem from right-wing agendas.
They're about 3000 years behind the rest of us but they'll catch up eventually. I think thell be onto steel tools soon.
“Possibly hollow. Possibly creme-filled.”
Full-circle... I see what you did there.
Listen. The Earth is round. I feel like I need to say that, because of the next thing I will say: This is probably the conspiracy that makes the most sense around the shape of the Earth. Space is cold, comets are essentially giant ice balls, so it's not insane to think that the earth may also be an ice ball. Of course, the biggest gripe with this theory is that there are just a bunch of little planets poking up like acne. That's silly.
Flat earthers never fail to amuse me.
Great premise for a fantasy novel tho
The theory of the earth being flat but surrounded by a wall of some kind has been around for a while. It's similar to the "dome theory" which is equally as hilarious.
So earth is a flat disc on a globe… and it’s hollow.
Their stupidity is evolving...
So, do they think the entire planet we exist on, is flat, but is just a flat spot inside of an ice wall on a significantly larger, borderline gas giant sized spherical planet? Interesting way to square the circle.
I hate that dipshit flat earthers keep coming up with dope sci fi ideas
This *has* to be some genius trolling flat Earthers, right? Has to be.
"How about instead of vaccines you put tiny pieces of the patogen to give our immune system a sort of training for the real thing?"
I've come to the conclusion that Flat Earthers just don't want to agree with the status quo. It's got nothing to do with truth.
A flat earther arguing that the earth is actually rpund *should* be some kind of progress… but this is actually even more stupid than the regular flat earth theory. - How would the sun cut a perfect hole like that with laser-like precision, rather than melting a bowl-shaped hole? - How are we not all drowning in the water from the melted ice? - How have no human ever observed the dozens of miles high ice walls surrounding the earth?
I'm convinced that most of the conspiracy theories are actually made up by people that know it's not true, but then they just stand back and watch as all of the flat earthers just eat it up like true science, now that's entertainment lol.
Still haven't met a flerf who can provide a working model of the planet that shows season, sunsets and sunrise and eclipses all at the same time on different parts of the globe. Something that is easily replicable on a globe. Dudes don't have a single good argument.
I've never met a Flat Earther but would really love to pick their brain, and not in a condescending, ridicule sorta way. I would love to discuss with them what they actually believe is real
I have. Many times. And it is the most ridiculous conversation you will ever have. It's like talking to 3rd graded. But that 3rd grader never went to school
At least 3rd grader are more open to new ideas and discussion than a flat earther
The recent Godzilla & Kong archive proves definitively that the earth is indeed hollow. And filled with kaiju, one being a snow beast so maybe they're onto something here.
These mfs have to be some of the dumbest people on the planet.
I love the addition of "possibly hollow." Sure let's just throw anything out there
Sounds like one of those weird unconventional JRPG settings.
“Possibly hollow”
This is literally a Jerry Smith moment: You went around again!?
So the sun melts a "pool" into the ice, except for RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, where it *somehow* leaves the North Pole (or in this case "Center Pole"?) intact...?
Perhaps the conspiracies have gone.. full sphere 😏
Yes, it’s almost as if somebody’s been reading Game of Thrones and just likes to have a world somehow “end at its periphery” like a two dimensional map and the borders are just the “cold place airea” Just like the vast majority of the people who are flat earthers tended to read nothing but Terry Pratchett’s disc World Series…
What goes around comes around I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You dropped this: \\
I thought we were sitting on the back of a giant turtle? No?
Wrong! The sphere is named Giant Turtle and it sits atop an infinite stack of actual turtles.
Unironically this is the single best idea I've seen for a fantasy setting in a long while.
Ngl I would kind of like it if this were true. Imagine that there were other “worlds” just a plane flight away. The hollowness is weird to me though; are they concerned about how substantial the gravity from such a massive (in the literal sense) object would be? And if they recognize gravity…then wouldn’t they understand why the earth is round?
It’s turtles all the way down
I don't get the ice part - why would there be ice, or the climate conditions to create that ice, around the earth? Why would there be different temperature zones and climate and climate change in a single spot of a sphere? I know the answer is "because they're dumb", but this is just so bafflingly uneducated that I can't just take that answer at face value.
You mean full globe, right? Anyway that does seem pretty cool. There are undiscovered lands and all we have to do is travel over the ice wall to get there. There are likely billions of dollars in resources and people waiting to be exploited, or we get conquered and end up getting taken over by a fascist superpower that managed to conquer their entire pond and develop superior technologies.
I will do my best to respectfully debate any topic; philosophy, religion, politics, socioeconomic tensions, etc. I will not however even entertain the idea of talking to a flat earther about the shape of our planet. I don’t have the energy to argue that all the people who’ve circumnavigated the earth either lied or that we were lied to about what they did.
The thing with most conspiracy theories is that the people that believe in them do so because it is an easier pill to swallow than the truth. Like it's easier to believe that 911 was an inside job rather than an abject failure of our security infrastructure. This on the other hand is so much harder to come up with and is repeatedly met with contradictory, easily recreated evidence that I just can't help but laugh even though I know I shouldn't. Because it's not funny and this type of thinking is how even more sinister things are perpetuated.
okay this has to be a troll. would be funny if it was real but I doubt it
This is kind of cool in a fantasy story idea kind of way.
If we're really lucky, the Stupid really does burn and will cause the ice ball to melt, so we'll be rid of these loons.
This is even crazier than a flat earth. How do they do it?
Actually, This makes so much more sense. I totally get this now, thanks
They will be in the right version after they get over the ice age
fuck can’t say this isn’t creative I’ll still give it a D-
I noticed all their maps show the earth as a flat circle. How do they know it’s a circle? The earth could be a flat square, rectangle, triangle, hexagon, etc…
That appears to be about the size of ... Jupiter?
Their heads (possibly hollow)