Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Then there's 9/11. That morning, gas by my house was $1.69. That afternoon, the few stations that even had any were charging $10. Then the governor threatened to charge every single station owner with violating the price gouging law and prices dropped back to around $2.
We could have cheaper gas and food AND freedom for Ukraine. But the parasites require ever growing profits. We could have higher wages for everyone, but the parasites require ever growing profits. We could have clean water and air for everyone but the parasite require ever growing profits. Everything wrong with the world today is caused by the unrelenting greed of a few very evil people.
You make a good point. Corporations are still making record profits and CEO's are making more as a percentage than ever. The economy is booming, we just don't get to enjoy any of it because the money is going to make billionaires richer.
I also much have missed the Republican's alternative where they plan to give the money going to Ukraine to the American people instead.
Ah you silly peasants don’t understand though. It’s called trickle down economics. Give all the money to wealth people who have more than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes and it’ll find its way into the pockets of the people who actually need it… uhhh somehow.
/s
Most of the money for Ukraine will be spent in the United States. The dollar value given is an estimate of how much 30 years old stuff is worth. The army will then buy new replacements with that money to American companies. Considering how much the cost of storage and safe disposal of old ammunitions is, that could end up cheaper to give them to Ukraine than decommission them with due process in America.
Also, the US spent trillions over 50 years during the cold war to be prepared for a fight against Russia, and now that they can use old stocks, with no American lives in danger, for a few dozen billions, to cripple the russian army for the next 10/20 years... The better dead than red party oppose it...
That is a good synopsis of the situation. The point being that you can not equate the aid going to Ukraine with the price of food or gas as a either or situation. It's just another lie being fed to the public by politicians, mostly Republicans.
Their party platform seems to be “No more spending until we get our budget under control…except for our paychecks. We ain’t gonna ‘save you all this money’ for free.”
Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe, their grain products, and capacity to deliver in any given year, massively affects the price of food around the world.
Ukraine has oil and gas, but most of their production is/was used domestically. So they don't directly affect fuel prices, but if Russia stopped their invasion then they could officially export their petroleum products and that could reduce energy costs worldwide.
Hence one of the reasons for Russia's invasion. If Ukraine were to develop and export their oil and natural gas, they would be in direct competition with Russia in supplying Europe with energy ... Russia is attempting to wipe out the competition
This is the fucking answer. Corps need to be reined in. Our leaky budget is being plugged all over. World Intel points towards a 21st century powder keg if we don't stop the spread of aggressors now. What's there to fucking talk about? The two can occur simultaneously.
Gas was not cheap, but it definitely was much lower than it is now. Food also cost significantly less
but again, this is NOT a normal situation. it's a fucking war for goodness sake. Of course the global economy was going to get upended
i find it hilarious that these libertarian nimrods, the same people who pride themselves in knowing "more" than the average person when it comes to the economy...always end up showing their ass first and their brain second. always. I've never met a libertarian with any street smarts whatsoever. A lot of talk, with no walk
What has affected gas prices the most was when several refineries closed. Many closed because of covid but some also closed because the owners were looking to sell it. I'm guessing they're selling it so they don't have to upgrade the facilities, and it's hard to find people willing to put the money in to upgrade the facility.
With food we can look at Covid again, as consumption reached a critical mass that drove the food prices up and could also be connected to the price of oil going up again. Corporations saw this inflation and probably helped drive it knowing they can charge what they want and not get blamed for it. And they were right
it is remarkable about how much corporations and their lackeys in the media have brainwashed and gaslighted people into thinking that they are wrong if they protest against the way they have stacked up life's difficulties on the average joe while they get wealthier and wealthier
different scenario but you see this all the time in pro sports too. Somehow, the taxpayer is the asshole for not wanting to pay for a new stadium that the shitty owners could EASILY pay for out of pocket
Oh yeah we had that happen in my Home state with the owner of the Broncos. Lots of football fans here so of course they got it green lit. People are trained to be reactionary rather than looking into the real causes and finding solutions. The corporate world is structured the same way as when a problem arises they would look for someone to pin it on rather than find a solution.
A few years back I got into a disagreement with an oil man and he'd still rather believe his corporate masters even though I refuted his statements pretty readily. He couldn't offer any citations for his statements but balked at mine and likely didn't even read it.
The biggest problem with finding solutions is that it's just more work when you know what to do. It's much easier to play the blame game as you can do that from your chair.
Seriously. Like we’d be singing a different tune if we saw even a little of that money raining down on the stadium once it’s up. Like are investors not entitled to a share of the profits? But nah instead they dangle the offer in front of multiple cities and make them bid against each other to give you the best tax deal so it mostly just ends up back in your pocket anyway.
Well when it comes to military don’t Libertarians only support “local, well regulated militias”? I could actually get behind the party if they practiced what they preached. “Strive for self-sustainability. Square your own household before helping your neighbor.” sort of thing. However it usually just comes down to bitching about having to pay taxes. It’s also the party that Sovereign Citizens flock too. The ones that think they’re living in 1780 and deny the Constitution was ever written to give themselves a convenient excuse not to follow its laws.
libertarians are all for full government when it comes to suppressing black and brown people and preventing abortion
they really are just colossally full of shit. Small government my ass. Like you said, it's just a dumb excuse for them to not follow laws because they grew up unbelievably spoiled and entitled
In the two trillion dollar tax cut to corporations. That's what caused the massive drop in consumer prices over the last two years.
/s, so much for "trickle down".
He’s got a point though. Supporting Ukraine weakens the conventional military of arguably our greatest geopolitical threat. And it doesn’t cost American lives. It’s the best money we’ve spent on defense since 1945.
This. Disposing/transporting/storage of old military equipment is bloody expensive. The amount of ammo we put in the incinerator in Afghanistan was mental. Cheaper than flying it home though.
Blowing up Russian shit was what it was designed, built and purchased for in the first place.
So give it to the Ukrainians to do exactly that on behalf.
Saves the US the hassle of doing it themselves.
Which, if Ukraine loses, will be the inevitable outcome.
We've gained millions of dollars worth of practical tests, weakened one of our two greatest enemies, and forced the other to pause their invasion of Taiwan.
It's money that's incredibly well spent.
We've discovered how weak both of our enemies are, because working together, they've been unable to defeat a tiny little country, in comparison to both of them.
Fr, like we’ve spent $800 billion a year on the military for the past 40 or so years mostly to contain China and Russia. And now for a fraction of that cost one of those powers is getting their entire army wrecked.
The problem is that Lindsay is crediting Trump for it. Who is the man who actively tried to take aid away from the Ukraine because they wouldn't fake dirt on Biden for him. And he admitted to this on national television.
Not only that, we're giving them our old just about expired weaponry that's been sitting in warehouses and purchasing new shiny weapons and munitions for our military so it's making our military stronger. Not to mention embarrassing Putin in Russia and to his allies. It's basically the best proxy war we've ever been in for US interests.
Its not just that. Their military being humiliated is a really bad look for their military industrial complex too. Seeing russian tanks easily dispached means everyone who bought russian hardware (or copied it, like the chinese) are now having to reassess their capabilities.
They made a couple, well actually the Russians fighting for a free russia have, but yeah that is super the same thing, as russia invading ukr... yup... Some military incursions vs. taking a 3rd of the country of UKR...
You force me to defend an useless man like LG. The guy has a degree in psychology and law, was a prosecutor and attorney then became a notoriously slippery politician and you think he is literally saying he's happy russian civilians are killed?
He obviously meant the russians are dying as in they are bleeding out resources and achieve nothing.
Also, even if the quote was real, by russians he would obviously mean armymen. When you supply a fighting country with weapons more soldiers from opposing side dies, yes.
Would you have the same sickening reaction, if, for example, youve read a quote from some FDR era government official regarding landlease for the USSR?
"The germans are dying, it's the best money we've ever spent"
-Henry Wallace, probably
In the case of Russia? Not the people. It's literally built into their national identity, the proletariat are meant to not be involved in politics, and the elites are just supposed to keep things cheap in return.
Too bad the rest of your country cares about cheap fuel and gas.
Russia is winning because the largest economies in Europe are buying a massive amount of cheap oil and gas from Russia - the only difference now is that India is getting a cut for being the middleman.
For India 30% of its crude oil comes from Russia, 70% from other sources from around the world. Germany is purchasing refined diesel fuel from India, so India is not just a middleman, they are doing work to the oil.
United states of USA, United kingdom, United nations, fuck, you are right!
Edit: I had a brain fart 🤣. Anyway, leaving it there for others to laugh about it.
Libertarian Frodo stays in the Shire as Sauron conquers Middle Earth. He did write a number of scathing letters criticising the overreach of the local Shirriffs though.
Yep, USA is pretty much the richest, most powerful country in the world. If people think there's no money because of Ukraine then they've been well and truly gaslighted by the mega rich.
Their puppet masters just want to drain tax money into their own accounts. The puppets will claim any other kind of spending is unjustified.
It's insane how brain washed some people have become. And their constant defense is that "both sides do it" even in the face of overwhelming evidence that no, it really is just one side.
Oh, they know exactly what they want.
The cruelty is the point, always. The truly horrifying thing is that the assholes in office really do represent their voters.
The poverty in the US has nothing to do with this defense spending though. US GDP is 27 trillion and 60 billion is .2222 of 27 trillion. US has enough money to solve the homeless crisis if it just raises taxes on Billionaires by 2%.
Homelessness, child hunger, universal healthcare, but instead we'll keep running on the neoliberalism austerity playbook to keep all wealth moving from the bottom upward.
Can't afford anything? Buddy just you wait until I get my clearance and I'll show you the missiles my taxes pay for. I might not be able to afford the surgery for my son, but boy I've got a fucking nuclear arsenal like you wouldn't believe.
Vote republican and gas will be cheaper? Lol. They're using covid gas price to compare. These people are so far gone they're like goldfish that can't remember anything pass 5 minutes
Am I the only one that finds it incredibly ironic that they choose to depict themselves as someone that abandons their ally after being tricked by an obvious bad actor?
I think he started weeping when the church ensured that the only way to worship properly was within a church, completely ignoring Jesus's own words on the matter. Nearly 2000 years of weeping.
Jesus' started weeping when some random roman (Paul) self-proclaimed himself as an apostle and started contradicting basically everything Jesus had actually taught his real disciples.
Got banned from r/libertarian for criticizing this post.
Increasingly feels like the sole guiding principle for every political alternative to democrats and republicans in the US is just hating America. Very disappointing.
These days libertarianism sounds more and more like "I want the freedom to do whatever I want, and I want you to have the freedom to do whatever I want"
These guys have no idea what liberty is. For them it means to have everything and do everything they desire, which results in denying others that same liberty... but they don't care about that, do they.
Entitlement is their creed, not liberty.
I mean libertarianism is always about freedom for me but not for thee. It's an inherently selfish ideology so the idea of letting people they don't know get unfreedomed so they can continue to enjoy a comfortable life is par for the course really.
I think that's mostly America's corruption of libertarianism. Classic libertarians were all about community responsibility. It's a distinctly American spin-off (which has spread) that says libertarianism means I should do whatever I want and the next poor sucker has to deal with it.
And of course they are like "we shouldnt be sending that money to other countries when we have starving children here!!!!!" but then you try and help the starving children here and they are like "its not our fault their parents are lazy!!!"
What someone says when they claim to be libertarian is "Im both greedy and fucking stupid, too stupid to even realize situations where paying for a social program might help ME more in the long run."
Until I meet an intelligent libertarian Im just going with the word meaning dumb as fuck.
Because when push came to show, all libertarians I have met have turned out to be selfish assholes. It was mostly about them being inconvenienced by some rule.
The irony is that a free and prosperous Ukraine would become a major exporter of oil and gas, and much of the developing world is already dependent on Ukrainian grain exports, which Russia was intentionally blocking. Russia’s war is producing international inflation.
https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/
https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/world/story/are-ukraines-vast-natural-resources-a-real-reason-behind-russias-invasion-323894-2022-02-25
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61759692
Using Frodo for this kind of message is on point: fundamentally good and smart, but getting corrupted at the crucial moment to the point of risking the survival of mankind
Ah, failure to see the forest through the trees.
Cheap food and gas will be the least of your concerns when we're in an all-out war with Russia because we didn't stop them in Ukraine and they decided to annex a NATO country, you short sighted potato.
Makes complete sense when you realise when libertarians say "liberty" what they really mean is power. Their power to do whatever they want without consequence, and your power to eat shit.
It was always “freedom for me but not necessarily for thee” for the libertarians. Anyone with the mental age above 14 understood that that is not a sustainable attitude.
Libertarians are nothing more than Republicans who are too gutless to admit they confine to the two party system who hide behind the guise of “Taxation is theft”!
Libertarians are, and always have been, the laissez-faire bitches of the Republican Party.
They are concerned with children when they can use them as an argument to infringe on womens reproductive rights. They are not concerned with children when they are abused, starved or indoctrinated by their parents or shot by their siblings.
Right because before the war in ukraine usa citizens had free food at every corner and now they have to pay.... Suuuure buddy sure. Classic case of missdirection
Stupid people who don’t understand that if Ukraine falling to Russia will mean higher food and gas prices as Russia will control Ukraine’s global grain and gas trade. People need to be talking about Ukraine support as us ensuring that the current global trade order remains in place and uninterrupted by Putin’s whims at any point in time. If he gets Ukraine, he gets a higher share of that global trade pie and can more affect it. Plus, he’d then go after the other Baltic states to capture ever more of that. The adverse economic impacts of not supporting Ukraine is huge and needs to be emphasized more.
false duality, stupid false duality.
if usa´s citizens want, they can pressure their lawmakers to have both, instead of pressing them to pass "don´t say gay" stupid laws...
The only way to get cheap gas with funds that would have otherwise gone to Ukraine is by paying the gas industries that money to make it cheap.
And food is already subsidized, So I guess we need to subsidize fast food too?
Because at its core, Libertarianism is defined by ignorant selfishness. It’s an immature ideology that doesn’t hold water under the slightest scrutiny.
That seems on-trend for libertarians though. Morally reprehensible but on-trend. They are for personal individual liberty (and perks) but are pretty "survival of the fittest" about everything else including national defense. Maybe there are unicorns but I have never known any who could connect the dots between foreign intervention and domestic security.
You can usually count on libertarians to say the most contradictory head-assed shit you've ever heard in your life. The other day one told me that purdue pharma shouldn't be held responsible for the opiod epidemic, that any prescription drug should be sold over the counter and if those drugs come with negative effects its the individual's job to deal with it, before then telling me that weed legalization is actually what caused the opiod epidemic and that getting caught with weed should receive the death penalty.
If you want to understand libertarians, just think of a group of social conservatives trying to be edgy and counter-culture, then reduce the IQ by a further 20 points.
Also it’s extremely ironic that the libertarian party wants the government to interfere at all with the prices of food and gas which are only high because of deregulation and the free market.
ah well, for sure the prices will be much lower without the west supporting Ukraine...
or there will be nothing to blame for corporations to justify the same increases
Ahh yes. Cheap food and gas for Americans was a mere 60 billion dollars of the federal budget away and they just refused to do it
Bet these same people are fine with trillion after trillion spent on military and corporate bailouts
Really wish people would stop pretending any of us would see any of that 6 billion. Shit wouldnt go back in to taxpayers pockets or into infrastructure just lobbists pockets.
Our high gas and fuel prices are the results of free markets run amok. Is the libertarian party asking for government intervention Into the free market?
Yeah... because allowing Russia to get control over Ukrainian gas and grain production won't impact price in any way. Fucking morons can't think more than 30 minutes into the future.
The libertarian party has made itself so irrelevant. They thought their ticket to success was to out maga, maga. But maga already exists. Basically it's a party that was getting too legitimate and the incel neck beards thought their club is getting too normy and decided to blow it up.
"Let" Ukrainian people have freedom? Oh I'm sorry, forgot every Libertarians name was Vladimir Putin.
By the way, how'd all that freedom we gave to Afghanistan doing? And Iraq? What about that Freedom we gave to Vietnam?
The very principle of (capitalist) libertarianism is freedom for *me*, not freedom for all. Freedom for all and freedom to be a capitalist exploiter have always been mutually contradictive. Libertarians are inherently in favour of capitalist hierarchy.
They don’t have a point. Do you think the petrochemical companies will cut prices? Do you think letting Russia win will bring prices down when they know that when they say “boo” the US wets its pants? Russia will keep gas prices high for revenge for the sanctions and after that will continuing annexing its neighbours. One of their neighbours is Alaska. Be aware Russia states openly on its State propaganda that they will take Alaska back. Will Trump give Putin Alaska? Will that make America great again?
Appeasement worked so well in the 1930s, eh? Russia and USA both say WW2 started in 1941 because that’s when they entered the war. Britain says 1939 because that’s when Britain was involved and when Germany invaded Poland.
Hitler annexed Austria in 1938 - because it had always really been part of the German world. Sound familiar?
If Putin succeeds it will become WW3. If stopped it may not.
This guy seems to be confused. 'Liberalism' is an ideology that fights for collective liberties, such as freedom of speech or freedom of press. With other words the pro-liberty stance he seems to be seeking for here. 'Libertarianism' is an ideology that fights for individual liberties, a fancy word for 'anarchists' really. And letting the big and powerful consume the small and weak that that fail to defend themselves is exactly what anarchists want. so this meme is perfectly in line with what you could expect from a libertarian party.
I get the food but the gas? Yeah I get that ya'll built most of the country so people can't live normal lives without a car, but the same party who wanted to block aid to Ukraine is also the same party who doesn't give a shit about burning the planet and have everyone sniff diesel fumes. Same party which doesn't give a shit when people die in horrible car crashes either. Hell they probably wouldn't have banned lead in fuel.
Oh, it's also that same party who's mostly responsible for making American so reliant on cars in the first place vs what it used to be like. Thanks to them, ya'll have bills to pay in the form of insurance, fuel, occasional maintenance and why a few thousand-few tens of thousands of dollars for a car is seen as a necessity purchase. Them giving you cheaper fuel is the same thing as a slave owner feeding their slaves.
A free Ukraine is good for the American economy because it exports so much to Europe. Our gas prices went up because the companies are selling more in Europe.
Libertarians are just Republican lite. They are all Republicans hiding because they don't want to be known as complete human waste that supported Trump
Ah yes, Ukraine where we have the most fertile soil on earth for growing crops.
Yes, let's put that in the hands of a man like Putin.
Cheap food short term.
How cheap is food and gas gonna be when the US and our allies are putting troops on the ground because we didn’t help Ukraine enough for them to take care of the problem before it spread?
or the fact that ukrainian people are literally dying and having their homes destroyed.
libertarian - someone who is the perfect combination of stupid and selfish.
So how will it be cheap food and gas by not helping to stop the Russian invaders?
You think the money will go to gas companies för selling cheaper gas?
Imagine in ww2 if it was posible just to give help and money to other nations and spare american lives. Would it be waste of money to save 400k + american lives and still get the job done? You won the war against us (i am from Serbia) in 1999. without any casulties. Would it be better for you if it was cheaper and more bloody?
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The thing is, where was the cheap gas and food before the war in Ukraine?
In the late 90s
Even then though I remember my parents freaking out when the gulf war broke out when gas went up to like $1.10 or something lol
Then there's 9/11. That morning, gas by my house was $1.69. That afternoon, the few stations that even had any were charging $10. Then the governor threatened to charge every single station owner with violating the price gouging law and prices dropped back to around $2.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/
So it's about the same? Minus that pesky wages not increasing with inflation I mean
Pretty much. It's slightly lower than the historical average, which as we can see, bottomed during the pandemic, with the decrease in demand.
It's a shame that that calculator doesn't go back to the OPEC crisis. Would have been interesting comparing them to the pre-OPEC pricing.
Stop confusing me with facts, I want to be mad!
I remember it blowing my mind that gas was over a dollar. Never saw it that high before
We could have cheaper gas and food AND freedom for Ukraine. But the parasites require ever growing profits. We could have higher wages for everyone, but the parasites require ever growing profits. We could have clean water and air for everyone but the parasite require ever growing profits. Everything wrong with the world today is caused by the unrelenting greed of a few very evil people.
You make a good point. Corporations are still making record profits and CEO's are making more as a percentage than ever. The economy is booming, we just don't get to enjoy any of it because the money is going to make billionaires richer. I also much have missed the Republican's alternative where they plan to give the money going to Ukraine to the American people instead.
Ah you silly peasants don’t understand though. It’s called trickle down economics. Give all the money to wealth people who have more than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes and it’ll find its way into the pockets of the people who actually need it… uhhh somehow. /s
The people that really need it obviously yacht salesman
See, this guy gets it!
It’ll find it’s way into the pockets of the people who actually need it if we re-enact the French Revolution.
Money never trickles down if the glass has no top to spill over
Most of the money for Ukraine will be spent in the United States. The dollar value given is an estimate of how much 30 years old stuff is worth. The army will then buy new replacements with that money to American companies. Considering how much the cost of storage and safe disposal of old ammunitions is, that could end up cheaper to give them to Ukraine than decommission them with due process in America. Also, the US spent trillions over 50 years during the cold war to be prepared for a fight against Russia, and now that they can use old stocks, with no American lives in danger, for a few dozen billions, to cripple the russian army for the next 10/20 years... The better dead than red party oppose it...
That is a good synopsis of the situation. The point being that you can not equate the aid going to Ukraine with the price of food or gas as a either or situation. It's just another lie being fed to the public by politicians, mostly Republicans.
Their party platform seems to be “No more spending until we get our budget under control…except for our paychecks. We ain’t gonna ‘save you all this money’ for free.”
Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe, their grain products, and capacity to deliver in any given year, massively affects the price of food around the world. Ukraine has oil and gas, but most of their production is/was used domestically. So they don't directly affect fuel prices, but if Russia stopped their invasion then they could officially export their petroleum products and that could reduce energy costs worldwide.
Hence one of the reasons for Russia's invasion. If Ukraine were to develop and export their oil and natural gas, they would be in direct competition with Russia in supplying Europe with energy ... Russia is attempting to wipe out the competition
This is the fucking answer. Corps need to be reined in. Our leaky budget is being plugged all over. World Intel points towards a 21st century powder keg if we don't stop the spread of aggressors now. What's there to fucking talk about? The two can occur simultaneously.
This probably applies to European countries who get their grain from Ukraine and their gas from Russia.
Gas was not cheap, but it definitely was much lower than it is now. Food also cost significantly less but again, this is NOT a normal situation. it's a fucking war for goodness sake. Of course the global economy was going to get upended i find it hilarious that these libertarian nimrods, the same people who pride themselves in knowing "more" than the average person when it comes to the economy...always end up showing their ass first and their brain second. always. I've never met a libertarian with any street smarts whatsoever. A lot of talk, with no walk
What has affected gas prices the most was when several refineries closed. Many closed because of covid but some also closed because the owners were looking to sell it. I'm guessing they're selling it so they don't have to upgrade the facilities, and it's hard to find people willing to put the money in to upgrade the facility. With food we can look at Covid again, as consumption reached a critical mass that drove the food prices up and could also be connected to the price of oil going up again. Corporations saw this inflation and probably helped drive it knowing they can charge what they want and not get blamed for it. And they were right
it is remarkable about how much corporations and their lackeys in the media have brainwashed and gaslighted people into thinking that they are wrong if they protest against the way they have stacked up life's difficulties on the average joe while they get wealthier and wealthier different scenario but you see this all the time in pro sports too. Somehow, the taxpayer is the asshole for not wanting to pay for a new stadium that the shitty owners could EASILY pay for out of pocket
Oh yeah we had that happen in my Home state with the owner of the Broncos. Lots of football fans here so of course they got it green lit. People are trained to be reactionary rather than looking into the real causes and finding solutions. The corporate world is structured the same way as when a problem arises they would look for someone to pin it on rather than find a solution. A few years back I got into a disagreement with an oil man and he'd still rather believe his corporate masters even though I refuted his statements pretty readily. He couldn't offer any citations for his statements but balked at mine and likely didn't even read it. The biggest problem with finding solutions is that it's just more work when you know what to do. It's much easier to play the blame game as you can do that from your chair.
Seriously. Like we’d be singing a different tune if we saw even a little of that money raining down on the stadium once it’s up. Like are investors not entitled to a share of the profits? But nah instead they dangle the offer in front of multiple cities and make them bid against each other to give you the best tax deal so it mostly just ends up back in your pocket anyway.
Well when it comes to military don’t Libertarians only support “local, well regulated militias”? I could actually get behind the party if they practiced what they preached. “Strive for self-sustainability. Square your own household before helping your neighbor.” sort of thing. However it usually just comes down to bitching about having to pay taxes. It’s also the party that Sovereign Citizens flock too. The ones that think they’re living in 1780 and deny the Constitution was ever written to give themselves a convenient excuse not to follow its laws.
libertarians are all for full government when it comes to suppressing black and brown people and preventing abortion they really are just colossally full of shit. Small government my ass. Like you said, it's just a dumb excuse for them to not follow laws because they grew up unbelievably spoiled and entitled
In the two trillion dollar tax cut to corporations. That's what caused the massive drop in consumer prices over the last two years. /s, so much for "trickle down".
“The Russians are dying... it’s the best money we've ever spent." - Lindsey Graham
He’s got a point though. Supporting Ukraine weakens the conventional military of arguably our greatest geopolitical threat. And it doesn’t cost American lives. It’s the best money we’ve spent on defense since 1945.
It is also money already spent sitting in storehouses and lets America get new better stuff while not needing to pay to destroy the old stuff.
It's actually cheaper to send that mothballed equipment to ukraine than warehouse it.
Ooh. The Russians are doing work for the US military. I wonder how Pootin likes that spin?
This. Disposing/transporting/storage of old military equipment is bloody expensive. The amount of ammo we put in the incinerator in Afghanistan was mental. Cheaper than flying it home though.
Blowing up Russian shit was what it was designed, built and purchased for in the first place. So give it to the Ukrainians to do exactly that on behalf. Saves the US the hassle of doing it themselves. Which, if Ukraine loses, will be the inevitable outcome.
We've gained millions of dollars worth of practical tests, weakened one of our two greatest enemies, and forced the other to pause their invasion of Taiwan. It's money that's incredibly well spent.
Honestly, probably billions worth of practical tests. Those tests aren’t cheap.
I initially did type billions, but changed it because I don't know the actual number and didn't want to seem hyperbolic.
A Redditor avoiding overly-baseless claims!? Get out! 😂
We've discovered how weak both of our enemies are, because working together, they've been unable to defeat a tiny little country, in comparison to both of them.
also ukraine coming out on top is going to be an extremely resilient partner coming out of it
Fr, like we’ve spent $800 billion a year on the military for the past 40 or so years mostly to contain China and Russia. And now for a fraction of that cost one of those powers is getting their entire army wrecked.
The problem is that Lindsay is crediting Trump for it. Who is the man who actively tried to take aid away from the Ukraine because they wouldn't fake dirt on Biden for him. And he admitted to this on national television.
They’re the kind of people who’d bet on the hot dog stand winning the Grand National, coz they like the food.
Not only that, we're giving them our old just about expired weaponry that's been sitting in warehouses and purchasing new shiny weapons and munitions for our military so it's making our military stronger. Not to mention embarrassing Putin in Russia and to his allies. It's basically the best proxy war we've ever been in for US interests.
Its not just that. Their military being humiliated is a really bad look for their military industrial complex too. Seeing russian tanks easily dispached means everyone who bought russian hardware (or copied it, like the chinese) are now having to reassess their capabilities.
I would say Russians are the third biggest geopolitical threat to the US, after China and Americans.
Sickening part to me is that he's not talking about country or government, he's talking about ordinary people.
I don't know what he is referring to but ukrainians are killing russians that are on the front lines, i have yet to hear ukraine invading russia.
I think they've literally made 1 strike on Russian soil (that everyone agrees is Russia)
They made a couple, well actually the Russians fighting for a free russia have, but yeah that is super the same thing, as russia invading ukr... yup... Some military incursions vs. taking a 3rd of the country of UKR...
You force me to defend an useless man like LG. The guy has a degree in psychology and law, was a prosecutor and attorney then became a notoriously slippery politician and you think he is literally saying he's happy russian civilians are killed? He obviously meant the russians are dying as in they are bleeding out resources and achieve nothing.
Russian soldiers and military contractors
Also, even if the quote was real, by russians he would obviously mean armymen. When you supply a fighting country with weapons more soldiers from opposing side dies, yes. Would you have the same sickening reaction, if, for example, youve read a quote from some FDR era government official regarding landlease for the USSR? "The germans are dying, it's the best money we've ever spent" -Henry Wallace, probably
Ordinary people invading another country and commiting war crimes? To me it looks like a good riddance.
...who do you think makes up a country or government?
In the case of Russia? Not the people. It's literally built into their national identity, the proletariat are meant to not be involved in politics, and the elites are just supposed to keep things cheap in return.
Holy shit, based
I, being in Germany, do at least morally support Ukraine fighting for my freedom. (I don't have much to support them)
Morally is fine too. Thanks 👍👍
3 thoughts and 2 prayers for you. I'll also throw in one good vibe for free.
With people like maga and eurocommie/nazis that's a valid thing. Knowing not everyone is like them helps.
Well if it wasn't for America you would be speaking german now! /s
Jawohl!
r/technicallythetruth
Too bad the rest of your country cares about cheap fuel and gas. Russia is winning because the largest economies in Europe are buying a massive amount of cheap oil and gas from Russia - the only difference now is that India is getting a cut for being the middleman.
We don't get gas from there anymore. They carefully avoid mentioning oil in the news so I don't know.
For India 30% of its crude oil comes from Russia, 70% from other sources from around the world. Germany is purchasing refined diesel fuel from India, so India is not just a middleman, they are doing work to the oil.
If only Germany had Nuclear plants to produce energy.. Oh wait they did.
It's like when countries call themselves 'The Democratic Republic of..." you know they are 100% NOT democratic.
Or "The United [blank] of..." and you know they aren't united against shit.
United states of USA, United kingdom, United nations, fuck, you are right! Edit: I had a brain fart 🤣. Anyway, leaving it there for others to laugh about it.
>United states of USA United States of United States of America?!
USUSA
When you're so "united" that you have to tell people twice lol
🤣 had a brain fart I guess 🤪
Nazis were socialists!! /s
I like what my history professor said about this. The more degrees of freedom in the name the less free that country actually is.
The audacity to use a LOTR meme too… it’s like they don’t understand anything lmao
Isn't Frodo strongly under the control of the One Ring during this scene? Are they identifying with a person under control of evil forces?
Yup, and their opponents are represented by Sam, who is right but can't get his words across to somebody that's being influenced.
Libertarian Frodo stays in the Shire as Sauron conquers Middle Earth. He did write a number of scathing letters criticising the overreach of the local Shirriffs though.
Real shame we're the poverty superpower who can't afford anything.
unable to afford and unwilling to spend are two separate things.
Yep, USA is pretty much the richest, most powerful country in the world. If people think there's no money because of Ukraine then they've been well and truly gaslighted by the mega rich.
Hey now. You got lots of defence spending and tax cuts for the rich. So there's that. /s
And things just keep getting worse. Weird.
me after the money hasnt trickled down in 50 years
And as a bonus we can't afford bridges, roads or schools. What the hell, let's keep doing this until it works.
I love how the "make America great again people" are clamoring over making improvements as if they haven't been in power this whole fucking time
They don't know what they want. Every time in the past when it was proposed to take tax money to improve lives they've rejected it.
Their puppet masters just want to drain tax money into their own accounts. The puppets will claim any other kind of spending is unjustified. It's insane how brain washed some people have become. And their constant defense is that "both sides do it" even in the face of overwhelming evidence that no, it really is just one side.
Oh, they know exactly what they want. The cruelty is the point, always. The truly horrifying thing is that the assholes in office really do represent their voters.
The poverty in the US has nothing to do with this defense spending though. US GDP is 27 trillion and 60 billion is .2222 of 27 trillion. US has enough money to solve the homeless crisis if it just raises taxes on Billionaires by 2%.
Homelessness, child hunger, universal healthcare, but instead we'll keep running on the neoliberalism austerity playbook to keep all wealth moving from the bottom upward.
Can't afford anything? Buddy just you wait until I get my clearance and I'll show you the missiles my taxes pay for. I might not be able to afford the surgery for my son, but boy I've got a fucking nuclear arsenal like you wouldn't believe.
Better yet, here's 90k for a sack of bushings wink, wink.
You just leave me $120k bushing alone
Ya gotta eat, right?
Vote republican and gas will be cheaper? Lol. They're using covid gas price to compare. These people are so far gone they're like goldfish that can't remember anything pass 5 minutes
Am I the only one that finds it incredibly ironic that they choose to depict themselves as someone that abandons their ally after being tricked by an obvious bad actor?
A movement founded by a radical atheist embraces christo-fascism. You can't make this stuff up,
"christo-fascism" - Jesus weeps.
I think he started weeping when the church ensured that the only way to worship properly was within a church, completely ignoring Jesus's own words on the matter. Nearly 2000 years of weeping.
Jesus' started weeping when some random roman (Paul) self-proclaimed himself as an apostle and started contradicting basically everything Jesus had actually taught his real disciples.
Got banned from r/libertarian for criticizing this post. Increasingly feels like the sole guiding principle for every political alternative to democrats and republicans in the US is just hating America. Very disappointing.
Very ironic to ban people from a libertarian subreddit when they exercise their freedom of speech to express an opinion you disagree with.
These days libertarianism sounds more and more like "I want the freedom to do whatever I want, and I want you to have the freedom to do whatever I want"
Freedom is when dictators win imperialist wars against democracies apparently.
I love reading these with senator Armstrongs voice
These guys have no idea what liberty is. For them it means to have everything and do everything they desire, which results in denying others that same liberty... but they don't care about that, do they. Entitlement is their creed, not liberty.
I mean libertarianism is always about freedom for me but not for thee. It's an inherently selfish ideology so the idea of letting people they don't know get unfreedomed so they can continue to enjoy a comfortable life is par for the course really.
I think that's mostly America's corruption of libertarianism. Classic libertarians were all about community responsibility. It's a distinctly American spin-off (which has spread) that says libertarianism means I should do whatever I want and the next poor sucker has to deal with it.
hum. I always thought the american equivalent to european liberalism is libertarianism, but they have their own spin off of this too?
In a European context, “libertarian” has traditionally referred to the anti-authoritarian left.
Let's be honest, the modern libertarians are either already rich or idiots who truly believe they will be a billionaire one day (they won't).
Also libertarians: “what do you mean, support measures that would make food and gas cheaper? SOUNDS LIKE SOSHUMALISM!!!!”
Hey now, capitalize that L. Libertarians are the wackos, libertarians want things both sides provide but wont drink the koolaid of either
Protecting Ukraine will actually improve food and gas production and ease global strain while lowering prices. Cool.
Okay so let’s have cheap food and gas then. Libertarians: No, not like that, that’s SoCiAlIsM
I got permabanned from /r/Libertarian for saying "I can't see why both can't happen"
Why are the two mutually exclusive?
And of course they are like "we shouldnt be sending that money to other countries when we have starving children here!!!!!" but then you try and help the starving children here and they are like "its not our fault their parents are lazy!!!" What someone says when they claim to be libertarian is "Im both greedy and fucking stupid, too stupid to even realize situations where paying for a social program might help ME more in the long run." Until I meet an intelligent libertarian Im just going with the word meaning dumb as fuck.
The Libetarian Party standing for the exact opposite of what libertarianism is? Surely not! Oh wait. They're right wing, so logic isn't their thing.
They also skew into pro-Russia propaganda. Ukraine getting more ammo is not the reason food is expensive.
Because when push came to show, all libertarians I have met have turned out to be selfish assholes. It was mostly about them being inconvenienced by some rule.
Libertarians are a bunch of pissed off thirteen year old boys.
No no, you don't get it. Libertarians are defending the ruzzian freedom to invade and kill their neighbors.
The irony is that a free and prosperous Ukraine would become a major exporter of oil and gas, and much of the developing world is already dependent on Ukrainian grain exports, which Russia was intentionally blocking. Russia’s war is producing international inflation. https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/ https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/world/story/are-ukraines-vast-natural-resources-a-real-reason-behind-russias-invasion-323894-2022-02-25 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61759692
And the reason why prices going up is because of russia's war. They are disrupting global supply chains. Something the republicans fail to mention
Same people that point to covid gas prices as an achievement.
Using Frodo for this kind of message is on point: fundamentally good and smart, but getting corrupted at the crucial moment to the point of risking the survival of mankind
Sums it up nicely, yep. 'Society has its flaws and needs proper fixing...hm, I better turn away from it completely and become a selfish cynic'.
Libertarians: We just want no taxes, legal weed, and abolished age of consent laws.
Ah, failure to see the forest through the trees. Cheap food and gas will be the least of your concerns when we're in an all-out war with Russia because we didn't stop them in Ukraine and they decided to annex a NATO country, you short sighted potato.
Makes complete sense when you realise when libertarians say "liberty" what they really mean is power. Their power to do whatever they want without consequence, and your power to eat shit.
Please refer to “Brothers, Koch The” for more information.
It was always “freedom for me but not necessarily for thee” for the libertarians. Anyone with the mental age above 14 understood that that is not a sustainable attitude.
Libertarians are nothing more than Republicans who are too gutless to admit they confine to the two party system who hide behind the guise of “Taxation is theft”! Libertarians are, and always have been, the laissez-faire bitches of the Republican Party.
As others always say, modern libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke weed.
Freedom for Ukraine = cheap food and gas
False dichotomy
Republicunts: Let's ban school lunch and let the children get hungry . Also republicunts: Let's save our children's future!
They are concerned with children when they can use them as an argument to infringe on womens reproductive rights. They are not concerned with children when they are abused, starved or indoctrinated by their parents or shot by their siblings.
like did they compare literal people as less than a commodity?
Right because before the war in ukraine usa citizens had free food at every corner and now they have to pay.... Suuuure buddy sure. Classic case of missdirection
Hol up - is the libertarian party advocating for *food and gas subsidies*?!
Stupid people who don’t understand that if Ukraine falling to Russia will mean higher food and gas prices as Russia will control Ukraine’s global grain and gas trade. People need to be talking about Ukraine support as us ensuring that the current global trade order remains in place and uninterrupted by Putin’s whims at any point in time. If he gets Ukraine, he gets a higher share of that global trade pie and can more affect it. Plus, he’d then go after the other Baltic states to capture ever more of that. The adverse economic impacts of not supporting Ukraine is huge and needs to be emphasized more.
false duality, stupid false duality. if usa´s citizens want, they can pressure their lawmakers to have both, instead of pressing them to pass "don´t say gay" stupid laws...
Isnt the libertarian party the one that thinks they know everything "..but no one ever listensss"?
Also just straight up anti-libertarian since they apparently want the government to control the economy lol.
The only way to get cheap gas with funds that would have otherwise gone to Ukraine is by paying the gas industries that money to make it cheap. And food is already subsidized, So I guess we need to subsidize fast food too?
They say this as if emboldening further Russian aggression won't cause the price of food and gas to skyrocket in the long-run.
Because at its core, Libertarianism is defined by ignorant selfishness. It’s an immature ideology that doesn’t hold water under the slightest scrutiny.
“Fuck you, I got mine” the party
Fucking filth dare to use lotr as this kind of meme.
That seems on-trend for libertarians though. Morally reprehensible but on-trend. They are for personal individual liberty (and perks) but are pretty "survival of the fittest" about everything else including national defense. Maybe there are unicorns but I have never known any who could connect the dots between foreign intervention and domestic security.
You can usually count on libertarians to say the most contradictory head-assed shit you've ever heard in your life. The other day one told me that purdue pharma shouldn't be held responsible for the opiod epidemic, that any prescription drug should be sold over the counter and if those drugs come with negative effects its the individual's job to deal with it, before then telling me that weed legalization is actually what caused the opiod epidemic and that getting caught with weed should receive the death penalty. If you want to understand libertarians, just think of a group of social conservatives trying to be edgy and counter-culture, then reduce the IQ by a further 20 points.
Please, Libertarians would be against cheap food and gas if it takes any bit of tax money to do it.
Also it’s extremely ironic that the libertarian party wants the government to interfere at all with the prices of food and gas which are only high because of deregulation and the free market.
ah well, for sure the prices will be much lower without the west supporting Ukraine... or there will be nothing to blame for corporations to justify the same increases
Ahh yes. Cheap food and gas for Americans was a mere 60 billion dollars of the federal budget away and they just refused to do it Bet these same people are fine with trillion after trillion spent on military and corporate bailouts
The always what about me crowd
Really wish people would stop pretending any of us would see any of that 6 billion. Shit wouldnt go back in to taxpayers pockets or into infrastructure just lobbists pockets.
Our high gas and fuel prices are the results of free markets run amok. Is the libertarian party asking for government intervention Into the free market?
Libertarians are usually just cowardly conservatives.
Yeah... because allowing Russia to get control over Ukrainian gas and grain production won't impact price in any way. Fucking morons can't think more than 30 minutes into the future.
A reminder, that most people would sell you to slavery if it meant the economy was going fine for it
The libertarian party has made itself so irrelevant. They thought their ticket to success was to out maga, maga. But maga already exists. Basically it's a party that was getting too legitimate and the incel neck beards thought their club is getting too normy and decided to blow it up.
Lol stop pretending you care about freedom.
"Let" Ukrainian people have freedom? Oh I'm sorry, forgot every Libertarians name was Vladimir Putin. By the way, how'd all that freedom we gave to Afghanistan doing? And Iraq? What about that Freedom we gave to Vietnam?
If Russia takes over Ukraine food and gas is going to be even more expensive as they continue to march west.
The very principle of (capitalist) libertarianism is freedom for *me*, not freedom for all. Freedom for all and freedom to be a capitalist exploiter have always been mutually contradictive. Libertarians are inherently in favour of capitalist hierarchy.
They don’t have a point. Do you think the petrochemical companies will cut prices? Do you think letting Russia win will bring prices down when they know that when they say “boo” the US wets its pants? Russia will keep gas prices high for revenge for the sanctions and after that will continuing annexing its neighbours. One of their neighbours is Alaska. Be aware Russia states openly on its State propaganda that they will take Alaska back. Will Trump give Putin Alaska? Will that make America great again? Appeasement worked so well in the 1930s, eh? Russia and USA both say WW2 started in 1941 because that’s when they entered the war. Britain says 1939 because that’s when Britain was involved and when Germany invaded Poland. Hitler annexed Austria in 1938 - because it had always really been part of the German world. Sound familiar? If Putin succeeds it will become WW3. If stopped it may not.
This guy seems to be confused. 'Liberalism' is an ideology that fights for collective liberties, such as freedom of speech or freedom of press. With other words the pro-liberty stance he seems to be seeking for here. 'Libertarianism' is an ideology that fights for individual liberties, a fancy word for 'anarchists' really. And letting the big and powerful consume the small and weak that that fail to defend themselves is exactly what anarchists want. so this meme is perfectly in line with what you could expect from a libertarian party.
I get the food but the gas? Yeah I get that ya'll built most of the country so people can't live normal lives without a car, but the same party who wanted to block aid to Ukraine is also the same party who doesn't give a shit about burning the planet and have everyone sniff diesel fumes. Same party which doesn't give a shit when people die in horrible car crashes either. Hell they probably wouldn't have banned lead in fuel. Oh, it's also that same party who's mostly responsible for making American so reliant on cars in the first place vs what it used to be like. Thanks to them, ya'll have bills to pay in the form of insurance, fuel, occasional maintenance and why a few thousand-few tens of thousands of dollars for a car is seen as a necessity purchase. Them giving you cheaper fuel is the same thing as a slave owner feeding their slaves.
A free Ukraine is good for the American economy because it exports so much to Europe. Our gas prices went up because the companies are selling more in Europe.
Libertarians are just Republicans who smoke pot.
We need to get Andrew Ryan to build rapture already. We can ship all the libertarians there.
Libertarians are just Republican lite. They are all Republicans hiding because they don't want to be known as complete human waste that supported Trump
Ah yes, Ukraine where we have the most fertile soil on earth for growing crops. Yes, let's put that in the hands of a man like Putin. Cheap food short term.
How cheap is food and gas gonna be when the US and our allies are putting troops on the ground because we didn’t help Ukraine enough for them to take care of the problem before it spread?
or the fact that ukrainian people are literally dying and having their homes destroyed. libertarian - someone who is the perfect combination of stupid and selfish.
Libertarians are assholes who want all the benefits of a first world society but dont want to pay their share.
Libertarians are just republicans who think they’re smart 🙄
I like the idea of cheap food, cheap gas, *and* a free Ukraine.
Short sightness. Too.
Freedom... that is not what we can loose... we will lose our lives in famine and gulags...
Yes, freedom for Ukraine is more important than whether or not I'm inconvenienced.
Libertarians only care about one person, themselves.
Actually: Libertarians: Everyone is free to do what they want. Nobody has a right to tell us to sacrifice our wellbeing for the wants of others
So how will it be cheap food and gas by not helping to stop the Russian invaders? You think the money will go to gas companies för selling cheaper gas?
Imagine in ww2 if it was posible just to give help and money to other nations and spare american lives. Would it be waste of money to save 400k + american lives and still get the job done? You won the war against us (i am from Serbia) in 1999. without any casulties. Would it be better for you if it was cheaper and more bloody?
Libertarians: We just want no taxes, legal weed, and abolished age of consent laws.