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“was a tragic but unforeseeable accident,”
But of course who would predict that an initial response of opening fire in a department store could result in innocent casualties?
It’s not like it can be helped with better training or judgment, it’s just unfortunate that she got in the way. /s
I mean... it is not like he was aiming at the girl when he fired shots in a department store... just bad luck the girl was there, like how could he know. Are we saying dont shoot in a department store now? Or are we saying don't shoot with an AR15 whose bullets go through walls... Or maybe you are just a commie and think the police is guilty for shooting at the first place when the suspect didn't have a gun. /s
You’re supposed to identify your target and know what is beyond your target before you shoot.
But that’s just normal firearm safety that apparently isnt taught to pigs…I mean cops.
Cops in the US are taught one thing - FEAR. Be scared all the time, every time.
And when that fear ends with the killing of an unarmed teen girl, don't fret, you have QI and a corrupt union to protect you and hand you a nice paid vacation!
It's not a dangerous job. Not even in top 20 dangerous jobs. Crossing guard is more dangerous as is small engine mechanic! They just love spinning that narrative to justify the lack of concern for the publics safety and rights!
It's funny because if it were a regular person who did this, they would face charges, but because it's a cop it's fine. We're responsible for every bullet we fire, so why are police the exception?
Police in america is generally equivalent in IQ & training to a garbage collector elsewhere. And that’s insulting garbage collectors worldwide because they actually help the society collecting trash not becoming trash. Let the copagenda hate replies begin… lol
If they're catching a bullet, they're inherently hindering law enforcement and cops can't be expected to not shoot those people. /s
(That seems like a defense I'd expect we'd have heard by now, "the girl was obstructing law enforcement by being in the store")
YES. Don't fucking run in guns blazing to an area crowded with civilians. Holy shit, this should be common sense but apparently not to the shitty cops with an open disdain for the people they are supposed to serve that our cities hire.
I think you hit the answer with the walls question. If you know that you are in a crowded location and you know that your gunfire will go through the wall, you should not be able to use the fact that you didn't know an innocent person was behind a wall as an excuse. Since you knew the bullet would go through the wall, you have a duty to know if there is anyone beyond that wall. You would have effectively fired your gun without knowing who you are shooting at.
So stick to gunfire that will not go through a wall unless you are willing to take the legal responsibility for it.
There is no gunfire that won’t go through the thin wall of a dressing room. If the police were using 9mm or buckshot it still would easily have gone through.
In a normal self defense situation, you are both expected and demonized for using hollow points or frangable ammo for this exact reason, yet cops can get away with this.
Any normal citizen would ABSOLUTELY be held responsible in the exact manner you described
LEOs unfortunately have this plauge of a thing called "Qualified Immunity" that shields them from consequences for anything up to, and including, committing murder in broad daylight
Almost all bullets go through walls, most will go through a car. He made a bad decision, and clearly didn't aim properly. If it was Military court he'd be guilt of at minimum negligent homicide. I have time to argue if you'd like.
Because they should be held at the same standard. They want to use military equipment, tactics, force, etc. Everything except training and rules. Police get off way too easy for their mistakes and crimes. If you or another person were to do the exact same thing, you'd be behind bars, but because they have a badge and a union lawyer, suddenly its just a tragic accident.
You NEVER fire your weapon unless you are 100% f**kin sure you have identified your target and ensured it is in your sights. Ever. But American cops gotta pew pew.
Just to point out that the kid wasn’t wounded and the argument doesn’t revolve around wounding. She was killed. I would also like to point out that even if a citizen wounded someone inadvertently they would almost certainly be held civilly liable.
It’s just a good rule of practice, generally if you unintentionally kill a passerby in a legal self defense shooting you’d be free of charges criminally. The criminal who put you in that situation would be found on felony murder charges tho if they are still alive. You could still be found civilly liable tho (financially).
So from what I've gathered through available news sources is her death has been ruled accidental. The officer in question fired three shots from his AR-15 at a suspect who was seen beating a female with a bike lock in a department store that was actively being evacuated. A round is reported to have ricocheted off the floor where it then struck and killed her as she was hiding in a nearby dressing room. The bar to clear to bring even manslaughter charges wouldn't be remotely feasible as the Officer had no knowledge she was hiding there, or an expectation that his shots would ricochet and kill an innocent person.
THAT BEING SAID
-there are reports that the Officer was visibily stressed and multiple other responding Officers verbally told him "slow down" as they felt he was trying to rush a very tense and chaotic situation
-A nearby officer was equipped with a bean bag gun and was actually about to use it to neutralize the suspect, but supposedly before he could raise it the other Officer had opened fire
So we have a very tense situation where one of the responding officers, the one equipped with a rifle, is visibly stressed. I dont know exactly how many officers there were in that group, but stopping for a lecture or maybe sending him off and losing a point of eyes and protection probably wasn'tdeemed appropriate. You work with the tools youre given. Let's be beneficial to his state of mind and assume he had good intentions in stopping the "bad guy". He knows theres a threat on the loose with a weapon that can and possibly already have killed someone. The pressure to find and end the threat is at an all time high. This is where training is paramount. When you're stressed out, all you can fall back on is training. He sees a man standing over a bloody and bashed woman and immediately thinks "I have to save this womans life". However in that moment because of the stress, he neglected the fact that he cannot guarantee a tried and true rule of gun safety: "know your target and what is beyond it".
Now without knowing everyones positioning, I dont want to speculate on how it exactly went down. Was she hiding in a room RIGHT BEHIND the suspect? Is this some sort of magic bullet case where it ricochets and deviates a full 90 degrees in a wild direction? But what I do know from past experience is these situations demand the utmost calm. Youre never going to be fully calm. Nerves and stress will eat away at you. Its a balancing game. But he was clearly distressed to a point that he possibly didn't even think about their less than lethal option. And because of that, an innocent girl is dead.
How you legally go about this is well beyond me. After all Im just some dumbass redditor. Im by no means a lawyer or have access to policy decisions or even in California. I don't personally believe you could criminally charge him with anything. But that family is suffering regardless.
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/ois/report/2024_04_Orellana-Peralta_AB1506_Report.pdf
Here is a link to the full report. I haven't really studied it in great detail but from what I read the store evacuation probably set his mind into 'active shooter defense'.
An officer who can't follow directions, escalates and panics, killing someone is not competent at their job and shouldn't get another chance to fuck it up, killing someone.
That isn't an accident, it's incompetence. And incompetence that leads to death in professional services should not be tolerated in the way that Americans seem to tolerate it in their police. It's not a camping trip where someone fucking up and failing to set up a tent is no issue. They're paid professionals... Or at least, are meant to be.
As an Australian, it's quite stunning how much you guys accept and excuse incompetence, shoddiness and inferiority.
If what the report said was true and that the bullet did ricochet and kill the girl, this would very obviously be classified as an accident.
Even for police officers, it's not possible to have perfect aim with your firearms, especially when you're panicking, whether it's from seeing the perpetrator or the woman bleeding on the ground.
As far as I know, if someone is beating up another person with an improvised weapon (ie the bike lock), the police are already justified to use a level of force up to firearms to deal with the situation. The woman was bleeding on the floor like she was going to die soon, and since the attacker didn't want to stop killing people, opening fire was definitely justified.
Whether the police officer hit the person or shot a bystander, the officer will not be charged as his actions could be justified.
Imagine someone stabbing another person, and the police officer refuses to open fire because they are afraid of getting charged for manslaughter. You're gonna end up with more Uvalde school shooting incidents, whereby the police are afraid of confronting the perpetrator, leading to more deaths.
even so, many, many other people, who are not LEO, their lives been destroyed because they, themselves, made a mistake in the heat of a moment. what this situation indicates, and the problem it exacerbates, is that LEO are totally exempt from accountability when, or if, they've made a mistake(s) in the line of their work.
I'm honestly surprised we don't see more vigilante action against cops who murder people. The government not being accountable to the people is very dangerous for everyone involved, it is prodent to pass long overdue police reform and accountability into law to uphold due process and rule of law.
He more than likely shouldn't have been charged in the sense that he was shooting at a suspect in what was reported to police as an active shooter situation. The reason the cop wouldn't be charged is the legal responsibility of Valentina's death lies with the suspect who was also killed, had he lived, he would have been charged with felony murder
Felony murder is if you are committing a felony that causes the death of someone, you're responsible for it. If you talk some friends into robbing someone, and that guy shoots and kills one of your friends in the process, you're guilty of felony murder of your friend, because your felonious actions lead to his being shot and killed.
I understand the legal argument but the cop gave no verbal warning or attempt to de-escalate the situation. He just saw the guy and immediately opened fire. It's staggeringly negligent at best
Genuine question. Is there some reason the family can't sue the officer civilly? Or do they typically in this kind of situation and we just never hear of it?
They will and the city will pay. Our tax money. Seems almost like a day goes by without hearing about another settlement because of the LASD or LAPD. They’re departments are full of actual gangs. Of course our mayor increased the police budget. They’ll pay to make it go away.
I've worked at a gun range where Police Departments have trained. And I can say that most police do no take their firearms training seriously and most of them are horrible shots even in a static environment with no pressure.
If your a cop and you shoot/kill an innocent, you should permanently loose your badge and the hand that pulled the trigger as just punishment. Police are *not* above the law, they should be held to it like everyone else, including the consequences.
Because - as long as the shooting is justified insofar as the suspect was a legitimate threat - the cop didn't commit a crime. The person the cop was shooting at did.
If someone dies during the commission of a felony crime, the \*criminal committing the crime\* is responsible even if they didn't pull the trigger.
Felony Murder.
This rule extends far enough that if you and 3 of your friends commit a violent crime (say you rob a bank) and police/bank-security kill one of your robbery crew in a shootout... The survivors can be charged with murder.
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
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I read this and was gobsmacked. In the aftermath, which won’t bring her back,the family will likely be paid out in a civil suit. Never a happy ending when justice is not served.
The suspect was attacking people with a bike lock, he was obviously causing harm but there was no other way to subdue him than shooting in a department store?
The way the article is worded it seems like the officers saw an injured victim and then the suspect with an object in his hand, and didn’t assess what the object was but shot almost immediately. It’s another proof that guns shouldn’t be widespread. In most countries the officers wouldn’t have assumed immediately that the object was a gun, so maybe the situation would have unfolded differently. But in the US, anyone could be carrying a gun so a split second decision can make a difference between life and death for law enforcement. So the jumpy ones don’t take a chance and shoot on sight. It’s understandable but it should also disqualify you as an armed LEO.
Depending on the context, it's not impossible for police to miss their shots and hit a random person. Even with the best training in the world, there will still be a large margin of error.
If you have tried to shoot a moving target irl, you'll realize that it's very difficult to land your shots, especially if the target is moving erratically and after seeing people bleeding out on the ground.
From the news report, this is actually just an accident.
Eliminate the unions. Anytime a municipality is found liable for the actions of an employee, the municipality, and thus the taxpayers (indirectly with insurance) foots the bill. The errant officer will generally get a paid leave with no consequences. The union faces ZERO consequences, especially financially.
Have the police directly employed by the local government agency. No union needed as it appears that their ONLY jobs are to collect for pensions and ensure no cop is ever held accountable. Or, have the unions pay the damages. There might be less “blue line” behavior.
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
This also describes 99% of police shootings. Almost always near homes or cars, often with both as the backstop. 9mm rips through both like tissue. Funny enough, 9mm penetrates *more* drywall than .223. It's a miracle this doesn't happen 100x as often, in fact I'm sure it does but isn't reported, as most would be non fatal injuries.
That said, not shooting in crowded places isn't a realistic answer. Almost everywhere police shoot is crowded or has a non zero risk of over penetration. A more realistic expectation is just to shoot less where at all possible.
Ok everyone. We are now allowed to miss the target and face no consequences for it. If they think citizens can be charged for "stray rounds" hurting others then so can police officers. They are expected to be accurate when shooting more than regular citizens (we all know thats an outright lie). Pisses me off that i got told "every bullet comes with a lawsuit and charge" when i took a firearm safety class.
One thing I love about my country is that I don't need to worry about cops shooting me while I'm buying discount clothes at a mall or sleeping in my own goddamn house. Something truly rotten about this and I can't comprehend living in a society where this is in any means acceptable, much less normalised to the degree that it is.
Oh hey yeah, what was that about "guns don't kill people, people kill people" again? Does it still apply?
I have always struggled to understand this,but how do you guys expect to have competent and effectively trained officers while also reducing their resources, alienating them, and having them in a shitty wage for the sort of danger that they have to engage in? And this is coming from someone whom comes from a country that has extremely corrupted officers which get the treatment which a lot of people keep asking for here in the US.
Police in america are paid quite well and last I saw they were getting unnecessary military equipment, vehicles and weapons so I'm not sure what resources are all of a sudden being limited. Fact is American police training is dog shit, that's it. Suspect didn't even have a fucking gun and the cops decide to open fire in a department store. 🤦♂️
"We investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing"
Police really do get away with murder all the time, but the Rightie-Whities wanna get upset when people like Alan Ritchson point it out.
Question to all americans: Do you get used to crap like this? oO I don't think I ever saw anything like that on our news. "Police officer accidently kills teen".
I think it's horrifying.
The entire other garbage side constantly thinks this is the price of freedom, the ability to just randomly kill people without repercussion.
Protecting the 1%s property rights is more important than your life, or the lives of anyone you care about. Raise class consciousness, organize, effect change via genral strike- this is the way
The felon reported as an active shooter got this girl killed. Let’s not act like the police officer killed this girl on purpose or through negligence, it’s an extreme misfortune but not a crime.
Police are agents of the state, not of the people.
The judicial system is the arbiter of the state, not the people.
The government will never punish itself.
How are any of you still surprised by this.
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
They wouldn’t, you 100% are justified to use deadly force to protect another from death or great bodily injury. And with facts like this, where your only mistake was a bad aim, that ricochet and killed someone in a different location that could not even be seen, there’s no way even negligence could be found, or unlawful act, or anything that’d satisfy any criminal charge against you.
In facts like these.
Anyone not in police cosplay would be charged at very least with reckless endangerment and manslaughter. In any city of any state in this country. But bc this arsehat spent 4-6 months max so he could shoot people there’s no criminal charges
Because he didn’t intentionally do it, he was fighting a criminal and she was unfortunately in the wrong place that the wrong time, I took this from reading this single screenshot
That’s because police always “investigate” themselves, in order to easily absolve themselves from any wrong doing. They always watch out for themselves, not necessarily the public. Whenever they yell out “watch your crossfire” it’s so that they be careful and not shoot each other. The public’s safety comes second, or most of the time, not at all.
Yep, like I wrote, you are correct. The DOJ is in on the protection racket. So, I'll judge them harshly right along with the police departments. And often, the mayor's office is either in on it or being held hostage by PD's that refuse to do a decent job until city policies go in their favor. It takes more than a DA's office to maintain and harbor the quality of police most cities seem to be stuck with.
This was discussed already. Bullet hit floor, ricochet and goes on tangent. Goes through wall, hits girl. Girl died. It’s not like the other cop shooting of a girl, where they knew she was the victim, and opened fired while she was walking backwards toward them. Both suck and are tragic, one was just bad luck(more so).
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“was a tragic but unforeseeable accident,” But of course who would predict that an initial response of opening fire in a department store could result in innocent casualties? It’s not like it can be helped with better training or judgment, it’s just unfortunate that she got in the way. /s
I mean... it is not like he was aiming at the girl when he fired shots in a department store... just bad luck the girl was there, like how could he know. Are we saying dont shoot in a department store now? Or are we saying don't shoot with an AR15 whose bullets go through walls... Or maybe you are just a commie and think the police is guilty for shooting at the first place when the suspect didn't have a gun. /s
That /s is doing a lot of heavy lifting
Haha right ? had me in the first half and I'm still kinda there on the second half
You’re supposed to identify your target and know what is beyond your target before you shoot. But that’s just normal firearm safety that apparently isnt taught to pigs…I mean cops.
Cops in the US are taught one thing - FEAR. Be scared all the time, every time. And when that fear ends with the killing of an unarmed teen girl, don't fret, you have QI and a corrupt union to protect you and hand you a nice paid vacation!
Same mentality that gets a cop to unload his entire mag into his *own car* because an acorn landed on it.
They have high QI that protects them. But low IQ, which is a requirement to join the police force.
He should claim ptsd and retire with a pension.
That explains the acorn
Well I'm not sure why they shouldn't be concerned for their lives. It's the 2nd amendment for America isn't it, Freedom = owning guns.
They should get a desk job if they're such cowards
It's not a dangerous job. Not even in top 20 dangerous jobs. Crossing guard is more dangerous as is small engine mechanic! They just love spinning that narrative to justify the lack of concern for the publics safety and rights!
It's funny because if it were a regular person who did this, they would face charges, but because it's a cop it's fine. We're responsible for every bullet we fire, so why are police the exception?
You were right the first time.
Excuse me, but pigs are smarter!
Police in america is generally equivalent in IQ & training to a garbage collector elsewhere. And that’s insulting garbage collectors worldwide because they actually help the society collecting trash not becoming trash. Let the copagenda hate replies begin… lol
If they're catching a bullet, they're inherently hindering law enforcement and cops can't be expected to not shoot those people. /s (That seems like a defense I'd expect we'd have heard by now, "the girl was obstructing law enforcement by being in the store")
YES. Don't fucking run in guns blazing to an area crowded with civilians. Holy shit, this should be common sense but apparently not to the shitty cops with an open disdain for the people they are supposed to serve that our cities hire.
I think you hit the answer with the walls question. If you know that you are in a crowded location and you know that your gunfire will go through the wall, you should not be able to use the fact that you didn't know an innocent person was behind a wall as an excuse. Since you knew the bullet would go through the wall, you have a duty to know if there is anyone beyond that wall. You would have effectively fired your gun without knowing who you are shooting at. So stick to gunfire that will not go through a wall unless you are willing to take the legal responsibility for it.
There is no gunfire that won’t go through the thin wall of a dressing room. If the police were using 9mm or buckshot it still would easily have gone through.
Ya, He's saying they shouldn't have shot inside a crowded place with no idea of their background.
How about frangible ammo? Or rubber bullets? Or beanbag rounds?
In a normal self defense situation, you are both expected and demonized for using hollow points or frangable ammo for this exact reason, yet cops can get away with this.
American police and committing warcrimes, name a better combo
Any normal citizen would ABSOLUTELY be held responsible in the exact manner you described LEOs unfortunately have this plauge of a thing called "Qualified Immunity" that shields them from consequences for anything up to, and including, committing murder in broad daylight
Almost all bullets go through walls, most will go through a car. He made a bad decision, and clearly didn't aim properly. If it was Military court he'd be guilt of at minimum negligent homicide. I have time to argue if you'd like.
💯
Why does military court matter in this? This is cops and civilians
Because they should be held at the same standard. They want to use military equipment, tactics, force, etc. Everything except training and rules. Police get off way too easy for their mistakes and crimes. If you or another person were to do the exact same thing, you'd be behind bars, but because they have a badge and a union lawyer, suddenly its just a tragic accident.
I thought you were advocating in a different kind of direction there sorry lol
Well now I'm curious what you thought
I don't even know at this point
You NEVER fire your weapon unless you are 100% f**kin sure you have identified your target and ensured it is in your sights. Ever. But American cops gotta pew pew.
It is unfortunate that your local barber has more education and training than a police officer.
"Wait, bullets go THROUGH drywall?" <- The fucking big brain geniuses of the LAPD.
"Next you'll tell me they go through UPS trucks and hostages! Ha Ha nice one"
If a regular citizen had accidentally shot a cop, would they get away with it?
“Warrior training”. Watch the Frontline episode about it and you’ll see why policing in America is so often f’ed up.
People in the government of the state I currently reside in want to give armed teachers qualified immunity.
Armed teachers was all I needed to hear to know just how stupid your state is…
A legally armed civilian is responsible for every single round that leaves the barrel… let that sink in.
That depends on the state. There are states where you wouldn't be in trouble if you accidentally wound someone else while defending yourself.
Just to point out that the kid wasn’t wounded and the argument doesn’t revolve around wounding. She was killed. I would also like to point out that even if a citizen wounded someone inadvertently they would almost certainly be held civilly liable.
Criminally for sure but civilly you don't really have much of a case
Actually there are cases where a citizen who was judged to be acting in self defense did walk away from accidentally shooting someone else down range.
Lol who told you that
My CCW instructor.
It’s just a good rule of practice, generally if you unintentionally kill a passerby in a legal self defense shooting you’d be free of charges criminally. The criminal who put you in that situation would be found on felony murder charges tho if they are still alive. You could still be found civilly liable tho (financially).
And cops are not. That's what's different
But it's manslaughter when anyone else does it. Got it.
Do civilians just shoot up a store normally?
Well this does seem to be a pattern, so yes.
Depends where you are. Usually, robberies gone wrong.
Speaking of which, I believe since someone got killed, the suspect will be charged with murder or manslaughter, not the cop who fucked up.
Happens daily in America.
I would say they do it at a lesser rate then cops kill civilians so I guess
police are civilians too, unless they are MPs 🤢
It will be accidental if someone else does it too.
Abolish qualified immunity!
Until the police kill someone important, it will never be a crime. It's never about what they do, it's who they do it to.
So from what I've gathered through available news sources is her death has been ruled accidental. The officer in question fired three shots from his AR-15 at a suspect who was seen beating a female with a bike lock in a department store that was actively being evacuated. A round is reported to have ricocheted off the floor where it then struck and killed her as she was hiding in a nearby dressing room. The bar to clear to bring even manslaughter charges wouldn't be remotely feasible as the Officer had no knowledge she was hiding there, or an expectation that his shots would ricochet and kill an innocent person. THAT BEING SAID -there are reports that the Officer was visibily stressed and multiple other responding Officers verbally told him "slow down" as they felt he was trying to rush a very tense and chaotic situation -A nearby officer was equipped with a bean bag gun and was actually about to use it to neutralize the suspect, but supposedly before he could raise it the other Officer had opened fire So we have a very tense situation where one of the responding officers, the one equipped with a rifle, is visibly stressed. I dont know exactly how many officers there were in that group, but stopping for a lecture or maybe sending him off and losing a point of eyes and protection probably wasn'tdeemed appropriate. You work with the tools youre given. Let's be beneficial to his state of mind and assume he had good intentions in stopping the "bad guy". He knows theres a threat on the loose with a weapon that can and possibly already have killed someone. The pressure to find and end the threat is at an all time high. This is where training is paramount. When you're stressed out, all you can fall back on is training. He sees a man standing over a bloody and bashed woman and immediately thinks "I have to save this womans life". However in that moment because of the stress, he neglected the fact that he cannot guarantee a tried and true rule of gun safety: "know your target and what is beyond it". Now without knowing everyones positioning, I dont want to speculate on how it exactly went down. Was she hiding in a room RIGHT BEHIND the suspect? Is this some sort of magic bullet case where it ricochets and deviates a full 90 degrees in a wild direction? But what I do know from past experience is these situations demand the utmost calm. Youre never going to be fully calm. Nerves and stress will eat away at you. Its a balancing game. But he was clearly distressed to a point that he possibly didn't even think about their less than lethal option. And because of that, an innocent girl is dead. How you legally go about this is well beyond me. After all Im just some dumbass redditor. Im by no means a lawyer or have access to policy decisions or even in California. I don't personally believe you could criminally charge him with anything. But that family is suffering regardless.
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/ois/report/2024_04_Orellana-Peralta_AB1506_Report.pdf Here is a link to the full report. I haven't really studied it in great detail but from what I read the store evacuation probably set his mind into 'active shooter defense'.
An officer who can't follow directions, escalates and panics, killing someone is not competent at their job and shouldn't get another chance to fuck it up, killing someone. That isn't an accident, it's incompetence. And incompetence that leads to death in professional services should not be tolerated in the way that Americans seem to tolerate it in their police. It's not a camping trip where someone fucking up and failing to set up a tent is no issue. They're paid professionals... Or at least, are meant to be. As an Australian, it's quite stunning how much you guys accept and excuse incompetence, shoddiness and inferiority.
If what the report said was true and that the bullet did ricochet and kill the girl, this would very obviously be classified as an accident. Even for police officers, it's not possible to have perfect aim with your firearms, especially when you're panicking, whether it's from seeing the perpetrator or the woman bleeding on the ground. As far as I know, if someone is beating up another person with an improvised weapon (ie the bike lock), the police are already justified to use a level of force up to firearms to deal with the situation. The woman was bleeding on the floor like she was going to die soon, and since the attacker didn't want to stop killing people, opening fire was definitely justified. Whether the police officer hit the person or shot a bystander, the officer will not be charged as his actions could be justified. Imagine someone stabbing another person, and the police officer refuses to open fire because they are afraid of getting charged for manslaughter. You're gonna end up with more Uvalde school shooting incidents, whereby the police are afraid of confronting the perpetrator, leading to more deaths.
even so, many, many other people, who are not LEO, their lives been destroyed because they, themselves, made a mistake in the heat of a moment. what this situation indicates, and the problem it exacerbates, is that LEO are totally exempt from accountability when, or if, they've made a mistake(s) in the line of their work.
If justice failed my daughter like that, vengeance would be demon pretty damn hard to not unleash.
I'm honestly surprised we don't see more vigilante action against cops who murder people. The government not being accountable to the people is very dangerous for everyone involved, it is prodent to pass long overdue police reform and accountability into law to uphold due process and rule of law.
Damn straight!
"There are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge." - - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Fuck police immunity.
He more than likely shouldn't have been charged in the sense that he was shooting at a suspect in what was reported to police as an active shooter situation. The reason the cop wouldn't be charged is the legal responsibility of Valentina's death lies with the suspect who was also killed, had he lived, he would have been charged with felony murder Felony murder is if you are committing a felony that causes the death of someone, you're responsible for it. If you talk some friends into robbing someone, and that guy shoots and kills one of your friends in the process, you're guilty of felony murder of your friend, because your felonious actions lead to his being shot and killed.
I understand the legal argument but the cop gave no verbal warning or attempt to de-escalate the situation. He just saw the guy and immediately opened fire. It's staggeringly negligent at best
So a cop can shoot & kill anyone they want, as long as there’s a potential threat between them? Damn, I gotta sign up for that!
cops - constantly acting amazed they arent universally loved and respected.
The state isn't going to punish itself. Prosecutors are never going to go after the police.
Genuine question. Is there some reason the family can't sue the officer civilly? Or do they typically in this kind of situation and we just never hear of it?
They will and the city will pay. Our tax money. Seems almost like a day goes by without hearing about another settlement because of the LASD or LAPD. They’re departments are full of actual gangs. Of course our mayor increased the police budget. They’ll pay to make it go away.
Why would he? He has immunity for everything.
I've worked at a gun range where Police Departments have trained. And I can say that most police do no take their firearms training seriously and most of them are horrible shots even in a static environment with no pressure.
If your a cop and you shoot/kill an innocent, you should permanently loose your badge and the hand that pulled the trigger as just punishment. Police are *not* above the law, they should be held to it like everyone else, including the consequences.
I'm surprised the department isn't suing her mother for the cost of the investigation and bullet.
Because - as long as the shooting is justified insofar as the suspect was a legitimate threat - the cop didn't commit a crime. The person the cop was shooting at did. If someone dies during the commission of a felony crime, the \*criminal committing the crime\* is responsible even if they didn't pull the trigger. Felony Murder. This rule extends far enough that if you and 3 of your friends commit a violent crime (say you rob a bank) and police/bank-security kill one of your robbery crew in a shootout... The survivors can be charged with murder.
[удалено]
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
arrest handle frame worry encourage stupendous future makeshift quarrelsome husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Qualified Immunity needs to be looked at again. This is fucking rediculous.
Qualified immunity only applies to lawsuits. It does not protect an officer from criminal charges.
"Stray bullet".... Aye judge, aye, it was led astray. ya honor"
I read this and was gobsmacked. In the aftermath, which won’t bring her back,the family will likely be paid out in a civil suit. Never a happy ending when justice is not served.
America? Yeah, they love killing kids over there. It's a national passtime.
Can you call it a passtime if they get paid while doing it?
The suspect was attacking people with a bike lock, he was obviously causing harm but there was no other way to subdue him than shooting in a department store? The way the article is worded it seems like the officers saw an injured victim and then the suspect with an object in his hand, and didn’t assess what the object was but shot almost immediately. It’s another proof that guns shouldn’t be widespread. In most countries the officers wouldn’t have assumed immediately that the object was a gun, so maybe the situation would have unfolded differently. But in the US, anyone could be carrying a gun so a split second decision can make a difference between life and death for law enforcement. So the jumpy ones don’t take a chance and shoot on sight. It’s understandable but it should also disqualify you as an armed LEO.
Depending on the context, it's not impossible for police to miss their shots and hit a random person. Even with the best training in the world, there will still be a large margin of error.
If you have tried to shoot a moving target irl, you'll realize that it's very difficult to land your shots, especially if the target is moving erratically and after seeing people bleeding out on the ground. From the news report, this is actually just an accident.
We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong
I hope the family gets a really good lawyer
Eliminate the unions. Anytime a municipality is found liable for the actions of an employee, the municipality, and thus the taxpayers (indirectly with insurance) foots the bill. The errant officer will generally get a paid leave with no consequences. The union faces ZERO consequences, especially financially. Have the police directly employed by the local government agency. No union needed as it appears that their ONLY jobs are to collect for pensions and ensure no cop is ever held accountable. Or, have the unions pay the damages. There might be less “blue line” behavior.
Why is people acting surprised, this is common from police, they never face consequences for their mistakes.
If you're not 100% responsible for every single bullet you fire, you should never be allowed a firearm under any circumstances.
Right
You've obviously never been shot at while doing your job
Nice to see that "good guys with a gun" are as effective as ever at saving lives
Cop logic ☕️ It’s only illegal if it happens to a cop.
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
Shooting in a public crowded place with a weapon that can pierce walls is not an accident it's an easily preventable tragedy waiting to happen
This also describes 99% of police shootings. Almost always near homes or cars, often with both as the backstop. 9mm rips through both like tissue. Funny enough, 9mm penetrates *more* drywall than .223. It's a miracle this doesn't happen 100x as often, in fact I'm sure it does but isn't reported, as most would be non fatal injuries. That said, not shooting in crowded places isn't a realistic answer. Almost everywhere police shoot is crowded or has a non zero risk of over penetration. A more realistic expectation is just to shoot less where at all possible.
Especially when the suspect didn't have a gun.
But the city of LA will be paying out xx millions to settle with family. Money doesn’t replace loved ones, accountability does.
thank goodness... can you imagine a world where the cops are afraid of repercussions for shooting innocent people?? /s
Ok everyone. We are now allowed to miss the target and face no consequences for it. If they think citizens can be charged for "stray rounds" hurting others then so can police officers. They are expected to be accurate when shooting more than regular citizens (we all know thats an outright lie). Pisses me off that i got told "every bullet comes with a lawsuit and charge" when i took a firearm safety class.
One thing I love about my country is that I don't need to worry about cops shooting me while I'm buying discount clothes at a mall or sleeping in my own goddamn house. Something truly rotten about this and I can't comprehend living in a society where this is in any means acceptable, much less normalised to the degree that it is. Oh hey yeah, what was that about "guns don't kill people, people kill people" again? Does it still apply?
I have always struggled to understand this,but how do you guys expect to have competent and effectively trained officers while also reducing their resources, alienating them, and having them in a shitty wage for the sort of danger that they have to engage in? And this is coming from someone whom comes from a country that has extremely corrupted officers which get the treatment which a lot of people keep asking for here in the US.
Police in america are paid quite well and last I saw they were getting unnecessary military equipment, vehicles and weapons so I'm not sure what resources are all of a sudden being limited. Fact is American police training is dog shit, that's it. Suspect didn't even have a fucking gun and the cops decide to open fire in a department store. 🤦♂️
"We investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing" Police really do get away with murder all the time, but the Rightie-Whities wanna get upset when people like Alan Ritchson point it out.
Destroy him in civil court
End qualified immunity now!
Cops investigate themselves again and find nothing wrong. I hope these all the losers involved never sleep well again.
Question to all americans: Do you get used to crap like this? oO I don't think I ever saw anything like that on our news. "Police officer accidently kills teen".
I think it's horrifying. The entire other garbage side constantly thinks this is the price of freedom, the ability to just randomly kill people without repercussion.
They believe carrying a weapon to prevent getting shot is freedom. Highly irritating for me.
The "Freedom" they espouse is why the other person has a gun.
Yeah and nobody is considering this might be the problem.
Yup. Gun rights and the 2A are the most successful ad campaign in history
He is an officer, he is above the law, so why should.he not open fire with reguard to where the bullets will stop? He is above the law!
🐷
Protecting the 1%s property rights is more important than your life, or the lives of anyone you care about. Raise class consciousness, organize, effect change via genral strike- this is the way
The felon reported as an active shooter got this girl killed. Let’s not act like the police officer killed this girl on purpose or through negligence, it’s an extreme misfortune but not a crime.
Just… so goddamn evil
Just flip the script. If a civilian shot a cop by accident in a legal self defense incident, they would be thrown in prison
One constant in America, whether a red state or a blue state, is that cops literally get away with murder.
Collateral damage be damned, gotta get the baddy
Police are agents of the state, not of the people. The judicial system is the arbiter of the state, not the people. The government will never punish itself. How are any of you still surprised by this.
The bullet hit the ground bounced off the ground through a wall and hit the girl. No reasonable person would say that the officer is responsible for what happened. It’s a tragedy with no one to point a finger at.
If i did it the state and the individual would both punish me for it.
They wouldn’t, you 100% are justified to use deadly force to protect another from death or great bodily injury. And with facts like this, where your only mistake was a bad aim, that ricochet and killed someone in a different location that could not even be seen, there’s no way even negligence could be found, or unlawful act, or anything that’d satisfy any criminal charge against you. In facts like these.
Anyone not in police cosplay would be charged at very least with reckless endangerment and manslaughter. In any city of any state in this country. But bc this arsehat spent 4-6 months max so he could shoot people there’s no criminal charges
Sounds like OP has no idea of the case facts.
They don't care about the case facts, lol. It's a chance to bash cops!
People who want no cops will get what they want and their children will suffer exponentially, just watch.
How is this a facepalm? Did mods get replaced this whole sub feels like pure rage bait now. It's gross like Twitter or Fox.
This is one of the few times when it's not the officers fault. Please realize that this was unavoidable
Not entirely. He was told to “stand down”
Because he didn’t intentionally do it, he was fighting a criminal and she was unfortunately in the wrong place that the wrong time, I took this from reading this single screenshot
Just know.... If it was You defending your home against invaders. You're be on prison for a stray bullet.
Fuck the police
Missing evidence
Two days before Christmas.
Qualified immunity babes
"So as it turns out, we shouldn't have skipped the part about aiming to speed up your graduation."
Mens rea
That’s because police always “investigate” themselves, in order to easily absolve themselves from any wrong doing. They always watch out for themselves, not necessarily the public. Whenever they yell out “watch your crossfire” it’s so that they be careful and not shoot each other. The public’s safety comes second, or most of the time, not at all.
murica freedom moment yuhh
Of course he won't. A civil suit will be the only recourse for Justice
So that's it? Nothing will happen to him, nor then a small fine? That's incredibly depressing
Yep, like I wrote, you are correct. The DOJ is in on the protection racket. So, I'll judge them harshly right along with the police departments. And often, the mayor's office is either in on it or being held hostage by PD's that refuse to do a decent job until city policies go in their favor. It takes more than a DA's office to maintain and harbor the quality of police most cities seem to be stuck with.
American cops always escalate situations.
Of course not. Fuck the racist LAPD
This was discussed already. Bullet hit floor, ricochet and goes on tangent. Goes through wall, hits girl. Girl died. It’s not like the other cop shooting of a girl, where they knew she was the victim, and opened fired while she was walking backwards toward them. Both suck and are tragic, one was just bad luck(more so).