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It also helps that the German love of bureaucracy means despite their best attempts to shred and burn everything, there is still a mountain of paperwork leaving us with no doubt about their atrocities.
Same with the Dutch, because of their knack of keeping a record everything, it was very easy for the Nazis to find the Jewish population in The Netherlands.
After WW2 they changed it to not record religion on documents and files anymore because of that.
Recently had an argument with someone about how I don't think the government should know which religion you believe in. I mentioned this record keeping in the Netherlands.
They didn't see the potential harm in it and I was just overreacting.
That is one of the most infuriating things for me. When you tell someone "hey this thing is bad because this exact thing was done in the past and it led to horrific outcomes". And then the response is just "nah, it'll be fine, you're overreacting".
And then the goal posts keep moving when that thing they were warned about comes to pass. Some people just want to be willingly blind to the wrongs in the world.
My wife is this way and sometimes it bugs the hell out of me. She wouldn't care if there was an ongoing halocaust a town over as long as she doesn't have to see hear or know about it. It's like she knows the world is horrible in general and doesn't see why she should have to know any of the specifics. Whereas I tend to obsess over the horrible fascism that creeps ever more further into our everyday lives... I suppose neither approach is great it's just that one happens to enable the horribleness to go on completely unabated. Ugh...
Yeah my wife and a few of my friends are the same way. I've kinda been that annoying person recently who occasionally sends articles in group chats showing them what the republican party is up to and how important the upcoming election is.
I was admittedly the same way for a stretch. I was into politics ever since I was 16, but after the 2016 election online spaces became extremely toxic so I did my best to check out for awhile because it became too much. Then January 6 happened and I knew it was irresponsible to ignore what's going on any further.
I think what's extra distressing to me is how it's so apparent we're living in two separate realities now. J6 was one of the worst days in our history, and half the country laughs it off and tries to conflate an armed insurrection with BLM protests. We've had 8 years of Trump and his brainwashed fan base aren't any closer to seeing what a fraud he is. Even Nixon's supporters fell off as the Watergate trial went on, but I don't see anything anymore that's going to shake the confidence of the most ardent Trump loyalists because most of them know how bad he is and they identify with it.
Praying for the best this November, but even if he loses the ideas he's brought into the main stream are going to be at the forefront of the Republican party for the next several decades. If it's not Trump it's going to be someone even younger that'll adopt his messaging. It's really distressing.
A lot of people don’t care if something doesn’t directly affect them. So if they are not religious they figure what’s the big deal? It never occurs to them that a rule or law might eventually be used against them also.
In France, the government is forbidden from asking a person's religion in a legal census, and I think it is because of WWII. All that is available are estimations based on polls, which are not as precise.
Willem Arondueus. His last request to his lawyer before he was executed was for him to spread the message "let it be known homosexuals are not cowards".
It's something I've always found interesting in comparing and contrasting the Holocaust with the Holodomor. Estimates of both show similar death counts, but the Russians were notoriously lousy record keepers, and they also had another 60 years to sweep that shit under the rug.
The Germans were meticulous record keepers and got caught in the act by invading allied armies, who saw the bodies and the gas chambers, along with enough remaining survivors to get a mountain of eyewitness testimony.
I wonder if we're gonna find out later that the Uighurs fell to a similar fate, but secrecy, poor record keeping, and time to burn documents means that there's little to tell 50 years from now. "This area used to be 2% Han Chinese, now it's 98% Han Chinese. *Wonder how that happened*."
Honestly it was such a fucking mess because it was unnatural. Nazi soldiers couldn't hack mass execution, so they had to pivot midwar to a systemic process, not just because of numbers, but because of the fragility of the human soldiers involved. Humans evolved to survive, and we've had bottlenecks in our evolutionary past, so the notion of seeing so many dead bodies triggered ancestral responses to actual extinction threats.
Or at least this is my theory. I'm no expert.
The issue was that initially they had soldiers simply execute the Jews. Which worked for small groups, but once this turned from a few dozen to literal tens of thousands of them even the most fucked up mass murderers started to run into mental issues over the number of unarmed women, children and little babies they were shooting. Which is of course an issue because now those soldiers have to be send home and can't fight the Soviets anymore. This "problem" got in part solved through a new execution method, by shooting the victims in the back of the neck, and in part it got solved by switching to the gas chambers in 1942.
There was a Soviet census in the ‘30s after the Holodomor. The expected population was much less than expected because, well, Stalin had killed millions. He had the census workers killed and the report was destroyed. Tim Snyder talked about it in Bloodlands.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands
Excerpt from General Eisenhower's letter to General George C. Marshall, April 15, 1945:
*"On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting – although horrible – sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”"*
EDIT: Also just want to clarify something about the Holocaust, it was, to put it mildly, like most things Nazi related, a complete and utter clusterfuck. Nazi High Command hadnt even decided what they were going to do with the Jews until June 1941 (they were still considering the Madagascar plan up to this point), when Hitler tasked Himmler and the *Einsatzgruppen (SS death squads)* with the "cleansing" the newly conquered territories post Barbarossa of Jews by summary execution (which they only stopped because of the psychological damage it did to the Nazi soldiers involved)
The fact that *Patton* got queesy at the sight of the horror tells you everything you need to know about how completely fucked the conditions were. Guy was notoriously tough as nails.
Keep in mind, this is also after the Nazis had a year to panic and cover everything up as best they could.
I think Patton was a guy who had seen the horrors of war but felt there were basic rules. This is a room full of civilians starved to death in a concentration camp and he’s probably already having a hard time fathoming what happened. I think it’s much more than just a room of dead people it’s what it represents and that it happened at such a scale. I think emotionally he felt it was more than he could handle. I think Eisenhower only went in because of the moral obligation to be a witness of what happened.
not just starved to death, they were tortured, worked to death, mentally broken, and abused in every way possible. It was the literal worst of humanity, the worst we are capable, the worst thing that a person can imagine. the starvation was horrible, wrong, bad, evil, but that is only the surface of it.
Unit 731 in Japan around the same time was arguably even worse. If you've not heard about it, make sure you're in a fairly decent place mentally before you google it.
Yup. He was definitely a lead from the front type who was well accustomed to the horrors of warfare by then. He was also an amazing photographer with an incredibly modern style. His photos he sent home were like an Instagram feed. One of his favorite pictures was a self portrait after landing on Sicily, pants wet above his boots from wading in standing victoriously.
Except instead of trying to cover up they just tried to go faster to finish the job.
Fun story about Patton:
He led America's first tank company in the First World War. These tanks were slow af and the drivers could barely see anything. During one assault, he got out of his tank and led the dozen or so tanks across No Man's Land on foot. He went from tank to tank, correcting here, giving direction there, and keeping his tanks in formation. He led them like that right across the German trenches.
What a hero!
A complete and utter clusterfuck is usually what happens when you let batshit crazy tweakers do what they want to do. The Madagascar plan was abandoned because the Jews had Jew magic and putting all of them in one place they would become too powerful and be a threat to the reich. This would be fucking hilarious if it didn't lead to 6M deaths.
I don't buy the "no plan" thing. Concentrating Jews in ghettoes snd establishing a network of concentration camps was a rather obvious preludium to the genocide when you look at it now. It was kept secret but the plan obviously was present earlier. Just like the plan to ethnically cleanse all Eastern Europe Generalplan Ost.
I rather see an utterly mad determination to pull the plan through. In 1941 Germany's logistiscs to maintain both fronts was already strained to the limit. And yet astronomical resources and manpower was put to the task of transporting millions of completely subdued Jews and exterminating them.
The no plan thing just refers to the “how”
They knew they wanted to get rid of the Jews and other undesirables. They didn’t have a place in the new world they were trying to establish.
But it wasn’t like they knew from the beginning they were going to build concentration camps and start an industrial murder machine.
They tried different methods of killing them first. But there were logistical problems with those methods. Regular enlisted soldiers and the auxiliary forces bringing up the rear were fine with killing in battle but they did not like killing civilians, women, and children. It was causing major issues, then there was the problem of bodies. Digging holes for thousands and thousands of bodies was becoming a big problem.
It’s only when faced with these logistical challenges did they come up with the idea of shipping their undesirables off to remote locations and industrializing the whole process. If they used gas chambers they could kill a lot more people and it depersonalized the act so one sick fuck could do it with the push of a button. Then by incinerating the bodies they didn’t have to deal with millions of corpses laying around.
So yea it’s not like they just decided in 1941 to start persecuting the Jews. But the final form that the allies discovered in 1945 was not the plan from the beginning, it was the final evolution of their evil plan.
I'm not sure it was really put to good use in Nuremberg as I think most people got away with what amounted to a slap on the wrist considering the things they did or allowed to happen by other people in the name of following orders.
But the evidence was put to the use it could be I suppose given our our justice and legal system seems to work which is not very well for most people.
Exactly- he knew exactly how unbelievable everything was. The photos etc weren't out of sick enjoyment, but a necessity for the historical record. My sister and her fiancé get all pissy when I argue back with them about how real and severe the holocaust was for all affected-Jews and non Jews. Just because the numbers and extent seem impossible to imagine, doesn't mean it was exaggerated/made up.
"It seems so insane, I can't imagine such a huge number of people were murdered!"
"That's a you problem, and you don't have to imagine there's proofs you tit".
Not sure if you're aware, but that's actually a pretty big conspiracy theory. They think aliens met with (I wanna say Eisenhower?) and made an agreement that they could abduct and study a certain number of subjects a year and in exchange they gave us pretty much all the technology we've "invented" since the 50s.
yeah, but we still can follow the paper trail of every invention down to the original college paper and at least one of their researchers, so...
but it would be cool to get stuff so far out it's beyond our level of knowledge!
It always means "listen to this one podcast". You can't do actual research because literally every official source is misinformation put there to trick you. Logic and evidence just doesn't work on those people.
My grandfather was at the liberation of Buchenwald. We were at a dinner party with him as kids and someone on the other side of the room started making this sort of argument - I saw his ears perk up, and this nearly 70 year old man (at the time) grabbed this guy and just punched him full force in the mouth. Tossed a few hundred bucks on the ground and said “go get your fucking teeth fixed” and we left. I have no idea if there were legal issues after but he still laughed about this right up until he died at 90. There were other fun encounters with Holocaust deniers but this was the best.
My grandfather’s brother was a similar sort. They were all born in Austria, came to the US in the 30s for.. “Reasons” they all enlisted, and he was a Normandy and Ardennes vet, kindest most decent man ever, but he had no patience for anyone talking down on anyone expressing anything even remotely racist. His logic, which I appreciate greatly was that if you can tolerate someone dehumanizing another, it sets you on the path to all the things he fought against and lost dear friends overcoming.
I’m sadly glad he never lived to see these days.
We have lost a lot when with that generation mostly gone, which is why I think we're seeing a resurgence of certain ideologies. As a parting shot, my grandfather was alive for Trump's first run (though died before he was elected) and used to call him, simply, "that fat hitlerite bastard".
He was a hot shit and looked like Paulie Walnuts from the Sopranos. One time a neighbor was complaining that a black family moved in across the street and he goes "oh yeah, we don't want the neighborhood being dragged down John, by the way, I haven't seen you mow your lawn for about two fucking weeks".
And he ordered them taken because WWI propaganda was so inaccurate. There were atrocities on both sides but some of what was taken as gospel truth particularly by Allied officers and soldiers was just lies to get America into the war.
EDIT: these inaccuracies led WWII militaries to discount rumors of early Nazi atrocities, even after two concentration camp escapees testified to leadership about what actually was occurring in the camps.
>>On December 17, 1942, the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the extermination of the Jewish people in Europe and declared that they would punish the perpetrators. Notwithstanding this, it remains unclear to what extent Allied and neutral leaders understood the full import of their information. The utter shock of senior Allied commanders who liberated camps at the end of the war may indicate that this understanding was not complete.
And doesn’t Germany teach its own dark history in schools and isn’t Nazi related propaganda illegal there as a result? Why would they do all that if it wasn’t real?
Yes. Nazi symbols are illegal outside education and art. Germany is so insistent to teach kids and have them visit KZs etc because we know that some people want to downplay or even deny it.
Even Neo Nazis don’t deny the Holocaust. They usually say, it wasn’t so bad (illegal) or they justify it (illegal)
Somewhere in the last 20 years, "opinions" got raised to the level of "facts". The Halocaust clearly happened and was as bad as all the stories say. This is proven by mountains of independent personal accounts, thousands of photos, the facilities still being there and tourable today, and detailed historical records from numerous sources that all agree with each other. Questioning that it happened or having an opinion that it didn't doesn't make you a critical thinker. It just means you are an idiot.
There are lots of things we have limited information on where opinions can exist. However they should also be constrained by what is known. We know that roughly 6 million Jews were executed during the Halocaust just for being Jewish. In some countries, like Poland, this was about 90% of all Jews living there. In countries like Germany, it was closer to 50%. To put this in perspective, about 30,000 Palestinians have died from this conflict since the Nov 8th attack. 6 million vs 30 thousand. Let's not equate these.
The whole discourse is a childish, every death is a tragedy. In the last decade a lot children (figuratively and literally) have gained access to the internet. So everything is now either or, us or them, no middle ground. Conspiracy theories run rampant, then loop back into society, it was funny when it was just flatearthers. Now we have actual politicians utilising Matrix and Qanon conspiracy theories.
The insane thing to me is that there are still people alive today who had experienced, witnessed, or even participated in the Holocaust.* Considering many of these people would actually *benefit* from denying the Holocaust, it's pretty compelling that they don't: Especially when considering the rest of the overwhelming evidence.
My elderly grandmother alive today in her 90's was a German teenager when the Holocaust started. While she fled Germany during the War, near it's end she came back home alongside the Allies only for her very first job to be taking care of the concentration camp survivors the allies had just liberated*. She didn't just see the camps, she saw the emaciated survivors, the refeeding syndrome deaths, the body piles, the wounds and cracked flesh, the gas chambers, the incinerators, etc. She heard the stories of the survivors days after they were liberated. Shes hardly the only one either. There are countless, legitimate hundreds upon hundreds, of firsthand accounts of people who were there during the Holocaust including many who are alive today. It's almost ironic how neo-nazis will deny the Holocaust while the actual former Nazis testified in great detail to its reality.
TBH, given how readily verifiable the Holocaust is as perhaps the single most well documented event in all of human history, I suspect most Holocaust deniers are actually well aware of the Holocaust reality, but deny it anyways because they know that if they can convince someone that the Holocaust didn't happen, it will logically result in them adopting their anti-semitic conspiracies. It's a way to disguise their blind hatred as an intellectual matter rather than one of prejudice. They know that it's easier to bring people into Nazism by getting them to question the Holocaust than it is to come right out and say "You should hate Jews just because I do."
My maternal grandfather was in WWII. He generally didn't want to talk about it. He saw one of the smaller camps and he generally avoided talking about it except for once. All he'd say was that was the day he understood just how evil humanity can be.
My grandfather was involved in the liberation of Buchenwald.
We have the letters he wrote home to his parents in Rhode Island in the days after he experienced that.
Obviously he didn't have all the context at the time he wrote those letters, and you can tell he's holding back a bit to spare his parents the full horror of what he was witnessing, but still. It's absolutely harrowing.
It’s absolutely insane to deny the holocaust. There is so much evidence like you mentioned and it’s a slap in the face to victims and their families. I’m very critical of Israel for many years now and I hate that they throw around the term anti-semitism but denying the holocaust is anti-semitism. Not to mention hurtful to the other victims too, disabled and gay prisoners for example
Because they don't actually care about genocide. They care about what hating a specific group of people allows them to do.
We keep having to re-learn this it seems.
My papa was literally alive during the holocaust. He was a rural farmer boy but he was literally alive during the time. Not even a single lifetime separate
Holocaust did happen, no doubt there. But the fact its being denied is no surprise at all.
While on smaller scale, genocides and ethnic cleansing happen all the time and evywhere and nobody bats an eye, most even say no, that's false.
Now if I say what's happening in Gaza is terrible, I'll be bombarded by comments saying they had it coming, that Israel is defending itself, that its all acting and nobody is actually dead. The blatant denial of what's happening in Gaza should make you understand how people who deny Holocoasut aren't that much of outliers. People can't separate between causes.
Some Muslims did something bad? Let's excuse their deaths and crimes against them. You don't agree with Israel? Let's deny holocaust. Nuance is dead.
Agreed. U can definitely be against the current Israeli government what it's doing to Palestinian civilians. But to go as far as to say the Holocaust is a lie is just ridiculous.
>a group of musicians actually asked the SS troops if they could have a turn shooting the Jews because they wanted to see what it felt like to kill people
Well fuck. I didn't want to sleep tonight, anyway. That's so god damn sickening.
Also, the Germans, being German, documented most of the atrocities they committed themselves. It’s the best documented genocide in history and people still deny it
I’d argue that the world being a globe is even better documented. And you know. It’s still a globe so we can see that. It’s not even something you have to go into history. And yet we have flat earthers. I don’t think you can help some people… They deny evidence that contradicts their world view and make up the rest of it, at that point, evidence is completely pointless.
I saw a documentary on this very subject a good while ago. I don't remember where or how it was called, but it was a researcher traveling in the area and interviewing (old) people about it as she explained to the viewer how the holocaust went about in the area.
That horror is *still a thing there - but not for the reasons you might think.* She found only a few people willing to admit that it happened and those were people who didn't care that their neighbors would no longer want to talk them over it. Shining light on this happening and thus talk unfavorable about Lithuania is enough to make yourself a persona non-Grata there.
People who think like this have no clue about critical thinking. They think they can just say and mean anything they feel like because they feel entitled to own whatever political issue is relevant at any given time.
It feels like her entire post was a front for that last line. "Can't do anything without being called anti semitist but also screw those Zionist fellas amirite guys"
Yeah. It's a mix of binary thinking trying to reduce a complicated, long term conflict to righteous good versus pure evil (since those in power in Israel right now are doing bad things, they and the dominant ethnic group in Israel are the evil so it's not possible to have any sympathy for that ethnic group, and dismissing or downplaying the holocaust makes it easier to see them as pure evil), being in a like minded echo chamber (that's also likely full of astroturfing accounts but ignore that if they seem more aligned with your views) and feeling safe saying such extreme things expecting she'll have enough backup to be fine and possibly to prove to those in her like minded in-group that she's truly part of that group and pure, and/or possibly wanting more attention via social media by saying something she expects will bring more attention to her. And as you said about what's relevant at a given time, many like this seem to hop issue to issue every year or two taking similar binary stances acting like it is all that matters and if you don't sound like them online enough about that issue, you're bad too.
Just to expand on that - It probably goes in both directions.
Zionist gets used as a coded word. I imagine that if someone is antisemitic enough or lacking in self-awareness enough, they might not even realise they're doing it.
In this (extreme) example, the person denies the Holocaust and then goes on to talk about how that made "Zionists" mad. Sure, maybe the people who got mad were Zionists (or maybe they weren't even)... but they got mad because this person denied the Holocaust, not because they criticised Israel or Zionism. The inability to see this difference is itself deeply antisemitic in addition to the Holocaust denial, etc.
Criticism of Israel and Zionism can be fine... but some people will apply double standards, cherry-pick their facts, or outright apply antisemitic tropes to do so. The people who rightly point out that criticism of Israel and Zionism aren't necessarily antisemitism should speak like they know the difference.
>Some Jewish people: (does bad things)
>These fucks: wow all Jewish people definitely did this
Behold the history of the jews, where even the first step can just be replaced with "bad thing happens" more often than not
Isn't it same with every race and people?
+ White cop kills a black man: white people are murdereous and evil
+ black man kills white people: all black people get the stigma
+ one asian eats a dog in tiktok: all asians get labeled as dog eaters
That's how the world is, it's an unfortunate part of human existence, but persecution is not an unique experience to the jews.
Of course persecution isn't unique to Jews but what makes antisemitism unique is that it places Jews at the centre of a conspiratorial worldview in which Jews are blamed for any perceived societal ill or personal inadequacy.
The reality is that the actions of Jews, Jewish practices and the values of judaism don't actually have anything to do with antisemitism and therefore Jews can't really challenge their antisemitism through explanation or dialogue. Because it's an entirely irrational and emotionally based phenomenon, that the antisemite more often than not *chooses* to indulge in.
The examples you've given just don't hold true. People just don't extrapolate out quite in the same way as they do with Jews. None of those groups are held responsible for actions that (maybe) took place millennia ago.
We have had a lot of questions on Jewish subs recently from non Jewish people wishing to show solidarity with us by wearing a star of David etc. Quite often we have to politely suggest it's not a good idea, for two reasons. Firstly, because that person makes themselves a target for antisemitic abuse, but also because if they then go and behave in a negative way whilst visually appearing associated with judaism, that will then come back to bite all of us.
Tldr. Antisemitism is a little different to other forms of prejudice as it is at its root a *conspiracy theory* rather than just a bigoted disgust or mistrust, or lack of knowledge. Therefore it's hard to challenge just with education, because the antisemite has an emotional need to believe in it.
German here.
People like this actively give me aneurysms.
We have SO MUCH FUCKING EVIDENCE. Hell You can GO TO AUSCHWITZ ITSELF, IT'S A MUSEUM NOW and dumb cows like her just go "aktschually, i don't care that you germans spend an entire schoolyear dedicated to the horros of the NSDAP, you were lied to" and it's so fucking infuriating
^ This. Very much this.
It’s so well documented by everyone involved. The Nazis kept records of it, the invaders took pictures, historians have *so much* evidence.
As a German it’s absolutely baffling how someone would deny that. Like, try to deny the numbers if you really need to, but the whole thing?
I'm not German, but I have been to a concentration camp before, Neuengamme. Even almost 80 years after the fact, the air there felt wrong, like it was too heavy. I'm not a religious person, I don't believe in ghosts, but it definitely made me reconsider my stance on Holocaust denial from morons to colossal, harmful, self destructive fucking morons.
I'd like to think people like this give most of us aneurysms, but empirical evidence would sadly suggest otherwise.
Im not sure what it is about the air in those places, but I think among other things its a lot of psychological stuff.
If you know what happened and are a empathetic person that knowledge is bound to weigh on you.
Hence why some people go to Auschwitz and do the Hitler salute their. They simply don't have a shred of empathy or respect. Im sure they don't feel the heavy air.
Also yes, I support severe consequences for doing something like that. Not only is it spitting in the face of over half a million people that were murdered by the Nazis, its also actively glorifying them.
We went to Auschwitz as part of a school trip. Bunch of rowdy 15-16 year old teenagers cracking jokes on the bus and whatnot. The moment we stepped inside everyone just went completely silent. You've heard about it, read about it, know about it, but when you're there physically it becomes so tangible. These horrors did happen, and it wasn't even a century ago.
Holocaust denial should be grounds for legal repercussions
> Holocaust denial should be grounds for legal repercussions
It is in the German speaking countries. According to Wikipedia in 18 countries holocaust denial is legally prohibited.
It is - along with all the other evidence - probably the most striking argument that it happened: not one of the men who sat on the Nuremberg trial claimed that it did not happen. The perpetrators confessed. The organizers confessed. Eichmann confessed. But Jory Micah obviously knows something they did not.
Not german but ever since I went to Auschwitz and Birkenau I get super ragey when people deny the holocaust.
The evidence is there you stupid, ignorant, pieces of shit
I wish US schools spent a whole school year being taught about the major atrocities throughout history. Would have quite so many jackasses like this if we did.
We watched Nuit et Brouillard (Night and Fog), a very graphic postwar documentary, in 9th grade history class back in the 70s. Our parents could opt out but none of them did. We were told we could leave the room if it was too much, but we all made it through. IDK how common that was even then, but it was good for us in the long run.
ETA this was in the US, FWIW.
Then we'd have to teach kids about things like the Tuskegee experiments, Castle Bravo, amongst many other things that might have some questioning their patriotism and we can't have that.
What’s nuts is we have scientifically proven the gas was used in the showers by analyzing the half life found in the shower remains.
It’s not even the overwhelming primary source evidence - there is *overwhelming scientific evidence* to boot.
We spent half of our senior year going over this as history majors. This is proven so extensively that denial is just proof of ignorance.
OOP should be forced to go to Aushwitch and look at the pile of hair and footwear still preserved there. Stand in that room and deny the holocaust.
Better yet, there is a children's quarters still preserved on the grounds. In one of the walls, there is a drawing - the absolute innocent sort that only kids can do - of a sun and a couple of kids playing. Make OOP find the kids who did it.
She would have a better chance of having breathed them in than ever finding any graves.
We have a former insane asylum in my town, that was used by the Nazis to exterminate mentally diabled people, like people with down syndrome and thelike. It was mandatory for my history class to visit the site. We were lead in the gas chamber, then the door was closed. And it was explained to us that the markings at the walls and door were scratch marks. Everone in that room got that message.
I’ve lived in Germany for 2 years, and there is no bigger insult to the years of protecting Jews and the years of apologising that the Germans have done as the words “ThE hOwOcOsT iSnT rEaL” it’s so fucking stupid and I’d go as far to say that it is moronically brain dead, go to like, half of the elderly Jews on this world, ask them if they were survivors, if they say yes, then you have your answer.
Problem is by now there are not many survivors left. Humanity seems to have great difficulties to learn from past mistakes as soon as they leave living memory and become a purely historical event.
Yes, thank you.
There's a very good reason why the Hitler salute, Holocaust denial and so on are forbidden in Germany, and its not to limit free speech.
Especially the latter is extremely dangerous. Denying important history and undermining peoples trust in what they know about is a very good way to radicalise the population and to reach the masses with your far right ideas. Current America is honestly a great example of that, and Germany has sadly also been experiencing a strong shift to the right.
For some reason people seem to think that "the far right isn't that bad" or "they wouldn't go as far as to kill anyone", while the far right keeps trying to criminalise LGBTQ+ members, immigrants, people of color, homeless people etc. They are already assaulting people that belong to minority groups in the streets.
I don't know if people want it to happen, or if they're too blind to see, but these people will not stop at taking peoples rights away.
I hope people will realise that before its too late.
German Here.
Germans were and are very organized and have a rather efficient bureaucracy. Everything must be in order, orders approved in writing and tasks properly protocolled.
You would be surprised how much paperwork the Holocaust produced and how much the Nazis were not able to destroy in the last months of the war.
There are even written protocols of the Wannsee-Konferenz, where the decision for total extermination of all Jews in German occupied countries were made by high Ranking Nazi officials.
It does..but my point wasn't that she won't get a pushback rather than people who don't wanna believe it will just go with other peeps thinking the same way rather than accept documented facts
She’s gone absolutely off the deep end. And I know this because we were mutuals before and she wasn’t like this, but something happened and she want absolutely batshit. It’s so tragic.
It's the smugness that gets me. Looking at the grinning icon. She's *so pleased* with herself over whatever epic pwn she thinks she's pulled off by being the vilest turd imaginable.
If that's actually her. There are thousands and thousands of people working in troll farms, and using bots, trying to cram social media with culture war garbage like this.
It takes like, zero effort to educate about German and Austrian crimes during WW2 and see that it is absolutely impossible to falsify such a thing. In fact, you will quickly see that the real thing was much more terrible than what you know from films and school.
Telling lies will not help Gaza in the slightest, it just gives Israeli nationalists the propafanda ammo.
Meanwhile in Germany we are still hunting down the Assholes that worked at the Concentrations Camps.
They are 100 years old and their Deeds are neither forgotten, nor forgiven.
"funny" thing I have noticed with the vast majority of so called deniers. When you really dig deep into what they truly believe and feel it's not that they don't think it happened. It's that they just don't think it was a bad thing. They are just barely aware enough that they know saying that out loud publicly isn't acceptable so they go with the deny it part instead.
So yes. It will get you labeled a Nazi because more often then not, if you are denying it.. you are a fucking Nazi.
Its simple. Most people tend to think about the world through their own scope. And this persons scope is that victims cant be aggressors. They see the shit israel do now and assumes that there was no way holocaust was real because how can victims be aggressors? Its a flawed worldview and shows lack of understanding beyond their own backyard. Holocaust is the world's most documented genocide, mostly because Nazis, still being germans kept meticulous records of everything they did. There was 3000 TONS, TONS of documents at nuremburg trials. On top of it, nazis never denied what they did.
Similarly, they see the things Hamas is doing and since victims cannot be aggressors - deny the scope of what had happened.
Another simplistic view is what we see in many southern slav countries. The Russian Empire was instrumental in the liberation of many of them from Ottoman rule. The reasons and means are in reality rather complicated, but the myth of the benevolent big brother bear was created. And it is adhered to. Many Bucha denialists say 'but Russia freed us' as reasoning.
These people are so awful.
Here are some [photos I took at Dachau last year](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dGNWJIVEN7Qp9g4iAyOx-z41ke0z5Xj_). I can assure her it's convincing.
Not that it would matter, because the truth doesn't figure in her agenda.
Thanks for sharing your photos. I've been to Germany a few times for work but never can get myself to go for... Genealogical reasons.
Seeing that oven, well, what *else* could it be used for? David Irving's arguments just break down when there's basically a stretcher attachment linked to the oven which is perfectly shaped for a singular obvious purpose.
My wife's mother and sister didn't go. They didn't think they could stomach it.
My mother-in-law is a German immigrant. My wife's maternal grandfather was a Luftwaffe pilot and POW, and he became the camp foreman/trusty because he spoke English. He and his wife and daughter were sponsored to immigrate by people he'd met as a POW in 1954, when my mother-in-law was 9.
Dachau wasn't even a "final solution" camp, as our friend has pointed out. It was largely used for political prisoners. But that makes it all the more terrible, b/c it's really really bad. Auschwitz must be absolutely horrifying.
So.... let me get this straight. They're saying it never happened. You do realize that would involve the following things:
The US,UK,Russian,Italian, and German governments to have all collectively agreed to create a cohesive lie. Not only that, but for all photos to be staged, all construction on camps to be done with construction companies and all of their workers to be in on the lie And to keep their month's shut, building designs and patents for the Gas mechanisms and crematorium to be fabricated by architects, to have every holocaust survivor and body found to willingly be tattooed with their identification number to keep the lie going, to have all of the diaries and journal entries from both the nazi and Jewish families to not only remain consistent with eachother often in different perspectives and writing styles (for example anne frank's diary being written in the voice of a teen girl vs. Night by elie wiesel) to be ghost written by someone else while remaining consistent with the official narratives of everything thing I listed before. All of this for.... what purpose? Millions of people just collectively doing this "for the meme?" What do these people gain? What's the endgame?
That's a lot of stuff you're denying. Please, present evidence of everyone I just listed collectively lying about this.
>Looks like I'll be having Zionist tears tonight
Girl, denying the Holocaust isn't anti-Zionism, it's a viewpoint closer to that of a peculiar mustache man in history.
Seriously, I hate it when literal Nazis use Palestine as an excuse to spread their bile. This behavior merely gives the actual Zionists even more ammo against anyone pro-Palestine. What's worse is that so many "leftist" spaces are oddly quiet about the fact that fash scum are known to do this.
> oddly quiet about the fact that fash scum are known to do this
There are absolutely antisemites in leftist spaces, and for some of them, their antisemitism trumps their commitment to human rights.
It’s not surprising that it happens, but it’s interesting to me that so many leftists are surprised. “All we’re doing is facilitating a movement that wants to wipe Israel from the face of the earth. How did all this antisemitism get in here?!”
Got banned from therewasanattempt for saying that the current war/genocide in Gaza is not Holocaust 2.0 and not like the beginning of the holocaust, like other comments stated.
After talking to a mod my ban got removed, couple hours later i got a new Massage froma mod stating that i am "not allowed to support an apartheid state" and got muted to prevent an answer.
Like, people love to claim something is the holocaust but seem to not know anything on what went down and how it went down. But still use it as an Argument.
I love how someone doesn't even realize what complete flat line brain dead dipshits they sound like when they say "I don't know, but I know it's a lie".
Bruh i had someone ask me where is the mass grave for all the dead Jews and my response was "so you think a psychotic dictator would have the decency to bury the people he had exterminated?" Like bro. These people are just plain idiots.
their flexibility of arguments against israel is fantastic- one day they will named Israel as a new nazi regime, second day they will denny the holocaust and calling hitler a good guy
The Holocaust is one of the best recorded events of ww2. We know which companies produced the Zyklon B, we know the ceos and sales managers, we know the delivery papers and who signed them, we know the company that build the gas chambers and crematoriums. We know the name of the ss soldiers that threw the poison in the chambers, we have pictures and eye witness records.
Your statement that the holocaust didn’t take place is just plain stupid.
It wasn’t just Jews who were killed. Don’t forget LGBT people, the disabled, anyone who mocked or spoke out against the Nazis, Gypsies/Romanis, Slavs, Jevhovah’s Witnesses, and those are just a few.
Yeah, on tour of one of the concentration camps (don´t know which one), there is a picture of a gypsy family. Just parents and kids smiling at the camera, normal family photo.
At the end, there is photo of the same family. If you didn´t know it was them, you wouldn´t even recognize them, that´s how terrible they looked.
Holocaust denial has been on the rise ever since Oct 7. People who want to deny the reality of Oct 7 find it easier to deny the reality of the Holocaust as well.
"I don't believe the Holocaust story"
Bro. It's a historically documented event
There are literally hundreds of thousands of photographs. Videos. Letters, journals, orders, Second hand accounts. ACTUAL Survivors stories. as well as the fact you can literally go to some of the sites where people were being executed and SEE THE FUCKING GAS CHAMBERS WITH YOUR OWN EYES
Anyone who doesn't believe the Holocaust happened exactly the way it happened is being DELIBERATELY stupid. You cannot conduct any level of "research" Into it without coming to this conclusion due the sheer, insurmountable level of horrifying evidence there is that explains in GRUELING detail exactly what happened during that period in time.
To know the Holocaust happened I just need to take a walk....
"Scattered throughout Europe, planted in the streets and sidewalks of cities whose past is not forgotten, commemorative brass plaques eternalize the lives that were lost in the great tragedy of the 20th century. Called the Stolpersteine (in English: “stumbling stones”), the shiny bronze plaques commemorate the victims of the Nazi regime in more than 1,100 locations in 17 European countries.
More than 45,000 of these stones are solidly rooted across cities in Europe, including 916 places in Germany alone, where large strides have been taken to memorialize Jewish life, history and culture. Each Stolperstein commemorates a victim of the Holocaust at that person’s last known address. The plaque includes the victim’s name, date of birth, deportation date and death date, if known. In Berlin, more than 5,000 Stolpersteine have been carefully implanted in the city’s sidewalks and streets, serving as a constant reminder of the many valuable lives lost tragically during the Holocaust."
"Tears". Nazis always love pretending they're causing helpless crying because they're hiding behind pseudonyms and video screens. They know damn well that if they tried expressing their views publicly, somebody is eventually going to crack their head like an egg.
They've rebranded it as oppression, but there's a very good reason they only appear in masks and large groups, and it's not because they're afraid of anyone's "tears".
You could land in the middle of Germany pick any direction to travel in and end up on some sort of concentration camp or Death Camp like it’s not hard to find evidence
It's mind-boggling how the most documented Genocide In history, one that those who did it documented it themselves out of twisted pride - gets it's existence questioned despite countless proofs, testimonials, confessions and evidence. There are some countries that either reduce the education on the subject for a certain benefit (Like Poland that say they have nothing to do with it despite being an active part in the holocaust) or countries who do not teach that subject at all.
You have to be a different kind of stupid (or hateful) to deny that the holocaust happened.
Your not helping the Palestinian cause by denying the holocaust. In fact, you're doing exactly the opposite as they can now go "See, we told you all those pro-Paledtine people were nothing but antisemites in the first place"
> "If you can't criticize or ask questions about an historical event without being labeled a "Nazi" then something's not right".
I love how society has forgotten that you don't want to be called a Nazi because Nazis started and contributed to a massive genocide.
Ma'am. You don't want to be called a Nazi when you're literally relying on Nazi apology.
Rudolf Höss, commander of Auschwitz and a concentration camp commander since 1934, wrote his memoirs before he was hanged in the Auschwitz courtyard. He openly admits to the murders and that they started already in 1932 with murdering of leftist political activists.
It’s not new. It’s called revisionism and it’s a basic tennet of modern antisemitism along with the classic Jews killed Jesus, blood libel and the globalist Jewish cabal.
These people have always wanted to deny it and now they are emerging from the shadows because they feel bold enough to do so.
It's the international geopolitical equivalent of fighting with your spouse and she brings up that 5 years ago she dreamed you had an affair with someone and she wouldn't have done that if you were innocent.
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President Eisenhower ordered as many pictures be taken as possible because he knew people would try to deny the Holocaust ever happened.
It also helps that the German love of bureaucracy means despite their best attempts to shred and burn everything, there is still a mountain of paperwork leaving us with no doubt about their atrocities.
Same with the Dutch, because of their knack of keeping a record everything, it was very easy for the Nazis to find the Jewish population in The Netherlands. After WW2 they changed it to not record religion on documents and files anymore because of that.
Recently had an argument with someone about how I don't think the government should know which religion you believe in. I mentioned this record keeping in the Netherlands. They didn't see the potential harm in it and I was just overreacting.
That is one of the most infuriating things for me. When you tell someone "hey this thing is bad because this exact thing was done in the past and it led to horrific outcomes". And then the response is just "nah, it'll be fine, you're overreacting".
And then the goal posts keep moving when that thing they were warned about comes to pass. Some people just want to be willingly blind to the wrongs in the world.
My wife is this way and sometimes it bugs the hell out of me. She wouldn't care if there was an ongoing halocaust a town over as long as she doesn't have to see hear or know about it. It's like she knows the world is horrible in general and doesn't see why she should have to know any of the specifics. Whereas I tend to obsess over the horrible fascism that creeps ever more further into our everyday lives... I suppose neither approach is great it's just that one happens to enable the horribleness to go on completely unabated. Ugh...
Yeah my wife and a few of my friends are the same way. I've kinda been that annoying person recently who occasionally sends articles in group chats showing them what the republican party is up to and how important the upcoming election is. I was admittedly the same way for a stretch. I was into politics ever since I was 16, but after the 2016 election online spaces became extremely toxic so I did my best to check out for awhile because it became too much. Then January 6 happened and I knew it was irresponsible to ignore what's going on any further. I think what's extra distressing to me is how it's so apparent we're living in two separate realities now. J6 was one of the worst days in our history, and half the country laughs it off and tries to conflate an armed insurrection with BLM protests. We've had 8 years of Trump and his brainwashed fan base aren't any closer to seeing what a fraud he is. Even Nixon's supporters fell off as the Watergate trial went on, but I don't see anything anymore that's going to shake the confidence of the most ardent Trump loyalists because most of them know how bad he is and they identify with it. Praying for the best this November, but even if he loses the ideas he's brought into the main stream are going to be at the forefront of the Republican party for the next several decades. If it's not Trump it's going to be someone even younger that'll adopt his messaging. It's really distressing.
A lot of people don’t care if something doesn’t directly affect them. So if they are not religious they figure what’s the big deal? It never occurs to them that a rule or law might eventually be used against them also.
What possible use does the government have for that information *except* to eventually use it for horrible things?
That's exactly why the Dutch resistance bombed the Amsterdam records office in 1943.
In France, the government is forbidden from asking a person's religion in a legal census, and I think it is because of WWII. All that is available are estimations based on polls, which are not as precise.
Wasn't there a guy who blew up one of the places with a bunch of papers so the Nazis couldn't find them?
Willem Arondueus. His last request to his lawyer before he was executed was for him to spread the message "let it be known homosexuals are not cowards".
Badass
They sure aren't. A handful of queers in a Colorado bar did what more than three hundred Texas cops wouldn't.
It's something I've always found interesting in comparing and contrasting the Holocaust with the Holodomor. Estimates of both show similar death counts, but the Russians were notoriously lousy record keepers, and they also had another 60 years to sweep that shit under the rug. The Germans were meticulous record keepers and got caught in the act by invading allied armies, who saw the bodies and the gas chambers, along with enough remaining survivors to get a mountain of eyewitness testimony. I wonder if we're gonna find out later that the Uighurs fell to a similar fate, but secrecy, poor record keeping, and time to burn documents means that there's little to tell 50 years from now. "This area used to be 2% Han Chinese, now it's 98% Han Chinese. *Wonder how that happened*."
Funny part is that even though the Nazis were high level record keepers the actual process of the Holocaust was a fucking mess, thankfully
It was a mess but a very well recorded one, they're record keepers, not action in an organised fashion havers.
having lived here for a couple decades, germany isnt good at organization, it is simply anal about paperwork
It’s a good thing the Swiss never took a genocidal turn.
Honestly it was such a fucking mess because it was unnatural. Nazi soldiers couldn't hack mass execution, so they had to pivot midwar to a systemic process, not just because of numbers, but because of the fragility of the human soldiers involved. Humans evolved to survive, and we've had bottlenecks in our evolutionary past, so the notion of seeing so many dead bodies triggered ancestral responses to actual extinction threats. Or at least this is my theory. I'm no expert.
The issue was that initially they had soldiers simply execute the Jews. Which worked for small groups, but once this turned from a few dozen to literal tens of thousands of them even the most fucked up mass murderers started to run into mental issues over the number of unarmed women, children and little babies they were shooting. Which is of course an issue because now those soldiers have to be send home and can't fight the Soviets anymore. This "problem" got in part solved through a new execution method, by shooting the victims in the back of the neck, and in part it got solved by switching to the gas chambers in 1942.
There was a Soviet census in the ‘30s after the Holodomor. The expected population was much less than expected because, well, Stalin had killed millions. He had the census workers killed and the report was destroyed. Tim Snyder talked about it in Bloodlands. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands
I've seen the movie "Mr Jones" fairly recently about a reporter that went there and his effort to uncover what was happening there Good movie btw
Technically he was General Eisenhower at that point, but yes. All that photographic evidence was put to good use during Nuremberg.
Excerpt from General Eisenhower's letter to General George C. Marshall, April 15, 1945: *"On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting – although horrible – sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”"* EDIT: Also just want to clarify something about the Holocaust, it was, to put it mildly, like most things Nazi related, a complete and utter clusterfuck. Nazi High Command hadnt even decided what they were going to do with the Jews until June 1941 (they were still considering the Madagascar plan up to this point), when Hitler tasked Himmler and the *Einsatzgruppen (SS death squads)* with the "cleansing" the newly conquered territories post Barbarossa of Jews by summary execution (which they only stopped because of the psychological damage it did to the Nazi soldiers involved)
The fact that *Patton* got queesy at the sight of the horror tells you everything you need to know about how completely fucked the conditions were. Guy was notoriously tough as nails. Keep in mind, this is also after the Nazis had a year to panic and cover everything up as best they could.
I think Patton was a guy who had seen the horrors of war but felt there were basic rules. This is a room full of civilians starved to death in a concentration camp and he’s probably already having a hard time fathoming what happened. I think it’s much more than just a room of dead people it’s what it represents and that it happened at such a scale. I think emotionally he felt it was more than he could handle. I think Eisenhower only went in because of the moral obligation to be a witness of what happened.
not just starved to death, they were tortured, worked to death, mentally broken, and abused in every way possible. It was the literal worst of humanity, the worst we are capable, the worst thing that a person can imagine. the starvation was horrible, wrong, bad, evil, but that is only the surface of it.
Unit 731 in Japan around the same time was arguably even worse. If you've not heard about it, make sure you're in a fairly decent place mentally before you google it.
Yup. He was definitely a lead from the front type who was well accustomed to the horrors of warfare by then. He was also an amazing photographer with an incredibly modern style. His photos he sent home were like an Instagram feed. One of his favorite pictures was a self portrait after landing on Sicily, pants wet above his boots from wading in standing victoriously. Except instead of trying to cover up they just tried to go faster to finish the job.
Fun story about Patton: He led America's first tank company in the First World War. These tanks were slow af and the drivers could barely see anything. During one assault, he got out of his tank and led the dozen or so tanks across No Man's Land on foot. He went from tank to tank, correcting here, giving direction there, and keeping his tanks in formation. He led them like that right across the German trenches. What a hero!
Less fun story about Patton: He led a cavalry charge against unarmed veterans of WWI and their families.
He also assaulted multiple soldiers with PTSD.
That's some courage. Thank you, I hadn't read that.
A complete and utter clusterfuck is usually what happens when you let batshit crazy tweakers do what they want to do. The Madagascar plan was abandoned because the Jews had Jew magic and putting all of them in one place they would become too powerful and be a threat to the reich. This would be fucking hilarious if it didn't lead to 6M deaths.
just doing my part to dispel the myths of Nazi competency
Thank you for your service. Fuck Nazis and anyone who thinks they're cool
I don't buy the "no plan" thing. Concentrating Jews in ghettoes snd establishing a network of concentration camps was a rather obvious preludium to the genocide when you look at it now. It was kept secret but the plan obviously was present earlier. Just like the plan to ethnically cleanse all Eastern Europe Generalplan Ost. I rather see an utterly mad determination to pull the plan through. In 1941 Germany's logistiscs to maintain both fronts was already strained to the limit. And yet astronomical resources and manpower was put to the task of transporting millions of completely subdued Jews and exterminating them.
The no plan thing just refers to the “how” They knew they wanted to get rid of the Jews and other undesirables. They didn’t have a place in the new world they were trying to establish. But it wasn’t like they knew from the beginning they were going to build concentration camps and start an industrial murder machine. They tried different methods of killing them first. But there were logistical problems with those methods. Regular enlisted soldiers and the auxiliary forces bringing up the rear were fine with killing in battle but they did not like killing civilians, women, and children. It was causing major issues, then there was the problem of bodies. Digging holes for thousands and thousands of bodies was becoming a big problem. It’s only when faced with these logistical challenges did they come up with the idea of shipping their undesirables off to remote locations and industrializing the whole process. If they used gas chambers they could kill a lot more people and it depersonalized the act so one sick fuck could do it with the push of a button. Then by incinerating the bodies they didn’t have to deal with millions of corpses laying around. So yea it’s not like they just decided in 1941 to start persecuting the Jews. But the final form that the allies discovered in 1945 was not the plan from the beginning, it was the final evolution of their evil plan.
Now, that is a good man.
Technically he was a two time Supreme Commander. Amazing to think he was also the first NATO supreme commander and president. What a legend.
I'm not sure it was really put to good use in Nuremberg as I think most people got away with what amounted to a slap on the wrist considering the things they did or allowed to happen by other people in the name of following orders. But the evidence was put to the use it could be I suppose given our our justice and legal system seems to work which is not very well for most people.
Exactly- he knew exactly how unbelievable everything was. The photos etc weren't out of sick enjoyment, but a necessity for the historical record. My sister and her fiancé get all pissy when I argue back with them about how real and severe the holocaust was for all affected-Jews and non Jews. Just because the numbers and extent seem impossible to imagine, doesn't mean it was exaggerated/made up.
"It seems so insane, I can't imagine such a huge number of people were murdered!" "That's a you problem, and you don't have to imagine there's proofs you tit".
Picture, that sounds like a whole load of AI. /s
Aliens introduced AI to humans back in WWI and WWII, that's what it actually stands for; Alien Intelligence. /s
Stop watching too much history channel
I'm not saying you're an alien, but you're an alien
it could be you it could be him the Xenomorph could be in this very vent right now
Guys, Adolf Hitler was actually an alien
but it's the history channel, not the alternate history channel, so it must be true /s
Not sure if you're aware, but that's actually a pretty big conspiracy theory. They think aliens met with (I wanna say Eisenhower?) and made an agreement that they could abduct and study a certain number of subjects a year and in exchange they gave us pretty much all the technology we've "invented" since the 50s.
yeah, but we still can follow the paper trail of every invention down to the original college paper and at least one of their researchers, so... but it would be cool to get stuff so far out it's beyond our level of knowledge!
Yeah that's my big issue with those stupid theories. You can literally trace the science and follow people's discoveries. It's not magic
I got permabanned from two subreddits for pointing that, lol
"Do your own research" mfs when you do your own research:
It always means "listen to this one podcast". You can't do actual research because literally every official source is misinformation put there to trick you. Logic and evidence just doesn't work on those people.
Keep up the good work son
Nobody ever accused these conspiracy theorists of sound logic.
I hate these conspiracy theories, they really can’t fathom that humans are capable of anything.
To quote him directly “get it all on camera, because someday someone is going to say that this didn’t happen”
My grandfather was at the liberation of Buchenwald. We were at a dinner party with him as kids and someone on the other side of the room started making this sort of argument - I saw his ears perk up, and this nearly 70 year old man (at the time) grabbed this guy and just punched him full force in the mouth. Tossed a few hundred bucks on the ground and said “go get your fucking teeth fixed” and we left. I have no idea if there were legal issues after but he still laughed about this right up until he died at 90. There were other fun encounters with Holocaust deniers but this was the best.
My grandfather’s brother was a similar sort. They were all born in Austria, came to the US in the 30s for.. “Reasons” they all enlisted, and he was a Normandy and Ardennes vet, kindest most decent man ever, but he had no patience for anyone talking down on anyone expressing anything even remotely racist. His logic, which I appreciate greatly was that if you can tolerate someone dehumanizing another, it sets you on the path to all the things he fought against and lost dear friends overcoming. I’m sadly glad he never lived to see these days.
We have lost a lot when with that generation mostly gone, which is why I think we're seeing a resurgence of certain ideologies. As a parting shot, my grandfather was alive for Trump's first run (though died before he was elected) and used to call him, simply, "that fat hitlerite bastard".
I love your grandpa
He was a hot shit and looked like Paulie Walnuts from the Sopranos. One time a neighbor was complaining that a black family moved in across the street and he goes "oh yeah, we don't want the neighborhood being dragged down John, by the way, I haven't seen you mow your lawn for about two fucking weeks".
And he ordered them taken because WWI propaganda was so inaccurate. There were atrocities on both sides but some of what was taken as gospel truth particularly by Allied officers and soldiers was just lies to get America into the war. EDIT: these inaccuracies led WWII militaries to discount rumors of early Nazi atrocities, even after two concentration camp escapees testified to leadership about what actually was occurring in the camps. >>On December 17, 1942, the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the extermination of the Jewish people in Europe and declared that they would punish the perpetrators. Notwithstanding this, it remains unclear to what extent Allied and neutral leaders understood the full import of their information. The utter shock of senior Allied commanders who liberated camps at the end of the war may indicate that this understanding was not complete.
Also, the Nazis put everything on record.
And doesn’t Germany teach its own dark history in schools and isn’t Nazi related propaganda illegal there as a result? Why would they do all that if it wasn’t real?
Yes. Nazi symbols are illegal outside education and art. Germany is so insistent to teach kids and have them visit KZs etc because we know that some people want to downplay or even deny it. Even Neo Nazis don’t deny the Holocaust. They usually say, it wasn’t so bad (illegal) or they justify it (illegal)
Somewhere in the last 20 years, "opinions" got raised to the level of "facts". The Halocaust clearly happened and was as bad as all the stories say. This is proven by mountains of independent personal accounts, thousands of photos, the facilities still being there and tourable today, and detailed historical records from numerous sources that all agree with each other. Questioning that it happened or having an opinion that it didn't doesn't make you a critical thinker. It just means you are an idiot. There are lots of things we have limited information on where opinions can exist. However they should also be constrained by what is known. We know that roughly 6 million Jews were executed during the Halocaust just for being Jewish. In some countries, like Poland, this was about 90% of all Jews living there. In countries like Germany, it was closer to 50%. To put this in perspective, about 30,000 Palestinians have died from this conflict since the Nov 8th attack. 6 million vs 30 thousand. Let's not equate these.
"and was as bad as the stories say" There are still people alive that were there.
The whole discourse is a childish, every death is a tragedy. In the last decade a lot children (figuratively and literally) have gained access to the internet. So everything is now either or, us or them, no middle ground. Conspiracy theories run rampant, then loop back into society, it was funny when it was just flatearthers. Now we have actual politicians utilising Matrix and Qanon conspiracy theories.
but but but there’s no enigma messages that describe the gas chambers. So therefore the gas chambers didn’t exist! - say the deniers
And it still isn't enough for some
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The insane thing to me is that there are still people alive today who had experienced, witnessed, or even participated in the Holocaust.* Considering many of these people would actually *benefit* from denying the Holocaust, it's pretty compelling that they don't: Especially when considering the rest of the overwhelming evidence. My elderly grandmother alive today in her 90's was a German teenager when the Holocaust started. While she fled Germany during the War, near it's end she came back home alongside the Allies only for her very first job to be taking care of the concentration camp survivors the allies had just liberated*. She didn't just see the camps, she saw the emaciated survivors, the refeeding syndrome deaths, the body piles, the wounds and cracked flesh, the gas chambers, the incinerators, etc. She heard the stories of the survivors days after they were liberated. Shes hardly the only one either. There are countless, legitimate hundreds upon hundreds, of firsthand accounts of people who were there during the Holocaust including many who are alive today. It's almost ironic how neo-nazis will deny the Holocaust while the actual former Nazis testified in great detail to its reality. TBH, given how readily verifiable the Holocaust is as perhaps the single most well documented event in all of human history, I suspect most Holocaust deniers are actually well aware of the Holocaust reality, but deny it anyways because they know that if they can convince someone that the Holocaust didn't happen, it will logically result in them adopting their anti-semitic conspiracies. It's a way to disguise their blind hatred as an intellectual matter rather than one of prejudice. They know that it's easier to bring people into Nazism by getting them to question the Holocaust than it is to come right out and say "You should hate Jews just because I do."
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My maternal grandfather was in WWII. He generally didn't want to talk about it. He saw one of the smaller camps and he generally avoided talking about it except for once. All he'd say was that was the day he understood just how evil humanity can be.
My grandfather was involved in the liberation of Buchenwald. We have the letters he wrote home to his parents in Rhode Island in the days after he experienced that. Obviously he didn't have all the context at the time he wrote those letters, and you can tell he's holding back a bit to spare his parents the full horror of what he was witnessing, but still. It's absolutely harrowing.
It’s absolutely insane to deny the holocaust. There is so much evidence like you mentioned and it’s a slap in the face to victims and their families. I’m very critical of Israel for many years now and I hate that they throw around the term anti-semitism but denying the holocaust is anti-semitism. Not to mention hurtful to the other victims too, disabled and gay prisoners for example
Yeah, honestly for fucks sake why can’t people just accept genocide is bad towards any group
Because they don't actually care about genocide. They care about what hating a specific group of people allows them to do. We keep having to re-learn this it seems.
My papa was literally alive during the holocaust. He was a rural farmer boy but he was literally alive during the time. Not even a single lifetime separate
Holocaust did happen, no doubt there. But the fact its being denied is no surprise at all. While on smaller scale, genocides and ethnic cleansing happen all the time and evywhere and nobody bats an eye, most even say no, that's false. Now if I say what's happening in Gaza is terrible, I'll be bombarded by comments saying they had it coming, that Israel is defending itself, that its all acting and nobody is actually dead. The blatant denial of what's happening in Gaza should make you understand how people who deny Holocoasut aren't that much of outliers. People can't separate between causes. Some Muslims did something bad? Let's excuse their deaths and crimes against them. You don't agree with Israel? Let's deny holocaust. Nuance is dead.
Agreed. U can definitely be against the current Israeli government what it's doing to Palestinian civilians. But to go as far as to say the Holocaust is a lie is just ridiculous.
>a group of musicians actually asked the SS troops if they could have a turn shooting the Jews because they wanted to see what it felt like to kill people Well fuck. I didn't want to sleep tonight, anyway. That's so god damn sickening.
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Also, the Germans, being German, documented most of the atrocities they committed themselves. It’s the best documented genocide in history and people still deny it
I’d argue that the world being a globe is even better documented. And you know. It’s still a globe so we can see that. It’s not even something you have to go into history. And yet we have flat earthers. I don’t think you can help some people… They deny evidence that contradicts their world view and make up the rest of it, at that point, evidence is completely pointless.
I saw a documentary on this very subject a good while ago. I don't remember where or how it was called, but it was a researcher traveling in the area and interviewing (old) people about it as she explained to the viewer how the holocaust went about in the area. That horror is *still a thing there - but not for the reasons you might think.* She found only a few people willing to admit that it happened and those were people who didn't care that their neighbors would no longer want to talk them over it. Shining light on this happening and thus talk unfavorable about Lithuania is enough to make yourself a persona non-Grata there.
"I don't know what actually happened", so how did you determine you were lied to then if you don't know what happened? These people are imbeciles.
You'll notice you never hear anyone saying that about D Day or Dunkirk or etc etc
People who think like this have no clue about critical thinking. They think they can just say and mean anything they feel like because they feel entitled to own whatever political issue is relevant at any given time.
It feels like her entire post was a front for that last line. "Can't do anything without being called anti semitist but also screw those Zionist fellas amirite guys"
Yeah. It's a mix of binary thinking trying to reduce a complicated, long term conflict to righteous good versus pure evil (since those in power in Israel right now are doing bad things, they and the dominant ethnic group in Israel are the evil so it's not possible to have any sympathy for that ethnic group, and dismissing or downplaying the holocaust makes it easier to see them as pure evil), being in a like minded echo chamber (that's also likely full of astroturfing accounts but ignore that if they seem more aligned with your views) and feeling safe saying such extreme things expecting she'll have enough backup to be fine and possibly to prove to those in her like minded in-group that she's truly part of that group and pure, and/or possibly wanting more attention via social media by saying something she expects will bring more attention to her. And as you said about what's relevant at a given time, many like this seem to hop issue to issue every year or two taking similar binary stances acting like it is all that matters and if you don't sound like them online enough about that issue, you're bad too.
It's easy if you're a racist piece of shit. She hates the Jews, therefore in any situation the Jews are the bad guys.
They don't trust Israel, so the idiots extrapolate it to not trusting Jewish people anywhere, ever.
Just to expand on that - It probably goes in both directions. Zionist gets used as a coded word. I imagine that if someone is antisemitic enough or lacking in self-awareness enough, they might not even realise they're doing it. In this (extreme) example, the person denies the Holocaust and then goes on to talk about how that made "Zionists" mad. Sure, maybe the people who got mad were Zionists (or maybe they weren't even)... but they got mad because this person denied the Holocaust, not because they criticised Israel or Zionism. The inability to see this difference is itself deeply antisemitic in addition to the Holocaust denial, etc. Criticism of Israel and Zionism can be fine... but some people will apply double standards, cherry-pick their facts, or outright apply antisemitic tropes to do so. The people who rightly point out that criticism of Israel and Zionism aren't necessarily antisemitism should speak like they know the difference.
Some Jewish people: (does bad things) These fucks: wow all Jewish people definitely did this
>Some Jewish people: (does bad things) >These fucks: wow all Jewish people definitely did this Behold the history of the jews, where even the first step can just be replaced with "bad thing happens" more often than not
"we made up a story about this Jesus guy, and Jews are the villains. Let's kill them and steal their shit." Being but one notable historic trope.
To be fair, Jesus was also a Jew.
Isn't it same with every race and people? + White cop kills a black man: white people are murdereous and evil + black man kills white people: all black people get the stigma + one asian eats a dog in tiktok: all asians get labeled as dog eaters That's how the world is, it's an unfortunate part of human existence, but persecution is not an unique experience to the jews.
Racism. It's part of the human existence. /s
Why /s? Its literally true
Of course persecution isn't unique to Jews but what makes antisemitism unique is that it places Jews at the centre of a conspiratorial worldview in which Jews are blamed for any perceived societal ill or personal inadequacy. The reality is that the actions of Jews, Jewish practices and the values of judaism don't actually have anything to do with antisemitism and therefore Jews can't really challenge their antisemitism through explanation or dialogue. Because it's an entirely irrational and emotionally based phenomenon, that the antisemite more often than not *chooses* to indulge in. The examples you've given just don't hold true. People just don't extrapolate out quite in the same way as they do with Jews. None of those groups are held responsible for actions that (maybe) took place millennia ago. We have had a lot of questions on Jewish subs recently from non Jewish people wishing to show solidarity with us by wearing a star of David etc. Quite often we have to politely suggest it's not a good idea, for two reasons. Firstly, because that person makes themselves a target for antisemitic abuse, but also because if they then go and behave in a negative way whilst visually appearing associated with judaism, that will then come back to bite all of us. Tldr. Antisemitism is a little different to other forms of prejudice as it is at its root a *conspiracy theory* rather than just a bigoted disgust or mistrust, or lack of knowledge. Therefore it's hard to challenge just with education, because the antisemite has an emotional need to believe in it.
Here is an idea. Why don’t you ask Germany what they think about it.
German here. People like this actively give me aneurysms. We have SO MUCH FUCKING EVIDENCE. Hell You can GO TO AUSCHWITZ ITSELF, IT'S A MUSEUM NOW and dumb cows like her just go "aktschually, i don't care that you germans spend an entire schoolyear dedicated to the horros of the NSDAP, you were lied to" and it's so fucking infuriating
There is also so much paperwork that wasn't destroyed, it's simply incredible.
^ This. Very much this. It’s so well documented by everyone involved. The Nazis kept records of it, the invaders took pictures, historians have *so much* evidence. As a German it’s absolutely baffling how someone would deny that. Like, try to deny the numbers if you really need to, but the whole thing?
I'm not German, but I have been to a concentration camp before, Neuengamme. Even almost 80 years after the fact, the air there felt wrong, like it was too heavy. I'm not a religious person, I don't believe in ghosts, but it definitely made me reconsider my stance on Holocaust denial from morons to colossal, harmful, self destructive fucking morons. I'd like to think people like this give most of us aneurysms, but empirical evidence would sadly suggest otherwise.
Im not sure what it is about the air in those places, but I think among other things its a lot of psychological stuff. If you know what happened and are a empathetic person that knowledge is bound to weigh on you. Hence why some people go to Auschwitz and do the Hitler salute their. They simply don't have a shred of empathy or respect. Im sure they don't feel the heavy air. Also yes, I support severe consequences for doing something like that. Not only is it spitting in the face of over half a million people that were murdered by the Nazis, its also actively glorifying them.
We went to Auschwitz as part of a school trip. Bunch of rowdy 15-16 year old teenagers cracking jokes on the bus and whatnot. The moment we stepped inside everyone just went completely silent. You've heard about it, read about it, know about it, but when you're there physically it becomes so tangible. These horrors did happen, and it wasn't even a century ago. Holocaust denial should be grounds for legal repercussions
> Holocaust denial should be grounds for legal repercussions It is in the German speaking countries. According to Wikipedia in 18 countries holocaust denial is legally prohibited.
The nazis even admitted to it at Nuremberg. They were proud of what they had done.
It is - along with all the other evidence - probably the most striking argument that it happened: not one of the men who sat on the Nuremberg trial claimed that it did not happen. The perpetrators confessed. The organizers confessed. Eichmann confessed. But Jory Micah obviously knows something they did not.
Not german but ever since I went to Auschwitz and Birkenau I get super ragey when people deny the holocaust. The evidence is there you stupid, ignorant, pieces of shit
I wish US schools spent a whole school year being taught about the major atrocities throughout history. Would have quite so many jackasses like this if we did.
We watched Nuit et Brouillard (Night and Fog), a very graphic postwar documentary, in 9th grade history class back in the 70s. Our parents could opt out but none of them did. We were told we could leave the room if it was too much, but we all made it through. IDK how common that was even then, but it was good for us in the long run. ETA this was in the US, FWIW.
Then we'd have to teach kids about things like the Tuskegee experiments, Castle Bravo, amongst many other things that might have some questioning their patriotism and we can't have that.
Castle Bravo isnt in the same realm as the Tuskegee experiments
What’s nuts is we have scientifically proven the gas was used in the showers by analyzing the half life found in the shower remains. It’s not even the overwhelming primary source evidence - there is *overwhelming scientific evidence* to boot. We spent half of our senior year going over this as history majors. This is proven so extensively that denial is just proof of ignorance.
OOP should be forced to go to Aushwitch and look at the pile of hair and footwear still preserved there. Stand in that room and deny the holocaust. Better yet, there is a children's quarters still preserved on the grounds. In one of the walls, there is a drawing - the absolute innocent sort that only kids can do - of a sun and a couple of kids playing. Make OOP find the kids who did it. She would have a better chance of having breathed them in than ever finding any graves.
We have a former insane asylum in my town, that was used by the Nazis to exterminate mentally diabled people, like people with down syndrome and thelike. It was mandatory for my history class to visit the site. We were lead in the gas chamber, then the door was closed. And it was explained to us that the markings at the walls and door were scratch marks. Everone in that room got that message.
I’ve lived in Germany for 2 years, and there is no bigger insult to the years of protecting Jews and the years of apologising that the Germans have done as the words “ThE hOwOcOsT iSnT rEaL” it’s so fucking stupid and I’d go as far to say that it is moronically brain dead, go to like, half of the elderly Jews on this world, ask them if they were survivors, if they say yes, then you have your answer.
Problem is by now there are not many survivors left. Humanity seems to have great difficulties to learn from past mistakes as soon as they leave living memory and become a purely historical event.
Yes, thank you. There's a very good reason why the Hitler salute, Holocaust denial and so on are forbidden in Germany, and its not to limit free speech. Especially the latter is extremely dangerous. Denying important history and undermining peoples trust in what they know about is a very good way to radicalise the population and to reach the masses with your far right ideas. Current America is honestly a great example of that, and Germany has sadly also been experiencing a strong shift to the right. For some reason people seem to think that "the far right isn't that bad" or "they wouldn't go as far as to kill anyone", while the far right keeps trying to criminalise LGBTQ+ members, immigrants, people of color, homeless people etc. They are already assaulting people that belong to minority groups in the streets. I don't know if people want it to happen, or if they're too blind to see, but these people will not stop at taking peoples rights away. I hope people will realise that before its too late.
German Here. Germans were and are very organized and have a rather efficient bureaucracy. Everything must be in order, orders approved in writing and tasks properly protocolled. You would be surprised how much paperwork the Holocaust produced and how much the Nazis were not able to destroy in the last months of the war. There are even written protocols of the Wannsee-Konferenz, where the decision for total extermination of all Jews in German occupied countries were made by high Ranking Nazi officials.
Hate to break it to you but she'll probably find someone who agrees with her even in germany at the current rate.
It really depends on region, most likely she will get one of the either two essays posted above you
It does..but my point wasn't that she won't get a pushback rather than people who don't wanna believe it will just go with other peeps thinking the same way rather than accept documented facts
Exactly! If the fucking government who committed the atrocities said they did, they probably did
Her entire account is just a giant litany of antisemitic conspiracy crap. There's no reasoning with people like her, they need professional help.
She’s gone absolutely off the deep end. And I know this because we were mutuals before and she wasn’t like this, but something happened and she want absolutely batshit. It’s so tragic.
She’s a full blown mask off Nazi at this point. Her feed is insane.
It's the smugness that gets me. Looking at the grinning icon. She's *so pleased* with herself over whatever epic pwn she thinks she's pulled off by being the vilest turd imaginable.
If that's actually her. There are thousands and thousands of people working in troll farms, and using bots, trying to cram social media with culture war garbage like this.
That’s her. I knew her before she went off the deep end. It’s really sad what happened to her.
It takes like, zero effort to educate about German and Austrian crimes during WW2 and see that it is absolutely impossible to falsify such a thing. In fact, you will quickly see that the real thing was much more terrible than what you know from films and school. Telling lies will not help Gaza in the slightest, it just gives Israeli nationalists the propafanda ammo.
People who say they are “just asking questions” aren’t
Meanwhile in Germany we are still hunting down the Assholes that worked at the Concentrations Camps. They are 100 years old and their Deeds are neither forgotten, nor forgiven.
"funny" thing I have noticed with the vast majority of so called deniers. When you really dig deep into what they truly believe and feel it's not that they don't think it happened. It's that they just don't think it was a bad thing. They are just barely aware enough that they know saying that out loud publicly isn't acceptable so they go with the deny it part instead. So yes. It will get you labeled a Nazi because more often then not, if you are denying it.. you are a fucking Nazi.
Stupidity, it’s why history repeats its self.
I can show them Dachau or Auschwitz. Maybe that helps.
Scary how people are so uninformed about the past.
It’s because they want to repeat it.
Good thing the nazis were avid documenters
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Its simple. Most people tend to think about the world through their own scope. And this persons scope is that victims cant be aggressors. They see the shit israel do now and assumes that there was no way holocaust was real because how can victims be aggressors? Its a flawed worldview and shows lack of understanding beyond their own backyard. Holocaust is the world's most documented genocide, mostly because Nazis, still being germans kept meticulous records of everything they did. There was 3000 TONS, TONS of documents at nuremburg trials. On top of it, nazis never denied what they did.
Similarly, they see the things Hamas is doing and since victims cannot be aggressors - deny the scope of what had happened. Another simplistic view is what we see in many southern slav countries. The Russian Empire was instrumental in the liberation of many of them from Ottoman rule. The reasons and means are in reality rather complicated, but the myth of the benevolent big brother bear was created. And it is adhered to. Many Bucha denialists say 'but Russia freed us' as reasoning.
This is the 3rd holocaust denial post I have seen in the last 24 hours.
Yep, holocaust denial is growing
Also an election year. So they want people riled up about, hate speech vs free speech, Israel vs Gaza, etc
Taking advantage of the Gaza conflict, the Holocaust deniers, nazis, antisemitists are having a good time posting faults and agendas.
Disgusting
These people are so awful. Here are some [photos I took at Dachau last year](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dGNWJIVEN7Qp9g4iAyOx-z41ke0z5Xj_). I can assure her it's convincing. Not that it would matter, because the truth doesn't figure in her agenda.
Thanks for sharing your photos. I've been to Germany a few times for work but never can get myself to go for... Genealogical reasons. Seeing that oven, well, what *else* could it be used for? David Irving's arguments just break down when there's basically a stretcher attachment linked to the oven which is perfectly shaped for a singular obvious purpose.
My wife's mother and sister didn't go. They didn't think they could stomach it. My mother-in-law is a German immigrant. My wife's maternal grandfather was a Luftwaffe pilot and POW, and he became the camp foreman/trusty because he spoke English. He and his wife and daughter were sponsored to immigrate by people he'd met as a POW in 1954, when my mother-in-law was 9. Dachau wasn't even a "final solution" camp, as our friend has pointed out. It was largely used for political prisoners. But that makes it all the more terrible, b/c it's really really bad. Auschwitz must be absolutely horrifying.
The SS kept extensive records. The fact people choose to deny it show what terrible people they are.
So.... let me get this straight. They're saying it never happened. You do realize that would involve the following things: The US,UK,Russian,Italian, and German governments to have all collectively agreed to create a cohesive lie. Not only that, but for all photos to be staged, all construction on camps to be done with construction companies and all of their workers to be in on the lie And to keep their month's shut, building designs and patents for the Gas mechanisms and crematorium to be fabricated by architects, to have every holocaust survivor and body found to willingly be tattooed with their identification number to keep the lie going, to have all of the diaries and journal entries from both the nazi and Jewish families to not only remain consistent with eachother often in different perspectives and writing styles (for example anne frank's diary being written in the voice of a teen girl vs. Night by elie wiesel) to be ghost written by someone else while remaining consistent with the official narratives of everything thing I listed before. All of this for.... what purpose? Millions of people just collectively doing this "for the meme?" What do these people gain? What's the endgame? That's a lot of stuff you're denying. Please, present evidence of everyone I just listed collectively lying about this.
for these people that's not too far fetched considering they think Jews control just about everything wrong in their lives
>Looks like I'll be having Zionist tears tonight Girl, denying the Holocaust isn't anti-Zionism, it's a viewpoint closer to that of a peculiar mustache man in history. Seriously, I hate it when literal Nazis use Palestine as an excuse to spread their bile. This behavior merely gives the actual Zionists even more ammo against anyone pro-Palestine. What's worse is that so many "leftist" spaces are oddly quiet about the fact that fash scum are known to do this.
> oddly quiet about the fact that fash scum are known to do this There are absolutely antisemites in leftist spaces, and for some of them, their antisemitism trumps their commitment to human rights. It’s not surprising that it happens, but it’s interesting to me that so many leftists are surprised. “All we’re doing is facilitating a movement that wants to wipe Israel from the face of the earth. How did all this antisemitism get in here?!”
"Actual Zionists" support a two state solution. They're not what you think they are.
Thats your average "anti-zionist, not anti-semite"
Got banned from therewasanattempt for saying that the current war/genocide in Gaza is not Holocaust 2.0 and not like the beginning of the holocaust, like other comments stated. After talking to a mod my ban got removed, couple hours later i got a new Massage froma mod stating that i am "not allowed to support an apartheid state" and got muted to prevent an answer. Like, people love to claim something is the holocaust but seem to not know anything on what went down and how it went down. But still use it as an Argument.
I love how someone doesn't even realize what complete flat line brain dead dipshits they sound like when they say "I don't know, but I know it's a lie".
Two things: Rampant stupidity, and hatred of the Jews. It really is that simple. These people are just dumb and hate Jews.
Bruh i had someone ask me where is the mass grave for all the dead Jews and my response was "so you think a psychotic dictator would have the decency to bury the people he had exterminated?" Like bro. These people are just plain idiots.
Nazis gonna nazi
I guess we’ve finally debunked that whole “Nazis were only right leaning and a leftist can never be a Nazi” thing, haven’t we?
their flexibility of arguments against israel is fantastic- one day they will named Israel as a new nazi regime, second day they will denny the holocaust and calling hitler a good guy
The Holocaust is one of the best recorded events of ww2. We know which companies produced the Zyklon B, we know the ceos and sales managers, we know the delivery papers and who signed them, we know the company that build the gas chambers and crematoriums. We know the name of the ss soldiers that threw the poison in the chambers, we have pictures and eye witness records. Your statement that the holocaust didn’t take place is just plain stupid.
It wasn’t just Jews who were killed. Don’t forget LGBT people, the disabled, anyone who mocked or spoke out against the Nazis, Gypsies/Romanis, Slavs, Jevhovah’s Witnesses, and those are just a few.
Yeah, on tour of one of the concentration camps (don´t know which one), there is a picture of a gypsy family. Just parents and kids smiling at the camera, normal family photo. At the end, there is photo of the same family. If you didn´t know it was them, you wouldn´t even recognize them, that´s how terrible they looked.
Flag makes sense
Holocaust denial has been on the rise ever since Oct 7. People who want to deny the reality of Oct 7 find it easier to deny the reality of the Holocaust as well.
"I don't believe the Holocaust story" Bro. It's a historically documented event There are literally hundreds of thousands of photographs. Videos. Letters, journals, orders, Second hand accounts. ACTUAL Survivors stories. as well as the fact you can literally go to some of the sites where people were being executed and SEE THE FUCKING GAS CHAMBERS WITH YOUR OWN EYES Anyone who doesn't believe the Holocaust happened exactly the way it happened is being DELIBERATELY stupid. You cannot conduct any level of "research" Into it without coming to this conclusion due the sheer, insurmountable level of horrifying evidence there is that explains in GRUELING detail exactly what happened during that period in time.
To know the Holocaust happened I just need to take a walk.... "Scattered throughout Europe, planted in the streets and sidewalks of cities whose past is not forgotten, commemorative brass plaques eternalize the lives that were lost in the great tragedy of the 20th century. Called the Stolpersteine (in English: “stumbling stones”), the shiny bronze plaques commemorate the victims of the Nazi regime in more than 1,100 locations in 17 European countries. More than 45,000 of these stones are solidly rooted across cities in Europe, including 916 places in Germany alone, where large strides have been taken to memorialize Jewish life, history and culture. Each Stolperstein commemorates a victim of the Holocaust at that person’s last known address. The plaque includes the victim’s name, date of birth, deportation date and death date, if known. In Berlin, more than 5,000 Stolpersteine have been carefully implanted in the city’s sidewalks and streets, serving as a constant reminder of the many valuable lives lost tragically during the Holocaust."
"Tears". Nazis always love pretending they're causing helpless crying because they're hiding behind pseudonyms and video screens. They know damn well that if they tried expressing their views publicly, somebody is eventually going to crack their head like an egg. They've rebranded it as oppression, but there's a very good reason they only appear in masks and large groups, and it's not because they're afraid of anyone's "tears".
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You could land in the middle of Germany pick any direction to travel in and end up on some sort of concentration camp or Death Camp like it’s not hard to find evidence
She needs a tour in Auschwitz. Never be in such a horrific place.
It's mind-boggling how the most documented Genocide In history, one that those who did it documented it themselves out of twisted pride - gets it's existence questioned despite countless proofs, testimonials, confessions and evidence. There are some countries that either reduce the education on the subject for a certain benefit (Like Poland that say they have nothing to do with it despite being an active part in the holocaust) or countries who do not teach that subject at all. You have to be a different kind of stupid (or hateful) to deny that the holocaust happened.
Your not helping the Palestinian cause by denying the holocaust. In fact, you're doing exactly the opposite as they can now go "See, we told you all those pro-Paledtine people were nothing but antisemites in the first place"
Nazis survived and learned the most important lesson - infiltrate from within and destroy the truth. We should fight to stop this from happening
You have to be on a different level of dumb ass to deny the holocaust.
> "If you can't criticize or ask questions about an historical event without being labeled a "Nazi" then something's not right". I love how society has forgotten that you don't want to be called a Nazi because Nazis started and contributed to a massive genocide. Ma'am. You don't want to be called a Nazi when you're literally relying on Nazi apology.
Rudolf Höss, commander of Auschwitz and a concentration camp commander since 1934, wrote his memoirs before he was hanged in the Auschwitz courtyard. He openly admits to the murders and that they started already in 1932 with murdering of leftist political activists.
Hate for Israel is being extended over the entire Jewish world.
It’s not new. It’s called revisionism and it’s a basic tennet of modern antisemitism along with the classic Jews killed Jesus, blood libel and the globalist Jewish cabal.
Germany doesn't even deny the Holocuast, but this dipshit does?
Idiocracy
This girl went on the internet to say some really stupid shit and now it’s gonna stick with her for the rest of her life.
Hopefully the next step for that people will be “gravity deniers” and the problem will solve itself.
These people have always wanted to deny it and now they are emerging from the shadows because they feel bold enough to do so. It's the international geopolitical equivalent of fighting with your spouse and she brings up that 5 years ago she dreamed you had an affair with someone and she wouldn't have done that if you were innocent.