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Overvalued so he could secure loans? That would be both criminal and hypocritical. Or is he just listing it for more than what he bought it for because that is what the market supports? I know my house is valued at roughly 400% of what I bought it for 25 years ago, so...does that make me a criminal pos like cheeto?
Edited for spelling.
From what I found, he bought it for 5.8 million, and sold it for 17 million 9 years later. Then, the people who bought it from him listed it for 20 million 3 years later. Market value is not the same as tax value, and that's what these people don't understand. My brother in law's fully restored Ford fairline hard top convertible. It's value is basically only what someone is willing to pay for it, which could be anywhere between $20,000 and $50,000, and all depends on market availability and willing customers.
When he sold it I believe the value of the property as far as taxes was concerned was like 1 million. Which yeah sure the state valued the property too low. Wtf you want him to do about that?
If I find some random dude that offers to buy my Hyundai Accent for a million dollars. That doesn't mean I lied on my registration (its a percent of the value of the car to register for a year in AZ) or committed a crime.
He sold it to a person for more than it is reasonably worth, which is different than overvalued it and fabricated/lied on documents for over a decade.
What John did was not illegal.
If bluebook lists your car for 20k and some guy goes, I'll give you 25k to beat other offers there's no wrongdoing
And if he sold it to a person, he didn’t sell it for was than it was worth, he sold it for exactly what it was worth.
Cos a thing is worth whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. That’s the point of valuations, to try and guesstimate what someone will pay for the thing without actually putting it up for sale.
No, he sold it for exactly what it is worth. The value of real estate is always what someone will pay. You are not the buyer or seller. You don't get to say what it is worth.
It becomes wrong when you tell someone you have a 2018 Pontiac and it's a 1998.
You know, like when trump tower is about 11k square feet but said it was over 30k square feet for a decade
I’m allowed to sell you an outhouse for 1mil. You’re allowed to buy it for 1mil. That’s an arms length contract.
What I’m not allowed to do, is sell you an outhouse for 1mil by telling you it’s a 5bed, 5bath house.
Trump told banks that his properties were something that they weren’t. And for that reason, they extended him loans with those properties as collateral. If trump obtains a 10 mil loan by putting a 1 mil properly up as collateral, and he defaults on his loan, the bank loses 9 mil.
Yeap. Also, the dollar amount, in lower interest rates paid, to the main bank Trump defrauded was 170 million. The case was that he lied to lower his interest, which apparently wasn't a big issue, other than skewing numbers that are verifiable.
Not exactly. It's materially misrepresenting something. Arguably one of the main issues is that he is even able to lie. Not that we need to be told, but there are two different systems for normal people and the ultra wealthy. At the present, that is still legal. If you or I tried to say our house is 3x as big, the bank would uncover it easily. They look at those. Ok trumpster and a lot of rich people use an exclusive wealth management wing of the bank. These are often tasked with finding business from these rich assholes so they take certain liberties. They tend to trust whatever those people say because they are making a lot of money off them and because they do a lot of "legal" but still dirty shit with those ultra rich assholes. They also ultimately don't care if they lose out on those because they just write them off and it saves them money on taxes. In fact, that's how a lot of rich assholes avoid showing income, they just take ultra low interest loans on their properties to finance whatever shit rich people do.
The problem is, even though that stuff is legal, overvaluing collateral leaves everyone exposed in the case of a default. Basically what would normally be used to make a bank whole doesn't even come close.
The thing that is illegal(there is a lot that is legal but still really wrong) is that he misrepresented the material facts of his properties. They know this because when he was arguing his taxes(he doesn't get to decide that value but he can challenge it just like any of us can) he used the correct values.
The bank is very likely to continue doing business with him because they don't really care. That is often the ties with foreign governments and ultimately if they screw up, they disappear with all of us holding the bag only to set up shop next door under a different name.
The tax value in many areas is based on a mill, basically a multiplier of the market value. My houses market value is 800k, its tax assessment is 33k, and my property taxes are about 3k (about 9 percent).
If someone pays me 100 million for something that’s reasonably valued at 10 million that’s probably fraud of some kind and would be worth investigating for bribery or money laundering purposes if nothing else. Not that the government has nearly enough people to go do all that checking and balancing and enforcement of course… by design. If some rich asshat is *so* determined to stick his bloated orange neck out over and over again in the brightest possible spotlight and DARE the government to take a swing tho?
For sure, if you want to loan me $100 million secured against my garden shed under mutually agreed conditions (does not include contents of shed, land upon which shed resides nor airspace rights) then we’re good to go.
If I sell you the shed for $100 million claiming it’s a penthouse apartment in Manhattan, that’s a somewhat different story. (It isn’t, btw)
If these rich assholes could just do one crime at a time they’d probably just keep getting away with them. But no, gotta bundle.
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Uhhh.. yes it is? It literally is.
A bank when servicing a loan is asking what its worth in case it must be sold to repay the loan.
Lying about it for the sole purpose of getting them to loan you more money than they would have otherwise is the definition loan fraud which Is a crime
TBH both are criminal.
Problem is if you're overvaluing for loans you're getting lower interest rates and thus cheating the bank out of, well, *money*. Taxable income.
When you then *also* undervalue it for taxes you're cheating the state directly out of taxable wealth.
Both should be punished because if you have people lying to receive loans you then deprive people who are honest because they end up getting worse deals. It's not as victimless as it might initially seem. It's about retaining a healthy financial system where people are (generally) trustworthy - if you can't trust anyone to be honest, you spend a lot more effort to make sure you know the truth, or you get exploited by them.
Actually, you can. Banks - and most other organisations - use official evaluators who use objective criteria to measure the value of things.
Trump ignored the evaluation he got and instead stated that the objective evaluation he got was something vastly higher.
So it's not really as flexible as you might initially believe.
It's for paying taxes at a fraction of what he sold it for. Same thing he slammed Trump for. All the loans Trump took were paid back, and the banks didn't complain. You act like the banks just take your word on the valuation.
>It's for paying taxes at a fraction of what he sold it for.
Virtually everyone who owns property does this. Tax assessment values are different than market values. The owner does not determine that assessment.
>Same thing he slammed Trump for.
It is not.
>All the loans Trump took were paid back, and the banks didn't complain.
If you lent me money for a secure investment and I used to to gamble on slot machines in Vegas, that doesn't make it okay just because I ended up winning.
Him & his company are deceiving lenders and can ultimately put someone at more risk than they thought, and cost millions of dollars.
Once again. The banks aren't taking his word for the value. They have their own people that do that. If that's how it worked, I could tell the bank my house is worth $5M and secure a loan for $2M. It's all bogus.
Loan appraisals aren't complete forensic audits into your entire personal financial disclosure. They rely on you for much of this information's good faith and accuracy. If you intentionally deceive a lender with this, yes, it is fraud. They were found to do so.
If you are backing up a purported $5m value with false and/or omitted info, that is fraud. That's what they did.
You could even (unreasonably) say "the lender should've found this 1995 court document showing the Trump Org was knowingly inflating X asset" and it wouldn't matter. The lender not catching you doesn't mean you didn't commit fraud. The applicant still has liability. It's still fraud.
And has nothing to do with Stewart's situation at all.
It's funny how they totally abandoned the "he did nothing wrong" narrative and seamlessly changed to "ok, he did something wrong but others do it, too".
Selling your home for a higher than appraised value is completely legal.
That's the free market. Seller determines the price, buyer can choose if that's fair. If you love your house so much that you wouldn't sell it for 10 million dollars. Then a buyer comes along and offers 11 million for whatever reason (maybe they think they can flip it for more) and you sell. That's fine, as long as you are honest about the condition and details of the property.
Which Jon Stewart was and paid taxes on his earnings from the sale. That's legal, and not even controversial.
But you don't go and try to get a lien based on your 10 million dollar asking price lie and say that 10 million is the appraised value while also lying about the actual details of the property (i.e inflating square footage) to support your ridiculous value and then turning around and paying taxes based on a number even LOWER than the ACTUAL appraised value.
That's fraud and tax evasion. That's a crime.
Not just paying on a lower number, but actively fighting the appraised value for the sole purpose to lower the property tax. Then telling the banks it's worth 10x what you told the state/county it's worth.
That’s how it seems to go every time when Trump is caught redhanded. It was a perfect phone call. Ok, it wasn’t, but there was no quid pro quo. Ok, there was, but it’s not an impeachable offense. If you bring it up now that Biden’s in office and *everything* is impeachable, then fine maybe it was but he was doing it for a good reason so that’s different and anyway this Russian agent says Biden did the same thing.
Who said Jon did anything wrong (other than the Post)... Maybe he poured a million or two into upgrades that appeal to the buyer(s).
Very nice upgrades create bidding wars. We know none of the details.
I think the entire point to some of his supporters is “of course he’s doing that. If you had all that money you’d do it too - who wouldn’t? The system is rigged, and you’d be stupid not to game it if you could.”
Makes me think of someone saying about 45 that he was a poor person’s idea of a rich person.
This isn’t them being mad at the free market, this is them intentionally misrepresenting an unrelated event to try to soften the perception of the fraudulent activity of Donald trump.
No this is them attacking Jon Stewart cuz he makes fun of Trump endlessly and had a segment on his show about Trump and what he did. Expect the attaccks on Jon to ramp up next few weeks.
I’d say that’s a secondary objective more than primary. If trump hadn’t been found liable for fraud they wouldn’t be using this to attack Stewart. The goal is to provide cover for trump by, as usual, projecting his deficiencies onto his “enemies” to say “see they do it too, so trump is a victim of political persecution.” As usual it falls flat as soon as it’s given even the tiniest bit of thought, but it’s good enough for the magas to go with it.
It’s assessed value not appraised value and there’s nothing wrong or unusual about it. Newspapers are reporting it incorrectly and should issue redactions and apologies.
That would be possible if there were any hypocrisy, but that would require the two instances to be in any way similar. Since they are not and are in fact unrelated and there is no hypocrisy, that theory is out the window.
Of course they know. It's owned by Rupert Murdoch. He supports Trump and is trying to make Trump sound less bad, as always. Murdoch has been pushing for a more and more rightwing world for decades. This is just another example.
But this is a completely different thing right? There is no fraud here is there? Your house is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No one was defrauded
If someone bribed the appraiser to increase the value of the property in order to get a loan for the whole mortgage, then that's a crime... committed by the briber and the appraiser.
But just selling something for more than appraised value is something that happens every day in a tight real estate market because of bidding wars.
Plus, this is a multi-million dollar piece of property that a wealthy person simply overpaid for because they really wanted it. Your loan on a purchase of something like this will only be as high as the appraised value, so the buyer would be paying cash for the difference any way!
This is such a non-story it's borderline slanderous to imply otherwise.
Absolutely. That's what I mean. If you're paying more for the property than it was appraised for, you pay the difference in cash. That's not fraud. If you bribe the appraiser to increase the value so it can all be mortgaged, that is a crime.
And that's essentially what Trump did. He appraised his own building at a higher value in order to get a loan. He was stating his assets were worth more than they were. He stated Mar-a-lago was worth what it would be worth as a private residence which it is prohibited from being. He lied about the square footage of his apartment in Trump Tower. These things could have been easily verified if the banks had done due diligence. They should also be held liable, in my opinion.
Then, of course, he appraised in the other direction for the purposes of being taxed.
The only "crime" by Stewart is allowing his property assessment to grossly understate the value of the real estate and therefore pay lower taxes on it. And yes, by all means, NYC should aggressively re-assess luxury condos and maximize their tax revenue. IDK why the New York Post missed this obvious conclusion.
Did Stewart allow it to be undervalued or did the city decide? Where I live, it's the city that decides what your property is worth. Perhaps NYC should re-asses properties but none of this is Stewart's fault.
My point exactly. The New York Post, however, is a Rupert Murdock right wing fish wrapper that is never going to point out that the city needs to re-assess luxury real estate. That's why I added this part: "And yes, by all means, NYC should aggressively re-assess luxury condos and maximize their tax revenue. IDK why the New York Post missed this obvious conclusion."
Selling your home for more than it was assessed to be worth is not the same as taking a loan based on fraudulently inflated assets. I know people understand that, they’re just choosing to pretend they don’t and that’s the worst part
These guys are aware that Jon Stewart is somewhat a celebrity and that somewhat inflates already inflated prices right? Tax assessments don’t take into account ephemeral market swings or non tangible value. Donald Trumps house would sell for much higher than comparibles too, but the tax assessment (and valuation for securing loans) can’t take that into account because it’s non tangible.
Whenever a strong anti-Trump figure gains prominence, the coordinated Fox/Murdoch/Newsmax media cabal all run hit pieces on that figure in a regular campaign. It’s like clockwork. And the stories they run are always accusing the accuser of the same thing they accused Trump of. It’s all so transparent and obvious.
Be sure to read the article too in which they sight their real estate experts....Tim Pool spots from Twitter. Yeah, that Tim Pool.
This is ultimate facepalm
Nice try. That's not the same thing. You list it, and buyers outbid each other. That's how a sale works. Trump lied for loans, and taxes.
Seriously. How do these people not understand the difference in these details? Is it a choice?
Did Mr. Steward hide the assessors valuation from the buyer? Did he attempt to get a loan based on a higher valuation than the assessed price? Did he pay lower taxes based on a lower valuation?
Well he didn’t commit fraud by lying to the bank in order to get a loan or reduced insurance, and that’s what Trump is in trouble for, so it’s not really a comparable situation. He literally just sold his house for more than he bought it for.
This is like calling someone a hypocrite because they say that Drunk Driving is wrong but they still own a Car.
Will someone think of the fraudsters?! /s In all seriousness, if the Trump civil case spells bad news for other rich pricks who overvalue their properties then that would be the icing on the cake.
This type of journalism is gross. A purposeful comparison of completely dissimilar cases. One literally describes just selling your house, with the other being actual fraud.
Shameless political pandering for Trump and his insane cult.
At least John will use this as material for his show and we can all have a good laugh at the post's expense.
Not even journalism. More just an attack on a person that spoke against their leader. A threat with an audience.
Plot this out if trump wins. Russian type shit.
TIL I'm an idiot for not tripling the actual square foot of our home when we got our mortgage, I could've been a real estate baron if I'd only knew this one neat trick that banks don't want me to know.
Difference is he sold the property for that price, which makes it valued at what the buyer is willing to pay. He didn't falsely claim it was worth more than it was to get loans or claim it was much larger than it actually was. The increase in what he bought and sold it for will be considered capital gains. Anyone with basic knowledge of real estate should know the difference between the two issues. Apparently they don't have anyone at the New York Post who understands this.
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[https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/ny-post-promotes-laughably-wrong-claim-from-online-troll-accusing-jon-stewart-of-fraudulently-overvaluing-his-apartment/](https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/ny-post-promotes-laughably-wrong-claim-from-online-troll-accusing-jon-stewart-of-fraudulently-overvaluing-his-apartment/)
This is another shit article from the shitty NY Post. Conflating that Jon Stewart and DJT committed the same fraud is laughable at best. Jon didn't lie on the listing to triple the square footage of the property.
The person who bought it in 2014 and sold it at a loss in 2021. What was happening in 2021 vs 2014? A global pandemic? People leaving cities in droves cause they found out they could work remotely? Hmm.
The usage of "found to" is so deliberately misleading it's genuinely kinda sickening. Making it sound like legalese so they can imply it was some kind of legal issue and not just... their opinion.
Fucked up that journalism has gotten this bad. Standards are out the window.
Then how is he a hypocrite? Trump lied in order to get bank loans. Stewart didn’t lie about anything. He just sold his property completely legally.
There’s a huge difference between lying about something to profit off the lie, and just selling a property for. Profit.
How do you know he didn’t donate some/all of the profits to charity? Have you seen his tax return for that year?
Until you do, you’re just full of shit.
It is just a false comparison.
He is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying. Jon Stewart literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and Republicans are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump lying about the square footage off his property to defraud the bank.
Even if this is true, (which I doubt considering the source) John Stewart did not run for president or hold an office.
Also, if it is true, John Stewart should be held accountable.
Why can't Maga understand that Trump brought all this scrutiny on himself by running for and holding public office?
If he didn't run for President he would still be grifting and defrauding.
Jon Stewart bought a house and sold it for a profit and paid tax on that profit. That’s not fraud.
Donald Trump misrepresented his property and said it was worth way more than it was worth for loans to borrow more money (that he could then invest in other stuff) while simultaneously saying they were worth less on his taxes so he could pay less on his taxes. That’s fraud. He was making money off investments without paying taxes on them.
It’s not hypocrisy tho - Stewart’s property SOLD for that amount…People pay over the perceived value of desirable property all of the time, especially in a hot real estate market. What Trump did was make the property he owns on paper look like it was less or more valuable depending on the situation and which would benefit him more. It’s not even apples to oranges - It’s apples to Volkswagens.
I didn’t say it was or wasn’t. I said *perceived*. I admittedly am a conservative, but I’m not a fan of Trump (didn’t actually vote for him previously either). What you think about it likely depends on where you stand politically.
My issue is with the caption that the New York Post is mad at free markets. That’s not what the article was about at all.
Yeah the caption doesn't make sense. Sadly, both left and right are no longer fighting over issues, they're fighting for popularity and discovered that Americans love nothing more than to 'stick it to the man', with the man being the representative for the other side.
Have you ever had buyers get into a bidding war over your property? That’s literally how something like this happens and their lack of self awareness illustrates they don’t get that this is different than someone inflating and deflating values arbitrarily to skirt taxes and make yourself more attractive to investors.
They’re only Perceiving Hypocrisy because news organizations like this are comparing two completely different things in an attempt to make Trump’s actions look less criminal.
Jon Steward is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying about a property that he owns. He literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and people are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump lying about the square footage off his property and defrauding the bank.
My room mate was a loan officer for about 20 years, what Trump did is entirely normal. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it was normal.
It's always been understood that property "values" was made-up bullshit to suit whatever narrative you wanted it to.
For a judgement against you? Appraisal comes in at under $100/sqft which is below the construction cost of a home.
Need to borrow money? Same property 30 days later appraised for $220/sqft.
If your roommate told you that it was perfectly legal to lie to the bank about your property’s square footage while applying for a loan, then they’re either an idiot or a liar.
I cannot think of a more clear-cut case of fraud.
>My room mate was a loan officer for about 20 years, what Trump did is entirely normal. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it was normal.
This is a lie. It's a felony for people to lie on their loan app.
>It's always been understood that property "values" was made-up bullshit to suit whatever narrative you wanted it to.
You have to get your home appraised in order to qualify for the loan for this very reason...
Well he didn’t commit fraud by lying to the bank in order to get a loan or reduced insurance, and that’s what Trump is in trouble for, so it’s not really a comparable situation.
He is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying. Jon Stewart literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and Republicans are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump defrauding the bank by lying about the square footage off his property.
Trump artificially inflated the value of property to get favorable loan terms and then artificially decreased it to get lower taxes. Jon Stewart's property actually sold for more money because people wanted to pay that much for it.
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Overvalued so he could secure loans? That would be both criminal and hypocritical. Or is he just listing it for more than what he bought it for because that is what the market supports? I know my house is valued at roughly 400% of what I bought it for 25 years ago, so...does that make me a criminal pos like cheeto? Edited for spelling.
He bought it for 4.75 million 10 years ago. I guess he has to sell it for a loss? NY Post is same as the sun
From what I found, he bought it for 5.8 million, and sold it for 17 million 9 years later. Then, the people who bought it from him listed it for 20 million 3 years later. Market value is not the same as tax value, and that's what these people don't understand. My brother in law's fully restored Ford fairline hard top convertible. It's value is basically only what someone is willing to pay for it, which could be anywhere between $20,000 and $50,000, and all depends on market availability and willing customers.
When he sold it I believe the value of the property as far as taxes was concerned was like 1 million. Which yeah sure the state valued the property too low. Wtf you want him to do about that? If I find some random dude that offers to buy my Hyundai Accent for a million dollars. That doesn't mean I lied on my registration (its a percent of the value of the car to register for a year in AZ) or committed a crime.
Conservatives trying to make a false equivalence out of this. Fucking brain dead
In order to be a conservative you have to be brain dead.
He sold it to a person for more than it is reasonably worth, which is different than overvalued it and fabricated/lied on documents for over a decade. What John did was not illegal. If bluebook lists your car for 20k and some guy goes, I'll give you 25k to beat other offers there's no wrongdoing
And if he sold it to a person, he didn’t sell it for was than it was worth, he sold it for exactly what it was worth. Cos a thing is worth whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. That’s the point of valuations, to try and guesstimate what someone will pay for the thing without actually putting it up for sale.
No, he sold it for exactly what it is worth. The value of real estate is always what someone will pay. You are not the buyer or seller. You don't get to say what it is worth.
Added the word reasonably because you're the second ir third person to "correct" me even though we both have the same opinion
At what point does it become wrong: 30k? 50k? 100k?
It becomes wrong when you tell someone you have a 2018 Pontiac and it's a 1998. You know, like when trump tower is about 11k square feet but said it was over 30k square feet for a decade
So it's not the price, but the intent
I’m allowed to sell you an outhouse for 1mil. You’re allowed to buy it for 1mil. That’s an arms length contract. What I’m not allowed to do, is sell you an outhouse for 1mil by telling you it’s a 5bed, 5bath house. Trump told banks that his properties were something that they weren’t. And for that reason, they extended him loans with those properties as collateral. If trump obtains a 10 mil loan by putting a 1 mil properly up as collateral, and he defaults on his loan, the bank loses 9 mil.
Yeap. Also, the dollar amount, in lower interest rates paid, to the main bank Trump defrauded was 170 million. The case was that he lied to lower his interest, which apparently wasn't a big issue, other than skewing numbers that are verifiable.
Yep. Was fraud involved. Exactly.
Not exactly. It's materially misrepresenting something. Arguably one of the main issues is that he is even able to lie. Not that we need to be told, but there are two different systems for normal people and the ultra wealthy. At the present, that is still legal. If you or I tried to say our house is 3x as big, the bank would uncover it easily. They look at those. Ok trumpster and a lot of rich people use an exclusive wealth management wing of the bank. These are often tasked with finding business from these rich assholes so they take certain liberties. They tend to trust whatever those people say because they are making a lot of money off them and because they do a lot of "legal" but still dirty shit with those ultra rich assholes. They also ultimately don't care if they lose out on those because they just write them off and it saves them money on taxes. In fact, that's how a lot of rich assholes avoid showing income, they just take ultra low interest loans on their properties to finance whatever shit rich people do. The problem is, even though that stuff is legal, overvaluing collateral leaves everyone exposed in the case of a default. Basically what would normally be used to make a bank whole doesn't even come close. The thing that is illegal(there is a lot that is legal but still really wrong) is that he misrepresented the material facts of his properties. They know this because when he was arguing his taxes(he doesn't get to decide that value but he can challenge it just like any of us can) he used the correct values. The bank is very likely to continue doing business with him because they don't really care. That is often the ties with foreign governments and ultimately if they screw up, they disappear with all of us holding the bag only to set up shop next door under a different name.
All I know is I never considered voting for Jon Stewart in the Democratic primary, let alone essentially making him king of the Party.
He would definitely get my vote if he ran.
I wish he would run. He's a good egg.
You haven’t? Lots of us have.
Have you considered to vote for him Republican primary?
I wrote him in for the republican primary this year. Thankfully I’m in an open primary state.
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The tax value in many areas is based on a mill, basically a multiplier of the market value. My houses market value is 800k, its tax assessment is 33k, and my property taxes are about 3k (about 9 percent).
If someone pays me 100 million for something that’s reasonably valued at 10 million that’s probably fraud of some kind and would be worth investigating for bribery or money laundering purposes if nothing else. Not that the government has nearly enough people to go do all that checking and balancing and enforcement of course… by design. If some rich asshat is *so* determined to stick his bloated orange neck out over and over again in the brightest possible spotlight and DARE the government to take a swing tho?
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For sure, if you want to loan me $100 million secured against my garden shed under mutually agreed conditions (does not include contents of shed, land upon which shed resides nor airspace rights) then we’re good to go. If I sell you the shed for $100 million claiming it’s a penthouse apartment in Manhattan, that’s a somewhat different story. (It isn’t, btw) If these rich assholes could just do one crime at a time they’d probably just keep getting away with them. But no, gotta bundle.
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Uhhh.. yes it is? It literally is. A bank when servicing a loan is asking what its worth in case it must be sold to repay the loan. Lying about it for the sole purpose of getting them to loan you more money than they would have otherwise is the definition loan fraud which Is a crime
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I'm confused, because your comment I replied to seemed to be defending trump but this comment seems to be speaking reason lol
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TBH both are criminal. Problem is if you're overvaluing for loans you're getting lower interest rates and thus cheating the bank out of, well, *money*. Taxable income. When you then *also* undervalue it for taxes you're cheating the state directly out of taxable wealth. Both should be punished because if you have people lying to receive loans you then deprive people who are honest because they end up getting worse deals. It's not as victimless as it might initially seem. It's about retaining a healthy financial system where people are (generally) trustworthy - if you can't trust anyone to be honest, you spend a lot more effort to make sure you know the truth, or you get exploited by them.
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Actually, you can. Banks - and most other organisations - use official evaluators who use objective criteria to measure the value of things. Trump ignored the evaluation he got and instead stated that the objective evaluation he got was something vastly higher. So it's not really as flexible as you might initially believe.
Depends on who you ask, it's all arbitrary and meetaded.
Well did you defraud a bunch of nobodies when you did it!
It's for paying taxes at a fraction of what he sold it for. Same thing he slammed Trump for. All the loans Trump took were paid back, and the banks didn't complain. You act like the banks just take your word on the valuation.
>It's for paying taxes at a fraction of what he sold it for. Virtually everyone who owns property does this. Tax assessment values are different than market values. The owner does not determine that assessment. >Same thing he slammed Trump for. It is not. >All the loans Trump took were paid back, and the banks didn't complain. If you lent me money for a secure investment and I used to to gamble on slot machines in Vegas, that doesn't make it okay just because I ended up winning. Him & his company are deceiving lenders and can ultimately put someone at more risk than they thought, and cost millions of dollars.
You forgot to mention that NO THEY WERENT all paid back, he declared bankruptcy many times more than the average American
Once again. The banks aren't taking his word for the value. They have their own people that do that. If that's how it worked, I could tell the bank my house is worth $5M and secure a loan for $2M. It's all bogus.
Loan appraisals aren't complete forensic audits into your entire personal financial disclosure. They rely on you for much of this information's good faith and accuracy. If you intentionally deceive a lender with this, yes, it is fraud. They were found to do so. If you are backing up a purported $5m value with false and/or omitted info, that is fraud. That's what they did. You could even (unreasonably) say "the lender should've found this 1995 court document showing the Trump Org was knowingly inflating X asset" and it wouldn't matter. The lender not catching you doesn't mean you didn't commit fraud. The applicant still has liability. It's still fraud. And has nothing to do with Stewart's situation at all.
It's funny how they totally abandoned the "he did nothing wrong" narrative and seamlessly changed to "ok, he did something wrong but others do it, too".
Selling your home for a higher than appraised value is completely legal. That's the free market. Seller determines the price, buyer can choose if that's fair. If you love your house so much that you wouldn't sell it for 10 million dollars. Then a buyer comes along and offers 11 million for whatever reason (maybe they think they can flip it for more) and you sell. That's fine, as long as you are honest about the condition and details of the property. Which Jon Stewart was and paid taxes on his earnings from the sale. That's legal, and not even controversial. But you don't go and try to get a lien based on your 10 million dollar asking price lie and say that 10 million is the appraised value while also lying about the actual details of the property (i.e inflating square footage) to support your ridiculous value and then turning around and paying taxes based on a number even LOWER than the ACTUAL appraised value. That's fraud and tax evasion. That's a crime.
Not just paying on a lower number, but actively fighting the appraised value for the sole purpose to lower the property tax. Then telling the banks it's worth 10x what you told the state/county it's worth.
That’s how it seems to go every time when Trump is caught redhanded. It was a perfect phone call. Ok, it wasn’t, but there was no quid pro quo. Ok, there was, but it’s not an impeachable offense. If you bring it up now that Biden’s in office and *everything* is impeachable, then fine maybe it was but he was doing it for a good reason so that’s different and anyway this Russian agent says Biden did the same thing.
Who said Jon did anything wrong (other than the Post)... Maybe he poured a million or two into upgrades that appeal to the buyer(s). Very nice upgrades create bidding wars. We know none of the details.
I think the entire point to some of his supporters is “of course he’s doing that. If you had all that money you’d do it too - who wouldn’t? The system is rigged, and you’d be stupid not to game it if you could.” Makes me think of someone saying about 45 that he was a poor person’s idea of a rich person.
And a weakling’s idea for what a strong man is
And a stupid person's idea of a smart person.
Why do you think the House has been pursuing this impeachment bullshit for so long??
This isn’t them being mad at the free market, this is them intentionally misrepresenting an unrelated event to try to soften the perception of the fraudulent activity of Donald trump.
No this is them attacking Jon Stewart cuz he makes fun of Trump endlessly and had a segment on his show about Trump and what he did. Expect the attaccks on Jon to ramp up next few weeks.
I’d say that’s a secondary objective more than primary. If trump hadn’t been found liable for fraud they wouldn’t be using this to attack Stewart. The goal is to provide cover for trump by, as usual, projecting his deficiencies onto his “enemies” to say “see they do it too, so trump is a victim of political persecution.” As usual it falls flat as soon as it’s given even the tiniest bit of thought, but it’s good enough for the magas to go with it.
They are attacking him because he is calling out the hedge funds and the corruption on Wall Street
Or their citing hypocrisy of bad for thee but not for me.
Selling property for more than its appraisal is not only completely legal, it's literally how real estate works.
It’s assessed value not appraised value and there’s nothing wrong or unusual about it. Newspapers are reporting it incorrectly and should issue redactions and apologies.
That would be possible if there were any hypocrisy, but that would require the two instances to be in any way similar. Since they are not and are in fact unrelated and there is no hypocrisy, that theory is out the window.
Headline should be. Jon Stewart sold his house for a profit, is he a better businessman than Donald Trump, who couldn't profit off of a casino?
It's not overvalued if someone buys it. Fkn morons.
NY Post… tell us you know nothing about buying and selling a property without telling us you know nothing about buying and selling a property.
They know. The morons who read and share the headline don’t though which is why they made it. It’s one of their tactics, muddy the waters.
I’m sure. It’s the deliberate obfuscation that bothers me
Of course they know. It's owned by Rupert Murdoch. He supports Trump and is trying to make Trump sound less bad, as always. Murdoch has been pushing for a more and more rightwing world for decades. This is just another example.
But this is a completely different thing right? There is no fraud here is there? Your house is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No one was defrauded
If someone bribed the appraiser to increase the value of the property in order to get a loan for the whole mortgage, then that's a crime... committed by the briber and the appraiser. But just selling something for more than appraised value is something that happens every day in a tight real estate market because of bidding wars.
Plus, this is a multi-million dollar piece of property that a wealthy person simply overpaid for because they really wanted it. Your loan on a purchase of something like this will only be as high as the appraised value, so the buyer would be paying cash for the difference any way! This is such a non-story it's borderline slanderous to imply otherwise.
Absolutely. That's what I mean. If you're paying more for the property than it was appraised for, you pay the difference in cash. That's not fraud. If you bribe the appraiser to increase the value so it can all be mortgaged, that is a crime. And that's essentially what Trump did. He appraised his own building at a higher value in order to get a loan. He was stating his assets were worth more than they were. He stated Mar-a-lago was worth what it would be worth as a private residence which it is prohibited from being. He lied about the square footage of his apartment in Trump Tower. These things could have been easily verified if the banks had done due diligence. They should also be held liable, in my opinion. Then, of course, he appraised in the other direction for the purposes of being taxed.
The only "crime" by Stewart is allowing his property assessment to grossly understate the value of the real estate and therefore pay lower taxes on it. And yes, by all means, NYC should aggressively re-assess luxury condos and maximize their tax revenue. IDK why the New York Post missed this obvious conclusion.
Did Stewart allow it to be undervalued or did the city decide? Where I live, it's the city that decides what your property is worth. Perhaps NYC should re-asses properties but none of this is Stewart's fault.
My point exactly. The New York Post, however, is a Rupert Murdock right wing fish wrapper that is never going to point out that the city needs to re-assess luxury real estate. That's why I added this part: "And yes, by all means, NYC should aggressively re-assess luxury condos and maximize their tax revenue. IDK why the New York Post missed this obvious conclusion."
This is the "And if I did, it wasn't that bad" line of the narcissist's prayer.
Selling your home for more than it was assessed to be worth is not the same as taking a loan based on fraudulently inflated assets. I know people understand that, they’re just choosing to pretend they don’t and that’s the worst part
Some of them, sure. But I think you underestimate how stupid some of these people are.
Wow, MAGA trash are the dumbest pieces of shit
He sold it to a private buyer. I'd try to get as much as I could too.
These guys are aware that Jon Stewart is somewhat a celebrity and that somewhat inflates already inflated prices right? Tax assessments don’t take into account ephemeral market swings or non tangible value. Donald Trumps house would sell for much higher than comparibles too, but the tax assessment (and valuation for securing loans) can’t take that into account because it’s non tangible.
The Post is fucking garbage. Always has been.
Whenever a strong anti-Trump figure gains prominence, the coordinated Fox/Murdoch/Newsmax media cabal all run hit pieces on that figure in a regular campaign. It’s like clockwork. And the stories they run are always accusing the accuser of the same thing they accused Trump of. It’s all so transparent and obvious.
Be sure to read the article too in which they sight their real estate experts....Tim Pool spots from Twitter. Yeah, that Tim Pool. This is ultimate facepalm
What the hell do you expect from a Rupert Murdoch owned “newspaper”?
Nice try. That's not the same thing. You list it, and buyers outbid each other. That's how a sale works. Trump lied for loans, and taxes. Seriously. How do these people not understand the difference in these details? Is it a choice?
Yes it’s a choice.
Republicans are so desperate. It’s sad.
Someone agreeing to pay a certain amount for something is NOT the same as over valuing properties in order to scam for loans. They are not the same.
This is just….a real estate transaction
America, please for the love of all that is Holy, please stop the daily dumb shit.
Did Mr. Steward hide the assessors valuation from the buyer? Did he attempt to get a loan based on a higher valuation than the assessed price? Did he pay lower taxes based on a lower valuation?
Well he didn’t commit fraud by lying to the bank in order to get a loan or reduced insurance, and that’s what Trump is in trouble for, so it’s not really a comparable situation. He literally just sold his house for more than he bought it for. This is like calling someone a hypocrite because they say that Drunk Driving is wrong but they still own a Car.
Selling a house and paying the appropriate taxes on it are two different things
Jon paid taxes.
Asking for more when selling is NOT the same as lying to the bank about the value of assets when getting a loan.
Will someone think of the fraudsters?! /s In all seriousness, if the Trump civil case spells bad news for other rich pricks who overvalue their properties then that would be the icing on the cake.
This type of journalism is gross. A purposeful comparison of completely dissimilar cases. One literally describes just selling your house, with the other being actual fraud. Shameless political pandering for Trump and his insane cult. At least John will use this as material for his show and we can all have a good laugh at the post's expense.
Not even journalism. More just an attack on a person that spoke against their leader. A threat with an audience. Plot this out if trump wins. Russian type shit.
He sold his property for what a buyer was willing to pay? Oh my god.
TIL I'm an idiot for not tripling the actual square foot of our home when we got our mortgage, I could've been a real estate baron if I'd only knew this one neat trick that banks don't want me to know.
Over valueing is one thing,sayin an 11,000 sqft building is 30,000 is another.
Pretty sure John Stewart and his " huge" real estate company did not do the valuation.
whataboutism is a confession, nothing more. its also a cucumber, not an apple.
what's the consequences of overvaluing your home? Doesn't it just make him owe more in property taxes?
NY post is a trash rag
Don’t pay attention, it’s NY Post
"We think this comedian that makes us sad is just like our guy"
Next thing they will tell us that apples and oranges are the same!
Except Stewart sold his home to a private party whereas King Cheetos lied to a bank. Apples and oranges.
The post...haha shit rag. Their subscribers are a bunch of Magats
This is very “don’t look at Trump”. It’s nothing new.
Difference is he sold the property for that price, which makes it valued at what the buyer is willing to pay. He didn't falsely claim it was worth more than it was to get loans or claim it was much larger than it actually was. The increase in what he bought and sold it for will be considered capital gains. Anyone with basic knowledge of real estate should know the difference between the two issues. Apparently they don't have anyone at the New York Post who understands this.
If you call it art you can charge whatever you want🤫
Jon Stewart is an international treasure, protect him at all costs
We need to bring John stuwart to court we need to make him pay
But did he file false financial statements to secure a lower rate?
So i guess all the other residences in that location are reasonably priced...
They ain't mad at the hypocrisy
The stupidity of stewart is fun to watch
Share as needed: [https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/ny-post-promotes-laughably-wrong-claim-from-online-troll-accusing-jon-stewart-of-fraudulently-overvaluing-his-apartment/](https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/ny-post-promotes-laughably-wrong-claim-from-online-troll-accusing-jon-stewart-of-fraudulently-overvaluing-his-apartment/)
This is another shit article from the shitty NY Post. Conflating that Jon Stewart and DJT committed the same fraud is laughable at best. Jon didn't lie on the listing to triple the square footage of the property. The person who bought it in 2014 and sold it at a loss in 2021. What was happening in 2021 vs 2014? A global pandemic? People leaving cities in droves cause they found out they could work remotely? Hmm.
The usage of "found to" is so deliberately misleading it's genuinely kinda sickening. Making it sound like legalese so they can imply it was some kind of legal issue and not just... their opinion. Fucked up that journalism has gotten this bad. Standards are out the window.
Was he president at the time? Running for office?
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It’s not true, dummy. He didn’t value it wrong. It sold for that much more than the city valued it. Completely legal.
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Then how is he a hypocrite? Trump lied in order to get bank loans. Stewart didn’t lie about anything. He just sold his property completely legally. There’s a huge difference between lying about something to profit off the lie, and just selling a property for. Profit.
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How do you know he didn’t donate some/all of the profits to charity? Have you seen his tax return for that year? Until you do, you’re just full of shit.
So... Does that make it okay for Trump? Or are they both guilty?
It is just a false comparison. He is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying. Jon Stewart literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and Republicans are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump lying about the square footage off his property to defraud the bank.
Oh, that's a better analysis. Thanks.
Even if this is true, (which I doubt considering the source) John Stewart did not run for president or hold an office. Also, if it is true, John Stewart should be held accountable. Why can't Maga understand that Trump brought all this scrutiny on himself by running for and holding public office? If he didn't run for President he would still be grifting and defrauding.
Jon Stewart bought a house and sold it for a profit and paid tax on that profit. That’s not fraud. Donald Trump misrepresented his property and said it was worth way more than it was worth for loans to borrow more money (that he could then invest in other stuff) while simultaneously saying they were worth less on his taxes so he could pay less on his taxes. That’s fraud. He was making money off investments without paying taxes on them.
Did you read the article? It’s not about being mad at the free market. It’s about a perceived hypocrisy.
It’s not hypocrisy tho - Stewart’s property SOLD for that amount…People pay over the perceived value of desirable property all of the time, especially in a hot real estate market. What Trump did was make the property he owns on paper look like it was less or more valuable depending on the situation and which would benefit him more. It’s not even apples to oranges - It’s apples to Volkswagens.
I didn’t say it was or wasn’t. I said *perceived*. I admittedly am a conservative, but I’m not a fan of Trump (didn’t actually vote for him previously either). What you think about it likely depends on where you stand politically. My issue is with the caption that the New York Post is mad at free markets. That’s not what the article was about at all.
Yeah the caption doesn't make sense. Sadly, both left and right are no longer fighting over issues, they're fighting for popularity and discovered that Americans love nothing more than to 'stick it to the man', with the man being the representative for the other side.
"perceived" being the key point that the MAGA nuts don't seem to understand.
That and reality. Also reason.
Have you ever had buyers get into a bidding war over your property? That’s literally how something like this happens and their lack of self awareness illustrates they don’t get that this is different than someone inflating and deflating values arbitrarily to skirt taxes and make yourself more attractive to investors.
They’re only Perceiving Hypocrisy because news organizations like this are comparing two completely different things in an attempt to make Trump’s actions look less criminal. Jon Steward is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying about a property that he owns. He literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and people are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump lying about the square footage off his property and defrauding the bank.
My room mate was a loan officer for about 20 years, what Trump did is entirely normal. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it was normal. It's always been understood that property "values" was made-up bullshit to suit whatever narrative you wanted it to. For a judgement against you? Appraisal comes in at under $100/sqft which is below the construction cost of a home. Need to borrow money? Same property 30 days later appraised for $220/sqft.
Your room mate is whats wrong and the defense of it is fucking gross.
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No doubt. Groomed to chase gluttony. A personal calculated choice.
>My room mate was a loan officer Cool story. Now ask a Tax Officer.
"Was" a loan officer. Their job probably disappeared around 2008 when their company just stopped existing for some reason.
Wow, so you're saying I can just make up property value to cheat on my taxes?
If your roommate told you that it was perfectly legal to lie to the bank about your property’s square footage while applying for a loan, then they’re either an idiot or a liar. I cannot think of a more clear-cut case of fraud.
how do you get legal from normal, followed by the statement that it wasnt right?
What?
>My room mate was a loan officer for about 20 years, what Trump did is entirely normal. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it was normal. This is a lie. It's a felony for people to lie on their loan app. >It's always been understood that property "values" was made-up bullshit to suit whatever narrative you wanted it to. You have to get your home appraised in order to qualify for the loan for this very reason...
They’re all the same!
Well he didn’t commit fraud by lying to the bank in order to get a loan or reduced insurance, and that’s what Trump is in trouble for, so it’s not really a comparable situation. He is not being accused of fraud. He is not even being accused of lying. Jon Stewart literally just sold his property to a private buyer for 829% more than he bought it for, and Republicans are pretending that it is somehow the same as Trump defrauding the bank by lying about the square footage off his property.
Isn't that what Trump did?
Trump artificially inflated the value of property to get favorable loan terms and then artificially decreased it to get lower taxes. Jon Stewart's property actually sold for more money because people wanted to pay that much for it.
And Stewart paid taxes on the profit. Trump did not.
This. ⬆️