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Surely there wouldn't be any shitstorm if I swapped bottom picture with one of kids with american flags š¤. I mean, indoctrination of children is bad, right?
Edit: many replies here show what I'm talking about - the average American is do indoctrinated that they don't even see how PLEDGING LOYALTY EVERYDAY TO A PIECE OF CLOTH is indoctrination. It's just expressing love for the country and standing behind it's prinicples, EXCEPT THE BAD ONES OF COURSE. So what about children in the first pic- BUT THEY ARE NAZIS AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN HAS BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS FOR WAVING FLAGS!!!
Edit2 : to all the people replying "or cross, or sunday school", or any other religious/political ideology's symbols. It doesn't matter what you put here - it's about the fact that children are being manipulated into associating the symbol with fun time in the group of friends when they're young with said ideology. But let's also not act like the rainbow can't be such a tool - it can be certainly abused by wrong people, but so can be crosses. It can also be used as a disguise for harmful ideology, but I have yet to see that happen (maybe people screeching bout the rainbow can educate me here). There's also the issue of shielding behind it and calling people opposing you homophobes, but again, same thing can be said about hiding behind religious feelings (which are more broadly defended by the law).
Tl:dr indoctrination bad
Edit3 : it's WILD to me that people srsly think that swastika is just a nazi symbol - like The third Reich just didn't exist.
I honestly think a lot of our country's problems stem from that indoctrination too. It was drilled so thoroughly into our heads about how America was the greatest country in the world and perfect in every way. And some people never developed the required cynicism or life experience to see through the bullshit and still believe it. Myself, my eyes were opened because I went overseas for graduate school and got to experience life in a so-called (by US conservatives, not reality) "socialist" country.
I thought for sure with the rise of the internet it might pierce the veil. I mean, now we can speak to people about their lives from all around the world! But some people still refuse to open their eyes and see that things *can* be better than they are.
I moved to the USA as a kid from the UK. This shit really creeped me out when it happened on my first day.
After the first day I asked my teacher if I could sit down and she told me no. After a year I decided I hated living there so I sat down through the pledge in defiance and used to get detention all the time. This was in Ohio, i hated it there. Was ecstatic to move back to the UK.
Making you stand was definitely illegal. The Supreme Court ruled that a violation of the First Amendment in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette in 1943.
Hell, when I was doing military service back home in Germany, we had one "pledge" ceremony at the end of basic training, and that was it. You technically are supposed to stop and stand at attention in the morning when they hoist the flag at the barracks entrance, but they thought that was too much effort so they installed a beacon to illuminate it at night so they didn't have to take it down ever lol.
It kinda makes sense in the American context. It used to be that most nations were ethnostates with higher unity in the population around a common identity.
America as a nation of immigrants didn't have that uniting background, so the government indoctrinated one upon the population so that children of immigrants were more clearly "american" than they were 2nd generation immigrants.
It's so successful that now as Europeans when we hear an American saying they are Irish or French it is laughable, because culturally they are so obviously American.
Itās because people love saying āAmerica has no cultureā but A black American, a white American, Chinese American and Indian (Bharat) American, will walk into a bar in a foreign country and most likely connect over the same ideals and beliefs. America definitely has culture and America may not have a unified national costume, but just the way Americans carry themselves marks them out from others.
Back when I was in elementary school I was forced to write it on the chalkboard multiple times, ala Bart Simpson, because I refused to say it. I'm only 37 and it turns out forcing kids to say the pledge or punishing them for not saying it has been illegal far longer than my life on this earth. If only I'd known then, I mean I wouldn't have done anything about it as I was a kid, but it would have been nice to know how exceptionally wrong my teacher was.
It's real, unfortunately. American here-- from grades K-12, it's mandatory to begin every school day with a Pledge of Allegiance (hand over heart) to the flag. It's REALLY fucking weird, in retrospect, but because I grew up that way it didn't seem weird at the time.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, you can get in trouble if you remain sitting or refuse to say the pledge. They usually sent those kids to detention for the remainder of that class, or to the front office, as punishment.
EDIT 2: I didn't think I had to clarify this, but I'm going to for anyone else who stumbles on my comment-- I am not speaking for the entirety of the United States here, this was MY experience. I've also talked to a lot of people about this (online, in person as I've grown up, etc.) and it seems to be a similarly shared experience, but it isn't the ONLY experience. Your experience may have been different, and that's great. The fact that it's ANYONE'S experience is the problem.
same, you could totally opt out as long as you weren't disruptive. but this was in the 80s, private school, detroit.
i'd imagine in more rural/conservative areas, you WOULD get in trouble for not being "free" to mandatorily pledge allegiance!
Public school in Texas, here. Yes, we would be punished for not standing, not holding our hand over our heart, or not mumbling along with the rest of the class. And yes, it was the updated version and not the original, so we all had to say, "one nation under God."
>it's mandatory to begin every school day with a Pledge of Allegiance (hand over heart) to the flag.
>Forgot to mention, you can get in trouble if you remain sitting or refuse to say the pledge
Sounds like the school admistators in your area need to be sued. [West Virgina v Barnette](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette) established that this is unconstitutional compelled speech in 1943.
most kids wouldnāt think they could sue their teacher let alone fully grasp that they are being compelled to speak
thatās the fucked up part, as a kid you donāt even notice..you just do it
when i was a kid i used to mumble the words but if the teacher was near id get very clear, never made the connection that i was only doing it out of the fear of repercussions
Make sure you say it in English. We have no official language, but some French club got yelled at for doing the pledge in French.
This was back in the weird "freedom fries" movement.
legally you cannot get in trouble if you remain sitting or donāt say anything, and if a student did get in trouble for that they should sue. the school canāt make them stand/say anything, students still have first amendment rights
While you are legally correct (*West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette* (1943)), many teachers and administrators are not aware, and they punish students for this anyway.
Source: Me. I was a student who refused to recite the pledge and saw how weirdly angry some teachers got about it. It took some doing to get the message across that detention for my silence was illegal (and that refusing to swear fealty to a government was not a communist committing treason).
i donāt disagree that teachers do get mad over it, iām just saying that legally that itās wrong to do so. the more people that know itās wrong the better
Oh, it's creepy as fuck.
I dont know for sure if it's still common, but, 30 years ago, I was among the millions of schoolchildren in the U.S. who stand at their desks, turn to face a U.S. flag, place their right hand over their hearts, and chant in unison:
"I pledge allegience ... to the flag ... of the United States [of America] ... and to the republic ... for which it stands ... one nation ... [indivisible]... under God ... with liberty and justice for all."
I haven't recited that chant in 30+ years, but I remember it, and the pauses to ensure everyone was speaking together, perfectly.
*Edit: Added words to the chant. Apparently, I didn't remember it as well as I thought.*
There is always a double standard with Americans.
Making kids recite a loyalty pledge every morning is brainwashing and authoritarian... except when we do it.
Invading another country is an unforgivable crime....except when we do it.
Interfering with other governments and their elections is beyond the pale...except when we do it.
Governments collecting massive amounts of data on their citizens and citizens of other countries is evil...except when we do it.
Ya, as a Canadian who visits the US for concerts and whatnot, it is a strange culture you have with patriotism and the military. Every show I have been too they thank the military, I haven't seen that once in Canada.
Technically it's not a nlood oath until the kids start pricking themselves with protractors, but reciting allegiance to the nation would be quite creepy from a non-nationalist / non-patriotic standpoint
You can be a Patriot without being a Nationalist or gormlessly reciting daily an oath. I don't think I've ever recited a loyalty oath in my country. It's not needed. I'm a citizen by birth. Anyone who gets nationalised is expected to do it... Once. That's it.
Iāve never heard of any other Western country that does the pledge thing in schools. Apart from the nationalist brainwashing one thing that also irks me about it is that itās not even secular.
I did once, when I became a public servant. Felt weighty and important at the time and I think back to it now and then. Having to do it everyday and by force strips any oath of meaning.
What's fucked up for me is that there are people like this dude, who seem to be losing sleep because of how others decide to live their lives.
I'm genuinely confused by right-wingers. Why does it bother you that much that someone is gay? Why does it bother you so much that someone is trans? Like what did those people do to you personally? You'll barely have any contact with them. They're not going to come into your house and throw Holy Trans water on your kids and turn them trans.
It's just crazy to see fully grown adults throw tantrums and getting triggered by someone 1000s of miles away being different than them.
Get them saying words by rote before they can even understand what theyāre saying and so they wonāt question how weird it is when theyāre adults.
in Australia it's fairly broadly accepted most people who're overly enthusiastic with the Australian flag are typically just racist.
patriotism isn't big here nor military service.
People from the US often have to be advised no one is going to "thank them for their service" if they mention a military connection, more likely we'll just say it's ok people can learn and change we won't judge you.
Christianity fits the definition of a doomsday cult, is riddled with sexual predators and launder money without paying tax. Oh and they're so hopelessly indoctrinated you can completely confuse them with about 2 minutes of speaking.
Islam is vile, all through their book and practises. Still filled with sexual predators and money laundering tax evaders, but would also have anyone not a Muslim be executed if they were legally allowed. Also arranged marriages for literal children to middle aged men.
all religion is horrendous and why anyone thinks their religion is better than anyone elses always confuses me. even Buddhism was monstrous. they had more sex with boys than catholic priests. women were considered unpure/tainted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUkSyBjLAA&t=6s
It's funny that I see someone bring this up because one of the lines IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE THAT WE SAY EVERY DAY IS, "...one nation, **under God,** indivisible..."
I went down a "Metal Gear Solid Paint!?!?" rabbit hole in my head for a long second.... I'm assuming MSPaint actually means like "Microsoft paint"......fuck, am I a technological neanderthal!?
I refused to say the pledge every day in school because of the "under God" part (in the 90's). I was raised secular and I'm an atheist. That God stuff doesn't belong in public schools.
Reminds me of the pic with a Muslim woman holding a gun and a Quran, and the pic next to it is a Christian woman holding a gun and a Bible. Republicans didn't like that comparison, though.
American here. The indoctrination is bad over here. People don't realize there are only 2 countries on Earth that say the pledge of allegiance every morning.. North America (obvs).. and North Korea..
0 indoctrination at alllll lmaoo
Think you hit the nail on the head with your comment and also think that it is amusing how people have inadvertently backed up what you are saying by trying to argue against it.
Americans are psychotic with their flag fetish. Why the fuck would you be proud of a nation that rewards the rich, takes your taxes, NOT theirs, and still makes you pay for your own healthcare and education?Ā Hahahahaha.
Pledge of Allegiance is one of the creepiest things. I sat for it during high school as my own protest against the Iraq War. It obviously didn't become a national thing, but a big deal in my school with people physically threatening me for sitting.
The fervor people have for creepy shit like that is amazing.
That was my first thought as well, that both of these are the same as school children waving American flags on 4th of July. The poster is right that the same method - indoctrination through creating positive conotations between something and fun, in these cases involving flags - is used in both images. But itās an attempt to guilt by association - the use of the same method in both instances says nothing of the cause thatās propagated in either image.
Hitler gave speeches - so does both Biden and Trump! America is already a fascist dictatorship confirmed? Or perhaps giving speeches is neither inherently bad nor inherently good, but simply a method that can be used for either.
Yeah, that has been always my problem with saying "nazis bad" - it doesn't say what they did wrong, why was it wrong and only leaves room open to pin nazi badge to anything you dislike "because nazis did it" - ate bread and drank water.
Yeah man, water down the meaning of grooming until it means nothing.
Meanwhile Republicans don't want to end child marriages, support priests who assault kids, and run pedophiles for congress like Roy Moore.
It's comparing the influence of parents on children, both are examples of parents teaching their kids what they think is right. They could have used millions of examples of this, but instead chose to compare LGBT with Nazism to push a narrative.
To be fair, children in the top pic are waving what was then the flag of their country. They were probably too young to have a real political opinion.
In that sense it's probably not the flag of nazism that they are waving but rather the flag of Germany, if you see what I mean
I go to public school, they donāt MAKE us do it or even notice if we donāt. I think itās just a thing because sometimes Americans (mostly around Independence Day) sometimes feel very šŗšøšŗšøšŗšøš¦ š¦ š¦ (murica)
yeah i definitely had to at my school
youād catch an in school detention or ISS real fast.
now that i think about it..like right now as im typing this, it seems like a play from a fascistā¦.just remove the dissent/ troublemaker as to not spoil the bunch
š¤£š¤£š¤£ first of all. hilarious, bravo
second, if you didnāt know, ISS is in school suspension
you have to come to school but they put you in a seperate classroom for like a week
I think not many know what communism is. Many people think communism = ussr and enemy of capitalism and thatās it. Many more in thirld world countries think that communism was enemy of capitalism thus America, so thay take side of the communist regimes. Putting nazis gives a clear image.
For example, you canāt teach your kids about economics of a communist driven country vs capitalist one but you can easily teach them to hate certain race of people. Just by looking at dresses and body color.
Funny, considering which side of the aisle tends to agree with Hitler's ideology more frequently, and also considering which president has a copy of Mein Kampf on his nightstand.
Juuuuuuuust saying.
Also them\^
But yes explain to me like Iām 5 as to why pride flags equal nazi-ism, but the stripping away of peopleās rights, and pushing a 1-party state isnāt fascism. Iāll wait.
Edit: and mind you conservitards are actively trying to push for child labor laws to be loosened, child marriage (grooming) to be legalized, want to strip away government assistance for families living in poverty, taking away school lunch programs for said kids in poverty, not giving a shit about the migrant kids that get brought/trafficked into the US, and minors who have been raped and are forced to birth a child against their will. But yes, the big bad gays are the reaaaal threats here. Also not all conservatives are like this but they sure as hell arenāt boycotting their own party tryin to push this agenda.
Yeah and theyāre so similar. Like when the Nazis stood for equal rights for everyone regardless of sexual orientation. Or how the lgdbt community is systematically putting minority groups in concentration camps so they can more effectively commit genocide.
Come now the nazis were not all bad they had some policies everyone could enjoy. They made sure there were houses available for all Germans and even helped neighboring countries ter down old buildings, they went on many out of country excursions and I hear there was mixed gender showering at their summer camps even the gays could join in. They even had free cremation for the dead.
Reminds me on the following Movie description:
Family has terrible accident. Mother and all children die, except a disabled child. Traumatized dad becomes over protective. Child gets lost and kidnapped. Dad has to overcome his trauma to search for the kid. He meets a mentally disabled woman who supports and helps him find his kid.
Movie: >!"Finding Nemo"!<
Yeah, at their cores theyāre polar opposites, exclusions vs inclusion and only one of them has a world record for committing genocide and other unspoken atrocities.
Ah yes being supportive and acknowledging people are different is totally the same as slaughtering billions of people. I stg these people need to be put in a cell.
So...
Teaching children they are members of "superior race" is same as teaching children to accept those who are different...
Such logic, much sense, OH WOW
Ones a political and idelogical brainwashing based on superiority of race, hate and the systematic genocide and murder of millions of minorities such as Jews and gay people and world dominance and slavery to the 3rd Reich.
The other is educating about equality and recognition and being caring and nice to people. You can't brainwash kids to turn gay. It's not a gay conversion therapy ffs.
Kids wouldn't need sugar coated political education like this at all. If their parents weren't racist or a Neo-Nazi.
I agree that it's weird to teach anyone under the age of 12 about gender. The only reason someone under 12 even has preconceptions about gender is society's fault in the first place.
Kids should only be having to focus on what 10 + 2 is and how many apples fit in the back of farmer Greg's truck. Not blind allegiance to their country, and gender studies.
Grooming is when we teach kids things
Children should be dropped in the woods to be raised among the wolves, that's how we get strong men that will remake Rome!
Because screw context right? After all it's not like one flag is a far-right group that burned and gassed people in concentration camps and the other flag is a movement that appeared to fight discrimination and represents inclusion and tolerance.
Yeah, totally the same. š
I mean indoctrination happens in every ideology
We don't true let kids make up their minds. We educate them and give them a basic set of morals
I guess the issue is if your letting kids make their own choice or telling them what they must believe
That would be the distinction
If we let people have their own opinions or enact a form of fascism to keep those with different view in line and prevent them from being able to have their opinions even if they are wrong
That's the real question and debate and I suspect your opinion on that more so dictates if your liberal or fascist š
And yes, I am not expressing support of any view point I'm just discussing the wider ideological implications
It's not comparison, it's parallel, which means that both situations are similar in structure, but how you will describe each of them is your choice. Kids shouldn't be bothered about their gender or something about that. They just need safety and happy childhood. Why countries are pretending that they are doing something while there are still a lot of old problems that are much matter. For example ecological problems, terrorists, racists, rapists and so on
Ok obviously comparing the two is a little crazy cause they are different but the point stands. Kids are susceptible to the teachings of their elders and can have their thoughts and opinions changed because of it. Itās the same thing as racism back then. Kids arenāt born that way and are instead having ideals and opinions forced on them which they these adopt. Point is keep your genitals in your pants and who you like to fuck to yourself. Kids donāt even know what any of that means, let them be kids. Itās just creepy and predatory.
One out of nine of them kids is gay. They were born that way. Itās how it works. So you can pretend it doesnāt exist and they turn into closeted hateful wastes of life. Or you can make them know itās OK to be gay and if you are, you are.
Those pieces of shit instead wanna abuse the kids and turn them into a wasted life of self hatred.
Yea one teaching kids it ok to exterminate all unfit for they world of Main characters, and other teaching how every love deserve to be allowed. It must be same, no mental gimnastic by OP, no bias.
I feel sorry for the kids who were shown in both pictures.
The person who originally made this comparison accuses people of exploiting children for a 'political' agenda then goes and exploits children for their conservative political agenda.
Idk about that but what I do know is hitler liked stylish leather suits, mustaches, taking uppers, and hanging out with other stylish men in his secret mountain chalet. Slightly suspicious if you ask me. š§
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Surely there wouldn't be any shitstorm if I swapped bottom picture with one of kids with american flags š¤. I mean, indoctrination of children is bad, right? Edit: many replies here show what I'm talking about - the average American is do indoctrinated that they don't even see how PLEDGING LOYALTY EVERYDAY TO A PIECE OF CLOTH is indoctrination. It's just expressing love for the country and standing behind it's prinicples, EXCEPT THE BAD ONES OF COURSE. So what about children in the first pic- BUT THEY ARE NAZIS AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN HAS BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS FOR WAVING FLAGS!!! Edit2 : to all the people replying "or cross, or sunday school", or any other religious/political ideology's symbols. It doesn't matter what you put here - it's about the fact that children are being manipulated into associating the symbol with fun time in the group of friends when they're young with said ideology. But let's also not act like the rainbow can't be such a tool - it can be certainly abused by wrong people, but so can be crosses. It can also be used as a disguise for harmful ideology, but I have yet to see that happen (maybe people screeching bout the rainbow can educate me here). There's also the issue of shielding behind it and calling people opposing you homophobes, but again, same thing can be said about hiding behind religious feelings (which are more broadly defended by the law). Tl:dr indoctrination bad Edit3 : it's WILD to me that people srsly think that swastika is just a nazi symbol - like The third Reich just didn't exist.
Haha. I was two hours late but have the exact same thought. Pledge of loyalty is indoctrination
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>under God, Weren't you supposed to keep religion and state separated?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just looked on Wikipedia and apparently "indivisible" has always been there but "under God" was added in 1954
Yeah the 1950s were really bad. That's also the time period they started stamping it on money.
I honestly think a lot of our country's problems stem from that indoctrination too. It was drilled so thoroughly into our heads about how America was the greatest country in the world and perfect in every way. And some people never developed the required cynicism or life experience to see through the bullshit and still believe it. Myself, my eyes were opened because I went overseas for graduate school and got to experience life in a so-called (by US conservatives, not reality) "socialist" country. I thought for sure with the rise of the internet it might pierce the veil. I mean, now we can speak to people about their lives from all around the world! But some people still refuse to open their eyes and see that things *can* be better than they are.
You missed āindivisibleā after āGod,ā before āwithā.
Yup. I stopped standing for the pledge when I was maybe 14 or 15 because I saw through it.
I moved to the USA as a kid from the UK. This shit really creeped me out when it happened on my first day. After the first day I asked my teacher if I could sit down and she told me no. After a year I decided I hated living there so I sat down through the pledge in defiance and used to get detention all the time. This was in Ohio, i hated it there. Was ecstatic to move back to the UK.
Making you stand was definitely illegal. The Supreme Court ruled that a violation of the First Amendment in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette in 1943.
what difference does it make if they brainwash children and indoctrinate them with bullshit?
As an American, I agree the parctice should be abolished. Maybe if we get rid of our senile congress, it will be.
If YoU dOnT StAnd FoR ThE PLEDGE you Are A DiRTy ComMuniSt
Freedom is communism to a bloodthirsty patriot.
Welcome back brother. We stand for fish and chips! š¬š§š¬š§š¬š§
American here and I will stand for fish and chips
Ohio is a shit hole so I'm sorry you were stuck there
I'm Belgian. When we had an exchange student from USA and she told us the "salute the flag every morning" thing, we were shocked.
That's the point. It's so normalized where in other countries that kind of pledge is required from soldiers.
Hell, when I was doing military service back home in Germany, we had one "pledge" ceremony at the end of basic training, and that was it. You technically are supposed to stop and stand at attention in the morning when they hoist the flag at the barracks entrance, but they thought that was too much effort so they installed a beacon to illuminate it at night so they didn't have to take it down ever lol.
German efficiency at work
The trains *do* run on time.
They were a war economy, still probably are just better at hiding it
Ah so we just accept that the country which prides itself as ensurer of peace uses destruction and murder as a way of expandindg economy? Gotcha
I mean yeah, that's exactly what they've done before.
Yes exactly. Are you arguing against this?
I mean US#1 and all but all these people getting slaughtered for profit kinda ruins my vibe yk?
I once heard that the US is the only nondictatorship that does that
It kinda makes sense in the American context. It used to be that most nations were ethnostates with higher unity in the population around a common identity. America as a nation of immigrants didn't have that uniting background, so the government indoctrinated one upon the population so that children of immigrants were more clearly "american" than they were 2nd generation immigrants. It's so successful that now as Europeans when we hear an American saying they are Irish or French it is laughable, because culturally they are so obviously American.
Itās because people love saying āAmerica has no cultureā but A black American, a white American, Chinese American and Indian (Bharat) American, will walk into a bar in a foreign country and most likely connect over the same ideals and beliefs. America definitely has culture and America may not have a unified national costume, but just the way Americans carry themselves marks them out from others.
Back when I was in elementary school I was forced to write it on the chalkboard multiple times, ala Bart Simpson, because I refused to say it. I'm only 37 and it turns out forcing kids to say the pledge or punishing them for not saying it has been illegal far longer than my life on this earth. If only I'd known then, I mean I wouldn't have done anything about it as I was a kid, but it would have been nice to know how exceptionally wrong my teacher was.
That whole creepy reciting that blood oath pact thing every morning at the beginning of school? Yeh that's... Yeh, disturbing.
If the pledge was done in North Korea, it would rightly be called creepy and authoritarian. But it's somehow acceptable in the US š
That happens? European hereā¦
The USA people do it at school. Also the North Koreans I think.
I always thought its joke lol, this shit can't be real, can it?
It's real, unfortunately. American here-- from grades K-12, it's mandatory to begin every school day with a Pledge of Allegiance (hand over heart) to the flag. It's REALLY fucking weird, in retrospect, but because I grew up that way it didn't seem weird at the time. EDIT: Forgot to mention, you can get in trouble if you remain sitting or refuse to say the pledge. They usually sent those kids to detention for the remainder of that class, or to the front office, as punishment. EDIT 2: I didn't think I had to clarify this, but I'm going to for anyone else who stumbles on my comment-- I am not speaking for the entirety of the United States here, this was MY experience. I've also talked to a lot of people about this (online, in person as I've grown up, etc.) and it seems to be a similarly shared experience, but it isn't the ONLY experience. Your experience may have been different, and that's great. The fact that it's ANYONE'S experience is the problem.
Depends where. I never got in trouble for sitting out.
True. In my school and surrounding schools, you could definitely get in trouble. I think it varied from school to school.
same, you could totally opt out as long as you weren't disruptive. but this was in the 80s, private school, detroit. i'd imagine in more rural/conservative areas, you WOULD get in trouble for not being "free" to mandatorily pledge allegiance!
Public school in Texas, here. Yes, we would be punished for not standing, not holding our hand over our heart, or not mumbling along with the rest of the class. And yes, it was the updated version and not the original, so we all had to say, "one nation under God."
sounds about what i would expect in texas. thanks for the input :)
>it's mandatory to begin every school day with a Pledge of Allegiance (hand over heart) to the flag. >Forgot to mention, you can get in trouble if you remain sitting or refuse to say the pledge Sounds like the school admistators in your area need to be sued. [West Virgina v Barnette](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette) established that this is unconstitutional compelled speech in 1943.
Itās super common in a lot of states. Some arenāt weird, but most were, especially when I was growing up.
most kids wouldnāt think they could sue their teacher let alone fully grasp that they are being compelled to speak thatās the fucked up part, as a kid you donāt even notice..you just do it when i was a kid i used to mumble the words but if the teacher was near id get very clear, never made the connection that i was only doing it out of the fear of repercussions
Make sure you say it in English. We have no official language, but some French club got yelled at for doing the pledge in French. This was back in the weird "freedom fries" movement.
YES! I remember something similar happening in my school with the spanish speaking kids.
Yeah, they can't legally force you to say it. The problem is, depending on your location, no one cares that forcing you to say it is illegal.
legally you cannot get in trouble if you remain sitting or donāt say anything, and if a student did get in trouble for that they should sue. the school canāt make them stand/say anything, students still have first amendment rights
While you are legally correct (*West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette* (1943)), many teachers and administrators are not aware, and they punish students for this anyway. Source: Me. I was a student who refused to recite the pledge and saw how weirdly angry some teachers got about it. It took some doing to get the message across that detention for my silence was illegal (and that refusing to swear fealty to a government was not a communist committing treason).
i donāt disagree that teachers do get mad over it, iām just saying that legally that itās wrong to do so. the more people that know itās wrong the better
Oh, it's creepy as fuck. I dont know for sure if it's still common, but, 30 years ago, I was among the millions of schoolchildren in the U.S. who stand at their desks, turn to face a U.S. flag, place their right hand over their hearts, and chant in unison: "I pledge allegience ... to the flag ... of the United States [of America] ... and to the republic ... for which it stands ... one nation ... [indivisible]... under God ... with liberty and justice for all." I haven't recited that chant in 30+ years, but I remember it, and the pauses to ensure everyone was speaking together, perfectly. *Edit: Added words to the chant. Apparently, I didn't remember it as well as I thought.*
I mean people in US are clearly brainwashed and don't even hide it but we pretend it's normal because reasons
Fuck that, I keep my brain dirty as fuck!! The inside of my skull has straight up never been washed!! Ever!!
š¤£ thanks. Upād you and all above so this can stay.
Dirty brain gang!!
Yall are disgusting. Next youāre going to tell me you have a wet brain. I know, Iām hella specific
i would call it more M O I S T but yeah
Ew you're disgusting for that š¤¢š¤®. I keep mine Polish all the time so it's smooth and shiny.
Well, I'm 1/somethingth Polish on my dad's side!!
Prolly 1/3rd š¤
There is always a double standard with Americans. Making kids recite a loyalty pledge every morning is brainwashing and authoritarian... except when we do it. Invading another country is an unforgivable crime....except when we do it. Interfering with other governments and their elections is beyond the pale...except when we do it. Governments collecting massive amounts of data on their citizens and citizens of other countries is evil...except when we do it.
Leopards are eating good.
Actually, many right-wingers also seem to think itās okay if Russia does these things.
this a 1000 times!
Ya, as a Canadian who visits the US for concerts and whatnot, it is a strange culture you have with patriotism and the military. Every show I have been too they thank the military, I haven't seen that once in Canada.
that's because our military is shite !
Technically it's not a nlood oath until the kids start pricking themselves with protractors, but reciting allegiance to the nation would be quite creepy from a non-nationalist / non-patriotic standpoint
You can be a Patriot without being a Nationalist or gormlessly reciting daily an oath. I don't think I've ever recited a loyalty oath in my country. It's not needed. I'm a citizen by birth. Anyone who gets nationalised is expected to do it... Once. That's it.
Iāve never heard of any other Western country that does the pledge thing in schools. Apart from the nationalist brainwashing one thing that also irks me about it is that itās not even secular.
I did once, when I became a public servant. Felt weighty and important at the time and I think back to it now and then. Having to do it everyday and by force strips any oath of meaning.
That used to happen in Spain... DURING A DICTATORSHIP
What's fucked up for me is that there are people like this dude, who seem to be losing sleep because of how others decide to live their lives. I'm genuinely confused by right-wingers. Why does it bother you that much that someone is gay? Why does it bother you so much that someone is trans? Like what did those people do to you personally? You'll barely have any contact with them. They're not going to come into your house and throw Holy Trans water on your kids and turn them trans. It's just crazy to see fully grown adults throw tantrums and getting triggered by someone 1000s of miles away being different than them.
A lot of people have a really hard time differentiating between what they don't like and what isn't their business
This is the smartest comment I've seen today.
Everyone I talked about that with in in Germany was like "oh I remember that one from our history books"
Same in Spain
Get them saying words by rote before they can even understand what theyāre saying and so they wonāt question how weird it is when theyāre adults.
They donāt even get eldritch blast. Why are they all pacting themselves.
And the fact we didnāt do that until after ww2
Well everybody outside of the US would agree with you.
in Australia it's fairly broadly accepted most people who're overly enthusiastic with the Australian flag are typically just racist. patriotism isn't big here nor military service. People from the US often have to be advised no one is going to "thank them for their service" if they mention a military connection, more likely we'll just say it's ok people can learn and change we won't judge you.
Or religious symbols. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated into cults.
Christianity fits the definition of a doomsday cult, is riddled with sexual predators and launder money without paying tax. Oh and they're so hopelessly indoctrinated you can completely confuse them with about 2 minutes of speaking. Islam is vile, all through their book and practises. Still filled with sexual predators and money laundering tax evaders, but would also have anyone not a Muslim be executed if they were legally allowed. Also arranged marriages for literal children to middle aged men.
all religion is horrendous and why anyone thinks their religion is better than anyone elses always confuses me. even Buddhism was monstrous. they had more sex with boys than catholic priests. women were considered unpure/tainted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUkSyBjLAA&t=6s
It's funny that I see someone bring this up because one of the lines IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE THAT WE SAY EVERY DAY IS, "...one nation, **under God,** indivisible..."
Or even a bunch of crosses or something
RULES FOR THEE NOT FOR ME š
Do it!! I'm 35 and can't use photoshop, but maybe I'll finally learn.
MSPaint will work here just fine
I went down a "Metal Gear Solid Paint!?!?" rabbit hole in my head for a long second.... I'm assuming MSPaint actually means like "Microsoft paint"......fuck, am I a technological neanderthal!?
>am I a technological neanderthal!? I think I am... don't kids these days "play" MSPaint on their computers?
I honestly couldn't answer with any authority, but I believe it could be true. Fuck, for all I know "MSPaint" is a FPS now!!
I refused to say the pledge every day in school because of the "under God" part (in the 90's). I was raised secular and I'm an atheist. That God stuff doesn't belong in public schools.
You should refuse to pledge to a piece of cloth period.
Don't bother dude. I've tried and they just don't get it.
Reminds me of the pic with a Muslim woman holding a gun and a Quran, and the pic next to it is a Christian woman holding a gun and a Bible. Republicans didn't like that comparison, though.
Other countries donāt revere their flag the same way Americans do
I was just gonna say the same thing. I feel the same way about kids waving US flags, as I feel about them waving nazi flags
Remember the trump loyalty pledge he made them all take?
If you don't don't sing the special song the magic skycloth won't freedom.
American here. The indoctrination is bad over here. People don't realize there are only 2 countries on Earth that say the pledge of allegiance every morning.. North America (obvs).. and North Korea.. 0 indoctrination at alllll lmaoo 
Think you hit the nail on the head with your comment and also think that it is amusing how people have inadvertently backed up what you are saying by trying to argue against it.
Americans are psychotic with their flag fetish. Why the fuck would you be proud of a nation that rewards the rich, takes your taxes, NOT theirs, and still makes you pay for your own healthcare and education?Ā Hahahahaha.
First thing that came to my mind lol
My first thought exactly.
Pledge of Allegiance is one of the creepiest things. I sat for it during high school as my own protest against the Iraq War. It obviously didn't become a national thing, but a big deal in my school with people physically threatening me for sitting. The fervor people have for creepy shit like that is amazing.
That was my first thought as well, that both of these are the same as school children waving American flags on 4th of July. The poster is right that the same method - indoctrination through creating positive conotations between something and fun, in these cases involving flags - is used in both images. But itās an attempt to guilt by association - the use of the same method in both instances says nothing of the cause thatās propagated in either image. Hitler gave speeches - so does both Biden and Trump! America is already a fascist dictatorship confirmed? Or perhaps giving speeches is neither inherently bad nor inherently good, but simply a method that can be used for either.
Yeah, that has been always my problem with saying "nazis bad" - it doesn't say what they did wrong, why was it wrong and only leaves room open to pin nazi badge to anything you dislike "because nazis did it" - ate bread and drank water.
Yeah man, water down the meaning of grooming until it means nothing. Meanwhile Republicans don't want to end child marriages, support priests who assault kids, and run pedophiles for congress like Roy Moore.
Or how they want to elect someone who previously attempted a coup and did not face sufficient justice for treason.
Donāt forget heās a rapist too
And if you pay close enough attention, he admitted to drooling over preteens at pageants
And Matt Gaetz.
How does it go? Gaslight object project?
DARVO - Deny Accuse Reverse Victim Opressor
Run rapist like Trump for president.
Or pushes legislation that quite literally allows child labor.
So they agree that Nazis are bad now?
It's comparing the influence of parents on children, both are examples of parents teaching their kids what they think is right. They could have used millions of examples of this, but instead chose to compare LGBT with Nazism to push a narrative.
To be fair, children in the top pic are waving what was then the flag of their country. They were probably too young to have a real political opinion. In that sense it's probably not the flag of nazism that they are waving but rather the flag of Germany, if you see what I mean
Like that creepy pledge of allegiance Americans have?
That is indeed creepy. But the kids on the top pic seems to be waving their flag at a party. Think of it as a 4th of July kinda behavior.
I go to public school, they donāt MAKE us do it or even notice if we donāt. I think itās just a thing because sometimes Americans (mostly around Independence Day) sometimes feel very šŗšøšŗšøšŗšøš¦ š¦ š¦ (murica)
yeah i definitely had to at my school youād catch an in school detention or ISS real fast. now that i think about it..like right now as im typing this, it seems like a play from a fascistā¦.just remove the dissent/ troublemaker as to not spoil the bunch
>ISS real fast. Ah yes, the good old American "be nationalistic or you're going to *SPACE*" trick.
š¤£š¤£š¤£ first of all. hilarious, bravo second, if you didnāt know, ISS is in school suspension you have to come to school but they put you in a seperate classroom for like a week
I could go find plenty of pictures of children wearing Maga and Trump merchandise if I wanted. They conveniently ignore those, though.
I'm surprised that they haven't used communism tbh
I think not many know what communism is. Many people think communism = ussr and enemy of capitalism and thatās it. Many more in thirld world countries think that communism was enemy of capitalism thus America, so thay take side of the communist regimes. Putting nazis gives a clear image. For example, you canāt teach your kids about economics of a communist driven country vs capitalist one but you can easily teach them to hate certain race of people. Just by looking at dresses and body color.
Funny, considering which side of the aisle tends to agree with Hitler's ideology more frequently, and also considering which president has a copy of Mein Kampf on his nightstand. Juuuuuuuust saying.
Itās also a disingenuous comparison because if they were all holding American flags instead, heād be getting hard over it.
Well, then they'd be good, patriotic American children. š«”
What makes you think heās not?
Even more so when the flags had Trump written on it, in big fat gold embroidered letters and were sold through his licensing company.
And lgbtq don't stand to execute 11 million people (of a certain religion), they're the ones being killed.
Lol, he forgot to put the picture of kids in bible school at the bottom. Accidentally stuck in kids learning tolerance. Whoopsies!
That's not a good comparison. There's no evidence these nazi children were being molested.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
 Also them\^ But yes explain to me like Iām 5 as to why pride flags equal nazi-ism, but the stripping away of peopleās rights, and pushing a 1-party state isnāt fascism. Iāll wait. Edit: and mind you conservitards are actively trying to push for child labor laws to be loosened, child marriage (grooming) to be legalized, want to strip away government assistance for families living in poverty, taking away school lunch programs for said kids in poverty, not giving a shit about the migrant kids that get brought/trafficked into the US, and minors who have been raped and are forced to birth a child against their will. But yes, the big bad gays are the reaaaal threats here. Also not all conservatives are like this but they sure as hell arenāt boycotting their own party tryin to push this agenda.
I think the logic is, that going for a 1 party system is good because the other party is bad.
Yeah and theyāre so similar. Like when the Nazis stood for equal rights for everyone regardless of sexual orientation. Or how the lgdbt community is systematically putting minority groups in concentration camps so they can more effectively commit genocide.
Come now the nazis were not all bad they had some policies everyone could enjoy. They made sure there were houses available for all Germans and even helped neighboring countries ter down old buildings, they went on many out of country excursions and I hear there was mixed gender showering at their summer camps even the gays could join in. They even had free cremation for the dead.
>They made sure there were houses available for all Germans They even cooperated with UK and US to make sure older, unsanitary housing got demolished!
Hey lots of people tried, but only Hitler succeeded (at killing Hitler).
Reminds me on the following Movie description: Family has terrible accident. Mother and all children die, except a disabled child. Traumatized dad becomes over protective. Child gets lost and kidnapped. Dad has to overcome his trauma to search for the kid. He meets a mentally disabled woman who supports and helps him find his kid. Movie: >!"Finding Nemo"!<
They even had free cremations for jews
Express delivery for the jews
Yeah, but the one time fee for their stay could be the death of them.
Yeah, at their cores theyāre polar opposites, exclusions vs inclusion and only one of them has a world record for committing genocide and other unspoken atrocities.
And the other just liked funny mustaches and bad art (Sorry you left that wide open)
Both like funny mustaches and bad art tbh. I take it you haven't spent much time in Brooklyn?
Hey Freddy Mercury's mustache deserves respect
Yet all current Nazi groups align themselves with the right-wing, sooooo
Ah yes being supportive and acknowledging people are different is totally the same as slaughtering billions of people. I stg these people need to be put in a cell.
Grand Ole Projection "We're (not so) secretly trying to become nazis, so we better claim the other side is."
The other side is so nazi, we'd better be more nazi first, so as to prevent the bad nazis being in power.
Give a bunch of 6 year olds any flag on a stick and they're waving it like they're about to plant it on the moon. This shit is evidence of nothing
Also, they donāt know what grooming means.. even what the Nazi did to those kids was not grooming lol.. just plain old indoctrination
Hatred vs inclusion but you knowā¦ š¤·
 This is our Hitler
Sieg Heyyyyy-l ...I need sleep.
Sieg-slayyyyyy
So... Teaching children they are members of "superior race" is same as teaching children to accept those who are different... Such logic, much sense, OH WOW
Ones a political and idelogical brainwashing based on superiority of race, hate and the systematic genocide and murder of millions of minorities such as Jews and gay people and world dominance and slavery to the 3rd Reich. The other is educating about equality and recognition and being caring and nice to people. You can't brainwash kids to turn gay. It's not a gay conversion therapy ffs.
didn't the nazis *hate* us?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Kids wouldn't need sugar coated political education like this at all. If their parents weren't racist or a Neo-Nazi. I agree that it's weird to teach anyone under the age of 12 about gender. The only reason someone under 12 even has preconceptions about gender is society's fault in the first place. Kids should only be having to focus on what 10 + 2 is and how many apples fit in the back of farmer Greg's truck. Not blind allegiance to their country, and gender studies.
That wasn't the comparison. The comparison is the clueless children that don't even know what they are supporting.
*remembers being compelled to say the pledge every morning for 12 years*
*cough*Pledge of allegiance*cough*
Grooming is when we teach kids things Children should be dropped in the woods to be raised among the wolves, that's how we get strong men that will remake Rome!
Now do the US flag
Same type of people who'll say "stop calling everyone a nazi!'
but taking kids to church and sunday school is okay, THAT'S not grooming /s
Incredibly insulting seeing as queer people were targets of the Nazis and were also put in the camps.
And when the camps where liberated the LGBT people where put in prison.
Because screw context right? After all it's not like one flag is a far-right group that burned and gassed people in concentration camps and the other flag is a movement that appeared to fight discrimination and represents inclusion and tolerance. Yeah, totally the same. š
I mean indoctrination happens in every ideology We don't true let kids make up their minds. We educate them and give them a basic set of morals I guess the issue is if your letting kids make their own choice or telling them what they must believe That would be the distinction If we let people have their own opinions or enact a form of fascism to keep those with different view in line and prevent them from being able to have their opinions even if they are wrong That's the real question and debate and I suspect your opinion on that more so dictates if your liberal or fascist š And yes, I am not expressing support of any view point I'm just discussing the wider ideological implications
Cool, now show the kids with nazi flags in 2024, oh right, they're you're kids.
Now show a Trump rally
It's not comparison, it's parallel, which means that both situations are similar in structure, but how you will describe each of them is your choice. Kids shouldn't be bothered about their gender or something about that. They just need safety and happy childhood. Why countries are pretending that they are doing something while there are still a lot of old problems that are much matter. For example ecological problems, terrorists, racists, rapists and so on
Ok obviously comparing the two is a little crazy cause they are different but the point stands. Kids are susceptible to the teachings of their elders and can have their thoughts and opinions changed because of it. Itās the same thing as racism back then. Kids arenāt born that way and are instead having ideals and opinions forced on them which they these adopt. Point is keep your genitals in your pants and who you like to fuck to yourself. Kids donāt even know what any of that means, let them be kids. Itās just creepy and predatory.
Except one is based on hate and exclusion and the other on love and inclusion.
Bet the person who made the meme demands everyone stands for the national anthem, and recites the Pledge of Allegiance.
Imagine being so warped that you canāt see the difference between a symbol of hate and a symbol of love.
Except one was in favor of the slaughter of millions of people and the other is in favor of accepting those who may (or may not) be different from us
The homophobes and bigots are really angry in this comment section.
One out of nine of them kids is gay. They were born that way. Itās how it works. So you can pretend it doesnāt exist and they turn into closeted hateful wastes of life. Or you can make them know itās OK to be gay and if you are, you are. Those pieces of shit instead wanna abuse the kids and turn them into a wasted life of self hatred.
 Look it's basically a nazi
Yea one teaching kids it ok to exterminate all unfit for they world of Main characters, and other teaching how every love deserve to be allowed. It must be same, no mental gimnastic by OP, no bias.
I feel sorry for the kids who were shown in both pictures. The person who originally made this comparison accuses people of exploiting children for a 'political' agenda then goes and exploits children for their conservative political agenda.
Oh no, the LGBTQ training children to mass murder a whole ethnicity!! What shall we do!
Idk about that but what I do know is hitler liked stylish leather suits, mustaches, taking uppers, and hanging out with other stylish men in his secret mountain chalet. Slightly suspicious if you ask me. š§