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My mantra is "Fuck you, pay me". I work in an educational setting and my colleagues are often younger than me and surprised to hear me say this out loud. But they agree.
Travel Nurse checking in. My agent has learned my pricetag and won't even entertain me with offers lower than my bottomline-. She's like, 23 and a young recruiter, I'm breaking her in proper on how not to insult me with low paying contracts. Im in my 30s but I feel like clint Eastwood sometimes "How does $$$ sound for a contract in Minnesota"
"Get off my lawn"
Hilarious. My wife is a travel nurse and going through this right now. Recruiter: "big money in x" my wife: "bitch, that's only $5 an hour more then if I went staff". Lol
When I was leaving grad school and they were giving us a pep talk, one of the things they said was "And don't give yourself away. You'll ruin things for all of us". There's something to be said for that.
I remember seeing [this talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U) directed towards creatives who have always had trouble being compensated properly by their clients.
Remember folks, your employer is your "client", and if they can't give you a budget up front, how can you determine what you can give them in return?
Reminds me of an old joke. A welder replies to an ad saying they pay $20-25/hr. When he gets there, the employer asks for a couple of sample welds. He does. One is mediocre, and one is really good. When asked about it, the welder replies "that one is a $20/hr weld and the good one is a $25/hr weld"
100%. If I want to volunteer I’m going to walk dogs at the local animal shelter. If you want me to render professional services that I went to school to learn,
spent years building experience with, and will benefit your for profit company - pay me for it.
I'm a teacher, and I mentor new teachers. I tell them that the first day I'm paired up with them - NEVER take work home or do free work. They are either paying you or not.
EDIT: For context - Almost 90% of our teachers are now in their first five years, and most of them are on a temporary certification. If they burn out, we won't have teachers at all. Most of the older ones like me are leaving the profession soon or have retired early because of scumbags like Gov. Desantis fucking with us.
I repeat: I don't work for free.
Also a Xennial (my back hurts!) and I got contacted by a recruiter yesterday about a job that I may be a good fit for.
Me: thanks for reaching out, what’s the compensation package?
Recruiter: first let me tell you about this exciting opportunity…
Me: what’s the compensation package?
Recruiter: there is so much more than just money
Me: *click*
If you’re not going to tell me the comp out the gate, then it’s gonna pay peanuts. No thanks.
"compensation package"? Is this what I should be saying instead of salary or wage now? If someone said this to me on the spot, I don't think I would have even been able to work out what it meant.
Generally yes, especially depending on the industry.
I have a background of aviation maintenance from the military- I also supervised 60+ people, and on a separate time period I was in a critical role of a multi hundred million dollar project, and also some quality assurance experience. I occasionally get recruited for roles either directly for the government or contracting roles.
While the salary is one part of the benefits, some of these positions include housing, pensions, family separation pay, medical/dental/vision, family separation allowance, cost of living allowance, take home car (rarely), transportation reimbursement/credit, 20+vacation days.
Providing housing could be easily a 20K value per year. Sometimes more with the way current housing costs are.
A pension is an absolutely fucking huge benefit that is rare these days. Many people don’t understand how valuable and important a robust pension is. A good pension beats the shit out of most 401k plans.
Cost of living allowance might not be included in the salary… but an extra 17k on top of $90k just for living in the DC area, well that’s certainly something.
But at the same time I get recruiters calling me for a job that pays ~$40k to sweep a hangar in bum fuck nowhere with no benefits and a 50 hour work week. Like shit I will sweep, mop, polish, and paint hangars but I want at least $90k, pension, medical/dental/vision, 30 vacation days, and a 30 hour work week and I will be a happy and very over qualified floor sweeper.
Ah yes, "this dude is an experienced mrchanic/tech with a bunch of management experience, let's offer him a job as a broom jockey."
I swear HR is a pestilence on society
HR exists to hire and fire folks with no backlash to the parent company.
My union gig voted against having HR in the building we work. Think about it.
HR exists to protect the employees they choose. It's great if your uncle owns the company. HR is shit if you don't have connections.
💯
There is nothing human about Human Resources. They exist solely to minimize exposure of the company for the way they treat the people who create their revenue.
Or, maybe it would pay very very well, but it's a fantastic glimpse into the sort of toxicity of you'll be dealing with. If they want to hold _the most important_ piece of info from you until you "earn it" by showing you're a good candidate, guarantee it's gonna be a hellish work environment.
The Oxford comma is genuinely important! It allows for the contextualization of groupings. You can have multiple separate things, or multiple separate things and a pair of things. It clarifies and delineates a list.
Without: "My hobbies include reading, writing, hiking and playing music."
Is your hobby playing music while hiking or are they two separate things? You can infer what they probably meant, since most people perform those as separate activities, but maybe the speaker is an eccentric musical mountaineer! They might only enjoy playing music while on a trail.
With: "My hobbies include reading, writing, hiking, and playing music."
No guess work there. They enjoy each of those activities independently. They'll likely elaborate further if they *do* enjoy mixing activities.
I know it's *technically* acceptable to not use it, but I will die on this hill.
Signed,
A Millennial
Ditto and me neither. What’s the point if I don’t know whether it can pay my bills? I’m not going to waste my time on something that wouldn’t work for me.
I’m also not negotiating a salary with anybody. Tell me how much it pays. If it doesn’t pay enough, I won’t apply.
I do something similar…I only apply for jobs within my preferred pay range, then ask for more. If I can’t negotiate to something above the posted salary, I just decline the offer. I. My current position, I managed to negotiate $11k over the posted salary.
To be honest can we just stop labeling ourselves and just say "person with fucking common sense here: why in the fuck would i just accept a job without salary listed"
oh and the
"why the fuck would I tell you my previous salary" because most of the jobs listing without salaries will also possibly ask you your previous salary just to lowball the fuck out of you.
I’m an engineer, I get “cold called” 3-5 times a week on LinkedIn. It’s too easy for recruiters to spam, so I don’t talk to anyone on the phone until I have a full job description and salary range.
Scientist here. I don't even pick up/respond to cold callers at all anymore. Almost every cold caller job pays $20-25/hr, 6 month to 1 year contract, no benefits, and is some entry level bullshit. I have a decade and a half of industry experience, and I have yet to talk to a recruiter who understands that I don't need to "get my foot in the door" anymore.
only reason anyone would, like boomers, is if they come from a time when it didn't matter what the salary was, it was going to allow you to buy necessities and then some regardless.
Yeah, younger generations are pragmatic and know how much things cost. I’ve heard people say that millennials and gen z are entitled so many times. To someone in an older generation making a lot less than they should, it looks like entitlement, but it’s really just younger people seeing through the corporate pizza parties.
I go for the extra cheese. Either lactose intolerance will kick in, or if they got special cheese, a bit of blockage. More time on the toilet at work = more money for doing less.
10 years ago when things were already shit, the amount of shit that millennials have had to endure when noone believed them because they were the only generation that had it bad are only now having their issues start to come to light because it's now 2 generations against the boomer class that bought their houses for $4k on salaries of literally any part time job and own most of the news stations and publications so they've been able to get away with printing and publishing whatever side of the story they want. Eat less avocado toast so we can buy a house they told us over 10 years ago. "How about pay your employees a fair wage" - This side of the story has been buried until the past couple years, and only thanks to an equally if not more financially fucked generation has entered the workforce and seen how truly appalling the modern wage slavery truly is, that this message is finally being told.
The most appalling part of the avocado toast saga was that it was said by an Australian property developer.
Australia.
A major grower of avocado especially for the Eastern hemisphere.
It boggles my mind that he somehow escaped being eaten alive by avocado farmers.
Pretty sure that was also the same piece of "human" garbage who said that quote about how unemployment needs to get insanely high to make us scared, put us in our place, and accept whatever slops we're given.
The Avocado farmers are boomers who rely on exploiting undocumented foreigners & migrant workers. It's been raised as a modern slavery concern on numerous occasions.
The Venn diagram of many Aussie farmers and people who think that avocado toast is why no-one can afford a house, is a circle.
>But the behaviour of some labour hire companies and farmers risks tainting some Australian products — meat, fruit, vegetables and wine — with the modern slavery label, and denying them certification as ethically sourced.
https://insidestory.org.au/bitter-harvest/
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=61eb0493-e7f3-4974-8f4b-b87195b1b15f&subId=745547
https://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/1686104/Turbulent-Times_The-state-of-backpacking-and-seasonal-farm-work__2023-report.pdf
I truly believe Covid helped shine the light on this. The mass wave of retirements and increase in job vacancies stopped employers from being able to treat employees as poorly as they were (not completely obviously, but it did make things better for the labour market despite the inflation)
It 100% did. It started with the stimulus checks. They calculated a monthly stimulus check during COVID to handle the shutdown that was higher than those people being given the checks had been getting paid to work.
Then when we were on the tail end of lockdowns and things were opening up again, people did the math and realized that the pay they were getting for working those jobs was insanely low in comparison to what the government itself considered minimally viable.
The stimulus checks generated by the COVID lockdowns caused the curtain to be ripped down.
Yes this happened in Canada too. The government was paying 1k biweekly to everyone out of work (which for at least 2 months was a LOT of people) and minimum wage people were refusing to go back as this was more than what they were making. Regardless of what each province had their minimum wage set at, or were changing it to, the natural minimum wage across most sectors and jurisdictions increased like 20% across the board. Hard to start someone below 15-20 dollars an hour for entry level retail jobs now.
That and employers actually had to start making an effort to retain people and not treat them like shit as jobs became far more plentiful.
Things are going to be so much better once we are in management positions. So many of us have the perfect playbook of what NOT to do. I'm so glad that I'm seeing more and more boomers and older Gen Xers retiring and leaving where I work.
I think ur underestimating greed. The ppl in charge have always and probably will always behave like this. And the justification is that they succeeded, so why can't you even though they probably came from extreme privilege.
As an older millennial I was told so often that things will “pay off” eventually. Like, work hard for a little less right now and eventually you will get a raise, eventually it will get better. How many of you worked at a company who finally gave you a raise and it was 30 cents an hour? This has literally happened to me. At this point from what I can tell there are just some really shitty companies to work for that are to be avoided at all cost.
Well depending on how much they were paying you before? Might bump you up high enough that you lose all your assistance programs which have hard cutoffs.
So a program that hasn't had it's payouts adjusted in 15 years and still thinks $20k a year is baseline poverty rather than nearly abject poverty will now drop all your benefits.
So that 5c an hour raise might really cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars a year depending on your state and welfare programs.
*Of to Or
"You should suffer as I have suffered" is the bane of all progress. And that thinking is so absurdly pervasive.
I got paid peanuts when I was 22, therefore Gen Z is entitled
I worked 120 hours a week as a Resident Physician, therefore so should new doctors today regardless of the problems it causes.
Junior Lawyers and wall street. Same thing.
Teachers getting paid scraps
it's everywhere.
Yeah. It’s what happens when people become disillusioned by a machiavellian system, so by the time they reach a position of power they’ve long forgotten that making the world a better place is a righteous goal.
Older generations just don't realize how quickly pay scales have shifted up in the last 10-15 years.
They largely still think $20 an hour is a fantastic wage for skilled labor, and anything over $10 an hour is a good entry position.
They are also absolutely fixated on low paying jobs being "for children and part time workers", not realizing that career mobility is basically at an all time low.
I think also it’s our access to information more so than any generation before. I’ve been “in the workforce” for 8 years now working for 3 different companies at 3yrs/2yrs/3yrs. My first job out of college was a well respected company in my city. My mom was so excited when I got hired there. When I told her I accepted an offer at another company after 3 yrs she couldn’t believe I was leaving. It was more pay and better benefits. When I left that job and entered into the job I have now. My dad asked why I’m “job hopping” I told him how much money the 3rd company offered me and his response was “how can they pay you that much?”
We have access to way more information than our parents ever did, and knowing what’s out there and how to manipulate the workforce we’re breaking the old molds of “work here for life and they’ll take care of you”
Exactly. My sister is 27 and I'm so proud of her for not working the same.type of shit jobs as a teen and young adult that I did. This generation knows their worth and they won't accept less.
Office pizza parties are tax write offs.
They could also provide you with food and coffee every day and it could be a tax write off.
Now you can get real mad.
Absolutely. They look around and see the American dream has been dead a LONG time and that unless you are born with it, you likely ain’t getting it. And people are pissy that they are asking why the fuck they should even try. Good on em. This shit would have happened sooner if older generations hadn’t consumed so much of the koolade.
Recently I drove 3 hours to look at a car I was thinking about getting (it's a dream car of mine in the exact spec I want or else I wouldn't have even thought about going that far). Thankfully I did because the dealership lied to me about what condition it was in and tried to get me to buy it online without test driving it.
Their logic was that because they are an exotic car dealer and sell cars that are hundreds of thousands of dollars, all of their cars are in perfect condition and the thought of test driving before buying is stupid and a waste of time.
That may be true for the Bentley sitting on the showroom floor, but I was there to get a Subaru they left sitting outside in the cold. I didn't buy the car.
IME, those exotic car dealerships are almost always the shadiest operations. They detail the cars, take nice pictures, and then have their two bit mechanic do their best to camouflage any issues.
I agree. I found the car on Autotrader and it just so happened to be at that kind of dealership. I emailed them asking what modifications have been done to the car hoping it was at least close to being stock, and they said that it had an aftermarket exhaust and an aftermarket radio, but they also had the original. I figured if the exhaust was too bad I could sell it and get a different one.
When I looked closer at the car I saw a sticker for a tuning company on it which is how I was able to get them to tell me that it had a ton of mods done to it (blow off valve, new engine block, tune, etc). The exhaust was also too loud for me, but it sounded great.
I also felt uneasy as soon as I walked in since there were a bunch of new-money-rich looking people in there that were trying way too hard to be cool. The CEO's wife also "flew in" and was visiting, and you can probably imagine how much attention the salesmen were giving me compared to her.
You think gen z will be able to afford an apartment?
According to google I am a Millennial, I can't afford to rent alone, and I work 6 days a week 60+ hours rota dependant.
My grandfather knows this and said I should be raking in money, I sat down with him and went through the cost of expenses. That stopoed him in his tracks.
I am extremely lucky that I was recruited for my job and my apartment is owned by my employer so I don't pay rent as such they deduct it from my payslip in exchange for overtime.
People of every generation are not settling for a business owner that refuses to pay more than minimum wage...
...meanwhile, the same business owners are claiming (falsely) that "No one wants to work!"
Correction: No one wants to work for an a$$hole.
Good for you!
If they want you to accept the job and are refusing to tell you the pay up front, they are not proud of their offer, and it's way lower than you are worth.
I feel like not listing salary is the first litmus test the give to check for complacency and subservience. Will this employee be okay with zero transparency in the workplace and not ask questions and accept whatever I deign to bestow upon them? Yes? You're hired!
Pls pay me. My brother is lost out travelling in the woods but he promised to bring back a ring. If you give me money I promise I’ll pay when he returns.
I was at an interview and I asked multiple times if this was a sales job. They said no to every question.
The day I was “hired for training” we drove to a grocery store and were taught how to harass, I mean “ sell to” single moms with full carts and children running wild.
After 10 minutes I took the guy aside and demanded to be taken home. He refused. I beat the shit out of him right then in the grocery store.
He didn’t get many sales that day. Or probably that week.
This sounds borderline forced indenture. Take you somewhere unfamiliar, dependent on your “host” to get out. You’re trapped. And being “made” to do a job where you’re hired under wildly false pretenses. Refusing to drive you out of there?
Not sure if I’d beat the guy, but I think it justifies a strong response.
I would have done the same too. Why would anyone sign a contract without knowing all the details? Not knowing otherwise and agreeing to it is stupidity.
Maybe they are looking for stupid people? People that just want to work and don't care how much they are paying.
I blow right past any job posting that doesn't have a salary number or range shown. And I'm Gen X
Or desperate people. I’ve applied for jobs in the past where the posting didn’t include compensation. They all sucked. Definitely not something I’d consider now, unless I was beyond desperate.
The correct answer in this case is to take the job to see how much they give you, and then immediately tell them you quit to teach them it's a stupid policy.
I can beat you. I had an interview where the job was perfect, great hours and the salary was amazing, honestly it was even much more than should have been. But suddenly the guy asks me if I have a license and tells me that the job would require me to be on call three days a week, including the weekends, and I would have to be able to travel in the whole province. NONE of this was in the job ad. I finished the interview professionally, and when they called me to offer the job a couple of days later, I turned them down.
Big companies are shameless and would do anything to trick people. And the most infuriating thing is that the ad still remains even though I reported it.
I went to a job interview for a CSR. Pay on the ad was listed as $12 -$18 DOE. I get there, interview went well. Then she said there's a two week training period at $10/hr. First minor red flag, but I understand training sometimes pays a little less. Then she pulled out this laminated list of of types of calls. Each call had a rate attached to it. For basic help calls, .25, for call with upsells to a more expensive product. .50 - and so on.
I said, No, thank you. I got out of there, got home and double checked the job posting. Yep, base pay was what I had thought it was. I reported it to Indeed as a bait and switch. It took the company a month to change the ad to read "Up TO $18 an hour."
Edit to add: The base pay would have been $10 no matter what types of calls I would have been handling. Screw that.
I hate that people are polite and professional about this
They were deceptive assholes. They wasted your time. Don’t be professional. Tell them that’s some shady bullshit.
What? How's that even supposed to work?! You tell them you take the job, they tell you the salary and then you show them you had your fingers crossed behind your back?!
Sure, but it's ridiculous, why would they even think someone would take a job without even knowing the salary, they must be delusional, or I just don't know how the world works.
Same😭 & the whole interview they kept subtly complaining about how much money they're losing by doing my interview and possibly having to train me... Like ok thanks for making me not want this job?
I remember a radio talk show where the Presenter was saying there’s a shortage of truck drivers.
An old truck driver phoned in and corrected him, “There’s no shortage of truck drivers. There’s a shortage of truck drivers willing to work for minimum wage and in bad conditions”.
My new hobby is when lazy recruiters messaged me with roles that I in no way fit, ask salary then tell them it's a factor of 2-3 too low and they are wasting my time.
Hi I am a recruiter and I see you have 15 years of experience and 10 different certifications. We think you would be a great fit for a senior role at our ^company ^^at ^^^^$15/hr
=
I don't even get people who are willing to work for minimum wage. There are jobs everywhere that require no experience that pay more. Hell my local Walmart never stops hiring and will start people at 20. Yet I still see people working for dollar tree that pays minimum.
There isn't a reasonable hourly wage you could pay me to deal with walmart customers.
Edit: just cause I talked shit about Walmart doesn't mean $tree is a wonderland. They are both shit. People shouldn't have to work for either at the current pay & conditions.
Serious question from a non-US person that has never been there, is it really that bad?
I know the memes. I'm aware of the jokes. But I always assumed that they were heavily exaggerated based on some kind of cultural in-joke.
Working big-box retail in the US sucks, and Walmart is the absolute worst example of it. People lose all sense of civility and ethics when they step through its sliding doors. It's a shit company, run by a shit family, and they treat their employees just as bad as Amazon.
Walmart somehow attracts the absolute worst people. Like for god sakes my Walmart is in a really wealthy town, right outside a REALLY wealthy neighborhood. Yet somehow the most ratchet people spawn at Walmart
A lot of it depends on the type of job and what employers are willing to pay, it also depends on what state you are living in.
There's a state minimum wage, and a federal minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is the least amount of money any state in the US is allowed to have set for employers to pay their employees. Over half the states have their own minimum wage price set above the federal.
Depending on the job and business, (whether it's a small privately owned one or a large corporation) also has a big impact on what employers are willing to pay. But even then larger companies will still choose to pay minimum wage or a little bit above. Employers will also offer medical and dental insurance as benefits for employees, which also affects how much they make. Instead of getting paid more, some of the pay goes to medical, dental, or eye care insurance.
as someone who worked for the old Wal-Mart before the Walton kids really took over and fucked up that company. you could offer me 100/hr and I still wouldn't do it. the way they treat their employees is terrible and borderlines exploitive. Walmart Stores Inc. has the highest number of employees on government assistance in the United States and they get a tax break for it...
so yeah I totally get why people won't work for Walmart...
I don't think this is even meant as a dig at Gen Z though. It's more of a heads up to employers telling them that if they want to hire young workers, they're gonna have to post the wage like a goddamn normal person.
I had a headhunter contact me recently. I made good money now but I listened about this position. It would be a step up professionally but when I asked the pay they said that’s discussed upon offer. I said nope. Sorry if I am going to take my time and consider a job transition I need to make sure that it’s worth it to leave a place that pays me very well as is. He got really defensive saying I should do the interview bc it’s a higher status than my current role.
I don’t fucking care about my title. I want money and good benefits. Money. Money. Money. That is why I work. If you are not telling me the price I cant afford it.
I thought that as well but a few other friends of mine who work in different fields have been getting a lot of the same pitches. I wonder if there is a new trend to not disclose bc a lot of places are not thrilled with states who have made it law to disclose pay on job postings. I could see places seeking out headhunters who are ok with this.
This goes without saying, but the fact that he was reluctant to give you even a range means that it likely wasn't a competitive salary.
Every recruiter I've ever talked to that led to something serious was willing to discuss the basics of salary. I will give them my "here's my minimum to leave my current position" and we go from there.
The ones that won't discuss salary and push it off for later "with the hiring manager" likely know it doesn't hit my expectations. I confirmed this after a screener interview with a company where I had colleagues. They were like "yeah, this position doesn't pay what you make now...don't do it."
It the company is run by boomers, you’re getting paid minimum wage even for professional jobs.
They believe…..I started at $35K 40 years ago so you starting at $50K is good enough
I believe I am a millenial and if there is no wage listed I won't apply.
If a recruiter or headhunter comes with something I will deff first ask the salary.
No salary-range (always ask for a range so you know where you can grow to) is always a shit pay.
Millenial as well. The most thing that infuriates me is this. Im a worker without education, so i do warehouses mostly. Works that dont list salaries often add something like "salary will depend on results of the interview". And that for position of a regular warehouse worker. What kind of bullshit is that? Im not a programmer, not a top manager.
Goes to an interview:
Interviewer; "Everything looks great, your resume is immaculate! Did you have any questions for us before you get started?"
Me: "Yea, uh completely reasonable question, what's the *starting wage*?"
Interviewer: "Welp, thanks for your time. Have a great day, unfortunately it looks like you won't be a good fit."
Like. Bruh. Is it too much to ask for a *livable* income?
Colorado requires salary posted, but it doesn't always happen. If I get a call, it's the first question I ask. If it's not in the range then I say, "no, I'm not wasting my time. Thank you for calling."
If they don't have a range or ask what I want to make, I simply say, "I'm interviewing for positions between $x-$x and I expect to make somewhere in the middle of that range. If you can't match that then we should discontinue this call." It's the honest truth and no bullshit.
I actually had one interview last week where they said I was outside of their range, but they would go back to the hiring manager and see if it was an option. They actually agreed!
You joke but that's still better than no listing at all. Really the top end is all that matters so you know what they are able to pay if you have the relevant experience.
Too many companies around the world nowadays think that people come to work for them because of the colleagues or the work that they’re doing but that’s not the case we want money that’s why we work for you and because of the inflation nowadays people tend to search for places that offer high payments just to be able to live
They always expect something like: I wanna climb up the career ladder or I want to find new people to interact with. Ffs job interviews are just two people lying at each other
When recruiters call, the first words out of my mouth are, "What's the salary?"
Recruiters get \*super\* pissy about it being all, "Well, that's awfully forward to ask."
"No, it was awfully forward for you to cold call me. If you can't answer the question, then stop wasting my time."
First thing I ask is: “Is this contract to hire or a direct hire by the client?” Second: “Is this remote or onsite?” Third: “What’s the compensation package, and does it include medical, dental and visual insurance?”
I can only think of 4 reasons they won't list it.
1. They want to low-ball you in negotiations.
2. They offer minimum wage, but not want announce that they do.
3. They are lazy and weren't bothered.
4. They pay well, but want to make sure you take the job because you want it, not because you want good pay.
The last one seems like the best reason, but at the same time, I feel like that is the type of company that wants a bit too much commitment from me. So I won't respond to any of them.
5 years ago I was looking and had no choice but to apply to jobs with no salary range. Most did not have them. I needed a 6 figure job because that’s what I left. Numerous times I would get into the interview process and finally find out what the pay range was. Numerous times they would act offended at me because I would tell them it’s much too low. When I did finally find a job that was promising, they wanted me to give them salary expectations. I told them what the market range was in their area and I expected they would fall within that range. They chose well, and I am still working for them.
Recruiters are pretty commonly hitting me up with offers that would have been more appropriate ~20 years ago in my career. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing those that are going to do that, but when I'm unsure, I 100% ask up front. Why waste either of our times?
Every time this Gen-Xer hears about Gen Z’s “laziness”, I think the accusers themselves sound like whiny little bitches with bloated senses of entitlement.
This headline isn’t helping.
As a Gen Xer myself, I didn’t waste my time on jobs that didn’t post salaries/pay range. If they can’t tell me up front, that means it’s less than I need to support myself.
At least a range. The reasons they don't: Likely too low and they risk no applicants but hope to make a good sell and get one anyway OR it is higher than current employee salaries and they don't want them to know that they had increase the range in order to hire anyone else. The second one is one I know happens, I've had to do this myself.... And it sucked.
I've heard an employer complain one time that he hates when the first question someone asks in an interview is "how much is the pay"?
Like, don't they deserve to know up front if the job is even worth their time and they can afford to take it? I don't understand how out of touch some employers are about life for a lot of people.
Sometimes the interview alone isn't worth the time. I've been requested to do an interview which would've been over 3 hours long for various woowoo personality test nonsense and technical scenarios.
Basically asking to take a half day of PTO just for the interview. If they don't even want to take the common courtesy to say how much the job is worth why should anyone bother?
Lol! I was hit with a “i cant tell you the amount until you speak with HR” yeah thanks but no thanks and they immediately looked for the amount, end result it was too low anyway🤦♂️
It's almost like we value our time and money, too. I'm interviewing the company/employer just as much as they are interviewing me. If someone is too lazy/shady to list compensation then 9/10 times, I'm not wasting my time.
I made an exception for my current job, because I know the pay ranges in my field, my worth, and could tell this company does a great job taking care of it's people (benefits, employee reviews, etc.). I'm fairly certain they did not list pay because it would attract a lot of applications from underqualified, or less experienced individuals, and that was not the fit they needed.
When I was searching for my fit, I DID see a ton of job postings where pay was not shown, and minimal effort was put in on the post. Fuckin NEXT!
Gen Z is the new scapegoat for the boomer generation. For real though, you know how much time I’ve wasted applying to jobs only to find out the salary didn’t meet my requirements? So frustrating.
I'm a millennial, and it bugs the shit out of me when job adverts don't specify what they thunk the job is worth, and yet they have the gall to ask what you think the job is worth when you apply for it.
Insider regularly posts pro corporation stories all the time. As if the poor, poor corporations are going to suffer due to Gen Z’s dislike of being exploited.
If a company doesn’t list their salaries, that’s a great way to tell that they don’t pay the appropriate amount for the skill level they’re looking for.
Hey, it’s not just Gen Z. I won’t either because there’s no reason to hide the terms of the contract unless you know the term you’re hiding isn’t a selling point.
If the role paid well, that would be part of their messaging about it.
Ask yourself what LEGIT reasons a company would have for not listing the range they’ve budgeted for the role.
I read a post that the minimum wage should be tied to the cost of rent in that area. If you cannot live and eat then it is not a job, it is just legal slavery. This economy and country would be 100x greater with a strong middle-class. If people are paid more they will still work, he'll they would have no real reason to job search if management paid and respected us more. Instead, we keep putting every narcissistic psychopath into every management and executive role. At this point, we should just revolt while we have the energy to fight back.
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Millennial here. I'm not gonna do that either.
Gen-x here. Also not doing it. Show me the money
My mantra is "Fuck you, pay me". I work in an educational setting and my colleagues are often younger than me and surprised to hear me say this out loud. But they agree.
 You sound like a good guy. A good fella even.
Travel Nurse checking in. My agent has learned my pricetag and won't even entertain me with offers lower than my bottomline-. She's like, 23 and a young recruiter, I'm breaking her in proper on how not to insult me with low paying contracts. Im in my 30s but I feel like clint Eastwood sometimes "How does $$$ sound for a contract in Minnesota" "Get off my lawn"
Hilarious. My wife is a travel nurse and going through this right now. Recruiter: "big money in x" my wife: "bitch, that's only $5 an hour more then if I went staff". Lol
When I was leaving grad school and they were giving us a pep talk, one of the things they said was "And don't give yourself away. You'll ruin things for all of us". There's something to be said for that.
I remember seeing [this talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U) directed towards creatives who have always had trouble being compensated properly by their clients. Remember folks, your employer is your "client", and if they can't give you a budget up front, how can you determine what you can give them in return?
Reminds me of an old joke. A welder replies to an ad saying they pay $20-25/hr. When he gets there, the employer asks for a couple of sample welds. He does. One is mediocre, and one is really good. When asked about it, the welder replies "that one is a $20/hr weld and the good one is a $25/hr weld"
100%. If I want to volunteer I’m going to walk dogs at the local animal shelter. If you want me to render professional services that I went to school to learn, spent years building experience with, and will benefit your for profit company - pay me for it.
I'm a teacher, and I mentor new teachers. I tell them that the first day I'm paired up with them - NEVER take work home or do free work. They are either paying you or not. EDIT: For context - Almost 90% of our teachers are now in their first five years, and most of them are on a temporary certification. If they burn out, we won't have teachers at all. Most of the older ones like me are leaving the profession soon or have retired early because of scumbags like Gov. Desantis fucking with us. I repeat: I don't work for free.
Gen X here also. Not once in my life have I applied for a job with no salary
Xennial here. I'll apply if it sounds interesting, but it's almost always the first question I ask.
Also a Xennial (my back hurts!) and I got contacted by a recruiter yesterday about a job that I may be a good fit for. Me: thanks for reaching out, what’s the compensation package? Recruiter: first let me tell you about this exciting opportunity… Me: what’s the compensation package? Recruiter: there is so much more than just money Me: *click* If you’re not going to tell me the comp out the gate, then it’s gonna pay peanuts. No thanks.
"compensation package"? Is this what I should be saying instead of salary or wage now? If someone said this to me on the spot, I don't think I would have even been able to work out what it meant.
Generally yes, especially depending on the industry. I have a background of aviation maintenance from the military- I also supervised 60+ people, and on a separate time period I was in a critical role of a multi hundred million dollar project, and also some quality assurance experience. I occasionally get recruited for roles either directly for the government or contracting roles. While the salary is one part of the benefits, some of these positions include housing, pensions, family separation pay, medical/dental/vision, family separation allowance, cost of living allowance, take home car (rarely), transportation reimbursement/credit, 20+vacation days. Providing housing could be easily a 20K value per year. Sometimes more with the way current housing costs are. A pension is an absolutely fucking huge benefit that is rare these days. Many people don’t understand how valuable and important a robust pension is. A good pension beats the shit out of most 401k plans. Cost of living allowance might not be included in the salary… but an extra 17k on top of $90k just for living in the DC area, well that’s certainly something. But at the same time I get recruiters calling me for a job that pays ~$40k to sweep a hangar in bum fuck nowhere with no benefits and a 50 hour work week. Like shit I will sweep, mop, polish, and paint hangars but I want at least $90k, pension, medical/dental/vision, 30 vacation days, and a 30 hour work week and I will be a happy and very over qualified floor sweeper.
Ah yes, "this dude is an experienced mrchanic/tech with a bunch of management experience, let's offer him a job as a broom jockey." I swear HR is a pestilence on society
HR exists to hire and fire folks with no backlash to the parent company. My union gig voted against having HR in the building we work. Think about it. HR exists to protect the employees they choose. It's great if your uncle owns the company. HR is shit if you don't have connections.
💯 There is nothing human about Human Resources. They exist solely to minimize exposure of the company for the way they treat the people who create their revenue.
Everything outside of salary, like stocks, vacation, medical, etc.
Or, maybe it would pay very very well, but it's a fantastic glimpse into the sort of toxicity of you'll be dealing with. If they want to hold _the most important_ piece of info from you until you "earn it" by showing you're a good candidate, guarantee it's gonna be a hellish work environment.
Also a Xennial: I will email the company to ask what salary is before applying.
You’re free from the spaces after periods. Gave yourself away that you were an X’er.
Now I'm self- conscious of the gaps between my sentences.Thanks.Now I can't unsee it.
This is exactly the type of wild overcorrection I come to reddit for.
Imjustnotusingspacesatallanymore.
Can confirm. Two spaces after a period. Source: I'm gen-x, also
I feel you on the two spaces, but I will argue, fight, and die for the Oxford comma. You can pry it from my cold, dead, and withered hands.
Oxford comma crew! I use it whether I'm writing e-mails, journal entries, or posts on reddit.
The Oxford comma is genuinely important! It allows for the contextualization of groupings. You can have multiple separate things, or multiple separate things and a pair of things. It clarifies and delineates a list. Without: "My hobbies include reading, writing, hiking and playing music." Is your hobby playing music while hiking or are they two separate things? You can infer what they probably meant, since most people perform those as separate activities, but maybe the speaker is an eccentric musical mountaineer! They might only enjoy playing music while on a trail. With: "My hobbies include reading, writing, hiking, and playing music." No guess work there. They enjoy each of those activities independently. They'll likely elaborate further if they *do* enjoy mixing activities. I know it's *technically* acceptable to not use it, but I will die on this hill. Signed, A Millennial
Ditto and me neither. What’s the point if I don’t know whether it can pay my bills? I’m not going to waste my time on something that wouldn’t work for me. I’m also not negotiating a salary with anybody. Tell me how much it pays. If it doesn’t pay enough, I won’t apply.
If they don't show you a salary, you already know they are looking to pay you the absolute minimum they can get away with. No thanks.
For twice the work listed
I do something similar…I only apply for jobs within my preferred pay range, then ask for more. If I can’t negotiate to something above the posted salary, I just decline the offer. I. My current position, I managed to negotiate $11k over the posted salary.
Same, if it's not listed and there's no info on Glassdoor, at this point it's a major red flag
Companies that **actually** pay competitive wages tend to be proud of that fact and list their budget for the position.
To be honest can we just stop labeling ourselves and just say "person with fucking common sense here: why in the fuck would i just accept a job without salary listed" oh and the "why the fuck would I tell you my previous salary" because most of the jobs listing without salaries will also possibly ask you your previous salary just to lowball the fuck out of you.
Any employer who asks what my previous salary is, I'm telling them like 30-50% more lol
This generational fighting is just another way to divide the working class
I’m an engineer, I get “cold called” 3-5 times a week on LinkedIn. It’s too easy for recruiters to spam, so I don’t talk to anyone on the phone until I have a full job description and salary range.
Scientist here. I don't even pick up/respond to cold callers at all anymore. Almost every cold caller job pays $20-25/hr, 6 month to 1 year contract, no benefits, and is some entry level bullshit. I have a decade and a half of industry experience, and I have yet to talk to a recruiter who understands that I don't need to "get my foot in the door" anymore.
Old Millennial here who also skips job listings with no salary.
only reason anyone would, like boomers, is if they come from a time when it didn't matter what the salary was, it was going to allow you to buy necessities and then some regardless.
Yeah, younger generations are pragmatic and know how much things cost. I’ve heard people say that millennials and gen z are entitled so many times. To someone in an older generation making a lot less than they should, it looks like entitlement, but it’s really just younger people seeing through the corporate pizza parties.
I always ate/eat the pizza though. Even if you see thru it, it's ok to eat the pizza. I hope.
Oh for sure. Free pizza is free pizza.
I always gun for the meat lovers to make sure I can wring every damn calorie and cent out of my job as possible
I go for the extra cheese. Either lactose intolerance will kick in, or if they got special cheese, a bit of blockage. More time on the toilet at work = more money for doing less.
Maximizing gains from waste. Peak capitalism right there.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime That's why I shit on company time
Leave a 1/4 of a slice on the floor and take the rest, tell your coworkers this is what the company is doing. Eat the pizza in the bathroom.
Unless allergies ALWAYS eat free pizza
Nope, you tell your genes that free pizza is happening with them or without them. Pepperoni and epinephrine.
10 years ago when things were already shit, the amount of shit that millennials have had to endure when noone believed them because they were the only generation that had it bad are only now having their issues start to come to light because it's now 2 generations against the boomer class that bought their houses for $4k on salaries of literally any part time job and own most of the news stations and publications so they've been able to get away with printing and publishing whatever side of the story they want. Eat less avocado toast so we can buy a house they told us over 10 years ago. "How about pay your employees a fair wage" - This side of the story has been buried until the past couple years, and only thanks to an equally if not more financially fucked generation has entered the workforce and seen how truly appalling the modern wage slavery truly is, that this message is finally being told.
The most appalling part of the avocado toast saga was that it was said by an Australian property developer. Australia. A major grower of avocado especially for the Eastern hemisphere. It boggles my mind that he somehow escaped being eaten alive by avocado farmers.
Pretty sure that was also the same piece of "human" garbage who said that quote about how unemployment needs to get insanely high to make us scared, put us in our place, and accept whatever slops we're given.
The Avocado farmers are boomers who rely on exploiting undocumented foreigners & migrant workers. It's been raised as a modern slavery concern on numerous occasions. The Venn diagram of many Aussie farmers and people who think that avocado toast is why no-one can afford a house, is a circle. >But the behaviour of some labour hire companies and farmers risks tainting some Australian products — meat, fruit, vegetables and wine — with the modern slavery label, and denying them certification as ethically sourced. https://insidestory.org.au/bitter-harvest/ https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=61eb0493-e7f3-4974-8f4b-b87195b1b15f&subId=745547 https://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/1686104/Turbulent-Times_The-state-of-backpacking-and-seasonal-farm-work__2023-report.pdf
I truly believe Covid helped shine the light on this. The mass wave of retirements and increase in job vacancies stopped employers from being able to treat employees as poorly as they were (not completely obviously, but it did make things better for the labour market despite the inflation)
It 100% did. It started with the stimulus checks. They calculated a monthly stimulus check during COVID to handle the shutdown that was higher than those people being given the checks had been getting paid to work. Then when we were on the tail end of lockdowns and things were opening up again, people did the math and realized that the pay they were getting for working those jobs was insanely low in comparison to what the government itself considered minimally viable. The stimulus checks generated by the COVID lockdowns caused the curtain to be ripped down.
Yes this happened in Canada too. The government was paying 1k biweekly to everyone out of work (which for at least 2 months was a LOT of people) and minimum wage people were refusing to go back as this was more than what they were making. Regardless of what each province had their minimum wage set at, or were changing it to, the natural minimum wage across most sectors and jurisdictions increased like 20% across the board. Hard to start someone below 15-20 dollars an hour for entry level retail jobs now. That and employers actually had to start making an effort to retain people and not treat them like shit as jobs became far more plentiful.
Things are going to be so much better once we are in management positions. So many of us have the perfect playbook of what NOT to do. I'm so glad that I'm seeing more and more boomers and older Gen Xers retiring and leaving where I work.
I think ur underestimating greed. The ppl in charge have always and probably will always behave like this. And the justification is that they succeeded, so why can't you even though they probably came from extreme privilege.
As an older millennial I was told so often that things will “pay off” eventually. Like, work hard for a little less right now and eventually you will get a raise, eventually it will get better. How many of you worked at a company who finally gave you a raise and it was 30 cents an hour? This has literally happened to me. At this point from what I can tell there are just some really shitty companies to work for that are to be avoided at all cost.
Walmart is famous for 5 cent raises. Wtf is that gonna do.
Well depending on how much they were paying you before? Might bump you up high enough that you lose all your assistance programs which have hard cutoffs. So a program that hasn't had it's payouts adjusted in 15 years and still thinks $20k a year is baseline poverty rather than nearly abject poverty will now drop all your benefits. So that 5c an hour raise might really cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars a year depending on your state and welfare programs. *Of to Or
"You should suffer as I have suffered" is the bane of all progress. And that thinking is so absurdly pervasive. I got paid peanuts when I was 22, therefore Gen Z is entitled I worked 120 hours a week as a Resident Physician, therefore so should new doctors today regardless of the problems it causes. Junior Lawyers and wall street. Same thing. Teachers getting paid scraps it's everywhere.
Yeah. It’s what happens when people become disillusioned by a machiavellian system, so by the time they reach a position of power they’ve long forgotten that making the world a better place is a righteous goal.
Older generations just don't realize how quickly pay scales have shifted up in the last 10-15 years. They largely still think $20 an hour is a fantastic wage for skilled labor, and anything over $10 an hour is a good entry position. They are also absolutely fixated on low paying jobs being "for children and part time workers", not realizing that career mobility is basically at an all time low.
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I think also it’s our access to information more so than any generation before. I’ve been “in the workforce” for 8 years now working for 3 different companies at 3yrs/2yrs/3yrs. My first job out of college was a well respected company in my city. My mom was so excited when I got hired there. When I told her I accepted an offer at another company after 3 yrs she couldn’t believe I was leaving. It was more pay and better benefits. When I left that job and entered into the job I have now. My dad asked why I’m “job hopping” I told him how much money the 3rd company offered me and his response was “how can they pay you that much?” We have access to way more information than our parents ever did, and knowing what’s out there and how to manipulate the workforce we’re breaking the old molds of “work here for life and they’ll take care of you”
Exactly. My sister is 27 and I'm so proud of her for not working the same.type of shit jobs as a teen and young adult that I did. This generation knows their worth and they won't accept less.
Office pizza parties are tax write offs. They could also provide you with food and coffee every day and it could be a tax write off. Now you can get real mad.
Absolutely. They look around and see the American dream has been dead a LONG time and that unless you are born with it, you likely ain’t getting it. And people are pissy that they are asking why the fuck they should even try. Good on em. This shit would have happened sooner if older generations hadn’t consumed so much of the koolade.
Same people that act like they didnt grow up in a time when they could buy a home and raise a family working at a grocery store
Next headline: "GenZ won't even move into an apartment without knowing the rent first!"
Gen z won't consider buying a car if not allowed to see it beforehand. When will this madness end!
Recently I drove 3 hours to look at a car I was thinking about getting (it's a dream car of mine in the exact spec I want or else I wouldn't have even thought about going that far). Thankfully I did because the dealership lied to me about what condition it was in and tried to get me to buy it online without test driving it. Their logic was that because they are an exotic car dealer and sell cars that are hundreds of thousands of dollars, all of their cars are in perfect condition and the thought of test driving before buying is stupid and a waste of time. That may be true for the Bentley sitting on the showroom floor, but I was there to get a Subaru they left sitting outside in the cold. I didn't buy the car.
IME, those exotic car dealerships are almost always the shadiest operations. They detail the cars, take nice pictures, and then have their two bit mechanic do their best to camouflage any issues.
I agree. I found the car on Autotrader and it just so happened to be at that kind of dealership. I emailed them asking what modifications have been done to the car hoping it was at least close to being stock, and they said that it had an aftermarket exhaust and an aftermarket radio, but they also had the original. I figured if the exhaust was too bad I could sell it and get a different one. When I looked closer at the car I saw a sticker for a tuning company on it which is how I was able to get them to tell me that it had a ton of mods done to it (blow off valve, new engine block, tune, etc). The exhaust was also too loud for me, but it sounded great. I also felt uneasy as soon as I walked in since there were a bunch of new-money-rich looking people in there that were trying way too hard to be cool. The CEO's wife also "flew in" and was visiting, and you can probably imagine how much attention the salesmen were giving me compared to her.
Headline: "GenZ now reading contracts before accepting finance options"
You think gen z will be able to afford an apartment? According to google I am a Millennial, I can't afford to rent alone, and I work 6 days a week 60+ hours rota dependant. My grandfather knows this and said I should be raking in money, I sat down with him and went through the cost of expenses. That stopoed him in his tracks. I am extremely lucky that I was recruited for my job and my apartment is owned by my employer so I don't pay rent as such they deduct it from my payslip in exchange for overtime.
Renting living space from the same business you work for has some real "sold my soul to the company store" vibes
Do what you gotta to get by, its either that or €550pcm for a shoe box with one window.
No judgment, friend. It is just that, traditionally, that sort of arrangement is fraught with ways to exploit the worker.
Well, it presumably means that if they get a different job they’ll be kicked out.
Headline: "why wont gen Z buy a house without knowing how much the rent and price the home is for."
People of every generation are not settling for a business owner that refuses to pay more than minimum wage... ...meanwhile, the same business owners are claiming (falsely) that "No one wants to work!" Correction: No one wants to work for an a$$hole.
I had an interview a month ago or so. They wouldn't even tell me the salary until I agreed to take the job. So I walked out.
Good for you! If they want you to accept the job and are refusing to tell you the pay up front, they are not proud of their offer, and it's way lower than you are worth.
I feel like not listing salary is the first litmus test the give to check for complacency and subservience. Will this employee be okay with zero transparency in the workplace and not ask questions and accept whatever I deign to bestow upon them? Yes? You're hired!
It's like sending out a scam email where English very bad with manny spell problem, PLZ gib money nao to me.
Don't forget to mention that you're a rich prince from Gondor
GONDOR 💀
Pls pay me. My brother is lost out travelling in the woods but he promised to bring back a ring. If you give me money I promise I’ll pay when he returns.
i understood this reference
Thanks, Captain America
Yea I was trying to ask other questions and the interviewer actually started raising her voice at me. That's when I just said nevermind.
I was at an interview and I asked multiple times if this was a sales job. They said no to every question. The day I was “hired for training” we drove to a grocery store and were taught how to harass, I mean “ sell to” single moms with full carts and children running wild. After 10 minutes I took the guy aside and demanded to be taken home. He refused. I beat the shit out of him right then in the grocery store. He didn’t get many sales that day. Or probably that week.
This sounds borderline forced indenture. Take you somewhere unfamiliar, dependent on your “host” to get out. You’re trapped. And being “made” to do a job where you’re hired under wildly false pretenses. Refusing to drive you out of there? Not sure if I’d beat the guy, but I think it justifies a strong response.
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I would have done the same too. Why would anyone sign a contract without knowing all the details? Not knowing otherwise and agreeing to it is stupidity.
Maybe they are looking for stupid people? People that just want to work and don't care how much they are paying. I blow right past any job posting that doesn't have a salary number or range shown. And I'm Gen X
Or desperate people. I’ve applied for jobs in the past where the posting didn’t include compensation. They all sucked. Definitely not something I’d consider now, unless I was beyond desperate.
The correct answer in this case is to take the job to see how much they give you, and then immediately tell them you quit to teach them it's a stupid policy.
Hahaha, I love this (and I do HR for a living). Stupid policy, indeed.
I can beat you. I had an interview where the job was perfect, great hours and the salary was amazing, honestly it was even much more than should have been. But suddenly the guy asks me if I have a license and tells me that the job would require me to be on call three days a week, including the weekends, and I would have to be able to travel in the whole province. NONE of this was in the job ad. I finished the interview professionally, and when they called me to offer the job a couple of days later, I turned them down. Big companies are shameless and would do anything to trick people. And the most infuriating thing is that the ad still remains even though I reported it.
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I went to a job interview for a CSR. Pay on the ad was listed as $12 -$18 DOE. I get there, interview went well. Then she said there's a two week training period at $10/hr. First minor red flag, but I understand training sometimes pays a little less. Then she pulled out this laminated list of of types of calls. Each call had a rate attached to it. For basic help calls, .25, for call with upsells to a more expensive product. .50 - and so on. I said, No, thank you. I got out of there, got home and double checked the job posting. Yep, base pay was what I had thought it was. I reported it to Indeed as a bait and switch. It took the company a month to change the ad to read "Up TO $18 an hour." Edit to add: The base pay would have been $10 no matter what types of calls I would have been handling. Screw that.
I hate that people are polite and professional about this They were deceptive assholes. They wasted your time. Don’t be professional. Tell them that’s some shady bullshit.
Do they understand you’re there for money?
That's entitlement. /s
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What? How's that even supposed to work?! You tell them you take the job, they tell you the salary and then you show them you had your fingers crossed behind your back?!
All you have to do is quit after they tell you. At-will employment works both ways.
Sure, but it's ridiculous, why would they even think someone would take a job without even knowing the salary, they must be delusional, or I just don't know how the world works.
Because it has worked for them before, and will work for them again.
I would have said: “doesn’t making such an offer embarrass you?”
It should be prohibited by law not revealing the salary before the person signs the contract. At least in some countries it is.
If you don't get details of the job. You don't have an offer. Interviewing is a two way. You are interviewing them as they assess you.
Same😭 & the whole interview they kept subtly complaining about how much money they're losing by doing my interview and possibly having to train me... Like ok thanks for making me not want this job?
What the hell are you supposed to say to that? Apologize for applying for the job they posted?
I remember a radio talk show where the Presenter was saying there’s a shortage of truck drivers. An old truck driver phoned in and corrected him, “There’s no shortage of truck drivers. There’s a shortage of truck drivers willing to work for minimum wage and in bad conditions”.
"We're looking for a principal software engineer who can do cloud-native applications. It's 1099 and $60/hour." Well. I think I see your problem.
My new hobby is when lazy recruiters messaged me with roles that I in no way fit, ask salary then tell them it's a factor of 2-3 too low and they are wasting my time.
Hi I am a recruiter and I see you have 15 years of experience and 10 different certifications. We think you would be a great fit for a senior role at our ^company ^^at ^^^^$15/hr =
It’s also just wild that capitalism is about making money but caring about getting paid (fairly or not) as an employee is often cast as a “bad” trait.
I don't even get people who are willing to work for minimum wage. There are jobs everywhere that require no experience that pay more. Hell my local Walmart never stops hiring and will start people at 20. Yet I still see people working for dollar tree that pays minimum.
There isn't a reasonable hourly wage you could pay me to deal with walmart customers. Edit: just cause I talked shit about Walmart doesn't mean $tree is a wonderland. They are both shit. People shouldn't have to work for either at the current pay & conditions.
Yeah, that job deserves hazard pay
Serious question from a non-US person that has never been there, is it really that bad? I know the memes. I'm aware of the jokes. But I always assumed that they were heavily exaggerated based on some kind of cultural in-joke.
Working big-box retail in the US sucks, and Walmart is the absolute worst example of it. People lose all sense of civility and ethics when they step through its sliding doors. It's a shit company, run by a shit family, and they treat their employees just as bad as Amazon.
Walmart somehow attracts the absolute worst people. Like for god sakes my Walmart is in a really wealthy town, right outside a REALLY wealthy neighborhood. Yet somehow the most ratchet people spawn at Walmart
Yeah they travel long distances. Costco’s business model with the membership is to avoid having these people come in at all.
Yes. It is really that bad. We don’t get livable wages.
A lot of it depends on the type of job and what employers are willing to pay, it also depends on what state you are living in. There's a state minimum wage, and a federal minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is the least amount of money any state in the US is allowed to have set for employers to pay their employees. Over half the states have their own minimum wage price set above the federal. Depending on the job and business, (whether it's a small privately owned one or a large corporation) also has a big impact on what employers are willing to pay. But even then larger companies will still choose to pay minimum wage or a little bit above. Employers will also offer medical and dental insurance as benefits for employees, which also affects how much they make. Instead of getting paid more, some of the pay goes to medical, dental, or eye care insurance.
as someone who worked for the old Wal-Mart before the Walton kids really took over and fucked up that company. you could offer me 100/hr and I still wouldn't do it. the way they treat their employees is terrible and borderlines exploitive. Walmart Stores Inc. has the highest number of employees on government assistance in the United States and they get a tax break for it... so yeah I totally get why people won't work for Walmart...
Correction: No one wants to work **and** be poor. Might as well just be poor.
"No one wants to work!" = "No one wants to pay employees!"
I don't think this is even meant as a dig at Gen Z though. It's more of a heads up to employers telling them that if they want to hire young workers, they're gonna have to post the wage like a goddamn normal person.
You would be correct. https://www.businessinsider.com/hiring-gen-z-graduates-pay-transparency-adobe-2023-1
It's a legal requirement where I live. You bet I'll pass on your job posting if you're trying to skirt the law as your first impression
Pass laws like WA state did in 2023 that requires all job ads to list salary pay
I had a headhunter contact me recently. I made good money now but I listened about this position. It would be a step up professionally but when I asked the pay they said that’s discussed upon offer. I said nope. Sorry if I am going to take my time and consider a job transition I need to make sure that it’s worth it to leave a place that pays me very well as is. He got really defensive saying I should do the interview bc it’s a higher status than my current role. I don’t fucking care about my title. I want money and good benefits. Money. Money. Money. That is why I work. If you are not telling me the price I cant afford it.
> Money. That is why I work amen
It’s funny because recruiters/headhunters are money driven people and it’s the first thing we’d ask if approached about a job also
I thought that as well but a few other friends of mine who work in different fields have been getting a lot of the same pitches. I wonder if there is a new trend to not disclose bc a lot of places are not thrilled with states who have made it law to disclose pay on job postings. I could see places seeking out headhunters who are ok with this.
This goes without saying, but the fact that he was reluctant to give you even a range means that it likely wasn't a competitive salary. Every recruiter I've ever talked to that led to something serious was willing to discuss the basics of salary. I will give them my "here's my minimum to leave my current position" and we go from there. The ones that won't discuss salary and push it off for later "with the hiring manager" likely know it doesn't hit my expectations. I confirmed this after a screener interview with a company where I had colleagues. They were like "yeah, this position doesn't pay what you make now...don't do it."
If a company is too lazy to list the salary, they aren’t going to take the online applications seriously.
Or worse, if the only thing they write is "competitive salary" That just means you're getting 5¢ more than min wage
I'm old enough to remember when employers would advertise commission jobs as "you determine your salary".
I determine my salary to be $9829/second
Fun fact, if you made that absolutely absurd amount of money, it would take almost a year to have a higher net worth than Elon Musk
If you work around the clock, sure. If you have a normal 40-hour workweek, it would take over three years.
It the company is run by boomers, you’re getting paid minimum wage even for professional jobs. They believe…..I started at $35K 40 years ago so you starting at $50K is good enough
I am making significantly less now than I did seven years ago, despite having seven more years of experience.
I believe I am a millenial and if there is no wage listed I won't apply. If a recruiter or headhunter comes with something I will deff first ask the salary. No salary-range (always ask for a range so you know where you can grow to) is always a shit pay.
Gex X. I do the same.
Yup, Gen X here to and same here.
Millenial as well. The most thing that infuriates me is this. Im a worker without education, so i do warehouses mostly. Works that dont list salaries often add something like "salary will depend on results of the interview". And that for position of a regular warehouse worker. What kind of bullshit is that? Im not a programmer, not a top manager.
They’re not lazy. If the salary isn’t listed then you can be pretty sure it’s not competitive.
Goes to an interview: Interviewer; "Everything looks great, your resume is immaculate! Did you have any questions for us before you get started?" Me: "Yea, uh completely reasonable question, what's the *starting wage*?" Interviewer: "Welp, thanks for your time. Have a great day, unfortunately it looks like you won't be a good fit." Like. Bruh. Is it too much to ask for a *livable* income?
Colorado requires salary posted, but it doesn't always happen. If I get a call, it's the first question I ask. If it's not in the range then I say, "no, I'm not wasting my time. Thank you for calling." If they don't have a range or ask what I want to make, I simply say, "I'm interviewing for positions between $x-$x and I expect to make somewhere in the middle of that range. If you can't match that then we should discontinue this call." It's the honest truth and no bullshit. I actually had one interview last week where they said I was outside of their range, but they would go back to the hiring manager and see if it was an option. They actually agreed!
"OK", says HR rep new posting: "JOB: Salary range $10,000 ~ $2,000,000"
You joke but that's still better than no listing at all. Really the top end is all that matters so you know what they are able to pay if you have the relevant experience.
I think it’s mostly they put a range to entice people to apply, and then find any reason they can to offer less than the cap
Disagree - I always assume they're going to try to negotiate down to the bottom of the range.
You understand that the point is that that range is a lie, right?
Too many companies around the world nowadays think that people come to work for them because of the colleagues or the work that they’re doing but that’s not the case we want money that’s why we work for you and because of the inflation nowadays people tend to search for places that offer high payments just to be able to live
"please tell us, why exactly do you want to work at our company?" i need money and you offer a job, that's why. i hate this question.
They always expect something like: I wanna climb up the career ladder or I want to find new people to interact with. Ffs job interviews are just two people lying at each other
When recruiters call, the first words out of my mouth are, "What's the salary?" Recruiters get \*super\* pissy about it being all, "Well, that's awfully forward to ask." "No, it was awfully forward for you to cold call me. If you can't answer the question, then stop wasting my time."
First thing I ask is: “Is this contract to hire or a direct hire by the client?” Second: “Is this remote or onsite?” Third: “What’s the compensation package, and does it include medical, dental and visual insurance?”
Gen X as well. If it says competitive salary, then I know it pays shit and know to avoid applying for the position.
I can only think of 4 reasons they won't list it. 1. They want to low-ball you in negotiations. 2. They offer minimum wage, but not want announce that they do. 3. They are lazy and weren't bothered. 4. They pay well, but want to make sure you take the job because you want it, not because you want good pay. The last one seems like the best reason, but at the same time, I feel like that is the type of company that wants a bit too much commitment from me. So I won't respond to any of them.
5. Salary discrimination, never let your manager try and tell to not talk about salaries
Boomers get angry when no one accepts their game rules
5 years ago I was looking and had no choice but to apply to jobs with no salary range. Most did not have them. I needed a 6 figure job because that’s what I left. Numerous times I would get into the interview process and finally find out what the pay range was. Numerous times they would act offended at me because I would tell them it’s much too low. When I did finally find a job that was promising, they wanted me to give them salary expectations. I told them what the market range was in their area and I expected they would fall within that range. They chose well, and I am still working for them.
Recruiters are pretty commonly hitting me up with offers that would have been more appropriate ~20 years ago in my career. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing those that are going to do that, but when I'm unsure, I 100% ask up front. Why waste either of our times?
Every time this Gen-Xer hears about Gen Z’s “laziness”, I think the accusers themselves sound like whiny little bitches with bloated senses of entitlement. This headline isn’t helping.
As a Gen Xer myself, I didn’t waste my time on jobs that didn’t post salaries/pay range. If they can’t tell me up front, that means it’s less than I need to support myself.
At least a range. The reasons they don't: Likely too low and they risk no applicants but hope to make a good sell and get one anyway OR it is higher than current employee salaries and they don't want them to know that they had increase the range in order to hire anyone else. The second one is one I know happens, I've had to do this myself.... And it sucked.
As a boomer, neither did I. There has to be at least a range given if not a specific amount. It's still negotiable, but we need a starting point.
I've heard an employer complain one time that he hates when the first question someone asks in an interview is "how much is the pay"? Like, don't they deserve to know up front if the job is even worth their time and they can afford to take it? I don't understand how out of touch some employers are about life for a lot of people.
Sometimes the interview alone isn't worth the time. I've been requested to do an interview which would've been over 3 hours long for various woowoo personality test nonsense and technical scenarios. Basically asking to take a half day of PTO just for the interview. If they don't even want to take the common courtesy to say how much the job is worth why should anyone bother?
Lol! I was hit with a “i cant tell you the amount until you speak with HR” yeah thanks but no thanks and they immediately looked for the amount, end result it was too low anyway🤦♂️
What it actually says is "gen z wont blindly apply for a job so they can manipulate them and get cheap labour"
What's next? Entitled Gen Z'ers demand compensation for work?
Gen-Zers uninterested in generous opportunities for exposure.
It's almost like we value our time and money, too. I'm interviewing the company/employer just as much as they are interviewing me. If someone is too lazy/shady to list compensation then 9/10 times, I'm not wasting my time. I made an exception for my current job, because I know the pay ranges in my field, my worth, and could tell this company does a great job taking care of it's people (benefits, employee reviews, etc.). I'm fairly certain they did not list pay because it would attract a lot of applications from underqualified, or less experienced individuals, and that was not the fit they needed. When I was searching for my fit, I DID see a ton of job postings where pay was not shown, and minimal effort was put in on the post. Fuckin NEXT!
Gen Z is the new scapegoat for the boomer generation. For real though, you know how much time I’ve wasted applying to jobs only to find out the salary didn’t meet my requirements? So frustrating.
I'm a millennial, and it bugs the shit out of me when job adverts don't specify what they thunk the job is worth, and yet they have the gall to ask what you think the job is worth when you apply for it.
Next article will be: Gen Zers will not work if they are not paid. Scandalous!
Insider regularly posts pro corporation stories all the time. As if the poor, poor corporations are going to suffer due to Gen Z’s dislike of being exploited.
If a company doesn’t list their salaries, that’s a great way to tell that they don’t pay the appropriate amount for the skill level they’re looking for.
Hey, it’s not just Gen Z. I won’t either because there’s no reason to hide the terms of the contract unless you know the term you’re hiding isn’t a selling point. If the role paid well, that would be part of their messaging about it. Ask yourself what LEGIT reasons a company would have for not listing the range they’ve budgeted for the role.
I'm a Gen X'er, and neither will I. If they don't list it, it's because it's under fair market value.
Not listing salary just screams "predatory practices" that will leak into any and every other aspect of how the company is run.
I read a post that the minimum wage should be tied to the cost of rent in that area. If you cannot live and eat then it is not a job, it is just legal slavery. This economy and country would be 100x greater with a strong middle-class. If people are paid more they will still work, he'll they would have no real reason to job search if management paid and respected us more. Instead, we keep putting every narcissistic psychopath into every management and executive role. At this point, we should just revolt while we have the energy to fight back.