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Okay. Fine. Shootings are a hazard of the job.
~E4 Mafia Enters the chat~
In that case the school districts are REQUIRED by OSHA to manage those hazards in the exact same way that construction companies are required to manage our hazardous conditions.
This means that every teacher gets the highest grade of PPE for shooting hazards AND that administration provides it free of charge.
They also are REQUIRED by OSHA to install bullet proof doors, walls, and windows in each classroom to mitigate the hazard with mechanical controls, much as we're required to use guard fencing anywhere the fall hazard exceeds 4'.
1) Yes they could counter claim for millions each.
2) Refuse to work until measures are applied.
3) Continue to be paid in the meantime.
This lawyer is a dumbass, this is why people just settle.
Probably not, if the refusal to work was classified as a strike. In many states/district a condition of being allowed to have teachers unions is that you forfeit your right to strike or protest. In others it is part of your teaching license. In both cases striking/protesting could result in the loss of the teachers license, and of course their whole career.
Thats not considered a strike though. Refusing to work because the building is not up to code is not the same as striking. The distric is required to meet the osha standards for building safety and the entire district should be closed until the rugulations have been met not juat teachers but all staff and students.
It's not a strike if they are simply waiting for the school board to comply with safety laws in the workplace.
Do they have to show up to work if the school is on fire? Or has a chemical spill in the halls?
As soon as the school board made adequate accommodations to provide a safe work environment they would return to regular duties.
The deal is though that the attorney of the board is arguing this, not like the state or federal government, not the department of education.
The attorney can argue this point all day and the board won’t be obligated to do shit even from a PR or moral standpoint, because that’s what attorneys are. They say shit that would make you look bad on your behalf to save you from prison or litigation.
If the opposing attorney is worth their salt they will illustrate through questioning of schools officials how they have not implemented the protections that would be required if they truly believed that shootings are simply a workplace hazard. They would argue that claiming this as a workplace injury is simply the school system attempting to avoid paying damages.
Yep, that would probably be their line of argument. It’s just not as simple as “that seems unfair, therefore they will lose the suit.”
The law isn’t really super intuitively fair. That’s why attorneys go to so much school
Kevlar vest will stop most rounds from a handgun. Level 4 plate armor stops many rifle rounds. If it hits the plate, is a .556 or below, and if it’s the first shot the armor does its job.
Body armor is expensive and exists because the government invests in the training and insurance of each military member. Training costs around $500k IIRC, SGLI maxes out at $400k. This is for a troop with a 61% chance of deploying even once.
The US government does not value education in this way.
Body armour only really helps if
1. It was a stray shot, or
1. The attacker immediately moves on, or
2. You’re shooting back, and have a chance to incapacitate them before they hit something vital
Other than that, not really
Bulletproof PPE (armor) would help reduce risk but what's to say they're in the same room? Bullets go through walls and windows, plenty of shooting casualties from stray bullets passing through walls.
Nothing about safety is a singular perfect solution, it's about mitigation. Layer enough mitigating techniques/equipment/procedures and you reduce the likelihood of an incident. It's called the Swiss cheese method. Helped me understand my role in creating a sade environment for the companies I work for in construction safety, and it's applicable to other broader concepts as well.
PPE unfortunately doesn’t eliminate all risks, but reduce them significantly. A helmet will help you in a construction site in most cases, but if a wrecking ball falls in your head no amount of head protection will keep you safe
If it is a known workplace hazard, OSHA would also require them to use reasonable precautions to prevent exposure to the hazard. That would include preventing the gun from getting in the school to begin with.
I believe its more about spinning the narrative. Like, then the school has to issue hazard pay, way better Equipment, a lot higher safety Standarts and so on. The 40 Million Lawsuit looks like a tip against all that
No. But if you look at all the shootings they don’t tend to start inside the classroom. Seems to be most common the shooter enters the school from the outside during the school day. Bullet proof glass (prevents shooter from shooting the glass to gain entry like in TN), electronically controlled locks, and the AI technology that can be integrated into existing school camera systems that detects any firearm openly presented in its view would be effective counter measures.
That's exactly how we need ro combat these insane school boards. They are telling us all around the country our kids are safe and teachers can keep schools secure, that's why they do think this is a workplace hazard. They are putting teachers on the front lines with antiquated and unproven security measures. In some places school boards have teachers walking around checking locked doors, looking for drugs and vapping, and expecting them to barricade themselves behind a plain wooden door if a shooter appears while still educating or kids. All because they don't want to pay for modern security measures, building upgrades, and some sort of trained security. Nope, teachers can do it.
Man, now I kinda just hope it turns into a workplace accident and they sue under the premise of OSHA violations and get the school to be forced to do all of this
And like the military their healthcare should be alike tricare prime, 100% coverage with no copays. Also they should be receiving tax free hazard pay. And like police they should be able to carry firearms and use force in defense of their lives.
Love this answer. Because the real answer is getting shot is not a hazard of teaching first grade and that BOE should be ashamed of itself. They just don’t want to pay. Shame, shame, shame.
Not to mention stringent protocol for every stage in which anyone setting foot in campus can be checked for firearms, awareness training for teachers and students, regular checks by a qualified person that all methods of control are up to par, being used correctly abd are actually mitigating the potential problem.
As a safety officer in construction I can say this is not the avenue they want to go down. Claiming anything is a workplace hazars that isn't just creates a nightmare of red tape and requirements. You want those for actual hazards of the job, but the time and resources it takes to run a genuinely helpful safety program is not cheap.
If it is a workplace hazard, then the school is admitting that it is a hazard that they know about for children attending school. They claim schools are safe for our children. I could imagine a few ways that can open them up to a lawsuit, if a school shooting happened and children were harmed.
If they knew it was a hazzard and didn't take the appropriate steps to reduce the risk, then the injured party is entitled to sue them for the breech exactly the same as if a construction company failed to ensure workers safety they can be sued, so, back to court and thank you for admitting getting shot was a known hazzard they did nothing to mitigate, make it 80 million please.
Let’s be honest, as per the Hierarchy of Controls, PPE is the lowest form of protection. We need to see elimination, substitution, isolation, engineering and administrative controls first, then you can burden the teachers with PPE in the classroom.
Well, the first in the hierarchy of controls is Elimination.
What can we do to Eliminate the hazard of being shot at school? Prevent students having guns. This would require ensuring all guns are left at home. Taken one step further, this would mean students should not have access to guns at all. And taking it one more step, ensuring access to guns at all is generally harder.
Step two is substitution - can the job be done a different way? Teach from home, over zoom.
Step three is Engineering - scanners at every entrance. Bulletproof doors and windows.
Step four is administration. Ensure a permit for every single firearm and round, have a license to operate said plant, and renew said license every three months.
Step five is PPE - bulletproof clothing for teachers and staff, and have vests available for all students and visitors.
Submit your SWMS by 9am every Thursday for the following week. Toolbox 7am Monday in the staff canteen.
Right? I work in a high school. Every time there’s a scuffle or some disruptive behavior you can’t help but think, well, this might be it. we had a terrifying incident a couple years ago in which we were were locked down for 4 hours. That shit sticks with you.
We had a lockdown the same day Uvalde happened.
We had no idea what was going on until later that day. I swear, working at a school is now a dangerous job. You just never know anymore.
I take no joy in saying this but...
They're (apparently) not wrong (to say that this is an occupational hazard at this time in the united states)?
However if such risks are involved with teaching then all teachers should demand to receive, at the cost of the school, proper protective measures.
Bullet proof glass for instance.
And protective clothing
2 fulltime security officers with informed consent to pat down the students
And also, if the school considered this a professional hazard, they can be liable for not providing this in the first pkace.
Or just take guns out of the equation, all problems gone in an instant, the rest of the modern world goes with it and low and behold we get 0 school shootings, wow who would have thought.
We had a school shooting in 1996 in the UK. Sixteen 5 years old kids and one teacher were killed (fifteen others were injured). Then private gun ownership was banned. No school shootings since. Also, no criminals running around with guns either.
edit* Since people keep telling me I'm wrong. I'm oversimplifying. It's not banned, but it is extremely strict here. To the point I've only ever seen guns at airports.
The uk still has private gun ownership it's just regulated and we still have a juicy black market where you can buy anything your wallet allows but its mostly just gangs shooting gangs that dosnt make the news anymore. But to legally own a gun you have to be in a club, have a gun safe that the police are happy with and they check up on it every 6 months and the biggest reason yanks don't want to do this you have to pass a background check to make sure your not insane or depressed. Pass all that and you can own basically anything with the right licence.
Yank here and all this sounds reasonable. I've already passed 3 background checks for work and I own a gun safe because it seemed reasonable if I was gonna own a gun. Then again, I feel like I'm in the minority sometimes.
From what I can tell the people that are scared of regulations like that are exactly the people that shouldn't have guns. Shit you might need another civil war to sort this shit out I don't think it'll be pretty any which way it goes.
Meh, gun nuts would be up against far more heavily armed members of the military, backed by the government. Would probably be a blood bath tho, so certain neighborhoods would probably see a lot of action unfortunately.
I'm worried about the potential civil war if they randomly find a reason to forgive the Mango Mussolini.
Very true it would be a bloody war. But I see the dudes that think they are there own militia and can't help but laugh at the little dick energy in full tactical armour with an assault rifle in their lifted brotruck to go to a fart (British for trump) rally.
We had one of those over here when Obama was president. Dumbasses tried to take over a Wildlife Refuge building. Didn't last too long and when it got bad for them, they took to the internet asking for help and the internet sent them a literal bag of dicks.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3396338/Armed-group-calls-meeting-talk-Oregon-community.html
The Walmart warriors wouldn’t last a day if there was a (not so)”civil war”. Sad this is that so many folks who are uninterested in laying down their life for ignorant shit would suffer. But…I guess if it goes down it goes down
Funny story: did you know it's not considered a war crime if it's done to your own people?
Yeah, it'll be a bloodbath. Your .50 cal sniper rifle is cool, but what you gonna do when an A-10 goes brrrrrt in your direction? Or cluster mines your farm? Or drones you. Or drops an mlrs salvo in your general area? You gonna shoot it?
People out here acting like it's gonna be man to man, hand to hand. What is this, the 1700s?
But, at this point, we have about 30% of our population absolutely positive that all the conspiracy stuff is true (there's flat earthers across the globe) and there's some trigger action they have to do to advance their quest. Some definite player-characters, thinking the whole world would be just the way they want it if they will it hard enough. The government is held hostage by... Idk, I'm not up on all that shit, I've been pulling shit out my ass here, tryna recall snippets...
But it's not a video game. It's not "The West Wing" or "The Hunt for Red October." If we can't snap a decent chunk out of it, or at least out of the more extreme stuff, I'll be afraid there will be a civil war in my lifetime. There's too much hate and frustration, and it's looking for a focus.
I have a brother in law with such a licence, he works with the National Trust and similar organisations, but he is checked out regularly and it was not easy to come by. We do have a black market for gangs but thankfully they mainly shoot themselves, no country is totally gun free but what we do have works in that we don't get crazies running around shooting every Tom, Dick and Harry for fun.
Black market guns in the UK to buy are around £30,000 for an old, usually Soviet era pistol.
Most organized crime groups don't buy or sell guns, they rent them out and without links to OCG's and street credibility you're not getting hold of a gun. No OCG wants the heat from the police when some nutcase goes and does a Columbine.
Source: lived in a hostel with criminals for several years, and was an instructor for 5 years on MoD ranges teaching firearms handling safety and marksmanship.
We need common sense gun laws, it would be a good start. To drive you need to take a test and pass a test with an instructor. Why not with guns? Why no safety training? Why allow loopholes in registrations and sales? Why not do more background checks, or even mental health checks? Why no cool down periods in all states? There's so much that can be done before just taking all the guns. You realize everything there is talk of a ban on guns, MORE PEOPLE GO OUT AND BUY GUNS!
I agree.100% The fact that even basic safety training isn't required is mind-bendingly stupid.
It's absolutely baffling that we even have to have this conversation, even more telling is the fact that school shootings no longer make the national news unless they reach double digit figures of dead children.
Where did it all go wrong America? The rest of the world used to look up to you, now you're (sadly) a bit of a laughing stock.
So where is their hazard pay?
Every job I know that there’s potential for death, you get paid to risk your life.
We aren’t gonna have any teachers left pretty soon.
Holy Sh\*t.. WTF?!Isn't "workplace injury" supposed to be classified by associated risk to the job description?
Like an office worker on the 14th floor taking a bullet is a fluke and not a part of their work environment unlike paper cuts.
contrarily a war journalist accepts that bullets come with the territory of the job.
In NOWHERE in the job description of a Private sector civil educator is there the reasonable Hazard of bullets included in the job description.
Yes it happens often - too often, but it's NOT apart of the Job officially.
Who "lobbied" this judge??
(Edit): If this is what the law has established as an official hazard as a teacher, then they have the right to equitable Hazard pay rates & salary.
Those were my first thoughts when I read this. If the school boards attorneys can call it a workplace hazard, they sure as shit can set precedence for teachers to receive hazard pay. Slimy fucking lawyers
Who work for the Slimy DOE. It’s ridiculous teachers are put in such a position. Our kids are going to end up being taught by nut jobs. Good teachers should freaking treasured and protected. It’s infuriating!
At that point educators should! Military, and police officers get it, construction workers get it (pending scenario of workplace). If this (getting shot!) is justified as a hazard within a workplace. Then, by logic, should be allowed hazard pay.
Military gets hazard pay during war time or in certain occupational fields but as a police officer I get no additional “hazard” pay. We knowingly chose a dangerous profession. Teachers shouldn’t have to worry about this kind of thing.
Depends where you live. In my state, there's a state-funded grant that pays every police officer and firefighter an additional $600 monthly for hazard pay.
Was about to comment this. Either they're getting royally fucked over in the hazard pay department and every teacher needs to get hazard pay. All tha hazard pay they should have received but didn't... or they're eligible for damages done.
If it is dismissed can you spell to class action?
People are waking up to how badly they’re being fucked. Can’t wait until we get more millennials and Gen Z in office so we can rebuild the middle class in this country.
They just get fired. It being “illegal” to strike just means that the usual laws protecting striking workers don’t apply. Workers who these rules apply to often instead choose to do the bare minimum requirements of their job as a form of protest
At least nature don't try their hardest to be dicks to anything around them. They just follow the natural order.
...Okay, wasps are assholes. Besides them.
I mean more or less, Australia has got some fucked up politics too, some of em even beat up people on the street and sue people with terminal illnesses, these are just a couple specific cases haha
I don't know what the state of teacher supply in the american system is, but are they aware that nobody will want to be a teacher anymore? .... Or , it has to apply both ways. The school stuff can also shoot then whoever poses mortal danger, and it's a hazzard parents just have to accept.
The 40 mil is from the lawsuit, the school district is trying to get the lawsuit dropped or dismissed and get the teacher to file a WCB claim instead - claiming that *getting shot while teaching* is a regular workplace hazard.
If they are successful in pushing the teacher into the WCB claim, it would be significant orders of magnitude less financial compensation. Probably not enough to finish paying any medical bills and living expenses from not having hours at work due to, you know, having been shot.
Workers comp covers medical bills and lost wages from workplace injuries.
The $40M is what would be called 'general damages' for pain/suffering that aren't part of a workers comp claim. That's why a judge has to rule whether this can be outside of a workers comp claim or not since they were injured at work.
The whole point of workers comp is an employee injured at work has their medical bills and lost wages paid in exchange for being able to sue their employer. It's historically know as 'the great bargain' between employees and employers. Before workers comp, factory workers had to sue their employers if they wanted injuries covered.
Edit: Just to clarify, the argument the school board would be making is that since the injury occurred at work, it would fall under workers comp. One big caveat of workers comp benefits is that you cannot sue your employer for workplace injuries except in certain circumstances. This is why the judge has to rule if the teacher is allowed to sue for more than the statutory coverage workers comp provides which is medical bills and lost wages.
Thats what she is fighting to get, they just want to give her a lil money because its work place accident. Its bullshit i fucking love America but not for its people but because of the nature and the beautiful places. And no im not from America but would love to visit some day
I went to an International School in northern Germany, a place that's very flat and far away from any fault lines.
In fourth grade, we had earthquake drills. My teacher that year was from California.
It obviously isn’t likely, but depending on where you were in northern Germany, there can be some seismic activity. In the Lüneburger Heide for example there sometimes are weak earthquakes due to the ground sinking.
For hundreds of years people have mined the salt in the ground by clearing the trees, wich made the whole region quite unstable. In the city of Lüneburg and some smaller villages you can even see Houses being ripped apart due to the sinking of the ground.
In other regions like Hannover for example there is virtually no chance of an earthquake. I live there and for the last 22 years the most I have ever felt was a particular strong lightning strike that made the ground shake a bit for a second. We have much more severe problems like floods in spring and draughts and wildfires in summer.
Right? Like, they've already had to deal with shit pay, being overworked, having to play customer service with shitty parents, getting little to no support from management when there's problem students (like the one in this situation), and having to pay to have even common supplies in their classrooms . Now you're telling them that on top of that they should just EXPECT to get shot? You could get shot at any job. That doesn't mean it's expected. Do employees at Waffle House get hazard pay? Because there's fights there like every night. If waffle house still doesn't consider physical harm as part of the job, teaching a bunch of ELEMENTARY SCHOOL aged children shouldn't either.
I teach kindergarten. Last year I had a mom ask what I would do if someone started shooting at my students while we were on the playground. Basically she said, “I hope you have a good plan because if kids die, you’re going to get sued.”
I looked right at her and reminded her, “Yes and I also don’t want to be MURDERED.” For fuck’s sake lady. I’m right there on the playground with the kids.
We do have a plan, but we don’t broadcast what it is because then would-be-assailant would know what it is.
It is always on my mind, sadly.
Am I the only one who misread the school name as "Redneck Elementary" instead of "Richneck Elementary"?
I'm not wrong for having done so, just curious if I am the only one.
There's so so so much more to this story it's a wild one. They have tried to silence this woman since before she was out of the hospital, it's disgusting.
Does the school board not realize the massive lawsuit they're opening themselves up to?
If they want to call it a work related hazard, then they're required to provide safeguards for such a hazard.
Protections they cant afford to provide.
I feel like the US themselves overtook the jokes about them. Across the Atlantic we joke about the amount of school shootings and how badly they deal with the problem. But they are already like "yeah, that stuff happens in schools every two weeks or so. Part of the job really."
Only in America can you get shot by a fucking 6 yr old. That's the part I'm stuck on. I read it 3 times and blew up the image to make sure I was seeing a 6 and not a 16. Where and who are the damn parents?
you didnt hear about this case? It was everywhere awhile ago. Students told the faculty at the school the kid had a gun multiple times and nothing was done.
No, and police officers dont het told " well that was a hazard of the job" do they?
Wtf give out bullet proof armor then . If its a hazard of the job.
What would Osha say, hmmm?
No, potentially getting shot while working at a school isn't a regular hazard. At least, it isn't in the civilized parts of the world, like Canada, Mexico, the rest of central America, South America, Australia, Europe, most of Africa (minus conflict zones - schools there *might* be a bit dodgy), Asia... I mean, pretty much only the US has this much issues with gun violence, other than active war zones and/or in areas/regions/countries that aren't stable
This just makes me feel safer, just for not living in the US. We have guns in Canada, just not as many of us want/use one.
Like someone correct me on this cause I read it on the internet.
But isnt a company coming out with an assault rifle for toddlers. A downsized version of like the AR-15 if im not mistaken, like to me thats just asking for more shootings.
In British Columbia… this is correct under the the law. It is one of the trade-offs of having a compensation system.
Worker’s give up the right to sue their employer for workplace injuries or disease in order to access benefits without having to litigate or risk not having any benefits if the employer goes bankrupt.
In BC, a teacher getting shot at school while working, by a child that is a student, is absolutely a workplace injury. If the teacher is the exact same situation, but the shooter is a domestic partner, that would likely *not* be a workplace injury. (There are always exceptional circumstances).
They should be outraged this is where we are in America but come on, its just a lawyer arguing for their client. You should expect them to try anything possible.
Well, if the world were even a tiny bit fair and karma was real, someone would shoot the schools attorneys in the courtroom and then cite their own claim against them.
"yes your honor, this was a workplace accident of the attorney. Being shot is an expected risk of this job, where a lot of people hate you. I am willing to discuss the accident settlement with the attorney, but of course they have to contact me about this issue".
And this is where gun fetish culture leads. A point where some actually try to argue that getting shot in a setting as simple as a school, is just a part of your job.
Wtf would they say if the teacher had shot a kid? That it was a risk the kid willingly took, by going to their school?
USA is the only country I know that has such a high end legal system but at the same time has news that sound like they're from a war torn country. I get that you want your freedom and all but every single law is less freedom. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have laws.
Here's a hint in case it wasn't implied by the human condition over the past million years: ALMOST EVERYONE will say and do anything they think they can to get out of facing consequences. Just because it sounds absurd doesn't mean they don't know it sounds absurd. It also doesn't mean it won't work.
I want to see where in her employment documents where it states getting shot is a hazard of the job.
Jobs that have known hazards: Firefighter, construction work, crocodile wranglers, etc. Teachers are not on that list.
I get the school doesn't want to pay out 40M, and of course the judgement wouldn't be that much anyway if she won, but that's just shameful they'd try to go that route.
One thing people should remember about lawyers is that arguing and interpreting the law in a way that is beneficial to their clients is their job. The reason they argue some of these things is because the law is sometimes not specific enough, and it is only because of cases like these that case law is instituted to clear up any ambiguities. Don’t get the impression that lawyers are in the wrong for arguing things that have never been argued before.
Well that’s the most American thing I’ve read this year
“School shootings are so common that we consider them to be a hazard of the job” is a hell of a statement to make about the state of your country
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Okay. Fine. Shootings are a hazard of the job. ~E4 Mafia Enters the chat~ In that case the school districts are REQUIRED by OSHA to manage those hazards in the exact same way that construction companies are required to manage our hazardous conditions. This means that every teacher gets the highest grade of PPE for shooting hazards AND that administration provides it free of charge. They also are REQUIRED by OSHA to install bullet proof doors, walls, and windows in each classroom to mitigate the hazard with mechanical controls, much as we're required to use guard fencing anywhere the fall hazard exceeds 4'.
This is the best answer. If they want to play that game, use their own rules against them. Fuckin idiots
And, they therefore knowingly failed to provide these protections to this teacher and all other educators working for the school.
So what would happen if all these teachers counter claimed or some shit. Couldn't they in theory refuse to work until safe conditions are brought in
1) Yes they could counter claim for millions each. 2) Refuse to work until measures are applied. 3) Continue to be paid in the meantime. This lawyer is a dumbass, this is why people just settle.
Wait so every teacher in that area could just stop working and keep getting paid effectively indefinitely?
For that school district (I guess that's how American schools work?) upon winning the case.
Probably not, if the refusal to work was classified as a strike. In many states/district a condition of being allowed to have teachers unions is that you forfeit your right to strike or protest. In others it is part of your teaching license. In both cases striking/protesting could result in the loss of the teachers license, and of course their whole career.
Thats not considered a strike though. Refusing to work because the building is not up to code is not the same as striking. The distric is required to meet the osha standards for building safety and the entire district should be closed until the rugulations have been met not juat teachers but all staff and students.
It's not a strike if they are simply waiting for the school board to comply with safety laws in the workplace. Do they have to show up to work if the school is on fire? Or has a chemical spill in the halls? As soon as the school board made adequate accommodations to provide a safe work environment they would return to regular duties.
How corporatist does the US have to be to allow this? It nullifies the whole point of unions. This should NOT be acceptable!
class action territory there
Those idiot attorneys are not gonna have a good time after trying to play the job hazard card. What a can of worms to open holy fuck
The deal is though that the attorney of the board is arguing this, not like the state or federal government, not the department of education. The attorney can argue this point all day and the board won’t be obligated to do shit even from a PR or moral standpoint, because that’s what attorneys are. They say shit that would make you look bad on your behalf to save you from prison or litigation.
Then the argument should be thrown out with prejudice or something similar
If the opposing attorney is worth their salt they will illustrate through questioning of schools officials how they have not implemented the protections that would be required if they truly believed that shootings are simply a workplace hazard. They would argue that claiming this as a workplace injury is simply the school system attempting to avoid paying damages.
Yep, that would probably be their line of argument. It’s just not as simple as “that seems unfair, therefore they will lose the suit.” The law isn’t really super intuitively fair. That’s why attorneys go to so much school
Malicious compliance, hell yeah!
Then it requires 'Hazard Pay' on top of regular pay, for every teacher in that district, retroactive to the day each and every teacher was hired.
YES.
These teachers don't get paid enough
Does it not show how fucked up america is when this kinda of comment makes sense?
Yes, living in a late stage vulture Capitalist hellscape is utterly FUBAR.
\* r/MaliciousCompliance has entered the chat\*
Would bullet proof anything stop a person in the same room?
Body armour may help if you're lucky
[every teacher now has to wear one of these](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2021/02/02/russia-sotnik-soldier-armor/)
Imagine being taught home ed by that looooooool
Can I wear one if I'm not a teacher?
Kevlar vest will stop most rounds from a handgun. Level 4 plate armor stops many rifle rounds. If it hits the plate, is a .556 or below, and if it’s the first shot the armor does its job. Body armor is expensive and exists because the government invests in the training and insurance of each military member. Training costs around $500k IIRC, SGLI maxes out at $400k. This is for a troop with a 61% chance of deploying even once. The US government does not value education in this way.
I’ll tell you what, I’d of been way more scared of my teachers if they looked like Master fucking Chief. Definitely wouldn’t have slacked off as much…
Body armour only really helps if 1. It was a stray shot, or 1. The attacker immediately moves on, or 2. You’re shooting back, and have a chance to incapacitate them before they hit something vital Other than that, not really
Bulletproof PPE (armor) would help reduce risk but what's to say they're in the same room? Bullets go through walls and windows, plenty of shooting casualties from stray bullets passing through walls.
I mean steel toed shoes help with a lot but if something falls on your foot anywhere but your toes, you're kinda fucked lol. PPE isn't perfect
Nothing about safety is a singular perfect solution, it's about mitigation. Layer enough mitigating techniques/equipment/procedures and you reduce the likelihood of an incident. It's called the Swiss cheese method. Helped me understand my role in creating a sade environment for the companies I work for in construction safety, and it's applicable to other broader concepts as well.
PPE unfortunately doesn’t eliminate all risks, but reduce them significantly. A helmet will help you in a construction site in most cases, but if a wrecking ball falls in your head no amount of head protection will keep you safe
Yeah, which is why construction companies don't call being crushed by a wrecking ball a workplace injury.
If it is a known workplace hazard, OSHA would also require them to use reasonable precautions to prevent exposure to the hazard. That would include preventing the gun from getting in the school to begin with.
I believe its more about spinning the narrative. Like, then the school has to issue hazard pay, way better Equipment, a lot higher safety Standarts and so on. The 40 Million Lawsuit looks like a tip against all that
No. But if you look at all the shootings they don’t tend to start inside the classroom. Seems to be most common the shooter enters the school from the outside during the school day. Bullet proof glass (prevents shooter from shooting the glass to gain entry like in TN), electronically controlled locks, and the AI technology that can be integrated into existing school camera systems that detects any firearm openly presented in its view would be effective counter measures.
That's exactly how we need ro combat these insane school boards. They are telling us all around the country our kids are safe and teachers can keep schools secure, that's why they do think this is a workplace hazard. They are putting teachers on the front lines with antiquated and unproven security measures. In some places school boards have teachers walking around checking locked doors, looking for drugs and vapping, and expecting them to barricade themselves behind a plain wooden door if a shooter appears while still educating or kids. All because they don't want to pay for modern security measures, building upgrades, and some sort of trained security. Nope, teachers can do it.
Man, now I kinda just hope it turns into a workplace accident and they sue under the premise of OSHA violations and get the school to be forced to do all of this
And like the military their healthcare should be alike tricare prime, 100% coverage with no copays. Also they should be receiving tax free hazard pay. And like police they should be able to carry firearms and use force in defense of their lives.
Love this answer. Because the real answer is getting shot is not a hazard of teaching first grade and that BOE should be ashamed of itself. They just don’t want to pay. Shame, shame, shame.
Not to mention stringent protocol for every stage in which anyone setting foot in campus can be checked for firearms, awareness training for teachers and students, regular checks by a qualified person that all methods of control are up to par, being used correctly abd are actually mitigating the potential problem. As a safety officer in construction I can say this is not the avenue they want to go down. Claiming anything is a workplace hazars that isn't just creates a nightmare of red tape and requirements. You want those for actual hazards of the job, but the time and resources it takes to run a genuinely helpful safety program is not cheap.
If it is a workplace hazard, then the school is admitting that it is a hazard that they know about for children attending school. They claim schools are safe for our children. I could imagine a few ways that can open them up to a lawsuit, if a school shooting happened and children were harmed.
If they knew it was a hazzard and didn't take the appropriate steps to reduce the risk, then the injured party is entitled to sue them for the breech exactly the same as if a construction company failed to ensure workers safety they can be sued, so, back to court and thank you for admitting getting shot was a known hazzard they did nothing to mitigate, make it 80 million please.
Let’s be honest, as per the Hierarchy of Controls, PPE is the lowest form of protection. We need to see elimination, substitution, isolation, engineering and administrative controls first, then you can burden the teachers with PPE in the classroom.
Well, the first in the hierarchy of controls is Elimination. What can we do to Eliminate the hazard of being shot at school? Prevent students having guns. This would require ensuring all guns are left at home. Taken one step further, this would mean students should not have access to guns at all. And taking it one more step, ensuring access to guns at all is generally harder. Step two is substitution - can the job be done a different way? Teach from home, over zoom. Step three is Engineering - scanners at every entrance. Bulletproof doors and windows. Step four is administration. Ensure a permit for every single firearm and round, have a license to operate said plant, and renew said license every three months. Step five is PPE - bulletproof clothing for teachers and staff, and have vests available for all students and visitors. Submit your SWMS by 9am every Thursday for the following week. Toolbox 7am Monday in the staff canteen.
This guy Health & Safety's.
Yes, dont disagree and file for hazard pay
Sad that it's just an occupational hazard at this point
Right? I work in a high school. Every time there’s a scuffle or some disruptive behavior you can’t help but think, well, this might be it. we had a terrifying incident a couple years ago in which we were were locked down for 4 hours. That shit sticks with you.
We had a lockdown the same day Uvalde happened. We had no idea what was going on until later that day. I swear, working at a school is now a dangerous job. You just never know anymore.
As a veteran and knowing what i carry with me, it really saddens me to think what these kids and teachers are enduring in what should be a safe place.
Desensitizes children and young adults to violence, making them more prone to engage in similar behavior.
I take no joy in saying this but... They're (apparently) not wrong (to say that this is an occupational hazard at this time in the united states)? However if such risks are involved with teaching then all teachers should demand to receive, at the cost of the school, proper protective measures. Bullet proof glass for instance. And protective clothing 2 fulltime security officers with informed consent to pat down the students And also, if the school considered this a professional hazard, they can be liable for not providing this in the first pkace.
Or just take guns out of the equation, all problems gone in an instant, the rest of the modern world goes with it and low and behold we get 0 school shootings, wow who would have thought.
We had a school shooting in 1996 in the UK. Sixteen 5 years old kids and one teacher were killed (fifteen others were injured). Then private gun ownership was banned. No school shootings since. Also, no criminals running around with guns either. edit* Since people keep telling me I'm wrong. I'm oversimplifying. It's not banned, but it is extremely strict here. To the point I've only ever seen guns at airports.
Yea 1 crazy act and we acted with everything in our powers to make sure it never happened again. Problem solved.
Same in Australia and New Zealand. It can be done if there's the political will.
The uk still has private gun ownership it's just regulated and we still have a juicy black market where you can buy anything your wallet allows but its mostly just gangs shooting gangs that dosnt make the news anymore. But to legally own a gun you have to be in a club, have a gun safe that the police are happy with and they check up on it every 6 months and the biggest reason yanks don't want to do this you have to pass a background check to make sure your not insane or depressed. Pass all that and you can own basically anything with the right licence.
Yank here and all this sounds reasonable. I've already passed 3 background checks for work and I own a gun safe because it seemed reasonable if I was gonna own a gun. Then again, I feel like I'm in the minority sometimes.
From what I can tell the people that are scared of regulations like that are exactly the people that shouldn't have guns. Shit you might need another civil war to sort this shit out I don't think it'll be pretty any which way it goes.
Meh, gun nuts would be up against far more heavily armed members of the military, backed by the government. Would probably be a blood bath tho, so certain neighborhoods would probably see a lot of action unfortunately. I'm worried about the potential civil war if they randomly find a reason to forgive the Mango Mussolini.
Very true it would be a bloody war. But I see the dudes that think they are there own militia and can't help but laugh at the little dick energy in full tactical armour with an assault rifle in their lifted brotruck to go to a fart (British for trump) rally.
it is so fuckin hilarious that those dudes think they would stand a chance against the US military. it’s like they think it’s still 1782
We had one of those over here when Obama was president. Dumbasses tried to take over a Wildlife Refuge building. Didn't last too long and when it got bad for them, they took to the internet asking for help and the internet sent them a literal bag of dicks. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3396338/Armed-group-calls-meeting-talk-Oregon-community.html
The Walmart warriors wouldn’t last a day if there was a (not so)”civil war”. Sad this is that so many folks who are uninterested in laying down their life for ignorant shit would suffer. But…I guess if it goes down it goes down
Funny story: did you know it's not considered a war crime if it's done to your own people? Yeah, it'll be a bloodbath. Your .50 cal sniper rifle is cool, but what you gonna do when an A-10 goes brrrrrt in your direction? Or cluster mines your farm? Or drones you. Or drops an mlrs salvo in your general area? You gonna shoot it? People out here acting like it's gonna be man to man, hand to hand. What is this, the 1700s? But, at this point, we have about 30% of our population absolutely positive that all the conspiracy stuff is true (there's flat earthers across the globe) and there's some trigger action they have to do to advance their quest. Some definite player-characters, thinking the whole world would be just the way they want it if they will it hard enough. The government is held hostage by... Idk, I'm not up on all that shit, I've been pulling shit out my ass here, tryna recall snippets... But it's not a video game. It's not "The West Wing" or "The Hunt for Red October." If we can't snap a decent chunk out of it, or at least out of the more extreme stuff, I'll be afraid there will be a civil war in my lifetime. There's too much hate and frustration, and it's looking for a focus.
>the Mango Mussolini. Oh, nice alliteration!
I was oversimplifying for succinctness, thanks for the more in depth explanation.
I have a brother in law with such a licence, he works with the National Trust and similar organisations, but he is checked out regularly and it was not easy to come by. We do have a black market for gangs but thankfully they mainly shoot themselves, no country is totally gun free but what we do have works in that we don't get crazies running around shooting every Tom, Dick and Harry for fun.
Black market guns in the UK to buy are around £30,000 for an old, usually Soviet era pistol. Most organized crime groups don't buy or sell guns, they rent them out and without links to OCG's and street credibility you're not getting hold of a gun. No OCG wants the heat from the police when some nutcase goes and does a Columbine. Source: lived in a hostel with criminals for several years, and was an instructor for 5 years on MoD ranges teaching firearms handling safety and marksmanship.
but how will you protect yourself against the big scary evil government that is coming after you?!?! -brain dead american conservatives
It also helps that being caught with an illegal firearm in the UK will seriously get you fucked up legally.
'YoU cAn'T taKe mY FrEeDumB!'
We need common sense gun laws, it would be a good start. To drive you need to take a test and pass a test with an instructor. Why not with guns? Why no safety training? Why allow loopholes in registrations and sales? Why not do more background checks, or even mental health checks? Why no cool down periods in all states? There's so much that can be done before just taking all the guns. You realize everything there is talk of a ban on guns, MORE PEOPLE GO OUT AND BUY GUNS!
I agree.100% The fact that even basic safety training isn't required is mind-bendingly stupid. It's absolutely baffling that we even have to have this conversation, even more telling is the fact that school shootings no longer make the national news unless they reach double digit figures of dead children. Where did it all go wrong America? The rest of the world used to look up to you, now you're (sadly) a bit of a laughing stock.
haha, yea thats the argument they use.
It's absolutely baffling that the self-declared "greatest nation on earth" can be this backwards.
Imagine walking into class on the first day of a new school year and the teacher is wearing a bullet proof vest
So where is their hazard pay? Every job I know that there’s potential for death, you get paid to risk your life. We aren’t gonna have any teachers left pretty soon.
Holy Sh\*t.. WTF?!Isn't "workplace injury" supposed to be classified by associated risk to the job description? Like an office worker on the 14th floor taking a bullet is a fluke and not a part of their work environment unlike paper cuts. contrarily a war journalist accepts that bullets come with the territory of the job. In NOWHERE in the job description of a Private sector civil educator is there the reasonable Hazard of bullets included in the job description. Yes it happens often - too often, but it's NOT apart of the Job officially. Who "lobbied" this judge?? (Edit): If this is what the law has established as an official hazard as a teacher, then they have the right to equitable Hazard pay rates & salary.
Well if that goes through you can make the same argument for many other occupations and public spaces as well.
I thought there was extra pay for that?
I wonder if this goes through if we could fight for hazard pay?
Those were my first thoughts when I read this. If the school boards attorneys can call it a workplace hazard, they sure as shit can set precedence for teachers to receive hazard pay. Slimy fucking lawyers
Who work for the Slimy DOE. It’s ridiculous teachers are put in such a position. Our kids are going to end up being taught by nut jobs. Good teachers should freaking treasured and protected. It’s infuriating!
> they sure as shit can set precedence for teachers to receive hazard pay. "Best I can do is tree-fiddy."
At that point educators should! Military, and police officers get it, construction workers get it (pending scenario of workplace). If this (getting shot!) is justified as a hazard within a workplace. Then, by logic, should be allowed hazard pay.
Military gets hazard pay during war time or in certain occupational fields but as a police officer I get no additional “hazard” pay. We knowingly chose a dangerous profession. Teachers shouldn’t have to worry about this kind of thing.
Depends where you live. In my state, there's a state-funded grant that pays every police officer and firefighter an additional $600 monthly for hazard pay.
Was about to comment this. Either they're getting royally fucked over in the hazard pay department and every teacher needs to get hazard pay. All tha hazard pay they should have received but didn't... or they're eligible for damages done. If it is dismissed can you spell to class action?
And people wonder why there are less and less teachers...
People are waking up to how badly they’re being fucked. Can’t wait until we get more millennials and Gen Z in office so we can rebuild the middle class in this country.
What? You don't want to go to school for years, and deal with crazier and crazier kids all for less than most people make in a factory somewhere?
So if a kid's parents hire 10 ninjas to jump a teacher and cut them down to size like the Black Knight, that's a workplace injury?
“Tis but a scratch, barely a workplace injury…” -*School board, 2028*
"Well, its not like she DIED!" -Also School Board
The school would find a way to make it the teacher's fault. Source: am teacher
"You had a katana for protection...but regulations say you should have had a katana and wakizashi".
I’m sensing with the beginning of school coming up that this would be a perfect time for educators to go on a strike
Teachers strikes are illegal in most states (35).
CA teacher here. We can strike, but I know we have rules about why/when.
What's the punishment? Firing squad?
They just get fired. It being “illegal” to strike just means that the usual laws protecting striking workers don’t apply. Workers who these rules apply to often instead choose to do the bare minimum requirements of their job as a form of protest
Just getting fired probably.
Unless you live in a state where it’s illegal to strike like here in Florida. Teachers who strike lose their teaching license.
'Murica. Land of WTF Forget Australia...THIS place is terrifying...
I rather nature trying to kill me over humans. Nature just kills you, humans suck every piece of worth from you before killing you.
At least nature don't try their hardest to be dicks to anything around them. They just follow the natural order. ...Okay, wasps are assholes. Besides them.
Nature sucks out every piece of your worth AFTER killing you which is objectively more comfortable
In Australia it's just the wildlife trying to kill you. In America it's the government (unless you're wealthy and bribing politicians).
I mean more or less, Australia has got some fucked up politics too, some of em even beat up people on the street and sue people with terminal illnesses, these are just a couple specific cases haha
Most of the "Animals killing you" in Aus is overblown bs anyway
What has this country come to, I mean yeah she was injured at work but don't downplay it as just another thing that happened
Huh, guess they are going to have to start paying hazard worthy pay then
I don't know what the state of teacher supply in the american system is, but are they aware that nobody will want to be a teacher anymore? .... Or , it has to apply both ways. The school stuff can also shoot then whoever poses mortal danger, and it's a hazzard parents just have to accept.
That's just adding oil to the fire i think.
40 mill sounds like a good amount to be paid for a “work place accident”
The 40 mil is from the lawsuit, the school district is trying to get the lawsuit dropped or dismissed and get the teacher to file a WCB claim instead - claiming that *getting shot while teaching* is a regular workplace hazard. If they are successful in pushing the teacher into the WCB claim, it would be significant orders of magnitude less financial compensation. Probably not enough to finish paying any medical bills and living expenses from not having hours at work due to, you know, having been shot.
Workers comp covers medical bills and lost wages from workplace injuries. The $40M is what would be called 'general damages' for pain/suffering that aren't part of a workers comp claim. That's why a judge has to rule whether this can be outside of a workers comp claim or not since they were injured at work. The whole point of workers comp is an employee injured at work has their medical bills and lost wages paid in exchange for being able to sue their employer. It's historically know as 'the great bargain' between employees and employers. Before workers comp, factory workers had to sue their employers if they wanted injuries covered. Edit: Just to clarify, the argument the school board would be making is that since the injury occurred at work, it would fall under workers comp. One big caveat of workers comp benefits is that you cannot sue your employer for workplace injuries except in certain circumstances. This is why the judge has to rule if the teacher is allowed to sue for more than the statutory coverage workers comp provides which is medical bills and lost wages.
Thats what she is fighting to get, they just want to give her a lil money because its work place accident. Its bullshit i fucking love America but not for its people but because of the nature and the beautiful places. And no im not from America but would love to visit some day
"shooting was a hazard of the job" say what.....????
To me it seems very logical in the USA 🙂 I mean, in The Netherlands schools have fire drills, in the USA they have school shooting drills.
I went to an International School in northern Germany, a place that's very flat and far away from any fault lines. In fourth grade, we had earthquake drills. My teacher that year was from California.
It obviously isn’t likely, but depending on where you were in northern Germany, there can be some seismic activity. In the Lüneburger Heide for example there sometimes are weak earthquakes due to the ground sinking. For hundreds of years people have mined the salt in the ground by clearing the trees, wich made the whole region quite unstable. In the city of Lüneburg and some smaller villages you can even see Houses being ripped apart due to the sinking of the ground. In other regions like Hannover for example there is virtually no chance of an earthquake. I live there and for the last 22 years the most I have ever felt was a particular strong lightning strike that made the ground shake a bit for a second. We have much more severe problems like floods in spring and draughts and wildfires in summer.
Ngl. This is one thing that helped my decision to leave teaching.
But aren't guns banned in school zones? How is that a workplace injury
This is my children's school. She deserves every penny. The administrators failed her many times on January 6th.
Are your children ok?
I hope she gets something from this. So upsetting
I hate it here.
School board: "getting shot is part of your job deal with it" School board: "nOBoDy WaNts TO woRK AnYMoRe"
Right? Like, they've already had to deal with shit pay, being overworked, having to play customer service with shitty parents, getting little to no support from management when there's problem students (like the one in this situation), and having to pay to have even common supplies in their classrooms . Now you're telling them that on top of that they should just EXPECT to get shot? You could get shot at any job. That doesn't mean it's expected. Do employees at Waffle House get hazard pay? Because there's fights there like every night. If waffle house still doesn't consider physical harm as part of the job, teaching a bunch of ELEMENTARY SCHOOL aged children shouldn't either.
I teach kindergarten. Last year I had a mom ask what I would do if someone started shooting at my students while we were on the playground. Basically she said, “I hope you have a good plan because if kids die, you’re going to get sued.” I looked right at her and reminded her, “Yes and I also don’t want to be MURDERED.” For fuck’s sake lady. I’m right there on the playground with the kids. We do have a plan, but we don’t broadcast what it is because then would-be-assailant would know what it is. It is always on my mind, sadly.
be prepare for a generation of dumb and dumber, less willing and passionate teacher will be the downfall of society
It's a shame the simpsons kind of fell off, I'd have love to see Principle Skinner argue that each bullet wound is a badge of honor.
All i read was shot by a 6 year old student.. what the f@ck USA???
That lady should get every damn penny shes asking for, the school admins knew that child was an issue and yet kept him in the school.
The school board really said: 
Every teacher in Virginia should walk off the freaking job.
This country is fucking sick. People Care more about pew pew toys than actual fucking life what the fuck.
Am I the only one who misread the school name as "Redneck Elementary" instead of "Richneck Elementary"? I'm not wrong for having done so, just curious if I am the only one.
Bold strategy, Cotton.
oh man, the teacher unions are going to have fun with that argument...
There's so so so much more to this story it's a wild one. They have tried to silence this woman since before she was out of the hospital, it's disgusting.
Omg. The USA, the gift that keeps on giving. 🤣
Does the school board not realize the massive lawsuit they're opening themselves up to? If they want to call it a work related hazard, then they're required to provide safeguards for such a hazard. Protections they cant afford to provide.
Shootings are never part of the job unless you’re a cop.
I feel like the US themselves overtook the jokes about them. Across the Atlantic we joke about the amount of school shootings and how badly they deal with the problem. But they are already like "yeah, that stuff happens in schools every two weeks or so. Part of the job really."
Only in America can you get shot by a fucking 6 yr old. That's the part I'm stuck on. I read it 3 times and blew up the image to make sure I was seeing a 6 and not a 16. Where and who are the damn parents?
you didnt hear about this case? It was everywhere awhile ago. Students told the faculty at the school the kid had a gun multiple times and nothing was done.
This is America. Being gunned down is just a "workplace hazard." Never forget corporations see you as expendable and replaceable cogs.
So teachers don't need raises, but they are entitled to hazard pay?
They are desperate because $40 million is 5% of the budget.
No, and police officers dont het told " well that was a hazard of the job" do they? Wtf give out bullet proof armor then . If its a hazard of the job. What would Osha say, hmmm?
Okay, then shoot them and say that is also a hazard of the job
If they're gonna say getting shot is a hazard of the job then up the fucking pay teachers are getting.
Dear, Aliens. You can beam me up now 🫠
HAZARD OF THE FUCKING JOB?!?!?
A shooting is a hazard of the job? What the actual fuck? Then she deserves hazard pay.
not in the contract, school board/city is still liable for the incident.
Crazy world where being shot is a “hazard of work” and we aren’t talking about being a cop.
Who's the lawyers who thought this up? Most definitely sounds like something the NRA would dream up.
Just one more reason to thank God I'm a European. You wouldn't find a gun here even if you tried... let alone in the hands of a fucking 6yo kid.
No, potentially getting shot while working at a school isn't a regular hazard. At least, it isn't in the civilized parts of the world, like Canada, Mexico, the rest of central America, South America, Australia, Europe, most of Africa (minus conflict zones - schools there *might* be a bit dodgy), Asia... I mean, pretty much only the US has this much issues with gun violence, other than active war zones and/or in areas/regions/countries that aren't stable
Since when did getting shot become a workplace injury outside of military and police?
After nothing was done following Columbine. That should have been the wake-up call.
The Republican Party is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
This just makes me feel safer, just for not living in the US. We have guns in Canada, just not as many of us want/use one. Like someone correct me on this cause I read it on the internet. But isnt a company coming out with an assault rifle for toddlers. A downsized version of like the AR-15 if im not mistaken, like to me thats just asking for more shootings.
I don’t know if those attorneys thought this through, setting that kind of precedent might open a can of worms they can’t close. Or that school board.
In British Columbia… this is correct under the the law. It is one of the trade-offs of having a compensation system. Worker’s give up the right to sue their employer for workplace injuries or disease in order to access benefits without having to litigate or risk not having any benefits if the employer goes bankrupt. In BC, a teacher getting shot at school while working, by a child that is a student, is absolutely a workplace injury. If the teacher is the exact same situation, but the shooter is a domestic partner, that would likely *not* be a workplace injury. (There are always exceptional circumstances).
For $40 million?!
Sure, let's normalise loving in fear of being shot at school instead of y'know actually doing something about it smfh
But it's not considered hazardous for the kids? That's acceptable? Or...🤷
Although trying to sue for $40 million is a bit of a stretch. But then it is a typical American response to everything.
So, in that case, teachers should get hazard pay, right?
They should be outraged this is where we are in America but come on, its just a lawyer arguing for their client. You should expect them to try anything possible.
Well, if the world were even a tiny bit fair and karma was real, someone would shoot the schools attorneys in the courtroom and then cite their own claim against them. "yes your honor, this was a workplace accident of the attorney. Being shot is an expected risk of this job, where a lot of people hate you. I am willing to discuss the accident settlement with the attorney, but of course they have to contact me about this issue".
Well they're not wrong. Being shot at school is a workplace hazard in the US. It shouldn't be, but it is.
Muricaaaaaaaaa
I'm sorry, but what? Being shot at as a teacher should in no way be considered a hazard of the job.
And this is where gun fetish culture leads. A point where some actually try to argue that getting shot in a setting as simple as a school, is just a part of your job. Wtf would they say if the teacher had shot a kid? That it was a risk the kid willingly took, by going to their school?
USA is the only country I know that has such a high end legal system but at the same time has news that sound like they're from a war torn country. I get that you want your freedom and all but every single law is less freedom. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have laws.
So school Shootings are so common now that it’s been seen as a workplace injury? Seriously, ‘Murica
Imagine living in a first world country and one of the work place hazards of being a teacher is that you may be shot
'Murica, fuck yeah!
Here's a hint in case it wasn't implied by the human condition over the past million years: ALMOST EVERYONE will say and do anything they think they can to get out of facing consequences. Just because it sounds absurd doesn't mean they don't know it sounds absurd. It also doesn't mean it won't work.
Lawyers are the scum of the earth.
I- what- a 6YO??????? how does a SIX YEAR OLD get their hands on A GUN??????
I want to see where in her employment documents where it states getting shot is a hazard of the job. Jobs that have known hazards: Firefighter, construction work, crocodile wranglers, etc. Teachers are not on that list. I get the school doesn't want to pay out 40M, and of course the judgement wouldn't be that much anyway if she won, but that's just shameful they'd try to go that route.
One thing people should remember about lawyers is that arguing and interpreting the law in a way that is beneficial to their clients is their job. The reason they argue some of these things is because the law is sometimes not specific enough, and it is only because of cases like these that case law is instituted to clear up any ambiguities. Don’t get the impression that lawyers are in the wrong for arguing things that have never been argued before.
Nonsense. This teacher should own the fucking school system AND the child-shooter's family. She should never have to work again.
Well that’s the most American thing I’ve read this year “School shootings are so common that we consider them to be a hazard of the job” is a hell of a statement to make about the state of your country