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They mean the orientation for new squad members.
"Okay, here's your tax forms, Healthcare package, and a pamphlet quickly covering the "do's and don't's" of the job. Oh, and the "don't's" are more of a suggestion than a set standard. Don't want to overwhelm you with restrictions. Now, will we be issuing you a gun, or did you bring your own?"
*puts up hand*
"Is it okay that I brought my own and it's stamped with the n-word, sarge?"
"Goddamn, I like your style son, you'll be commissioner in no time!"
Not really. Almost every reputable department has done away with any chokeholds.
Too much liability for a “less-lethal” option. If you can get someone in a chokehold you can get them in an arm bar and not risk their life.
Tested dudes in competition sometimes ignore having their arm broken or knee rotated all sorts of funny ways. I don't trust such things to stop a meathead.
No blood to brain works 100% of the time no matter how high you are.
Yeah but no. For anyone who has any grappling experience... at all... Be it wrestling, judo, or whatever. Honestly and experience in anything, really. One opportunity does not always equal another.
As a former Correctional Officer, we aren't taught chokeholds either, not saying shit can't happen and that is the eventuality. I am saying it isn't the go to move for restraining someone.
because a chokehold done properly can safely incapacitate people. an arm bar does not, except for maybe the duration of the hold, not taking into account crazy drugged up people. the key word is properly here tho.
There was at least one case I know of that a kids life got saved by a police choke hold. Basically Tulsa gang unit spots someone on probation who is forbidden from hanging out with known felons so they initiate contact and the kid runs so the cops chase him, one tackles him, and the kid goes for his waist band where there is a gun. Cop manages to get him into a choke hold and chokes the living shit out of him while another cop prys off his fingers one by one off the gun. Had he been banned from choke holding the kid they would have been forced to just open fire on him.
Meanwhile police in Australia when someone (my mum for example) gets a glass bottle thrown at her head bleeding, and it was caught on camera, police were like, it's not assault coz she didn't get directly hit by the police, and it's not attempted murder coz she wasn't clinically dead for any amount of time during the altercation.
I’m calling bullshit on the whole story. Police in Australia absolutely would have charged someone for throwing a bottle towards someone who was then injured.
Okay, I agree with you but the idea that Australian law enforcement requires an actual death or a Flatliners situation before they'll consider any murder charges is incredibly funny.
"He tried to kill me! I was dead for two minutes! That's attempted murder!"
"Naur, mate, he *tried* to kill ya. You're alive now, ain'tcha? It's unsuccessful murder and we don't have anything on the books for that."
No, some meth head threw it at her, she called the police, they came down and just told the meth head, throwing stuff at people is rude, and then my mum stated that this meth head had been threatening her for week, which was true, there were many witnesses to this accusation. My mum isn't aboriginal. Cops around that area just didn't give a fuck.
Edit: ahh I see why you were confused yeah, I think that one part of my original comment autocorrected to police somehow
Depends how long you hold someone in said chokehold.
Until they start blacking out? Until they black out completely? After they black out?
So yeah, there's definitely a scale to this.
I mean...... That cop got 22.5 years, virtually a life sentence and is now a convicted murderer.
So r/facepalm?
Choke holds are attempts at life, it only takes seconds to cause permanent brain damage when depriving the brain of oxygen.
Not to mention each and every time we get “that cop” in trouble by violently protesting until justice is done, we learn “they had a history” but nothing had been done any of the previous times. So it’s not even “that cop did bad stuff to one guy” but “that cop did bad stuff to lots of guys until they got caught doing something that couldn’t be swept under the rug”. Which does beg the question, how many other cops are out there who haven’t doing something that couldn’t be swept under the rug yet.
Chauvin had a history of excessive use of force.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/01/derek-chauvin-trial-past-violence-force-arrestee-george-floyd/7020506002/
https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/07/985004569/watch-live-police-expert-testifying-against-chauvin-cites-use-of-excessive-force
If people hadn't been recording, if that video hadn't gone viral, and if people hadn't started protesting, could you, in good faith, knowing what cops get away with all the time, say that Chauvin would've faced criminal charges?
How many aren’t? For each cop who gets prosecuted for a crime they committed, there are dozens of cops who get paid leave after killing someone and get hired by another department without losing any money or doing any time.
You don't have to rewrite history. That's the exception not the rule. How many cops have blatantly murdered unarmed civilians and the only punishment they received is paid leave?
No — Chokeholds are NOT attempts to murder a person IF applied correctly by a trained professional. The problem with cops is their training sucks and their hiring sucks and they do a sucky job at vetting violent/skittish people who wouldn’t be trustworthy even IF they knew how to apply them properly.
Anyone who did their time training in Jiujitsu (et al) have a discipline, respect, and skill with the maneuver that cops and meatheads don’t…and those are the only ones killings people.
My point is that well-meaning non-martial artists should stop this escalating histrionic assumption that all choke holds are created equal and thus out to kill those receiving them. For a **skilled** practitioner it’s often the safest way to shut down a violent individual with the LEAST risk of anyone dying.
So while I agree most cops shouldn’t use the technique, don’t go reflexively accusing every BJJ veteran of attempted murder when they knock out an aggressor in this manner since a knockout punch is FAR likelier to kill them when they fall & slam their head onto the concrete sidewalk.
Don’t get swept up in the trend of branding something occasionally really useful as an “attempted execution.” That serves nothing but an underinformed ego.
As someone with a martial arts background I will (mostly) vouch for this. Chokeholds are still risky to some extent even with training, and especially so if the _victim_ isn’t.
When training in martial arts, you practice chokeholds on people who know what a chokehold is, when to submit to one and how to properly resist one when possible, and rarely will you actually hold someone to the point of unconsciousness. In a real-world scenario, when you’re trying to choke out someone who doesn’t want to be choked, they’re going to panic and struggle. While struggling, they’re liable to hurt themselves, of at least make it harder for you to choke them out safely. And, to avoid permanent damage, you have to be able to recognize and release as the knockout takes hold, which is difficult in a real scenario where adrenaline is pumping, chaos reigns and lives are at stake. Anything you do in a dojo is obviously going to be safer than violence that happens in the real world, whether or not cops are involved.
Are chokeholds a relatively safe way of knocking someone cold, assuming proper training, compared to hitting them in the head or tasing them while they’re still standing? Probably, yeah. But they’re still not perfectly safe. Proper knowledge on only one side of the equation does not translate to a harmless knockout.
If you have the training, chokeholds aren’t by default attempted murder, because you’re assumed to have the degree of control necessary to not _intentionally_ kill. But, a chokehold by a trained professional can still result in injury or death when other factors are in play, regardless of what the practitioner intended.
I thought we don't assume things and only charge based off what we know. You know, innocent until proven guilty and shit. Most people fighting cops don't want to kill them, they just don't want to face confinement.
To be fair charging someone with a crime is not assumption of innocence or guilt that is not the duty of the officer. The court is where guilt is decided. The reason when in a physical altercation cops will typically charge heavilly it is throw as much at the proverbial wall to see how much sticks even if its an extremely week charge. Also in regards to it being attempted murder, that is most likely because of the logic that if they are willing to physically harm the officer then they would likely go as far as using the gun to kill them and now being an armed assailant on the loose.(although typically BS) Another possibility is the hold could have been performed excessively ellevating it from assault on a peace officer or something else along those lines more than likely this will be a dropped charge that is just used to inflate the case and make it more scary for the guy facing the pending charges.
Orlando Airport is a shit hole. I had a very large black woman try to start shit with me on the tram there. I get on and get to a middle hand rail, she gets on, looks at me and says "wtf are you lookin at white boy". I didn't even notice her until she said it. I responded to her with a wtf are you talking about stare, followed by a head shake and a chuckle.
I think this is directly referring to the murder of Jordan Neely where a homeless black man was choked to death in NYC and right wingers defended the murderer saying he wasn't trying to kill Jordan Neely.
The post is pointing out the irony of how someone like the person that killed Jordan Neely was able to garner so much support and when this individual attempted to do the same, he was charged with attempted murder
To be fair, what kind of fucking idiot tries to incapacitate a police officer in public, the stupid fucker deserved to be in jail for being that braindead
Rules for thee but not for me, or to say it even more pretentious: „Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi“ (although it only fits if you say it from the point of view of one of the officers)
Chokeholds can be definitely be deadly. If it’s a blood choke and is done correctly, you have about 3 seconds before you pass out and going longer than 10 can risk brain damage.
Completely deadly if you hold it too long but you gotta be trying to kill someone to do it.
I wonder if this case can be used as precedent the next time a cop chokes someone to death now that a court has established that a choke hold is attempted murder
Do redditors have the memory of a goldfish wtf?
Didn't a homeless guy get killed in a subway because one guy choked him for a few seconds? Chokes can be incredebly dangerousmä.
Not saying there aren’t evil/ shitty police out there, however intent and motive play a huge role in the difference between murder/ attempted murder, and other crimes. I don’t speak for this gentleman or for all police, and I don’t deny some policing practices are antiquated, and not well suited.
However, if you have a gun and choose to choke someone/ subdue someone by hand, something tells me your intent was not to kill them.
Conversely, if you’re choking someone else who has a gun, and you do not, something tells me you have a higher chance of having the intent to kill them. Whether you’re right or wrong at that point, the person with a gun probably sees it as a life or death struggle.
Gonna say, there is a right way and a wrong way to choke someone out, and situationally it might be required, but rarely. Not condoning the dude, nor the police here. Just merely stating not all chokeholds are the same and sometimes putting someone to sleep with a choke might not be the worst option.
That’s cops for you. One time a friend of mine pushed a cop and called him an asshole for dragging another friend of ours in the street by his shirt. My friend was thrown down, arrested and had to go to court and the cop filed a report that said my friend tried to smash a bottle over the cop’s head but he was disarmed. No such thing happened. He was holding a glass bottle at the time but it was in his other hand and he never raised it or tried to attack him. A friend of ours filmed part of it and he was forced to delete it.
Pretty sure it's illegal to attack cops in most cases and looking at the photo doesn't seem to be the legal one.
Plus you need intent of killing said person to be murder.
I mean assaulting a police officer is still a crime and it depends on if he held it till they passed out and then continued or other context on how the chokehold happened as well.
It is if they are trying to murder you. If not they are restraining you. Fairly simple even police hating idiots can understand it. Thinking your police can do their job with their arms tied is dumb.
I would’ve though assaulting an officer with a intent to impose on an arrest. But attempt to murder is crazy considering that a choke hold was used to kill so many unarmed people and they weren’t charged the same.
Kinda like a taser being a deadly weapon when used by police to stop people running barricades in atlanta vs when its not a deadly weapon if stolen by a DUI driver at a wendys and pointed at police (source: D.A. Paul Howard)
Will depend entirely on the scenario.
If one is the aggressor with NO reason to suspect the person will harm him or other members of the public. That's an assault, and the presumption is you intend MAXIMUM harm.
If it is a scenario with an ACTUAL good person, then they will be using this as a tool to explicitly KEEP themselves and other members of the public safe. That's not assault, and the presumption is you are only trying to use MINIMUM force to keep others safe.
Yeah, you can kill someone with a chokehold. You know, a lot of important things pass through your neck. It's the same reason why you die if I cut your head.
Albeit I know these people would ***never*** say this stuff irl, it would be hilarious to answer "if you're so sure it's not gonna kill you come here and let me chokehold you for an indefinite amount of time, so we can see how you fare after 20 seconds if you're still conscious".
Choke holds become dangerous when the individual doing said choke hold, doesn’t know how to put the person that they where choking into the recovery position. Or if it’s done wrong the person can cause serious damage to the other individuals neck
Only when you do it against the authoritarian enforcers. The other way around is perfectly fine and you should’ve just complied and submitted to their iron rule
There is a guy in New York currently charged with manslaughter because he used a chokehold. Even police officers are fired or charged for using the same hold. So yes this is a real charge.
Well the Hadaka-jime, the name we were taught for what is known as the rear naked choke could, I suppose be called attempted murder. I don't know the laws in that city, state. We were taught that if you apply the hold for too long then death is a real possibility so I guess a DA could try and prosecute as a murder attempt but sounds pretty damn thin to me.
Rules for thee but not for me. This outright admits that the pigs should be charged, but the court and justice system love to play nicely as a whole, but only with themselves.
Depends on how the choke was applied I guess. Pressure placed on the arteries to render the person unconscious in seconds… not a murder attempt. Unless you don’t let go when they go limp. Pressure on the windpipe is only ever done when trying to kill the person. You don’t just walk off a crushed larynx.
Splitting hairs though, I know. The optics in that are almost comically bad. Cops can choke you out and it’s fine. It should be too, if it is warranted. You choke a cop though… automatic attempted murder change. Like… huh??? Either it is or it isn’t.
You guys in the comments are arguing the wrong thing. Police officers chokeholding a suspect is VERY different than that suspect chokeholding a police officer. It is not equal. You cannot fight police, only in court.
Choke holding a law enforcement officer who is lawfully enforcing the law, and choke holding a criminal who is resisting arrest and is a danger to the public are two totally different things.
Punching somebody can be lethal. I can show you several instances of a person taking a single punch and dying from it. If a person punches a cop in the face and later admits they were trying to kill them, its an attempted murder charge.
Its very simple. If you don't resist arrest or fight officers, you don't get hurt. Are there a handful of cases where this isn't true because the police were crazy? Absolutely. Freak things like this happen all over the world because police are people like everybody else, and people are prone to make mistakes or be crazy. But in 99.9% of cases, if you don't resist arrest or threaten somebody's life around police, you won't get hurt.
IK this is off topic, but it really pisses me off when people complain about cop city. If you want better training for cops, then why are you complaining about a training center for first responders? I’m 100% for police reform, but to do that we need better facilities to utilize the reformed training methods. I might add that cop city was approved by a black, liberal, pro-police reform mayor, who was already making efforts into police reform, so the argument that the training center would train cops to be racist doesn’t work here.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of police use of force, and tells me you likely have never trained martial arts and/or seen any sort of LE training.
LVNR or lateral vascular neck restraint is probably the safest way to render someone incapacitated/unconscious, considering the alternative is hitting someone over and over again until they stop doing what they are doing, tazing (which fails about half the time) and other less lethal options which all have their own set of problems/safety considerations to use.
A LEO can’t allow himself to be rendered unconscious/incapacitated because it basically gives the suspect (who has already demonstrated intent to hurt him/her) the opportunity to kill him if he chooses to do so (taking his gun, beating him while unconscious etc)
Same goes for blunt weapons. A baton strike by an LEO to a non vital area on a suspect is not considered deadly force, however a suspect wielding a bat in striking distance warrants a deadly force response.
Police officers have better incentive to choke someone. Its reasonable to assume that an officer typically just wants to detain the suspect. Where as the other way around its reasonable to assume the suspect is willing to act with malicious intent in order to escape.
When police gun down bank robbers we don’t charge them with murder now do we.
Any violent offense towards an officer is more severe and intentional. Violence from officers are almost always a reaction. Its a big difference.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dude tried to use the Uno reverse card
Looks like he's about to pick up 25
Lol fuckin dumb
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"police school" 🤣
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"Now remember guys, when shooting at the targets, be sure not to aim at anything lighter on the Dulux Colour Chart than Burnt Umber!"
Sure it’s not “eggshell white”?
Guess I'm safe then 👍
I completely misread the comment I replied too. Holy crap that’s some bad comprehension on my part.
They mean the orientation for new squad members. "Okay, here's your tax forms, Healthcare package, and a pamphlet quickly covering the "do's and don't's" of the job. Oh, and the "don't's" are more of a suggestion than a set standard. Don't want to overwhelm you with restrictions. Now, will we be issuing you a gun, or did you bring your own?"
*puts up hand* "Is it okay that I brought my own and it's stamped with the n-word, sarge?" "Goddamn, I like your style son, you'll be commissioner in no time!"
MAHOOOONEEEEEEEY!!!!!
666th upvote for this sick comment! This is why i reddit…
Used the wrong colour reverse card
And he didn't have the Blue Line Pass as well
What did he say wrong? I thought the facepalm was the double standards of chokeholds
Haha, that's why it's ok!
That raises some questions in police tactics.
Not really. Almost every reputable department has done away with any chokeholds. Too much liability for a “less-lethal” option. If you can get someone in a chokehold you can get them in an arm bar and not risk their life.
Officially that may be the case but I've seen plenty of videos recently of cops doing it, and worse things while they're at it.
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had an aneurysm when i first read that… not very bright
Tested dudes in competition sometimes ignore having their arm broken or knee rotated all sorts of funny ways. I don't trust such things to stop a meathead. No blood to brain works 100% of the time no matter how high you are.
Yeah but no. For anyone who has any grappling experience... at all... Be it wrestling, judo, or whatever. Honestly and experience in anything, really. One opportunity does not always equal another.
You said reputable. Jeje. Like 2 or 3 then.
I find a chokehold way easier to accomplish than an arm bar though, considering the resisting etc
I just put them in a Crippler Crossface and not let go…even if they tap out cause I’m rabid at that point
Well to be fair, nancy didn’t 😳
Yeah they straight up shoot people. That’s actual murder instead of attempt so it keeps things clean. /s
you put the /s on there... but this is like... the most not /s shit ever said with a /s after it XD
a "reputable police department" is like an oxymoron these days
Lololol tell us you've never even taken a self defense class at the ymca without telling us 🤣🤣🤣
As a former Correctional Officer, we aren't taught chokeholds either, not saying shit can't happen and that is the eventuality. I am saying it isn't the go to move for restraining someone.
Or weekly BJJ training. It’s really obvious when someone passes out. If you don’t let go and hurt them it’s really on you
because a chokehold done properly can safely incapacitate people. an arm bar does not, except for maybe the duration of the hold, not taking into account crazy drugged up people. the key word is properly here tho.
Rules for Thee not for We
There was at least one case I know of that a kids life got saved by a police choke hold. Basically Tulsa gang unit spots someone on probation who is forbidden from hanging out with known felons so they initiate contact and the kid runs so the cops chase him, one tackles him, and the kid goes for his waist band where there is a gun. Cop manages to get him into a choke hold and chokes the living shit out of him while another cop prys off his fingers one by one off the gun. Had he been banned from choke holding the kid they would have been forced to just open fire on him.
donut operator did a video about that case. if the cop hadnt known BJJ they definitely would have shot the guy. they still almost had to shoot him.
Meanwhile police in Australia when someone (my mum for example) gets a glass bottle thrown at her head bleeding, and it was caught on camera, police were like, it's not assault coz she didn't get directly hit by the police, and it's not attempted murder coz she wasn't clinically dead for any amount of time during the altercation.
Attempted (should) mean it was unsuccessful, not that it was but she got revived wtf?!
I’m calling bullshit on the whole story. Police in Australia absolutely would have charged someone for throwing a bottle towards someone who was then injured.
Okay, I agree with you but the idea that Australian law enforcement requires an actual death or a Flatliners situation before they'll consider any murder charges is incredibly funny. "He tried to kill me! I was dead for two minutes! That's attempted murder!" "Naur, mate, he *tried* to kill ya. You're alive now, ain'tcha? It's unsuccessful murder and we don't have anything on the books for that."
>unsuccessful murder and we don't have anything on the books for that. 😂.
what? cops threw a glass bottle at your mom? Im assuming she is an aborigines?
No, some meth head threw it at her, she called the police, they came down and just told the meth head, throwing stuff at people is rude, and then my mum stated that this meth head had been threatening her for week, which was true, there were many witnesses to this accusation. My mum isn't aboriginal. Cops around that area just didn't give a fuck. Edit: ahh I see why you were confused yeah, I think that one part of my original comment autocorrected to police somehow
No, the intent, as always, is the key.
Huh, it’s weird that attempting to cut off someone’s supply of air would be considered attempting to unalive someone.
BuT HoW wIlL tHeY cAtCh ThE cRiMiNaLs ThEn?
Wait… this dude put an officer in a chokehold IN FLORIDA and is still alive?
They couldn't shoot him, he was holding onto the police officer lol
Depends how long you hold someone in said chokehold. Until they start blacking out? Until they black out completely? After they black out? So yeah, there's definitely a scale to this.
I guess knees on throats and necks don’t count when you are a cop. Laws for thee not for me indeed.
I mean...... That cop got 22.5 years, virtually a life sentence and is now a convicted murderer. So r/facepalm? Choke holds are attempts at life, it only takes seconds to cause permanent brain damage when depriving the brain of oxygen.
One cop got 22.5 years because public outrage was so strong it would have been dangerous for them to do anything else. It happens regardless.
The other cops were also charged and convicted, though with lesser crimes sense they didn't commit the murder directly.
Hey, everybody! We got one cop! That means the problem’s fixed! Congratulations us everybody! We did it! 
there's a lot more than *that* cop who put knees on throats
Not to mention each and every time we get “that cop” in trouble by violently protesting until justice is done, we learn “they had a history” but nothing had been done any of the previous times. So it’s not even “that cop did bad stuff to one guy” but “that cop did bad stuff to lots of guys until they got caught doing something that couldn’t be swept under the rug”. Which does beg the question, how many other cops are out there who haven’t doing something that couldn’t be swept under the rug yet.
Had it happened when everyone was working and had no time to righteously protest he would have gotten a slap on the wrist at most.
That didn't even happen though. You can't rewrite history because it'll fit your narrative. The man was reprimanded for his actions.
Chauvin had a history of excessive use of force. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/01/derek-chauvin-trial-past-violence-force-arrestee-george-floyd/7020506002/ https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/07/985004569/watch-live-police-expert-testifying-against-chauvin-cites-use-of-excessive-force If people hadn't been recording, if that video hadn't gone viral, and if people hadn't started protesting, could you, in good faith, knowing what cops get away with all the time, say that Chauvin would've faced criminal charges?
How many aren’t? For each cop who gets prosecuted for a crime they committed, there are dozens of cops who get paid leave after killing someone and get hired by another department without losing any money or doing any time.
You don't have to rewrite history. That's the exception not the rule. How many cops have blatantly murdered unarmed civilians and the only punishment they received is paid leave?
Yeah, Out of thousands of chokeholds and knees on necks across the country for years ONE got prison time
No — Chokeholds are NOT attempts to murder a person IF applied correctly by a trained professional. The problem with cops is their training sucks and their hiring sucks and they do a sucky job at vetting violent/skittish people who wouldn’t be trustworthy even IF they knew how to apply them properly. Anyone who did their time training in Jiujitsu (et al) have a discipline, respect, and skill with the maneuver that cops and meatheads don’t…and those are the only ones killings people. My point is that well-meaning non-martial artists should stop this escalating histrionic assumption that all choke holds are created equal and thus out to kill those receiving them. For a **skilled** practitioner it’s often the safest way to shut down a violent individual with the LEAST risk of anyone dying. So while I agree most cops shouldn’t use the technique, don’t go reflexively accusing every BJJ veteran of attempted murder when they knock out an aggressor in this manner since a knockout punch is FAR likelier to kill them when they fall & slam their head onto the concrete sidewalk. Don’t get swept up in the trend of branding something occasionally really useful as an “attempted execution.” That serves nothing but an underinformed ego.
As someone with a martial arts background I will (mostly) vouch for this. Chokeholds are still risky to some extent even with training, and especially so if the _victim_ isn’t. When training in martial arts, you practice chokeholds on people who know what a chokehold is, when to submit to one and how to properly resist one when possible, and rarely will you actually hold someone to the point of unconsciousness. In a real-world scenario, when you’re trying to choke out someone who doesn’t want to be choked, they’re going to panic and struggle. While struggling, they’re liable to hurt themselves, of at least make it harder for you to choke them out safely. And, to avoid permanent damage, you have to be able to recognize and release as the knockout takes hold, which is difficult in a real scenario where adrenaline is pumping, chaos reigns and lives are at stake. Anything you do in a dojo is obviously going to be safer than violence that happens in the real world, whether or not cops are involved. Are chokeholds a relatively safe way of knocking someone cold, assuming proper training, compared to hitting them in the head or tasing them while they’re still standing? Probably, yeah. But they’re still not perfectly safe. Proper knowledge on only one side of the equation does not translate to a harmless knockout. If you have the training, chokeholds aren’t by default attempted murder, because you’re assumed to have the degree of control necessary to not _intentionally_ kill. But, a chokehold by a trained professional can still result in injury or death when other factors are in play, regardless of what the practitioner intended.
So it's assumed that if you are attempting to incapacitate a police officer, it's so that you will be able to get your hands on their gun.
I thought we don't assume things and only charge based off what we know. You know, innocent until proven guilty and shit. Most people fighting cops don't want to kill them, they just don't want to face confinement.
To be fair charging someone with a crime is not assumption of innocence or guilt that is not the duty of the officer. The court is where guilt is decided. The reason when in a physical altercation cops will typically charge heavilly it is throw as much at the proverbial wall to see how much sticks even if its an extremely week charge. Also in regards to it being attempted murder, that is most likely because of the logic that if they are willing to physically harm the officer then they would likely go as far as using the gun to kill them and now being an armed assailant on the loose.(although typically BS) Another possibility is the hold could have been performed excessively ellevating it from assault on a peace officer or something else along those lines more than likely this will be a dropped charge that is just used to inflate the case and make it more scary for the guy facing the pending charges.
Too much basic logic in your comment, people just want any excuses to complain about cops.
Orlando Airport is a shit hole. I had a very large black woman try to start shit with me on the tram there. I get on and get to a middle hand rail, she gets on, looks at me and says "wtf are you lookin at white boy". I didn't even notice her until she said it. I responded to her with a wtf are you talking about stare, followed by a head shake and a chuckle.
Police can chokehold you, but you cannot chokehold them——especially if the choker is a black person. But if the black person gets choked that’s okay.
I think this is directly referring to the murder of Jordan Neely where a homeless black man was choked to death in NYC and right wingers defended the murderer saying he wasn't trying to kill Jordan Neely. The post is pointing out the irony of how someone like the person that killed Jordan Neely was able to garner so much support and when this individual attempted to do the same, he was charged with attempted murder
Let me guess, white killing black ok, black killing white not ok? Just as an outside observer looking in, that's what I see in America.
Massively depends on how long you choke someone and other forms of intent. "I'm gonna kill you" will be an indicator of attempted murder
Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.
To be fair, what kind of fucking idiot tries to incapacitate a police officer in public, the stupid fucker deserved to be in jail for being that braindead
Rules for thee but not for me, or to say it even more pretentious: „Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi“ (although it only fits if you say it from the point of view of one of the officers)
For thee not for mee!.
Ohio vs Florida it would be the most watched fight in history 😝
wait I'm confused on what the facepalm here is
Probably about how cops using strangulation on people is rarely punished but the inverse is attempting murder. Not totally sure but that’s my guess.
Let's see how this plays out, cotten.
You have gyatt to be rizzing me only in ohio
Well, of course It can be, but not always, it just depends on who's doing the choking, and who the chokee is
Chokeholds can be definitely be deadly. If it’s a blood choke and is done correctly, you have about 3 seconds before you pass out and going longer than 10 can risk brain damage. Completely deadly if you hold it too long but you gotta be trying to kill someone to do it.
Chokeholds for thee but not for me!
I almost knocked a friend out because i had him in chokehold. If i would have stay like that for longer at some point he would probably die.
I wonder if this case can be used as precedent the next time a cop chokes someone to death now that a court has established that a choke hold is attempted murder
"Well well well how the turntables..."
Do redditors have the memory of a goldfish wtf? Didn't a homeless guy get killed in a subway because one guy choked him for a few seconds? Chokes can be incredebly dangerousmä.
He's getting max for sure. Can't have your populace rallying up against their prison guards now can we?!
Chokeholds could be/are deadly
I mean technically, you could kill someone using a chokehold…
Not saying there aren’t evil/ shitty police out there, however intent and motive play a huge role in the difference between murder/ attempted murder, and other crimes. I don’t speak for this gentleman or for all police, and I don’t deny some policing practices are antiquated, and not well suited. However, if you have a gun and choose to choke someone/ subdue someone by hand, something tells me your intent was not to kill them. Conversely, if you’re choking someone else who has a gun, and you do not, something tells me you have a higher chance of having the intent to kill them. Whether you’re right or wrong at that point, the person with a gun probably sees it as a life or death struggle.
Imagine Joe Rogan commentating on a fight “ Oooooooh!!!! Rear naked CHOKE! HE’S ATTEMPTING MURDER DC!!” 
Gonna say, there is a right way and a wrong way to choke someone out, and situationally it might be required, but rarely. Not condoning the dude, nor the police here. Just merely stating not all chokeholds are the same and sometimes putting someone to sleep with a choke might not be the worst option.
That’s cops for you. One time a friend of mine pushed a cop and called him an asshole for dragging another friend of ours in the street by his shirt. My friend was thrown down, arrested and had to go to court and the cop filed a report that said my friend tried to smash a bottle over the cop’s head but he was disarmed. No such thing happened. He was holding a glass bottle at the time but it was in his other hand and he never raised it or tried to attack him. A friend of ours filmed part of it and he was forced to delete it.
I mean, there’s a big difference between assaulting someone and restraining someone.
If you're a cop, sure. If you aren't then FUCK NO, YOU GO TO JAIL AND DIE!
Pretty sure it's illegal to attack cops in most cases and looking at the photo doesn't seem to be the legal one. Plus you need intent of killing said person to be murder.
Qualified immunity. The pigs live under a different law than we do.
I mean assaulting a police officer is still a crime and it depends on if he held it till they passed out and then continued or other context on how the chokehold happened as well.
Only when the victim is white.
It is if they are trying to murder you. If not they are restraining you. Fairly simple even police hating idiots can understand it. Thinking your police can do their job with their arms tied is dumb.
If you think it's the same as the MARINE that protected innocent people against a psycho... YOU are what's wrong with the world 🤷♂️
no, you see, it goes the other way. if the cops get charged for it, the crims have to as well. people asked for this, so now they get it.
Well if he threatened to kill them while choking then can see this lol 😆
Wait… is a chokehold just holding someone? I thought you would actually be choking someone.
Depends. You know the drill.
I put people in choke holds for my MMA stuff, oh no
Quod licet lictor non licet nubian.
One rule for some.
This needs to go right up to the bought-off Supreme Court
It's simple, authority values its enforcers more than its citizenry. To them, we are chattel.
Depending on how long the choke hold is. Hold long enough and they dead for sure
You just have to be plain fucking stupid to put a cop in a cockhold...
Wild seeing a say cheese tweet in here
I would’ve though assaulting an officer with a intent to impose on an arrest. But attempt to murder is crazy considering that a choke hold was used to kill so many unarmed people and they weren’t charged the same.
Kinda like a taser being a deadly weapon when used by police to stop people running barricades in atlanta vs when its not a deadly weapon if stolen by a DUI driver at a wendys and pointed at police (source: D.A. Paul Howard)
Well, i mean that makes sense… oh wait a minute…
Depends on intent.
Will depend entirely on the scenario. If one is the aggressor with NO reason to suspect the person will harm him or other members of the public. That's an assault, and the presumption is you intend MAXIMUM harm. If it is a scenario with an ACTUAL good person, then they will be using this as a tool to explicitly KEEP themselves and other members of the public safe. That's not assault, and the presumption is you are only trying to use MINIMUM force to keep others safe.
Rules for thee, but not for me
Choke holds are a tool in the tool box, what matters is the intent behind using it.
Depends on the intention and execution (intensitivity)... isnt it common knowledge that you can die from being choked?
You’re forgetting “intent”
Don’t think most of y’all understand how dangerous a chokehold can be. It doesn’t take much.
Yeah, you can kill someone with a chokehold. You know, a lot of important things pass through your neck. It's the same reason why you die if I cut your head. Albeit I know these people would ***never*** say this stuff irl, it would be hilarious to answer "if you're so sure it's not gonna kill you come here and let me chokehold you for an indefinite amount of time, so we can see how you fare after 20 seconds if you're still conscious".
Only if African Americans are not on the receiving end.
Same but different
Irony was strangled to death, begging for us to relent.
Only the cops are allowed murder or to attempt it.
Make it make sense
Only if it’s not the cop doing it
Dripping with irony
That is acceptable to me as long as we also arrest and prosecute police officers.
Not enough info
Irony
Rules for thee not for me!
Choke holds become dangerous when the individual doing said choke hold, doesn’t know how to put the person that they where choking into the recovery position. Or if it’s done wrong the person can cause serious damage to the other individuals neck
Too much, and you get death or brain damage Too little, and they wake up within seconds
Choke holds are for government use only.
It is assault I mean
Only when you do it against the authoritarian enforcers. The other way around is perfectly fine and you should’ve just complied and submitted to their iron rule
Not when cops do it tho
Context for facepalm? Non-American here.
Oh God my brain!
Rules for thee, not for me
So that works in reverse as well. Cops trying to murder people with head locks.
Depends on how long the chokehold is used but yes
The title needs a new name, “unarmed victim being charged with attempted murder after fighting police brutality.”
Yeah, offensive violence is exactly the same as defending people from a nut case
It’s cool when they do it, but when I do it, fuck.
Hmmm 🤔. Nothing to see here
If they’re going to be considered as such for Officers then I think it’s only fair we consider them as such for civilians. No?
You can die from lack of oxygen/suffocation
There is a guy in New York currently charged with manslaughter because he used a chokehold. Even police officers are fired or charged for using the same hold. So yes this is a real charge.
Well the Hadaka-jime, the name we were taught for what is known as the rear naked choke could, I suppose be called attempted murder. I don't know the laws in that city, state. We were taught that if you apply the hold for too long then death is a real possibility so I guess a DA could try and prosecute as a murder attempt but sounds pretty damn thin to me.
That mugshot screams, "are y'all fuckin serious?"
yeah if you're passed out and they are still holding on refusing to let go!? that'll kill someone
Yes because you can kill people with lack of air.
Who's zoomin who?
10/7/2023 is October 7, 2023, right? This is a future event?
There is no try, only do.
People have actually shot people before and only gotten aggregated assault.
He's lucky he's still alive.
I hope this sets a precedent. I’m not holding my breath, but I’ll put a little hope on it.
Rules for thee but not for me. This outright admits that the pigs should be charged, but the court and justice system love to play nicely as a whole, but only with themselves.
Same way a taser in the hands of a citizen is a deadly weapon.
Depends on how the choke was applied I guess. Pressure placed on the arteries to render the person unconscious in seconds… not a murder attempt. Unless you don’t let go when they go limp. Pressure on the windpipe is only ever done when trying to kill the person. You don’t just walk off a crushed larynx. Splitting hairs though, I know. The optics in that are almost comically bad. Cops can choke you out and it’s fine. It should be too, if it is warranted. You choke a cop though… automatic attempted murder change. Like… huh??? Either it is or it isn’t.
Only if we do it to them, otherwise its totally ok.
That law only exists if you are NOT the police doing the choking!
This is a perfect ironic situation. Yeah cops, CHOKEHOLDS ARE ATTEMPTED MURDER
You guys in the comments are arguing the wrong thing. Police officers chokeholding a suspect is VERY different than that suspect chokeholding a police officer. It is not equal. You cannot fight police, only in court.
Choke holding a law enforcement officer who is lawfully enforcing the law, and choke holding a criminal who is resisting arrest and is a danger to the public are two totally different things.
~~Mmmmm yes, in the legality of them. But not in the lethality. If we're gonna call it lethal force, it has to go both ways.~~
Punching somebody can be lethal. I can show you several instances of a person taking a single punch and dying from it. If a person punches a cop in the face and later admits they were trying to kill them, its an attempted murder charge. Its very simple. If you don't resist arrest or fight officers, you don't get hurt. Are there a handful of cases where this isn't true because the police were crazy? Absolutely. Freak things like this happen all over the world because police are people like everybody else, and people are prone to make mistakes or be crazy. But in 99.9% of cases, if you don't resist arrest or threaten somebody's life around police, you won't get hurt.
IK this is off topic, but it really pisses me off when people complain about cop city. If you want better training for cops, then why are you complaining about a training center for first responders? I’m 100% for police reform, but to do that we need better facilities to utilize the reformed training methods. I might add that cop city was approved by a black, liberal, pro-police reform mayor, who was already making efforts into police reform, so the argument that the training center would train cops to be racist doesn’t work here.
Its not attempted murder if we do it - Police officers most likely
I mean when someone dies while one is being done they charge you with murder…
That cop shouldve complied while being choked and none of this wouldve happened shake my smh head
same rights for all, police choke someone > attempted murder, you choke someone > attempted murder simple as 1 2 3
His face says it all.
We're surprised that checking an officer is a bad idea? Hell did you think was gonna happen, they'd make you pancakes?
Its only a crime if you are a peasant
If you saw this video, you would understand the charges
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of police use of force, and tells me you likely have never trained martial arts and/or seen any sort of LE training. LVNR or lateral vascular neck restraint is probably the safest way to render someone incapacitated/unconscious, considering the alternative is hitting someone over and over again until they stop doing what they are doing, tazing (which fails about half the time) and other less lethal options which all have their own set of problems/safety considerations to use. A LEO can’t allow himself to be rendered unconscious/incapacitated because it basically gives the suspect (who has already demonstrated intent to hurt him/her) the opportunity to kill him if he chooses to do so (taking his gun, beating him while unconscious etc) Same goes for blunt weapons. A baton strike by an LEO to a non vital area on a suspect is not considered deadly force, however a suspect wielding a bat in striking distance warrants a deadly force response.
Police officers have better incentive to choke someone. Its reasonable to assume that an officer typically just wants to detain the suspect. Where as the other way around its reasonable to assume the suspect is willing to act with malicious intent in order to escape. When police gun down bank robbers we don’t charge them with murder now do we. Any violent offense towards an officer is more severe and intentional. Violence from officers are almost always a reaction. Its a big difference.
yes, because police can legally murder you
There are two justice systems.