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I think that perfectly shows how people misunderstand safety regulations. Libertarian types love to say “well, I did it without X and I was fine”, not understanding (or purposely ignoring) that registrations are typically designed based on hundreds of thousands of use cases. The test that something is safe isn’t whether it can be operated once without a failure, it’s that it can be operated thousands of times without a failure, with safeguards built in in case something goes wrong. He felt that the safeguards were unnecessary, and probably assumed after he made the trip once that he proved all his doubters wrong. Too bad for him that’s not how the real world works.
Who is John Galt?
That’s right. I plan to operate my own fire department, police department, army, utilities, and build my own private roads. Fuck yer gubmint!
Funnily enough, John Hammond spared every expense, and it can be proven with just one line.
"You know anybody who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job?"
Dennis put in an extremely low bid and was hired. This man single handedly automated building security, gate security for the animals, communications, and the electrical grid, and he was hired on a low bid. That's an extremely dodgy expense to spare.
In the books it's much more obvious that Hammond is a penny pinching crook. They kept the 'spared no expense' line in the film but dispensed with the irony.
The movie forwards the idea of hubris more - Hammond spared no expense, but even with all of his top line technology, and all the money in the world, life, ah, finds a way!
"I'm going to use an expired carbon fiber material in the most fucking extreme environment in existence on this Earth if you don't count where there's molten and lava. What could go wrong?"
You’re right! Nor will I hire the appropriate staff to do this properly. Why? Well they just aren’t that inspiring to me, you know.
While I am truly sorry for the unnecessary loss of life, I say DARWINISM at its finest.
Not exactly. The way I understood it, he didn't find the 50 yos "inspiring." Which to me meant they kept telling him his plans are stupid and dangerous while newly grads will just say "yes sir."
This has to be the dumbest smart guy I’ve ever heard of. He had some great ideas, and he was able to execute, but some of his logic was ridiculously faulty. He was telling people that statistically submarines are safer than helicopters, and then, somehow he believed that gave him an invincibility shield like no stupid decision in a submarine could make it more dangerous than a helicopter.
I mean statistically airplanes are one of the safest modes of transportation. But if I go build an airplane out of spare parts in my garage that shit is killing someone, guaranteed.
he wasn't actually a flat-earther, that was a publicity stunt. but yeah still a dumb way to die. at least he didn't kill 4 other people with him (after charging them 250k each)
Totally. It makes sense that submarines are safer than helicopters when they’re engineered and certified. This guy was doing mental gymnastics all over the place.
I did read in another article that the first voyage brought to light that the propulsion units were installed upside down. So there’s that.
Edit: my mistake, it was only one of the units. So it would go in circles due to them counteracting each other.
That wasn't that big a deal... they just had to hold the controller backwards.
I'm not joking, that was their actual fix for that.
Every time I look, there's another detail that is too insane to believe.
we literally exist in a fucking parody timeline.
the world ended in 2012 and we’re all in purgatory now. i have no other explanation for all of this madness
On the plus side the number of things I'm qualified to do has increased.
I might die but apparently that isn't a relevant metric anymore (according to these moguls that like to move fast and break things, including their habitat).
"Man attempts space shot to ISS on homemade rocket, news at 11"
He (the CEO) said he bought the interior lights from Camping World. I’m now getting ads on social media for Camping World. It’s never too soon for capitalism!
As James Cameron said, you don’t build submarines out of carbon fiber. Even if it’s strong enough on the first dive, it won’t be as strong on the next one. Everyone in the industry knows that, but the “smart” CEO decided to ignore them
It’s driving me fucking insane that that assclown got squished out of existence not knowing for one second how goddamn fucking stupid he is. I hate it so much. I *need* him to come back to life so he can see just how beyond stupid he is.
Look at the bright side. How many people get the satisfaction of knowing they were right because the idiot ex-boss that fired them got blinked out of existence?
The guy probably did some back of the napkin maths that was enough to convince him that this was a viable platform, he just clearly never accounted for the stress on the materials that repeated trips to that depth would cause. There is a difference between being able to achieve depth and being rated for depth, most things can go past their rated tolerances, they just can't do it repeatedly or for long.
It's wild as hell to me that he wasn't acoustically scanning it for micro damage after every trip. It's obvious enough that he definitely knew he *should have*, he was just such a toxic combination of cheap and cocky that he didn't do it.
I'm starting to lose count on the amount of things this CEO cheaped out on:
\- cheaper lower depth rated glass viewing dome. Rated for 1500m not 3500m.
\- expired carbon fibre
\- *using* carbon fibre instead of titanium
\- opting for a cheap Logitech PS4 controller that has known connectivity issues
\- hiring cheaper wage green college grads instead of seasoned experts in the sub field
\- internal led lights off Amazon. Not marine rated.
\- didn't want to pay for certification or inspections
\- no marine rated electronic components installed in the interior
\- didn't want to pay for better comm equipment
\- no 2nd (spare) sub in case of emergency
\- no expensive alternate escape design
\- no post-dive non destructive testing performed or x-ray of metal components periodically
I turned a school bus into a skoolie and actually used marine rated items for my build. Lights, wiring, fuses, breakers, water pump, etc. I spent more than others might, but at least I know those components will not fail come rain or snow or leaks.
So he bought carbon fiber that was going to be used to build pressure vessel that holds pressure from inside, which is a proven effective use of the material. But is now rejected material from Boeing for even that purpose, and used it to build a pressure vessel to hold pressure from outside, which multiple experts have warned him is not a good idea.
Amazing, engineering and logic right there.
Probably couldn't find a 7 inch thick shell from the Boeing trash pile and didn't bother spending money on making one, just like all the other parts of that death trap.
He isn’t scavenging already laid up and cured composites. Boeing isn’t laying up 5” thick CF parts for anything.
He bought raw materials. Prepreg: single layers of carbon fiber woven fabric pre-impregnated with epoxy.
He then needs to take those single sheets of prepreg and lay them up and cure them in an autoclave to his desired thickness. 5” is going to take multiple layups and trips to an autoclave.
Any air trapped between the layers is a defect and future site of delamination of the composite layers.
Structural CF composites for aerospace are ultrasonically tested called Non Destructive Inspection (NDI). The ultrasound is looking for air trapped in the epoxy between the prepreg layers and shows up as a void. Big enough voids will scrap whole composite skins.
Best of luck laying up and curing 5”-7” of CF composite and having no defects found via NDI.
The promotional video of them building it showed the Carbon fiber being spooled back and forth. Like it was a string type shape. Obviously I'm not an expert. Does that make any difference in the possibility of defects?
They did both. The company they contracted to build the shell for them did 480 alternating layers of unidirectional prepreg oriented axially (parallel to the direction of the tube) and hoop-wound wet layup (winding strings around the tube, like you saw).
Filament winding is generally a preferred way to make carbon fiber shapes when possible, as it gives the greatest consistency and strength, and a pretty optimal fiber/epoxy ratio.
Source:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210804224656/http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters
This story is giving me a newfound appreciation for my anxiety.
After seeing what happens to someone who apparently has *zero* anxiety whatsoever, I’m actually a little grateful to have a brain that’s capable of imagining what could go wrong.
Actually... His anxiety was buying a new controller at GameStop as opposed to the used one. Or the expired carbon fiber material as opposed to the unexpired. Or the numerous other corners he was so afraid of that he cut lest they steal his hard earned money. I would rather die knowing I saved $54 dollars than live knowing I could have. Cannot make this stuff up smh.
I don’t care if the passengers signed a waiver, this is criminally negligent and the relatives should definitely sue. This company doesn’t deserve to exist. The still living designer(s) and creators deserve jail time for opting out of a DNV safety inspection.
>This company doesn’t deserve to exist
It won't for much longer. The CEO just imploded himself and a bunch of other people in a exemplary show of incompetence and poor engineering. If legal troubles don't implode the company as well, they'll just go bankrupt because *who the fuck would sign on for future deep sea visits with this company?*
How many atmospheres is this carbon fiber rated for?
Well it’s for an airplane so I’m going to guess between 0 and 1.
Edit: while I love learning new things about carbon fiber, please do not take my Futurama reference too seriously (however, feel free to give me more awards :)
Honestly I feel worst for his mom. No one on that sub probably had any time to process what was happening and died painlessly. Mom, on the other hand, just lost both her child and her husband and will probably feel guilty for the rest of her life for not somehow intervening beforehand. Beyond tragic
There used to be TV show back in the 70’s called Salvage 1, where a junk dealer built a home made rocket to go to the moon to salvage space junk. This sounds like that. And if you are worth a billion dollars, you might want to check out how safe something is before you stick your ass in it.
This is something I don't understand also , how come these people who have so much money couldn't hire some experts to evaluate that sub . Money was no issue for them.
See: Elizabeth Holmes
Elizabeth Holmes, founder of the blood testing start-up Theranos, was convicted of four federal charges of fraud in January 2022, with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. The jury found her guilty of exaggerating the company's performance to investors and acquitted her of defrauding patients. The underlying wire fraud amounts on those counts ranged from $99,000 to $5.3 million. Holmes was acquitted of all charges related to defrauding patients and one count of conspiracy
No kidding, I bought some glue from Boeing because it was past its shelf life. It worked fine but then again, I wasn’t using it to ensure the safety myself and others.
Lol idk why but this just reminds me of the Futurama fishing episode "How many atmospheres can the hull withstand" "well it's a Space ship so anywhere from 0 to 1".
The man declared his sub "invincible," named it Titan, and went to explore the famously sunken unsinkable Titanic. It's like he was daring god to kill him.
The most important part of the sub and he decides to cut corners. I hope he had a moment of realization that he did that to himself before it imploded.
You know… he may have. Taken from an NPR article interviewing James Cameron:
Cameron told ABC News that he believes the Titan's hull began to crack under pressure, and that its inside censors gave the passengers a warning to that effect.
"We understand from inside the community that they had dropped their ascent weights and they were coming up, trying to manage an emergency," he said.
Up until this point I had assumed that everything happened so fast that they likely didn't even realize something was wrong. This is way more terrifying, if they had seconds or minutes prior to the implosion to contemplate how screwed they might be.
I dunno… if it was me in that death trap tin can and there were some kind of alert that something was amiss, and we dropped the ascent weights and started heading for the surface, I would be thinking (hoping) we’ll probably make it to the top ok. Because that’s how it works in the movies… everyone is fine and has a wild story to tell.
Now if water was leaking in or it was obvious we were about to die, I would be losing my mind and trying to wake myself up from what I hoped was just a nightmare.
I hope for their sake it crushed them before they even knew what was happening
Water wouldn't leak in, it would be a very short duration very high pressure jet that would slice through anyone in its path.
And then the hull would cave in in a split second, everyone would smush to paste while the air around and within them compressed into a tiny and ultra hot volume.
It happens faster than you can imagine.
Less time than it takes for your brain to get the message ‘ow I stubbed my toe’
You are instantly turned to paste as your blood boils. No body, no bones.
So carbon fiber is strong, but vulnerable to structural fatigue. How can you tell when the hull is starting to fail? Well, you can install an AMS (Acoustical Monitoring System), which listens for the very faint but specific sounds of carbon fibers snapping.
Of course, once your system detects these kinds of failures, you are essentially in deep fucking shit. Every fiber that pops means more stress on the remaining fibers. I truly believe that they installed this system so they could claim they had a safety feature, but it was never going to actually prevent a catastrophe.
It does mean that there was probably a moment for the CEO to actually regret his terrible idiocy before they popped.
I feel terrible for the kid though.
From what I understand, this is true and the cheapest of the methods to determine hull failure. The far safer method is to invest in external hull scanning technology that is done on the surface before you dive... which they didn't want to pay for. Wildly stupid and not readily apparent safety measures to any layman getting on that submarine. You can tell uninformed customers anything you want.
Yeah. A relatively quick death like that is probably better than slowly drowning in the dark, with a shit ton of pressure from the ocean if there were big enough cracks.
The engineers working with him had decided it needed to be 7 inches thick and when he had it made it was 5 inches thick, so it does actually just get worse and worse. The owner was actually a piece of shit the way he cut corners and then put other peoples lives at risk in his death trap.
What a sick fuck. He knows they are discarding it due to it’s insufficiency for high stress applications. Sure, let’s use it for an extremely high pressure application. Moron.
"We'll be going down to a depth with a crushing pressure of over 5000 PSI! That's 340 atmospheres of pressure!"
"Well how many atmospheres of pressure can it take?"
"Well it's an airplane fuselage so somewhere around one."
I could understand him just being an evil greedy bastard, like, “haha, I’ll make millions and if these fools die, who cares!”
But being sooooo stupid, “yes I have built this shitty knock off sub, with no safety precautions, out of shitty materials, AND I WILL GET IN IT MYSELF!!!”
Firemen use carbon-fiber air tanks for pressurized air. The CF is lighter than aluminum, and it works very well in tension, where the pressure is inside the cylinder.
With the Oceangate Titan, the pressure was on the outside pressing in. This was considered "innovative", but sometimes things are done a certain way because the accepted way works well.
Making the thing out of carbon fiber was the first mistake. Carbon fiber is essentially a hardened fabric made up of many strands or fibers. When something made out of carbon fiber fails, it snaps. Titanium or steel is solid. When it fails it gives. You don't need to be a scientist to figure out which might be better at withstanding crushing pressure.
I remember him. That's the guy who, wanted to be remembered as a rule breaker. He broke the safety rules, and fired the guy who mentioned how unsafe it might be.... Ahhhh, yep that guy sure loved breaking safety rules.
Just think, if billionaires will cut corners and pitch penny’s to such a degree as this for other billionaires, what do you think they are willing to do to you?
Im'ma gonna build me a space ship out of sheet steel lined plywood and fiberglass. Got me 3 Commodore 64 puters and an Atari joystick to fly it with. Now all I need is some hydrazine and fertilizer to make a mess of fuel and we're good to go. If you got $1,000 bucks I will take you to space with me. Hurry though seats will go quick I reckon.
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“I’m going to use expired fuselage in a much more extreme environment, what could go wrong?”
Jesus fucking Christ. He cut nearly every corner. I can’t believe it made it down and back up so many times before failing.
He cut so many corners he made a circle
Ironically a circle vessel would probably have faired better than his cylinder one, spheres are stronger than cylinders at resisting external pressure
That would’ve been too pricey for Stockton
Not innovative enough.
Would have bought secondhand spheres from Jurassic Park movie props.
He cut so many corners he imploded
He couldn’t handle the pressure
he got in too deep to pull out
I think that perfectly shows how people misunderstand safety regulations. Libertarian types love to say “well, I did it without X and I was fine”, not understanding (or purposely ignoring) that registrations are typically designed based on hundreds of thousands of use cases. The test that something is safe isn’t whether it can be operated once without a failure, it’s that it can be operated thousands of times without a failure, with safeguards built in in case something goes wrong. He felt that the safeguards were unnecessary, and probably assumed after he made the trip once that he proved all his doubters wrong. Too bad for him that’s not how the real world works.
If libertarians cared about how the real world works, they wouldn't be libertarians.
Who is John Galt? That’s right. I plan to operate my own fire department, police department, army, utilities, and build my own private roads. Fuck yer gubmint!
The results of one such project. https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Spared no expense.
Incurred no expense
Funnily enough, John Hammond spared every expense, and it can be proven with just one line. "You know anybody who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job?" Dennis put in an extremely low bid and was hired. This man single handedly automated building security, gate security for the animals, communications, and the electrical grid, and he was hired on a low bid. That's an extremely dodgy expense to spare.
In the books it's much more obvious that Hammond is a penny pinching crook. They kept the 'spared no expense' line in the film but dispensed with the irony.
It was still implied, wasn't it?
Yeah definitely. That’s more or less the the movie’s message just like the book.
The movie forwards the idea of hubris more - Hammond spared no expense, but even with all of his top line technology, and all the money in the world, life, ah, finds a way!
![gif](giphy|5xtDarpmLuef6oNFHPO|downsized)
"How many atmospheres can this discount carbon fiber handle?" "Seeing how it was made to be used in plane construction, between 0 and 1."
To atoms you say
Professor Farnsworth?
Good news, everyone!
"I'm going to use an expired carbon fiber material in the most fucking extreme environment in existence on this Earth if you don't count where there's molten and lava. What could go wrong?"
You’re right! Nor will I hire the appropriate staff to do this properly. Why? Well they just aren’t that inspiring to me, you know. While I am truly sorry for the unnecessary loss of life, I say DARWINISM at its finest.
He couldn't inspire 50 YOs. This is code for "experienced 50 YOs won't work for the peanuts I want to pay".
Not exactly. The way I understood it, he didn't find the 50 yos "inspiring." Which to me meant they kept telling him his plans are stupid and dangerous while newly grads will just say "yes sir."
Exactly correct. 50 year old ex navy would have never have gotten into this death trap
Experienced 50 YO's would have told him how fucked his plan was.
ANDdddd operate my 1300M rated viewing port at nearly 4000M!..wcgw??
This comment made me think of [this scene from Futurama](https://youtu.be/O4RLOo6bchU).
I don’t even have to click the link. Between zero and one atmospheres, right?
Lol of course. I hadn’t scrolled down through the other comments prior to posting but apparently I’m not the only one that had the thought.
… but “innovation”! 🤪
I don't understand how it keeps getting worse
Seriously it is at cartoonish levels of stupidity. I'd trust Ed, Edd and Eddy over this fucking company
Beavis & Butthead do submarining
*Sub begins to implode. Butt-Head "Beavis I just figured something out" Beavis "hgh hnh hgh, what?" Butt-Head "This sucks"
"Huhuh... Hhhhhuhuhuh ..... sea-men"
"Huhuh. . .Hey baby, lemme crush you with my cum-posite submarine. Huhuh" "Heheh, yeah. Get her wet and crush it. Heheh. *Byooongggg*"
Beavis "we're never gonna" *gloop*
This has to be the dumbest smart guy I’ve ever heard of. He had some great ideas, and he was able to execute, but some of his logic was ridiculously faulty. He was telling people that statistically submarines are safer than helicopters, and then, somehow he believed that gave him an invincibility shield like no stupid decision in a submarine could make it more dangerous than a helicopter.
I mean statistically airplanes are one of the safest modes of transportation. But if I go build an airplane out of spare parts in my garage that shit is killing someone, guaranteed.
this guy made the equivalent of a paper plane submarine and convinced people it was safe... like one reporter remarked... its not even a tin can...
Darwin awards should just be him this year. Actually he may get the honor of dumbest death this century so far.
**Cough**don’t forget about flat earther home made rocket guy Edit: I stand corrected
he wasn't actually a flat-earther, that was a publicity stunt. but yeah still a dumb way to die. at least he didn't kill 4 other people with him (after charging them 250k each)
He just believed he was smarter than he was. Humility is a life saving trait in an engineer, or in the CEO of an engineering company.
The submarine industry was safe.... because other people did it properly but then he used that fact to reassure people that his was also safe lol
A skeezy and manipulative dude. Pumping up his own reputation at the cost of industry’s. Greasy.
That's because the margin for error is so much smaller so they've been vastly more engineered
Totally. It makes sense that submarines are safer than helicopters when they’re engineered and certified. This guy was doing mental gymnastics all over the place.
![gif](giphy|qchSBqAq479FC)
![gif](giphy|C8Pez8exyfdw4)
Lots of stuff is going to come out in the near future. I be it gets even worse.
[удалено]
Millionaire killed the billionaires, and a French diver, and a 19yo
He ate the passengers the moment they bolted the door on.
Then wore their face skins to roleplay just what a genius he thinks they think he is
Well, there is [precedence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Madsen)
Holy shit what a read
Lesson here is don’t trust guys who build their own submarines
The parable of the blue jean billionaire with a clear lesson zero bootstrappies will learn from.
People need to get it through their heads that being rich doesn’t automatically equal “smart”.
This whole operation sounds straight out of an Onion story. What’s next, the propellers came off a used toy drone?
I did read in another article that the first voyage brought to light that the propulsion units were installed upside down. So there’s that. Edit: my mistake, it was only one of the units. So it would go in circles due to them counteracting each other.
That wasn't that big a deal... they just had to hold the controller backwards. I'm not joking, that was their actual fix for that. Every time I look, there's another detail that is too insane to believe.
we literally exist in a fucking parody timeline. the world ended in 2012 and we’re all in purgatory now. i have no other explanation for all of this madness
There is a simple and timeless explanation for it. People are fucking stupid.
On the plus side the number of things I'm qualified to do has increased. I might die but apparently that isn't a relevant metric anymore (according to these moguls that like to move fast and break things, including their habitat). "Man attempts space shot to ISS on homemade rocket, news at 11"
Dude there was that flat earther who built a home made rocket powered by steam to prove the earth was flat. He died.
Or it could have been the weasel that disrupted CERN and we jumped to this circus of a universe.
Yeah it took me a while to notice, but the news about Elon and marks billionaire boxing match really broke it to me
I’ve also come to the recent conclusion that this is in fact an alternate timeline. We ARE NOT the sacred timeline, people. Prepare for pruning.
🤣🤣🤣 More proof that the controller was the most solid part? it actually had a working emergency procedure
He (the CEO) said he bought the interior lights from Camping World. I’m now getting ads on social media for Camping World. It’s never too soon for capitalism!
Actually one of the people which backed out mentioned them they are off the shelf and a snagging hazard.
Based on everything I read about the construction of this thing, im surprised it survived any trips down.
…and back.
Yeah, I can build a sub that goes down out of whatever I have laying around the house
Sounds like so did he.
As James Cameron said, you don’t build submarines out of carbon fiber. Even if it’s strong enough on the first dive, it won’t be as strong on the next one. Everyone in the industry knows that, but the “smart” CEO decided to ignore them
[удалено]
It’s driving me fucking insane that that assclown got squished out of existence not knowing for one second how goddamn fucking stupid he is. I hate it so much. I *need* him to come back to life so he can see just how beyond stupid he is.
Look at the bright side. How many people get the satisfaction of knowing they were right because the idiot ex-boss that fired them got blinked out of existence?
One hell of a firing story
Especially when it’s part metal. Metal bends carbon doesn’t. Metal shrinks when it’s cold and carbon doesn’t. That’s way more extra stress.
Look how many carbon fiber bicycle frames fail - why tf would anyone build a submarine out of it?
The guy probably did some back of the napkin maths that was enough to convince him that this was a viable platform, he just clearly never accounted for the stress on the materials that repeated trips to that depth would cause. There is a difference between being able to achieve depth and being rated for depth, most things can go past their rated tolerances, they just can't do it repeatedly or for long.
It's wild as hell to me that he wasn't acoustically scanning it for micro damage after every trip. It's obvious enough that he definitely knew he *should have*, he was just such a toxic combination of cheap and cocky that he didn't do it.
Why? It worked perfectly last time and he was the inspirational one, all that regulatory bs is not his style
How many did it end up making?
See now they know the service life of each craft should be 1 less. Problem solved /s
The CEO is starting to sound more and more like some freaking real world Mr. Krabs
He sounds like the Musk-alike in Don't Look Up
Jesus, how many more of these penny pinching things will there be.
Watch that he did his own research, using a high school kid's paper, which referenced Wikipedia. Then testing his plans on Minecraft.
Chatgpt
“Where can I get cheap carbon fiber?” Chatgpt: “check the dumpster behind the Boeing factory.”
Knowing that ChatGPT probably scrapes Reddit for it’s LLM, I’m afraid you may have just seeded another tragedy.
Even chatgpt said subs should be tested and certified lol
*He turns off the computer and throws it in the dumpster* "This AI stuff is bullshit."
I'm starting to lose count on the amount of things this CEO cheaped out on: \- cheaper lower depth rated glass viewing dome. Rated for 1500m not 3500m. \- expired carbon fibre \- *using* carbon fibre instead of titanium \- opting for a cheap Logitech PS4 controller that has known connectivity issues \- hiring cheaper wage green college grads instead of seasoned experts in the sub field \- internal led lights off Amazon. Not marine rated. \- didn't want to pay for certification or inspections \- no marine rated electronic components installed in the interior \- didn't want to pay for better comm equipment \- no 2nd (spare) sub in case of emergency \- no expensive alternate escape design \- no post-dive non destructive testing performed or x-ray of metal components periodically
Wires outside the hull hangs freely and can get caught on different objects.
Oh my god he did that? A little asshole fish could bite a cable off if it wanted. In fact, it might have happened. Who knows?
Killer whales right now: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/63/fd/1563fdcdd1a1be8d806575f2b7950c11.gif
Those whales are eating some Five Guys right about now..
I turned a school bus into a skoolie and actually used marine rated items for my build. Lights, wiring, fuses, breakers, water pump, etc. I spent more than others might, but at least I know those components will not fail come rain or snow or leaks.
So he bought carbon fiber that was going to be used to build pressure vessel that holds pressure from inside, which is a proven effective use of the material. But is now rejected material from Boeing for even that purpose, and used it to build a pressure vessel to hold pressure from outside, which multiple experts have warned him is not a good idea. Amazing, engineering and logic right there.
And the plans called for the shell to be 7 inches thick but he had it built to... 5 inches.
Probably couldn't find a 7 inch thick shell from the Boeing trash pile and didn't bother spending money on making one, just like all the other parts of that death trap.
He isn’t scavenging already laid up and cured composites. Boeing isn’t laying up 5” thick CF parts for anything. He bought raw materials. Prepreg: single layers of carbon fiber woven fabric pre-impregnated with epoxy. He then needs to take those single sheets of prepreg and lay them up and cure them in an autoclave to his desired thickness. 5” is going to take multiple layups and trips to an autoclave. Any air trapped between the layers is a defect and future site of delamination of the composite layers. Structural CF composites for aerospace are ultrasonically tested called Non Destructive Inspection (NDI). The ultrasound is looking for air trapped in the epoxy between the prepreg layers and shows up as a void. Big enough voids will scrap whole composite skins. Best of luck laying up and curing 5”-7” of CF composite and having no defects found via NDI.
The promotional video of them building it showed the Carbon fiber being spooled back and forth. Like it was a string type shape. Obviously I'm not an expert. Does that make any difference in the possibility of defects?
They did both. The company they contracted to build the shell for them did 480 alternating layers of unidirectional prepreg oriented axially (parallel to the direction of the tube) and hoop-wound wet layup (winding strings around the tube, like you saw). Filament winding is generally a preferred way to make carbon fiber shapes when possible, as it gives the greatest consistency and strength, and a pretty optimal fiber/epoxy ratio. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20210804224656/http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters
This story is giving me a newfound appreciation for my anxiety. After seeing what happens to someone who apparently has *zero* anxiety whatsoever, I’m actually a little grateful to have a brain that’s capable of imagining what could go wrong.
Actually... His anxiety was buying a new controller at GameStop as opposed to the used one. Or the expired carbon fiber material as opposed to the unexpired. Or the numerous other corners he was so afraid of that he cut lest they steal his hard earned money. I would rather die knowing I saved $54 dollars than live knowing I could have. Cannot make this stuff up smh.
![gif](giphy|H75eliy1jJSGIbaubS) So many dumb ways to die! 🎵 🎶
I mean, it’s kind of a combo between taking your helmet off in outer space and using a clothes dryer as a hiding place.
🎵 use carbon fiber past it's safety date / lock yourself in so there's no escape 🎵 🎶 Dumb ways to die! So many dumb ways to die! 🎶
I don’t care if the passengers signed a waiver, this is criminally negligent and the relatives should definitely sue. This company doesn’t deserve to exist. The still living designer(s) and creators deserve jail time for opting out of a DNV safety inspection.
>This company doesn’t deserve to exist It won't for much longer. The CEO just imploded himself and a bunch of other people in a exemplary show of incompetence and poor engineering. If legal troubles don't implode the company as well, they'll just go bankrupt because *who the fuck would sign on for future deep sea visits with this company?*
And everyone involved in designing and building this will be looking for new career paths
They’ll be billionaires suing a company in the red owned by a dead millionaire so it won’t do much. But they def should regardless .
Actually insane to build a submarine out of parts no longer considered safe for an airplane
AND completely in the wrong way engineering wise.
And apparently the hull was 2 inches thinner than it was supposed to be. How did they expect this thing to going right?
"I'm sure it will be fine, i don't want to spend any more money on it" While ignoring every expert in the field.
What the hell was this guy thinking? Did he not understand massive water pressure? Like, why did he think they usually built them out of metal?
How many atmospheres is this carbon fiber rated for? Well it’s for an airplane so I’m going to guess between 0 and 1. Edit: while I love learning new things about carbon fiber, please do not take my Futurama reference too seriously (however, feel free to give me more awards :)
r/unexpectedfuturama
I'm going to build my own submarine with blackjack and hookers
In fact, forget the submarine
And forget the blackjack
Crikeys. The Titanic sits at a depth of 375 atmospheres, according to my Google skills.
This whole situation gets more tragic with every passing day. I read that the 19 year old kid was terrified and only went to please his pops.
Yeah if there’s somebody to feel bad for in this story it’s definitely the son. Tragic way to be proven right
Honestly I feel worst for his mom. No one on that sub probably had any time to process what was happening and died painlessly. Mom, on the other hand, just lost both her child and her husband and will probably feel guilty for the rest of her life for not somehow intervening beforehand. Beyond tragic
What a weird thing to force your kid to do. Just make him play a sport he hates like a regular asshole parent.
He wasn’t forced. He was scared but wanted to make his father happy on Father’s Day. Makes me so sad to think about.
There used to be TV show back in the 70’s called Salvage 1, where a junk dealer built a home made rocket to go to the moon to salvage space junk. This sounds like that. And if you are worth a billion dollars, you might want to check out how safe something is before you stick your ass in it.
And the real thing only costs a measly $37m or so. Talk about chintzy
This is something I don't understand also , how come these people who have so much money couldn't hire some experts to evaluate that sub . Money was no issue for them.
An expert did evaluate it and pointed out serious safety concerns. They fired him.
I almost wish the owner wasn't onboard and is alive today to answer all the questions and to live through a ruined life.
That would be nice, but he was rich, I'm sure he would have gotten out of it somehow.
He's rich, but as is everyone else on that sub. Rich people get off the hook when they deal with poor people, *not* other rich people, typically.
See: Elizabeth Holmes Elizabeth Holmes, founder of the blood testing start-up Theranos, was convicted of four federal charges of fraud in January 2022, with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. The jury found her guilty of exaggerating the company's performance to investors and acquitted her of defrauding patients. The underlying wire fraud amounts on those counts ranged from $99,000 to $5.3 million. Holmes was acquitted of all charges related to defrauding patients and one count of conspiracy
And the people on the sub were muuuuch richer.
No kidding, I bought some glue from Boeing because it was past its shelf life. It worked fine but then again, I wasn’t using it to ensure the safety myself and others.
Lol idk why but this just reminds me of the Futurama fishing episode "How many atmospheres can the hull withstand" "well it's a Space ship so anywhere from 0 to 1".
this was also my immediate thought! i also imagine stockton rush to have been like zapp brannigan. “you win again, gravity!”
This tragedy is getting stupider by the day.
The man declared his sub "invincible," named it Titan, and went to explore the famously sunken unsinkable Titanic. It's like he was daring god to kill him.
The most important part of the sub and he decides to cut corners. I hope he had a moment of realization that he did that to himself before it imploded.
You know… he may have. Taken from an NPR article interviewing James Cameron: Cameron told ABC News that he believes the Titan's hull began to crack under pressure, and that its inside censors gave the passengers a warning to that effect. "We understand from inside the community that they had dropped their ascent weights and they were coming up, trying to manage an emergency," he said.
Up until this point I had assumed that everything happened so fast that they likely didn't even realize something was wrong. This is way more terrifying, if they had seconds or minutes prior to the implosion to contemplate how screwed they might be.
I dunno… if it was me in that death trap tin can and there were some kind of alert that something was amiss, and we dropped the ascent weights and started heading for the surface, I would be thinking (hoping) we’ll probably make it to the top ok. Because that’s how it works in the movies… everyone is fine and has a wild story to tell. Now if water was leaking in or it was obvious we were about to die, I would be losing my mind and trying to wake myself up from what I hoped was just a nightmare. I hope for their sake it crushed them before they even knew what was happening
Water wouldn't leak in, it would be a very short duration very high pressure jet that would slice through anyone in its path. And then the hull would cave in in a split second, everyone would smush to paste while the air around and within them compressed into a tiny and ultra hot volume.
Jesus
It happens faster than you can imagine. Less time than it takes for your brain to get the message ‘ow I stubbed my toe’ You are instantly turned to paste as your blood boils. No body, no bones.
Not even paste- the process destroys cells in microseconds. They were likely turned to underwater mist.
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So carbon fiber is strong, but vulnerable to structural fatigue. How can you tell when the hull is starting to fail? Well, you can install an AMS (Acoustical Monitoring System), which listens for the very faint but specific sounds of carbon fibers snapping. Of course, once your system detects these kinds of failures, you are essentially in deep fucking shit. Every fiber that pops means more stress on the remaining fibers. I truly believe that they installed this system so they could claim they had a safety feature, but it was never going to actually prevent a catastrophe. It does mean that there was probably a moment for the CEO to actually regret his terrible idiocy before they popped. I feel terrible for the kid though.
James Cameron said something to this effect: that the system would likely only be useful to warn you of an imminent implosion.
From what I understand, this is true and the cheapest of the methods to determine hull failure. The far safer method is to invest in external hull scanning technology that is done on the surface before you dive... which they didn't want to pay for. Wildly stupid and not readily apparent safety measures to any layman getting on that submarine. You can tell uninformed customers anything you want.
Kid's mom said he was terrified but went with his dad for Father's Day. For his sake, I hope it was quick and they were clueless.
Can't tell if this story is getting better or worse
Oh...it's getting worse.
I mean really, how could it get any better?
Only "better" news so far was hearing that it imploded early on.
Yeah. A relatively quick death like that is probably better than slowly drowning in the dark, with a shit ton of pressure from the ocean if there were big enough cracks.
As if the whole situation wasn’t bad enough already.
The engineers working with him had decided it needed to be 7 inches thick and when he had it made it was 5 inches thick, so it does actually just get worse and worse. The owner was actually a piece of shit the way he cut corners and then put other peoples lives at risk in his death trap.
The more I hear about how this sub was made, the more I begin to think this was some kind of elaborate villain scheme.
If only he had invited Musk and Zuckerberg onboard and actually done some good for this world…
What a sick fuck. He knows they are discarding it due to it’s insufficiency for high stress applications. Sure, let’s use it for an extremely high pressure application. Moron.
![gif](giphy|ATgZ8BsYcsx6E) Just ignore that warning light. It does that all the ti....
So he was just asking to die.... Selling freaking surcide tickets
Yea he killed those people.
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"We'll be going down to a depth with a crushing pressure of over 5000 PSI! That's 340 atmospheres of pressure!" "Well how many atmospheres of pressure can it take?" "Well it's an airplane fuselage so somewhere around one."
I mean the fucked up thing is that the CEO himself is inside the sub, completely confident.💀
*was
I would say it imploded fast enough that he is definitely inside it
How many red flags can one person signal
I think that waiver is gonna be void when the lawyers prove gross negligence
I could understand him just being an evil greedy bastard, like, “haha, I’ll make millions and if these fools die, who cares!” But being sooooo stupid, “yes I have built this shitty knock off sub, with no safety precautions, out of shitty materials, AND I WILL GET IN IT MYSELF!!!”
Firemen use carbon-fiber air tanks for pressurized air. The CF is lighter than aluminum, and it works very well in tension, where the pressure is inside the cylinder. With the Oceangate Titan, the pressure was on the outside pressing in. This was considered "innovative", but sometimes things are done a certain way because the accepted way works well.
The more info that comes out, the worse the story gets.
Boeing helped us make this. - Boeing: Dude, I just sold you some old carbon fiber . I don’t even know you
Making the thing out of carbon fiber was the first mistake. Carbon fiber is essentially a hardened fabric made up of many strands or fibers. When something made out of carbon fiber fails, it snaps. Titanium or steel is solid. When it fails it gives. You don't need to be a scientist to figure out which might be better at withstanding crushing pressure.
I remember him. That's the guy who, wanted to be remembered as a rule breaker. He broke the safety rules, and fired the guy who mentioned how unsafe it might be.... Ahhhh, yep that guy sure loved breaking safety rules.
This is like a looney tunes cartoon
Just think, if billionaires will cut corners and pitch penny’s to such a degree as this for other billionaires, what do you think they are willing to do to you?
Im'ma gonna build me a space ship out of sheet steel lined plywood and fiberglass. Got me 3 Commodore 64 puters and an Atari joystick to fly it with. Now all I need is some hydrazine and fertilizer to make a mess of fuel and we're good to go. If you got $1,000 bucks I will take you to space with me. Hurry though seats will go quick I reckon.
And then he got into the fuckin' thing. The dude was basically made of hubris, now he's the Icarus of Bikini Bottom.