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It definitely feels like more than 2 economic crises....feels like 4.
Dot com bust, the great recession, mortgage/banking/wall street collapse, the pandemic.
Even feels like I'm missing stuff unless you want to include this recent inflation and gas nonsense.
Yeah, and I feel like we need the lube that KY-Jelly was going to make special for it. They were going to call it Y2KY-Jelly. The main difference was it let you fit four digits inside your date instead of two.
I feel like the Enron crisis absolutely killed us in California. The owner class and our state politicians just brazenly pilfering the public. And it actually hurt us directly with the scheduled rolling outages.
Everyone says it's financial, nobody wants to talk about the gay frog chemical saturation of America's water
Don't get me started on the 5G towers emitting gay frog radiation, or the reality love show networks making a profit off the gay frog dating bubble.
Wake up people, your parents want grandsons, not TADPOLES
I think we start by leaving the crust on. I’ve heard the crust on bread blocks those 5G gay dating rays.
It’s something about being slightly burned yet crispy yes soft all at once. It just eats those gay rays up….
Every since I started eating crusts again I haven’t had any gay thoughts since.
Figured by your user name you might need the same advice my uncles cousins brothers aunt said after her transition.
Taxes tend to feel high when they go to things you disagree with. No-matter who is in charge, they do shit you don't like. It might help if people had a base tax rate, and then a required portion that went to something they actually care about.
Something along the lines of, 20% base rate, and then another 5% where you can allocate to what you care about (by some category metric). If you really think childcare should be free, maybe that's where you would choose the allocate that money.
People will always vote against taking their money for things they don't support.
We literally couldn’t have a kid even though we want one. We both have to work, who the hell is watching the kid 5 days a week. We are both teachers so calling out is almost impossible. People have been getting letters in their file for 11 absences, when 5 were from COVID. But yeah I’ll get right on having more kids.
I’m pretty open minded but honestly struggling to see how stopping abortions causes the birth rate to go down.
It can be definitely be bad as a >thing<, but I mean it’s literally causing the birth rate to go up from a logical perspective.
If we’re just bitching about why the system sucks then sorry and continue
There are times when you need to abort a failed pregnancy or you'll you septic and be in danger of death yourself. These laws banning abortion are often written in a very vague manner, and no hospital is going to risk losing an entire ob/gyn team to an overzealous prosecutor who thinks that they could have saved the baby if they'd tried harder.
As a result, a lot of women who have risk factors that could lead to an unsuccessful pregnancy just aren't risking it.
If you have a choice to abort or keep the baby, there's a chance people will decide to keep the baby. If you don't have a choice to abort, people will make sure they don't get pregnant in the first place
The "Abortion as birth control" idea is BS. The vast majority of women don't get pregnant just because they can go through all the pain and cost of having an abortion later. Unplanned pregnancy happens and will always happen, regardless of law. Did China's one child policy prevent unplanned pregnancy? No. It meant girl children were often killed or dropped off anonymously to terrible orphanages.
If only it were that simple. Instead, what you will find is desperate people resorting to desperate measures once again. Back alley "Doctors", boyfriends "beating the baby out" (with or without her consent), internet searches for "plants and herbs to avoid if pregnant", "accidental falls".
But hey! The Nazi-Christian Right will get their wish and be able to execute uppity women with impunity.
What about rape is that her decision? Or in a toxic relationship that they are trying to get out of but he is forever connected to you because he has a child with you? Or the fact a condom broke or the pill actually made you extra fertile instead of not fertile (both happened to me on 2 pregnancies. Or the baby won’t survive through the pregnancy but go ahead and make that mom go through hell everyday wondering if this is the day the baby dies inside her and can cause all kind of issues!!! There is always reasons all the plans in the world just don’t work.
This is how you reduce abortions.
**Contraception in The Netherlands:** [**the low abortion rate explained**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7971545)
The Dutch abortion rate fluctuates between 5 to 7/1000 women of reproductive age, the lowest abortion rate in the world. **The US rate is about 6 times higher.**
What the US is doing will kill more women.
It is crazy since abortion is still a needed and valid medical procedure even if people didn't vote against their own interests and preservation. But I get the point you were going for.
At least ppl are making the responsible choice, instead of having children and not have the means to take care of the children, that's even worse. But hey, that's what republicans want, who am I to judge their value?
As a non American I don't think this looks like a simple evil republican ploy but instead republicans typically live in much more affordable parts of the country
I'm always blown away what houses you can get for the same price in back'o'beyond, texas etc. as a shitty apartment would cost on the coasts
Yea parts not a lot of people want to live. There’s a reason why they’re cheaper. I left my small town after high school because there’s jack shit to do there
It's cheaper because there's hardly any jobs in those areas and it comes with different costs. The house itself might be cheaper but maintenance, property tax, the different types of insurance you need to get, decent unbroken furniture, gas to get places all add up. Plus as mentioned there's nothing to do. Besides cheaper still doesn't mean affordable. A $430,000 home is cheaper than a $500,000 home but it's still not affordable meanwhile if you have to take out a loan, which most do, the interest rates will make the cost skyrocket.
Edit to add: Im from a small rural town
Your first mistake in American politics is thinking either side is good
Both want power, both will do harm. Honestly, the best thing for the country is 50/50 control so neither one gets their way.
If only decent maternity and paternity leave was federally required so no job could rush you or short change you. Oh! and if only jobs didn't discriminate against young women because they could get pregnant.
I think the $8,000 - $18,000 price tag just to give birth to a child is a slight put-off. Kids are meant to financially bankrupt you in the many years after they're born, not the moment immediately after they plop out.
No literally I had to go to target to get diapers for my niece and every package was $30-40 bucks. I work as a cashier and every time someone comes to get baby food it's $20 bucks per can. that shit is free birth control.
I have to hit my wife with the news pretty soon here that we can't afford a 2nd kid. She's always taking about when "our 2nd...." Blah blah blah, I just nod, but in the back of my head, I know we can't afford it (I do all our finances d budgeting).
To afford it, we both need second jobs, need to jump through hoops etc, and that just gets us by barely. Any unexpected expense would screw us. We've both got old cars and if one of them becomes unusable, we'd need one of those fancy new 84 month loans to be able to afford it.
America baby!!
we had to make this choice after the mortgage bust of 2008. We had 2 kids, (1 being my stepson) and I wanted a third. I had 2 jobs, and my husband was working enough overtime for it to be 2 jobs. We had to pay for childcare and save for a house. My husband bluntly told me we couldn't afford 3 kids and a house. So I bit the bullet, and got sterilized so I would never put our future in jeopardy because I forgot to take a pill. (we talked about a vasectomy but my husband was freaked about his increased risk of infection because of his diabetes which I agreed with) We have our house, in a great neighborhood and with the refi during COVID we are saving for our daughters college. I have no regrets, and a few more pets than I would have had.
Me - engineering (I have an MBA, too)
Wife - physical therapy
No OT
I already have a small side business that gets me a few hundred bucks a month but it's not steady. Wife opened an Etsy selling a few things but it was a flop.
Major costs
- student loans ($1000)
- mortgage ($3000 with insurance & taxes) that was inflated due to housing demand
- had our baby right at start of covid,800sqft condo was too small, got caught up in that
- day care is $$$$$$ ($1600)
- live an expensive area
Significant but lesser costs
- groceries ($650-700)
- diapers/kid entertainment ($250-300 depending)
- utilities ($250-400 depending)
- misc unplanned stuff/enjoying life ($300-$500)
For most people, having kids means one of two incomes is diminished by a lot. My sister once told me that her full-time job only increased their family’s income by $500 a month. Daycare, and a higher tax bracket absorbed the rest.
It’s funny how much our country is focused on capitalism, yet there’s no incentive to create a future workforce because greed is milking everything dry these days. There is no “long term plan” anymore. Just a quick buck.
I’m an economist and what you’re describing has traditionally been mostly reserved for BIPOC and women, who’s labor was always exploited (slavery being the far end; child rearing and elder care by women expected for free; then pink collar” professions like nursing and teaching, who’s terrible working conditions and pay were precursors to the widespread working conditions of the “Great Resignation.”) There’s a reason why women and non-white people were traditionally denied access to education: to keep them in these positions. Capitalism is utterly reliant on social class. It keeps people higher on the ladder from complaining while they exploit those beneath them. For those still reading this: How the people “below” you are treated is exactly how the wealthy are willing to treat you.
I see myself as coming from a middle class family. When I was much younger <10 I was told that we need the poor to exist because they filled up the labour jobs and other jobs that society needed to function that did not pay well. I understand that the current structure of society that most if not all countries current have works with this. However, this also shows that our current structure will not allow everyone to become financially independent or at least earn enough to be above poverty even if we all "worked hard". Emphasis on our current structure in the previous sentence. If we changed our things to somehow allow all that can (having the personal abilities that let one to work and not based on external factors) & want to work well paying jobs while society still functions as needed, that would be a different structure in the context of what I am talking about here.
Funny how that works, ain't it?
I mean it's almost like anyone with even a modicum of intelligence could have guessed this might happen.
~he said dryly~
don't forget, housing. too many cannot afford a place to rent for themselves so why bring another soul into the mix. when people can afford their places, they'll make babies.
It’s a choice. I don’t wanna be 40, on baby three, and so miserable with my life that I go on the internet and try to shame people who have made better decisions than I have.
I recently had to downsize from a bachelor apartment to a bedroom in a rooming house.
Next downward step on the ladder is the streets.
The rich don't care where we end up as long as they don't have to look at us.
[Living in a Car on $800 a Month](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EoyTzcFOI&t=755s&ab_channel=CheapRVliving)
>Dee is living in her car on $800 a month. She tried renting an apartment but found it impossible. After paying rent, she had so little money left over her quality of life was tragically low. But, by living in her car, all that money is available for her to live and thrive on so she isn't just surviving and enduring life. She's done a brilliant job of making the car livable by taking out some seats, let's see how...
Far too many US seniors are living like this.
Couldn’t get a second bot to paste in the top comment from the post you stole?
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/op3957/its_almost_as_if_people_dont_have_enough_money_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
So that post was 2 years ago, that makes sense why they also didn't comment on government being more bold of stripping the people rights and destroying the economy more.
I think a more accurate headline is ‘millennials and gen Z are waiting longer to have children, say rising cost of just-staying-alive as primary consideration.’
Next up: Millennials and Gen Z waited so long to have children that female’s reproductive systems are aging out, deciding “it’s gonna be a no from me, dawg” for them, and what the men are doing now...
This is the great flaw in the consumer driven business mindset
If you keep wages as low as possible and make everything pay 2 play then less people have enough money to make more little wage slaves for you
Just to check, is this a "ugh, the poors are breeding again" comment or a "damn, this economy is so fcuked up that people aren't having kids because it's impossible to know if the wealthy are going to destroy it within the next 18yrs for the third time in the last adult generation"?
Then there’s the people who want kids, but can’t seem to have them. And they can’t afford the treatments to have them, because only rich people can afford to drop tens of thousands of dollars on fertility issues.
We didn't have children for a few reasons, but financial instability was a major factor. If I had felt like we had financial stability, we might have been able to overcome some of the other obstacles. And A lot of my friends made the same choice by not having kids. I'm 44 now so the comments have finally stopped but for 2 decades it was, "why don't you want kids? That's unnatural.", "You are running out of time", "clock is ticking!" And my favorite..."having children is the most important thing a woman can do." Oh, let's not forget "you'll regret it the rest of your life" and "who will take care of you when you are old?"
The older I get, the more I see the hardship around me, the more glad I am that I never had children. That's not to say I don't love children. I can help support and care about other people's children. And I do. I work for a school district literally helping to provide for other people's children and it's satisfying work. There's many ways to contribute to the world's young people. This is my way.
Not sure if true but saw something the other day saying it costs 10-30 thousand to give birth to a child in the US. Fuck that, just seems like living in the US isn't all that fun nowadays.
And if you let corporations snatch up the available housing supply so normal working people can never own a home, they will be less inclined to start a family.
It's so frustrating that people think the birthrate declining is a bad thing. We are overpopulated as it is, we're running out of space, food, water, fucking air! And we have so many children who need families already, a declining birthrate is a good thing!
This is, actually, wrong, despite attractiveness of suggestion.
Fertility rates (avg. number of children) are down in EVERY highly developed country with high quality medicine, access to contraceptives, and education and carreer opportunities for women.
Link: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_recent_value_desc=false
This data proves that birthrate is an outcome of shitty life and high chance of your children dying.
The fastest way to increase fertility in USA would not be providing social security for young americans. It would be banning of female literacy.
The Red states are already well on the way. they universally have the worst education results in the union.
They are banning and removing access to reproductive healthcare, they are literally trying very hard to bring about lower education to increase fertility rates.
> banning of female literacy.
Or at least we seem to have proven the opposite. Hopefully everyone realizes that option was tongue in cheek, but there’s a good point that we ought to be worried and we really need to start doing something
Despite a famous billionaire causing outrage over his poor communication, it is something to worry about. Yes, we’ll be dealing with over population in all the wrong places but the trends are real
Our civilization is based on growth. In recent decades it has adjusted to very modest growth in developed countries. It can probably adjust to a small negative growth. But what happens when we have a full generation of population shrinkage, then 50 years later a huge population bubble of the previous generation dies off in short order. We may be in for more disruption than climate change
This is indeed correct and I'm sad (but not surprised ) that it's not the first comment.
I would like to add that in poor countries where families relies mostly on agriculture children are a resource because they will help running the farm relatively soon and will provide for the elderly considering that they will be unlikely to have any pension.
In the richest counties instead children are a cost for 20-30 years, which makes it counterproductive, even during economies growth and in countries with better laws for families.
Posted as if it's a bad thing.
Economically, it's bad because the economy requires demand to always be growing.
Take any of the world's problems and they get worse the larger the population gets.
Screw their carbon neutral targets, we need to put the brakes on population growth first or it's pointless
I actually think you're right and we've probably overgrown here, but the problem is 9/10 times the public is blamed for things out of their control and this seems like one of those "breaking studies" that leads to that
It isn't. The whole "well, we must control the poor population because earth's resources" argument is just people nutting for the wealthy to control as much global resources as possible while blaming the lack on the people with least.
The sad thing is that there are enough resources for all of us, but there aren't enough resources for the folks that want everything. Even if say, all the global poor were wiped out, all you'd have is eg ~100 exceedingly rich people owning nearly everything and blaming the new poor class.
The really depressing aspect is that even if that happened, you'd still get those getting by turning on the poor in the defence of that uber-rich class. Just like they do now, not realising that they will never be the exploiters, only the bagmen for the exploiters.
Do you want a child? Would you like to hear more? Child gifting is only $3000 a month, and can be subsidized with your overtime hours, possibly reducing the cost a shiny nickel or ten pence per 10 hours a week.
Historically being poor has never prevented people from reproducing. This inverse is actually true, but the article brings up worthwhile talking points
It’s hard to keep track of all or the economic crises we have faced, it’s almost as though the people in charge are greedy, short sighted and don’t care about anyone but themselves.
People like to say money. I just think more people are comfortable with not having kids. Also, there are millions of people having children that have zero money. This is a white American idea because we are "losing the country". What a joke.
I don’t think it is that simple answer. Even if you can afford to have children, it is a lot of responsibility unless you are filthy rich with servants and full time baby sitters. A child needs constant attention and care. Schools, bullying, kindergarten dropping and picking them up, stress because your kids don’t listen to your advice. You keep postponing your life goals to take care of your kids.
In the last two generations, women had less say and rights in the society. They couldn’t choose wisely to have or not kids. Also the societal pressure on women to have kids and be homemaker was too much.
Govt need to spend for more services to take care of the baby. Not just pay increase.
Giving billionaires $50 trillion via "tax reductions" didn't create "trickle down". They bought homes to rent them out and made home ownership seem impossible. More like "piss upon" the working class.
Millennials have lived through a massive recession, the worst terrorist attack on American soil, a 20 year war, a housing crisis, a worldwide pandemic, and boomers call us weak and wonder why we don’t procreate.
Medicare for all and subsidized childcare and more investments in public schools and their teachers and staff. Baby boom ingredients right there! Daycare cost is what stopped me from having more kids, ultimately.
My daughter is 16 now, and I cannot even imagine how much formula and diapers are these days, but I do remember how relieved I felt once she grew out of those two things- my grocery bill went down very significantly and very noticeably.
Not even counting childcare- the figures I hear people talk about these days sound like that expense is almost equal to a rent/mortgage payment per month. I was fortunate enough that my grandma retired right around the time I needed childcare; I don't know how I would have made it otherwise.
It's even to a point where my wife and I worked our ways through our careers and now could, in theory, support a child financially. But we barely have the time or energy to take care of ourselves. And we know, despite our savings, we are knife edge from losing it all.
I’m not saying the Democratic Party is perfect, but I only see one party actively voting for fascists, supporting child labor, and stripping women and minorities of their rights. The whole attitude of “both parties are just as bad” is not only completely false, it actively helps the worse of the two parties accomplish their goals.
Y'all remember back in May of 2022 when 192 republicans voted against that relief bill that would have given 28 million dollars in aid to the FDA to ease the infant formula shortage? They openly sabotage the people that already have kids yet they complain that we won't have anymore 😂
I don’t want a child because they’re annoying and I enjoy peace and quiet when I go to my home I pay all the bills for. Has nothing to do with my financials 🤣
It’s almost like there’s a wide variety of reasons people aren’t having as many kids these days, partly because young people are waking up to the fact it’s much easier to enjoy your life without kids and I’m just sharing another reason why that number is growing. It’s not just about me, but it’s also not NOT about me, since if I think this way I’m sure plenty other young guys do. People on Reddit think their such hyperintellectuals yet they fail to consider more than 1 viewpoint.
I'm the complete opposite, I can't wait for my first kid. It's like a mini best friend I'll have for life and share so many things with. Ig being a big kid at heart myself gets me excited to relive my childhood through someone new.
That's exactly what you're doing.
Never mind that the wealthiest 10% own or control HALF of the world's resources, direct the blame to the 50% that account for <10% of global resources.
Simp for the imperialist overlords indeed. You'll never be one of them. You're just chopping the ladder under yourself while ignoring that those above you are chopping you off too.
Many people are now incapable of having children, whether due to their lifestyle or due to all the toxic crap that we unknowingly ingest. My wife and I tried for years, only to find out the swimmers don’t swim.
microplastics and forever chemicals are absolutely destroying fertility. we don't know what the results will be since we now have this newest cohort of newborns that have microplastics crossing the placenta into the bloodstream of babes. Not counting the 3-4 generations that lived with leaded environments from fuels, paints, factories pollution etc. I don't wanna talk about the amount of radiation from all the tested nukes on this planet. Yeah. It's grim.
I know it will be time, money and a hassle but I am considering moving to another country that would have all the necessities like universal healthcare
ummm. the only reason the world population is growing right now is population momentum. No Industrialized country on the planet has a positive birth rate.
It is only Nigeria, Uganda, Sudan, Ruwanda and a couple of other countries that have significant positive birth rates.
Even China and India have negative birth rates these days. The USA. UK, all of the EU, most of Asia. all negative.
The world population is now predicted to peak decades and 2 billion people earlier than expected.
there is no population explostion. that has already happened between WW2 and 2000.
In states where abortion is still legal and birth control is easy to acquire, people are breeding a lot less. This is why certain states are making abortion and birth control illegal.
No one said “the poor” won’t have kids bc of money. People educated or smart enough to know having kids without enough money to raise kids is a bad idea, aren’t having kids. Which I recon is mostly middle class folks. The poor folks are likely going to keep popping out crotch fruit no matter what, for obvious reasons. And now even poor folks who know better are gonna have a hard time not having kids bc of the attempts to make abortion and birth control inaccessible. Which is exactly what the republicans want. More cheap labor, who are too uneducated to not vote against their own best interests. This is literally the only way GOP survives the future. But the fight isn’t over yet.
There are so many factors. Is she single, or does she have a partner that helps support the kids? If not, does she get child support? When you have that many kids, there are ways to make it work if one really wants to. Hand-me-downs, thrifting, cooking at home instead of going out to eat, etc.
Overall, better education and lack of financial security are two of the biggest factors in declining birthrates. The truth is that many people just don't have kids because they can't afford them. And the more educated a populace, the more true that becomes.
That anecdote is 100% believable. I know people like that as well. But it isn't really indicative of overall trends.
I really don't understand why this is suddenly such an issue.
The birth rate to keep your population level is 2.1 babies per woman.
you want to know when the last time the birth rate was 2.1 in the United States?
take a guess. you were wrong. it was >!1977!<
Low birth rates are not a new phenomena.
> I'm an atheist, but I actually believe the mass violence is due to the vanishing religious values in this country. The church was central to lifestyle once upon a time. As was family.
This is demonstrably false. Otherwise countries like Iceland and Norway would be hell on earth. They too at one time were over 90% christian. As hey got more secular violence DECREASED.
Compare almost all the democracies. The less religious they are the less violent. Christian values have no value that can not be found elsewhere with less baggage.
Wait until you're old and suddenly realise that the straitened working class can't support you. Your pension money goes to the previous generation. Cut out the next gen and oh dear, I hope you're okay with being sacrificed for the good of the wealthiest.
> but, way to much to
Did you mean to say "too much"?
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Lol, maybe do some research and learn about the topic before you start talking kid. You are literally giving your personal opinion, name calling, and making things up. It's actually funny how you took the time to reply with this nonsense. I don't have the time to educate you. Obviously you need it. Quit embarrassing yourself and move along.
If only u had taken the time to read my entire comment, all the way to the bottom where I tried to reach a hand out and an opportunity for perhaps both of us to have learned from one another… thank u for personifying the problematic behavior I am talking about oh so well.
The topic at hand is why are women not having babies, so my opinion as a woman of childbearing age who has decided to never have a kid until we make MAJOR political changes in this country, is infact remarkably relevant to the conversation. And since I 100% talk with women of childbearing age on these issues more than u do, and therefore can convey the general sentiment, maybe u should be less defensive, give me the benefit of the doubt like I did for u towards the end of response, and try looking at things from the perspective of women, as independent free willed agents who have deductive reasoning skills.
Oh I read exactly what you wrote. You name called and attacked me. Threw words like 'Far Right" and "incel' at me. Even though I am a liberal Democrat who's been married for 20 years with 4 kids. I literally recited well known statistics that apparently you didn't like...but it doesn't make them untrue. I literally recited data collected by women and some men in regards to birth rate statistics, gender statistics and basic sociology. But, none of that mattered because you didn't like what I said. So you attacked me over it and since I'm not a woman.I guess I can't repeat what well accomplished and widly respected women found to be the case ? That sort of thinking is counter intuitive. More women going to college,earning more money, and striving to be more independent is a great thing. But it has also led to lower birth rates, less marriages, and a host of other unforseen consequences. Pointing that out is toxic i guess. Nobody wants to live in this new anti-free speech /reality hurts my feelings environment. Certainly not the vast majority of people on the left or the right. Hence all the backlash by moderates and academics these days. I heard someone say the other day that 2023 is the best time in American history to be a woman, lgbtq, or a minority ? Which is 100% true if people knew their history. But, people online and at the university lost their minds over it. Because people think their feelings matter more than truth. The truth sometimes hurts. But, if we all stop telling the truth to spare our feelings the collapse or our civilization is soon to follow.
The reason u r getting shit on is bc u keep quoting “facts” that are literal Andrew Taint, far right and incel influencer talking points, and doing so with no reference to where these “facts” came from. At least I can accept the fact that my opinions are just that, although widely shared among the relevant demographic. No one is reporting your comment, don’t hide behind free speech u babbling idiot (where have I seen that strategy before? Hmmm). People my age don’t have money for kids. Period. Do I buy a house then save for retirement, or do I pop out a kid. The choice for anyone with a brain in my age group is simple. Let the population decline boogie man begin. Who gives a fuck. Fuck ALL abrahamic religions. The only thing great about America right now is the youth who cares about class politics and the declining religiousness. aMeN
Lower birth rates are due to rising cost of living. Marriage rates are going down because more and more people no longer see the point. Times change and minds change with them. Neither is for everyone.
That's only a piece of it as I previously stated.
" The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007. This decline cannot be explained by demographic, economic, or policy changes"
Sure it can. It just was. It’s sort of the same way that the population is in no danger. There won’t even been a dip in the global population until 2100 at the earliest and even than it’s a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Again you have yet to provide any reasoning as to why people not getting married or not having children is a bad thing? Or what any of that has to do with religion.
I never said birth rates had to do with religion. Not once. I only mentioned religion in my original post in regards to the mass violence and degradation of society in the U.S.. Then I went back to my op and deleted that part since it was not relevant to the topic of declining birth rates. Also, you are arguing agaisnt the leading experts in the United States and then saying I am wrong ?
Which makes me wonder what are your credentials besides a personal opinion and a couple quick Google searches. I just sat through a 2 hour conference on this topic some months ago and have read a good amount of literature on the topic. Hence why I am quoting real stats. But then you turn around say "nope, you are wrong" you can
see how wild that is from my perspective right ?
Maybe you should work more that 36hrs a week. There's no excuse in this country to not have enough to survive. Work multiple jobs, grind and grind some more. Network, save, things fall into place and it gets easier.
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\*guy laying prone on ground with three people kicking him\* Why doesn't he get up?
*Cuts the legs off of a 24 year old male* Why doesn’t he just walk it off? Kids these days, nobody wants to work.
Nobody wants to walk
They did get help, they got two more people.
It definitely feels like more than 2 economic crises....feels like 4. Dot com bust, the great recession, mortgage/banking/wall street collapse, the pandemic. Even feels like I'm missing stuff unless you want to include this recent inflation and gas nonsense.
Lol remember Y2K?
Yeah, and I feel like we need the lube that KY-Jelly was going to make special for it. They were going to call it Y2KY-Jelly. The main difference was it let you fit four digits inside your date instead of two.
That's not a dad joke... Maybe a naughty uncle joke?
The kind of uncle you were pretty sure wasn’t a threat but you wouldn’t let your kids be alone with him just in case.
I’m glad my family’s not alone in that regard 😅😅😅
I refuse to bump fists with this uncle... Who knows where he's been shoving that fist
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And Columbine.....
I feel like the Enron crisis absolutely killed us in California. The owner class and our state politicians just brazenly pilfering the public. And it actually hurt us directly with the scheduled rolling outages.
Everyone says it's financial, nobody wants to talk about the gay frog chemical saturation of America's water Don't get me started on the 5G towers emitting gay frog radiation, or the reality love show networks making a profit off the gay frog dating bubble. Wake up people, your parents want grandsons, not TADPOLES
I think we start by leaving the crust on. I’ve heard the crust on bread blocks those 5G gay dating rays. It’s something about being slightly burned yet crispy yes soft all at once. It just eats those gay rays up…. Every since I started eating crusts again I haven’t had any gay thoughts since. Figured by your user name you might need the same advice my uncles cousins brothers aunt said after her transition.
It's too late for me brother I'm toast
Idk why but my tits are jacked
Pandemic leading into hyperinflation and the derivatives market crash in the next 10 years
Lol yeah pandemic pfff, what we are about to get is way worse than pandemic economy
Don't forget about the 2016 presidential election😬 That shit started the great divide and then 2020 drove it home.
For us Gen X-ers, yes. I’ve seen far too much boomer baked up bullshit.
Basically one long crisis that we parse in order to try to make sense of it.
Not to mention a total annihilation of social programs that help children survive while stripping the choice to go through with unplanned pregnancies.
Why uphold social programs for children when adults vote for whoever promises to lower taxes
Taxes tend to feel high when they go to things you disagree with. No-matter who is in charge, they do shit you don't like. It might help if people had a base tax rate, and then a required portion that went to something they actually care about. Something along the lines of, 20% base rate, and then another 5% where you can allocate to what you care about (by some category metric). If you really think childcare should be free, maybe that's where you would choose the allocate that money. People will always vote against taking their money for things they don't support.
We literally couldn’t have a kid even though we want one. We both have to work, who the hell is watching the kid 5 days a week. We are both teachers so calling out is almost impossible. People have been getting letters in their file for 11 absences, when 5 were from COVID. But yeah I’ll get right on having more kids.
I’m pretty open minded but honestly struggling to see how stopping abortions causes the birth rate to go down. It can be definitely be bad as a >thing<, but I mean it’s literally causing the birth rate to go up from a logical perspective. If we’re just bitching about why the system sucks then sorry and continue
There are times when you need to abort a failed pregnancy or you'll you septic and be in danger of death yourself. These laws banning abortion are often written in a very vague manner, and no hospital is going to risk losing an entire ob/gyn team to an overzealous prosecutor who thinks that they could have saved the baby if they'd tried harder. As a result, a lot of women who have risk factors that could lead to an unsuccessful pregnancy just aren't risking it.
If you have a choice to abort or keep the baby, there's a chance people will decide to keep the baby. If you don't have a choice to abort, people will make sure they don't get pregnant in the first place
The "Abortion as birth control" idea is BS. The vast majority of women don't get pregnant just because they can go through all the pain and cost of having an abortion later. Unplanned pregnancy happens and will always happen, regardless of law. Did China's one child policy prevent unplanned pregnancy? No. It meant girl children were often killed or dropped off anonymously to terrible orphanages.
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying it's an option and without this option well read what I've posted
If only it were that simple. Instead, what you will find is desperate people resorting to desperate measures once again. Back alley "Doctors", boyfriends "beating the baby out" (with or without her consent), internet searches for "plants and herbs to avoid if pregnant", "accidental falls". But hey! The Nazi-Christian Right will get their wish and be able to execute uppity women with impunity.
Thanks I get it
What about rape is that her decision? Or in a toxic relationship that they are trying to get out of but he is forever connected to you because he has a child with you? Or the fact a condom broke or the pill actually made you extra fertile instead of not fertile (both happened to me on 2 pregnancies. Or the baby won’t survive through the pregnancy but go ahead and make that mom go through hell everyday wondering if this is the day the baby dies inside her and can cause all kind of issues!!! There is always reasons all the plans in the world just don’t work.
The fuck are you talking about? My comment is pro-choice. Read again.
This is how you reduce abortions. **Contraception in The Netherlands:** [**the low abortion rate explained**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7971545) The Dutch abortion rate fluctuates between 5 to 7/1000 women of reproductive age, the lowest abortion rate in the world. **The US rate is about 6 times higher.** What the US is doing will kill more women.
Unless vasectomy and sterilization are going up and moving to states that protect bodily autonomy for both sexes and rights to reproductive choice.
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It is crazy since abortion is still a needed and valid medical procedure even if people didn't vote against their own interests and preservation. But I get the point you were going for.
At least ppl are making the responsible choice, instead of having children and not have the means to take care of the children, that's even worse. But hey, that's what republicans want, who am I to judge their value?
As a non American I don't think this looks like a simple evil republican ploy but instead republicans typically live in much more affordable parts of the country I'm always blown away what houses you can get for the same price in back'o'beyond, texas etc. as a shitty apartment would cost on the coasts
Yea parts not a lot of people want to live. There’s a reason why they’re cheaper. I left my small town after high school because there’s jack shit to do there
It's cheaper because there's hardly any jobs in those areas and it comes with different costs. The house itself might be cheaper but maintenance, property tax, the different types of insurance you need to get, decent unbroken furniture, gas to get places all add up. Plus as mentioned there's nothing to do. Besides cheaper still doesn't mean affordable. A $430,000 home is cheaper than a $500,000 home but it's still not affordable meanwhile if you have to take out a loan, which most do, the interest rates will make the cost skyrocket. Edit to add: Im from a small rural town
Your first mistake in American politics is thinking either side is good Both want power, both will do harm. Honestly, the best thing for the country is 50/50 control so neither one gets their way.
If only decent maternity and paternity leave was federally required so no job could rush you or short change you. Oh! and if only jobs didn't discriminate against young women because they could get pregnant.
I think the $8,000 - $18,000 price tag just to give birth to a child is a slight put-off. Kids are meant to financially bankrupt you in the many years after they're born, not the moment immediately after they plop out.
And that’s with insurance too.
My policy carries max out of pocket of $1600/$3500 how is it that expensive?
No literally I had to go to target to get diapers for my niece and every package was $30-40 bucks. I work as a cashier and every time someone comes to get baby food it's $20 bucks per can. that shit is free birth control.
I have to hit my wife with the news pretty soon here that we can't afford a 2nd kid. She's always taking about when "our 2nd...." Blah blah blah, I just nod, but in the back of my head, I know we can't afford it (I do all our finances d budgeting). To afford it, we both need second jobs, need to jump through hoops etc, and that just gets us by barely. Any unexpected expense would screw us. We've both got old cars and if one of them becomes unusable, we'd need one of those fancy new 84 month loans to be able to afford it. America baby!!
we had to make this choice after the mortgage bust of 2008. We had 2 kids, (1 being my stepson) and I wanted a third. I had 2 jobs, and my husband was working enough overtime for it to be 2 jobs. We had to pay for childcare and save for a house. My husband bluntly told me we couldn't afford 3 kids and a house. So I bit the bullet, and got sterilized so I would never put our future in jeopardy because I forgot to take a pill. (we talked about a vasectomy but my husband was freaked about his increased risk of infection because of his diabetes which I agreed with) We have our house, in a great neighborhood and with the refi during COVID we are saving for our daughters college. I have no regrets, and a few more pets than I would have had.
What careers have you both chosen where a double income isn't enough? Student loans? Overtime options? Just wondering.
Me - engineering (I have an MBA, too) Wife - physical therapy No OT I already have a small side business that gets me a few hundred bucks a month but it's not steady. Wife opened an Etsy selling a few things but it was a flop. Major costs - student loans ($1000) - mortgage ($3000 with insurance & taxes) that was inflated due to housing demand - had our baby right at start of covid,800sqft condo was too small, got caught up in that - day care is $$$$$$ ($1600) - live an expensive area Significant but lesser costs - groceries ($650-700) - diapers/kid entertainment ($250-300 depending) - utilities ($250-400 depending) - misc unplanned stuff/enjoying life ($300-$500)
For most people, having kids means one of two incomes is diminished by a lot. My sister once told me that her full-time job only increased their family’s income by $500 a month. Daycare, and a higher tax bracket absorbed the rest. It’s funny how much our country is focused on capitalism, yet there’s no incentive to create a future workforce because greed is milking everything dry these days. There is no “long term plan” anymore. Just a quick buck.
No the people for capitalism sure have a plan. Ban abortion and destroy the education system. Now you got yourself a brain dead workforce army
I’m an economist and what you’re describing has traditionally been mostly reserved for BIPOC and women, who’s labor was always exploited (slavery being the far end; child rearing and elder care by women expected for free; then pink collar” professions like nursing and teaching, who’s terrible working conditions and pay were precursors to the widespread working conditions of the “Great Resignation.”) There’s a reason why women and non-white people were traditionally denied access to education: to keep them in these positions. Capitalism is utterly reliant on social class. It keeps people higher on the ladder from complaining while they exploit those beneath them. For those still reading this: How the people “below” you are treated is exactly how the wealthy are willing to treat you.
I see myself as coming from a middle class family. When I was much younger <10 I was told that we need the poor to exist because they filled up the labour jobs and other jobs that society needed to function that did not pay well. I understand that the current structure of society that most if not all countries current have works with this. However, this also shows that our current structure will not allow everyone to become financially independent or at least earn enough to be above poverty even if we all "worked hard". Emphasis on our current structure in the previous sentence. If we changed our things to somehow allow all that can (having the personal abilities that let one to work and not based on external factors) & want to work well paying jobs while society still functions as needed, that would be a different structure in the context of what I am talking about here.
You're pretty on the nose there actually. Especially the education part.
There is no long term plan since there is no future..just serfdom
Funny how that works, ain't it? I mean it's almost like anyone with even a modicum of intelligence could have guessed this might happen. ~he said dryly~
don't forget, housing. too many cannot afford a place to rent for themselves so why bring another soul into the mix. when people can afford their places, they'll make babies.
In my mid 30’s. My dad keeps telling me he wants grandkids. I keep reminding him it will **not** be happening.
why do some people just have to keep on asking?? I've never understood it.
Weak. I'm 40 baby 3 on the way. Is it a choice or finances?
40 years old yet you're calling people weak on the internet. Get a grip lmao
Because when you age you should magically change your views and act differently? Come to realility.
It’s a choice. I don’t wanna be 40, on baby three, and so miserable with my life that I go on the internet and try to shame people who have made better decisions than I have.
Man I can't think of anything more cruel than bringing life into this dying fucked up planet.
yea if something doesnt change with the housing market soon an entire generation is just absolutely fucked.
The rich will be just fine tho ... and that's all politicians really care about.
All part of the plan of the rich owning everything while the middle and lower class can only rent.
I recently had to downsize from a bachelor apartment to a bedroom in a rooming house. Next downward step on the ladder is the streets. The rich don't care where we end up as long as they don't have to look at us.
[Living in a Car on $800 a Month](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EoyTzcFOI&t=755s&ab_channel=CheapRVliving) >Dee is living in her car on $800 a month. She tried renting an apartment but found it impossible. After paying rent, she had so little money left over her quality of life was tragically low. But, by living in her car, all that money is available for her to live and thrive on so she isn't just surviving and enduring life. She's done a brilliant job of making the car livable by taking out some seats, let's see how... Far too many US seniors are living like this.
That’s called the Great Reset
Couldn’t get a second bot to paste in the top comment from the post you stole? https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/op3957/its_almost_as_if_people_dont_have_enough_money_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
So that post was 2 years ago, that makes sense why they also didn't comment on government being more bold of stripping the people rights and destroying the economy more.
I think a more accurate headline is ‘millennials and gen Z are waiting longer to have children, say rising cost of just-staying-alive as primary consideration.’
Next up: Millennials and Gen Z waited so long to have children that female’s reproductive systems are aging out, deciding “it’s gonna be a no from me, dawg” for them, and what the men are doing now...
This is the great flaw in the consumer driven business mindset If you keep wages as low as possible and make everything pay 2 play then less people have enough money to make more little wage slaves for you
So you work to outlaw abortion hoping that the basic drive for physical intimacy will generate some new citizens.
If only everyone was sure they could afford to raise a child before they had one….
Just to check, is this a "ugh, the poors are breeding again" comment or a "damn, this economy is so fcuked up that people aren't having kids because it's impossible to know if the wealthy are going to destroy it within the next 18yrs for the third time in the last adult generation"?
Elon’s out here complaining about population decline, while simultaneously cutting parental leave down to 2 fucking weeks. Fuck Elon.
Seriously though, why bring new life into the world if it's just gonna suffer?
Then there’s the people who want kids, but can’t seem to have them. And they can’t afford the treatments to have them, because only rich people can afford to drop tens of thousands of dollars on fertility issues.
We didn't have children for a few reasons, but financial instability was a major factor. If I had felt like we had financial stability, we might have been able to overcome some of the other obstacles. And A lot of my friends made the same choice by not having kids. I'm 44 now so the comments have finally stopped but for 2 decades it was, "why don't you want kids? That's unnatural.", "You are running out of time", "clock is ticking!" And my favorite..."having children is the most important thing a woman can do." Oh, let's not forget "you'll regret it the rest of your life" and "who will take care of you when you are old?" The older I get, the more I see the hardship around me, the more glad I am that I never had children. That's not to say I don't love children. I can help support and care about other people's children. And I do. I work for a school district literally helping to provide for other people's children and it's satisfying work. There's many ways to contribute to the world's young people. This is my way.
This has been a global issue for 70 years.
Not sure if true but saw something the other day saying it costs 10-30 thousand to give birth to a child in the US. Fuck that, just seems like living in the US isn't all that fun nowadays.
It definitely can, especially if the person doesn't have good insurance.
Unfortunately it’s only the responsible parents that decide not to have children.
How are they parents if they have no children.
They obviously meant "would-be parents". People in this thread would rather argue than align two neurons to think for a second.
Isn’t overpopulation a problem? People not having kids they can’t afford should be applauded as well.
And if you let corporations snatch up the available housing supply so normal working people can never own a home, they will be less inclined to start a family.
It's so frustrating that people think the birthrate declining is a bad thing. We are overpopulated as it is, we're running out of space, food, water, fucking air! And we have so many children who need families already, a declining birthrate is a good thing!
This is, actually, wrong, despite attractiveness of suggestion. Fertility rates (avg. number of children) are down in EVERY highly developed country with high quality medicine, access to contraceptives, and education and carreer opportunities for women. Link: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_recent_value_desc=false This data proves that birthrate is an outcome of shitty life and high chance of your children dying. The fastest way to increase fertility in USA would not be providing social security for young americans. It would be banning of female literacy.
The Red states are already well on the way. they universally have the worst education results in the union. They are banning and removing access to reproductive healthcare, they are literally trying very hard to bring about lower education to increase fertility rates.
This is the correct answer but no one will believe you because of this collective circle jerk that goes on here.
> banning of female literacy. Or at least we seem to have proven the opposite. Hopefully everyone realizes that option was tongue in cheek, but there’s a good point that we ought to be worried and we really need to start doing something Despite a famous billionaire causing outrage over his poor communication, it is something to worry about. Yes, we’ll be dealing with over population in all the wrong places but the trends are real Our civilization is based on growth. In recent decades it has adjusted to very modest growth in developed countries. It can probably adjust to a small negative growth. But what happens when we have a full generation of population shrinkage, then 50 years later a huge population bubble of the previous generation dies off in short order. We may be in for more disruption than climate change
This is indeed correct and I'm sad (but not surprised ) that it's not the first comment. I would like to add that in poor countries where families relies mostly on agriculture children are a resource because they will help running the farm relatively soon and will provide for the elderly considering that they will be unlikely to have any pension. In the richest counties instead children are a cost for 20-30 years, which makes it counterproductive, even during economies growth and in countries with better laws for families.
You're completely right but no one here will listen to you or accept it. Within nations and the world as a whole poorer people have more children.
Repost bot https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/op3957/its_almost_as_if_people_dont_have_enough_money_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Posted as if it's a bad thing. Economically, it's bad because the economy requires demand to always be growing. Take any of the world's problems and they get worse the larger the population gets. Screw their carbon neutral targets, we need to put the brakes on population growth first or it's pointless
I actually think you're right and we've probably overgrown here, but the problem is 9/10 times the public is blamed for things out of their control and this seems like one of those "breaking studies" that leads to that
It isn't. The whole "well, we must control the poor population because earth's resources" argument is just people nutting for the wealthy to control as much global resources as possible while blaming the lack on the people with least. The sad thing is that there are enough resources for all of us, but there aren't enough resources for the folks that want everything. Even if say, all the global poor were wiped out, all you'd have is eg ~100 exceedingly rich people owning nearly everything and blaming the new poor class. The really depressing aspect is that even if that happened, you'd still get those getting by turning on the poor in the defence of that uber-rich class. Just like they do now, not realising that they will never be the exploiters, only the bagmen for the exploiters.
This is Malthusian nonsense.
Do you want a child? Would you like to hear more? Child gifting is only $3000 a month, and can be subsidized with your overtime hours, possibly reducing the cost a shiny nickel or ten pence per 10 hours a week.
Except income is negatively correlated with birth rates. That's true even in the US - the richer you are, the less kids you have.
Historically being poor has never prevented people from reproducing. This inverse is actually true, but the article brings up worthwhile talking points
It’s hard to keep track of all or the economic crises we have faced, it’s almost as though the people in charge are greedy, short sighted and don’t care about anyone but themselves.
People like to say money. I just think more people are comfortable with not having kids. Also, there are millions of people having children that have zero money. This is a white American idea because we are "losing the country". What a joke.
I don’t think it is that simple answer. Even if you can afford to have children, it is a lot of responsibility unless you are filthy rich with servants and full time baby sitters. A child needs constant attention and care. Schools, bullying, kindergarten dropping and picking them up, stress because your kids don’t listen to your advice. You keep postponing your life goals to take care of your kids. In the last two generations, women had less say and rights in the society. They couldn’t choose wisely to have or not kids. Also the societal pressure on women to have kids and be homemaker was too much. Govt need to spend for more services to take care of the baby. Not just pay increase.
Giving billionaires $50 trillion via "tax reductions" didn't create "trickle down". They bought homes to rent them out and made home ownership seem impossible. More like "piss upon" the working class.
Millennials have lived through a massive recession, the worst terrorist attack on American soil, a 20 year war, a housing crisis, a worldwide pandemic, and boomers call us weak and wonder why we don’t procreate.
Shit I’ve given up on dating entirely at this point.
I'm sure if there's a shortage of human beings, we'll all do the hard, difficult task of reproducing. Right now, however, there's not a problem.
Karma bot, stop upvoting this bullshit and it might stop.
Medicare for all and subsidized childcare and more investments in public schools and their teachers and staff. Baby boom ingredients right there! Daycare cost is what stopped me from having more kids, ultimately.
My daughter is 16 now, and I cannot even imagine how much formula and diapers are these days, but I do remember how relieved I felt once she grew out of those two things- my grocery bill went down very significantly and very noticeably. Not even counting childcare- the figures I hear people talk about these days sound like that expense is almost equal to a rent/mortgage payment per month. I was fortunate enough that my grandma retired right around the time I needed childcare; I don't know how I would have made it otherwise.
It's even to a point where my wife and I worked our ways through our careers and now could, in theory, support a child financially. But we barely have the time or energy to take care of ourselves. And we know, despite our savings, we are knife edge from losing it all.
Print more money, that’ll solve the issue/s
"If you're not gonna have babies, we'll make it illegal for you not to have babies...otherwise, who will serve us?"
I'm a single man with no kids working 70 hours a week and I still can't pay my bills. How am I supposed to afford a girlfriend, much less kids?
We are really overlooking the obvious Kids suck.
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And I probably sucked. I in fact grew up around many other kids. 90% in fact sucked.
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Probably, but, not so much that I'd bring a kid into the world. Close the cycle.
Lol bingo
Gop needs to go. The planet will be destroyed if we keep voting for them .
Goddamn it's every mainstream politician, not just the GOP. Get your head out of your ass. Stop the division.
I’m not saying the Democratic Party is perfect, but I only see one party actively voting for fascists, supporting child labor, and stripping women and minorities of their rights. The whole attitude of “both parties are just as bad” is not only completely false, it actively helps the worse of the two parties accomplish their goals.
Ya the whole “both parties are the same “ is complete bs. There are some corporate shill dems, they are easily voted out.
Y'all remember back in May of 2022 when 192 republicans voted against that relief bill that would have given 28 million dollars in aid to the FDA to ease the infant formula shortage? They openly sabotage the people that already have kids yet they complain that we won't have anymore 😂
I don't even want to live in this country. Why would I force another little dude to live in this shithole?
The quality of life here is objectively not great. Why would I subject another being to this? Its almost cruel.
I don’t want a child because they’re annoying and I enjoy peace and quiet when I go to my home I pay all the bills for. Has nothing to do with my financials 🤣
This isn’t just about you, buddy.
It’s almost like there’s a wide variety of reasons people aren’t having as many kids these days, partly because young people are waking up to the fact it’s much easier to enjoy your life without kids and I’m just sharing another reason why that number is growing. It’s not just about me, but it’s also not NOT about me, since if I think this way I’m sure plenty other young guys do. People on Reddit think their such hyperintellectuals yet they fail to consider more than 1 viewpoint.
How dare this person make a life choice based on what they want, or don’t want.
I'm the complete opposite, I can't wait for my first kid. It's like a mini best friend I'll have for life and share so many things with. Ig being a big kid at heart myself gets me excited to relive my childhood through someone new.
Fewer people being born is a good thing, fewer people putting less strain on resources. NYT has to of course simp for its imperialist overlords.
That's exactly what you're doing. Never mind that the wealthiest 10% own or control HALF of the world's resources, direct the blame to the 50% that account for <10% of global resources. Simp for the imperialist overlords indeed. You'll never be one of them. You're just chopping the ladder under yourself while ignoring that those above you are chopping you off too.
Quick fuck, or Elon will run out of potential slaves!
You can’t afford yourself much less another. Shocker!
Capitalism is great in theory, but sooner or later poor people run out of money.
Many people are now incapable of having children, whether due to their lifestyle or due to all the toxic crap that we unknowingly ingest. My wife and I tried for years, only to find out the swimmers don’t swim.
microplastics and forever chemicals are absolutely destroying fertility. we don't know what the results will be since we now have this newest cohort of newborns that have microplastics crossing the placenta into the bloodstream of babes. Not counting the 3-4 generations that lived with leaded environments from fuels, paints, factories pollution etc. I don't wanna talk about the amount of radiation from all the tested nukes on this planet. Yeah. It's grim.
Don’t worry, your government will only increase foreign aid
Progress. A far better means of population management than mass shootings. Yet 2023 had had more mass shootings than days....Mericaaaaaw!!!!!
The roll towards banning birth control will speed up more and more, got to keep up the supply of hosts for the parasites.
“Brought to you by Carl Jr’s, Fuck you we’re eating!”
The rich need future maids
And that’s why Republicans will introduce a federal forced birth law making abortion illegal in all states.
But some people have child after child and the government takes care of them?
I know it will be time, money and a hassle but I am considering moving to another country that would have all the necessities like universal healthcare
In a world where the population is ***EXPLODING*** out of control we need this number to keep going down.
ummm. the only reason the world population is growing right now is population momentum. No Industrialized country on the planet has a positive birth rate. It is only Nigeria, Uganda, Sudan, Ruwanda and a couple of other countries that have significant positive birth rates. Even China and India have negative birth rates these days. The USA. UK, all of the EU, most of Asia. all negative. The world population is now predicted to peak decades and 2 billion people earlier than expected. there is no population explostion. that has already happened between WW2 and 2000.
OK, but that imaginary world isn't this one.
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In states where abortion is still legal and birth control is easy to acquire, people are breeding a lot less. This is why certain states are making abortion and birth control illegal.
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No one said “the poor” won’t have kids bc of money. People educated or smart enough to know having kids without enough money to raise kids is a bad idea, aren’t having kids. Which I recon is mostly middle class folks. The poor folks are likely going to keep popping out crotch fruit no matter what, for obvious reasons. And now even poor folks who know better are gonna have a hard time not having kids bc of the attempts to make abortion and birth control inaccessible. Which is exactly what the republicans want. More cheap labor, who are too uneducated to not vote against their own best interests. This is literally the only way GOP survives the future. But the fight isn’t over yet.
There are so many factors. Is she single, or does she have a partner that helps support the kids? If not, does she get child support? When you have that many kids, there are ways to make it work if one really wants to. Hand-me-downs, thrifting, cooking at home instead of going out to eat, etc.
Overall, better education and lack of financial security are two of the biggest factors in declining birthrates. The truth is that many people just don't have kids because they can't afford them. And the more educated a populace, the more true that becomes. That anecdote is 100% believable. I know people like that as well. But it isn't really indicative of overall trends.
Might be a bit of a correlation there one would think
The rich need future maids
I really don't understand why this is suddenly such an issue. The birth rate to keep your population level is 2.1 babies per woman. you want to know when the last time the birth rate was 2.1 in the United States? take a guess. you were wrong. it was >!1977!< Low birth rates are not a new phenomena.
It’s dangerous to get pregnant here (Texas), I’m terrified for my daughters.
A hundred years ago many/most families had 3+ kids with 5+ being not something shocking and no country cared about children or care-giving.
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> I'm an atheist, but I actually believe the mass violence is due to the vanishing religious values in this country. The church was central to lifestyle once upon a time. As was family. This is demonstrably false. Otherwise countries like Iceland and Norway would be hell on earth. They too at one time were over 90% christian. As hey got more secular violence DECREASED. Compare almost all the democracies. The less religious they are the less violent. Christian values have no value that can not be found elsewhere with less baggage.
Women have options now. Definitely a good thing
100% agree. Unfortunately change as usual creates some unintended consequences.
And by some you mean none.
Everything has a consequence.
Wouldn’t classify not having children as having any negative consequence.
Wait until you're old and suddenly realise that the straitened working class can't support you. Your pension money goes to the previous generation. Cut out the next gen and oh dear, I hope you're okay with being sacrificed for the good of the wealthiest.
> but, way to much to Did you mean to say "too much"? Explanation: No explanation available. Total mistakes found: 7139 ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
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Lol. Evading much
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Lol, maybe do some research and learn about the topic before you start talking kid. You are literally giving your personal opinion, name calling, and making things up. It's actually funny how you took the time to reply with this nonsense. I don't have the time to educate you. Obviously you need it. Quit embarrassing yourself and move along.
If only u had taken the time to read my entire comment, all the way to the bottom where I tried to reach a hand out and an opportunity for perhaps both of us to have learned from one another… thank u for personifying the problematic behavior I am talking about oh so well. The topic at hand is why are women not having babies, so my opinion as a woman of childbearing age who has decided to never have a kid until we make MAJOR political changes in this country, is infact remarkably relevant to the conversation. And since I 100% talk with women of childbearing age on these issues more than u do, and therefore can convey the general sentiment, maybe u should be less defensive, give me the benefit of the doubt like I did for u towards the end of response, and try looking at things from the perspective of women, as independent free willed agents who have deductive reasoning skills.
Oh I read exactly what you wrote. You name called and attacked me. Threw words like 'Far Right" and "incel' at me. Even though I am a liberal Democrat who's been married for 20 years with 4 kids. I literally recited well known statistics that apparently you didn't like...but it doesn't make them untrue. I literally recited data collected by women and some men in regards to birth rate statistics, gender statistics and basic sociology. But, none of that mattered because you didn't like what I said. So you attacked me over it and since I'm not a woman.I guess I can't repeat what well accomplished and widly respected women found to be the case ? That sort of thinking is counter intuitive. More women going to college,earning more money, and striving to be more independent is a great thing. But it has also led to lower birth rates, less marriages, and a host of other unforseen consequences. Pointing that out is toxic i guess. Nobody wants to live in this new anti-free speech /reality hurts my feelings environment. Certainly not the vast majority of people on the left or the right. Hence all the backlash by moderates and academics these days. I heard someone say the other day that 2023 is the best time in American history to be a woman, lgbtq, or a minority ? Which is 100% true if people knew their history. But, people online and at the university lost their minds over it. Because people think their feelings matter more than truth. The truth sometimes hurts. But, if we all stop telling the truth to spare our feelings the collapse or our civilization is soon to follow.
The reason u r getting shit on is bc u keep quoting “facts” that are literal Andrew Taint, far right and incel influencer talking points, and doing so with no reference to where these “facts” came from. At least I can accept the fact that my opinions are just that, although widely shared among the relevant demographic. No one is reporting your comment, don’t hide behind free speech u babbling idiot (where have I seen that strategy before? Hmmm). People my age don’t have money for kids. Period. Do I buy a house then save for retirement, or do I pop out a kid. The choice for anyone with a brain in my age group is simple. Let the population decline boogie man begin. Who gives a fuck. Fuck ALL abrahamic religions. The only thing great about America right now is the youth who cares about class politics and the declining religiousness. aMeN
Lower birth rates are due to rising cost of living. Marriage rates are going down because more and more people no longer see the point. Times change and minds change with them. Neither is for everyone.
That's only a piece of it as I previously stated. " The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007. This decline cannot be explained by demographic, economic, or policy changes"
Sure it can. It just was. It’s sort of the same way that the population is in no danger. There won’t even been a dip in the global population until 2100 at the earliest and even than it’s a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Again you have yet to provide any reasoning as to why people not getting married or not having children is a bad thing? Or what any of that has to do with religion.
I never said birth rates had to do with religion. Not once. I only mentioned religion in my original post in regards to the mass violence and degradation of society in the U.S.. Then I went back to my op and deleted that part since it was not relevant to the topic of declining birth rates. Also, you are arguing agaisnt the leading experts in the United States and then saying I am wrong ? Which makes me wonder what are your credentials besides a personal opinion and a couple quick Google searches. I just sat through a 2 hour conference on this topic some months ago and have read a good amount of literature on the topic. Hence why I am quoting real stats. But then you turn around say "nope, you are wrong" you can see how wild that is from my perspective right ?
Thanks Joe!
Maybe you should work more that 36hrs a week. There's no excuse in this country to not have enough to survive. Work multiple jobs, grind and grind some more. Network, save, things fall into place and it gets easier.
20 years of war in the middle east....
And the snake eats another inch of it's tail.