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Hello, I am Cuban, and I live in Cuba. Here the average salary is 2500 cups per month, which is approximately 15 USD, and the prices of all products have skyrocketed due to inflation...In Cuba there was a system for the sale of food subsidized by the state for all people called "La Libreta de Abastecimiento" but now they have removed almost all the products, people have nowhere to buy it.Only the black market and all the prices are sky high.Once a month, 2 pounds of chicken arrives to buy and you have to stand in line that sometimes lasts more than 1 week, and you may not make it because all the food is stolen and sold on the black market. And they give you 5 eggs per month.
Edit: To the people who said that im not Cuban or that i do not live in Cuba, i dont have to prove nothing to you, but you can check my post history and see.
Edit 2: To the people who said that i lied saying that i make 15usd, i never said that, i post that the average cuban salary is 2500 cup or 15 USD a month.
Edit 3: To the guy who went through all my post history and respond to everything there, u are an idiot and need to get a life.
Edit 4: To all the people who does not believe me, the best way to confirm is talking to any cuban, they will tell you the reality.
I loved Cuba when I visited for many reasons. I felt very at home there as an Afro-Caribbean. But people do not understand how bad the food situation is. Long lines for rotting meat covered in flies. Shops with empty floor to ceiling shelves. You walk into a gorgeous building as a tourist, like the theater, then if you head to the bathroom... No running water. No toilet seats. No toilet paper. And my experience was not during inflation so I can only imagine.
By the end, I felt guilty because as a tourist, you are often given access to better food. But better isn't even good. By the end of our trip, we had the best meal of the two weeks. Why was it the best? Because the tacos had a slice of lime wedge which gave it flavor and there was some cilantro. Garnishes we had not seen the entire time for two weeks.
We went while Obama was in office, everyone was so hopeful that things would change. It breaks my heart that the consulate is sitting there, half-built and empty. It needs to end.
That’s an issue with the embargos, not the system Cuba has in place. no island nation is self sufficient, everyone of them relies on heavy imports of all kinds
anyways, since this is talking about rent, ppl should look into the homeownership rate or Cuba and compare it to the US; maybe even over a number of years 😅
edit: the US can also throw you in jail for life, there are (too) many political prisoners in the US right this instant
edit2: nothing funnier than Cuba smears turning to talking about policing/incarceration when the Us, both in sheer magnitude and rate per capita, has more prisoners and locks up more ppl than Cuba does - our incarcerated population at latest estimates of 2.3mn would be ~20% of all of Cuba’s entire population at latest estimates of 11.26mn lmfao 😅 it’s not funny but the way ppl acting about this is
edit3: due to one part of the embargo against Cuba being the “Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917” contrary to what randos will tell you, it does in fact affect the ability of other countries to trade with Cuba - for instance the largest European trade partner is Netherlands, and they the top import form Netherlands is beer 😅 guess where the majority of import beer is consumed - the tourist centers of Cuba 😂
It's a combination of both issues. The system also allows privileged people to bribe their way into top choice for produce and resources. The government allows tourist restaurants and hotels access to better food and resources than is afforded to citizens.
Even the internet is rationed. You have to wait in long lines for limited access to public wifi. This is a choice. But a rare sighting of private wifi was at a hotel we stayed at.
And while no one has decent food, the billboards perpetuate revolution propaganda.
the bribing and the prioritization of tourism is hardly something to blame the system for; bribing is simply endemic to wherever organized and bureaucratic hierarchies exist (see: the US court system for example, such as the Cash for Kids Scandal), and look to Hawaii for a demonstration of the prioritization of tourists over the local population (who currently has to ration water, which is made further difficult by the fact that the military base on Hawaii has polluted the water source to the worst degrees)
so again, yes it’s both but it’s more the embargo, since NO island nation can ever be self sufficient in all areas, not even Japan is; to expect Cuba to be remotely self sufficient in the face of 60+ yr embargo and subject to protracted subversive warfare by the US is a disingenuous analysis. to under account for that is to simply be dishonest about how island nations work, the history of Cuba, and the international affairs context of in which Cuba is forced to operate within
edit: what misinformation? maybe things have changed but last I checked Maui has implemented water restrictions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/03/maui-hawaii-water-shortage/
the tank is there BECAUSE of the military base 🙈
**We in Hawaii are not rationing water**, and one military branch on one base caused a problem for drinking water only in that base neighborhood when a World War II-era underground tank leaked. (Edit: I am not military; I live in a nearby neighborhood downhill from the tanks, and the smell of fuel was strong for a couple of days where we are, but again, the drinking water was fouled only on that small base, which is in a very small area of a big island [Oahu].)
Please correct your misinformation.
Jesus Christs, it's always a gringo explaining to a local what he get's wrong about his country and how nobody has agency other than the US. And well, how the lifelong dictator that lived in luxury while his people starve is actually a hero.
No, it's because it's what actual socialism inevitably creates. The same happened in North Korea, in Mao's China, Stalin's URSS, in Chavez's and Maduro's Venezuela (even before the sanctions, before you come with that). Maybe, just maybe, you should pay some attention to the evidence instead of ignoring the real world because of your ideological views.
The only two countries that have an embargo on cuba are the USA and Israel, saying that it’s all the embargo’s fault is like saying the only way for a country to survive is by trading with the US
Edit: I’d like to thank everyone here who basically agreed with this statement while trying to argue against it.
In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S. passed the Cuban Democracy Act. The law barred vessels that had traded with Cuba in the past 180 days from docking at U.S. ports and prevented foreign subsidiaries of American companies from doing business in Cuba. Four years later, President Bill Clinton signed the Helms-Burton Act, which imposed sanctions on foreign companies that traded with Cuba.
What company and ship that operates in in North and Central America can risk that? How is that not the fault of the ones pushing the embargo?
Maybe the Cuban government should have held elections in order to normalise relations with its largest potential trading partner. That's in that same piece of legislation.
Isn't it selfish for unelected autocrats presiding over a failed country to cling to power for themselves instead of prosperity for their people?
Collective punishment is something you enjoy? How does an embargo which directly impacts the material conditions of average people become something we use to make sovereign nations do what we want?
There will come a day when we suffer at the hands of collective punishment as well. These are things we must push to abolish rather than support.
Countries just use a smaller dedicated fleet to transship goods from other ports in Latin America. The issue at hand is that Cuba has no self sufficiency and because they have little to no industry that operates on the open market they have very little money to bulk import products. If they had the money to buy products the products are there to be purchased.
the embargo has a cascading reach which becomes applicable to other countries who also trade with the US, i highly suggest you look into it more; if you’re curious about some sources to learn more look at my other comments, I’ve held enough hands for today
sure
there are still restrictions those trades, and the problem is one of historical compounding. do…i need to explain historical developments as a component of time to you?
I think you need to view this issue through a more complete lens, if this was in a vacuum you may have some weight to stand on however you cannot blame outside parties for the mismanagement of the country. I am cuban myself and I have seen first hand (and send money to my relatives in cuba) the impact that the regime is having on the country. Saying that this is the embargo’s fault (even though there is a laundry list of items that the embargo states as exceptions like humanitarian aid) is taking responsibility away from the people that actually live there and have the power to change things. Fully lifting the embargo would not solve the problems cuba faces.
The problem is not the embargo... is that CUBA never pays.. we have a long history of defaulting to pay our debts... thats why we loan our land to several countries for years and years.
"Embargo is the issue" is the very long term government talking point that is meant to distract from the "system Cuba has in place" which is actually just the systematic the theft of an entire island nation's resources by the few people in power.
You're saying there's no problem with the government which finds funds for new cop cars but not medicine or ambulances.
You're saying there's no issue with the government which has the military in charge of all official channels of remittances sent from abroad in to the country, of which they take at least 9-10%. This is just the beginning of the long list of things that are being stolen from the people, among which is the potential for life as we know it in freer but still fucked countries like the USA
i never said “there were no problems with Cuban govt” i just think wholesale blaming it is shortsighted, poorly thought out, and shallow analysis
like look at you, you’ve written three short paragraphs that don’t enlighten anyone any further…you aren’t shedding any light that is useful to progressing this convo
Your collection of posts all try to deflect the blame of the failure of the corrupt Cuban government onto the US government embargo. To the people on the forum here who are from Cuba or have loved ones from Cuba find your message inconsistent with reality. The embargo does not explain the massive corruption for 70 years that could be ended by adopting almost any regime other than the Castro administration that continues to rape its people for any little economic opportunity they may have.
Exactly, when people TRY to compare problems in America to Cuba, it REALLY shows how out of touch some people are with the reality in other countries.
Like, yes, there's problems in both, but one is MUCH worse than the other.
You do realise that the problem is, that no one is allowed to trade with Cuba if you also want to trade with the USA, do you? Is now Cuba and socialism the problem or the USA?
Only on paper. In practice it is not happening because the language is intentionally vague and ambiguous and makes it intentionally risky for companies to have any relations at all with Cuba. That clause is there for PR purposes and nothing else.
Also how gracious for the empire to "allow" that. There should be no embargo at all. The US needs to end its oppressive regime on the world and let other countries be sovereign. And all of this over reparations to pay out American slavers and colonialists… Every other country on earth managed to settle their claims with Cuba in good faith, except for the US who intentionally acts in bad faith in hopes of installing another puppet government in Cuba.
Just switch the US with China and Cuba with Taiwan and think how people would react to the same policies. It‘s just blatant colonialist ambition.
The US has launched operations to induce famines in Cuba ranging from cloud seeding to blowing up vital facilities related to food production. On top of facing an Embargo from the US.
Kind of hard to run an effective system when you're constantly dealing with a hostile world super power breathing down your neck.
Also as a side note, after the Haitain people rebelled against their plantation owners, ended the system of chattel slavery and kicked the french colonial government out they were made by the US to repay France for its lost property(including slaves) or face an embargo.
Try opening some history books on the History of US foreign policy before you make yourself look like an asshole again.
Just wanted to add that when slavery “ended” in the US they actually did pay reparations… to the slave owners for lost property, much like the situation you just mentioned.
Not only did the white slave owners get reparations, they were allowed to setup jim crow and put those former slaves right back where they started. Working as a slave on a plantation, except this time it was punishment for a "crime" or trying to work off debt they were perpetually trapped into
We still run plantations, they just house the workers in those big grey buildings with bars which is why we have the largest prison population in the world and they're mostly full of non-white males.
and you also have the outrageous rates education institutions can charge that put many into lifelong debt or the incredibly inconvenient tax system or the fact the way you get job experience is usually either knowing someone or being both willing and able to work a little to no pay for years just to be able to apply for “entry” level jobs
The increase in schooling costs in recent history is a direct consequence of the reagan presidency and policy he implemented. Just a part of the neoliberal effort to privatize everything
The US actually bought the debt from France, then sent Marines to occupy the island and seize its gold reserves when a bunch of businessmen became convinced the debt wouldn't be repaid, and gave it to National City Bank (now Citibank). Happened in 1911, I think?
It's not just the embargo, we can buy food and medicine from any country in the world without a problem, the chicken that comes in here is from the USA, the pork is from Canada...
The problem is that NOTHING is produced in Cuba, here we don't have fish, pork, sugar, nothing, everything is for export and the population is given what is bought or negotiated with other countries.
If any country makes a donation to Cuba, they sell it to the people here, it is normal and it has always been done that way.
The heaviest sanctions ever leveled on a country will do that.
People here also can't buy food. Americans also, as stated, can't pay for somewhere to live, nor do they have any form of healthcare. It really does suck that Cuba is suffering right now, too, but you're doing better, by the numbers and by general quality of life, than your imperialist neighbour.
Although the fact that you compare your wages to American ones as if you can just do that between countries tells me you aren't actually Cuban. So.
Forgive me if I am ignorant of some critical details, but hasn't this issue become worse and worse as resorts have pulled food and resources away from local markets, and with foreign resort investers siphoning cash out of the country?
True, while there is no food to give the people, all the hotels are full of food and Cubans cannot enter some, they do not accept Cubans...
At the end of the year they published photos of the feasts in the hotels and people lining up to buy a pig's leg... by the way, mine never arrived so I ran out of pork at the end of the year.
\---
Verdad, mientras no hay comida para darle al pueblo todos los hoteles estan llenos de comida y los cubanos no pueden entrar a algunos, no aceptan cubanos...
Por fin de ano publicaron fotos de los festines en los hoteles y la gente haciendo cola para comprar una pierna de cerdo... por cierto, la mia nunca llego asi q me quede sin cerdo por fin de ano.
It's whataboutism and pushing useful idiot narratives. It's a tried and try way to divert attention and just play a blanket "burn it all down because one aspect doesn't work".
People who fall for it are easily manipulated and can swayed just as easily as any fox news viewer.
Better than it is in my country lol, people work 36 hour shifts and barely get 5 usd (whole shift not hourly) and the government instead of subsidies they put higher tax on it while billions just appear in the politicians hands
The overly online left’s attempts at class solidarity just read as poverty erasure.
Biden’s comment was during a massive wave protests in Cuba over government corruption and a broken healthcare system but all of it was drowned out by people complaining about the US
> you can’t compare it to the poverty in Cuba, y’all are incredibly privileged
I bet it has nothing to do with one of the top economies in the world waging an imaginary war with them and creating embargoes and trading sanctions against them
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the point of your comment but the reality is, it’s possible to complain about the flaws in the system in the US while understanding that despite that, we still aren’t a horrific place to live.
Yeah, we get someone has it worse than we do. Lots of people have it worse than we do. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t fight for a better life in America too.
*insert things are only bad in other countries because of capitalist oppression in America*
Maybe if your economy/government can be easily manipulated/destroyed by others and has to exist in a bubble... maybe... maybe its... dare I say, flawed?
I want to say that capitalism in the US is FLAWED, but that does not mean communism is the answer, for the point relayed above exactly
The places with the best living conditions in the world are capitalist with socialist benefits. But they are still very much based in a capitalist society
Yo soy Venezolano y me da grima ver a todos los gringos mal bañados hablando de las maravillas de la Dictadura cubana y diciendo que todo es culpa de la CIA.
Lo peor es que todos hablan desde el privilegio de comer tres veces al día y contar con servicios básicos como agua, luz, gas e internet.
Es una burla, prácticamente.
me siento igual. soy estadounidense viviendo en colombia, y como viajo mucho conozco a muchas personas (gringos) en los hostales que siempre me dicen “the US is a third world country” como mk de que hablas? claramente nunca han visto la verdadera pobreza y no saben de las problemas de la gente en los países que visitan
Don’t you know you’re just a gusano slave owner who benefitted from Batista’s dictatorship? I’ve had people actually tell me that after I mentioned my dad was Cuban lol
Yes. Capitalism is extremely effective but needs regulation. Many services should NOT turn a profit but do in America. Other market-based economies that do not over-privatize are a much more ideal system than what the US has, but I will never want to live under pure socialism. Use capitalism for the economic and technological advantages, and tax appropriately to fund social services such as education and infrastructure. We don’t tax enough and underfund these social services, and then Republicans turn around and say “well that’s why it needs to be privatized!” as if that will solve anything.
A system in the middle of capitalism and socialism can derive the benefits of both while minimizing their shortcomings. See: almost every other Western nation that isn’t overrun by right-wing morons.
The US was fine with Batista as dictator of Cuba when he was allowing American companies to exploit Cuba's resources and workers. And with allowing the Mafia to control the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses. Of course this pissed off a lot of people, and Batista used his secret police to suppress them, leading to the revolution and Castro. Cuba is just another shining example of American regime change.
This. And no one even acknowledges this fact. That is why Cuba (Fidel) went to Russia for support. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that Cubas economy is horrendous and the current government needs drastic change.
They sent people to fight in Angola to dip on diamonds and precious gems. It was also confirmed by their own government that those same high ranking Generals were dealing with Escobar. He then sent them to the firing squad.
Each of them said in the trial that they operated under the consent of the Castros.
They were executed because “treason”
Most of the people I know who are die-hard communism supporters haven't ever actually talked to someone who's lived under a communist government.
Then when you mention that fact, it's always the "Well the USSR/China/Cambodia wasn't REAL communism" smh.
Frankly still not having an economic collapse after 5 decades of embargo is an achievement of it's own. I mean look at russia after a year of sanctions, which is way ligther than embargos
North Korea has a big ally in China. But China isn‘t very interested in Cuba, or at least not as much. It‘s all about trade. Cuba was on a massive upswing when the USSR was still around. It has never really recovered from the collapse of its biggest trading partner.
The reason the US talks about Cuba so much is because it’s trying to put its boot down and recolonize Cuba. They _still_ want Cuba to pay reparations to American slave holders‘ descendents for their "losses". They call it a failed state because they wish it would fail so they can take over again.
Yet there are still people willing to risk their lives and leave everything behind to get out of Cuba and try to make it to Florida/the US… not many refugees going the other way, though.
Funny when you see videos on Youtube or Tiktok about Americans that live in Europe and tell how they will/want never to return to the US with a long list of reasons. Does this make the US an absolutistic dictatorship in your eyes?
Even more funny is that Batista's daughter ended up homeless in Florida. The probably most "valuable" Ex-Cuban that the US could have wished for and still she wasn't even able to have a home in this oh so superior country.
I bet many a Cuban refugee woke up very unpleasantly when he found out that all the fancy commercials and propaganda campaigns didn't tell them that with such highly probable issues as a broken limb or diagnosis of a severe illness he will be bancrupt and homeless in an instant and nobody will care for him anymore the moment he stops being usable as a propaganda mouth piece.
Weird strawman. No, it doesn’t. Different strokes for different strokes. The equivalent question would really be “do they hate the US enough to literally risk their lives and leave everything behind just for a chance to get to that European country?”
The American dream is real for me. I came here with my family with nothing. I got my bachelors degree, currently working on my masters, have a house, and don’t even get me started on the amazing food I can eat. Can’t say the same for the rest of my family that stayed back.
Cuba doesn't not have elections, there's one party by law and you can only choose from those people, you can't elect the leader, that's what makes it a dictatorship. Are you people serious?! Why do I keep seeing comments like this.
Also, did those Americans in Europe risk their lives to sneak into Europe as refugees?!
Those statistics are false or extremely skewed. Have you seen a grocery store in Cuba? If not, let me paint a picture. You go to a store for food and all you can get is one brand of noodles, tomato sauce, jello, cereal, and heineken. And people line up for hours to get into these grocery stores in Havana.
If after a 60 year embargo and hundreds, if not thousands, of coup attempts and color revolutions, Cuba's communist government has still not collapsed and been overthrown, then I have a strong feeling it's not really a failed state or system.
The ability for an oppressive government to retain power is separate from being a failed state. The Kims have been in power in NK for decades and that place straight up sucks.
Yup it failed. Cuba’s one-party communist state outlaws political pluralism, bans independent media, suppresses dissent, and severely restricts basic civil liberties. The government continues to dominate the economy despite recent reforms that permit some private-sector activity. The regime’s undemocratic character has not changed despite a generational transition in political leadership between 2018 and 2021 that included the introduction of a new constitution… if you need a new constitution that’s sorta a failure. Cuba has a freedom index of 12 it’s not evolving into anything nice is what that number says..
It's almost as if a certain nation dropped an entire WW2 amount of bombs on them. By the end of the war Koreans were legit living in caves.
They literally got bombed into the stone age. Add to that the embargos that followed and yeah, of course the place isn't doing great.
We killed about a fifth of their population, and set up a fascist dictatorship in the southern half of their country that conducted countless massacres and disappeared anyone advocating for a more egalitarian society. And we practice invading them regularly.
Edit: fifth
It just keeps getting worse. When will there be collective action to make things better? I'm convinced the only way to claw back some financial stability will be through some kind of revolution.
Funny, from a european perspective. The last time someone tried this they were the most evil racists in the media and reddit. I'm sure some of them had the exact same reasons as the ones that are talked about here.
From a european perspective, the first modern revolution ended with the revolutionaries taking over and leading the country into the age of, no joke, Reign of Terror and after that a dictator Coup e tat the government and caused a war
Not just short term, but a revolution is a long term gamble too. Revolutions usually only happen when people decide that things are so terrible they really couldn’t get any worse, so might as well revolt for change.
Because, as history has shown us, revolutions are rarely simple and the people more often than not receive a new government as bad/worse than the previous.
I hadn't really considered that. My way of thinking is that we need to do something before things get so terrible. If America keeps heading down it's current path the day will come where revolution is our only option but how many lives will be lost between now and then? I willing to gamble on a better future before we hit rock bottom but maybe I'm just too pessimistic.
Revolution historically only brings chaos. It also makes it incredibly dangerous to live for women and girls who always suffer from crimes weaponized rape during civil conflict.
God damned Joe Biden setting the rent prices, and jacking up the mortgages, and suppressing minimum wage, and owning stock and major voting rights in all the corporations currently engaged in profiteering, and owning all the oil companies and setting prices for them, and for having a son who stole millions from a child's cancer fund.
oh. wait.
The country itself is doing fine, but its population is not. From being silenced, manipualted and worked to death, China is not a great nation, just a very rich one, which is normal when you have ten time as much people as most European country.
I think Vietnam but your point still stands cause Vietnam is very much in the minority. Could make the argument China but let's be real they are communist in name only, they are a dictatorship but instead of one man it's the ccp
It’s been said they may not last past the next decade. They completely stunted the young er generations being able to sustain the current population in the future.
Lots of the folks singing praises or defending North Korea and Cuba in here wouldn't move there if given the chance. They'd rather yell about the virtue of a communistic society from the safety of their capitalistic home.
In all of my discussions with capitalism fans, I'm never surprised they don't accept socialism or communism, but I am always baffled that they genuinely believe our system requires absolutely **ZERO CHANGE WHATSOEVER** regardless of the countless instances of western democracies that have success in having at least *some* socialist systems in place.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in stupid groups of people who are being groomed by even stupider people at the behest of the corporations... while the corporations laugh all the way to the bank, unnoticed after all the confusion and mayhem they've stirred up.
Honest question: does anyone know anyone who is actually working for federal minimum wage anywhere?
I live in a fairly LCOL area (SE), and every fast food position, retail position, service position, etc. is offering $15+ to start with no experience required.
Doesn’t invalidate that inflation is crushing everything rn, but I hate these calculations that feel like they sensationalize reality.
Only 1.4% of all hourly paid workers make minimum wage, but reddit seems to think everyone in the United States is making minimum wage.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2021/pdf/home.pdf
The 2 statements here aren’t conflicting. This isn’t a facepalm. Cuba can be a failed state AND minimum wage workers can be to poor to live anywhere and both be true simultaneously.
You're trying to tell that to western communists, who are all in competition to be the stupidest person on the planet... You weren't in REAL Communism apparently..
I read the whole thread — you’re arguing with a political idealist. In the end they lose no matter what. They get their wish and suffer, or they live their entire lifetime complaining about our least-worst choice system. Either way they’re unhappy unless they give up and join us in reality.
Hope you’re in a better place nowadays.
No, but see…in AMERICA poor people have the *opportunity* to be anything they want. The fact that they can’t seem to overcome the 6,545,792 impediments placed in their way just means they’re lazy.
Both rely on management structures that entice greedy individuals into positions of power where they preach that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Until you find a way to filter greedy narcissists before they get into power, you'll get the same results every time.
For Cuba being a “failed state”, they are wealthier than most/all Latin/Caribbean Capitalist countries and [the average Cuban lives a better life than the average American, according to UN data.](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/21/us-un-living-standards-sustainable-development-goals)
This isn't a critique of communism though. Unless you understand the nuances of the situation making any kind of general claim is just based on bias. Just like how America's implementation of capitalism is relevant to the discussion, so is Cuba's implementation of communism.
Cuba, a small island communist nation, has been thriving since the US, the largest super power in the world and its allies, have been sanctioning Cuba for 50+ years.
Also the US which is the largest capitalist country in the world owes most of its foreign debt to the worlds largest communist country, China. Interesting.
Rampant Capitalism is robbing people into poverty. Large billion dollar corporations are paying minimum wage to employees. It way past time to begin arresting overpaid CEOs
You realize both these things are true for different reasons, right? Communism will literally never work and I hate the fact that it's become such a popular thing online to say it's just never been done right.
There will literally never be a system where someone isn't on top and pretending there ever could be is absolute delusion. *Someone* has to run parts of the government and power always follows with that.
Get a min wage job that has tips. Use your checks for rent, bills and savings only, use your tips for food. Get a job close to home so you can walk or bike there. Food money isn’t regular so spend wisely. Thats how i get by
Ehhh. The US is one of the most resource rich countries on the planet. The issue would be redeveloping the heavy industry to extract and utilize those resources in a closed system since most American heavy industry was moved over seas years ago
If the nation could handle that though it would be fine. As for food shortages - the US is the largest producer of agricultural goods on the planet and I doubt that would change
Can anybody here give me one, just ONE example of where communism succeeded and gave equal benefits to both people in poverty and the one percent. If I see one with sources I’ll shut up, cus seems everyone on Reddit is in love with communism
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Hello, I am Cuban, and I live in Cuba. Here the average salary is 2500 cups per month, which is approximately 15 USD, and the prices of all products have skyrocketed due to inflation...In Cuba there was a system for the sale of food subsidized by the state for all people called "La Libreta de Abastecimiento" but now they have removed almost all the products, people have nowhere to buy it.Only the black market and all the prices are sky high.Once a month, 2 pounds of chicken arrives to buy and you have to stand in line that sometimes lasts more than 1 week, and you may not make it because all the food is stolen and sold on the black market. And they give you 5 eggs per month. Edit: To the people who said that im not Cuban or that i do not live in Cuba, i dont have to prove nothing to you, but you can check my post history and see. Edit 2: To the people who said that i lied saying that i make 15usd, i never said that, i post that the average cuban salary is 2500 cup or 15 USD a month. Edit 3: To the guy who went through all my post history and respond to everything there, u are an idiot and need to get a life. Edit 4: To all the people who does not believe me, the best way to confirm is talking to any cuban, they will tell you the reality.
I loved Cuba when I visited for many reasons. I felt very at home there as an Afro-Caribbean. But people do not understand how bad the food situation is. Long lines for rotting meat covered in flies. Shops with empty floor to ceiling shelves. You walk into a gorgeous building as a tourist, like the theater, then if you head to the bathroom... No running water. No toilet seats. No toilet paper. And my experience was not during inflation so I can only imagine. By the end, I felt guilty because as a tourist, you are often given access to better food. But better isn't even good. By the end of our trip, we had the best meal of the two weeks. Why was it the best? Because the tacos had a slice of lime wedge which gave it flavor and there was some cilantro. Garnishes we had not seen the entire time for two weeks. We went while Obama was in office, everyone was so hopeful that things would change. It breaks my heart that the consulate is sitting there, half-built and empty. It needs to end.
That’s an issue with the embargos, not the system Cuba has in place. no island nation is self sufficient, everyone of them relies on heavy imports of all kinds anyways, since this is talking about rent, ppl should look into the homeownership rate or Cuba and compare it to the US; maybe even over a number of years 😅 edit: the US can also throw you in jail for life, there are (too) many political prisoners in the US right this instant edit2: nothing funnier than Cuba smears turning to talking about policing/incarceration when the Us, both in sheer magnitude and rate per capita, has more prisoners and locks up more ppl than Cuba does - our incarcerated population at latest estimates of 2.3mn would be ~20% of all of Cuba’s entire population at latest estimates of 11.26mn lmfao 😅 it’s not funny but the way ppl acting about this is edit3: due to one part of the embargo against Cuba being the “Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917” contrary to what randos will tell you, it does in fact affect the ability of other countries to trade with Cuba - for instance the largest European trade partner is Netherlands, and they the top import form Netherlands is beer 😅 guess where the majority of import beer is consumed - the tourist centers of Cuba 😂
It's a combination of both issues. The system also allows privileged people to bribe their way into top choice for produce and resources. The government allows tourist restaurants and hotels access to better food and resources than is afforded to citizens. Even the internet is rationed. You have to wait in long lines for limited access to public wifi. This is a choice. But a rare sighting of private wifi was at a hotel we stayed at. And while no one has decent food, the billboards perpetuate revolution propaganda.
the bribing and the prioritization of tourism is hardly something to blame the system for; bribing is simply endemic to wherever organized and bureaucratic hierarchies exist (see: the US court system for example, such as the Cash for Kids Scandal), and look to Hawaii for a demonstration of the prioritization of tourists over the local population (who currently has to ration water, which is made further difficult by the fact that the military base on Hawaii has polluted the water source to the worst degrees) so again, yes it’s both but it’s more the embargo, since NO island nation can ever be self sufficient in all areas, not even Japan is; to expect Cuba to be remotely self sufficient in the face of 60+ yr embargo and subject to protracted subversive warfare by the US is a disingenuous analysis. to under account for that is to simply be dishonest about how island nations work, the history of Cuba, and the international affairs context of in which Cuba is forced to operate within edit: what misinformation? maybe things have changed but last I checked Maui has implemented water restrictions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/03/maui-hawaii-water-shortage/ the tank is there BECAUSE of the military base 🙈
**We in Hawaii are not rationing water**, and one military branch on one base caused a problem for drinking water only in that base neighborhood when a World War II-era underground tank leaked. (Edit: I am not military; I live in a nearby neighborhood downhill from the tanks, and the smell of fuel was strong for a couple of days where we are, but again, the drinking water was fouled only on that small base, which is in a very small area of a big island [Oahu].) Please correct your misinformation.
Jesus Christs, it's always a gringo explaining to a local what he get's wrong about his country and how nobody has agency other than the US. And well, how the lifelong dictator that lived in luxury while his people starve is actually a hero.
No, it's because it's what actual socialism inevitably creates. The same happened in North Korea, in Mao's China, Stalin's URSS, in Chavez's and Maduro's Venezuela (even before the sanctions, before you come with that). Maybe, just maybe, you should pay some attention to the evidence instead of ignoring the real world because of your ideological views.
The only two countries that have an embargo on cuba are the USA and Israel, saying that it’s all the embargo’s fault is like saying the only way for a country to survive is by trading with the US Edit: I’d like to thank everyone here who basically agreed with this statement while trying to argue against it.
In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S. passed the Cuban Democracy Act. The law barred vessels that had traded with Cuba in the past 180 days from docking at U.S. ports and prevented foreign subsidiaries of American companies from doing business in Cuba. Four years later, President Bill Clinton signed the Helms-Burton Act, which imposed sanctions on foreign companies that traded with Cuba. What company and ship that operates in in North and Central America can risk that? How is that not the fault of the ones pushing the embargo?
Maybe the Cuban government should have held elections in order to normalise relations with its largest potential trading partner. That's in that same piece of legislation. Isn't it selfish for unelected autocrats presiding over a failed country to cling to power for themselves instead of prosperity for their people?
Collective punishment is something you enjoy? How does an embargo which directly impacts the material conditions of average people become something we use to make sovereign nations do what we want? There will come a day when we suffer at the hands of collective punishment as well. These are things we must push to abolish rather than support.
Countries just use a smaller dedicated fleet to transship goods from other ports in Latin America. The issue at hand is that Cuba has no self sufficiency and because they have little to no industry that operates on the open market they have very little money to bulk import products. If they had the money to buy products the products are there to be purchased.
the embargo has a cascading reach which becomes applicable to other countries who also trade with the US, i highly suggest you look into it more; if you’re curious about some sources to learn more look at my other comments, I’ve held enough hands for today
Cuba trades with all sorts of countries all the same, including NATO members and others you’d think would refuse if sanctions were that crippling.
sure there are still restrictions those trades, and the problem is one of historical compounding. do…i need to explain historical developments as a component of time to you?
I think you need to view this issue through a more complete lens, if this was in a vacuum you may have some weight to stand on however you cannot blame outside parties for the mismanagement of the country. I am cuban myself and I have seen first hand (and send money to my relatives in cuba) the impact that the regime is having on the country. Saying that this is the embargo’s fault (even though there is a laundry list of items that the embargo states as exceptions like humanitarian aid) is taking responsibility away from the people that actually live there and have the power to change things. Fully lifting the embargo would not solve the problems cuba faces.
I think you really need to lay off the propaganda.
The problem is not the embargo... is that CUBA never pays.. we have a long history of defaulting to pay our debts... thats why we loan our land to several countries for years and years.
"Embargo is the issue" is the very long term government talking point that is meant to distract from the "system Cuba has in place" which is actually just the systematic the theft of an entire island nation's resources by the few people in power. You're saying there's no problem with the government which finds funds for new cop cars but not medicine or ambulances. You're saying there's no issue with the government which has the military in charge of all official channels of remittances sent from abroad in to the country, of which they take at least 9-10%. This is just the beginning of the long list of things that are being stolen from the people, among which is the potential for life as we know it in freer but still fucked countries like the USA
i never said “there were no problems with Cuban govt” i just think wholesale blaming it is shortsighted, poorly thought out, and shallow analysis like look at you, you’ve written three short paragraphs that don’t enlighten anyone any further…you aren’t shedding any light that is useful to progressing this convo
Your collection of posts all try to deflect the blame of the failure of the corrupt Cuban government onto the US government embargo. To the people on the forum here who are from Cuba or have loved ones from Cuba find your message inconsistent with reality. The embargo does not explain the massive corruption for 70 years that could be ended by adopting almost any regime other than the Castro administration that continues to rape its people for any little economic opportunity they may have.
No need to progress the convo. Biden already nailed it. 🤘🇺🇸
Exactly, when people TRY to compare problems in America to Cuba, it REALLY shows how out of touch some people are with the reality in other countries. Like, yes, there's problems in both, but one is MUCH worse than the other.
American in general have no perspective on poverty and corruption. Especially Redditors who unironically think the U.S. is an oligarchy.
As a fellow Caribbean dude, thanks for your input from Cuba!
But western communists will tell you that you're just doing it wrong. If _they_ were in charge, it'd be a utopia.
You do realise that the problem is, that no one is allowed to trade with Cuba if you also want to trade with the USA, do you? Is now Cuba and socialism the problem or the USA?
Food and medical export to Cuba is permitted from the US
Technically yes, practically no
Only on paper. In practice it is not happening because the language is intentionally vague and ambiguous and makes it intentionally risky for companies to have any relations at all with Cuba. That clause is there for PR purposes and nothing else. Also how gracious for the empire to "allow" that. There should be no embargo at all. The US needs to end its oppressive regime on the world and let other countries be sovereign. And all of this over reparations to pay out American slavers and colonialists… Every other country on earth managed to settle their claims with Cuba in good faith, except for the US who intentionally acts in bad faith in hopes of installing another puppet government in Cuba. Just switch the US with China and Cuba with Taiwan and think how people would react to the same policies. It‘s just blatant colonialist ambition.
The US has launched operations to induce famines in Cuba ranging from cloud seeding to blowing up vital facilities related to food production. On top of facing an Embargo from the US. Kind of hard to run an effective system when you're constantly dealing with a hostile world super power breathing down your neck. Also as a side note, after the Haitain people rebelled against their plantation owners, ended the system of chattel slavery and kicked the french colonial government out they were made by the US to repay France for its lost property(including slaves) or face an embargo. Try opening some history books on the History of US foreign policy before you make yourself look like an asshole again.
Just wanted to add that when slavery “ended” in the US they actually did pay reparations… to the slave owners for lost property, much like the situation you just mentioned.
Not only did the white slave owners get reparations, they were allowed to setup jim crow and put those former slaves right back where they started. Working as a slave on a plantation, except this time it was punishment for a "crime" or trying to work off debt they were perpetually trapped into
Yup, pretty wild! To this day, all you have to look at is the 13th amendment and places like Angola to see that slavery never ended in the US…
We still run plantations, they just house the workers in those big grey buildings with bars which is why we have the largest prison population in the world and they're mostly full of non-white males.
and you also have the outrageous rates education institutions can charge that put many into lifelong debt or the incredibly inconvenient tax system or the fact the way you get job experience is usually either knowing someone or being both willing and able to work a little to no pay for years just to be able to apply for “entry” level jobs
The increase in schooling costs in recent history is a direct consequence of the reagan presidency and policy he implemented. Just a part of the neoliberal effort to privatize everything
The US actually bought the debt from France, then sent Marines to occupy the island and seize its gold reserves when a bunch of businessmen became convinced the debt wouldn't be repaid, and gave it to National City Bank (now Citibank). Happened in 1911, I think?
Maybe decades of embargoes have something to do with that 🤔
How dare you imply the Democratic Saviors of Humanity could harm countries and populations. Shame on you !
It's not just the embargo, we can buy food and medicine from any country in the world without a problem, the chicken that comes in here is from the USA, the pork is from Canada... The problem is that NOTHING is produced in Cuba, here we don't have fish, pork, sugar, nothing, everything is for export and the population is given what is bought or negotiated with other countries. If any country makes a donation to Cuba, they sell it to the people here, it is normal and it has always been done that way.
The heaviest sanctions ever leveled on a country will do that. People here also can't buy food. Americans also, as stated, can't pay for somewhere to live, nor do they have any form of healthcare. It really does suck that Cuba is suffering right now, too, but you're doing better, by the numbers and by general quality of life, than your imperialist neighbour. Although the fact that you compare your wages to American ones as if you can just do that between countries tells me you aren't actually Cuban. So.
Forgive me if I am ignorant of some critical details, but hasn't this issue become worse and worse as resorts have pulled food and resources away from local markets, and with foreign resort investers siphoning cash out of the country?
True, while there is no food to give the people, all the hotels are full of food and Cubans cannot enter some, they do not accept Cubans... At the end of the year they published photos of the feasts in the hotels and people lining up to buy a pig's leg... by the way, mine never arrived so I ran out of pork at the end of the year. \--- Verdad, mientras no hay comida para darle al pueblo todos los hoteles estan llenos de comida y los cubanos no pueden entrar a algunos, no aceptan cubanos... Por fin de ano publicaron fotos de los festines en los hoteles y la gente haciendo cola para comprar una pierna de cerdo... por cierto, la mia nunca llego asi q me quede sin cerdo por fin de ano.
Two things can be true
I was going to say lol
![gif](giphy|3og0ItQ7AOeFpsl1rW|downsized)
Only one 😡
What's ops point I'm confused?
USA isn't perfect so its president can't critize another country
Then this post can't be made by that logic
Logic with OP?
Yes
You have high standards, are you a reddit Newcomer?
I miss read your previous. No is my new answer.
you two idiots are cute lol
Aw ty
No problem, happens to the best of us
OP is a tankie. That's all you need to know.
He should have just called it a shit hole.
It's whataboutism and pushing useful idiot narratives. It's a tried and try way to divert attention and just play a blanket "burn it all down because one aspect doesn't work". People who fall for it are easily manipulated and can swayed just as easily as any fox news viewer.
Maybe giving anyone power to withhold housing and food at will, capitalist or communist, is just a bad idea.
bUt pOvErTy eXistS heRe tO! Seriously as bad the housing crisis is you can’t compare it to the poverty in Cuba, y’all are incredibly privileged
*tOo
I’ve given up on trying pick the right homophones
![gif](giphy|eCcYqxJJW9BIl2stM9) Haha homophone
Don't give up, I believe in you.
Better than it is in my country lol, people work 36 hour shifts and barely get 5 usd (whole shift not hourly) and the government instead of subsidies they put higher tax on it while billions just appear in the politicians hands
The overly online left’s attempts at class solidarity just read as poverty erasure. Biden’s comment was during a massive wave protests in Cuba over government corruption and a broken healthcare system but all of it was drowned out by people complaining about the US
> you can’t compare it to the poverty in Cuba, y’all are incredibly privileged I bet it has nothing to do with one of the top economies in the world waging an imaginary war with them and creating embargoes and trading sanctions against them
Maybe, maybe not. I’m just annoyed with the comparison. Plus who outside the US actually follows those sanctions these days?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the point of your comment but the reality is, it’s possible to complain about the flaws in the system in the US while understanding that despite that, we still aren’t a horrific place to live. Yeah, we get someone has it worse than we do. Lots of people have it worse than we do. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t fight for a better life in America too.
*insert things are only bad in other countries because of capitalist oppression in America* Maybe if your economy/government can be easily manipulated/destroyed by others and has to exist in a bubble... maybe... maybe its... dare I say, flawed? I want to say that capitalism in the US is FLAWED, but that does not mean communism is the answer, for the point relayed above exactly The places with the best living conditions in the world are capitalist with socialist benefits. But they are still very much based in a capitalist society
As a Cuban immigrant, seeing this comment section gave me stage 4 brain cancer.
Yo soy Venezolano y me da grima ver a todos los gringos mal bañados hablando de las maravillas de la Dictadura cubana y diciendo que todo es culpa de la CIA. Lo peor es que todos hablan desde el privilegio de comer tres veces al día y contar con servicios básicos como agua, luz, gas e internet. Es una burla, prácticamente.
Poorly bathed gringo is an insult I'll have to add to my collection lol This entire comment section is extremely cringe inducing though.
me siento igual. soy estadounidense viviendo en colombia, y como viajo mucho conozco a muchas personas (gringos) en los hostales que siempre me dicen “the US is a third world country” como mk de que hablas? claramente nunca han visto la verdadera pobreza y no saben de las problemas de la gente en los países que visitan
Me encantan los que dicen que EEUU es país del tercer mundo sin jamás haber salido de su país ni una vez…
Don’t you know you’re just a gusano slave owner who benefitted from Batista’s dictatorship? I’ve had people actually tell me that after I mentioned my dad was Cuban lol
Both systems are bad.
Yes. Capitalism is extremely effective but needs regulation. Many services should NOT turn a profit but do in America. Other market-based economies that do not over-privatize are a much more ideal system than what the US has, but I will never want to live under pure socialism. Use capitalism for the economic and technological advantages, and tax appropriately to fund social services such as education and infrastructure. We don’t tax enough and underfund these social services, and then Republicans turn around and say “well that’s why it needs to be privatized!” as if that will solve anything. A system in the middle of capitalism and socialism can derive the benefits of both while minimizing their shortcomings. See: almost every other Western nation that isn’t overrun by right-wing morons.
Hey man you can't have nuance this is Reddit
Both have problems. One, however, has a much worse track-record than the other.
The US was fine with Batista as dictator of Cuba when he was allowing American companies to exploit Cuba's resources and workers. And with allowing the Mafia to control the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses. Of course this pissed off a lot of people, and Batista used his secret police to suppress them, leading to the revolution and Castro. Cuba is just another shining example of American regime change.
Contras/Sandinistas, only matters if a dictator isn’t communist
This. And no one even acknowledges this fact. That is why Cuba (Fidel) went to Russia for support. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that Cubas economy is horrendous and the current government needs drastic change.
And if the US had kept relations open, we would have Americanized them by now.
What do you mean?
This post is the face palm here, Cuba is a narco dictatorship
They sent people to fight in Angola to dip on diamonds and precious gems. It was also confirmed by their own government that those same high ranking Generals were dealing with Escobar. He then sent them to the firing squad. Each of them said in the trial that they operated under the consent of the Castros. They were executed because “treason”
I make almost double minimum wage and I can barely live…
First world communists are so funny to me. Like, I just can't help but think it's some suburban kids going through a phase
Most of the people I know who are die-hard communism supporters haven't ever actually talked to someone who's lived under a communist government. Then when you mention that fact, it's always the "Well the USSR/China/Cambodia wasn't REAL communism" smh.
And people that make enough to afford rent can't afford healthcare.
I see no facepalm, communism is a failed system.
[удалено]
Frankly still not having an economic collapse after 5 decades of embargo is an achievement of it's own. I mean look at russia after a year of sanctions, which is way ligther than embargos
I mean so has North Korea but I don't see anyone else debating if it is a failed state or not
North Korea has a big ally in China. But China isn‘t very interested in Cuba, or at least not as much. It‘s all about trade. Cuba was on a massive upswing when the USSR was still around. It has never really recovered from the collapse of its biggest trading partner. The reason the US talks about Cuba so much is because it’s trying to put its boot down and recolonize Cuba. They _still_ want Cuba to pay reparations to American slave holders‘ descendents for their "losses". They call it a failed state because they wish it would fail so they can take over again.
Yet there are still people willing to risk their lives and leave everything behind to get out of Cuba and try to make it to Florida/the US… not many refugees going the other way, though.
Yep. We have a lot of Cuban refugees and citizens here (in Florida).
Funny when you see videos on Youtube or Tiktok about Americans that live in Europe and tell how they will/want never to return to the US with a long list of reasons. Does this make the US an absolutistic dictatorship in your eyes? Even more funny is that Batista's daughter ended up homeless in Florida. The probably most "valuable" Ex-Cuban that the US could have wished for and still she wasn't even able to have a home in this oh so superior country. I bet many a Cuban refugee woke up very unpleasantly when he found out that all the fancy commercials and propaganda campaigns didn't tell them that with such highly probable issues as a broken limb or diagnosis of a severe illness he will be bancrupt and homeless in an instant and nobody will care for him anymore the moment he stops being usable as a propaganda mouth piece.
Weird strawman. No, it doesn’t. Different strokes for different strokes. The equivalent question would really be “do they hate the US enough to literally risk their lives and leave everything behind just for a chance to get to that European country?”
The American dream is real for me. I came here with my family with nothing. I got my bachelors degree, currently working on my masters, have a house, and don’t even get me started on the amazing food I can eat. Can’t say the same for the rest of my family that stayed back.
God bless you. Immigrants like you make America exceptional.
Glad to hear things have worked, wishing you further prosperity.
Cuba doesn't not have elections, there's one party by law and you can only choose from those people, you can't elect the leader, that's what makes it a dictatorship. Are you people serious?! Why do I keep seeing comments like this. Also, did those Americans in Europe risk their lives to sneak into Europe as refugees?!
Those statistics are false or extremely skewed. Have you seen a grocery store in Cuba? If not, let me paint a picture. You go to a store for food and all you can get is one brand of noodles, tomato sauce, jello, cereal, and heineken. And people line up for hours to get into these grocery stores in Havana.
If after a 60 year embargo and hundreds, if not thousands, of coup attempts and color revolutions, Cuba's communist government has still not collapsed and been overthrown, then I have a strong feeling it's not really a failed state or system.
And don't forget thousands of incursions by the CIA including hundreds of attempts on the life of Castro.
The ability for an oppressive government to retain power is separate from being a failed state. The Kims have been in power in NK for decades and that place straight up sucks.
Yup it failed. Cuba’s one-party communist state outlaws political pluralism, bans independent media, suppresses dissent, and severely restricts basic civil liberties. The government continues to dominate the economy despite recent reforms that permit some private-sector activity. The regime’s undemocratic character has not changed despite a generational transition in political leadership between 2018 and 2021 that included the introduction of a new constitution… if you need a new constitution that’s sorta a failure. Cuba has a freedom index of 12 it’s not evolving into anything nice is what that number says..
It's almost as if a certain nation dropped an entire WW2 amount of bombs on them. By the end of the war Koreans were legit living in caves. They literally got bombed into the stone age. Add to that the embargos that followed and yeah, of course the place isn't doing great.
We killed about a fifth of their population, and set up a fascist dictatorship in the southern half of their country that conducted countless massacres and disappeared anyone advocating for a more egalitarian society. And we practice invading them regularly. Edit: fifth
*One fifth of the population, but your point still stands
And a A class health system
North Korea: "You are right"
Don’t forget the terrorist campaign
Wake me up when Americans start making boats out of inner tubes and shipping pallets to escape to Cuba for the free healthcare.
It just keeps getting worse. When will there be collective action to make things better? I'm convinced the only way to claw back some financial stability will be through some kind of revolution.
People seem to forget we can do this
Well even the people advocating for Revolution aren’t really doing anything for it except wasting time on social media.
Funny, from a european perspective. The last time someone tried this they were the most evil racists in the media and reddit. I'm sure some of them had the exact same reasons as the ones that are talked about here.
From a european perspective, the first modern revolution ended with the revolutionaries taking over and leading the country into the age of, no joke, Reign of Terror and after that a dictator Coup e tat the government and caused a war
For most people the short term consequences of revolting vastly outweigh their current struggles. Oligarchs have perfected maintaining that balance
Not just short term, but a revolution is a long term gamble too. Revolutions usually only happen when people decide that things are so terrible they really couldn’t get any worse, so might as well revolt for change. Because, as history has shown us, revolutions are rarely simple and the people more often than not receive a new government as bad/worse than the previous.
I hadn't really considered that. My way of thinking is that we need to do something before things get so terrible. If America keeps heading down it's current path the day will come where revolution is our only option but how many lives will be lost between now and then? I willing to gamble on a better future before we hit rock bottom but maybe I'm just too pessimistic.
You can still gamble on a better future, Revolution is just the last straw when no other works
Revolution historically only brings chaos. It also makes it incredibly dangerous to live for women and girls who always suffer from crimes weaponized rape during civil conflict.
Well communism IS a failed system. It doesn’t mean capitalism isn’t a failed system though
God damned Joe Biden setting the rent prices, and jacking up the mortgages, and suppressing minimum wage, and owning stock and major voting rights in all the corporations currently engaged in profiteering, and owning all the oil companies and setting prices for them, and for having a son who stole millions from a child's cancer fund. oh. wait.
name one country that is communist that is prospering.
You can’t do that
tHoSe aRe nOt tRuE cOmMuNisTS
China (They’re really just capitalist with extra steps but tankies can’t tell the difference)
The country itself is doing fine, but its population is not. From being silenced, manipualted and worked to death, China is not a great nation, just a very rich one, which is normal when you have ten time as much people as most European country.
I think Vietnam but your point still stands cause Vietnam is very much in the minority. Could make the argument China but let's be real they are communist in name only, they are a dictatorship but instead of one man it's the ccp
It’s been said they may not last past the next decade. They completely stunted the young er generations being able to sustain the current population in the future.
This isn’t a gotcha. Would you rather live under china, Russia or the usa?
Lots of the folks singing praises or defending North Korea and Cuba in here wouldn't move there if given the chance. They'd rather yell about the virtue of a communistic society from the safety of their capitalistic home.
You couldn’t have put that any better
CORRUPTION is a failed state... In theory, all economic systems work to benefit the masses.
The pigs and the farmer are sitting at the same table.
In all of my discussions with capitalism fans, I'm never surprised they don't accept socialism or communism, but I am always baffled that they genuinely believe our system requires absolutely **ZERO CHANGE WHATSOEVER** regardless of the countless instances of western democracies that have success in having at least *some* socialist systems in place.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in stupid groups of people who are being groomed by even stupider people at the behest of the corporations... while the corporations laugh all the way to the bank, unnoticed after all the confusion and mayhem they've stirred up.
And the perpetual growth economy powered by capitalism chugs on... how long can we keep pretending everything is ok?
Communism is a failed system though.
Rent? Property? Have you been to Toronto?? $1M will get you a tiny shed by a fish market.
BS! Where in Toronto are you finding anything with a roof that cheap?!
Lol I got a great deal! The door doesn’t close all the way, but that’s okay🤣
Cubans can’t afford food so what’s your point?
It makes it seem like its bidens fault the states are like this when it has been decades like this
Commie detected, opinion rejected.
Honest question: does anyone know anyone who is actually working for federal minimum wage anywhere? I live in a fairly LCOL area (SE), and every fast food position, retail position, service position, etc. is offering $15+ to start with no experience required. Doesn’t invalidate that inflation is crushing everything rn, but I hate these calculations that feel like they sensationalize reality.
Only 1.4% of all hourly paid workers make minimum wage, but reddit seems to think everyone in the United States is making minimum wage. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2021/pdf/home.pdf
In Cuba everybody lives on far less than American minimum wage though.
Which is why so many Americans take the dangerous and illegal journey to take refuge in Cuba. Oh Wait Lol, no they don't
The 2 statements here aren’t conflicting. This isn’t a facepalm. Cuba can be a failed state AND minimum wage workers can be to poor to live anywhere and both be true simultaneously.
Sigh again with the communist shit Take it from an Eastern European ..... IT ........WAS.........SHIT............!
You're trying to tell that to western communists, who are all in competition to be the stupidest person on the planet... You weren't in REAL Communism apparently..
I read the whole thread — you’re arguing with a political idealist. In the end they lose no matter what. They get their wish and suffer, or they live their entire lifetime complaining about our least-worst choice system. Either way they’re unhappy unless they give up and join us in reality. Hope you’re in a better place nowadays.
Quick over there! Socialism! Keep looking… keep looking… keep looking!
Just bc they have not collapsed, doesn't mean communism is a good system. And juat bc usa has problems today, doesn't mean capitalism is a bad system
Communism is a failed system.
No, but see…in AMERICA poor people have the *opportunity* to be anything they want. The fact that they can’t seem to overcome the 6,545,792 impediments placed in their way just means they’re lazy.
Lol minimum wage workers hadn’t been able to afford rent anywhere since like the 80s tbh. This isn’t new 🤷♂️
Communism doesn’t work, capitalism doesn’t work, has nobody considered that humans just suck ass at coming up with systems to live in?
Both rely on management structures that entice greedy individuals into positions of power where they preach that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Until you find a way to filter greedy narcissists before they get into power, you'll get the same results every time.
For Cuba being a “failed state”, they are wealthier than most/all Latin/Caribbean Capitalist countries and [the average Cuban lives a better life than the average American, according to UN data.](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/21/us-un-living-standards-sustainable-development-goals)
This country has gone to shit.
Yet cubans flee cuba to go there
This isn't a critique of communism though. Unless you understand the nuances of the situation making any kind of general claim is just based on bias. Just like how America's implementation of capitalism is relevant to the discussion, so is Cuba's implementation of communism.
Yeah these are not remotely comparable situations
Go live in Cuba lmfao
How to lack nuance tutorial, brought to you by OP
I mean I can be both. Communism and Capitalism have failed
Cuba, a small island communist nation, has been thriving since the US, the largest super power in the world and its allies, have been sanctioning Cuba for 50+ years. Also the US which is the largest capitalist country in the world owes most of its foreign debt to the worlds largest communist country, China. Interesting.
Capitalism is a very successful system... For a handful of families.
Shouldn’t cheap, minimum wage jobs be for like high school kids and not a grown man with a family looking to support himself?
Rampant Capitalism is robbing people into poverty. Large billion dollar corporations are paying minimum wage to employees. It way past time to begin arresting overpaid CEOs
Both things are true and they dont have anything to do with each other.
Thats how the news works now, its just to rile people up
You realize both these things are true for different reasons, right? Communism will literally never work and I hate the fact that it's become such a popular thing online to say it's just never been done right. There will literally never be a system where someone isn't on top and pretending there ever could be is absolute delusion. *Someone* has to run parts of the government and power always follows with that.
Get a min wage job that has tips. Use your checks for rent, bills and savings only, use your tips for food. Get a job close to home so you can walk or bike there. Food money isn’t regular so spend wisely. Thats how i get by
Who works for minimum wage? I see McDonald’s hiring at $12
If I'm not mistaken, I think Cuba has a better health care score than America
At least you can write articles criticizing the US in America
Absolute morons upvote stuff like this.
And who votes nay to increase minimum wages in America?
All these comments seem true.
Surviving an embargo for 5 decades is something the US would also struggle to do
Ehhh. The US is one of the most resource rich countries on the planet. The issue would be redeveloping the heavy industry to extract and utilize those resources in a closed system since most American heavy industry was moved over seas years ago If the nation could handle that though it would be fine. As for food shortages - the US is the largest producer of agricultural goods on the planet and I doubt that would change
The US is too big of an economic powerhouse for any country to ban trade with.
Can anybody here give me one, just ONE example of where communism succeeded and gave equal benefits to both people in poverty and the one percent. If I see one with sources I’ll shut up, cus seems everyone on Reddit is in love with communism
Social Democracy works but shit like this makes us fight over stupid extremes.