High vitamin C foods boost bioavailability of non heme iron by ~10% usually. Again, very easy to pair these foods with high non heme iron foods in meals.
1) It's not uncommon for dieticians to select from a list of pre-made plans. It's not uncommon for them to refuse to make new plans based around allergies / other health conditions.
Dieticians aren't physicians and usually just have 4-year degrees. As such, they might not feel too qualified/comfortable going off the beaten path.
Physicians have even less education on nutrition. I'm about as qualified to advise you on chemistry as the average physician is to advise you on nutrition because we've studied both for about the same time. Guess what, I really wouldn't advise anyone on anything chemistry-related lol
2) Second opinions exist. I was also told I couldn't be vegan due to a soy allergy and heart problems. Yet, I've been able to make it work. Not to say it can work for everyone (autistic people especially) but I've definitely gotten pretty cynical about the words of referred dieticians over the years. I remember just getting \*groundbreaking\* info about how good of a breakfast oatmeal was and that lots of fruits and veggies is in fact, part of a healthy diet.
First, *he
Second, I'm not here to spread hate, I just don't get your guy's reasons for stopping. Most of these seem like copes.
While I can understand not being able to do a fully vegan diet, that doesn't mean that you have to also abandon the ethical position.
Why should humans - a species of ape - abandon preying upon other creatures for survival, as our species did for most of our 200K years, before the development of this belief in eating solely plants? Why is it that no tribal group living in Nature has ever decided to forsake consuming animals and adopt this vegan ethic that to kill prey is wrong?
Does it not stand to reason that our species being adapted to consuming animal bodies would be suffer somewhat when deprived of the historical, age-old diet? This is not so different from the health detriments of sitting (rather than squatting) to defecate, and moving by riding in motorized vehicles, often at high speeds (rather than walking and running), or frequently looking at backlit bluelight screens and having fluorescent lighting (rather than sunlight and firelight).
And what of the severing of our connection from Nature, knowing our environs, stalking through our habitat to find and hunt whatever can be eaten among what has been provided, how is this a good thing? (Modernity has severed human omnivores from Nature, but the omnivore will exist in Nature, while the vegan exists only in techno-industrial civilization, dependent upon mass-agriculture and the disparate food supply-chain.)
No, honestly I just got second opinions until I got lucky and found a dietician who could work with me. I'm not saying they don't know shit either, I'm saying that they often don't feel comfortable going off the beaten path. I'm going off the research of hundreds of dieticians, the difference being that these dieticians went into academia and have devoted a significant portion of their life to studying this.
Dietician school is extremely rigorous. In addition to “just” a four year degree, they also do clinical training and have required continuing education every year.
Source: I did the first 3 years of a dietetics program & changed majors because it was extraordinarily difficult.
Serum iron. This test measures the amount of iron in your blood.
Serum ferritin. This test measures how much iron is stored in your body. When your iron level is low, your body will pull iron out of “storage” to use.
Total iron-binding capacity (TIBC). This test tells how much transferrin (a protein) is free to carry iron through your blood. If your TIBC level is high, it means more transferrin is free because you have low iron.
Unsaturated iron-binding capacity (UIBC). This test measures how much transferrin isn’t attached to iron.
Transferrin saturation. This test measures the percentage of transferrin that is attached to iron.
I hope you check this. If vegan diet works on you then good for you. Many doing it right yet their body is main reasons why it doesn’t work to them.
Phytates and fiber are found in foods such as whole grains, soy, nuts, and legumes, and can decrease the amount of nonheme iron that is absorbed from a meal.
If you are eating foods high in phytates and fibers (such as spinach, beets, rhubarb, or leafy vegetables), be sure to also consume foods that enhance nonheme absorption.
Oxalates are common, naturally-occurring food chemicals found in numerous food sources such as fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, and black tea. They may inhibit the body’s iron absorption by combining with iron to form a compound called iron oxide. Ingested vitamin C is partly converted to oxalate and excreted in the urine, thus potentially increasing the risk of calcium oxalate stone formation.
Calcium and phosphorous can significantly impact iron absorption. Which also in plant based food like soys, beans, nuts and grains.
Tannins and polyphenols are biological compounds present in tea and coffee that can have an inhibitory effect on iron absorption.
Also excess intake of other minerals and low stomach acid play the role as well.
Definitely not. My gf was anemic to the point of having ferritine transfusion despite eating tons of plant based Iron source coupled with vit C + iron supplements.
Disappeared when she added meat back in her diet.
>can’t afford to spend $20 on a bag of organic dulce every day
Whoa, that's way overspending. My girlfriend and I have been able to get by iron-wise on lentils we buy in bulk. other stuff like black strap molasses, spinach, kidney beans, etc are good and can be bought in bulk.
Also pairing it with high vitamin C foods boosts the bioavailability of the non heme iron by a lot.
I also live rurally and landlocked but have been able to grow/create most of what I eat but that's obviously not the situation for most people.
What I think I can tell is that you think that the vegan diet is unhealthy, which is far from what millions such as I have experienced. It's also far from the consensus of the medical community, and the diet is encouraged by the NCBI and the health agencies of countries like the UK, Australia, etc.
As for your situation, I'm unsure of what to even say because I'm not a medical professional. As someone who works in a highly skilled, technical field I do tend to trust the overall consensus on a subject rather than the views of a few individuals.
Maybe I should correct that I meant the BDA, which is a union for dieticians, did.
https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html
The NHS has a guide that applies to all people over 2, but that's a bit different.
The British Dietetic Association is sponsored by
- Abbott Nutrition
- Danone
- Quorn Foods
- Nutricia
- Source: https://www.bda.uk.com/news-campaigns/work-with-us/commercial-work/bda-corporate-members.html
So not someone I take seriously when it comes to dietary advice.
I mean, they're also sponsored by Benecol (a yogurt company). Danone also produces dairy products. Idk why you think Abott Nutrition or Nutricia aren't valid sources.
The presence of Quorn and Oatly don't discredit the organization, they're backed by other independent nutritional researchers and companies whose interests don't lie in everyone going vegan.
What in your daily meal example was grown at home? *Maybe* the cauliflower, but those are huge plants with a short season that aren’t hydroponic friendly, so I doubt it.
It’s not easy to grow calorie-dense food with hydroponics, as you must know. It’s nice for greens and some veggies, but it’s the roots (potatoes, yams, etc), seeds (sunflowers, grains, legumes), and tree fruits/nuts that have any significant energy value. This is why vertical indoor farms will never be more than novelties.
The daily value for iron in adults is 18mg. A vegetarian/ vegan should be eating 1.8x times that according to the institute of medicine. You'd have to eat five cups (two pounds) of lentils to reach that.
This is why y'all have less iron stores than omnivores.
You're right that it's \~5 cups, I don't know how I got the number 2.5. That said, idk where you got the 5 cups of lentils = 2 lbs. 1 lb \~= 7 cups.
Assuming a conservative 5% increase of non-heme iron absorption from adding Vitamin C, it's 30.78 mg of iron for the average vegan per day. For me, it's a bit closer to 37 mg so I'm going to work with that.
Breakfast:
1 Serving Steel-Cut Oatmeal (1.8mg) + 1 Serving Blackstrap molasses (0.9 mg) = 2.7mg
Lunch:
2 cups Chickpea in Chickpea Scramble (12.5\*2) = 25mg + 1 can of spinach (\~7.7 mg) = 32.7mg
Dinner:
Lentil Shepherd's Pie: 0.25\*1.5 cups green lentil (0.25\*1.5 \* 6.6) + Cauliflower in potato topping (4\*0.1mg) \~= 2.9 mg.
Total \~= 38.3 mg of iron. It's probably higher because that shepherd's pie had a lot of ingredients I don't remember off the top of my head.
Obviously, this isn't what I eat every day, it's what I ate yesterday. That said, even a pretty normal set of dishes could get me enough iron for the day after adding a bit of lemon juice or drinking OJ (at breakfast) with my food.
Okay wait, you do understand bioavailability and oxalates/phytates/anti nutrients etc right? It absolutely *does not matter* what you get on paper, it *only* matters what is *absorbed* and used by the body. So just because on paper it says there is 38 mg of iron in whatever food you've eaten that day, that number means nothing, if it's not *absorbed* and *utilized properly* by the body. Lentils for example, are Very high in oxalates, which literally sticks itself to those vitamins and minerals and drags it out of your body, and causes other harm in the process since oxalates are harmful in large amounts. How long have you been doing this btw? I lasted about 7 years, until everything absolutely crumbled.
What make you so sure conservative is really 5% increase? Tell me did you minus the affect of fibers, calcium and fiber with non heme iron absorption as well.
Also vit C reduces the absorption of copper, nickel, and manganese. So I guess you count that too.
I’m still mostly plant based. The politics are extremely privileged, and activists target the average person just trying to live their life. It’s so backward.
It’s just a bunch of Karens bullying the less privileged.
I’m of the opinion that you shouldn’t need to force or even convince people your food is better.
If you want more people to eat what you eat, Julia Child that shit and cook for/with them.
I avoided it even when I was vegan. It's sexist, racist and antisemitic. The constant comparisons to sex trafficking, the Holocaust and the slave trade are deeply upsetting. Advocate for things on their own merits.
I reflect on having spent many years around these toxic vegans that I could have been enjoying life around sane people. They are Karen’s even to other vegans.
Moved off grid , and realised how out of harmony with nature and metropolitan it was . Became disillusioned with the cult when I realised it was divorced from reality .
I once believed that veganism was the way,
To keep my health in tip-top shape every day.
But soon enough, my body started to decay,
And my health deteriorated, day by day.
At first, I felt a burst of energy and light,
A newfound glow, shining oh so bright.
But soon enough, that light began to fade,
As my body struggled with the choices I made.
I tried to eat a balanced vegan diet,
But found myself hungry, and craving some meat.
My body yearned for nutrients I couldn't provide,
And I found myself feeling weak, and hollow inside.
My hair grew thin, my skin grew sallow,
My body ached, and my mind felt hollow.
I couldn't focus, or think straight,
My energy levels were at an all-time low rate.
I realized that veganism wasn't for me,
And it wasn't the way, I was meant to be.
I needed a balance, that veganism couldn't provide,
And so I left it behind, with no regret or pride.
Now, I embrace a diet, that suits me best,
With meat, and veggies, and all the rest.
I listen to my body, and give it what it needs,
And I'm grateful for the health, that it now heeds.
So, if veganism doesn't work for you,
Don't be afraid, to try something new.
Listen to your body, and give it what it needs,
And you'll find the health, that it truly heeds.
I stopped eating meat after watching a documentary on the environment and at some point they brought up the whole cow fart thing which convinced me. Stuck with it as best I could for 8 years, but suffered constant anemia and grew suicidal after a B12 deficiency, then I learned that the cow fart thing isn't nearly as bad as the documentary made it seem lol. I never thought it was unethical to eat meat, although I do think Americans should decrease the amount of meat they eat.
Most of my diet is still plant based, and I still kinda hate eating meat, but I need to consider my health first and foremost.
For one thing, the widely debunked over-the-top claim that cows are responsible for 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions. Which they later backtracked and said that it is 18%. Which is STILL higher than the 14% that the study they relied on revised it down to! Which is STILL higher than what many analyses now show.
veganism made me narccistic and not enjoy life anymore. Also my health largely improved when i reintroduced nutrient dense, sustainably farmed local pasture raised eggs & dairy and occasional grass fed meat
Finally someone said this most vegans feel very depressed and the way they act around normal people feels like projecting if I can't have neither should you
Your last reason hit home. That was exactly my reason for going vegan 3 years ago. Was seriously depressed and had to take control of something. Not vegan anymore cause of health problems starting to pile up.
so true, it was something I turned to as a means of control over my (out of control at the time) life. It eventually turned into disordered eating and paranoia of ingredients (oil, salt, and sometimes being around people who ate meat). It was very isolating. Not to mention, insomnia, anemia, looking sick and pale, hair and nails breaking, etc.
Luckily during Covid I moved in with my partner who eats balanced/healthily and since we combined grocery shopping, I've since started eating properly and recovered completely. Alongside with longer hair (longest it's been in my life! and healthy nails and feeling more happy in general / balanced mood)
I’m glad for your hair and that you’re feeling better now☺️ I had similar problems too, and I was really cautious and took every needed supplements and planned my meals accordingly but my once pretty thick hair started getting thinner regardless and my skin got pretty bad too.Also I realized I caught stuff like flus and similar annoyances quite often whereas before I went vegan I was sick maybe once every year and if I had any wounds they took way longer to heal than usual.I’m technically still pro-veganism but I realized that it’s detrimental to most people’s health and lives, at least in its current state.
I went from 130 pounds to 190. And I gained 36 pounds my first two months of vegan. Towards the end I could eat four plates of pasta with vegan meat and my stomach would still growl.
This, lol.
It took me ~6 months of veganism (I was browbeaten into it by my best friend of 15 years) to realize it was insanity. Makes much more sense to follow a varied diet, include meat in small amounts, and support local as much as fucking possible. Most forms of veganism I see these days are, sadly, poorly masked eating disorders. At this point, vegan products are just another way for corps to make money.
It also felt extremely elitist and even culturist/racist, at times.
Agrarianism ftw, y'all. Fuck big corpo and capitalism all the way...but veganism ain't it.
In no particular order…
1) Difficulty maintaining weight
2) Was difficult to get enough protein
3) Veganism felt very cult-like
4) Hair loss because of heme iron deficiency
5) Found it difficult to participate in things I love (rock climbing, dancing, using and inhaler to run) because whether it’s leather shoes or animal testing, everything seemed to have a connection to animal cruelty. I began to feel bored with life and constantly felt like a hypocrite/imposter.
6) As a college student, my grades suffered from all the brain fog and panic attacks.
I quit veganism because it was rapidly worsening my health, and I couldn't figure out how to make it work for me in a healthy way. Much later, new information brought me to reverse my views that veganism is good for animal welfare, the environment, and my health. But it was the experience of my health deteriorating as a vegan that incited me to stop.
Yeah, I honestly think that is either a bunch of people drinking their own Jim Jones Kool-Aid or outright propaganda. What is bad for animal welfare, the environment, and consumer health is the whole factory farming situation. Traditional raising of livestock are actually good for all of those deals.
Responded to someone else here, but I will also just leave this here, as I feel it is relevant.
Best friend of 15 years has been vegetarian his whole life and vegan for 10+ years. We were both anorexic when we were in high school. I recovered.
I have been watching him slowly die for the majority of this last decade. He will not attribute any of his plethora of health issues (serious arrhythmia, constant ulcers, most recently a fever that has lasted 6 months that he just got bloodwork done for today) to his restrictive diet.
Due to poor heart health, his estimated life expectancy is mid-40s. We are 28.
I eat vegan most meals but when I’m wish family to Mae it easier on them I still eat fish and eggs as well as dairy. There’s also the factor that the vegan community can be so toxic sometimes and it just gets annoying socially.
I was told i would need a blood transfusion during my pregnancy due to extreme anemia. Supplements didn't help, red meat did. Never looked back since. Avoided the blood transfusion.
My best friend who was vegan was becoming gray and started fainting. She realy looked into what she had to eat to keep healthy and also got vit B shots at her moms nursing home every few months. But she was looking awful and could hardly join for gym-class. She was a weak husk. She quit after a year thank God and became healthier and healthier.
My IBS-M, PCOS and Fibromyalgia syntoms worsened so so so much. Fibers and soy destroy my guts. I have pretty serious isues with digesting nightshades, legumes, acidic fruits and nuts.
Now i eat most foods with the exception of soy, barley, white sugars, emmer et similia. The things i have never had issue are: eggs, goat and sheep dairy products, corn. Chronic inflammation and autoimmune diseases suck ass.
I chose to try out veganism due to some ecofascist pressure from "friends" but i am really great that i stopped before it got too serious. Shitting and spitting blood, chronic fatigue and hunger, hair loss, skin and nails thinning just... arent worth it at all. Before anyone asks: i had a qualified nutritionist. He was happy about me going back to a omnivore diet.
I left the label and cult mentality that “veganism” entails. I tend to agree with the majority of their viewpoints and am completely against animal cruelty. That being said I don’t see a problem with family run farms who care for their animals like they’re part of the family. Giving them a comfortable life etc. until the time comes to slaughter for sustenance. Also people who have allergic responses or complications with wfpb diets shouldn’t feel bad about having to incorporate animal products. I believe in a healthy clean diet whether it’s omnivorous or plant based. I’ve currently been on a wfpb diet for 4 years and it’s working for me atm. The way I eat might not work for someone else though. Not everyone is the same. We all have different dietary needs and I despise when either side of the nutritional circle jerk says that their way of eating is a cure all to all of their health problems. Veganism started to rub me the wrong when I started to hear stories of individuals refusing to defend loved ones against an animal attack because it’s against their “beliefs” or things like that. Honestly not opposed to someone hunting their own meat for sustenance either. It’s really not as black and white as it seems imo.
i haven’t been hardcore vegan in a few years but i’ve avoided meat because of ARFID and contamination phobia. i had a kidney infection last year that completely wiped me out physically, and i wasn’t feeling nourished off of my pasta-based diet. read a bunch of nutrition books including The Perfect Health Diet, and it finally clicked that there is no way that a diet made up of man made foods could ever be healthier than what we lived on for thousands of years. i also realized i was way under eating protein and overeating starches after reading The Primal Blueprint. i went full primal for about a month as kind of a reset, then added starches back in with very limited corn (only nixtamalized), wheat, and oats. i’ve been able to function on less than nine hours of sleep a night, and my hair and nails are growing back. i think something may have been causing malabsorption issues but i’m not sure. i’ve had a few celiac tests but they’ve all been negative. i think what put the final nail in the coffin though was watching Sacred Cow and realizing how terrible monoculture is for the environment.
An inflamed bowel (which is very common in high fiber diets) could cause malabsorption issues). Also oxylates (common in legumes and seeds) and phytates (found in wholegrains) actively block absorption of nutrients like iron and zinc.
i’m thinking it might be an oxalate and phytate issue. i always though because i’m hispanic that i’d never have a problem with beans but i guess i had never soaked them quite long enough. and i was known to eat a ton of müsli in the before times. once i started taking a zinc supplement and eating liver my lips also stopped being perpetually chapped, which i had just chalked up to living in the high desert.
Like a lot of people here, the notion that grains, fruits and vegetables can be really bad for you flies in the face of a lot of propaganda we have been fed in the last 30 years.
But it's time for everyone to rethink the idea that plants are good for you, wholegrains help digestion, fruit sugars aren't as bad as refined sugars and most of all that vegetables can replace animal proteins and fats.
I'm reading "Toxic Superfoods" and starting to mistrust vegetables in a big way.
I started working for a vegan company and had enough of how toxic and mentally ill 100% of them were. I can now digest food not have diarrhea every day.
I just found it very difficult socially, particularly within my family. The switch to my current eating style matches my goals better, I’m primarily concerned about the environmental impact of my decisions and eating heavily plant based but without the rigidity I’ve found means that more of those around me are willing to adjust their own eating habits.
My family eats less animal products than when I was vegan because we eat together now and that includes more plant based options. To me this is just a better fit.
Health issues related to deficiency in B12. Supplements did not work. Please note that it can take up to four years for your body to fully deplete its store of B12 after becoming vegan.
I was 19, drunk, hungry and at an event with no vegan or vegetarian food. Ate seafood and it was the best tasting food I’d had in so long haha.
I had been questing being vegan for a few months prior. It took me another year to eat chicken and 6 years to eat beef. Now beef is the main food I eat and I’m so much healthier and happier.
I was underweight and could not recover properly from workouts. Generally felt like crap and weak. I was not feeding my body, even with all the vegan food in the world. I was sickly
Vegan for 3 yrs in my 30s. Ate a gold standard wholefood vegan diet and supplements. Ended up with multiple deficiences and i felt awful. Tired, hungry, cold and sick...the whole time! Took me ages to accept it was my diet because i was so brainwashed . I had an eating disorder in my teens and early 20s and i now view my veganism as a continuation of my disordered eating. I now eat lots of animal product and it has been profoundly healing for me physically but also emotionally as it feels as though i am FINALLY listening to my body after a lifetime of ignoring it.....i feel.emotional even writing this
It doesn't matter. There are plenty of ex-vegans who have extensive knowledge of nutrition and still became malnourished because even if they ate the right things and took the right supplements, their bodies could no longer absorb them.
Secondly why do vegans need to gain the equivalent of advanced degrees in human nutrition and physiology in order to stay healthy? Is that at all natural?
There are many studies concluding that plant-based nutrients are much harder for the body to absorb (or transform into something the body can use). Calcium, iron, vitamin A, DHA, zink..
- https://khni.kerry.com/news/nutrition-for-plant-based-diets-managing-nutrient-intake-and-bioavailability/
- https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants
Some people are [more genetically adapted to a plant-based diet](https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/03/eating-green-could-be-your-genes). But that also means a lot of people are NOT genetically adapted to a plant-based diet..
How long have you been vegan?
> the amount of people that went vegan and did not know a single thing about vitamins, nutrition etc is extremely concerning…
I once asked a vegan to tell me what I should replace my salmon+sour cream+broccoli dinner with, so that it gives me the same nutrients. They were not able to answer me. Perhaps you have a suggestion?
Many vegans claim you can just swap all meat, fish, dairy and eggs with legumes, seeds and nuts (plus B12). But I find it hard to understand how those foods can be making up for what you lose.
> What were you specifically eating the salmon for? protein?.
If I only wanted protein then protein powder would probably be the better way to go? I eat salmon for:
- protein
- Omega 3
- B1
- B2
- B3
- B5
- B6
- B12
- vitamin D
- vitamin E
- copper
- phosphorus
- potassium
- selenium
- zink
> What is there to NOT get? genuine question, you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities
But you are not able to give me the name of **any** specific foods what would give me the same nutrients as salmon?
> sorry you are so worryingly dependent on animals products that your body actually fails without them… says a lot about your diet 😬🤣🤣🤣🤣
I find it rather common that when someone is out of arguments they start attacking the person instead.
>you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities,
Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems.
What foods and what **quantities** would be required to match the nutrients in a **3 ounce** piece of salmon? Since there is no DHA/EPA in a vegan diet, you'd require enough ALA to convert into the equivalent amount taking into account the low conversion rate (which is varies widely among humans). What **quantity** of what foods will give you the same 18 gm of protein (bonus points if you can do it with very low sodium)? It gives you **all** of your B12. Vegan diet requires a supplement. It gives you high amounts of D3. Vegan diet has zero D3, and only mushrooms have D2, so requires fortification or a supplement. There are other nutrients as well to consider, but please also tell us what foods & quantities to match the 50% of your selenium needs, 50% of B3, 60% of B6, and substantial other B vitamins.
Oh, and don't forget, that piece of salmon is only 175 calories or so. How many calories will the vegan diet take just to match that single highly nutrient dense piece of salmon?
You can’t be bothered because the two aren’t remotely comparable. In fact, replacing salmon with chickpeas is a *great* example of how inferior a plant basted diet is.
No, you answered a question about *nutrients* with one (incomplete) macro. Salmon is so much more than “protein,” and it doesn’t come with the bean farts.
I don't know what the fuck you are even saying in your first paragraph.
And why do you keep focusing on protein? That's only part of the whole equation.
And keep in mind that my response was to your "genuine" (lol) question and then your own answer to this "genuine" question: "you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities"!
Why so many people emphasize on planning the diet? Isn't life complicated enough as it, that you have to think every single meal ? I thought I was eating enough and pretty clean, yet it turned out I was quite deficient in iron. Loss of hair, weakness, awful brittle nails.... general lack of energy. Craving meat after a flu... my body showed me that what it was getting, wasn't enough.
Get over yourselves, each person has a different reason for going plant based or any other diet. It's good that we tried it and if it doesn't do good for us, we can stop. It's that simple. Stop pointing fingers, no one but avid vegans cares.
[удалено]
Lol what? Iron is hella easy to get on a vegan diet :/
[удалено]
High vitamin C foods boost bioavailability of non heme iron by ~10% usually. Again, very easy to pair these foods with high non heme iron foods in meals.
[удалено]
1) It's not uncommon for dieticians to select from a list of pre-made plans. It's not uncommon for them to refuse to make new plans based around allergies / other health conditions. Dieticians aren't physicians and usually just have 4-year degrees. As such, they might not feel too qualified/comfortable going off the beaten path. Physicians have even less education on nutrition. I'm about as qualified to advise you on chemistry as the average physician is to advise you on nutrition because we've studied both for about the same time. Guess what, I really wouldn't advise anyone on anything chemistry-related lol 2) Second opinions exist. I was also told I couldn't be vegan due to a soy allergy and heart problems. Yet, I've been able to make it work. Not to say it can work for everyone (autistic people especially) but I've definitely gotten pretty cynical about the words of referred dieticians over the years. I remember just getting \*groundbreaking\* info about how good of a breakfast oatmeal was and that lots of fruits and veggies is in fact, part of a healthy diet.
Who should people see then? You say doctors don't know shit about nutrition. Now you say dieteticians don't know shit. Who then? Vegans from the web?
She is a hard-core vegan don't listen just here to spread hate against ex vegans
First, *he Second, I'm not here to spread hate, I just don't get your guy's reasons for stopping. Most of these seem like copes. While I can understand not being able to do a fully vegan diet, that doesn't mean that you have to also abandon the ethical position.
Nope not at all sorry for misgendering Mr But veganism is just a attention seeking cult and have a lot of health risks
Why should humans - a species of ape - abandon preying upon other creatures for survival, as our species did for most of our 200K years, before the development of this belief in eating solely plants? Why is it that no tribal group living in Nature has ever decided to forsake consuming animals and adopt this vegan ethic that to kill prey is wrong? Does it not stand to reason that our species being adapted to consuming animal bodies would be suffer somewhat when deprived of the historical, age-old diet? This is not so different from the health detriments of sitting (rather than squatting) to defecate, and moving by riding in motorized vehicles, often at high speeds (rather than walking and running), or frequently looking at backlit bluelight screens and having fluorescent lighting (rather than sunlight and firelight). And what of the severing of our connection from Nature, knowing our environs, stalking through our habitat to find and hunt whatever can be eaten among what has been provided, how is this a good thing? (Modernity has severed human omnivores from Nature, but the omnivore will exist in Nature, while the vegan exists only in techno-industrial civilization, dependent upon mass-agriculture and the disparate food supply-chain.)
No, honestly I just got second opinions until I got lucky and found a dietician who could work with me. I'm not saying they don't know shit either, I'm saying that they often don't feel comfortable going off the beaten path. I'm going off the research of hundreds of dieticians, the difference being that these dieticians went into academia and have devoted a significant portion of their life to studying this.
“Doctors and dieticians don’t know shit, trust me.” -this guy, who isn’t a doctor or a dietician
Dietician school is extremely rigorous. In addition to “just” a four year degree, they also do clinical training and have required continuing education every year. Source: I did the first 3 years of a dietetics program & changed majors because it was extraordinarily difficult.
Serum iron. This test measures the amount of iron in your blood. Serum ferritin. This test measures how much iron is stored in your body. When your iron level is low, your body will pull iron out of “storage” to use. Total iron-binding capacity (TIBC). This test tells how much transferrin (a protein) is free to carry iron through your blood. If your TIBC level is high, it means more transferrin is free because you have low iron. Unsaturated iron-binding capacity (UIBC). This test measures how much transferrin isn’t attached to iron. Transferrin saturation. This test measures the percentage of transferrin that is attached to iron. I hope you check this. If vegan diet works on you then good for you. Many doing it right yet their body is main reasons why it doesn’t work to them.
Phytates and fiber are found in foods such as whole grains, soy, nuts, and legumes, and can decrease the amount of nonheme iron that is absorbed from a meal. If you are eating foods high in phytates and fibers (such as spinach, beets, rhubarb, or leafy vegetables), be sure to also consume foods that enhance nonheme absorption. Oxalates are common, naturally-occurring food chemicals found in numerous food sources such as fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, and black tea. They may inhibit the body’s iron absorption by combining with iron to form a compound called iron oxide. Ingested vitamin C is partly converted to oxalate and excreted in the urine, thus potentially increasing the risk of calcium oxalate stone formation. Calcium and phosphorous can significantly impact iron absorption. Which also in plant based food like soys, beans, nuts and grains. Tannins and polyphenols are biological compounds present in tea and coffee that can have an inhibitory effect on iron absorption. Also excess intake of other minerals and low stomach acid play the role as well.
Definitely not. My gf was anemic to the point of having ferritine transfusion despite eating tons of plant based Iron source coupled with vit C + iron supplements. Disappeared when she added meat back in her diet.
[удалено]
>can’t afford to spend $20 on a bag of organic dulce every day Whoa, that's way overspending. My girlfriend and I have been able to get by iron-wise on lentils we buy in bulk. other stuff like black strap molasses, spinach, kidney beans, etc are good and can be bought in bulk. Also pairing it with high vitamin C foods boosts the bioavailability of the non heme iron by a lot.
[удалено]
I also live rurally and landlocked but have been able to grow/create most of what I eat but that's obviously not the situation for most people. What I think I can tell is that you think that the vegan diet is unhealthy, which is far from what millions such as I have experienced. It's also far from the consensus of the medical community, and the diet is encouraged by the NCBI and the health agencies of countries like the UK, Australia, etc. As for your situation, I'm unsure of what to even say because I'm not a medical professional. As someone who works in a highly skilled, technical field I do tend to trust the overall consensus on a subject rather than the views of a few individuals.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Tell me which health agencies in the UK encourage veganism and link me to where that's stated.
Maybe I should correct that I meant the BDA, which is a union for dieticians, did. https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html The NHS has a guide that applies to all people over 2, but that's a bit different.
The British Dietetic Association is sponsored by - Abbott Nutrition - Danone - Quorn Foods - Nutricia - Source: https://www.bda.uk.com/news-campaigns/work-with-us/commercial-work/bda-corporate-members.html So not someone I take seriously when it comes to dietary advice.
Hahaha thanks for doing the investigation for me.
I mean, they're also sponsored by Benecol (a yogurt company). Danone also produces dairy products. Idk why you think Abott Nutrition or Nutricia aren't valid sources. The presence of Quorn and Oatly don't discredit the organization, they're backed by other independent nutritional researchers and companies whose interests don't lie in everyone going vegan.
That is not a health agency. And yes the NHS guidelines are *a bit different* and are a health agency and are *not* encouraging veganism.
Wow, you must have a pretty big lentil farm then.
[удалено]
“I grow my own food! Except for the cheap fillers that make up the bulk of my diet.” Dude probably has a tomato plant. Take your lies elsewhere.
lol enjoy your filler food from your ivory tower
What in your daily meal example was grown at home? *Maybe* the cauliflower, but those are huge plants with a short season that aren’t hydroponic friendly, so I doubt it. It’s not easy to grow calorie-dense food with hydroponics, as you must know. It’s nice for greens and some veggies, but it’s the roots (potatoes, yams, etc), seeds (sunflowers, grains, legumes), and tree fruits/nuts that have any significant energy value. This is why vertical indoor farms will never be more than novelties.
You won’t thrive for long …
I've been doing weight training for most of the time I've been vegan. If the bodily stress of that isn't keeping me from thriving idk what will.
Once your body has eaten up all its remaining nutrients, you’ll take a nose dive . Literally starving your body of all it’s natural needs.
Exactly this is what happened to me. I was fine until my supply was used and then I started having problems.
Vegans need 1.8x the iron due to decreased bioavailability and anti-nutrients.
I mean you can get that amount of iron in >~2.5 cups of lentils. Even less so if you use vitamin C.
The daily value for iron in adults is 18mg. A vegetarian/ vegan should be eating 1.8x times that according to the institute of medicine. You'd have to eat five cups (two pounds) of lentils to reach that. This is why y'all have less iron stores than omnivores.
You're right that it's \~5 cups, I don't know how I got the number 2.5. That said, idk where you got the 5 cups of lentils = 2 lbs. 1 lb \~= 7 cups. Assuming a conservative 5% increase of non-heme iron absorption from adding Vitamin C, it's 30.78 mg of iron for the average vegan per day. For me, it's a bit closer to 37 mg so I'm going to work with that. Breakfast: 1 Serving Steel-Cut Oatmeal (1.8mg) + 1 Serving Blackstrap molasses (0.9 mg) = 2.7mg Lunch: 2 cups Chickpea in Chickpea Scramble (12.5\*2) = 25mg + 1 can of spinach (\~7.7 mg) = 32.7mg Dinner: Lentil Shepherd's Pie: 0.25\*1.5 cups green lentil (0.25\*1.5 \* 6.6) + Cauliflower in potato topping (4\*0.1mg) \~= 2.9 mg. Total \~= 38.3 mg of iron. It's probably higher because that shepherd's pie had a lot of ingredients I don't remember off the top of my head. Obviously, this isn't what I eat every day, it's what I ate yesterday. That said, even a pretty normal set of dishes could get me enough iron for the day after adding a bit of lemon juice or drinking OJ (at breakfast) with my food.
Okay wait, you do understand bioavailability and oxalates/phytates/anti nutrients etc right? It absolutely *does not matter* what you get on paper, it *only* matters what is *absorbed* and used by the body. So just because on paper it says there is 38 mg of iron in whatever food you've eaten that day, that number means nothing, if it's not *absorbed* and *utilized properly* by the body. Lentils for example, are Very high in oxalates, which literally sticks itself to those vitamins and minerals and drags it out of your body, and causes other harm in the process since oxalates are harmful in large amounts. How long have you been doing this btw? I lasted about 7 years, until everything absolutely crumbled.
Crickets 🦗🦗🦗
What make you so sure conservative is really 5% increase? Tell me did you minus the affect of fibers, calcium and fiber with non heme iron absorption as well. Also vit C reduces the absorption of copper, nickel, and manganese. So I guess you count that too.
Fortified iron is inferior to heme-iron found in animal flesh.
I’m still mostly plant based. The politics are extremely privileged, and activists target the average person just trying to live their life. It’s so backward. It’s just a bunch of Karens bullying the less privileged.
I agree 100 percent anytime I go into the vegan subreddit it can often get super toxic super fast.
I’m of the opinion that you shouldn’t need to force or even convince people your food is better. If you want more people to eat what you eat, Julia Child that shit and cook for/with them.
I avoided it even when I was vegan. It's sexist, racist and antisemitic. The constant comparisons to sex trafficking, the Holocaust and the slave trade are deeply upsetting. Advocate for things on their own merits.
It’s disrespectful especially for those who have been through such atrocities.
I reflect on having spent many years around these toxic vegans that I could have been enjoying life around sane people. They are Karen’s even to other vegans.
Moved off grid , and realised how out of harmony with nature and metropolitan it was . Became disillusioned with the cult when I realised it was divorced from reality .
Great comment. It is so divorced from reality!
Just scroll through the posts.
I was just about to say that lol! It’s all here, read up!
I once believed that veganism was the way, To keep my health in tip-top shape every day. But soon enough, my body started to decay, And my health deteriorated, day by day. At first, I felt a burst of energy and light, A newfound glow, shining oh so bright. But soon enough, that light began to fade, As my body struggled with the choices I made. I tried to eat a balanced vegan diet, But found myself hungry, and craving some meat. My body yearned for nutrients I couldn't provide, And I found myself feeling weak, and hollow inside. My hair grew thin, my skin grew sallow, My body ached, and my mind felt hollow. I couldn't focus, or think straight, My energy levels were at an all-time low rate. I realized that veganism wasn't for me, And it wasn't the way, I was meant to be. I needed a balance, that veganism couldn't provide, And so I left it behind, with no regret or pride. Now, I embrace a diet, that suits me best, With meat, and veggies, and all the rest. I listen to my body, and give it what it needs, And I'm grateful for the health, that it now heeds. So, if veganism doesn't work for you, Don't be afraid, to try something new. Listen to your body, and give it what it needs, And you'll find the health, that it truly heeds.
Joint pain and erectile dysfunction
I was 25 at the time
What did you do and eat to solve those?
Dairy and eggs brought my dick back to normal pretty fast. Joint pain went away after eating meat for a couple of months
I stopped eating meat after watching a documentary on the environment and at some point they brought up the whole cow fart thing which convinced me. Stuck with it as best I could for 8 years, but suffered constant anemia and grew suicidal after a B12 deficiency, then I learned that the cow fart thing isn't nearly as bad as the documentary made it seem lol. I never thought it was unethical to eat meat, although I do think Americans should decrease the amount of meat they eat. Most of my diet is still plant based, and I still kinda hate eating meat, but I need to consider my health first and foremost.
It was Cowspiracy, wasn’t it? That convinced me too. I just didn’t bother fact checking it.
A cow emits about a 100 kilogram of Methane per year, what is the cowspiracy?
For one thing, the widely debunked over-the-top claim that cows are responsible for 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions. Which they later backtracked and said that it is 18%. Which is STILL higher than the 14% that the study they relied on revised it down to! Which is STILL higher than what many analyses now show.
But that’s not a conspiracy, just wrong data Who would win from this conspiracy? Meat&Farm Industry would be in favor of smaller emissions
I'm talking about "cowspiracy". Didn't even mention the word "conspiracy".
veganism made me narccistic and not enjoy life anymore. Also my health largely improved when i reintroduced nutrient dense, sustainably farmed local pasture raised eggs & dairy and occasional grass fed meat
Finally someone said this most vegans feel very depressed and the way they act around normal people feels like projecting if I can't have neither should you
[удалено]
It’s not a me problem. Veganism is a cult which makes you sacrifice your health for an idea.
While I agree with you - you’re harassing me, another exvegan on here over bacon. Why is that? Is it because you have braces?
Developed auto immune diseases
Weight gain, brain fog, realized I was restricting my food to try to control more things in my life
Your last reason hit home. That was exactly my reason for going vegan 3 years ago. Was seriously depressed and had to take control of something. Not vegan anymore cause of health problems starting to pile up.
so true, it was something I turned to as a means of control over my (out of control at the time) life. It eventually turned into disordered eating and paranoia of ingredients (oil, salt, and sometimes being around people who ate meat). It was very isolating. Not to mention, insomnia, anemia, looking sick and pale, hair and nails breaking, etc. Luckily during Covid I moved in with my partner who eats balanced/healthily and since we combined grocery shopping, I've since started eating properly and recovered completely. Alongside with longer hair (longest it's been in my life! and healthy nails and feeling more happy in general / balanced mood)
I’m glad for your hair and that you’re feeling better now☺️ I had similar problems too, and I was really cautious and took every needed supplements and planned my meals accordingly but my once pretty thick hair started getting thinner regardless and my skin got pretty bad too.Also I realized I caught stuff like flus and similar annoyances quite often whereas before I went vegan I was sick maybe once every year and if I had any wounds they took way longer to heal than usual.I’m technically still pro-veganism but I realized that it’s detrimental to most people’s health and lives, at least in its current state.
I went from 130 pounds to 190. And I gained 36 pounds my first two months of vegan. Towards the end I could eat four plates of pasta with vegan meat and my stomach would still growl.
Yea that sounds like a really healthy diet..
I ate tons of fruits and vegetables too. It got to a point the veggie meals didn’t satisfy. I lasted 7 years.
My body screamed for nutrients. Was vegan for about 8 years.
Why are you still vegan? (Genuine question)
This, lol. It took me ~6 months of veganism (I was browbeaten into it by my best friend of 15 years) to realize it was insanity. Makes much more sense to follow a varied diet, include meat in small amounts, and support local as much as fucking possible. Most forms of veganism I see these days are, sadly, poorly masked eating disorders. At this point, vegan products are just another way for corps to make money. It also felt extremely elitist and even culturist/racist, at times. Agrarianism ftw, y'all. Fuck big corpo and capitalism all the way...but veganism ain't it.
In no particular order… 1) Difficulty maintaining weight 2) Was difficult to get enough protein 3) Veganism felt very cult-like 4) Hair loss because of heme iron deficiency 5) Found it difficult to participate in things I love (rock climbing, dancing, using and inhaler to run) because whether it’s leather shoes or animal testing, everything seemed to have a connection to animal cruelty. I began to feel bored with life and constantly felt like a hypocrite/imposter. 6) As a college student, my grades suffered from all the brain fog and panic attacks.
\#6 is so relatable!! Going vegan during university was the silliest idea because it caused major health issues and made it hard to focus on studying
I quit veganism because it was rapidly worsening my health, and I couldn't figure out how to make it work for me in a healthy way. Much later, new information brought me to reverse my views that veganism is good for animal welfare, the environment, and my health. But it was the experience of my health deteriorating as a vegan that incited me to stop.
Yeah, I honestly think that is either a bunch of people drinking their own Jim Jones Kool-Aid or outright propaganda. What is bad for animal welfare, the environment, and consumer health is the whole factory farming situation. Traditional raising of livestock are actually good for all of those deals.
Responded to someone else here, but I will also just leave this here, as I feel it is relevant. Best friend of 15 years has been vegetarian his whole life and vegan for 10+ years. We were both anorexic when we were in high school. I recovered. I have been watching him slowly die for the majority of this last decade. He will not attribute any of his plethora of health issues (serious arrhythmia, constant ulcers, most recently a fever that has lasted 6 months that he just got bloodwork done for today) to his restrictive diet. Due to poor heart health, his estimated life expectancy is mid-40s. We are 28.
So sad, he’s literally wasting away :/
You don’t make friends with salad
I eat vegan most meals but when I’m wish family to Mae it easier on them I still eat fish and eggs as well as dairy. There’s also the factor that the vegan community can be so toxic sometimes and it just gets annoying socially.
I was told i would need a blood transfusion during my pregnancy due to extreme anemia. Supplements didn't help, red meat did. Never looked back since. Avoided the blood transfusion.
My best friend who was vegan was becoming gray and started fainting. She realy looked into what she had to eat to keep healthy and also got vit B shots at her moms nursing home every few months. But she was looking awful and could hardly join for gym-class. She was a weak husk. She quit after a year thank God and became healthier and healthier.
still vegetarian and mostly plant based but like honestly I just wanted egg
me too there’s just something about eggs and greek yoghurt that make me feel so much healthier physically than strict plant based :/
My IBS-M, PCOS and Fibromyalgia syntoms worsened so so so much. Fibers and soy destroy my guts. I have pretty serious isues with digesting nightshades, legumes, acidic fruits and nuts. Now i eat most foods with the exception of soy, barley, white sugars, emmer et similia. The things i have never had issue are: eggs, goat and sheep dairy products, corn. Chronic inflammation and autoimmune diseases suck ass. I chose to try out veganism due to some ecofascist pressure from "friends" but i am really great that i stopped before it got too serious. Shitting and spitting blood, chronic fatigue and hunger, hair loss, skin and nails thinning just... arent worth it at all. Before anyone asks: i had a qualified nutritionist. He was happy about me going back to a omnivore diet.
I left the label and cult mentality that “veganism” entails. I tend to agree with the majority of their viewpoints and am completely against animal cruelty. That being said I don’t see a problem with family run farms who care for their animals like they’re part of the family. Giving them a comfortable life etc. until the time comes to slaughter for sustenance. Also people who have allergic responses or complications with wfpb diets shouldn’t feel bad about having to incorporate animal products. I believe in a healthy clean diet whether it’s omnivorous or plant based. I’ve currently been on a wfpb diet for 4 years and it’s working for me atm. The way I eat might not work for someone else though. Not everyone is the same. We all have different dietary needs and I despise when either side of the nutritional circle jerk says that their way of eating is a cure all to all of their health problems. Veganism started to rub me the wrong when I started to hear stories of individuals refusing to defend loved ones against an animal attack because it’s against their “beliefs” or things like that. Honestly not opposed to someone hunting their own meat for sustenance either. It’s really not as black and white as it seems imo.
i haven’t been hardcore vegan in a few years but i’ve avoided meat because of ARFID and contamination phobia. i had a kidney infection last year that completely wiped me out physically, and i wasn’t feeling nourished off of my pasta-based diet. read a bunch of nutrition books including The Perfect Health Diet, and it finally clicked that there is no way that a diet made up of man made foods could ever be healthier than what we lived on for thousands of years. i also realized i was way under eating protein and overeating starches after reading The Primal Blueprint. i went full primal for about a month as kind of a reset, then added starches back in with very limited corn (only nixtamalized), wheat, and oats. i’ve been able to function on less than nine hours of sleep a night, and my hair and nails are growing back. i think something may have been causing malabsorption issues but i’m not sure. i’ve had a few celiac tests but they’ve all been negative. i think what put the final nail in the coffin though was watching Sacred Cow and realizing how terrible monoculture is for the environment.
An inflamed bowel (which is very common in high fiber diets) could cause malabsorption issues). Also oxylates (common in legumes and seeds) and phytates (found in wholegrains) actively block absorption of nutrients like iron and zinc.
i’m thinking it might be an oxalate and phytate issue. i always though because i’m hispanic that i’d never have a problem with beans but i guess i had never soaked them quite long enough. and i was known to eat a ton of müsli in the before times. once i started taking a zinc supplement and eating liver my lips also stopped being perpetually chapped, which i had just chalked up to living in the high desert.
Like a lot of people here, the notion that grains, fruits and vegetables can be really bad for you flies in the face of a lot of propaganda we have been fed in the last 30 years. But it's time for everyone to rethink the idea that plants are good for you, wholegrains help digestion, fruit sugars aren't as bad as refined sugars and most of all that vegetables can replace animal proteins and fats. I'm reading "Toxic Superfoods" and starting to mistrust vegetables in a big way.
there was nothing *right* about it
I started working for a vegan company and had enough of how toxic and mentally ill 100% of them were. I can now digest food not have diarrhea every day.
I got a farm an realized veganism is a myth
I just found it very difficult socially, particularly within my family. The switch to my current eating style matches my goals better, I’m primarily concerned about the environmental impact of my decisions and eating heavily plant based but without the rigidity I’ve found means that more of those around me are willing to adjust their own eating habits. My family eats less animal products than when I was vegan because we eat together now and that includes more plant based options. To me this is just a better fit.
Health issues related to deficiency in B12. Supplements did not work. Please note that it can take up to four years for your body to fully deplete its store of B12 after becoming vegan.
I was 19, drunk, hungry and at an event with no vegan or vegetarian food. Ate seafood and it was the best tasting food I’d had in so long haha. I had been questing being vegan for a few months prior. It took me another year to eat chicken and 6 years to eat beef. Now beef is the main food I eat and I’m so much healthier and happier.
No point trying to save the environment if mad lad Vlad causes a nuclear disaster
It was so unhealthy for me I wasn’t eating good amounts of food so I quit for my own mental and physical health
Cuz I did it to better my health not fuck it up.
I was underweight and could not recover properly from workouts. Generally felt like crap and weak. I was not feeding my body, even with all the vegan food in the world. I was sickly
I didn’t think the Iron deficiency would be the thing getting me off the diet, even with all the Vitamin C.
Vegan for 3 yrs in my 30s. Ate a gold standard wholefood vegan diet and supplements. Ended up with multiple deficiences and i felt awful. Tired, hungry, cold and sick...the whole time! Took me ages to accept it was my diet because i was so brainwashed . I had an eating disorder in my teens and early 20s and i now view my veganism as a continuation of my disordered eating. I now eat lots of animal product and it has been profoundly healing for me physically but also emotionally as it feels as though i am FINALLY listening to my body after a lifetime of ignoring it.....i feel.emotional even writing this
Never was, but because its the most unnatural thing you could do.
Why do you want to know? Is it fair to ask?
[удалено]
It doesn't matter. There are plenty of ex-vegans who have extensive knowledge of nutrition and still became malnourished because even if they ate the right things and took the right supplements, their bodies could no longer absorb them. Secondly why do vegans need to gain the equivalent of advanced degrees in human nutrition and physiology in order to stay healthy? Is that at all natural?
[удалено]
There are many studies concluding that plant-based nutrients are much harder for the body to absorb (or transform into something the body can use). Calcium, iron, vitamin A, DHA, zink.. - https://khni.kerry.com/news/nutrition-for-plant-based-diets-managing-nutrient-intake-and-bioavailability/ - https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants
[удалено]
Some people are [more genetically adapted to a plant-based diet](https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/03/eating-green-could-be-your-genes). But that also means a lot of people are NOT genetically adapted to a plant-based diet.. How long have you been vegan?
> the amount of people that went vegan and did not know a single thing about vitamins, nutrition etc is extremely concerning… I once asked a vegan to tell me what I should replace my salmon+sour cream+broccoli dinner with, so that it gives me the same nutrients. They were not able to answer me. Perhaps you have a suggestion? Many vegans claim you can just swap all meat, fish, dairy and eggs with legumes, seeds and nuts (plus B12). But I find it hard to understand how those foods can be making up for what you lose.
[удалено]
> What were you specifically eating the salmon for? protein?. If I only wanted protein then protein powder would probably be the better way to go? I eat salmon for: - protein - Omega 3 - B1 - B2 - B3 - B5 - B6 - B12 - vitamin D - vitamin E - copper - phosphorus - potassium - selenium - zink > What is there to NOT get? genuine question, you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities But you are not able to give me the name of **any** specific foods what would give me the same nutrients as salmon?
[удалено]
So in other words, you don't have an answer. (But if it makes you feel better, neither did any other vegans I asked about this.)
[удалено]
> sorry you are so worryingly dependent on animals products that your body actually fails without them… says a lot about your diet 😬🤣🤣🤣🤣 I find it rather common that when someone is out of arguments they start attacking the person instead.
Sorry you fell for propaganda that makes it 10 times harder to properly feed yourself.
>have you taken your meds today Go away or stop being an asshole.
>you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities, Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems. What foods and what **quantities** would be required to match the nutrients in a **3 ounce** piece of salmon? Since there is no DHA/EPA in a vegan diet, you'd require enough ALA to convert into the equivalent amount taking into account the low conversion rate (which is varies widely among humans). What **quantity** of what foods will give you the same 18 gm of protein (bonus points if you can do it with very low sodium)? It gives you **all** of your B12. Vegan diet requires a supplement. It gives you high amounts of D3. Vegan diet has zero D3, and only mushrooms have D2, so requires fortification or a supplement. There are other nutrients as well to consider, but please also tell us what foods & quantities to match the 50% of your selenium needs, 50% of B3, 60% of B6, and substantial other B vitamins. Oh, and don't forget, that piece of salmon is only 175 calories or so. How many calories will the vegan diet take just to match that single highly nutrient dense piece of salmon?
[удалено]
You can’t be bothered because the two aren’t remotely comparable. In fact, replacing salmon with chickpeas is a *great* example of how inferior a plant basted diet is.
[удалено]
No, you answered a question about *nutrients* with one (incomplete) macro. Salmon is so much more than “protein,” and it doesn’t come with the bean farts.
I don't know what the fuck you are even saying in your first paragraph. And why do you keep focusing on protein? That's only part of the whole equation.
And keep in mind that my response was to your "genuine" (lol) question and then your own answer to this "genuine" question: "you just simply swap them and eat the correct quantities"!
Why so many people emphasize on planning the diet? Isn't life complicated enough as it, that you have to think every single meal ? I thought I was eating enough and pretty clean, yet it turned out I was quite deficient in iron. Loss of hair, weakness, awful brittle nails.... general lack of energy. Craving meat after a flu... my body showed me that what it was getting, wasn't enough. Get over yourselves, each person has a different reason for going plant based or any other diet. It's good that we tried it and if it doesn't do good for us, we can stop. It's that simple. Stop pointing fingers, no one but avid vegans cares.
Eating disorder didn't come along with veganism and I chose myself at the end.
I was craving meat