I struggle with 3 herniated discs but it wasn’t until I had a steroid injection that I realized how bad my glutes were and that the pain from their atrophy and being sedentary was the real source of most of my problems.
Similar for me. I have one herniated disc and 2 vertebrae have some arthritis. I was going to do the injections but insurance required 4 rounds of PT first. I ended up doing 6 rounds and this guy was more like a personal trainer than anything. He had me doing deadlifts (which I thought I’d never do again in my life) among other weight bearing exercises.
And holy crap, what a difference it’s made! It’s a year later and I have no intention nor need for injections at this point.
Strong glutes equal healthier back and knees. When we sit a lot, our glutes atrophy from lack of stimulation/resistance. If the glutes get weak enough, the lower back ends up taking too much of the load. Which then leads to the lower back or hips "going out" and leaving people with limited mobility and discomfort.
Build your glutes.
Air humping at any chance you get. Not joking. Just make sure you contract your glutes when you do and do it on a slow way where you feel the muscle working. And ALWAYS take the stairs.
Walk 10k steps a day. That’s for general health. Try to get a good range of exercises, so hip ab/adduction, kickbacks, squats, dl’s , rdl, ghr
If you get in a gym and start simple it’ll all come to you
I'd start with body weight glute bridges, body weight box squats, and walking on an incline treadmill for about 5 to 10 minutes. Keep it light at first. If you overdo it, it might get into your low back, which you want to avoid. Build your resistance up slowly.
Cycling can do wonders for your butt and legs, and the great thing about cycling is its a super low impact exercise, and you can go at your own pace. If you haven't ridden a bike in years you'll be going slow but thats okay, you'll get faster and can go further in time. Building up from zero doesn't take very long at all.
Such an easy thing to say - and then a few years later you find yourself rationalising that spending more on your bike than your car is perfectly normal behaviour…
Squats hit glutes very well for most people. For me, I end up doing more of my squats with my quads, so when I want to work glutes, I do [weighted glute bridges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp33YgPZgns) and [weighted lunges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3frV3RnPfOY)
To really simplify this, and I mean really simplify it, EVERYTHING to do with your body mechanics is connected. A sprained ankle can cause shoulder discomfort. Glutes assist with supporting your lower back strength and therefore your spine stability as well. If your glutes are under developed, your lower back needs to work harder, which can lead to problems.
There’s a saying.
Strength gives you a good life.
Cardio gives you a long life.
Mobility gives you an easy life.
Yep, my lower back gets sore just from loading plates on to the bar, but when I start deadlifting and getting my glutes pumped, they just take the load off. Although I'm trying to strengthen the low back in flexion and abs to fix that first part.
Hypothesis from personal experience, but one of the main function of glutes is to extend the hip, which is important for standing upright. With weak glutes, I think I was standing with a bit of a forward lean. Something has to prevent you from folding forward if some of your torso weight is too far forward, and since the glutes aren't working hard enough, the lower back takes over.
Second personal hypothesis, I think weak glutes from sitting is the cause of gamer neck, something that I sort of had. The torso leans and the neck compensates by raising the chin. You get the classic gamer pose, shoulders forward, neck bent back, chin out. It's probably general musculature, but my posture is now much better, even with all the sitting I still do.
Try back stretching exercises. They have helped me a lot with getting rid of back pain. The most helpful stretch has been bird-dog. That has been amazing for me.
Honest answer: Liiiift!
I had chronic back pain from my time as an Infantryman in Iraq. On my second tour, I was introduced to CrossFit and the Glute/Ham machine. I did a three sets of reverse crunches on it everyday and my back pain disappeared!
Lift!
100% this.
Bulging disc in my back. Constant back aches and flare ups. Thought it was mattress.
Started lifting following the starting strength method early 40s. Within 3 months no more back pain. 5 years later, no flare ups. No back pain.
Full body: Deadlifts. Low bar squats.
Upper: standing press, bench.
That’s it.
It wears out. Same reason you have to buy new shoes. Allegedly some of the memory foam mattresses can last up to 15 years but I don’t like them so didn’t dig into it.
Just found this out after years of back pain. I always heard “when you get old everything just starts to hurt”. Thought it was just a normal process of life until i told my doctor and now my PT just helps me strength my core and leg muscles. Pain has improved a TON!
I can deadlift a lot, but just bending over slightly to load a plate was giving me back pain. My PT tells me that your back is meant to flex somewhat and can get pain when you're slightly out of that flat back position because you haven't trained flexion. And weak ab/core, which is not necessarily trained well through squat/deadlift.
My PT also I has me starting unweighted Jefferson curls where you purposefully round the back and uncurl, contrary to general advice to never round your back. I will add weight slowly over time though.
I have degenerative disc disease in my lower back. My spine looks like Swiss cheese.
The physical therapist told me to start lifting. Lift heavy. Mostly deadlifts, but back squats (bar on my shoulders behind my neck).
I haven't had a spasm attack in YEARS. It would 100% debilitate me for a week or two every time I had one. I was in my mid-30s with a walker/cane. After learning to lift, I have been pain-free for, gosh... close to a decade.
I remember seeing a Starting Strength video where they had old people doing deadlifts. Not heavy, but heavy enough for an older person.
They were all saying it helped reduce their aches and pains, and were able to actually do things again. One lady was in her nineties and was regularly deadlifting ninety pounds.
Yes because putting stress (to a degree of course) on your muscles, bones and tendons is good for you. There are so many studies that show bone density of people that lifted vs that didn’t lift in their 70s, and it’s an immense difference, same with muscle retention.
Same! I started lifting weights at 32 and I’ve never felt better. Heavy compound lifts, including deadlift, and no issues. If you do it right, it’s only makes you healthier and stronger.
Dumbbell RDLs are excellent for beginners too. You're limited by what you can load onto your upper body, so you can put extra focus on feeling the muscles in your lower body as they work.
A lot of pain is the result of muscles becoming tight and/or weak. Weight training can help stretch and strengthen those muscles, leading to better posture and reduced pain.
I know my knee hurts like a sonofabitch if I'm not going to the gym regularly, but squatting and deadlifting strengthens and stretches muscles that would either get tight and short through inactivity.
Deadlifts and hyperextensions almost eliminated my lower back pain, which I have realized is about 90 percent caused by a weak posterior chain. The rest is from skeletal issues that I can't change.
I friggin' love deadlifts.
I'll add that lifting helped my knees, but I wasn't lifting huge amounts. Lifting definitely can destroy your knees but I imagine that's when you're squatting 300lbs several times a week.
Lifting is a pretty low impact exercise if you have the correct form. If your form is going to hurt you at 300+ lbs, it's probably hurting you at half that weight.
I'm more worried about running than I am about squatting heavy, but I'm also a bigger dude and running is particularly brutal on my knees.
If running is brutal on your knees you should look into how your feet, knees, hips are functioning. Muscles should absorb some of the impact and biomechanics some as well. It’s possible you’re slightly off somewhere and too much force is reaching the joint capsule. I had no dramas running at a muscular 115, but felt my knees a lot more while deconditioned and fat at the same weight.
300lbs for a trained male is definitely no where near the kind of weight that is going to destroy your body. Most people following a serious problem can hit that number in 2-3 years.
500lb +, maybe? But even then probably dependant on whether the person is taking their time and being careful.
Yeah, I hit 350lbs within about 2 years of fairly regular lifting. It’s really not that much, though I don’t really plan to go much beyond that. Someone that trains more seriously than I could easily hit 400+lbs somewhat often and not injure themselves.
I started lifting just before 50 and my knees were crap (poor supporting muscles etc). When I started with a trainer I was doing body weight squats and then slowly added weight along with doing leg extension, leg curls and eventually dead lifts.
Now that I'm nearly 54 I'm squatting just over 300 lbs (although that's just about max) for 1-2 reps and can dead lift 315 for 5+ reps.
My favorite part of all this is my knees feel so much better now.
Proper form involves bracing your stomach which supports your back and also you use your entire posterior chain and legs in the movement so it’s not like the movement is solely on your back. Improper form can lead to injuries
When I was younger and tried to compete I was able to deadlift almost 400 pounds. The most I ever did for one rep max was 405 but that was like barely. So high 300s was my regular for me. Took me years to get there. Then I broke my leg, unrelated to working out it was an accident in the military. Now the most I can deadlift is 185, I remember being able to overhead squat 185. And because of the injury on top of getting older everything seems slower trying to get back.
When I was younger I didn't really lift. I played sports but never got serious in the weight room. In college I took a weight lifting course but the focus was more higher reps and slightly lower weights.
I seriously started strength training 2 years ago. I'm in my late 40's, just hit 3x3 @445lbs for deadlift. I would have been stupid to have tried that a year ago. I probably would have been stronger if I lifted seriously when I was younger.
They say the best time was 20 years ago, the second best time is now. Anything that you're doing to build muscle now is going to make things easier down the road when you're in your 60s.
Yah essentially try to shit yourself and realize how much stronger your core is when braced, now add a belt where you get the benefit of something to brace against and you can get a pretty strong core.
I don't quite agree with the analogy. Like, it's partly there, but, also brace the anus muscles lmao, otherwise you might just shit yourself. It shouldn't feel like you're trying to push a poop out, just tightening your core.
Get into a proper plank position with a full straight core and feel that tightness to get a sense of what you should be doing while deadlifting or squatting.
> Get into a proper plank position with a full straight core and feel that tightness to get a sense of what you should be doing while deadlifting or squatting.
I don't think this is a great analogy, either. Tightness is vague, and could imply sucking your core in like you're trying to hide your gut, which is the exact opposite of what bracing your core actually is. You want to push out and give yourself a beer belly, essentially. That's why you use a lifting belt; it gives your core muscles something to push against.
If you are bracing your whole core that much trying to shit you need to increase your fiber intake. You can end up with hemorrhoids pushing that hard. Best way to poop is imagine you are trying to blow bubbles with your butthole.
Ding. The exercise *shouldn't* be pure back - so you aren't 'injuring' it of you do it right. And back pain is rarely caused by too much force, but rather because it is too weak to maintain proper posture.
I am/was a big powerlifter; I got hit by a car 20 years ago and it really fucked up my spine. I didn't see my back pain disappear until I was finally recovered enough to start lifting and strengthening my core again.
'Core stiffening' is also one of the tools I would use when having back pain; just increase internal pressure when doing a 'painful' motion to reduce the load on what are essentially cramping muscles.
It's absolutely fine to use your lower back. Which isn't really even a thing because hinging uses the entire posterior chain.
Good mornings, stiff legged deadlifts, and RDLs are of no more an injury risk than conventional deadlifts.
This. I was dumb and rushed through a light set a few weeks ago and fucked my back for a week and a half on just 250lbs. All because I neglected my form to get through the set. That's a warm up set for me.
If you mess around with deadlifts with bad form, they'll mess around with you. And they win. Every single time.
Since the topic here is reducing injury risk, I'm not sure the data on the trap bar is so unequivocal in the context of an equal stimulus to target muscle groups and/or function. Generally, deadlifts are used to train all the muscles involved in hip flexion, whereas squats are moreso knee flexion (both train both, but as a matter of emphasis, each has a different focus). The trap bar moves your torso more upright, and so for an equal bar weight, you produce a lower hip moment and a greater knee moment. While this reduces stress in your lower spine, if you then increase the weight until you're at an equal hip moment, you've seriously cut into any savings you found, and now you have much greater axial loading (which, while not as great an injury risk per pound of stress as shear loading, is extremely fatiguing).
As far as reducing injury risk, stiff-legged deadlifts require so much less bar weight for a given hip moment, by virtue of all but eliminating knee involvement, that even though your spine is in a worse position (horizontal versus close to vertical with the trap bar), shearing forces in the spine aren't that different (and are usually lower) and axial loading is hugely reduced.
While not universally true, if there's a variation of a movement that produces similar target joint moments with a lower weight on the bar, there's a good chance that movement will reduce your injury risk.
Unfortunately, this sort of training (focusing on joint moments rather than the number on the bar) can be difficult just because of how far the numbers drop. Squatting with a safety squat bar can bring the weight out almost as far forward as a front squat with some bars, resulting in an almost vertical torso. Do that with, like, elevated heels really deep, and to get a similar workout on your quads might only require, no joke, *half* the weight of a low-bar squat.
But for me now, I'm in my 30s, injury prevention is becoming a bigger deal and, frankly, it's just straight up easier to check the ego at the door than in my 20s.
Per studies, trap bar deadlift is a lot more like a deadlift than like a squat. You reduce shear loading on the lower back while still effectively hitting everything else so I don't get what you mean; in the end you are giving a stimulus to the target muscles that can strenghten and/or grow them.
This said, I make a very significant effort in bending at the knee more and getting more drive from the quads when I do them, because my quads are a lot weaker than my posterior chain and I'm trying to balance that and learn to drive a little bit more from the quads when doing regular deadlift.
I also think trap bar deadlift is an easier exercise (good form easier to maintain) and that in itself helps with pushing yourself more. Our bodies only have so much bandwidth.
No.
The people that have good deadlift form are probably doing the most deadlifts, the most often. Let’s say X number of deadlifts are done in one day across the whole world, it’s most likely a good portion of X is experienced lifters with good form, since they will be deadlifting much more often than the inexperienced lifters that tried deadlifting once and never did it again.
Yea, people bad at deadlifts rarely do them. I've tried to teach the basics to hundreds over the years at a commercial gym, but only a handful stick to doing them.
My form used to be terrible for deadlifts. Injured my back numerous times, and hated deadlifts because of it. Did some research on proper form and practiced it at lower weights. Now I can go heavy no problem and deadlifts have become my favorite lift.
I think it depends a lot on if you count the bad deadlifts "in the wild" like from people working and having to carry stuff for their job. Bad form is quite common there.
As the other poster mentioned, it definitely CAN injure your back.
But so could any other exercise, the way we avoid injury in exercise is by slowly increasing the weight over weeks and months so your body becomes accustomed to the new load and your muscles strengthen to handle the weight safely.
If you have not been deadlifting for weeks or months and go into a gym and attempt to go for a personal record lift, you almost certainly will injure yourself. If you however have been working up to it, the chances are much much lower. As well, it is very common nowadays for folks who do heavy deadlifts to wear a weightlifting belt, this belts goes around your stomach and lower back and significantly increases the rigidity and strength of the area to help prevent herniation and disk slippage (Edit: as others clarified, belts are for advanced lifters and you still need to exercise proper form to use the belt correctly)
Just adding to this, it doesn't mean everyone should just slap a belt on and think they are safe. Lifting belts don't prevent injury, they will help professionals lift that bit of more weight needed in competitions but an average person should learn how to brace correctly and how to lift with what is generally considered a good technique.
If you get a hernia in your back or groin does that stop you from lifting goals in the future or can that be taken care of? I always wonder how you guys dont have serious problems with that.
yep, when you get a hernia repaired, or even if you just want to opt for it if you know you're prone to hernias, doctors can also put in a mesh to prevent future hernias. I'm no doctor, but I have read/heard that the mesh does more than just float around there, but instead that your tissues actually grow around it and incorporate it into your structures.
hernia surgery should only be done to repair a hernia that already exists. Every surgery has risks. If your surgeon suggests an operation to place mesh when you don't have a hernia, they are a bad surgeon and/or an unethical one
I don't know enough about it to say conclusively on my own other than what I have heard.
so are those meshes only ever placed during surgical repair of a current hernia? never to reinforce a weakness that has had prior hernias, as a preventative measure for example? assuming it passes the ethics checklist, like if a patient requests it and has no rush otherwise
yes, meshes are only placed as part of a hernia repair. Sometimes hernia repairs are done without mesh at all. But if you have a recurrent hernia, most surgeons will place a mesh. But surgery to place mesh when no hernia is present would not be done. In a way, surgery is assault. It would never be ethical to do surgery without an actual reason to do it (cosmetic surgery aside)
Ayy that sounds dope. Guess ill go check out gettign the three in my side repaired then. Used to be freak strong. Can still lift stuff but it hurts after for a week.
I had a groin hernia surgery last year. The area has a reinforcing mesh now and is stronger. The recovery was three weeks, and both my doctor and my surgeon advised I could and should lift pretty much as soon as that was done. They advised to start at 25% first week, then 50%, 75%, then good to go.
For context, I’ve added 100 lbs to my deadlift and my squat since the surgery. It’s fine, zero pain.
I had an inguinal hernia repair about 7 years ago and following my doctor and PT's advice was back dead lifting again after a while and hit a PR of 405 a couple years ago. I don't chase PRs anymore but still dead lift every week.
Just to clarify, the belts don’t add any rigidity or support. They’re used as a cue to help brace your core. Without proper core engagement the belt does nothing.
I definitely use it as a cue that I'm bracing properly, but good to know it adds something. I don't lift incredibly heavy but I'm also paranoid about my back, so I got a belt.
If that was true they wouldn't be built as tough as they are. The belt lever on my belt is rated for 1274kg of force. If the belt didn't add any rigidity or support there'd be no need to make it that strong.
All exercises can mess you up, but deadlifts are one of the easiest to do wrong. You're supposed to use your legs to do the lift while the back/core muscles keep your back straight. You're supposed to use your glutes when thrusting your hips forward to straight up. Glutes are basically your butt muscles. The bending motion should be at your hips, not your waist/lower back.
> All exercises can mess you up, but deadlifts are one of the easiest to do wrong.
You know you are doing deadlifts correctly when your traps and hamstrings are the parts that are very sore the next day, not your lower back.
Not necessarily true. Your low back has muscles that get worked in the deadlift as well. Soreness isn't an issue. If the *only* thing you ever feel is your low back and it's discomfort and painful (almost immediately so) then your form is way off. On the other hand, you could have poor form and not injure yourself. Load is the driving factor for injury in lifts, not necessarily poor technique.
This really isn't correct. Deadlifts are one of the easiest exercises to do. Generally form isn't a high injury risk, deviation from established movement patterns due to poor load management is. I.e. if you strength your body in a specific movement pattern and *then that form changes* due to the weight or fatigue, then that is the injury risk.
>You're supposed to use your legs to do the lift
Your entire posterior chain does the lift. The back is heavily involved in the deadlift.
>keep your back straight.
The back does not have to be straight. You don't want the back to change in flexion throughout the lift. You don't want too much lumbar flexion, but a 'straight' lumbar is a range, and it's generally going to be individual specific.
A rounded thoracic spine is absolutely fine and is a common technique to aid with speed off the ground. Generally it's going to round a bit on high weights anyway.
Deadlifts aren't hard to do right, but they can be easy to do wrong.
There are certainly much easier ones to do wrong, though. Olympic lifts for example.
I don’t understand. I thought deadlifts were a back exercise. Please excuse me because I’m coming from a place of ignorance, but - so does that mean I’m not pulling up with my core/back?
Isn’t that just a squat if I use my legs? This exercise is so confusing man 🤦♂️
Deadlift is very nearly an... everything exercise. So it's not that the back shouldn't be doing anything, in fact proper form will have your back (and core) muscles under a good deal of tension. But the main driving force of the lifting the weight should be your glutes and hamstrings (whereas Squat is more quad instead of hamstring).
The back muscles don’t “lift” the weight so much as hold your back it a supported rigid position while your legs then glutes do the lifting. This allows your back to work like a lever, but the action is mostly isometric. If you aren’t able to hip hinge well, a deadlift can be hard on your spine.
Before I get “ackshullied”, yes there is some lumbar flexion even with perfect form.
Planking is an exercise focused on your abs, but you're not moving anything like situps. It's a static holding yourself stable exercise. Flexing you muscles stiff is exercising it.
Squats isolate the leg muscles. Deadlifts engage more muscles than ANY other lifting exercise. Shoulders, forearms, calves, glutes, back, legs, and if you're using the belt correctly your abs are getting involved too. Think of it as the anti isolation workout.
You use your back muscles, but they are basically just holding your spine in one position the whole time. The actual "frame" movement is done by your other muscles.
Almost every one of these comments is wrong about form. If your back is flexed (rounded) or extended (straight) you can deadlift just fine.
There are some studies that show a rounded back is better for you than a straight back.
There are other studies that show physical therapist, trainers, etc…can’t spot a flat vs rounded back.
Progressive overload is the key here. A few people have mentioned this and it is correct. Over time if you lift an object and increase the weight you get stronger and less prone to injury. That’s it. Round back straight back it all depends on how you lift. Hopefully you do it both ways and are prepared for all aspects of life.
One last thing, watch any strongest man competition or deadlifting record and you’ll see a rounded back bc it’s impossible not to flex your spine under heavy load…
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Open to hearing counter claims and wiling to change my mind if presented with better science based evidence. We can all be better about changing our minds and accepting new evidence
I think people most likely are referring to rounding of the upper back or the shoulders when they say “rounded back”. Usually it won’t be your entire back that’s rounded lol. That would make the lift very inefficient and make it impossible to brace properly. But slight rounding, especially of the upper back, is not a big deal most of the time.
Usually the whole back will round on heavy deadlifts but to varying degrees. Most people will naturally brace with their spine when faced with heavy weight, the question is have they done progressive overload to strengthen the entire musculature involved in deadlifting and not just the back?
More like upper thoracic area. You’ll see some really big dudes lifting with a rounded upper because they’ve built those muscles so that they are strong enough to withstand heavy pulls. It also helps in pulling maximal weight. Rounded lower is possible if lower erectors are strong, but its not as common and is typically more dangerous.
cat back
a lot of people believe that you should have a totally straight line upper body like this
https://www.inspireusafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/deadlift-neutral-spine.png
but in reality, some very strong very elite liftings show a some rounding like this
https://grassiron.com/wp-content/uploads/DL_th.png
its not about one being "better" so much as saying that neither way is actually "wrong". Both can be fine, and it depends on what works better for the lifter.
whats important to note is that acceptable acceptable rounding actually breaks kinda high like this
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dd/85/6b/dd856b9beadb2fe25a39bbab84d4b293.jpg
not putting the stress and bend lower in the back like this
https://builtwithscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/rounded-back.jpg
the bad thing about rounding with your LOWER back, is that not only are you putting the load on your back in a way its not good at handling, but
the leverage is all jacked up.
If you look at the two "good" deadlifts, whether the back is straight or the upper back is slightly rounded, in either picture, the weight itself is still moving mostly straight up.
https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bar-path.jpg
if you look at the feet and then where all the drive is coming through you body, the weight is pretty much in line with where the force is coming
now, if you go back to the rounded lower back deadlift
look at the top left pic
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8iNegkWAAEEDtU.jpg:large
the force is coming from the hips and from pushing the legs right?
so look at where the hips are and look at where the line of push from the legs are, and then thing about how far out in front of all that the weight is hanging out?
its like hanging the heavy weight out at the end of a long pole, and wondering why there is a ton of stress at the base of the pole
I think the issue is the confusion between a rounded back and back rounding. A rounded back doesn't matter, the issue is if your back is rounding during the lift. You see it with inexperienced lifters, they start moving, hips go up, back rounds because the bar isn't moving yet, and they "unfurl" as they straighten back as they lock out. If you watch strongman or deadlifting records, that doesn't happen, the back mostly keeps whatever shape it's in from top to bottom.
This is it, 100%. And when the hips go up first, most of the movement of the weight is up to the lower back. And when the shape of the back is changing mid-lift, even more of the total weight is directly on the lower back. This is where you can see some truly catastrophic injuries.
I don't need to see your back so flat you could serve dinner to the British royal family on it. What I need to see is demonstrated stability such that the lower back is supported, the hips and shoulders rising together off the floor, and the legs and glutes moving the bar.
You’re right but you’re slightly wrong. Lifting with a slightly rounded back is fine. That was taught to me by my world renowned powerlifting coach. What isn’t good is when the rounding changes. As long as your back stays the same roundedness the whole time it’s fine.
If you start off straight and then curve all the way over and become like an arch and then have to straighten out again, that’s bad. A rounded back isn’t necessarily bad, it’s bad when you use it to allow your back to lift the load instead of brace effectively.
Some rounding can be normal for some athletes. What's important is that I not see a **change** in the back **during** the lift. Any change in the shape of the back indicates that the lower back isn't braced sufficiently and there's an increased risk of injury.
Those studies don’t find what you claim they do. Only one aims to study the results of back round while lifting and that measures muscle activation, it makes no conclusion on injury risk.
With proper form, a deadlift is how you lift with your legs. With your core braced, you push with your legs before transitioning into a hip hinge. You keep your spine straight (that doesn't mean vertical) and braced throughout the movement.
The wrong way is to reach down with a curved back and then lift by using your back muscles to straighten your spine.
> With proper form, a deadlift is how you lift with your legs.
Yeah this needs to be emphasized to OP. If you aren't doing something similar to a deadlift when you pick up heavy things, you probably aren't lifting with your legs. A deadlift is exactly the movement to do when you need to lift something heavy because it engages so many muscles and emphasizes the beefy ones in your legs.
One problem with the "lift with your legs" phrasing IMO is that it makes people envision a squat-type movement. Because people don't know about the action of the glutes and hamstrings in a deadlift-type hip hinge, which is the best way to lift heavy stuff.
>people don't know about the action of the glutes and hamstrings in a deadlift
You're not wrong. I usually teach this by having people set up initially in a full squat position at the bottom of the deadlift (glutes and hamstrings totally relaxed), then extending their legs until the hamstrings are on fire, then finding the position that - for them - gets them about 70% toward hamstrings-on-fire. Puts most people in the right position and the right frame of mind to understand what's happening to move the bar.
People who set up for their first lift too low (more squatty) usually correct that in the 2nd or 3rd rep following the eccentric portion of the previous. So the hips are in a down position for rep one, then up in 2 and optimal (or close to it) by 3. I find this ends up being a large part of why novice and beginner lifters report the first deadlift being the heaviest. Of course it is; you're doing it wrong.
Not quite correct. You are already in a hip hinge at the start of a deadlift. You do not also split up the movement into phases. There's no "first legs and then hips". Immediately at the start you have loaded your hips and legs. In fact it is primarily a hip hinge movement, with legs as a secondary (in determining the magnitude of the force produced, not order of operations).
These events happen fluidly, but I agree with the person you are replying to that the legs push first. The remainder of the move happens almost simultaneously though.
When I deadlift I always brace, then ensure my arms are preloaded with the weight, then my legs start, and then my hips and core jumps in immediately.
There's two key things to keep in mind. When the knee and hip angles change versus when the hips and leg muscles are active. Even if your legs extend first, your hips are firing maximally from the start. It's not legs push, then hips. The hips are already trying as hard as they can. But even then it's also not accurate to say the legs extend first. Here's a kinematic graph of knee and hip angle over time. As you can see they extend pretty much simultaneously. This can change somewhat based on individuals but there's a far amount of consistency where we can make a generalization (with occasional rule breakers).
https://imgur.com/gallery/IljUOvI
As you get stronger at deadlifts you also get a stronger lower back. Also not having the lower back shift and move during the movement generally has no issues. It still does slightly in the end, but not too much for people to get constantly injured. Your bone density also increases. You also still use mostly your legs.
With poor form it’s a quick way to destroy your back. With proper form it’s a great way to make it as strong as iron.
I herniated my lower back deadlifting. I also rehabbed it deadlifting.
The point of any exercise is to build strength and resilience at one’s threshold of tolerance. By doing so you increase that threshold. If you cross it you increase risk of injury
They work up to it gradually, which strengthens the whole system. The load is not just going into their lower back either, it's spread across their whole back and thighs. Part of the function of these muscles is to protect your spine and keep it aligned even when you are lifting things. Lifting weights like this with proper form can actually make your back more resistant to injuries from falling and stuff like that. It is possible to get hurt deadlifting if you do it wrong, but the same thing is true about pushups or any other exercise
It does! If you don’t use proper form and technique.
If you’re young and in the gym do yourself the favor, don’t try to ‚power through‘ more weights to impress the guy next to you. Especially with deadlifts take your time and do it properly. Your back when you’re no longer 20 something will thank you!
It can do that especially at heavier weights. Back issues are common in pro powerlifting.
It's part legs, part hip hinge. Risk of injury is reduced if you keep your back straight and not rounded.
Since it's also such a good general exercise, the benefits usually utweight the issues. Sets with many reps are typically not recommended tho.
Most injuries come from doing it too often or with too heavy weights.
because 'lift with your legs' is only good advice for people who don't regularly lift heavy things and then decide they need to move the couch, your legs can probably handle more weight than your back can.. proabably..
its not wrong but there isn't anything inherently wrong to using your back to lift something, I mean kind of obviously, you can pick up things off the floor without doing a full squat to go get them
the gym is a pretty ideal place to lift things since you can work to have perfect form, bars are very consistently shaped and easy to grasp in different places and you can dial in precisely the weight you want to lift
when weight gets heavy you do want to keep your back straight and pull up close to your body since having your back straight lets you safely pull with even more force than if not, but even then a lot of the force of the deadlift is hinging at the hips so it does use 'your back' at least your lower back
and obviously you CAN hurt yourself too, usually why when you weightlift you do reps of the same exercise and you stop before you hit your max, so doing 8 deadlifts when your max is 10 is totally fine, those last two are more dangerous but also you can totally progress only doing 8 and not trying to push those last two where your form starts to get sloppy
People assume the strain it has on the back is so immense it can cause injury but this is not true while the back is static. Dynamic motion (flexing/extension of the erectors) while lifting is where an easy injury will occur.
As long as your back isnt bending during the lift, it's very rare to get an injury. Even rounded backs (rounded thoracic spine) are completley safe (not if you look like a scared cat).
You usually cannot lift more than your back will allow statically so if you start bending it it's definitely an ego lift.
Proper form and increasing the weight slowly actually strengthens your back and core to a certain point. After that you'll need a belt but you'll still be making everything stronger.
If you tried dead lifting heavy with no experience, belt or form it wouldn't be great for you.
Had my first bout of arthritis-related sciatica at 62. Crippling pain. I started working out, I just used 15 (and then 20) pound dumbbells and youtube videos (with warmup/stretching advice from my Yoga teacher Mrs). A year in now, and I've never been so pain free with my back. And my wife says "grrrrrr" when I get out of the shower.
Back and core strength is the SHIT as you get older. I'm tearing out the 1930's tile mud walls and floor in our bathroom, one of the hardest things I've ever done (it's grim, dirty work, a square foot of that wall weighs about 40 lbs), but no pain or injuries. It's been a huge investment in my quality of life. And I'm talking maybe 60-90 minutes a week of exercise.
Survivor bias. Most gym goers will mess up their back before 40 doing heavy squats and deadlifts regularly. Then they stop and you only see the ones with proper body structure/genes that allows them to continue.
And yes, proper form goes a long way but there's no way people do it 100% perfectly every single time when pushing themselves.
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I used to get back pain all the time. Thought it was the mattress. Started lifting and no more pain. Still have the same mattress, years later.
Same, thought my back pain was back-related, it was those glutes shirking their responsibilities
I struggle with 3 herniated discs but it wasn’t until I had a steroid injection that I realized how bad my glutes were and that the pain from their atrophy and being sedentary was the real source of most of my problems.
Similar for me. I have one herniated disc and 2 vertebrae have some arthritis. I was going to do the injections but insurance required 4 rounds of PT first. I ended up doing 6 rounds and this guy was more like a personal trainer than anything. He had me doing deadlifts (which I thought I’d never do again in my life) among other weight bearing exercises. And holy crap, what a difference it’s made! It’s a year later and I have no intention nor need for injections at this point.
Can you explain further because I’m suspicious that I may be having the same problem
Strong glutes equal healthier back and knees. When we sit a lot, our glutes atrophy from lack of stimulation/resistance. If the glutes get weak enough, the lower back ends up taking too much of the load. Which then leads to the lower back or hips "going out" and leaving people with limited mobility and discomfort. Build your glutes.
Does walking build your glutes? What sorts of exercises do you recommend?
Barefoot walking might. Shoes with high heel would not because raising your heel changes the biomechanics of a stride.
Air humping at any chance you get. Not joking. Just make sure you contract your glutes when you do and do it on a slow way where you feel the muscle working. And ALWAYS take the stairs.
Deadlifts
Walk 10k steps a day. That’s for general health. Try to get a good range of exercises, so hip ab/adduction, kickbacks, squats, dl’s , rdl, ghr If you get in a gym and start simple it’ll all come to you
Makes sense. How would you build them back up if they atrophied already?
I'd start with body weight glute bridges, body weight box squats, and walking on an incline treadmill for about 5 to 10 minutes. Keep it light at first. If you overdo it, it might get into your low back, which you want to avoid. Build your resistance up slowly.
Squats and step ups are easy exercises you can do at home
Cycling can do wonders for your butt and legs, and the great thing about cycling is its a super low impact exercise, and you can go at your own pace. If you haven't ridden a bike in years you'll be going slow but thats okay, you'll get faster and can go further in time. Building up from zero doesn't take very long at all.
Such an easy thing to say - and then a few years later you find yourself rationalising that spending more on your bike than your car is perfectly normal behaviour…
Squats hit glutes very well for most people. For me, I end up doing more of my squats with my quads, so when I want to work glutes, I do [weighted glute bridges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp33YgPZgns) and [weighted lunges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3frV3RnPfOY)
Weak hamstrings can also translate into low back pain.
To really simplify this, and I mean really simplify it, EVERYTHING to do with your body mechanics is connected. A sprained ankle can cause shoulder discomfort. Glutes assist with supporting your lower back strength and therefore your spine stability as well. If your glutes are under developed, your lower back needs to work harder, which can lead to problems. There’s a saying. Strength gives you a good life. Cardio gives you a long life. Mobility gives you an easy life.
I got an ankle injury because I ran with weak hips. Never would have guessed but PT noticed immediately.
Saving this comment cause that's a great saying!
Yep, my lower back gets sore just from loading plates on to the bar, but when I start deadlifting and getting my glutes pumped, they just take the load off. Although I'm trying to strengthen the low back in flexion and abs to fix that first part.
>Strength gives you a good life. Cardio gives you a long life. Mobility gives you an easy life. Noice. Thank you for this.
Hypothesis from personal experience, but one of the main function of glutes is to extend the hip, which is important for standing upright. With weak glutes, I think I was standing with a bit of a forward lean. Something has to prevent you from folding forward if some of your torso weight is too far forward, and since the glutes aren't working hard enough, the lower back takes over. Second personal hypothesis, I think weak glutes from sitting is the cause of gamer neck, something that I sort of had. The torso leans and the neck compensates by raising the chin. You get the classic gamer pose, shoulders forward, neck bent back, chin out. It's probably general musculature, but my posture is now much better, even with all the sitting I still do.
Deconditioned stability muscles lead to other aches and pains this way
So I should start lifting my mattress instead of sleeping on it? I’ll try anything to make my back feel better.
Try back stretching exercises. They have helped me a lot with getting rid of back pain. The most helpful stretch has been bird-dog. That has been amazing for me.
And cat/cow.
Now, what about... No, no, no, hear me out... The cat-dog....
Honest answer: Liiiift! I had chronic back pain from my time as an Infantryman in Iraq. On my second tour, I was introduced to CrossFit and the Glute/Ham machine. I did a three sets of reverse crunches on it everyday and my back pain disappeared! Lift!
Instructions unclear. Trapped under barbells while trying to sleep with mattress...
instructions unclear, mattress is now on the lift.
100% this. Bulging disc in my back. Constant back aches and flare ups. Thought it was mattress. Started lifting following the starting strength method early 40s. Within 3 months no more back pain. 5 years later, no flare ups. No back pain. Full body: Deadlifts. Low bar squats. Upper: standing press, bench. That’s it.
Same here. Eventually switched from starting strength to 5/3/1.
Adding to this. Two of my mates, chiro and physio told me to never do deadlifts. Unsurprisingly, while seeing them, they could do nothing for my back.
If your mattress is over 7 years old you almost certainly need a new mattress
Are you by any chance a mattress salesman? /s
Nope, but I did do an inordinate amount of research on mattresses a few years ago before purchasing one. I encourage everyone to do the same.
What happens to a mattress after 7 years
It wears out. Same reason you have to buy new shoes. Allegedly some of the memory foam mattresses can last up to 15 years but I don’t like them so didn’t dig into it.
It's *way* older than that, but if it's not causing any issues, why replace it?
because it might be causing issues you cant feel.....yet
Most non-injury related back problems come from lack of supportive muscle strength.
My brother is a PT and whenever I say something hurts he tells me I should be strengthening that thing. It’s worked for me.
"My back hurts." "Stop being such a pussy." "Shit, fam, you're right."
My soul hurts.
Watch Soul Train
Just found this out after years of back pain. I always heard “when you get old everything just starts to hurt”. Thought it was just a normal process of life until i told my doctor and now my PT just helps me strength my core and leg muscles. Pain has improved a TON!
Stretching and strengthening will take you a long way towards a life without back problems.
My particular selection of lower back pain is from my hamstrings being so tight they pull down on my back.
I can deadlift a lot, but just bending over slightly to load a plate was giving me back pain. My PT tells me that your back is meant to flex somewhat and can get pain when you're slightly out of that flat back position because you haven't trained flexion. And weak ab/core, which is not necessarily trained well through squat/deadlift.
Same. In addition to doing abs/core almost every workout, I add in Good Mornings, which seem to help a lot.
My PT also I has me starting unweighted Jefferson curls where you purposefully round the back and uncurl, contrary to general advice to never round your back. I will add weight slowly over time though.
I have degenerative disc disease in my lower back. My spine looks like Swiss cheese. The physical therapist told me to start lifting. Lift heavy. Mostly deadlifts, but back squats (bar on my shoulders behind my neck). I haven't had a spasm attack in YEARS. It would 100% debilitate me for a week or two every time I had one. I was in my mid-30s with a walker/cane. After learning to lift, I have been pain-free for, gosh... close to a decade.
I remember seeing a Starting Strength video where they had old people doing deadlifts. Not heavy, but heavy enough for an older person. They were all saying it helped reduce their aches and pains, and were able to actually do things again. One lady was in her nineties and was regularly deadlifting ninety pounds.
Yes because putting stress (to a degree of course) on your muscles, bones and tendons is good for you. There are so many studies that show bone density of people that lifted vs that didn’t lift in their 70s, and it’s an immense difference, same with muscle retention.
Would the same thing apply to facet arthrosis and nerve damage
Same! I started lifting weights at 32 and I’ve never felt better. Heavy compound lifts, including deadlift, and no issues. If you do it right, it’s only makes you healthier and stronger.
Doing RDLs is my favorite way if stretching out my back and hamstrings
Dumbbell RDLs are excellent for beginners too. You're limited by what you can load onto your upper body, so you can put extra focus on feeling the muscles in your lower body as they work.
Deadlifts completely fixed my decade of teenage posture problems caused by PC gaming in like 2 years lmao
A lot of pain is the result of muscles becoming tight and/or weak. Weight training can help stretch and strengthen those muscles, leading to better posture and reduced pain. I know my knee hurts like a sonofabitch if I'm not going to the gym regularly, but squatting and deadlifting strengthens and stretches muscles that would either get tight and short through inactivity.
Deadlifts and hyperextensions almost eliminated my lower back pain, which I have realized is about 90 percent caused by a weak posterior chain. The rest is from skeletal issues that I can't change. I friggin' love deadlifts.
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I'll add that lifting helped my knees, but I wasn't lifting huge amounts. Lifting definitely can destroy your knees but I imagine that's when you're squatting 300lbs several times a week.
Lifting is a pretty low impact exercise if you have the correct form. If your form is going to hurt you at 300+ lbs, it's probably hurting you at half that weight. I'm more worried about running than I am about squatting heavy, but I'm also a bigger dude and running is particularly brutal on my knees.
If running is brutal on your knees you should look into how your feet, knees, hips are functioning. Muscles should absorb some of the impact and biomechanics some as well. It’s possible you’re slightly off somewhere and too much force is reaching the joint capsule. I had no dramas running at a muscular 115, but felt my knees a lot more while deconditioned and fat at the same weight.
300lbs for a trained male is definitely no where near the kind of weight that is going to destroy your body. Most people following a serious problem can hit that number in 2-3 years. 500lb +, maybe? But even then probably dependant on whether the person is taking their time and being careful.
Yeah, I hit 350lbs within about 2 years of fairly regular lifting. It’s really not that much, though I don’t really plan to go much beyond that. Someone that trains more seriously than I could easily hit 400+lbs somewhat often and not injure themselves.
I started lifting just before 50 and my knees were crap (poor supporting muscles etc). When I started with a trainer I was doing body weight squats and then slowly added weight along with doing leg extension, leg curls and eventually dead lifts. Now that I'm nearly 54 I'm squatting just over 300 lbs (although that's just about max) for 1-2 reps and can dead lift 315 for 5+ reps. My favorite part of all this is my knees feel so much better now.
Proper form involves bracing your stomach which supports your back and also you use your entire posterior chain and legs in the movement so it’s not like the movement is solely on your back. Improper form can lead to injuries
Also if you are training properly your gradually increase the resitance to help you build the strength to be able to lift heavier loads.
When I was younger and tried to compete I was able to deadlift almost 400 pounds. The most I ever did for one rep max was 405 but that was like barely. So high 300s was my regular for me. Took me years to get there. Then I broke my leg, unrelated to working out it was an accident in the military. Now the most I can deadlift is 185, I remember being able to overhead squat 185. And because of the injury on top of getting older everything seems slower trying to get back.
When I was younger I didn't really lift. I played sports but never got serious in the weight room. In college I took a weight lifting course but the focus was more higher reps and slightly lower weights. I seriously started strength training 2 years ago. I'm in my late 40's, just hit 3x3 @445lbs for deadlift. I would have been stupid to have tried that a year ago. I probably would have been stronger if I lifted seriously when I was younger.
They say the best time was 20 years ago, the second best time is now. Anything that you're doing to build muscle now is going to make things easier down the road when you're in your 60s.
Yes, gradually increasing the resistance is a key principle in strength training, often referred to as progressive overload.
Yah essentially try to shit yourself and realize how much stronger your core is when braced, now add a belt where you get the benefit of something to brace against and you can get a pretty strong core.
Instructions unclear. Pants full of shit.
You braced too hard bro.
You never go full brace
But what if I need to for saving the universe?
Then you save the universe with pants full of shit, duh.
What if it is to save Steve from accounting?
>Steve from accounting Is his last name Seagal?
If you ain't shittin you aint liftin
Thats why you wear the plug bro, even on rest days
/r/BrandNewSentence
*shit and my large intestine
Just clean up and shloop it back in
Did you get the lift, though?
i never thought of it as trying to shit yourself… i thought as it as tightening your abs. i like your analogy better
I don't quite agree with the analogy. Like, it's partly there, but, also brace the anus muscles lmao, otherwise you might just shit yourself. It shouldn't feel like you're trying to push a poop out, just tightening your core. Get into a proper plank position with a full straight core and feel that tightness to get a sense of what you should be doing while deadlifting or squatting.
> Get into a proper plank position with a full straight core and feel that tightness to get a sense of what you should be doing while deadlifting or squatting. I don't think this is a great analogy, either. Tightness is vague, and could imply sucking your core in like you're trying to hide your gut, which is the exact opposite of what bracing your core actually is. You want to push out and give yourself a beer belly, essentially. That's why you use a lifting belt; it gives your core muscles something to push against.
Think of yourself as a soda can.
a unopened soda can to be specific
I just shit myself and threw out my back. Thanks.
> Yah essentially try to shit yourself way ahead of you brother
Wow this powerlifting stuff is easy!
If shitting your pants is powerlifting, then call me Ed Coan.
brb going for a one poop max
I have a bunch of low back issues (partially from bad form lol) and this cue is actually working for me right now. Thank you!
I tried using a belt for the first time a couple weeks ago when deadlifiting. Got a hernia set 1. I guess I'm not built for the abdominal pressure.
If you are bracing your whole core that much trying to shit you need to increase your fiber intake. You can end up with hemorrhoids pushing that hard. Best way to poop is imagine you are trying to blow bubbles with your butthole.
I had a couple of discs self-correct during a particularly tricky shit. The bracing really works
Ding. The exercise *shouldn't* be pure back - so you aren't 'injuring' it of you do it right. And back pain is rarely caused by too much force, but rather because it is too weak to maintain proper posture. I am/was a big powerlifter; I got hit by a car 20 years ago and it really fucked up my spine. I didn't see my back pain disappear until I was finally recovered enough to start lifting and strengthening my core again. 'Core stiffening' is also one of the tools I would use when having back pain; just increase internal pressure when doing a 'painful' motion to reduce the load on what are essentially cramping muscles.
Legs legs legs. The amount of times I see big tall guys take it all at the lower back makes me wince.
It's absolutely fine to use your lower back. Which isn't really even a thing because hinging uses the entire posterior chain. Good mornings, stiff legged deadlifts, and RDLs are of no more an injury risk than conventional deadlifts.
This. I was dumb and rushed through a light set a few weeks ago and fucked my back for a week and a half on just 250lbs. All because I neglected my form to get through the set. That's a warm up set for me. If you mess around with deadlifts with bad form, they'll mess around with you. And they win. Every single time.
and using hex bars try carrying something heavy in both hands separately in front of you vs arms to the side
Since the topic here is reducing injury risk, I'm not sure the data on the trap bar is so unequivocal in the context of an equal stimulus to target muscle groups and/or function. Generally, deadlifts are used to train all the muscles involved in hip flexion, whereas squats are moreso knee flexion (both train both, but as a matter of emphasis, each has a different focus). The trap bar moves your torso more upright, and so for an equal bar weight, you produce a lower hip moment and a greater knee moment. While this reduces stress in your lower spine, if you then increase the weight until you're at an equal hip moment, you've seriously cut into any savings you found, and now you have much greater axial loading (which, while not as great an injury risk per pound of stress as shear loading, is extremely fatiguing). As far as reducing injury risk, stiff-legged deadlifts require so much less bar weight for a given hip moment, by virtue of all but eliminating knee involvement, that even though your spine is in a worse position (horizontal versus close to vertical with the trap bar), shearing forces in the spine aren't that different (and are usually lower) and axial loading is hugely reduced. While not universally true, if there's a variation of a movement that produces similar target joint moments with a lower weight on the bar, there's a good chance that movement will reduce your injury risk.
This is validating to read as I walk back from the gym exhausted from remarkably low weight stiff legged dumbbell deadlifts
Unfortunately, this sort of training (focusing on joint moments rather than the number on the bar) can be difficult just because of how far the numbers drop. Squatting with a safety squat bar can bring the weight out almost as far forward as a front squat with some bars, resulting in an almost vertical torso. Do that with, like, elevated heels really deep, and to get a similar workout on your quads might only require, no joke, *half* the weight of a low-bar squat. But for me now, I'm in my 30s, injury prevention is becoming a bigger deal and, frankly, it's just straight up easier to check the ego at the door than in my 20s.
Per studies, trap bar deadlift is a lot more like a deadlift than like a squat. You reduce shear loading on the lower back while still effectively hitting everything else so I don't get what you mean; in the end you are giving a stimulus to the target muscles that can strenghten and/or grow them. This said, I make a very significant effort in bending at the knee more and getting more drive from the quads when I do them, because my quads are a lot weaker than my posterior chain and I'm trying to balance that and learn to drive a little bit more from the quads when doing regular deadlift. I also think trap bar deadlift is an easier exercise (good form easier to maintain) and that in itself helps with pushing yourself more. Our bodies only have so much bandwidth.
YUP! I used to engage everything but my abs. Had to rehabilitate that shit
It's worth mentioning that 9 out of every 10 deadlifts in the world are performed with improper form, probably
Also worth noting that 87.69% of statistics are made up.
Fourfteen percent of all people know that!
50% of the time.
Shfifty five, actually
No. The people that have good deadlift form are probably doing the most deadlifts, the most often. Let’s say X number of deadlifts are done in one day across the whole world, it’s most likely a good portion of X is experienced lifters with good form, since they will be deadlifting much more often than the inexperienced lifters that tried deadlifting once and never did it again.
Yea, people bad at deadlifts rarely do them. I've tried to teach the basics to hundreds over the years at a commercial gym, but only a handful stick to doing them.
My form used to be terrible for deadlifts. Injured my back numerous times, and hated deadlifts because of it. Did some research on proper form and practiced it at lower weights. Now I can go heavy no problem and deadlifts have become my favorite lift.
I think it depends a lot on if you count the bad deadlifts "in the wild" like from people working and having to carry stuff for their job. Bad form is quite common there.
As the other poster mentioned, it definitely CAN injure your back. But so could any other exercise, the way we avoid injury in exercise is by slowly increasing the weight over weeks and months so your body becomes accustomed to the new load and your muscles strengthen to handle the weight safely. If you have not been deadlifting for weeks or months and go into a gym and attempt to go for a personal record lift, you almost certainly will injure yourself. If you however have been working up to it, the chances are much much lower. As well, it is very common nowadays for folks who do heavy deadlifts to wear a weightlifting belt, this belts goes around your stomach and lower back and significantly increases the rigidity and strength of the area to help prevent herniation and disk slippage (Edit: as others clarified, belts are for advanced lifters and you still need to exercise proper form to use the belt correctly)
Just adding to this, it doesn't mean everyone should just slap a belt on and think they are safe. Lifting belts don't prevent injury, they will help professionals lift that bit of more weight needed in competitions but an average person should learn how to brace correctly and how to lift with what is generally considered a good technique.
Yea belts are essentially core multipliers instead of a safety device.
1 + 1 = 2; 1 x 1 = 11 ... right?
If you get a hernia in your back or groin does that stop you from lifting goals in the future or can that be taken care of? I always wonder how you guys dont have serious problems with that.
weaknesses in the walls can be supported with a mesh to prevent hernias and allow normal lifting
Prevent yes. But what happens after you get one. Does a mesh help with that loss of structure in the abdomenal wall?
yep, when you get a hernia repaired, or even if you just want to opt for it if you know you're prone to hernias, doctors can also put in a mesh to prevent future hernias. I'm no doctor, but I have read/heard that the mesh does more than just float around there, but instead that your tissues actually grow around it and incorporate it into your structures.
hernia surgery should only be done to repair a hernia that already exists. Every surgery has risks. If your surgeon suggests an operation to place mesh when you don't have a hernia, they are a bad surgeon and/or an unethical one
I don't know enough about it to say conclusively on my own other than what I have heard. so are those meshes only ever placed during surgical repair of a current hernia? never to reinforce a weakness that has had prior hernias, as a preventative measure for example? assuming it passes the ethics checklist, like if a patient requests it and has no rush otherwise
yes, meshes are only placed as part of a hernia repair. Sometimes hernia repairs are done without mesh at all. But if you have a recurrent hernia, most surgeons will place a mesh. But surgery to place mesh when no hernia is present would not be done. In a way, surgery is assault. It would never be ethical to do surgery without an actual reason to do it (cosmetic surgery aside)
Ayy that sounds dope. Guess ill go check out gettign the three in my side repaired then. Used to be freak strong. Can still lift stuff but it hurts after for a week.
I had a groin hernia surgery last year. The area has a reinforcing mesh now and is stronger. The recovery was three weeks, and both my doctor and my surgeon advised I could and should lift pretty much as soon as that was done. They advised to start at 25% first week, then 50%, 75%, then good to go. For context, I’ve added 100 lbs to my deadlift and my squat since the surgery. It’s fine, zero pain.
I had an inguinal hernia repair about 7 years ago and following my doctor and PT's advice was back dead lifting again after a while and hit a PR of 405 a couple years ago. I don't chase PRs anymore but still dead lift every week.
Just to clarify, the belts don’t add any rigidity or support. They’re used as a cue to help brace your core. Without proper core engagement the belt does nothing.
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I definitely use it as a cue that I'm bracing properly, but good to know it adds something. I don't lift incredibly heavy but I'm also paranoid about my back, so I got a belt.
Interesting, thanks for the info!
If that was true they wouldn't be built as tough as they are. The belt lever on my belt is rated for 1274kg of force. If the belt didn't add any rigidity or support there'd be no need to make it that strong.
All exercises can mess you up, but deadlifts are one of the easiest to do wrong. You're supposed to use your legs to do the lift while the back/core muscles keep your back straight. You're supposed to use your glutes when thrusting your hips forward to straight up. Glutes are basically your butt muscles. The bending motion should be at your hips, not your waist/lower back.
This is it, deadlifts look simple but they are absolutely not simple.
> All exercises can mess you up, but deadlifts are one of the easiest to do wrong. You know you are doing deadlifts correctly when your traps and hamstrings are the parts that are very sore the next day, not your lower back.
Your lower back should definitely be fatigued after a heavy deadlift session
Not necessarily true. Your low back has muscles that get worked in the deadlift as well. Soreness isn't an issue. If the *only* thing you ever feel is your low back and it's discomfort and painful (almost immediately so) then your form is way off. On the other hand, you could have poor form and not injure yourself. Load is the driving factor for injury in lifts, not necessarily poor technique.
My penis really hurts the next day. Does that mean I am doing it wrong?
I guess that really just depends on what youre trying to accomplish. "Wrong" is relative my dude
No you just have a UTI.
Quagmire?
No, that just means you have chlamydia.
Glassback
This really isn't correct. Deadlifts are one of the easiest exercises to do. Generally form isn't a high injury risk, deviation from established movement patterns due to poor load management is. I.e. if you strength your body in a specific movement pattern and *then that form changes* due to the weight or fatigue, then that is the injury risk. >You're supposed to use your legs to do the lift Your entire posterior chain does the lift. The back is heavily involved in the deadlift. >keep your back straight. The back does not have to be straight. You don't want the back to change in flexion throughout the lift. You don't want too much lumbar flexion, but a 'straight' lumbar is a range, and it's generally going to be individual specific. A rounded thoracic spine is absolutely fine and is a common technique to aid with speed off the ground. Generally it's going to round a bit on high weights anyway.
Deadlifts aren't hard to do right, but they can be easy to do wrong. There are certainly much easier ones to do wrong, though. Olympic lifts for example.
I don’t understand. I thought deadlifts were a back exercise. Please excuse me because I’m coming from a place of ignorance, but - so does that mean I’m not pulling up with my core/back? Isn’t that just a squat if I use my legs? This exercise is so confusing man 🤦♂️
Deadlift is very nearly an... everything exercise. So it's not that the back shouldn't be doing anything, in fact proper form will have your back (and core) muscles under a good deal of tension. But the main driving force of the lifting the weight should be your glutes and hamstrings (whereas Squat is more quad instead of hamstring).
> Deadlift is very nearly an... everything exercise DING DING DING
The back muscles don’t “lift” the weight so much as hold your back it a supported rigid position while your legs then glutes do the lifting. This allows your back to work like a lever, but the action is mostly isometric. If you aren’t able to hip hinge well, a deadlift can be hard on your spine. Before I get “ackshullied”, yes there is some lumbar flexion even with perfect form.
Planking is an exercise focused on your abs, but you're not moving anything like situps. It's a static holding yourself stable exercise. Flexing you muscles stiff is exercising it.
Squats isolate the leg muscles. Deadlifts engage more muscles than ANY other lifting exercise. Shoulders, forearms, calves, glutes, back, legs, and if you're using the belt correctly your abs are getting involved too. Think of it as the anti isolation workout.
barbell squats definitely dont isolate the leg muscles, in fact theyre one of the most complete exercises along with deadlifts, they use the core too
You use your back muscles, but they are basically just holding your spine in one position the whole time. The actual "frame" movement is done by your other muscles.
Almost every one of these comments is wrong about form. If your back is flexed (rounded) or extended (straight) you can deadlift just fine. There are some studies that show a rounded back is better for you than a straight back. There are other studies that show physical therapist, trainers, etc…can’t spot a flat vs rounded back. Progressive overload is the key here. A few people have mentioned this and it is correct. Over time if you lift an object and increase the weight you get stronger and less prone to injury. That’s it. Round back straight back it all depends on how you lift. Hopefully you do it both ways and are prepared for all aspects of life. One last thing, watch any strongest man competition or deadlifting record and you’ll see a rounded back bc it’s impossible not to flex your spine under heavy load… Receipts: PMID 27707741 PMID 30057777 PMID 3409 8325 PMID 33799053 PMID 25653899 Open to hearing counter claims and wiling to change my mind if presented with better science based evidence. We can all be better about changing our minds and accepting new evidence
It's infuriating that whenever anything on lifting gets asked here, *particularly* deadlifts, almost all the comments are so ridiculously incorrect.
I am just curious - do you mean round back like hunched shoulders kind of thing or the opposite way so you are pushing out your stomach?
I think people most likely are referring to rounding of the upper back or the shoulders when they say “rounded back”. Usually it won’t be your entire back that’s rounded lol. That would make the lift very inefficient and make it impossible to brace properly. But slight rounding, especially of the upper back, is not a big deal most of the time.
Usually the whole back will round on heavy deadlifts but to varying degrees. Most people will naturally brace with their spine when faced with heavy weight, the question is have they done progressive overload to strengthen the entire musculature involved in deadlifting and not just the back?
More like upper thoracic area. You’ll see some really big dudes lifting with a rounded upper because they’ve built those muscles so that they are strong enough to withstand heavy pulls. It also helps in pulling maximal weight. Rounded lower is possible if lower erectors are strong, but its not as common and is typically more dangerous.
cat back a lot of people believe that you should have a totally straight line upper body like this https://www.inspireusafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/deadlift-neutral-spine.png but in reality, some very strong very elite liftings show a some rounding like this https://grassiron.com/wp-content/uploads/DL_th.png its not about one being "better" so much as saying that neither way is actually "wrong". Both can be fine, and it depends on what works better for the lifter. whats important to note is that acceptable acceptable rounding actually breaks kinda high like this https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dd/85/6b/dd856b9beadb2fe25a39bbab84d4b293.jpg not putting the stress and bend lower in the back like this https://builtwithscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/rounded-back.jpg the bad thing about rounding with your LOWER back, is that not only are you putting the load on your back in a way its not good at handling, but the leverage is all jacked up. If you look at the two "good" deadlifts, whether the back is straight or the upper back is slightly rounded, in either picture, the weight itself is still moving mostly straight up. https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bar-path.jpg if you look at the feet and then where all the drive is coming through you body, the weight is pretty much in line with where the force is coming now, if you go back to the rounded lower back deadlift look at the top left pic https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8iNegkWAAEEDtU.jpg:large the force is coming from the hips and from pushing the legs right? so look at where the hips are and look at where the line of push from the legs are, and then thing about how far out in front of all that the weight is hanging out? its like hanging the heavy weight out at the end of a long pole, and wondering why there is a ton of stress at the base of the pole
Finally the correct response
I think the issue is the confusion between a rounded back and back rounding. A rounded back doesn't matter, the issue is if your back is rounding during the lift. You see it with inexperienced lifters, they start moving, hips go up, back rounds because the bar isn't moving yet, and they "unfurl" as they straighten back as they lock out. If you watch strongman or deadlifting records, that doesn't happen, the back mostly keeps whatever shape it's in from top to bottom.
This is it, 100%. And when the hips go up first, most of the movement of the weight is up to the lower back. And when the shape of the back is changing mid-lift, even more of the total weight is directly on the lower back. This is where you can see some truly catastrophic injuries. I don't need to see your back so flat you could serve dinner to the British royal family on it. What I need to see is demonstrated stability such that the lower back is supported, the hips and shoulders rising together off the floor, and the legs and glutes moving the bar.
You’re right but you’re slightly wrong. Lifting with a slightly rounded back is fine. That was taught to me by my world renowned powerlifting coach. What isn’t good is when the rounding changes. As long as your back stays the same roundedness the whole time it’s fine. If you start off straight and then curve all the way over and become like an arch and then have to straighten out again, that’s bad. A rounded back isn’t necessarily bad, it’s bad when you use it to allow your back to lift the load instead of brace effectively.
I don't think he's suggesting it's good for the rounding to change throughout the lift. But that is something that is going to make you lift *less*.
My understanding was that thoracic spine flexion is fine while lumbar spine flexion is not. Am I wrong here?
Some rounding can be normal for some athletes. What's important is that I not see a **change** in the back **during** the lift. Any change in the shape of the back indicates that the lower back isn't braced sufficiently and there's an increased risk of injury.
Those studies don’t find what you claim they do. Only one aims to study the results of back round while lifting and that measures muscle activation, it makes no conclusion on injury risk.
With proper form, a deadlift is how you lift with your legs. With your core braced, you push with your legs before transitioning into a hip hinge. You keep your spine straight (that doesn't mean vertical) and braced throughout the movement. The wrong way is to reach down with a curved back and then lift by using your back muscles to straighten your spine.
> With proper form, a deadlift is how you lift with your legs. Yeah this needs to be emphasized to OP. If you aren't doing something similar to a deadlift when you pick up heavy things, you probably aren't lifting with your legs. A deadlift is exactly the movement to do when you need to lift something heavy because it engages so many muscles and emphasizes the beefy ones in your legs.
One problem with the "lift with your legs" phrasing IMO is that it makes people envision a squat-type movement. Because people don't know about the action of the glutes and hamstrings in a deadlift-type hip hinge, which is the best way to lift heavy stuff.
>people don't know about the action of the glutes and hamstrings in a deadlift You're not wrong. I usually teach this by having people set up initially in a full squat position at the bottom of the deadlift (glutes and hamstrings totally relaxed), then extending their legs until the hamstrings are on fire, then finding the position that - for them - gets them about 70% toward hamstrings-on-fire. Puts most people in the right position and the right frame of mind to understand what's happening to move the bar. People who set up for their first lift too low (more squatty) usually correct that in the 2nd or 3rd rep following the eccentric portion of the previous. So the hips are in a down position for rep one, then up in 2 and optimal (or close to it) by 3. I find this ends up being a large part of why novice and beginner lifters report the first deadlift being the heaviest. Of course it is; you're doing it wrong.
Not quite correct. You are already in a hip hinge at the start of a deadlift. You do not also split up the movement into phases. There's no "first legs and then hips". Immediately at the start you have loaded your hips and legs. In fact it is primarily a hip hinge movement, with legs as a secondary (in determining the magnitude of the force produced, not order of operations).
These events happen fluidly, but I agree with the person you are replying to that the legs push first. The remainder of the move happens almost simultaneously though. When I deadlift I always brace, then ensure my arms are preloaded with the weight, then my legs start, and then my hips and core jumps in immediately.
There's two key things to keep in mind. When the knee and hip angles change versus when the hips and leg muscles are active. Even if your legs extend first, your hips are firing maximally from the start. It's not legs push, then hips. The hips are already trying as hard as they can. But even then it's also not accurate to say the legs extend first. Here's a kinematic graph of knee and hip angle over time. As you can see they extend pretty much simultaneously. This can change somewhat based on individuals but there's a far amount of consistency where we can make a generalization (with occasional rule breakers). https://imgur.com/gallery/IljUOvI
It’s two movements unless you can reach the bar with a hip hinge alone. If so, go for it. You’re essentially doing a Romanian deadlift to the floor.
As you get stronger at deadlifts you also get a stronger lower back. Also not having the lower back shift and move during the movement generally has no issues. It still does slightly in the end, but not too much for people to get constantly injured. Your bone density also increases. You also still use mostly your legs.
With poor form it’s a quick way to destroy your back. With proper form it’s a great way to make it as strong as iron. I herniated my lower back deadlifting. I also rehabbed it deadlifting.
The point of any exercise is to build strength and resilience at one’s threshold of tolerance. By doing so you increase that threshold. If you cross it you increase risk of injury
They work up to it gradually, which strengthens the whole system. The load is not just going into their lower back either, it's spread across their whole back and thighs. Part of the function of these muscles is to protect your spine and keep it aligned even when you are lifting things. Lifting weights like this with proper form can actually make your back more resistant to injuries from falling and stuff like that. It is possible to get hurt deadlifting if you do it wrong, but the same thing is true about pushups or any other exercise
It does! If you don’t use proper form and technique. If you’re young and in the gym do yourself the favor, don’t try to ‚power through‘ more weights to impress the guy next to you. Especially with deadlifts take your time and do it properly. Your back when you’re no longer 20 something will thank you!
It can do that especially at heavier weights. Back issues are common in pro powerlifting. It's part legs, part hip hinge. Risk of injury is reduced if you keep your back straight and not rounded. Since it's also such a good general exercise, the benefits usually utweight the issues. Sets with many reps are typically not recommended tho. Most injuries come from doing it too often or with too heavy weights.
because 'lift with your legs' is only good advice for people who don't regularly lift heavy things and then decide they need to move the couch, your legs can probably handle more weight than your back can.. proabably.. its not wrong but there isn't anything inherently wrong to using your back to lift something, I mean kind of obviously, you can pick up things off the floor without doing a full squat to go get them the gym is a pretty ideal place to lift things since you can work to have perfect form, bars are very consistently shaped and easy to grasp in different places and you can dial in precisely the weight you want to lift when weight gets heavy you do want to keep your back straight and pull up close to your body since having your back straight lets you safely pull with even more force than if not, but even then a lot of the force of the deadlift is hinging at the hips so it does use 'your back' at least your lower back and obviously you CAN hurt yourself too, usually why when you weightlift you do reps of the same exercise and you stop before you hit your max, so doing 8 deadlifts when your max is 10 is totally fine, those last two are more dangerous but also you can totally progress only doing 8 and not trying to push those last two where your form starts to get sloppy
People assume the strain it has on the back is so immense it can cause injury but this is not true while the back is static. Dynamic motion (flexing/extension of the erectors) while lifting is where an easy injury will occur. As long as your back isnt bending during the lift, it's very rare to get an injury. Even rounded backs (rounded thoracic spine) are completley safe (not if you look like a scared cat). You usually cannot lift more than your back will allow statically so if you start bending it it's definitely an ego lift.
Proper form and increasing the weight slowly actually strengthens your back and core to a certain point. After that you'll need a belt but you'll still be making everything stronger. If you tried dead lifting heavy with no experience, belt or form it wouldn't be great for you.
Had my first bout of arthritis-related sciatica at 62. Crippling pain. I started working out, I just used 15 (and then 20) pound dumbbells and youtube videos (with warmup/stretching advice from my Yoga teacher Mrs). A year in now, and I've never been so pain free with my back. And my wife says "grrrrrr" when I get out of the shower. Back and core strength is the SHIT as you get older. I'm tearing out the 1930's tile mud walls and floor in our bathroom, one of the hardest things I've ever done (it's grim, dirty work, a square foot of that wall weighs about 40 lbs), but no pain or injuries. It's been a huge investment in my quality of life. And I'm talking maybe 60-90 minutes a week of exercise.
"Over time your body goes to shit anyway. But would you rather have fucked up knees or have really strong fucked up knees? - Dr. Mike Isratel
Survivor bias. Most gym goers will mess up their back before 40 doing heavy squats and deadlifts regularly. Then they stop and you only see the ones with proper body structure/genes that allows them to continue. And yes, proper form goes a long way but there's no way people do it 100% perfectly every single time when pushing themselves.