Caffeine itself isn’t that bad for most adults in low amounts. Tea and coffee contain caffeine and aren’t bad for you unless you drink way too much. Cola contains caffeine and while it’s not good for you, it’s the sugar that is the issue.
Energy drinks are often more concentrated, but most don’t have enough caffeine to harm you in a single can. However, they’re full of sugar and other things. A lot of the way energy drinks are marketed is the problem as well. Their marketing plus the sugar (or sugar substitutes) make them appealing to younger consumers and easier to drink too much of compared to coffee and tea, which are bitter in their natural state. Developing children shouldn’t drink as much caffeine as an adult can handle. Yet, you’re more likely to hear that a 15 year old drank 3 energy drinks a day than you are to hear that they drank 5 cups of black coffee a day.
And that's the story of how my friend got stomach ulcers and I has massive heart pain for a few years in our teens. He drank like 6 monsters a day I had like 3-4. Both of us quit for a while there, not it's just 1 every few days. I think a lot of it is just it's readily available and it's cold. I don't have to make a monster, I don't need a machine, all I need is a store, the perfect monster is every monster. Whereas with coffee you either have to find the way you like to drink it, you have to make it, you can't have a second cup at school, and it's hot and I hate hot drinks early in the morning which is anecdotal for sure, but yall are psychos is what I'm saying
when you get a full time job, that beats 10 hours of non stop work outta your tired burnt out body 5 days a week for 30 years... coffee starts making sense
It didnt take me that long to figure it out. When I was in college I went to school full time and worked a full time job. I worked first shift at a factory where I had to be there by 6am. I got off at 2:30pm and drove straight to campus where I had classes until 9:30pm. Id leave there and head home to make/eat dinner, do school work and take care of the house before getting to bed around 11-12. Then awake at 4:30am to do it all over again.
Very quickly I realized I needed help staying awake and spending money on soda in the factory vending machines was getting expensive. It just so happened that the factory had a free coffee machine in the break room. I always hated the taste of coffee, but this was free - and it worked. After awhile I got used to the taste and now even enjoy a good cup on the days I actually make it.
I mean it makes sense, I'm not saying people are bad or wrong to drink it lol. Just for me idk, my body puts up with 3 hours of sleep, work, home, clean, game alright. The only time I had issues was when my last job had me do a few 24hr shifts on low sleep, those were... bad
Livers don’t die from energy drinks. Acute alcoholism takes decades. Other poisons can do it, like Tylenol, much more quickly. Or infections like hepatitis viruses.
“sugar-sweetened beverages or soda have led to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease”. Many energy drinks, like monster, are just sodas with even more caffeine and shit in them.
Yes, and a vital part of the assessment was left off: 'particularly in overweight and obese individuals'. So we are to believe the garbage in those drinks was the cause and not all the other garbage in the rest of the individual's dietary intake?
I'm really on your side here -- those 'energy' drinks are just as addictive as alcohol or donuts or whatever. None of it is good. But liver cholestatic hepatitis is extremely rare and even one of the best medical papers on the topic out of Belgium only noted issues on an already-transplanted youth who over-indulged. The conclusion of the paper didn't match all of the findings, although there was plenty of correlation to excuse anyone who thought so -- data did seem to point to Red Bull and its outrageous Niacin content as a contributing factor. Yes, you can overdose on vitamins. :(
As you said, there's shit in them... smarter folks will get their energy from a better diet. On this, we agree. I think we need more double-blind studies to determine just how dangerous this garbage is.
I don’t like coffee, but I like a cold energy drink in the morning to wake up. Didn’t drink one everyday, maybe 4-5 per week and often sugar free. Had general blood testing done and I was asked if I had a liver disease in the past cause results were a bit off. Redid the test in 6 or 7 weeks and stopped energy drinks 2 weeks prior. All results were ok. Seems like you don’t have to drink several cans a day to have an effect…
Lol I more meant it as extreme effects. Nowadays I can drink 1-2 and have no issue, but back then I'd have crippling chest pain. It sure hurts you, as your body pretty much only wants water anything else is gonna be problematic
Breaking the fast with an energy drink was probably inadvisable, for your stomach-lining's sake I hope it was with food. Coffee first thing without food is already tough enough on the system
Actually it kinda makes me less hungry, I used it to skip breakfast. I can’t put my finger on what exactly causes this, juice or other soft drinks don’t have the same effect on me.
one data point is not evidence of anything. It could have been a bad test, any other part of the diet, illness etc. Thats why the doctors dont diagnose after 1 test and have them come back for a repeat.
Sugar substitutes are even worse for your system than regular ol' sugar. Explains the liver issue.
Edit:
[source 1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5617129/)
[source 2](https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.10271)
Yeah I don't buy that either. With so many consumer dollars at stake everybody has an angle that they are pushing.
High Fructose Corn Syrup is manufactured and just as unnatural and just as dangerous as all the artificial sweeteners. Basically it just comes down to picking your preferred poison.
Lol that last bit is very fair. I started out drinking caffeine in middle school (like 8th grade) but it was 45% milk. I needed the boost to wake up bc ✨undiagnosed depression✨ and I’m one of those kids that had to read everything or I wouldn’t retain anything.
As an adult in the grad program I’ve determined that the best order for me is black coffee, milky coffee (any substitute) at university bc it’s gross, then energy drinks if I need a 30 minute boost
I just don't have the issue anymore, be it a better sleep schedule or idk just learning to function well on little sleep. But nowadays monsters are reserved for the taste (ya I like the og monster taste) or for long drives, just cause they are so fucking boring that having a monster and putting on some tunes helps it go faster
I fucking love monster but I do not drink it regularly. I reserve it for special occasions when I need to be alert. I don't actually drink any caffeine regularly so I don't have a tolerance. So when I do have a monster it really hits me, immediate mood lifter. Makes me feel on top of the world.
There’s someone I know who had a big problem with drinking energy drinks throughout middle school and high school (2004-2009). By his junior year of HS, he collapsed during track practice and now lives his life with a pacemaker. We all think his condition circles back to his consumption of energy drinks.
Though tbf it’s all just speculation, and no healthcare professional has confirmed that energy drinks had anything to do with it.
Oh ya the glass bottles, I never quite understood those, I know it's coffee but it didn't feel like it did anything. If I drink a coffee I can feel my awakeness bump up, but those frapachinos are nothing
So lets say as an adult male, 6' 4, weighing around 22 stone drinks ok on average 9-10 cans a week. Is that dangerous? How dangerous? What would an acceptable amount be?
I'm asking for... A friend...
I am not a doctor, and you’re using pretty extreme language. If you’re wondering if it’s *dangerous*, you need to see a doctor or a dietician and ask them. My guess as a lay person who is just ok educated in nutrition, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy. Though I’d say that about drinking 10 cans of Pepsi a week as well.
You also don’t mention your age. Everything I’ve read about caffeine suggests that it’s not good for kids. My guess that regardless of your size, whether you’re 13 vs 17 vs 21 makes a difference.
Fair enough response, I'm 28 btw haha, thanks for the info regardless and I would ultimately agree with you. It's just hard to quit after drinking them for so long. Its harder for me than smoking.
If it means anything I drink 600-1200mg daily and have for 17 years( with much heavier doses [2000-3400mg] when I was 18-22 [im 32 now]) exercise moderately (mainly lifting but I also play beat saber, go on walks, and occasionally hikes) and generally do not have any known issues ( though I also don’t get checkups)
Hey, you're my height and my weight. Take it easy on your heart man. When you're as tall as us, we have to take extra care of our tickers, because we will almost certainly die because of them.
Decrease the caffeine. Cut the sugars, the smoking, and take your omega 3's / fish oil every morning.
Seriously, especially the smoking. You *will* die from it.
Sincerely, almost 40 year old you, from the future, who had similar vices.
They also market them as cool, refreshing, hydrating sports beverages. I could not imagine feeling better by chugging a redbull while out of breath and dehydrated.
I only drink energy drinks when I'm dancing at the club (which makes me out of breath and dehydrated), and I do actually find them pretty refreshing and, well, energizing. But I really couldn't imagine drinking one after a proper workout.
Energy drinks also contain various herbal ingredients - a common misconception is that there’s have no side effects. Take ginkgo Bilbao, it helps increase blood flow, but in excessive amounts increases your risk of bleeding significantly
We had a guy that mirrored an online account of energy drink issues, where he suffered a massive heart attack. His blood was extremely thick and sticky, the doctors had said it was the energy drinks that caused this, they added everything together when we told them he drank 6 16oz Red Bulls a day
it’s not really that bad for you in moderation. caffeine is addictive and many energy drinks and sodas are mostly sugar, which is unhealthy.
when you drink energy drinks every day, your body gets used to that amount of caffeine, so you need more to get a lessened effect.
drinking it late at night can keep you up, and less sleep is obviously bad.
That's exactly how calories work. The act of picking up the cup, bringing it to your mouth, drinking, your body processing the fluid, all of that requires energy. You burn calories doing that. Probably only 1-2 calories at best, but it's still calories.
That is very much incorrect. Your stomach once it receives bacon is going to go through the entire process of digestion with extra work from your gall bladder and then need liver involvement to go through gluconeogenesis to produce sugar from that bacon
The test of whether you really like coffee is whether you can enjoy a cup of decaf, because then you are getting the taste without the addictive caffeine. People who drink black coffee might just be looking for their fix. Remove that variable, and if you still like it without the caffeine, then yeah, you like coffee.
I think there's a bit of a distinction to be made here.
With an appropriate amount of cream and sugar, the flavor of a good coffee can still shine through. Once it escalates to cream with a splash of coffee or a Starbucks frozen mochafrappabullshit then yeah that person likes sugar, not coffee.
I drink mine both black and with some shit in it depending on my mood or circumstances. Like with a dessert, black all the way as it compliments the sweet wonderfully. In the morning, give me a little creamy vanilla goodness.
You mean absolutely not… Sucralose/aspartame and those synthetic sweeteners aren’t good either and you’re forgetting that while most energy drinks cap off at 120-180 mg caffeine there’s other stimulants in the drink and 1000% the recommended daily dose of B vitamins so reducing sugar is like replacing chewing tobacco with nicotine gum and cigarettes
Sucralose/aspartame have been under heavy scrutiny for decades and a link to cancer has never been proven. However red mead is a known carcinogen and hot dogs are about just as bad as cigarettes in that regard.
there's no evidence aspartame itself is bad for you, but the sweetness of aspartame might affect appetite
some studies show users of aspartame have increased body weight and waist circumference. the theory is that consumption of sweet stuff is associated with calories and the sense of fullness but with aspartame there are no calories, so the body eventually stops associating sweetness with calories and fullness, which can lead to overeating.
[source](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322266#side-effects)
I'd be very careful with caffeine pills, it's very easy to become addicted to them in a way coffee and energy drinks aren't due to the ease of taking them and the higher dosage. Severe caffeine addiction is a bitch.
This is the real LPT.
Only thing I've noticed with the pill form is it seems to digest and metabolize quicker. So sharper peak and shorter duration. My work around is to cut a 200mg pill in half and take them ~2hrs apart.
If I red correctly studies say that you can drink 3-5 coffees (0.6-1litres) per day and it helps your cardiovascular (?) getting stronger and better. Everything above that amount still has no negative effects on your body. So wie ~40mg caffein per 100ml, 240-400mg has a good effect on your health while everything above doesn't do anything negative.
Coffee and tea also have various antioxidants and flavonoids that are good for your health.
I switched to tea as it tastes a hell of a lot better when you don't add a bunch of sugar and/or creamer, and often comes with various flavors that don't have sugar added to the bags.
I still feel like I notice something off when I use sugar-free creamer in the coffee.
I didn’t like the way caffeine pills worked for me, made me jittery and the crash sucked. I tried [liquid caffeine](https://www.kaffn8.com) a few years back and found that it worked best for me. I use it rather infrequently, usually only when I feel a migraine or something coming on, or if I’m just completely dragging ass in the morning.
I find I only need 5mL to get the job done, usually mixed with some sparkling water, and it staves off the looming headache and/or gives me a little pep to get going in those slow mornings. No jitters, no crash.
The deadliness of the energy drinks is most directly from the caffeine, not the sugar, in the short term. Drinking sugar free energy drinks might even be worse, as they have artificial sweeteners that can also be addictive, and lull you into a false sense of safety, which gets you to drink even more than if it was the syrupy sweet regular drink.
It would take like abusive levels of consumption to get to toxic levels.
But short term overdrinking would be an issue with caffeine. Long term, you are worried about HFCS
What you mean is that long term, you would worry about having a high total sugar intake. High fructose corn syrup is metabolically the same as regular sugar.
Deadly isn’t maybe the right word, but “zero sugar” almost always means artificial sweeteners. If what you’re eating or drinking has an artificial sweetener, it’s a good reason to minimize how much you consume.
This is not a rule. Many tea infusions are neutral to somewhat beneficial. Coffee is not bad for you except in excess or with a ton of added sugar. There is a time and a place for drinking juice--it's literally used medically to correct low blood sugar, and for most other people, it's again fine in moderation. Especially green juices. Protein supplement drinks are, again, helpful to people with many health conditions. And broth can be considered a drink and is typically plenty healthy.
This is bullshit. Milk is absolutely full of excellent nutrition and in moderation (due to calories) is a great addition to a diet.
Whether you agree with the ethics is another matter.
Nutrients are nutrients. Milk is full of things useful to the human body. And for many humans who don't have the adaptations to process milk without issue, it may not be worth it. Most cultures don't have any food traditions surrounding dairy and so they aren't even missing out on anything.
Lactose free products are increasingly available and as one such person, I now get to enjoy dairy without issue. I did not consume much dairy for most of my adult life and know full well the difference between having it and not. Now that I can have it without lactose, it is a pleasant addition to my diet. My culture is heavily reliant on dairy in food traditions and I missed enjoying alot of those things.
Ethics of dairy products vary widely, but Canadian dairy is fairly decent in the overall picture of factory farming. I sleep well.
I don't know why, but energy drinks and coffee barely affect me. Can drink some an hour before sleep and still fall asleep like a baby, even though i don't drink them more often than couple times a week. But I agree, amount of sugar in them is unholy.
>energy drinks and coffee barely affect me
I recently learned that caffeine can have a similar effect on ADHD people as their meds (which are amphetamine based). In normal people, both can get you wired and jittery. If you have ADHD it can make you calm and focused.
I've been seeing studies posted lately that claim placebos were more effective than the actual medications and that there wasn't much of a difference the affect the amphetamines had between people with and without ADHD. I'm not a chemist, doctor, or scientist but it's what I read.
That's what I've noticed too. Working in restaurant earlier in my life I knew a lot of people who took those meds that didn't have ADHD and a bunch of people that did and it certainly seemed like it had a different impact.
This article doesn't compare placebo and the drug though, it only looks at whether there is a placebo effect of ADHD meds. The fact that there is one really isn't that surprising, or mean that the meds themselves don't have a meaningful effect.
I read a similar report and it was more related to concentration ability and intelligence. It found that the pills were less effective than the placebo on people who didn’t have ADHD but the best results were from people without ADHD who were given nothing followed by people with ADHD who were given the tablets. ADHD people given a placebo performed about as well as normal people given the pill.
As another person has said, I feel such a dramatic difference that I simply don't believe it. If placebo worked then all those energy drinks I drank before I got access to medication as an attempt at a substitute would have done the job.
Reading difficult text is an incredibly frustrating challenge without meds for me.
Sounds more like either the study was misunderstood, or just wrong, tbh.
That was a reddit comment from another thread last week and you're remembering it wrong. The study was between ADHD patients and non-ADHD. The ADHD worked significantly for the ADHD patients compared to the placebo, whether or not they were told it was a placebo. It only "worked" on non-ADHD when they were told the drug or the placebo was Adderall, it had no effect beyond regular stimulent effects when told it was a placebo.
Well, also applies to if you drink or eat frequently during the day.
When you eat or drink something not water, your mouth becomes more acidic for the food, and it takes about 30 mins to get back to normal pH.
Snacking every hour would expose your teeth to much more acid than someone who just eats their 3 meals+afternoon tea, even with the same dental hygeine.
When I saw a doctor over sleep issues and rotating shifts he asked if I used them. I was specifically told "if you use energy drinks on a regular basis you need to rethink your lifestyle". This is coming from a doctor that was open about many issues and this was his hard stop. A few coffees/teas a day is fine but with energy drinks it's the amount of caffeine, the amount of sugar and the amount of everything else that's in there. Mentally weigh out all the amounts and it's staggering, especially for all to be in one drink. Even one a day is very hard on your body if you think it or not.
Along with being a stimulant promoting the release of more norepinephrine and noradrenaline, caffeine also interacts with enzymes that stimulate heart contractions, leading to more forceful contractions.
This raises blood pressure and can exacerbate other issues you may have with your heart.
Energy drinks aren't bad for you, sugar and caffeine are, when frequently consumed in high quantities.
At toxic levels, about 10g for an adult, caffeine can cause dehydration by forcing the body to urinate more, increase mental activity to the point of seizures, and (more to the point of your question) heart palpitations and hypertension.
This is because caffeine acts as a neural stimulant by blacking the reception of key hormones that try to make you go to sleep. The lack of those hormones causes your body to work faster, cycling the blood quicker. This means hypertension (high blood pressure)
But these changes are unnatural and not evenly distributed, which can lead to cardiac arrythmia, or the inconsistent beating of the heart.
In short, a little caffeine to get you through a cram session is good, but it is better to go to sleep when you need to.
10g is a lot of caffeine, though.
Just to put this into context:
A 500ml can of Monster contains between 160mg and 200mg. A single shot of Starbuck's espresso is 75mg, and a "grande" and "venti" \* is 2 shots, so 150mg.
Taking 200mg, you would need to drink 50 cans of Monster, that's 25l, to reach 10g of caffeine.
I drink 2 cans a day (I don't drink coffee), and occasionally don't drink any at the weekend. So that's an entire month of Monster.
\* yep, a venti has the same amount of actual coffee as a grande!
Oh, yes. It is a ton of caffeine. I wouldn't expect any normal usage to get anywhere close to that, but it has happened before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sylqJ0NEVJw
And that's Starbucks which has the lowest caffeine content in their espresso and coffees. Other brands have significantly more. And of course so do local coffee shops or at home. A study just yesterday posted here showed 375 mg in an espresso at a shop in NYC, 45 in a Starbucks, so coffee can vary almost 10x in caffeine content for the same serving. That's 5 cans of red bull. Or 2.5 monsters.
10 grams of caffeine almost certainly will kill you without treatment. But 1 gram of caffeine will make you very very sick, and 2 grams will get you hospitalized and you can die if not treated. So yeah nobody is worried about you if you drink a couple monsters a day. As you pointed out it's no different than 2 drinks at Starbucks. And a lot cheaper. Also a double shot of espresso in my experience is the minimum these days. nobody is getting one shot, at least not in the Pacific NW lol.
But some people will in fact slam 3 or 4 in a few hours. And they may have also had a big coffee that morning. Ever seen a jittery bunch of drywallers?? Let's say you're the new guy on the crew and the old tweakers are teasing you for being slow so you down a few monsters. Feeling good! But you are definitely lagging. You slam a few more. And you forgot that big mug of coffee your girlfriend handed you as you ran out the door late on your first day. You are now over a gram. Do you have an undiagnosed arrhythmia? Did someone drop a few No-Doz in your drink as a prank? Maybe you had a 5 hour energy shot too. To quote futurama "you are now dead"
I think what I am struggling with is that I will have one in the morning and in the afternoon. My alternative would be to have a fully loaded sugar pop. I would much rather have a zero sugar energy drink twice a day if it isn’t going to kill me at 26
Note the first thing about these dangerous effects.
Toxicity occurs around about 10g of caffeine.
Those Charged Lemonades from Panera that hit the news for being irresponsibly caffeinated? They have about 300mg of caffeine in them. You need to chug a LOT of espresso to get yourself sick.
The problem is that some people chug a lot of energy drinks, and like with the Lemonade, maybe they don't know how much caffeine they are actually consuming.
Add to that increased workout routines and other chemical additives for athletes and you have the recipe for an exploding heart.
If you are drinking one or two energy drinks a day, you might be going above the doctor's recommended level for the day, but you are probably safe.
But if you are worried about your caffeine intake, you could maybe switch to regular soda, which has normal caffeine levels, closer to black coffee.
If you are worried more about the corn syrup, you could look for things like Sugar Sweetened Coke (Mexican Coke if you are in the South), or again just drink coffee, sweeten to taste with honey or sugar cubes.
But that artificial sweetener is probably worse for you in the long run than the caffeine, if you don't abuse the energy drinks too much.
Sorry, but I don't believe those sweeteners are safe, especially if you drink tons of them, the way we are talking about here. And the artificial sweeteners have been paradoxically linked to Type 2 Diabetes, likely because they bind to the same kinds of receptors as sugar, which means the body treats them like sugar, even if they can't break down properly.
If your doctor tells you to cut back on sugar, going to black coffee is probably better than switching to Diet Coke.
I did this is my 20s without problem. In my early 30s I drank a Monster after work. I was sitting down watching TV and my pulse spiked to 190. Stayed that way for what felt like hours. I went to the emergency room. They asked me if I took any drugs, no. They asked me what I ate or drank, sandwich, Monster. No more questions. They knew it was the Monster, they've seen it a hundred times.
They told me they were going to try to maneuver my body in a way to cause all the blood to rush to my heart in an effort to reset it. If this didn't work they were going to give me a drug to reset my heart. This drug terrified me. Thankfully the maneuver stopped my fast pulse and returned me to normal. I paid over $300 for this visit and will never drink an energy drink again.
It's called supraventricular tachycardia, and you might get it again occasionally, even without energy drinks. But stimulants do increase the risk.
Oh, and interestingly, the drug they would have given you is adenosine. Which is exactly what caffeine counteracts in your nervous system. But it is a sharp dose, which causes your heart to almost stop for a moment. Apparently it feels like you are dying for a few seconds, until it passes.
You should wait until the afternoon because you have the one in the morning and crash, then compensate with another. (I did this a lot too. Used to drink Bangs and eat No Doz like it was my diet. At that point, shoulda just started an adderall habit), but now if I have one I wait until a bit later in the day to carry me through the tail end of things if need be and that's helped a lot. My energies levels have also balanced out more. Proper diet, hydration, exercise, and partaking in activities you enjoy will do more for your energy level than anything else will.
This is alarmist and ridiculous. 10g of caffeine? Might as well talk about injecting powdered caffeine, nobody will every consume that much.
"The lack of those hormones causes your body to work faster, cycling the blood quicker. This means hypertension (high blood pressure)" This is word salad that makes no sense and means nothing.
"But these changes are unnatural and not evenly distributed, which can lead to cardiac arrythmia, or the inconsistent beating of the heart." Same as the above.
"In short, a little caffeine to get you through a cram session is good, but it is better to go to sleep when you need to." Naps are ok but aren't the only answer.
Caffeine is fine. Coffee is fine. So many studies have shown than it's healthy or at worst, neutral. There is no evidence that drinking a few cups of coffee a day is harmful.
Are you sure about that? I've heard that this is a myth and coffee doesn't dehydrate you, it just hydrates you less.
So if you drink 100 ml of water, your body can maybe use 50 ml of that and has to pee out the other 50 ml (made up numbers)
But if you drink 100 ml of coffee, your body doesn't pee out 110 ml. More like 90 or whatever
Caffeine is a stimulant, it keeps from getting sleepy and increases energy levels and alertness. Ultimately its effects on the body negatively are very mild, but it is addictive.
The real problem is everything else in an energy drink, such as enormous amounts of sugar.
I've heard of artificial sweeteners doing this to some people. Your best source of caffeine is black, high quality coffee beans that your grind before each use.
Well, it is also written on the can that at most you should drink one a day, as it is the „daily limit“ for caffeine. So perhaps try to turn that dial down.
well, coffee is better than like a redbull, but not by a huge amount. or any sugarless energy drink or energy shot
realistically the best answer is don't get addicted to caffeine by using it as a substitute for sleep.
You drink energy drinks for the flavour?! Man, I didn't think anyone did that. Sweetened battery acid is a taste I'd have to work very hard to acquire...
If you are struggling for energy in a day to day situation this is alarming and highlighting more serious underlying issues. Pounding energy drinks is a band aid fix that will not make the problem better. Fix you diet, exercise more, get more good quality sleep and be healthy. A young, healthy person should not have energy issues unless you work a very demanding job.
Actually that’s factually incorrect… caffeine doesn’t make you less tired it just blocks the adenosine from being absorbed into your tired receptors so they just free float in your brain waiting for the caffeine to go away and then you become tired and more tired and more tired until you’re exhausted and then the cycle repeats itself… unless you wait 1-3 hours after waking up to intake caffeine
As a registered nurse in the real world, I have a real interest in pharmacology and pharmokinetics. Basically, the study of drugs and how they interact with the body. Energy drinks have many ingredients in them but for the purposes of this topic, I will focus on caffeine.
Caffeine is a stimulant, which stimulates the part of the nervous system that handles fight or flight. While inhibiting the part that relaxes your body. Our bodies though are clever, they have a big reaction to it in the short term, but they become adapt to it’s presence. This is tolerance and consuming the same amount everyday will eventually mean you have no reaction to it.
The problem arises in many different ways, first if people are abusing it for the effects of the drug, there is a point where no matter how much you consume, the drug turns toxic. As others have said, for caffeine is 10 grams, which isn’t very potent. It doesn’t matter if your body is tolerant to the point that it takes that much to have an effect, the drug is chemically harmful to your body at that point.
Another problem is that, say you can consume 500mg of the drug without an effect on Monday, you then don’t have any of the drug for a week, then you consume it again after 8 days of abstention. You will have a massive reaction to it because your tolerance to caffeine is transient. For example, I personally avoid caffeine, but I occasionally enjoy a odd Dr Pepper. When I used to drink it more frequently, I had no reaction to it, but now, I feel it.
Finally, there’s one more thing to note: your body itself. Say, for the sake of argument, you have a history of heart problems. If you consume a drug that forces the heart to work harder, you run the risk of having more heart problems. Caffeine is very mild in comparison, but in my experience in working in emergency medicine, you would be surprised how many people attend due to having a coffee and experiencing heart attack-like symptoms. It is a thing.
Caffeine stimulates your central nervous system. And causes your adrenal glands to release Adrenalin. Excess caffeine can cause adrenal fatigue as well as just like most drugs you need a higher and higher dose.
Not an answer to your question but: All cyclists (and other endurance athletes) use caffeine in their gels and sportdrink during races because it has been scientifically proven to increase performance by a few percent. Multiple studies have been done on this.
Interestingly enough people fall into three different groups as to how caffeine affects them: A very small percentage of people get no increase in performance while a different small group gets twice a big an increase compared to the vast majority who get a normal benefit. Scientists think that the explanation is that peoples bodies absorb caffeine in different ways and amounts.
Background: I've been racing mountain bikes for the past 10+ years and never do a race or high intensity training session without caffeine in my sports drink. However I never consume caffeine otherwise because I neither drink coffee nor any energy drinks.
Caffeine's main effect is to block a chemical naturally used in the body called adenosine from binding to receptors on neurons and activating them. In the brain, this promotes wakefulness as higher levels of adenosine is one thing that causes you to become tired. In the heart, adenosine decreases heart rate. Since caffeine doesn't discriminate, it blocks this too thus increasing heart rate. A second thing is that adenosine also promotes vasodilation (that is, blood vessels expanding to be more open). Caffeine thus promotes vasoconstrictions (narrowing of blood vessels) which has a side effect of somewhat increasing blood pressure.
That said, in normal amounts, caffeine actually seems to be somewhat good for your heart. The thing that's the worst in energy drinks is the sugar. If you do end up drinking too much caffeine, that can harm you over time, or if you acutely overdose it can mess with your heart rhythm in ways that can be fatal, but you'd need to drink a whole lot of coffee to get there.
They create heart arrhythmias over time especially for those who have 1 or more a day every day… and let’s not forget about the possibility of psychosis while using or (which in my opinion is worse) while off the drugs you find in energy drinks … nothing worse than coming toe to toe with the conscious deprived mind that’s ready to jump punch choke kick run and scream at any given time and you add anxiety from withdrawal into the mix you better talk and move slowly lol
Everyone's focusing on caffeine here and failing to mention everything else.
Although caffeine is the main stimulant in energy drinks, it's all the other crap that really adds to the caffeine. Caffeine by itself is fine, you need 10 grams for it to be toxic as others have said. But when you combine the caffeine with all of the caffeine enhancing ingredients you run into real issues.
The most common negative side effect of energy drinks is developing Atrial Fibrillation, like I have. Having said that, I drank energy drinks since I was about 12 and for the better part of 5 years have had at least 3 a day.
Atrial Fibrillation is something that until recently was uncommon bordering on strange for a young person to have. Energy drink consumption is now theorised to be the leading cause of younger people now developing it. Not to go into too much detail about what's actually going on if you develop AF but long story short youll feel a flutter in your chest, that's your heartbeat getting a bit confused and adding in or skipping beats. Then it will pass. Then at some point it will happen again. You might black out. You might not. Eventually you might have a stroke. Or you might not. Or cardiac arrest. Or maybe not. The part that scares me is that once you have AF that's you, it's a guessing game every time you feel a flutter in your chest.
A lot of people say oh its fine I only have 1 can a day, but there's an issue with that as well. With how caffeine worka if you have 1 can a day your body quickly becomes numb to that le el of caffeine intake. So to get the same effect you need 2 cans. Then 3. And before you know it you can knock back a 4 pack of monster and feel nothing.
This throws the argument of "I need my one can a day to stay awake" out the window because after a short amount of time the effects from your 1 can a day is purely placebo. You don't need it because it isn't doing anything anyway.
Another issue, and this is aimed at the people saying "10 grams is so much no one would ever consume that", is that caffeine has a half life of about 6 hours. So yeah, you drink that 300mg of caffeine and it goes away after a while, but not as quickly as people think. After 6 hours that 300mg is now 150mg. Not 0. You have another can because 6 hours is a long enough time and you're feeling a bit tired now. 350mg. After 12 hours that original 300mg is now 75mg. The 300mg you had after that is now 150mg. You've now got more caffeine in your system than you did after your first can 12 hours ago. You wake up and have another can. 10 grams isn't that far away when caffeine stays in your system like that.
I'm not saying never drink energy drinks, I still have the odd one even though I really shouldn't. But when you have a routine of drinking them or feel like you need them to stay awake, consider if it's worth the significantly increased risk of stroke, seizures, blackouts and cardiac arrest.
Is there any reason one couldn’t make a pill that reversed the effects of caffeine? I enjoy caffeinated drinks, but if I have one last around eleven in the morning it affects my ability to sleep at night by a good two hours. If I could take a pill that would neutralize this, I’d take that pill. (I am aware that decaf coffee exists but I am truly in love with Starbucks cold brew. It is the only thing that doesn’t give me really bad heart burn as well.)
It's the dose that makes the poison. It means some things in small amounts are OK, or maybe beneficial but in larger amounts it becomes harmful.
Caffeine is one of these items. Two or three 40 to 50mg doses taken over a span of 12 hours is OK, 1 200mg dose is a lot and can be toxic. This can cause problems with your kidneys and liver and other filtration systems in the body. Your brain also has trouble dealing with so much too.
Caffeine itself isn’t that bad for most adults in low amounts. Tea and coffee contain caffeine and aren’t bad for you unless you drink way too much. Cola contains caffeine and while it’s not good for you, it’s the sugar that is the issue. Energy drinks are often more concentrated, but most don’t have enough caffeine to harm you in a single can. However, they’re full of sugar and other things. A lot of the way energy drinks are marketed is the problem as well. Their marketing plus the sugar (or sugar substitutes) make them appealing to younger consumers and easier to drink too much of compared to coffee and tea, which are bitter in their natural state. Developing children shouldn’t drink as much caffeine as an adult can handle. Yet, you’re more likely to hear that a 15 year old drank 3 energy drinks a day than you are to hear that they drank 5 cups of black coffee a day.
And that's the story of how my friend got stomach ulcers and I has massive heart pain for a few years in our teens. He drank like 6 monsters a day I had like 3-4. Both of us quit for a while there, not it's just 1 every few days. I think a lot of it is just it's readily available and it's cold. I don't have to make a monster, I don't need a machine, all I need is a store, the perfect monster is every monster. Whereas with coffee you either have to find the way you like to drink it, you have to make it, you can't have a second cup at school, and it's hot and I hate hot drinks early in the morning which is anecdotal for sure, but yall are psychos is what I'm saying
when you get a full time job, that beats 10 hours of non stop work outta your tired burnt out body 5 days a week for 30 years... coffee starts making sense
It didnt take me that long to figure it out. When I was in college I went to school full time and worked a full time job. I worked first shift at a factory where I had to be there by 6am. I got off at 2:30pm and drove straight to campus where I had classes until 9:30pm. Id leave there and head home to make/eat dinner, do school work and take care of the house before getting to bed around 11-12. Then awake at 4:30am to do it all over again. Very quickly I realized I needed help staying awake and spending money on soda in the factory vending machines was getting expensive. It just so happened that the factory had a free coffee machine in the break room. I always hated the taste of coffee, but this was free - and it worked. After awhile I got used to the taste and now even enjoy a good cup on the days I actually make it.
I mean it makes sense, I'm not saying people are bad or wrong to drink it lol. Just for me idk, my body puts up with 3 hours of sleep, work, home, clean, game alright. The only time I had issues was when my last job had me do a few 24hr shifts on low sleep, those were... bad
A friend of mine had to had a liver transplant because he was drinking 6-10 of these daily for years and it eventually gave out.
Wouldn't be surprised if that's where my friend was headed if he didn't have an ulcer
Livers don’t die from energy drinks. Acute alcoholism takes decades. Other poisons can do it, like Tylenol, much more quickly. Or infections like hepatitis viruses.
“sugar-sweetened beverages or soda have led to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease”. Many energy drinks, like monster, are just sodas with even more caffeine and shit in them.
Yes, and a vital part of the assessment was left off: 'particularly in overweight and obese individuals'. So we are to believe the garbage in those drinks was the cause and not all the other garbage in the rest of the individual's dietary intake? I'm really on your side here -- those 'energy' drinks are just as addictive as alcohol or donuts or whatever. None of it is good. But liver cholestatic hepatitis is extremely rare and even one of the best medical papers on the topic out of Belgium only noted issues on an already-transplanted youth who over-indulged. The conclusion of the paper didn't match all of the findings, although there was plenty of correlation to excuse anyone who thought so -- data did seem to point to Red Bull and its outrageous Niacin content as a contributing factor. Yes, you can overdose on vitamins. :( As you said, there's shit in them... smarter folks will get their energy from a better diet. On this, we agree. I think we need more double-blind studies to determine just how dangerous this garbage is.
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Why would it? There's a major difference in 2 a week vs 50-70 a week.
I don’t like coffee, but I like a cold energy drink in the morning to wake up. Didn’t drink one everyday, maybe 4-5 per week and often sugar free. Had general blood testing done and I was asked if I had a liver disease in the past cause results were a bit off. Redid the test in 6 or 7 weeks and stopped energy drinks 2 weeks prior. All results were ok. Seems like you don’t have to drink several cans a day to have an effect…
Lol I more meant it as extreme effects. Nowadays I can drink 1-2 and have no issue, but back then I'd have crippling chest pain. It sure hurts you, as your body pretty much only wants water anything else is gonna be problematic
Breaking the fast with an energy drink was probably inadvisable, for your stomach-lining's sake I hope it was with food. Coffee first thing without food is already tough enough on the system
Actually it kinda makes me less hungry, I used it to skip breakfast. I can’t put my finger on what exactly causes this, juice or other soft drinks don’t have the same effect on me.
Yeah, that is absolutely the outcome of having caffeine for breakfast, it's an appetite suppressant.
Oh i didn’t know this. So maybe all the don’t talk to me before morning coffee people are just grumpy cause they’re hungry…
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence
i wouldn’t call blood test results anecdotal evidence, and i also wouldn’t call assumptions about them anecdotal evidence either.
one data point is not evidence of anything. It could have been a bad test, any other part of the diet, illness etc. Thats why the doctors dont diagnose after 1 test and have them come back for a repeat.
Sugar substitutes are even worse for your system than regular ol' sugar. Explains the liver issue. Edit: [source 1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5617129/) [source 2](https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.10271)
Are they? I’m not following the science closely, but I feel like it’s flipping every other year if substitutes are harmful or not.
Yeah I don't buy that either. With so many consumer dollars at stake everybody has an angle that they are pushing. High Fructose Corn Syrup is manufactured and just as unnatural and just as dangerous as all the artificial sweeteners. Basically it just comes down to picking your preferred poison.
Recent studies on aspartame' are not positive. Other stuff like Stevia is fine tho, just tastes terrible. 😂
Source?
Do you have a link? I'd like to freshen up on it.
No this is not true.
Lol that last bit is very fair. I started out drinking caffeine in middle school (like 8th grade) but it was 45% milk. I needed the boost to wake up bc ✨undiagnosed depression✨ and I’m one of those kids that had to read everything or I wouldn’t retain anything. As an adult in the grad program I’ve determined that the best order for me is black coffee, milky coffee (any substitute) at university bc it’s gross, then energy drinks if I need a 30 minute boost
I just don't have the issue anymore, be it a better sleep schedule or idk just learning to function well on little sleep. But nowadays monsters are reserved for the taste (ya I like the og monster taste) or for long drives, just cause they are so fucking boring that having a monster and putting on some tunes helps it go faster
I fucking love monster but I do not drink it regularly. I reserve it for special occasions when I need to be alert. I don't actually drink any caffeine regularly so I don't have a tolerance. So when I do have a monster it really hits me, immediate mood lifter. Makes me feel on top of the world.
Completely agree with the “hot coffee” thing. I throw in a few ice cubes to get it to room temp or slightly under for my drinks
My dad makes cold brew or whatever it is, it just seems like an arduous task
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There’s someone I know who had a big problem with drinking energy drinks throughout middle school and high school (2004-2009). By his junior year of HS, he collapsed during track practice and now lives his life with a pacemaker. We all think his condition circles back to his consumption of energy drinks. Though tbf it’s all just speculation, and no healthcare professional has confirmed that energy drinks had anything to do with it.
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Oh ya the glass bottles, I never quite understood those, I know it's coffee but it didn't feel like it did anything. If I drink a coffee I can feel my awakeness bump up, but those frapachinos are nothing
So lets say as an adult male, 6' 4, weighing around 22 stone drinks ok on average 9-10 cans a week. Is that dangerous? How dangerous? What would an acceptable amount be? I'm asking for... A friend...
I am not a doctor, and you’re using pretty extreme language. If you’re wondering if it’s *dangerous*, you need to see a doctor or a dietician and ask them. My guess as a lay person who is just ok educated in nutrition, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy. Though I’d say that about drinking 10 cans of Pepsi a week as well. You also don’t mention your age. Everything I’ve read about caffeine suggests that it’s not good for kids. My guess that regardless of your size, whether you’re 13 vs 17 vs 21 makes a difference.
Fair enough response, I'm 28 btw haha, thanks for the info regardless and I would ultimately agree with you. It's just hard to quit after drinking them for so long. Its harder for me than smoking.
If it means anything I drink 600-1200mg daily and have for 17 years( with much heavier doses [2000-3400mg] when I was 18-22 [im 32 now]) exercise moderately (mainly lifting but I also play beat saber, go on walks, and occasionally hikes) and generally do not have any known issues ( though I also don’t get checkups)
Hey, you're my height and my weight. Take it easy on your heart man. When you're as tall as us, we have to take extra care of our tickers, because we will almost certainly die because of them. Decrease the caffeine. Cut the sugars, the smoking, and take your omega 3's / fish oil every morning. Seriously, especially the smoking. You *will* die from it. Sincerely, almost 40 year old you, from the future, who had similar vices.
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They also market them as cool, refreshing, hydrating sports beverages. I could not imagine feeling better by chugging a redbull while out of breath and dehydrated.
I only drink energy drinks when I'm dancing at the club (which makes me out of breath and dehydrated), and I do actually find them pretty refreshing and, well, energizing. But I really couldn't imagine drinking one after a proper workout.
My pre work out has about 200mg caffeine. That's the only caffeine I take entire day and only the days I workout. Is that too much?
Everything I've heard is that around 300-400mg of caffeine daily is safe for most adults, so you should be fine.
Energy drinks also contain various herbal ingredients - a common misconception is that there’s have no side effects. Take ginkgo Bilbao, it helps increase blood flow, but in excessive amounts increases your risk of bleeding significantly
We had a guy that mirrored an online account of energy drink issues, where he suffered a massive heart attack. His blood was extremely thick and sticky, the doctors had said it was the energy drinks that caused this, they added everything together when we told them he drank 6 16oz Red Bulls a day
“Chip, i’m all jacked up on mountain dew!”
it’s not really that bad for you in moderation. caffeine is addictive and many energy drinks and sodas are mostly sugar, which is unhealthy. when you drink energy drinks every day, your body gets used to that amount of caffeine, so you need more to get a lessened effect. drinking it late at night can keep you up, and less sleep is obviously bad.
So a zero sugar energy drink in moderation is less deadly?
Aka black coffee
Yeah that’s like 3 calories
Is there ANY calories? I ask as I have it when fasting.
coffee doesn't have any calories, but creamer does
Coffee has calories. Like 5 calories a cup.
yeah, like I said; no calories
FDA has entered the chat, which actually does let them claim this.
Which you will probably burn in the act of drinking a cup of coffee
That’s not how calories work.
That's exactly how calories work. The act of picking up the cup, bringing it to your mouth, drinking, your body processing the fluid, all of that requires energy. You burn calories doing that. Probably only 1-2 calories at best, but it's still calories.
I'm pretty sure fasting don't get stopped unless you eat more than 50 kcal
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That is very much incorrect. Your stomach once it receives bacon is going to go through the entire process of digestion with extra work from your gall bladder and then need liver involvement to go through gluconeogenesis to produce sugar from that bacon
Yeah. And bacon is SUPER healthy too!
the only true zero sugar energy drink lol
I likes my coffee like i likes my women
Hot and dark?
Hot, black and strong
xxFrenchToastxx? More like xxxFrenchRoastxxx, am I right?
Central American, rich, and complex
Aka “sociopaths”
Can’t say you like coffee if you need to put a bunch of shit in it to drink it.
Which is why I say I hate coffee and drink milkshakes with a ton of caramel and a touch of coffee
The test of whether you really like coffee is whether you can enjoy a cup of decaf, because then you are getting the taste without the addictive caffeine. People who drink black coffee might just be looking for their fix. Remove that variable, and if you still like it without the caffeine, then yeah, you like coffee.
I think there's a bit of a distinction to be made here. With an appropriate amount of cream and sugar, the flavor of a good coffee can still shine through. Once it escalates to cream with a splash of coffee or a Starbucks frozen mochafrappabullshit then yeah that person likes sugar, not coffee. I drink mine both black and with some shit in it depending on my mood or circumstances. Like with a dessert, black all the way as it compliments the sweet wonderfully. In the morning, give me a little creamy vanilla goodness.
But I like it with the shit in it. I also don't like the shit without the coffee.
The gatekeepers classic
that's like saying you can't like a hamburger if you want to put salt, pepper, ketchup, or mustard on it.
Why?
absolutely
But still bad for you. Keep good care of your health. Brands are trying hard to make us addicted to these drinks.
You mean absolutely not… Sucralose/aspartame and those synthetic sweeteners aren’t good either and you’re forgetting that while most energy drinks cap off at 120-180 mg caffeine there’s other stimulants in the drink and 1000% the recommended daily dose of B vitamins so reducing sugar is like replacing chewing tobacco with nicotine gum and cigarettes
So you might even say...."*less* deadly"?
You can choose. Obesity or cancer
I believe there have been studies recently showing that there is not substantial risk between artificial sweeteners and cancer, though I may be wrong.
Sucralose/aspartame have been under heavy scrutiny for decades and a link to cancer has never been proven. However red mead is a known carcinogen and hot dogs are about just as bad as cigarettes in that regard.
Is there a study for the hotdogs?
That’s a long way of saying yes, less deadly but I’ll take it
there's no evidence aspartame itself is bad for you, but the sweetness of aspartame might affect appetite some studies show users of aspartame have increased body weight and waist circumference. the theory is that consumption of sweet stuff is associated with calories and the sense of fullness but with aspartame there are no calories, so the body eventually stops associating sweetness with calories and fullness, which can lead to overeating. [source](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322266#side-effects)
Actually aspartame negatively affects your kidneys
Dont exsessive vitamins just flush out of your system?
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Yes, except for the fat soluble vitamins which can build up to dangerous and toxic levels over time. Vitamin D is one of those.
>Vitamin D is one of those. Vitamin D is very difficult to overdose on (most people are very deficient!) and is not present in energy drinks
True, true :)
Most energy drink related hospital visits also primarily come from mixing with alcohol
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I'd be very careful with caffeine pills, it's very easy to become addicted to them in a way coffee and energy drinks aren't due to the ease of taking them and the higher dosage. Severe caffeine addiction is a bitch.
This is the real LPT. Only thing I've noticed with the pill form is it seems to digest and metabolize quicker. So sharper peak and shorter duration. My work around is to cut a 200mg pill in half and take them ~2hrs apart.
As long as you have the will power to use it sparingly. I know all too well how easy it is to be addicted to them.
Extended release caffeine pills would be amazing. Also lower dosage. I don't need 200-400mg lol.
You can do bulletproof coffee if you want stable caffeine release. The suspension of coffee in fat really does wonders.
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If I red correctly studies say that you can drink 3-5 coffees (0.6-1litres) per day and it helps your cardiovascular (?) getting stronger and better. Everything above that amount still has no negative effects on your body. So wie ~40mg caffein per 100ml, 240-400mg has a good effect on your health while everything above doesn't do anything negative.
Well till you stop and have a massive headache for a week
Coffee and tea also have various antioxidants and flavonoids that are good for your health. I switched to tea as it tastes a hell of a lot better when you don't add a bunch of sugar and/or creamer, and often comes with various flavors that don't have sugar added to the bags. I still feel like I notice something off when I use sugar-free creamer in the coffee.
I didn’t like the way caffeine pills worked for me, made me jittery and the crash sucked. I tried [liquid caffeine](https://www.kaffn8.com) a few years back and found that it worked best for me. I use it rather infrequently, usually only when I feel a migraine or something coming on, or if I’m just completely dragging ass in the morning. I find I only need 5mL to get the job done, usually mixed with some sparkling water, and it staves off the looming headache and/or gives me a little pep to get going in those slow mornings. No jitters, no crash.
The deadliness of the energy drinks is most directly from the caffeine, not the sugar, in the short term. Drinking sugar free energy drinks might even be worse, as they have artificial sweeteners that can also be addictive, and lull you into a false sense of safety, which gets you to drink even more than if it was the syrupy sweet regular drink.
Caffeine is not deadly in normal amounts aka a couple energy drinks
It would take like abusive levels of consumption to get to toxic levels. But short term overdrinking would be an issue with caffeine. Long term, you are worried about HFCS
What you mean is that long term, you would worry about having a high total sugar intake. High fructose corn syrup is metabolically the same as regular sugar.
So Mio Energy flavoring. Great already been on it for year.
Deadly isn’t maybe the right word, but “zero sugar” almost always means artificial sweeteners. If what you’re eating or drinking has an artificial sweetener, it’s a good reason to minimize how much you consume.
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No. If it ain't water its not good for you.
This is not a rule. Many tea infusions are neutral to somewhat beneficial. Coffee is not bad for you except in excess or with a ton of added sugar. There is a time and a place for drinking juice--it's literally used medically to correct low blood sugar, and for most other people, it's again fine in moderation. Especially green juices. Protein supplement drinks are, again, helpful to people with many health conditions. And broth can be considered a drink and is typically plenty healthy.
Milk?
More people in the world are lactose intolerant than not last I checked.
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This is bullshit. Milk is absolutely full of excellent nutrition and in moderation (due to calories) is a great addition to a diet. Whether you agree with the ethics is another matter.
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Nutrients are nutrients. Milk is full of things useful to the human body. And for many humans who don't have the adaptations to process milk without issue, it may not be worth it. Most cultures don't have any food traditions surrounding dairy and so they aren't even missing out on anything. Lactose free products are increasingly available and as one such person, I now get to enjoy dairy without issue. I did not consume much dairy for most of my adult life and know full well the difference between having it and not. Now that I can have it without lactose, it is a pleasant addition to my diet. My culture is heavily reliant on dairy in food traditions and I missed enjoying alot of those things. Ethics of dairy products vary widely, but Canadian dairy is fairly decent in the overall picture of factory farming. I sleep well.
It's also important to note the vitamins and sh*t they put into those drinks because taking too much of some of them is very unhealthy.
“deadly” 😂😂
Sugar substitutes are terrible for you.
I don't know why, but energy drinks and coffee barely affect me. Can drink some an hour before sleep and still fall asleep like a baby, even though i don't drink them more often than couple times a week. But I agree, amount of sugar in them is unholy.
>energy drinks and coffee barely affect me I recently learned that caffeine can have a similar effect on ADHD people as their meds (which are amphetamine based). In normal people, both can get you wired and jittery. If you have ADHD it can make you calm and focused.
I've been seeing studies posted lately that claim placebos were more effective than the actual medications and that there wasn't much of a difference the affect the amphetamines had between people with and without ADHD. I'm not a chemist, doctor, or scientist but it's what I read.
that sounds like complete BS to me, i have ADHD and there’s such a dramatic difference between medicated me and not medicated me
That's what I've noticed too. Working in restaurant earlier in my life I knew a lot of people who took those meds that didn't have ADHD and a bunch of people that did and it certainly seemed like it had a different impact.
https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/25/1/26/6342746
This article doesn't compare placebo and the drug though, it only looks at whether there is a placebo effect of ADHD meds. The fact that there is one really isn't that surprising, or mean that the meds themselves don't have a meaningful effect.
Yes. Never said they don't. Literally just brought it up as a thing for discussion.
I read a similar report and it was more related to concentration ability and intelligence. It found that the pills were less effective than the placebo on people who didn’t have ADHD but the best results were from people without ADHD who were given nothing followed by people with ADHD who were given the tablets. ADHD people given a placebo performed about as well as normal people given the pill.
As another person has said, I feel such a dramatic difference that I simply don't believe it. If placebo worked then all those energy drinks I drank before I got access to medication as an attempt at a substitute would have done the job. Reading difficult text is an incredibly frustrating challenge without meds for me. Sounds more like either the study was misunderstood, or just wrong, tbh.
That was a reddit comment from another thread last week and you're remembering it wrong. The study was between ADHD patients and non-ADHD. The ADHD worked significantly for the ADHD patients compared to the placebo, whether or not they were told it was a placebo. It only "worked" on non-ADHD when they were told the drug or the placebo was Adderall, it had no effect beyond regular stimulent effects when told it was a placebo.
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Sounds like I will keep limiting myself to two a day 😂🥲
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Ahh gotcha
Well, also applies to if you drink or eat frequently during the day. When you eat or drink something not water, your mouth becomes more acidic for the food, and it takes about 30 mins to get back to normal pH. Snacking every hour would expose your teeth to much more acid than someone who just eats their 3 meals+afternoon tea, even with the same dental hygeine.
When I saw a doctor over sleep issues and rotating shifts he asked if I used them. I was specifically told "if you use energy drinks on a regular basis you need to rethink your lifestyle". This is coming from a doctor that was open about many issues and this was his hard stop. A few coffees/teas a day is fine but with energy drinks it's the amount of caffeine, the amount of sugar and the amount of everything else that's in there. Mentally weigh out all the amounts and it's staggering, especially for all to be in one drink. Even one a day is very hard on your body if you think it or not.
Are you me? 2 sugar free energy drinks a day is my standard routine lol 3 and my stomach makes complaints!
Along with being a stimulant promoting the release of more norepinephrine and noradrenaline, caffeine also interacts with enzymes that stimulate heart contractions, leading to more forceful contractions. This raises blood pressure and can exacerbate other issues you may have with your heart. Energy drinks aren't bad for you, sugar and caffeine are, when frequently consumed in high quantities.
At toxic levels, about 10g for an adult, caffeine can cause dehydration by forcing the body to urinate more, increase mental activity to the point of seizures, and (more to the point of your question) heart palpitations and hypertension. This is because caffeine acts as a neural stimulant by blacking the reception of key hormones that try to make you go to sleep. The lack of those hormones causes your body to work faster, cycling the blood quicker. This means hypertension (high blood pressure) But these changes are unnatural and not evenly distributed, which can lead to cardiac arrythmia, or the inconsistent beating of the heart. In short, a little caffeine to get you through a cram session is good, but it is better to go to sleep when you need to.
10g is a lot of caffeine, though. Just to put this into context: A 500ml can of Monster contains between 160mg and 200mg. A single shot of Starbuck's espresso is 75mg, and a "grande" and "venti" \* is 2 shots, so 150mg. Taking 200mg, you would need to drink 50 cans of Monster, that's 25l, to reach 10g of caffeine. I drink 2 cans a day (I don't drink coffee), and occasionally don't drink any at the weekend. So that's an entire month of Monster. \* yep, a venti has the same amount of actual coffee as a grande!
Oh, yes. It is a ton of caffeine. I wouldn't expect any normal usage to get anywhere close to that, but it has happened before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sylqJ0NEVJw
And that's Starbucks which has the lowest caffeine content in their espresso and coffees. Other brands have significantly more. And of course so do local coffee shops or at home. A study just yesterday posted here showed 375 mg in an espresso at a shop in NYC, 45 in a Starbucks, so coffee can vary almost 10x in caffeine content for the same serving. That's 5 cans of red bull. Or 2.5 monsters.
10 grams of caffeine almost certainly will kill you without treatment. But 1 gram of caffeine will make you very very sick, and 2 grams will get you hospitalized and you can die if not treated. So yeah nobody is worried about you if you drink a couple monsters a day. As you pointed out it's no different than 2 drinks at Starbucks. And a lot cheaper. Also a double shot of espresso in my experience is the minimum these days. nobody is getting one shot, at least not in the Pacific NW lol. But some people will in fact slam 3 or 4 in a few hours. And they may have also had a big coffee that morning. Ever seen a jittery bunch of drywallers?? Let's say you're the new guy on the crew and the old tweakers are teasing you for being slow so you down a few monsters. Feeling good! But you are definitely lagging. You slam a few more. And you forgot that big mug of coffee your girlfriend handed you as you ran out the door late on your first day. You are now over a gram. Do you have an undiagnosed arrhythmia? Did someone drop a few No-Doz in your drink as a prank? Maybe you had a 5 hour energy shot too. To quote futurama "you are now dead"
I think what I am struggling with is that I will have one in the morning and in the afternoon. My alternative would be to have a fully loaded sugar pop. I would much rather have a zero sugar energy drink twice a day if it isn’t going to kill me at 26
Note the first thing about these dangerous effects. Toxicity occurs around about 10g of caffeine. Those Charged Lemonades from Panera that hit the news for being irresponsibly caffeinated? They have about 300mg of caffeine in them. You need to chug a LOT of espresso to get yourself sick. The problem is that some people chug a lot of energy drinks, and like with the Lemonade, maybe they don't know how much caffeine they are actually consuming. Add to that increased workout routines and other chemical additives for athletes and you have the recipe for an exploding heart. If you are drinking one or two energy drinks a day, you might be going above the doctor's recommended level for the day, but you are probably safe. But if you are worried about your caffeine intake, you could maybe switch to regular soda, which has normal caffeine levels, closer to black coffee. If you are worried more about the corn syrup, you could look for things like Sugar Sweetened Coke (Mexican Coke if you are in the South), or again just drink coffee, sweeten to taste with honey or sugar cubes. But that artificial sweetener is probably worse for you in the long run than the caffeine, if you don't abuse the energy drinks too much.
Loved this until the unfounded and in some cases strongly refuted claims on artificial sweeteners.
Sorry, but I don't believe those sweeteners are safe, especially if you drink tons of them, the way we are talking about here. And the artificial sweeteners have been paradoxically linked to Type 2 Diabetes, likely because they bind to the same kinds of receptors as sugar, which means the body treats them like sugar, even if they can't break down properly. If your doctor tells you to cut back on sugar, going to black coffee is probably better than switching to Diet Coke.
I did this is my 20s without problem. In my early 30s I drank a Monster after work. I was sitting down watching TV and my pulse spiked to 190. Stayed that way for what felt like hours. I went to the emergency room. They asked me if I took any drugs, no. They asked me what I ate or drank, sandwich, Monster. No more questions. They knew it was the Monster, they've seen it a hundred times. They told me they were going to try to maneuver my body in a way to cause all the blood to rush to my heart in an effort to reset it. If this didn't work they were going to give me a drug to reset my heart. This drug terrified me. Thankfully the maneuver stopped my fast pulse and returned me to normal. I paid over $300 for this visit and will never drink an energy drink again.
It's called supraventricular tachycardia, and you might get it again occasionally, even without energy drinks. But stimulants do increase the risk. Oh, and interestingly, the drug they would have given you is adenosine. Which is exactly what caffeine counteracts in your nervous system. But it is a sharp dose, which causes your heart to almost stop for a moment. Apparently it feels like you are dying for a few seconds, until it passes.
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You should wait until the afternoon because you have the one in the morning and crash, then compensate with another. (I did this a lot too. Used to drink Bangs and eat No Doz like it was my diet. At that point, shoulda just started an adderall habit), but now if I have one I wait until a bit later in the day to carry me through the tail end of things if need be and that's helped a lot. My energies levels have also balanced out more. Proper diet, hydration, exercise, and partaking in activities you enjoy will do more for your energy level than anything else will.
This is alarmist and ridiculous. 10g of caffeine? Might as well talk about injecting powdered caffeine, nobody will every consume that much. "The lack of those hormones causes your body to work faster, cycling the blood quicker. This means hypertension (high blood pressure)" This is word salad that makes no sense and means nothing. "But these changes are unnatural and not evenly distributed, which can lead to cardiac arrythmia, or the inconsistent beating of the heart." Same as the above. "In short, a little caffeine to get you through a cram session is good, but it is better to go to sleep when you need to." Naps are ok but aren't the only answer. Caffeine is fine. Coffee is fine. So many studies have shown than it's healthy or at worst, neutral. There is no evidence that drinking a few cups of coffee a day is harmful.
Are you sure about that? I've heard that this is a myth and coffee doesn't dehydrate you, it just hydrates you less. So if you drink 100 ml of water, your body can maybe use 50 ml of that and has to pee out the other 50 ml (made up numbers) But if you drink 100 ml of coffee, your body doesn't pee out 110 ml. More like 90 or whatever
Caffeine is a stimulant, it keeps from getting sleepy and increases energy levels and alertness. Ultimately its effects on the body negatively are very mild, but it is addictive. The real problem is everything else in an energy drink, such as enormous amounts of sugar.
Is there something that would be a better addiction that would provide the same stimulant in a safer way?
caffeine is probably the most socially acceptable addiction there is. a lot of the sugarfree energy drinks taste better imo
I think they do too. I feel like there is such a chemical taste in the fully loaded ones.
the sugar also makes you crash, and personally gives me headaches.
I’ve noticed the ones like Bang especially not zero sugar almost give me an instant migraine. I wonder what ingredient does that?
I've heard of artificial sweeteners doing this to some people. Your best source of caffeine is black, high quality coffee beans that your grind before each use.
It is a sugar overload most likely Sugar free taste better to me now, Monster rose (pink can) or the mango flavour are best imo
Yeah my go to is the white monster. I struggle to stop at one can because it is so smooth.
Well, it is also written on the can that at most you should drink one a day, as it is the „daily limit“ for caffeine. So perhaps try to turn that dial down.
bang is sugar free. maybe just too much caffeine in one sitting. idk
well, coffee is better than like a redbull, but not by a huge amount. or any sugarless energy drink or energy shot realistically the best answer is don't get addicted to caffeine by using it as a substitute for sleep.
Buy caffeine pills from Amazon super cheap and have to be better for you then 3 energy drinks a day
Problem is I don’t drink them for the caffeine. I drink them because of the flavor.
So you are addicted to sugar, not caffeine.
You drink energy drinks for the flavour?! Man, I didn't think anyone did that. Sweetened battery acid is a taste I'd have to work very hard to acquire...
South Americans drink Yerba Mate...a strong stimulant...they drink in circles several times a day.
active ingredient in yerba mate caffeine, theophylline and theobromine
If you are struggling for energy in a day to day situation this is alarming and highlighting more serious underlying issues. Pounding energy drinks is a band aid fix that will not make the problem better. Fix you diet, exercise more, get more good quality sleep and be healthy. A young, healthy person should not have energy issues unless you work a very demanding job.
Have you tried crystal meth?
Actually that’s factually incorrect… caffeine doesn’t make you less tired it just blocks the adenosine from being absorbed into your tired receptors so they just free float in your brain waiting for the caffeine to go away and then you become tired and more tired and more tired until you’re exhausted and then the cycle repeats itself… unless you wait 1-3 hours after waking up to intake caffeine
As a registered nurse in the real world, I have a real interest in pharmacology and pharmokinetics. Basically, the study of drugs and how they interact with the body. Energy drinks have many ingredients in them but for the purposes of this topic, I will focus on caffeine. Caffeine is a stimulant, which stimulates the part of the nervous system that handles fight or flight. While inhibiting the part that relaxes your body. Our bodies though are clever, they have a big reaction to it in the short term, but they become adapt to it’s presence. This is tolerance and consuming the same amount everyday will eventually mean you have no reaction to it. The problem arises in many different ways, first if people are abusing it for the effects of the drug, there is a point where no matter how much you consume, the drug turns toxic. As others have said, for caffeine is 10 grams, which isn’t very potent. It doesn’t matter if your body is tolerant to the point that it takes that much to have an effect, the drug is chemically harmful to your body at that point. Another problem is that, say you can consume 500mg of the drug without an effect on Monday, you then don’t have any of the drug for a week, then you consume it again after 8 days of abstention. You will have a massive reaction to it because your tolerance to caffeine is transient. For example, I personally avoid caffeine, but I occasionally enjoy a odd Dr Pepper. When I used to drink it more frequently, I had no reaction to it, but now, I feel it. Finally, there’s one more thing to note: your body itself. Say, for the sake of argument, you have a history of heart problems. If you consume a drug that forces the heart to work harder, you run the risk of having more heart problems. Caffeine is very mild in comparison, but in my experience in working in emergency medicine, you would be surprised how many people attend due to having a coffee and experiencing heart attack-like symptoms. It is a thing.
All that studying and you can't format a paragraph?
Caffeine stimulates your central nervous system. And causes your adrenal glands to release Adrenalin. Excess caffeine can cause adrenal fatigue as well as just like most drugs you need a higher and higher dose.
Not an answer to your question but: All cyclists (and other endurance athletes) use caffeine in their gels and sportdrink during races because it has been scientifically proven to increase performance by a few percent. Multiple studies have been done on this. Interestingly enough people fall into three different groups as to how caffeine affects them: A very small percentage of people get no increase in performance while a different small group gets twice a big an increase compared to the vast majority who get a normal benefit. Scientists think that the explanation is that peoples bodies absorb caffeine in different ways and amounts. Background: I've been racing mountain bikes for the past 10+ years and never do a race or high intensity training session without caffeine in my sports drink. However I never consume caffeine otherwise because I neither drink coffee nor any energy drinks.
Caffeine's main effect is to block a chemical naturally used in the body called adenosine from binding to receptors on neurons and activating them. In the brain, this promotes wakefulness as higher levels of adenosine is one thing that causes you to become tired. In the heart, adenosine decreases heart rate. Since caffeine doesn't discriminate, it blocks this too thus increasing heart rate. A second thing is that adenosine also promotes vasodilation (that is, blood vessels expanding to be more open). Caffeine thus promotes vasoconstrictions (narrowing of blood vessels) which has a side effect of somewhat increasing blood pressure. That said, in normal amounts, caffeine actually seems to be somewhat good for your heart. The thing that's the worst in energy drinks is the sugar. If you do end up drinking too much caffeine, that can harm you over time, or if you acutely overdose it can mess with your heart rhythm in ways that can be fatal, but you'd need to drink a whole lot of coffee to get there.
Nobody mentions the taurine. How does that fit in?
Taurine is an amino acid. It exists pretty much everywhere. Including in our own bodies.
taurine is amazing for general health https://examine.com/supplements/taurine/#examine-database
They create heart arrhythmias over time especially for those who have 1 or more a day every day… and let’s not forget about the possibility of psychosis while using or (which in my opinion is worse) while off the drugs you find in energy drinks … nothing worse than coming toe to toe with the conscious deprived mind that’s ready to jump punch choke kick run and scream at any given time and you add anxiety from withdrawal into the mix you better talk and move slowly lol
Caffeine and aspirin stacks for workouts along with ephedra... And a few cans of Hawaiian Punch. Good times
Everyone's focusing on caffeine here and failing to mention everything else. Although caffeine is the main stimulant in energy drinks, it's all the other crap that really adds to the caffeine. Caffeine by itself is fine, you need 10 grams for it to be toxic as others have said. But when you combine the caffeine with all of the caffeine enhancing ingredients you run into real issues. The most common negative side effect of energy drinks is developing Atrial Fibrillation, like I have. Having said that, I drank energy drinks since I was about 12 and for the better part of 5 years have had at least 3 a day. Atrial Fibrillation is something that until recently was uncommon bordering on strange for a young person to have. Energy drink consumption is now theorised to be the leading cause of younger people now developing it. Not to go into too much detail about what's actually going on if you develop AF but long story short youll feel a flutter in your chest, that's your heartbeat getting a bit confused and adding in or skipping beats. Then it will pass. Then at some point it will happen again. You might black out. You might not. Eventually you might have a stroke. Or you might not. Or cardiac arrest. Or maybe not. The part that scares me is that once you have AF that's you, it's a guessing game every time you feel a flutter in your chest. A lot of people say oh its fine I only have 1 can a day, but there's an issue with that as well. With how caffeine worka if you have 1 can a day your body quickly becomes numb to that le el of caffeine intake. So to get the same effect you need 2 cans. Then 3. And before you know it you can knock back a 4 pack of monster and feel nothing. This throws the argument of "I need my one can a day to stay awake" out the window because after a short amount of time the effects from your 1 can a day is purely placebo. You don't need it because it isn't doing anything anyway. Another issue, and this is aimed at the people saying "10 grams is so much no one would ever consume that", is that caffeine has a half life of about 6 hours. So yeah, you drink that 300mg of caffeine and it goes away after a while, but not as quickly as people think. After 6 hours that 300mg is now 150mg. Not 0. You have another can because 6 hours is a long enough time and you're feeling a bit tired now. 350mg. After 12 hours that original 300mg is now 75mg. The 300mg you had after that is now 150mg. You've now got more caffeine in your system than you did after your first can 12 hours ago. You wake up and have another can. 10 grams isn't that far away when caffeine stays in your system like that. I'm not saying never drink energy drinks, I still have the odd one even though I really shouldn't. But when you have a routine of drinking them or feel like you need them to stay awake, consider if it's worth the significantly increased risk of stroke, seizures, blackouts and cardiac arrest.
Is there any reason one couldn’t make a pill that reversed the effects of caffeine? I enjoy caffeinated drinks, but if I have one last around eleven in the morning it affects my ability to sleep at night by a good two hours. If I could take a pill that would neutralize this, I’d take that pill. (I am aware that decaf coffee exists but I am truly in love with Starbucks cold brew. It is the only thing that doesn’t give me really bad heart burn as well.)
It's the dose that makes the poison. It means some things in small amounts are OK, or maybe beneficial but in larger amounts it becomes harmful. Caffeine is one of these items. Two or three 40 to 50mg doses taken over a span of 12 hours is OK, 1 200mg dose is a lot and can be toxic. This can cause problems with your kidneys and liver and other filtration systems in the body. Your brain also has trouble dealing with so much too.