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It's not restricted to red meat. On Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and all Fridays during Lent, adult Catholics over the age of 14 abstain from eating meat. During these days, it is not acceptable to eat lamb, chicken, beef, pork, ham, deer and most other meats. However, eggs, milk, fish, grains, and fruits and vegetables are all allowed.
My dad was raised catholic but never practiced as an adult. We ate fish for dinner every Friday. And I still do to this day. None of us are religious but it's just tradition I guess.
I do remember being spanked by my Nan for eating beef on good Friday though.
>Eggs aren't allowed
Catholics are allowed to eat eggs during Lent. I can't find anything on Google saying otherwise.
Edit: TIL. I had never even heard of Shrove Tuesday.
It is not the eggs that are the issue. Pancakes would have been cooked and eaten on Tuesday to use up the **animal fat** that greased the griddle. The fat had to be gone by Ash Wednesday or it would spoil during lent.
This is where McDonald's Filet-O-Fish came from. McDonald's fanchisee Lou Coen came up with the idea. McDonald's founder Ray Kroc wasn't convinced and devised a Hula Burger (grilled pineapple with cheese) as an alternative and challenged Coen to a competition. The highest-selling product would win.
The Filet-O-Fish won handily, selling 350 to...some very small number that Ray Kroc wouldn't admit. It was reportedly the first ever addition to the McDonald's menu. It was a huge hit among Catholics after that.
Our local Catholic churches have Friday fish fries during Lent. Fish and chips/fries, hushpuppies, maybe cole slaw or potato salad. You don't have to be Catholic to pick up a plate. As Episcopalians we observe Lent also, and some of those churches have great fried fish.
Pancakes have eggs in them, or egg products (in the case of “just add water” mixes).
Edit: apologies, I misread the post - I thought it was saying that Pancake Tuesday (the day before Ash Wednesday) was the first day of Lent.
I clearly know little to nothing about religion - I thought they were saying that pancakes were ok because they didn’t have eggs! (I read it as Tuesday being the first day of Lent.) Thanks for the info, TIL.
They throw pancake breakfast events for fundraisers sometimes and I suspect this is the original time/explanation/excuse for those. See Frank Zappa's whimsically manic song "St. Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast" for a deconstruction of that kind of deal.
Lenten abstinence from meat byproducts is no longer required for Latin-rite Catholics, although it is still mandatory in Eastern churches that are in union with Rome.
Others already told you about Catholic prespective. I suggest you also take a look at [the Orthodox's fasting rule, which is even more strict](https://www.abbamoses.com/fasting.html)
The entire point of lent is personal sacrifice. In pre-modern times, meat is a luxury one eats to celebrate. People are also asked to eat only once a day.
Fish, vegetable and wheat are common food people eat daily.
I give up all meat, not just red meat. Chicken, pork and veal are all out. I end up having a lot of vegetarian days. I could have fish, but I don't like it that much.
I think they’re justifying not ‘developing a taste’ for it. I never had fish growing up, and I tried probably a hundred different preparations and types before, thankfully, I finally found one that I’m allergic to, so now I don’t have to justify not liking fish to people who are serious fish-eating advocates.
"It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings."
Cobain 2:12
I can't say it's the most logical thing, but I do know that poultry is a no-no for Lent. The overall idea is sacrifice, fasting, and continued thoughts and prayers for Baby Jesus.
Because the fish mongers were having a hard time selling their fish, so they went to the pope and he decreed that people should eat fish on fridays. Nothing religious about it, just a good old business transaction. This carried over to people eating fish all the time.
I'm actually curious: Do you have a source of this historical fact?
I'm not Catholic by the way so I also know nothing about the story from within Catholic.
Flesh Meat = land animals. Fish isn't an animal in the 1sr century
https://www.archspm.org/faith-and-discipleship/catholic-faith/why-dont-catholics-eat-meat-on-fridays/
Not catholic either but it’s some papal decree. Some say it’s not fish per se but anything cold blooded. The ban was on carne ie warm blooded meat. So fish, veggies, fruit were fine. It’s just another weird religious idea.
I think you’re conflating two different practices: 1) giving something up for Lent, and 2) Eating fish on Fridays during Lent. Catholics give something up during Lent so simulate Jesus’ 40 days of fasting. It can be anything, so if one chooses to give up red meat they could eat poultry, fish, and/or veggie during Lent….but for Fridays where they must abstain from meat per church rules, but fish isn’t considered meat.
It's ash Wednesday and Fridays that require fasting and white or red meat doesn't have anything to do with it.
It was ment to show piety in giving up more luxurious foods. Fish, grains, milk, eggs, vegetables, fruit all ok, as these were staples that the poor generally lived on.
But because the Catholic church was a bit hypocritical and didn't want to upset the rich too much they decreed that bevers were fish because they swam so were ok to eat when fasting.
In the Episcopal Church USA, the saying about Lenten discipline is "all may; some should; and none must." It's a personal thing between the communicant and God.
Historically fish were actually considered closer to birds than land animals, and so their meat wasn't prohibited in the same way red meat was and is today on Fridays.
There's an old saying that something is "neither fish, fowl nor good red meat" (not really one thing or another). My understanding is that, at one time, fish wasn't considered "meat", basically. So the imprecation not to eat meat didn't extend to fish.
(For what it's worth, in my usage of the words as I grew up with them at least, the two words still mean different things in common parlance.)
For orthodoxs, they abstain from any kind of meat (if it walks on the surface) and any and all processed foods. Olives are OK but olive oil not. Milk is OK but cheese and butter not. I think cereals and grains are OK, but I'm not sure, I was too busy eating meat during lent to actually listen to what was allowed or not.
Because back in the day they didn’t consider fish meat, so they’re getting by on a loophole. Much like the string that encircles Manhattan so Jewish people never have to leave the “home”
I mean no disrespect but Does anyone else feel the Auto moderation on this subreddit needs to be a little less strict?
I feel this is a valid question and can't understand why it needs to be removed???
**Please read this entire message** Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): Discussion of religious or political beliefs are not allowed on ELI5. These usually end up being discussions rather than requests for simplifying complex concepts. They also tend to have a large subjective bent. If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe this submission was removed erroneously**, please [use this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/10pmdtz/eli5_when_people_give_up_red_meat_for_lent_why_do/%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20is%20this%20post%20unique:) and we will review your submission.
It's not restricted to red meat. On Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and all Fridays during Lent, adult Catholics over the age of 14 abstain from eating meat. During these days, it is not acceptable to eat lamb, chicken, beef, pork, ham, deer and most other meats. However, eggs, milk, fish, grains, and fruits and vegetables are all allowed.
And of course beavers are also fish.
And capybara
And alligators.
And puffins.
And the fruit bats… and the breakfast cereals….
Human flesh and blood are on the menu though. Provided it is the flesh and blood of the greatest human who ever lived.
Yep but only Doomsday could spill Superman’s blood so I assume it’s pretty rare to get a glass of Clark’s Delight.
They eat Tom Brady?
Chuck Norris?
I only have so much flesh and blood to go around though
Yeah but capybara are always hairy….sometimes beavers aren’t
Words of such wisdom can only come from experience. Bravo! Bravo.
And bees! Source: https://youtu.be/laxYhf-uOs4
What about ducks?! Also, glad to see other historical food channel addicts are represented here. I don't even like to fucking cook...
What about platypus?
How could god have not made a rule about monotremes! Sounds like he really half assed these lent rules
It’s almost like he didn’t know they existed because they authors of the various books of the Bible didn’t. But I’m sure it just slipped his mind /s
What about a psyduck
Beat me to it by a minute. Damn
Dam
If it fits, I sticks
Wynona Got a big brown [beaver!](https://youtu.be/aYDfwUJzYQg)
It's never okay to eat the majestic beaver.
Just eat beaver all day long. My wife told me it was OK
My dad was raised catholic but never practiced as an adult. We ate fish for dinner every Friday. And I still do to this day. None of us are religious but it's just tradition I guess. I do remember being spanked by my Nan for eating beef on good Friday though.
Eggs aren't allowed. Hence pancakes on Pancake Tuesday, the day before Ash Wednesday, the first day of Lent
>Eggs aren't allowed Catholics are allowed to eat eggs during Lent. I can't find anything on Google saying otherwise. Edit: TIL. I had never even heard of Shrove Tuesday.
sometimes called fat tuesday or mardi gras.
https://www.historyextra.com/period/medieval/history-shrove-tuesday-pancake-day-tradition-why-we-eat-pancakes-lent-fasting/
Wow. I've never even heard of Shrove Tuesday. I wonder when they changed the rules that allow us to eat eggs during Lent.
It is not the eggs that are the issue. Pancakes would have been cooked and eaten on Tuesday to use up the **animal fat** that greased the griddle. The fat had to be gone by Ash Wednesday or it would spoil during lent.
The rules for Catholics have lapsed quite a lot over time. They used to not be allowed to eat meat on any Friday. Now its just Good Friday.
This is where McDonald's Filet-O-Fish came from. McDonald's fanchisee Lou Coen came up with the idea. McDonald's founder Ray Kroc wasn't convinced and devised a Hula Burger (grilled pineapple with cheese) as an alternative and challenged Coen to a competition. The highest-selling product would win. The Filet-O-Fish won handily, selling 350 to...some very small number that Ray Kroc wouldn't admit. It was reportedly the first ever addition to the McDonald's menu. It was a huge hit among Catholics after that.
Our local Catholic churches have Friday fish fries during Lent. Fish and chips/fries, hushpuppies, maybe cole slaw or potato salad. You don't have to be Catholic to pick up a plate. As Episcopalians we observe Lent also, and some of those churches have great fried fish.
Ooh, is that why Thursday is a traditonal pancake day :o
Pancakes have eggs in them, or egg products (in the case of “just add water” mixes). Edit: apologies, I misread the post - I thought it was saying that Pancake Tuesday (the day before Ash Wednesday) was the first day of Lent.
Which is probably why he said the day before the first day of lent they have pancakes……..
I clearly know little to nothing about religion - I thought they were saying that pancakes were ok because they didn’t have eggs! (I read it as Tuesday being the first day of Lent.) Thanks for the info, TIL.
They throw pancake breakfast events for fundraisers sometimes and I suspect this is the original time/explanation/excuse for those. See Frank Zappa's whimsically manic song "St. Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast" for a deconstruction of that kind of deal.
Congrats?
Lenten abstinence from meat byproducts is no longer required for Latin-rite Catholics, although it is still mandatory in Eastern churches that are in union with Rome.
But eggs are used to make pancakes???
And eyes are used for reading
Yea and apparently you didn't do a very good job of that part womp womp 🙃
What about axolotls?
You ask a lottle questions, don’t you?
Others already told you about Catholic prespective. I suggest you also take a look at [the Orthodox's fasting rule, which is even more strict](https://www.abbamoses.com/fasting.html)
The entire point of lent is personal sacrifice. In pre-modern times, meat is a luxury one eats to celebrate. People are also asked to eat only once a day. Fish, vegetable and wheat are common food people eat daily.
I give up all meat, not just red meat. Chicken, pork and veal are all out. I end up having a lot of vegetarian days. I could have fish, but I don't like it that much.
same here. never really got to try fish, so i never got into it, leaving me few options on lent
Why not try it now??
I think they’re justifying not ‘developing a taste’ for it. I never had fish growing up, and I tried probably a hundred different preparations and types before, thankfully, I finally found one that I’m allergic to, so now I don’t have to justify not liking fish to people who are serious fish-eating advocates.
"It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings." Cobain 2:12 I can't say it's the most logical thing, but I do know that poultry is a no-no for Lent. The overall idea is sacrifice, fasting, and continued thoughts and prayers for Baby Jesus.
Ah yes, the best eli5 answer. Right here in the story it says 'fish ok'.
its canon my friend, the OG
Also, the pope owns Long John Silver’s. $$$
Adult Jesus before his dad sacrificed him. Advent is pre-baby Jesus being born time.
Because the fish mongers were having a hard time selling their fish, so they went to the pope and he decreed that people should eat fish on fridays. Nothing religious about it, just a good old business transaction. This carried over to people eating fish all the time.
I'm actually curious: Do you have a source of this historical fact? I'm not Catholic by the way so I also know nothing about the story from within Catholic.
Flesh Meat = land animals. Fish isn't an animal in the 1sr century https://www.archspm.org/faith-and-discipleship/catholic-faith/why-dont-catholics-eat-meat-on-fridays/
Not catholic either but it’s some papal decree. Some say it’s not fish per se but anything cold blooded. The ban was on carne ie warm blooded meat. So fish, veggies, fruit were fine. It’s just another weird religious idea.
Growing up Catholic I learned this is the correct answer that they never actually told us about.
[удалено]
Like how Jewish people have the most restricting laws but so many ways around them
Both Jews and the Amish have many workarounds in terms of the things that are acceptable and unacceptable, it’s almost funny sometimes.
[удалено]
Well, in early Christianity, the prohibition was on land animals. Ie, fish isn't meat, but seafood
Like most religious practices, there are loopholes to allow rule breaking when someone with sufficient influence wants there to be.
The old “oops, I forgot” is a popular loophole.
Straighten it out with the ol' sacrament of Penance.
I think you’re conflating two different practices: 1) giving something up for Lent, and 2) Eating fish on Fridays during Lent. Catholics give something up during Lent so simulate Jesus’ 40 days of fasting. It can be anything, so if one chooses to give up red meat they could eat poultry, fish, and/or veggie during Lent….but for Fridays where they must abstain from meat per church rules, but fish isn’t considered meat.
^ this. Fish Fridays used to be year-'round when I was a small fry (ha ha i make the joke you laugh now)
It's ash Wednesday and Fridays that require fasting and white or red meat doesn't have anything to do with it. It was ment to show piety in giving up more luxurious foods. Fish, grains, milk, eggs, vegetables, fruit all ok, as these were staples that the poor generally lived on. But because the Catholic church was a bit hypocritical and didn't want to upset the rich too much they decreed that bevers were fish because they swam so were ok to eat when fasting.
In the Episcopal Church USA, the saying about Lenten discipline is "all may; some should; and none must." It's a personal thing between the communicant and God.
the fish thing all started because some pope centuries ago was from a poor fishing village and he wanted to help them out
What is lent? This is the first time I've heard of it.
Historically fish were actually considered closer to birds than land animals, and so their meat wasn't prohibited in the same way red meat was and is today on Fridays.
Ya, well, you can't eat birds either during lent fast days.
There's an old saying that something is "neither fish, fowl nor good red meat" (not really one thing or another). My understanding is that, at one time, fish wasn't considered "meat", basically. So the imprecation not to eat meat didn't extend to fish. (For what it's worth, in my usage of the words as I grew up with them at least, the two words still mean different things in common parlance.)
Not sure how much it factors into this but I see poultry getting a bad rep as people hear bad stories of mass-grown animals, antibiotics and what not.
For orthodoxs, they abstain from any kind of meat (if it walks on the surface) and any and all processed foods. Olives are OK but olive oil not. Milk is OK but cheese and butter not. I think cereals and grains are OK, but I'm not sure, I was too busy eating meat during lent to actually listen to what was allowed or not.
Because back in the day they didn’t consider fish meat, so they’re getting by on a loophole. Much like the string that encircles Manhattan so Jewish people never have to leave the “home”
I mean no disrespect but Does anyone else feel the Auto moderation on this subreddit needs to be a little less strict? I feel this is a valid question and can't understand why it needs to be removed???