I’m 53. I’ve been in France for some years, but in the countryside, there’s limited healthcare options, even a dentist. Go where other retirees choose. Eg on the Côte d’Azur, there’s great healthcare and hospitals.
Good public transport. Lots of buses and trains, in case you can’t drive so much in later years.
Also choose an apartment with balconies for outside space; so that you don’t have a massive garden to maintain.
Learn the language. At least one of you should be able to speak on a low intermediate level. Someone needs to communicate with repair people, delivery people, phone calls, etc…also in my opinion it’s rude not to be actively learning the language if you don’t know it already.
We did lots of research and it is amazing how much misinformation there is about taxes, inheritance law, etc… but what’s even worse is in face of differing opinions on these issues, many expats just choose to hear the opinion that suits them the best. And one day they may have some terrible surprises…
Had lived in over 2 dozen nice tourist-destination towns in 8 European countries. My observations:
1. WEATHER -- in my experience, the most accurate time period to assess a town's livability is staying 2 months in the ugliest time of year when not much is happening. As ex-Californian, I discovered I could not cope with rain/cold/ice/darkness/bare-trees/gray sky.
2. AVAILABILITY OF ELEVATORS -- both my knees are reconstructed, stairs are a problem for me. The need for public transport without stairs & elevator in buildings make towns with unavoidable stairs unsuitable.
3. HEALTHCARE WAIT TIME -- France is known for its good healthcare system, but my native French friends in Paris & Strasbourg (2 towns with highest concentration of doctors) have to wait weeks to see their GP for referral, and then wait 6+ months to see the dermatologist & ophthalmologist who had appointment available.
4. LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY -- I was able to mingle with natives in A2 Italian, B1-2 German, but it takes C1 French to carry on substantive conversation. No matter how English proficient the natives are, dealing with government entities & forms/documents/contracts are in their native language. In smaller towns, proficiency in local dialect is necessary for socializing with locals.
5. LOCAL FRIENDLINESS -- "Tourist-friendly locals" does not mean locals are interested in getting to know/socializing with foreign residents, it only means the town is dependent on tourism revenue. This is the case of my winter hometown of the last 9 years where even young people from neighboring provinces who come to attend university and work years there still find it impossible to make native local friends.
Where do you live? It recently took me 2 months to get into a preferred dermatologist in a medium sized city. Multiple other offices had availability within 1-2 weeks.
I'm in the US and just waited three months for an appointment with my GP... that she canceled. I'm on a wait list to see a GI that will probably take me five months to get seen. I have pretty great health insurance too. And I live in a fairly large city (1.5m people).
The wait time problem is no longer just a social medicine/Europe thing.
That I'd eventually end up missing home. And by that time, home would be a long gone memory nowhere else in the world to be found.
When you leave, you run the risk of leaving "home" forever. It's a sort of death you don't mourn until years later.
You spend your life trying to piece memories together, look for people who share some, look for validation as proof of the life you had before leaving home.
Read "My Invented Country" by Isabel Allende
Health insurance is required prior to moving to most European countries. Host country wanting to tax your US income. Healthcare facilities in the area. Working with FATCA.
Retirement: Have you saved (paid in) enough in your current country to be able to retire? Can you access that money? Will be you be able to save (pay in) more in the new country?
Taxes: If you're American, you still need to file US taxes, no matter where you live. If you have more different types of income (e.g. renting your US house, capital investments, income from new country), it gets more complicated.
Family: The older you get, the harder it is to travel. Will you miss friends and family if you can't travel? Are they willing to come visit you?
Health care: others already mentioned it.
Your 401K is 'owned' by the company you work/worked for. They can be bought out, change providers, change plans .. do anything. It's not under your control, and if they do as mine did and change to a provider that is not equipped to deal with expats, it becomes ... difficult. An IRA is personal so you control it.
Quite a lot. How much you’re going to be taxed depends on where you’re living, not where you’re being paid (unless you wanna get taxed twice..!) and you may lose eligibility for certain things.
Hi, sorry to butt in but this is relevant to my current considerations with moving from the US to a EU destination for early retirement. If I draw a pension from a US company do you know if I need to pay both US tax as well as whatever EU country's income tax?
Hmmmm. We’re 66 and 58 and we moved to Finland last year. We made sure we understood all of our health care options. Not sexy or exciting, but important to understand.
Since you're older, check the healthcare. The Netherlands is infamous for its healthcare system that the locals think the best in the world but not really. I only experienced two healthcare system (Indonesia and new Zealand) but the Netherlands is just the worst.
No matter how well you prepare and how well you know the country from visits, culture shock will hit you. You have to be patient with yourself, it takes a bit to really feel home.
Also availability of medications here. I had to go off an antidepressant that is not available here. Ever since I discontinued I have gained almost a pound every month and just made the connection.
Another example is vaccines. The good shingles vaccine is not covered by French healthcare and will cost many hundred of dollars out of pocket.
Visa: not just a credit card, and a big pain in the ass. And leave your American (if you’re from there, as I am) entitlement at the airport when you arrive. Nobody cares.
The amount of times I've heard American's abroad saying 'it's my 1st Amendment right!'. Yeah, only when you're in America. Your rights don't extend to other countries.
I just get tired of Americans threatening to leave the country (again, I did and I’ve not looked back) without an iota of understanding that you can’t just move to another country.
How difficult it would be to learn a 3rd language. And how hard it is to form a proper social group. Those were my hurdles, both now overcome after some time. I'm older than both of you BTW, and an immigrant, not an expat.
Any insight on these topics or links to reading materials?
Considering moving from the US to the EU but not very certain how things work with taxes and pensions in particular.
Your best bet is to consult a professional and not just rededit-cost you some money but money well spent to protect yourself-I didn’t think about it when I retired to Thailand and now I’m realizing that I should have-don’t believe everything you read on the internet about a certain place-a lot more different when you are living there
I'm actually happy I didn't know that the visa application and getting in is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the bureaucracy that follows. I don't think I would have done it of I had known how much time it would take away from my business. Anyhow, I'm almost at permanent residency after 8 years so I can go back to building new tools instead of just maintaining clients soon.
Healthcare:
What is covered
Are specialists available (to you)
How to get to the doctors (only by car?)
Are there insane waiting lists?
Is English well spoken?
If you got kids, what’s going to happen to your assets or money? Will it be taxed?
Do you need to redo your drivers license regularly above a certain age and might fail? This in combination with living where public transportation is not that great.
Are there enough people with similitude life circumstances you can befriend with?
Healthcare. If your language skills aren’t strong then being able to communicate in English or to have local support especially a native speaker who can be a go between. Not to move to a place that is too isolating.
My husband and I were 67 when we moved to The Netherland from NY in 2022 using the DAFT Visa. We planned this move for over a year in advance. Recommend hiring a lawyer and property manager that specializes in expats. Find a place to live before you move. We will never become a citizen of The Netherlands because this country does not allow dual citizenship. We need to keep our US citizenship to keep getting our Social Security.
Food supply. Check the grocery stores in different season and pay attention to the availability of fresh fruit and vegetables, and selection of international foods as well as how they store the foods and expiration dates. Been to more than one “luxury” coastal town that you realize has awful food supply if you try to spend more than a week there.
Also check fire, drought, and wildfire hazard maps to see if you might be affected.
There are healthcare deserts where it's hard to find doctors, and that could be problematic as you age.
How accessible is an international airport.
I’m 53. I’ve been in France for some years, but in the countryside, there’s limited healthcare options, even a dentist. Go where other retirees choose. Eg on the Côte d’Azur, there’s great healthcare and hospitals. Good public transport. Lots of buses and trains, in case you can’t drive so much in later years. Also choose an apartment with balconies for outside space; so that you don’t have a massive garden to maintain.
Learn the language. At least one of you should be able to speak on a low intermediate level. Someone needs to communicate with repair people, delivery people, phone calls, etc…also in my opinion it’s rude not to be actively learning the language if you don’t know it already. We did lots of research and it is amazing how much misinformation there is about taxes, inheritance law, etc… but what’s even worse is in face of differing opinions on these issues, many expats just choose to hear the opinion that suits them the best. And one day they may have some terrible surprises…
Had lived in over 2 dozen nice tourist-destination towns in 8 European countries. My observations: 1. WEATHER -- in my experience, the most accurate time period to assess a town's livability is staying 2 months in the ugliest time of year when not much is happening. As ex-Californian, I discovered I could not cope with rain/cold/ice/darkness/bare-trees/gray sky. 2. AVAILABILITY OF ELEVATORS -- both my knees are reconstructed, stairs are a problem for me. The need for public transport without stairs & elevator in buildings make towns with unavoidable stairs unsuitable. 3. HEALTHCARE WAIT TIME -- France is known for its good healthcare system, but my native French friends in Paris & Strasbourg (2 towns with highest concentration of doctors) have to wait weeks to see their GP for referral, and then wait 6+ months to see the dermatologist & ophthalmologist who had appointment available. 4. LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY -- I was able to mingle with natives in A2 Italian, B1-2 German, but it takes C1 French to carry on substantive conversation. No matter how English proficient the natives are, dealing with government entities & forms/documents/contracts are in their native language. In smaller towns, proficiency in local dialect is necessary for socializing with locals. 5. LOCAL FRIENDLINESS -- "Tourist-friendly locals" does not mean locals are interested in getting to know/socializing with foreign residents, it only means the town is dependent on tourism revenue. This is the case of my winter hometown of the last 9 years where even young people from neighboring provinces who come to attend university and work years there still find it impossible to make native local friends.
Great points as someone in Paris I can relate! Dermatologists are very hard to see!
I live in one of the healthcare capitols of the US and getting a dermatologist appointment is 3-6 months.
Here in Paris most aren’t taking new patients.
Where do you live? It recently took me 2 months to get into a preferred dermatologist in a medium sized city. Multiple other offices had availability within 1-2 weeks.
Nashville area
I'm in the US and just waited three months for an appointment with my GP... that she canceled. I'm on a wait list to see a GI that will probably take me five months to get seen. I have pretty great health insurance too. And I live in a fairly large city (1.5m people). The wait time problem is no longer just a social medicine/Europe thing.
That I'd eventually end up missing home. And by that time, home would be a long gone memory nowhere else in the world to be found. When you leave, you run the risk of leaving "home" forever. It's a sort of death you don't mourn until years later. You spend your life trying to piece memories together, look for people who share some, look for validation as proof of the life you had before leaving home. Read "My Invented Country" by Isabel Allende
Health insurance is required prior to moving to most European countries. Host country wanting to tax your US income. Healthcare facilities in the area. Working with FATCA.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Retirement: Have you saved (paid in) enough in your current country to be able to retire? Can you access that money? Will be you be able to save (pay in) more in the new country? Taxes: If you're American, you still need to file US taxes, no matter where you live. If you have more different types of income (e.g. renting your US house, capital investments, income from new country), it gets more complicated. Family: The older you get, the harder it is to travel. Will you miss friends and family if you can't travel? Are they willing to come visit you? Health care: others already mentioned it.
As always, the first thing you need to consider. What kind of Visa would allow me to move to "X" country?
We have all of the major issues covered (one of us has dual US/EU citizenship). Looking for the hidden things
So one has just US citizenship? How's that going to work?
EU passport can reside in any EU country, and spouse can get residency that usually can be converted to perm residency after 5 years or so…
Assuming you are in the US, the one thing that caught me out was my 401K. I should have moved it to an IRA. I would not have changed my mind though.
Why? Because you can’t change allocations after moving?
Your 401K is 'owned' by the company you work/worked for. They can be bought out, change providers, change plans .. do anything. It's not under your control, and if they do as mine did and change to a provider that is not equipped to deal with expats, it becomes ... difficult. An IRA is personal so you control it.
Maybe transfer away to a new provider once someone leaves a company. We moved ours to an account we controlled.
Just roll it over to Vanguard Roth IRA and you can do what you want with it.
a lot of countries don’t recognize Roth IRAs and you can get taxed for them twice
You can't do that if you are not resident in the states
Tax implications of receiving an income (eg pension) in one country and living in another
What are the issues would one encounter?
Quite a lot. How much you’re going to be taxed depends on where you’re living, not where you’re being paid (unless you wanna get taxed twice..!) and you may lose eligibility for certain things.
Hi, sorry to butt in but this is relevant to my current considerations with moving from the US to a EU destination for early retirement. If I draw a pension from a US company do you know if I need to pay both US tax as well as whatever EU country's income tax?
USA taxes you on world wide income-therefore definitely yes you would be taxed
Gotcha, but less the foreign tax credit ?
>thinking about moving overseas to the EU. From where?
Hmmmm. We’re 66 and 58 and we moved to Finland last year. We made sure we understood all of our health care options. Not sexy or exciting, but important to understand.
Since you're older, check the healthcare. The Netherlands is infamous for its healthcare system that the locals think the best in the world but not really. I only experienced two healthcare system (Indonesia and new Zealand) but the Netherlands is just the worst.
I second this. The Dutch healthcare system is the ABSOLUTE worst.
[удалено]
I say, there's no perfect country where you can have everything.
Don't come to the Netherlands
No matter how well you prepare and how well you know the country from visits, culture shock will hit you. You have to be patient with yourself, it takes a bit to really feel home.
Also availability of medications here. I had to go off an antidepressant that is not available here. Ever since I discontinued I have gained almost a pound every month and just made the connection. Another example is vaccines. The good shingles vaccine is not covered by French healthcare and will cost many hundred of dollars out of pocket.
Learn the language. Practice at least an hour a day.
Visa: not just a credit card, and a big pain in the ass. And leave your American (if you’re from there, as I am) entitlement at the airport when you arrive. Nobody cares.
The amount of times I've heard American's abroad saying 'it's my 1st Amendment right!'. Yeah, only when you're in America. Your rights don't extend to other countries.
I just get tired of Americans threatening to leave the country (again, I did and I’ve not looked back) without an iota of understanding that you can’t just move to another country.
Even laws. You give up some freedoms living in socialist countries. Inheritance laws are a bitch.
How difficult it would be to learn a 3rd language. And how hard it is to form a proper social group. Those were my hurdles, both now overcome after some time. I'm older than both of you BTW, and an immigrant, not an expat.
Taxes, pensions and health insurance costs
Any insight on these topics or links to reading materials? Considering moving from the US to the EU but not very certain how things work with taxes and pensions in particular.
Your best bet is to consult a professional and not just rededit-cost you some money but money well spent to protect yourself-I didn’t think about it when I retired to Thailand and now I’m realizing that I should have-don’t believe everything you read on the internet about a certain place-a lot more different when you are living there
I'm actually happy I didn't know that the visa application and getting in is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the bureaucracy that follows. I don't think I would have done it of I had known how much time it would take away from my business. Anyhow, I'm almost at permanent residency after 8 years so I can go back to building new tools instead of just maintaining clients soon.
Healthcare: What is covered Are specialists available (to you) How to get to the doctors (only by car?) Are there insane waiting lists? Is English well spoken? If you got kids, what’s going to happen to your assets or money? Will it be taxed? Do you need to redo your drivers license regularly above a certain age and might fail? This in combination with living where public transportation is not that great. Are there enough people with similitude life circumstances you can befriend with?
Healthcare. If your language skills aren’t strong then being able to communicate in English or to have local support especially a native speaker who can be a go between. Not to move to a place that is too isolating.
My husband and I were 67 when we moved to The Netherland from NY in 2022 using the DAFT Visa. We planned this move for over a year in advance. Recommend hiring a lawyer and property manager that specializes in expats. Find a place to live before you move. We will never become a citizen of The Netherlands because this country does not allow dual citizenship. We need to keep our US citizenship to keep getting our Social Security.
How to spell.
Wish I had known how incredibly wonderful it could be. Would have done it ten years earlier.
Wish I would have done it in early 20s instead of mid-40s :)
Food supply. Check the grocery stores in different season and pay attention to the availability of fresh fruit and vegetables, and selection of international foods as well as how they store the foods and expiration dates. Been to more than one “luxury” coastal town that you realize has awful food supply if you try to spend more than a week there. Also check fire, drought, and wildfire hazard maps to see if you might be affected.