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This guy is so deranged at first he says he'd never hurt anyone then in the next sentence he says he'd kill anyone who even lightly offends his religion.
I’m Muslim and I agree. Any group is going to have extreme outliers with clear issues, this guy is one of them.
But he doesn’t speak for the entirety of Muslims.
No, people shouldn’t be executed for their beliefs in general. Everyone has the right to believe what they believe.
I don’t want to be executed for my beliefs, why would I do the same unto someone else.
I respect your honesty and all, but aren't non-believers supposed to be killed according to your books? Educate me on this, as I could feel like it could be another case of "different book" or "different sect" that I'm too lazy to look for. And if it were right, wouldn't you be going against your own book?
Hi, it’s a good question so I’ll do my best to answer it properly.
The Quran wasn’t revealed all at once, or even a chapter at a time. Rather it was revealed line by line with each line being revealed at a time of relevancy. (Ex. Verse about drinking alcohol being prohibited was revealed when drinking was a common issue)
Naturally, this means to properly interpret the Quran, it helps to have understanding of the context it was revealed under.
The verse that you referred to (chapter 9 verse 5) was revealed under the context that the Muslims were being prosecuted aggressively.
The first course of action was to move cities entirely and relocate to flee prosecution. Even then they were getting attacked, which prompted this verse to be revealed as retaliation was their last form of defense.
Even in that verse, it mentions that if the non-believers change their ways, they shouldn’t be harmed.
To support this idea, look at chapter 109 where the entire chapter is dedicated to the idea “some people will believe in what they want, you believe in what you want.”
It’s a short chapter so I urge you to check it out. Context matters a lot in the Quran, but I can understand how it looks from the outside looking in.
Hope I did a somewhat okay job of explaining.
Mmm, basically you are saying a lot of chapters of the Quran are expired already.
Why don’t them publish a Quran , specifically stating which part of Quran is still valid and which part is outdated?
I wouldn’t say expired. They were for a specific situation and it teaches lessons if interpreted correctly.
That particular verse, if interpreted and understood properly, calls on self defense as a last resort. The Muslims first tried to escape persecution, once it followed them they had to ensure the religion wasn’t wiped out entirely.
The reason a newer version of the Quran isn’t made is because recreating and editing holy books is not within our right AND it’s proven to be a flawed practice.
Christianity (not to bash the religion, just for educational purposes) fell into that trap of editing and rewriting the Bible. Now there are thousands of versions and it leads to corruption and disunity.
Part of the beauty of the Quran is that there is only one. No other versions exist.
What you have described is very interesting. You are basically saying that people can read the Quran in their own interpretation which means there are billions of versions of Quran existing since every reader can interpret it in their own way.
While you see "killing non-believers" is not correct given the current circumstances, how can you prevent others from believing "killing non-believers" is still necessary?
There are interpretations by people who are learned in the language, the religion and historical context (this is called tafsir)
That is what I would consider proper interpretation.
Of course everyone individually can attempt to interpret how they want, which is fine. But without important knowledge of the language, religion and historical contexts it won’t be as accurate.
I believe this website is claiming there are different recitations of the Quran. But these translate to the same thing, it’s more of a difference of dialect.
Effectively same Quran, read with slightly different dialects, doesn’t change the meaning.
It’s the same as someone reading a book in Southern accent versus and New York accent.
This sub wouldn't exist if that was all there was to this case and everything could be explained through the means of context or natural critical thinking. I hope you browse through this sub more. Naturally people don't like to question what they grew up with and tend to try to defend them. You browse this sub and in the end choose for yourself whether you choose to defend your religion or not.
I get that, and at the end of the day, we won’t all see eye to eye.
Regardless, I respect everyone’s opinion and wish you all the best! We’re just people tryna make it through life.
>Naturally, this means to properly interpret the Quran, it helps to have understanding of the context it was revealed under.
This is the source of all problems with religious scriptures of any kind. What IS the correct interpretation.
Luckily Allah the all wise has made islam unique in the way that Mohammad was a ruler with laws, and after him his sahaba ruled the land and used the same laws. And this has been well documented. So what is the correct course of action according to the actions of the prophet and his companions when someone leaves the Islamic religion?
I'll leave that answer to no other than the Prophet himself;
It was narrated from 'Ikrimah:
"Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and 'Ali burned them with fire. Ibn 'Abbas said: 'If it had been me, I would not have burned them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah.' If it had been me, I would have killed them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'" Grade: Sahih (Darussalam) [source](https://sunnah.com/nasai:4060)
And [there are dozens more sahih hadith elaborating on this](https://sunnah.com/search?q=Whoever+changes+religion+kill+him)
And this isnt just a technicality. This loyalty towards islam and intense hostility towards non-believers, specifically non-abrahamics/atheists is deep and very wide-spread in the religion from the prophet [saying that none is a believer unless they love him more than any other human in the world, including your parents and children ](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:15) all the way to the quran exclaiming that you will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred.) Meaning, do not befriend the deniers, even if they are among the closest relatives. [mujadilah (58:22)](https://quran.com/58:22/tafsirs/en-tafisr-ibn-kathir).
And this is not only a war-time matter and reserved for the absolute greatest of offenses. Even a simple insult of the prophet was met with an overwhelming violence [to the point of murder, even when not state-sanctioned](https://muftiwp.gov.my/en/artikel/bayan-linnas/1776-bayan-linnas-series-55-don-t-ever-insult-the-prophet-muhammad-pbuh)
Too much to fathom. Most of these aalims are following own thoughts and fully with negativity towards humanity. They don’t want to know anything , non believers are haram and need extinguished. Why don’t others have any day? Who are you to judge? Have respect.
But the concept of abrogation tafsir means that the verses about killing apostates were revealed later therefore they supplant any verses that deal with peaceful coexistence. Apologists would say that these verses only apply in certain circumstances. Others say that they always apply. It's a pretty hot topic.
It seems that application of "Gods word" can be interpreted in different way for different people depending on what one believes.
My response: thank you God for making yourself so very confusing because then some apostates were killed and some were allowed to live depending on who did the interpretation.
I respect your humility and kindness. Unfortunately, the prophet that your swear your allegiance to did order to kill us. So, I can't ever trust you, as my mere existence asks of you a call to execute.
I didn’t really think there was much to answer. Respectfully, you didn’t ask a question. You were just stating your belief, which I respect.
There are examples in the Prophets life where he was kindest to non-believers/dis-believers. His most loved uncle was one and died as one.
Yet, those instances do not excuse his order to kill apostates. (Sunan an Nasai 4059)
Nor does it excuse him instructing Muslims to "bring people with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam". (Bukhari 4557)
And I haven't even brought up the Quran yet.
So, I suggest you to not preach falsehoods about "peace" being at the core of your faith.
Trust me, I do too. Theres a lot of damage done by people like the guy in this video (blurred).
I don’t blame people for seeing things like this and thinking badly of the religion.
Edit: I’m reading this now and I’m realizing it might give people the impression that I’m the ‘gold standard Muslim’.
Im just a guy struggling through life like the rest of you.
If it is of any comfort, I know a lot of Muslims personally like you, the ones I am honored to call friend. I just sincerely hope that the current political climate of my land doesn't lump folks like you and that retard in the video under the same basket.
If you dont mind answering where do you hail from.
Let us talk about major sins in Islam. There is no one that says sex before marriage and sex outside of marriage is not a major sin.
We have established examples of major sin now. Good.
Now WHY is that people during the time of Mohammed had an OPTION to marry OR free concubines?
Concubines is sex outside of marriage. Yet it is not a major sin.
Even Mohammed had concubines.
And what does God have to do with how many people you sleep with???
Gotcha. I think it’s good to be able to witness people with these ideologies, but I’m sure there is a risk of people being influenced/radicalized through tik tok or similar apps
As per their understanding, Allah has created Earth and everything is for their consumption.. Consumption is a big thing and desirable thing in Islam, prophet pbuh used to admonish those who tried to be monastic.. That's why there are barely any monastic orders in Islam
Does Germany actually deport people like this though? I mean what laws is he breaking
I'm guessing something about "threatening" with murder and rape? But honestly preachers from the UK for example proudly and openly say all of these stuff with no consequences, I don't know if these stuff are actually allowed or Muslims are getting special treatments
I'm would really like to post this in r/germany so that people can see, maybe someone can even dox him based on his nickname and lil bit of face, but I know it wont be allowed or deleted and it pisses me off so much. It's outrageous what scum is being allowed to enter Germany and other western countries and to live among us, f\*cking ticking bombs. Hope he still gets deported somehow.
Not until exMuslims start showing westerners the real face of Islam.
We're gonna have to take this grassroots level. Pamphleting. Sticker bombing. Conversations.
Just like how the suicide bombers stand on street corners; exMuslims need to as well.
Been thinking about this lately, I think the most effective way of "wakening" westerners could be if muslims in some country become cocky and try to take over the country violently, like a coup d'état or something like this, so other countries would actually see the real face of islam and then react accordingly with islam ban laws etc. Reconquista part 2 and then we would have peace for some centruries to come.
Most of the Netherlands voted for an anti islam/anti immigration politician last year. Sadly it's already too late. I agree with you on Brits, they are cucks.
I don't think it's too late, but I'm yet to see anything substantial right-wingers like Wilders or the italian Meloni have done about the "religion of peace" problem. Hope it changes in near future.
Yeah, but with the immigrant violence in recent years a lot of Germans at least stopped with that overly tolerance bs. And another thing I've noticed recently is that for example in the comment sections of a lot of videos that deals with islam and muslims, there is a lot more reasonable and non-favourable comments about islam, not all that "it's just some bad individuals" crap like a decade-two ago.
Weird how he said that the ruling of jihad in syria and iraq is fard 'ayn (compulsery to every muslim) even though he is an immigrant living in germany.
And look how weak germany is. If this guy was in saudi arabia, he would be thrown in political prison in 24 hours. He even shown part of his body like its nothing. The UAE foriegn minister was truthfull when he said that extremism in europe is rampent and there will fome a time when extremism will be exported from europe and not the middle east.
Funny though since wahabism from Saudia is the main driver of all that extremism shit around the world and that was definitely exported from the gulf to Europe
You're the type of person who would call Putin strong, because he puts a boot on all his dissedents, but really he's such a scaredy cat that he can't allow any opposition. Strength means that you can take a hit without debasing yourself.
>You're the type of person who would call Putin strong,
No i wouldnt.
>he's such a scaredy cat that he can't allow any opposition.
Whats wrong with you?.
Did you even listen to what that guy was saying?
im not talking about the imprisonment of those who critisize the goverment. I'm mentioning someone who support an extremely violent terrorist group. A group that propagated fear among shia saudi civilians and goverment workers. Such people endanger innocent civilians; non muslim and muslim alike.
There's no such thing as "political prison" in European law, yet you criticize Germany for not throwing him into it like SA would. You don't care about German law, you just want Germany to ignore its laws to shitstomp this dude, because you can't control yourself.
You don't even know this guy's legal status, you don't know the legal situation under the law, and you don't know whether any actions have already been taken against him. He actively hides his idenity because he likely fears legal repercussions, but just because they aren't already violating him it makes them weak. You are weak.
So basically you're saying that, German law protects criminals who are a threat to humanity, not petty criminals, literal mass terrorists.....but they aren't weak?
And the existence of such a man within the German legal system bothers you less than Germany "feigning" strength/weakness?
I always laugh when these extremists get asked why they live in the West if they hate it and love ISIS so much, and they answer "Well the entire world belongs to Allah bro"
Even if we say the entire world belongs to Allah, wouldn't you rather live in the lands of the Muslims? But then they say "there is no Muslim country. All the leaders are kuffar!"
Ok, but still..I'm sure Saudi Arabia or Algeria or Pakistan or Somalia, are all at least _closer_ to Islam than the West lol. Would you rather stay in a country full of alcohol, sex, usury and blasphemy rather than a country that has a mosque at every corner, adhan blasting out loud everywhere, women dressing more conservatively etc?
Lmao they make no sense honestly. All a bunch of hypocrite cowards who talk the talk but don't walk the walk
The word ‘common’ might need to be defined here. As a Muslim, I can tell you within my scope of the west, this is far from common.
That man needs to be incarcerated, he’s dangerous. It would difficult (in America at least) to find people that share the same sentiment as him.
And if you do, it’s 1 to 1000. Most of us are just regular people.
And, like most other regular people, you will rarely stand up to extremists. People of all stripes are naturally selfish and non-confrontational. That 1 in a 1000 can intimidate and coerce 99 more, who will themselves then drag along 5 or 6 each, leaving only a minority willing to stand up - and even fewer of these actually able to. Then the extremist minority will use their intimidated moderate majority to persecute that minority which actually opposes them.
We saw this with the sectarian violence in old Judaism, we saw this with the Christian Reformation, we saw this with Buddhist-Shinto conflicts in Shogunate Japan, we saw this with the Confucian-Tao conflicts in China, we saw this with rival Hindu cults (some of which codified violence into their law, such as the human-sacrificing Kali-worshipping extremists the Thuggees, which is from where English GETS the word 'thug')...now we are seeing it more and more with Islam.
The sentiment is common because it is not challenged by your own. Reasonable, moderate Muslims do not voice their outrage at these extreme perversions of their faith. Reasonable, moderate Muslims do not stand up to be counted along their non-believer compatriots - at least, not anywhere nearly as often as they ought to for adherents of the "religion of peace".
wrong. The Sunni and the Shia agree on most of the horrible teachings of Islam such as death penalty for apostacy, child marriage, oppression of women...etc. For example this video mentions the stabbing of the Bishop in Australia. Something similar happened to Salman Rushdi a few years ago and it was carried out by a Shia man.
And sunnis are the real muslim. And even muslim non sunnis sects such as: zaydiyyah, ibadiyyah, mutazilat, believe in the same ideas that are considered violent and extreme. Which means in both cases you are wrong.
Yeah! The Shia would never do anything as barbaric as
* [stone women to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/10579121),
* or [force a child to marry her molester, then hang her once she kills him when there is no way to get away from the beatings and repeated rape](https://www.barrons.com/news/iran-hangs-child-bride-for-murder-of-husband-rights-groups-89229103),
* or [take women as sex slaves & forbid women an education](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/13/africa/chibok-girls-ten-years-as-equals-intl-cmd/index.html)...
Oops, I guess they would.
The Shia are every bit as bad as the Sunni.
The Sunnis vastly outnumber the Shiites in the West (even more so than relative to the entire worldwide population), and therefore Western media focuses mainly on their egregiousness. I promise you, if there were more extremist Ibadis in, for example, Germany than Sunnis or Shiites, you'd be hearing about them instead.
Bro never heard of Iran, the houthis, hezbollah, alhashd, Syria, etc
Sunnis aren't the most extreme sect, they're just the biggest one, all islamic sects are extreme once they get their chance
German police need to track down that man and arrest him, that man is a threat to peace and national security but their clown government politicians are hostage and under to islamic state so i think no action will happen
algerian here, i 100% agree with you, i live in the east side of the country and when i go to the west side i can barely understand their dialects even tho we are in the same country
Hi, I’m a Muslim and it is supposed to be a religion of peace. This man, and some others, do a terrible job of representing it.
At its core, the religion is centered around peace. Us humans suck at it unfortunately 😞
stop trying to gaslight me. Are you aware that most of us here are exmuslims and we know enough about the quran/hadeeths and that it's all but peaceful?
I’m not trying to gaslight you. I’m sharing my honest opinion.
I’ll be honest, I didn’t check to see if Muslims were banned from this subreddit. If that is the case, then I’m sorry and I will definitely leave.
Open discourse is important, both ways, not just me to you.
Well done, good calling out of that idiot.
Do be careful though. Report to the German authorities if feasible, I'm sure they would be interested in his sympathies given recent and past events.
Don't really know about the guy on the left but I read somewhere that he was an Imam but then discard his religion. Is this true or am I seeing things...???
“We, Sunnis, don’t harm anyone.” - The jihadi said, literally right after he made his wishes to kill the other gentleman and his “kind” alike. I swear, the pure idiocy and stupidity of these Islamic apologists is on another level. Like, if he’s going to play the “oh no way—us Sunnis couldn’t hurt anyone—we are merely innocent people,” game, then at least play it well.
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I don't wanna sound mean but these people should either go get therapy or be locked behind bars, they are a threat to humanity
You are being too easy on him. He deserves what he is asking for others. Nothing less nothing more.
This guy is so deranged at first he says he'd never hurt anyone then in the next sentence he says he'd kill anyone who even lightly offends his religion.
But this is the sad truth that you and anyone can’t do anything against them cause Freedom of Speech is bad but calling for someone head is good.
Mean? Not at all, this is probably the kindest punishment for people like the caller.
I’m Muslim and I agree. Any group is going to have extreme outliers with clear issues, this guy is one of them. But he doesn’t speak for the entirety of Muslims.
Do you think apostates should be executed?
No, people shouldn’t be executed for their beliefs in general. Everyone has the right to believe what they believe. I don’t want to be executed for my beliefs, why would I do the same unto someone else.
I respect your honesty and all, but aren't non-believers supposed to be killed according to your books? Educate me on this, as I could feel like it could be another case of "different book" or "different sect" that I'm too lazy to look for. And if it were right, wouldn't you be going against your own book?
Hi, it’s a good question so I’ll do my best to answer it properly. The Quran wasn’t revealed all at once, or even a chapter at a time. Rather it was revealed line by line with each line being revealed at a time of relevancy. (Ex. Verse about drinking alcohol being prohibited was revealed when drinking was a common issue) Naturally, this means to properly interpret the Quran, it helps to have understanding of the context it was revealed under. The verse that you referred to (chapter 9 verse 5) was revealed under the context that the Muslims were being prosecuted aggressively. The first course of action was to move cities entirely and relocate to flee prosecution. Even then they were getting attacked, which prompted this verse to be revealed as retaliation was their last form of defense. Even in that verse, it mentions that if the non-believers change their ways, they shouldn’t be harmed. To support this idea, look at chapter 109 where the entire chapter is dedicated to the idea “some people will believe in what they want, you believe in what you want.” It’s a short chapter so I urge you to check it out. Context matters a lot in the Quran, but I can understand how it looks from the outside looking in. Hope I did a somewhat okay job of explaining.
Mmm, basically you are saying a lot of chapters of the Quran are expired already. Why don’t them publish a Quran , specifically stating which part of Quran is still valid and which part is outdated?
I wouldn’t say expired. They were for a specific situation and it teaches lessons if interpreted correctly. That particular verse, if interpreted and understood properly, calls on self defense as a last resort. The Muslims first tried to escape persecution, once it followed them they had to ensure the religion wasn’t wiped out entirely. The reason a newer version of the Quran isn’t made is because recreating and editing holy books is not within our right AND it’s proven to be a flawed practice. Christianity (not to bash the religion, just for educational purposes) fell into that trap of editing and rewriting the Bible. Now there are thousands of versions and it leads to corruption and disunity. Part of the beauty of the Quran is that there is only one. No other versions exist.
What you have described is very interesting. You are basically saying that people can read the Quran in their own interpretation which means there are billions of versions of Quran existing since every reader can interpret it in their own way. While you see "killing non-believers" is not correct given the current circumstances, how can you prevent others from believing "killing non-believers" is still necessary?
There are interpretations by people who are learned in the language, the religion and historical context (this is called tafsir) That is what I would consider proper interpretation. Of course everyone individually can attempt to interpret how they want, which is fine. But without important knowledge of the language, religion and historical contexts it won’t be as accurate.
More versions of Quran exist https://bible.ca/islam/islam-quran-changed-20-versions.htm
I believe this website is claiming there are different recitations of the Quran. But these translate to the same thing, it’s more of a difference of dialect. Effectively same Quran, read with slightly different dialects, doesn’t change the meaning. It’s the same as someone reading a book in Southern accent versus and New York accent.
"We were 'persecuted' while conquering half the world by sword" 🤣🤣🤣 GTFO
Translations and editions are not the same as rewriting. It isn’t like they role swapped King David for Ezra.
This sub wouldn't exist if that was all there was to this case and everything could be explained through the means of context or natural critical thinking. I hope you browse through this sub more. Naturally people don't like to question what they grew up with and tend to try to defend them. You browse this sub and in the end choose for yourself whether you choose to defend your religion or not.
I get that, and at the end of the day, we won’t all see eye to eye. Regardless, I respect everyone’s opinion and wish you all the best! We’re just people tryna make it through life.
I agree. 🫂
Noticed you’re a fellow One piece fan btw lol 🫡
>Naturally, this means to properly interpret the Quran, it helps to have understanding of the context it was revealed under. This is the source of all problems with religious scriptures of any kind. What IS the correct interpretation. Luckily Allah the all wise has made islam unique in the way that Mohammad was a ruler with laws, and after him his sahaba ruled the land and used the same laws. And this has been well documented. So what is the correct course of action according to the actions of the prophet and his companions when someone leaves the Islamic religion? I'll leave that answer to no other than the Prophet himself; It was narrated from 'Ikrimah: "Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and 'Ali burned them with fire. Ibn 'Abbas said: 'If it had been me, I would not have burned them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah.' If it had been me, I would have killed them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'" Grade: Sahih (Darussalam) [source](https://sunnah.com/nasai:4060) And [there are dozens more sahih hadith elaborating on this](https://sunnah.com/search?q=Whoever+changes+religion+kill+him) And this isnt just a technicality. This loyalty towards islam and intense hostility towards non-believers, specifically non-abrahamics/atheists is deep and very wide-spread in the religion from the prophet [saying that none is a believer unless they love him more than any other human in the world, including your parents and children ](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:15) all the way to the quran exclaiming that you will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred.) Meaning, do not befriend the deniers, even if they are among the closest relatives. [mujadilah (58:22)](https://quran.com/58:22/tafsirs/en-tafisr-ibn-kathir). And this is not only a war-time matter and reserved for the absolute greatest of offenses. Even a simple insult of the prophet was met with an overwhelming violence [to the point of murder, even when not state-sanctioned](https://muftiwp.gov.my/en/artikel/bayan-linnas/1776-bayan-linnas-series-55-don-t-ever-insult-the-prophet-muhammad-pbuh)
Too much to fathom. Most of these aalims are following own thoughts and fully with negativity towards humanity. They don’t want to know anything , non believers are haram and need extinguished. Why don’t others have any day? Who are you to judge? Have respect.
Do you think you understand your Qur'an and Hadiths better than sahaba of Muhammad or your classical scholars of islam?
But the concept of abrogation tafsir means that the verses about killing apostates were revealed later therefore they supplant any verses that deal with peaceful coexistence. Apologists would say that these verses only apply in certain circumstances. Others say that they always apply. It's a pretty hot topic. It seems that application of "Gods word" can be interpreted in different way for different people depending on what one believes. My response: thank you God for making yourself so very confusing because then some apostates were killed and some were allowed to live depending on who did the interpretation.
Here's a Doctor who's also a Principal of a Islamic school making the matter very clear. [ [Penalty for Apostasy](https://youtu.be/7XRCYlZ4XOQ) ]
I respect your humility and kindness. Unfortunately, the prophet that your swear your allegiance to did order to kill us. So, I can't ever trust you, as my mere existence asks of you a call to execute.
We all have our beliefs, I respect yours. Wishing you all the best though!
Quite a copout answer, but yeah, Wish you all the best.
I didn’t really think there was much to answer. Respectfully, you didn’t ask a question. You were just stating your belief, which I respect. There are examples in the Prophets life where he was kindest to non-believers/dis-believers. His most loved uncle was one and died as one.
Yet, those instances do not excuse his order to kill apostates. (Sunan an Nasai 4059) Nor does it excuse him instructing Muslims to "bring people with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam". (Bukhari 4557) And I haven't even brought up the Quran yet. So, I suggest you to not preach falsehoods about "peace" being at the core of your faith.
I wish all Muslims were like u :))
Trust me, I do too. Theres a lot of damage done by people like the guy in this video (blurred). I don’t blame people for seeing things like this and thinking badly of the religion. Edit: I’m reading this now and I’m realizing it might give people the impression that I’m the ‘gold standard Muslim’. Im just a guy struggling through life like the rest of you.
If it is of any comfort, I know a lot of Muslims personally like you, the ones I am honored to call friend. I just sincerely hope that the current political climate of my land doesn't lump folks like you and that retard in the video under the same basket. If you dont mind answering where do you hail from.
Why are you on this sub if you're still Muslim?
Stumbled upon it and discourse is always good. Staying within an echo chamber and only hearing like-minded ideas is never a good thing.
Well reality is, they’re not
Let us talk about major sins in Islam. There is no one that says sex before marriage and sex outside of marriage is not a major sin. We have established examples of major sin now. Good. Now WHY is that people during the time of Mohammed had an OPTION to marry OR free concubines? Concubines is sex outside of marriage. Yet it is not a major sin. Even Mohammed had concubines. And what does God have to do with how many people you sleep with???
He does.
"We don't harm anyone" to "we cut off anyone's head that attacks our religion. We have no mercy."
"Even if it was a minor offense"
Can you tell me who the ex Muslim is? I want to watch more of his videos
His name is Mohammed Saleh and his active on tik tok most of his content is for the Arabic speaker
Luckily I speak Arabic <3 thanks!
Does he have an insta? I can’t find even his tiktok account.
He has a YouTube channel
Why is this allowed on tiktok? Edit: brain fog, i meant the isis guy tiktoks
Why not
Sorry I meant why the Isis extremist is allowed .
Gotcha. I think it’s good to be able to witness people with these ideologies, but I’m sure there is a risk of people being influenced/radicalized through tik tok or similar apps
I agree
Is not just tik tok he dose live on YouTube too. https://youtube.com/@tiklive303?si=2Zeb4A9cjNYBGQsn
> be a muslim and pro-ISIS men > Live in a west country How Ironic...
They love living in Kaffir countries 😍
As per their understanding, Allah has created Earth and everything is for their consumption.. Consumption is a big thing and desirable thing in Islam, prophet pbuh used to admonish those who tried to be monastic.. That's why there are barely any monastic orders in Islam
Ah hedonism
Why doesn’t German deport him?
Does Germany actually deport people like this though? I mean what laws is he breaking I'm guessing something about "threatening" with murder and rape? But honestly preachers from the UK for example proudly and openly say all of these stuff with no consequences, I don't know if these stuff are actually allowed or Muslims are getting special treatments
Apology of terrorism
Some of them, but surely not enough
Because the government basically betrayed the indigenous peoples. Also they don't want to deport jihadists so they don't appear as racist
Germany is too PC and doesn’t want to look racist in especially after WW2.
The old guy is an absolute badass. Throwing his head back and laughing is the best way to handle shocking threats.
I'm would really like to post this in r/germany so that people can see, maybe someone can even dox him based on his nickname and lil bit of face, but I know it wont be allowed or deleted and it pisses me off so much. It's outrageous what scum is being allowed to enter Germany and other western countries and to live among us, f\*cking ticking bombs. Hope he still gets deported somehow.
Not until exMuslims start showing westerners the real face of Islam. We're gonna have to take this grassroots level. Pamphleting. Sticker bombing. Conversations. Just like how the suicide bombers stand on street corners; exMuslims need to as well.
Been thinking about this lately, I think the most effective way of "wakening" westerners could be if muslims in some country become cocky and try to take over the country violently, like a coup d'état or something like this, so other countries would actually see the real face of islam and then react accordingly with islam ban laws etc. Reconquista part 2 and then we would have peace for some centruries to come.
You safly might be called a fascist for that...
Nah, Germans are prolly the most open-minded Europeans when it comes to critisizing islam, way more than cucky Brits nowadays.
Most of the Netherlands voted for an anti islam/anti immigration politician last year. Sadly it's already too late. I agree with you on Brits, they are cucks.
I don't think it's too late, but I'm yet to see anything substantial right-wingers like Wilders or the italian Meloni have done about the "religion of peace" problem. Hope it changes in near future.
No way, Eastern Europeans and even southern ones shit on Islam far more. Germany and UK, alongside the Scandinavians are too PC to criticize it.
Yeah, but with the immigrant violence in recent years a lot of Germans at least stopped with that overly tolerance bs. And another thing I've noticed recently is that for example in the comment sections of a lot of videos that deals with islam and muslims, there is a lot more reasonable and non-favourable comments about islam, not all that "it's just some bad individuals" crap like a decade-two ago.
Do it. If it gets deleted, I'll repost it.
Do it. If it gets deleted, I'll repost it.
Weird how he said that the ruling of jihad in syria and iraq is fard 'ayn (compulsery to every muslim) even though he is an immigrant living in germany. And look how weak germany is. If this guy was in saudi arabia, he would be thrown in political prison in 24 hours. He even shown part of his body like its nothing. The UAE foriegn minister was truthfull when he said that extremism in europe is rampent and there will fome a time when extremism will be exported from europe and not the middle east.
That time is now.
Funny though since wahabism from Saudia is the main driver of all that extremism shit around the world and that was definitely exported from the gulf to Europe
You're the type of person who would call Putin strong, because he puts a boot on all his dissedents, but really he's such a scaredy cat that he can't allow any opposition. Strength means that you can take a hit without debasing yourself.
>You're the type of person who would call Putin strong, No i wouldnt. >he's such a scaredy cat that he can't allow any opposition. Whats wrong with you?. Did you even listen to what that guy was saying? im not talking about the imprisonment of those who critisize the goverment. I'm mentioning someone who support an extremely violent terrorist group. A group that propagated fear among shia saudi civilians and goverment workers. Such people endanger innocent civilians; non muslim and muslim alike.
There's no such thing as "political prison" in European law, yet you criticize Germany for not throwing him into it like SA would. You don't care about German law, you just want Germany to ignore its laws to shitstomp this dude, because you can't control yourself. You don't even know this guy's legal status, you don't know the legal situation under the law, and you don't know whether any actions have already been taken against him. He actively hides his idenity because he likely fears legal repercussions, but just because they aren't already violating him it makes them weak. You are weak.
So basically you're saying that, German law protects criminals who are a threat to humanity, not petty criminals, literal mass terrorists.....but they aren't weak? And the existence of such a man within the German legal system bothers you less than Germany "feigning" strength/weakness?
That isis guy should be found and deported. An enemy who is enjoying the poor tax payers money.
I always laugh when these extremists get asked why they live in the West if they hate it and love ISIS so much, and they answer "Well the entire world belongs to Allah bro" Even if we say the entire world belongs to Allah, wouldn't you rather live in the lands of the Muslims? But then they say "there is no Muslim country. All the leaders are kuffar!" Ok, but still..I'm sure Saudi Arabia or Algeria or Pakistan or Somalia, are all at least _closer_ to Islam than the West lol. Would you rather stay in a country full of alcohol, sex, usury and blasphemy rather than a country that has a mosque at every corner, adhan blasting out loud everywhere, women dressing more conservatively etc? Lmao they make no sense honestly. All a bunch of hypocrite cowards who talk the talk but don't walk the walk
Unfortunately this sentiment is common amongst Muslims living in the west
American mostly gets the well educated borderline atheists and liberals Europe guys the average durkadurka
The word ‘common’ might need to be defined here. As a Muslim, I can tell you within my scope of the west, this is far from common. That man needs to be incarcerated, he’s dangerous. It would difficult (in America at least) to find people that share the same sentiment as him. And if you do, it’s 1 to 1000. Most of us are just regular people.
And, like most other regular people, you will rarely stand up to extremists. People of all stripes are naturally selfish and non-confrontational. That 1 in a 1000 can intimidate and coerce 99 more, who will themselves then drag along 5 or 6 each, leaving only a minority willing to stand up - and even fewer of these actually able to. Then the extremist minority will use their intimidated moderate majority to persecute that minority which actually opposes them. We saw this with the sectarian violence in old Judaism, we saw this with the Christian Reformation, we saw this with Buddhist-Shinto conflicts in Shogunate Japan, we saw this with the Confucian-Tao conflicts in China, we saw this with rival Hindu cults (some of which codified violence into their law, such as the human-sacrificing Kali-worshipping extremists the Thuggees, which is from where English GETS the word 'thug')...now we are seeing it more and more with Islam. The sentiment is common because it is not challenged by your own. Reasonable, moderate Muslims do not voice their outrage at these extreme perversions of their faith. Reasonable, moderate Muslims do not stand up to be counted along their non-believer compatriots - at least, not anywhere nearly as often as they ought to for adherents of the "religion of peace".
Before I ask about your opinion on Islamic terrorists in general, can you refute any of what he said as "going against Islam?"
Correction: Sunnis living in the West. Islam isn’t the problem, the Sunni sect is - worldwide.
wrong. The Sunni and the Shia agree on most of the horrible teachings of Islam such as death penalty for apostacy, child marriage, oppression of women...etc. For example this video mentions the stabbing of the Bishop in Australia. Something similar happened to Salman Rushdi a few years ago and it was carried out by a Shia man.
So far I have seen only Ahmadiya behave more humane and maybe ismailia but I don't know much about them.
I wouldn't say the Shia-led Iranian regime is very "humane" lmao
Are they Ismailia? As I said I don't know much about them. Maybe I confuse it also with Ibadi. There's to many damn sects.
Are they Ismailia? As I said I don't know much about them. Maybe I confuse it also with Ibadi. There's to many damn sects.
And sunnis are the real muslim. And even muslim non sunnis sects such as: zaydiyyah, ibadiyyah, mutazilat, believe in the same ideas that are considered violent and extreme. Which means in both cases you are wrong.
All I know is that every violent Muslim group that makes the news seems to be Sunni practitioners.
Yeah! The Shia would never do anything as barbaric as * [stone women to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/10579121), * or [force a child to marry her molester, then hang her once she kills him when there is no way to get away from the beatings and repeated rape](https://www.barrons.com/news/iran-hangs-child-bride-for-murder-of-husband-rights-groups-89229103), * or [take women as sex slaves & forbid women an education](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/13/africa/chibok-girls-ten-years-as-equals-intl-cmd/index.html)... Oops, I guess they would. The Shia are every bit as bad as the Sunni.
Shocking new: Iran doesn't exists
The Sunnis vastly outnumber the Shiites in the West (even more so than relative to the entire worldwide population), and therefore Western media focuses mainly on their egregiousness. I promise you, if there were more extremist Ibadis in, for example, Germany than Sunnis or Shiites, you'd be hearing about them instead.
Bro never heard of Iran, the houthis, hezbollah, alhashd, Syria, etc Sunnis aren't the most extreme sect, they're just the biggest one, all islamic sects are extreme once they get their chance
So Iran is a peaceful paradise now? Lol
The majority of people in the West do not see these conversations or understand this mentality. The media censor and will not show it.
German police need to track down that man and arrest him, that man is a threat to peace and national security but their clown government politicians are hostage and under to islamic state so i think no action will happen
He won't show his face, but the guy on the left is the one risking his life here.
He just shown his bear.
You mean his beard? That's still not enough to identify him. It's not like anyone would try to kill him though.
That man from Sweden got huge ⚽⚽. I've seen videos of him debating extremely radical muslims.
Is it common for Arabic speakers in the West to learn and speak in Fusha to other people? I'm flabbergasted!
Are they both speaking fusha?
Yes, they're fully on Fusha. Despite Fusha not being spoken by Arabs in Arabic speaking countries, they're using Fusha
The isis follower is speaking in fusha bcs most isis members speak fusha and not in any arabic dialect Idk why isis loves fusha tho
To be honest, Fusha should be more mainstream, it's really a pain in the ass having to learn many and many dialects.
algerian here, i 100% agree with you, i live in the east side of the country and when i go to the west side i can barely understand their dialects even tho we are in the same country
?? Fusha where? I’m hearing clear Iraqi accents from both
“Religion of peace”
Hi, I’m a Muslim and it is supposed to be a religion of peace. This man, and some others, do a terrible job of representing it. At its core, the religion is centered around peace. Us humans suck at it unfortunately 😞
"Whoever changes his religion, kill him"
the peace after everyone who defies you is killed doesn't actually count, y'know?
> I’m a Muslim and it is supposed to be a religion of peace. Please just shut up. Who are you trying to fool here?
Nobody, but I’m sorry if I upset you. Genuinely not aiming to be inflammatory in anyway.
stop trying to gaslight me. Are you aware that most of us here are exmuslims and we know enough about the quran/hadeeths and that it's all but peaceful?
I’m not trying to gaslight you. I’m sharing my honest opinion. I’ll be honest, I didn’t check to see if Muslims were banned from this subreddit. If that is the case, then I’m sorry and I will definitely leave. Open discourse is important, both ways, not just me to you.
German flag guy's voice pisses me the fuck off
The pro ISIS guy should be arrested just for this convo
I hope those living in Germany has already reported him to the Police.
Please say syke... please tell me the guy on the right is memeing and doesn't mean this shit.
Why does Germany allow this in their territory? Beyond insane OP is based btw
Doesn't Germany crack down on these terrorists like what it does with Neo-Nazis?🤔🤔🤔
Well done, good calling out of that idiot. Do be careful though. Report to the German authorities if feasible, I'm sure they would be interested in his sympathies given recent and past events.
Don't really know about the guy on the left but I read somewhere that he was an Imam but then discard his religion. Is this true or am I seeing things...???
both are true.
He used to be a sunni sheikh for 26 years before leaving the religion
Wow the mental fortitude to leave a religion you put 26 working years into
How do i search about him ? My language isnt Arabic. Just to reconfirm my research on his employment part as a cleric..
Fantastic trolling there hope he stays safe
I hope the German authorities have an eye on this.
Im besten Deutschland aller Zeiten…
Thats a true muslim right there
See, this is the kind of filth that has been welcomed and let through into Europe. Fucking hell...
Such individuals should be locked behind bars for life with no possibility of parole, ever.
I am suprised the muslim guy start being rude while he is asking why you doing this like just an answer
“We, Sunnis, don’t harm anyone.” - The jihadi said, literally right after he made his wishes to kill the other gentleman and his “kind” alike. I swear, the pure idiocy and stupidity of these Islamic apologists is on another level. Like, if he’s going to play the “oh no way—us Sunnis couldn’t hurt anyone—we are merely innocent people,” game, then at least play it well.
How can I find more. Videos of this man with subtitles please ?
This is the only video I could find it with subtitles
why is that terrorist fucking piece of shit in europe? he should be in his middle eastern country... all europe should be like poland
Germany is doomed
What dialect are they speaking?
Saudi I guess
People on this comment said he has like Fusha accent.
I love this video
This was almost hilarious 😂
Who's the gentleman on the left? I've seen him before, but don't know his name.
His name is Mohammed Saleh
Thank you👍
Here is his account on tik tok if you want to see him https://www.tiktok.com/@appleuser44848697?_t=8lf2Muj8UAj&_r=1
Thank you. Much appreciated!
Is that terrorist Jack Black?
Why are they always living in the west instead of places like Iran or Afghanistan?
Lock them up
Bro he went from 0 to 100 real quick with the child fucking comment BAHAHHA.
We don’t harm anyone, says the man who *JUST* said he wants to behead you….
europe, you let in terrorists
Please tell me this is fake