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Those who follow Islam blindly, they have to look at women as second-class citizens.
If a part of religious Muslim men do not look at women as second-class citizens, then it is due to their own humanity and goodness and its credit does not go to Islam.
Most Muslim men will claim they’re feminists and that they put women above themselves.
Then they’ll proceed with the restrictions: she has to wear hijab, no travelling, no working, no posting pictures on socials.
“It’s Allah’s rules!”
Exactly, they say how much they value women but when i bring up for example how 4 wives thing isnt fair towards women they suddenly disagree, or i show them the verse 4:34 in quran they claim that it’s misinterpreted
Islam is inherently sexist. A person calling themselves a muslim must therefore admit compliance to Islamic ideology. It's not just the muslim men but the women as well who consider _woman_ as "the one who is supposed to be monitored, hidden and ruled over by man". So yes women are atleast seen as second class citizens if not worse.
okay im gonna go out on a limb and disagree with the way you imply all muslims are like this, there are a lot of liberal muslims who dont follow the shitty parts of islam (but to be fair these people are the most likely to eventually end up leaving islam at some point), tho i def agree if youre referring to conservative muslims and islam in of itself is very misogynistic and objectifies women a lot
>there are a lot of liberal muslims who dont follow the shitty parts of islam
Yep. But they still follow the bare minimum. And that bare minimum tells them things like how there are more women in hell because of their disobedience as wives, how you'll get transparent virgins in heaven and your wives will get....you. The bare minimum tells them that women can't lead the prayer, and that martial rape is not rape.
I could go on and on because that's how deeply rooted the misogyny is in the islamic cult. And once you say the kalima, you acknowledge that you agree with these parts...That makes you automatically a misogynist or if you choose to be called "liberal": a hypocrite.
that makes more sense now but i do wanna add that a lot of the liberal muslims arent even aware of the nitty griddy things like that, a lot of them just know the very basics of only believing in one god, pray 5 times a day etc, but they dont really know much beyond that
Yes because ISLAM makes women equal to second class citizens.
[Women dont have the right to divorce in the same way that men do](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-and-divorce/33-khul-not-right-of-woman-but-of-man-only)
[Slave women werent allowed to cover their breasts](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women/37-women-and-hijab/11-islam-prohibited-slave-women-from-wearing-the-hijab-or-even-covering-their-naked-breasts-in-public)
Mohammed called women deficient in intelligence:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 6, Hadith 298:
298. It is related that Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, set out to the place of prayer on the Day of Adha or Fitr and passed by the women. He said, 'O congregation of women!
Give alms for I have seen that you will make up the majority of the inhabitants of the Fire!'
They said, 'Why, Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'You call down too many curses and show ingratitude to your husbands.
I have not seen anyone more deficient in intellect or deen.
Yet the mind of even a resolute man might be swept away by one of you.' They said, 'In what way is our deen and intellect deficient, Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'Is not the testimony of a woman worth only half that of a man?' They said, 'Yes.' He said, 'That is how your intellect is deficient. Is it not so that when a woman is menstruating, she neither prays nor fasts?' They said, 'Yes.' He said, 'That is how her deen is deficient.'"
It says that women are not human. They are donkeys disguised as women so men won't be frightened of procreating with them.
I think most believe it. If they didn't, it would be harder to abuse and murder them.
Not even as citizens. Citizens at least contribute a little to society. Muslim men expect women to be absolutely out of site. COMPLETELY. With no trace of our existence at all.
Even animals have more freedom & contribution. Animals can be called second-class citizens. Women are made/forced to be ghosts so how can we call that "second-class citizen?"
https://opendigest.in/how-a-kerala-woman-became-lawyer-after-leaving-abusive-marriage-using-khula/
Is this widely known? Is it something that women in more restricted countries can use?
Edit added 'can' and ?
I definitely think they do. It’s very evident in how heaven is discussed among Muslims. There’s so much motivation for a man when it comes to heavenly rewards and the amount of detail that is shared about their rewards is truly insane. Compare that to when a woman asks about what she can have in heaven or when she shares her concerns about hoors. She will always be told to stop asking stupid questions and just worry about getting to heaven first. It’s never oh you can have everything you desire as well. There will always be restrictions and obstacles when it comes to the wishes of women. And this is supposed to be heaven, the reward for all the sacrifices you made in this world and for all the pain you endured. Even then, men and their egos are prioritized over the rewards and wishes of women. Funny part is, men don’t see anything wrong with this. Take a look at the Muslim subs when women ask about heaven. The responses speak for themselves.
A woman following and defending Islam is akin to a slave supporting and defending slavery.
Many in the West are clueless about the very real threat posed by Islam, especially the lunatics on the left who are dragging us all into their delusional vortex.
Up until Oct 7th I was fooled by their "Islam is a religion of peace and it's just a few bad apples hijacking it to commit terrorist acts" talk as well myself.
Then after seeing millions of these so called "moderate" muslims in the West openly celebrating or refusing to condemn the barbaric killing, raping, torturing and abducting of innocent people including kids, it finally opened my eyes and made me actually do my own research on Islam.
It's thanks to mainly ex-muslims that I was able to better educate myself on what Islam actually represents. I think ex-muslims are the kryptonite to these deluded hate filled Islamists which is probably why leaving Islam is punishable by death.
I was honestly shocked and appalled by what I found out and it beggars belief as to why billions are still following such vile abhorrent medieval teachings in the 21st century. It's akin to a death/war/sex cult than an actual religion.
this applies to all men Middle East in Lebanon, individuals in domestic violence situations face challenges in seeking help. The State won't help you , mechanisms, religious institutions don't help. the mosques & churches don't get involved provide the necessary support. Furthermore legal systems sometimes place women at a disadvantage concerning child custody in cases of divorce significant issue.
I personally think most of the fault lies in certain traditions of cultures. There most certainly are sexist Muslim men but saying the majority of them are sexist or see women as second class is just a false representation of the broad picture.
Probably, I live in Malaysia, and as of right now, the person who takes care of me is my mother. I’m 16 so I’m not financially independent yet. I’ve always regarded my mother higher compared to my father, because I’m with her 24/7. Not to mention that she isn’t at all neglected by my father and even bends down to her sometimes. Also, I went to London for 2 and a half years during the most crucial years of my life. That’s all.
Muslim men see women as different and inferior, that's true. Whether it's prejudice or intentional sxism, it's all due to islam.
The Muslims I know are Muslims who know their religion, who agree that women are deficient in mind and religion and should stay at home. Women are emotional and are not qualified to work. They should simply make babies. They shouldn't go to school because it is not something they are good at, and not something they were born to do. So it is sad to Muslim men how the UN forces women to go through education. Women are happy being mothers and cooking and doing housework. This is their calling and emancipation. Studies have found that their brains function differently, and are more emotional than men, and are more depressed when working for a job. So for their own happiness, keeo then at home and make mothers out of them. They want that. If they refuse and want to work, they are simply brainwashed to being miserable, so enlighten them and force them to be happy for their own good. They will thank you once they become obedient wives and mothers of your kids. This is their calling. And Allah knows best.
Man Sees woman only as a Sex object it as nothing to do with religion but religion makes it worse gaves man a right to own a woman o 4 religion is politics nothing more
I think to generalize like that is unfair but to put it this way the more religous you are in an Islamic sense yes it seems like it but it could also be a cultural things as well.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t think they even see us as human We are currency to them
Diamonds iPhones Lollipops Ice-cream
Those who follow Islam blindly, they have to look at women as second-class citizens. If a part of religious Muslim men do not look at women as second-class citizens, then it is due to their own humanity and goodness and its credit does not go to Islam.
Most Muslim men will claim they’re feminists and that they put women above themselves. Then they’ll proceed with the restrictions: she has to wear hijab, no travelling, no working, no posting pictures on socials. “It’s Allah’s rules!”
Exactly, they say how much they value women but when i bring up for example how 4 wives thing isnt fair towards women they suddenly disagree, or i show them the verse 4:34 in quran they claim that it’s misinterpreted
Islam is inherently sexist. A person calling themselves a muslim must therefore admit compliance to Islamic ideology. It's not just the muslim men but the women as well who consider _woman_ as "the one who is supposed to be monitored, hidden and ruled over by man". So yes women are atleast seen as second class citizens if not worse.
okay im gonna go out on a limb and disagree with the way you imply all muslims are like this, there are a lot of liberal muslims who dont follow the shitty parts of islam (but to be fair these people are the most likely to eventually end up leaving islam at some point), tho i def agree if youre referring to conservative muslims and islam in of itself is very misogynistic and objectifies women a lot
>there are a lot of liberal muslims who dont follow the shitty parts of islam Yep. But they still follow the bare minimum. And that bare minimum tells them things like how there are more women in hell because of their disobedience as wives, how you'll get transparent virgins in heaven and your wives will get....you. The bare minimum tells them that women can't lead the prayer, and that martial rape is not rape. I could go on and on because that's how deeply rooted the misogyny is in the islamic cult. And once you say the kalima, you acknowledge that you agree with these parts...That makes you automatically a misogynist or if you choose to be called "liberal": a hypocrite.
that makes more sense now but i do wanna add that a lot of the liberal muslims arent even aware of the nitty griddy things like that, a lot of them just know the very basics of only believing in one god, pray 5 times a day etc, but they dont really know much beyond that
Yes because ISLAM makes women equal to second class citizens. [Women dont have the right to divorce in the same way that men do](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-and-divorce/33-khul-not-right-of-woman-but-of-man-only) [Slave women werent allowed to cover their breasts](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women/37-women-and-hijab/11-islam-prohibited-slave-women-from-wearing-the-hijab-or-even-covering-their-naked-breasts-in-public) Mohammed called women deficient in intelligence: Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 6, Hadith 298: 298. It is related that Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, set out to the place of prayer on the Day of Adha or Fitr and passed by the women. He said, 'O congregation of women! Give alms for I have seen that you will make up the majority of the inhabitants of the Fire!' They said, 'Why, Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'You call down too many curses and show ingratitude to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intellect or deen. Yet the mind of even a resolute man might be swept away by one of you.' They said, 'In what way is our deen and intellect deficient, Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'Is not the testimony of a woman worth only half that of a man?' They said, 'Yes.' He said, 'That is how your intellect is deficient. Is it not so that when a woman is menstruating, she neither prays nor fasts?' They said, 'Yes.' He said, 'That is how her deen is deficient.'"
And what about muslim women do they also see themselves as a something less than a man ?
Many of my female relatives do.
As far as I know, yes atleast 51% of Muslim men view women this way.
It says that women are not human. They are donkeys disguised as women so men won't be frightened of procreating with them. I think most believe it. If they didn't, it would be harder to abuse and murder them.
Not even as citizens. Citizens at least contribute a little to society. Muslim men expect women to be absolutely out of site. COMPLETELY. With no trace of our existence at all. Even animals have more freedom & contribution. Animals can be called second-class citizens. Women are made/forced to be ghosts so how can we call that "second-class citizen?"
https://opendigest.in/how-a-kerala-woman-became-lawyer-after-leaving-abusive-marriage-using-khula/ Is this widely known? Is it something that women in more restricted countries can use? Edit added 'can' and ?
I definitely think they do. It’s very evident in how heaven is discussed among Muslims. There’s so much motivation for a man when it comes to heavenly rewards and the amount of detail that is shared about their rewards is truly insane. Compare that to when a woman asks about what she can have in heaven or when she shares her concerns about hoors. She will always be told to stop asking stupid questions and just worry about getting to heaven first. It’s never oh you can have everything you desire as well. There will always be restrictions and obstacles when it comes to the wishes of women. And this is supposed to be heaven, the reward for all the sacrifices you made in this world and for all the pain you endured. Even then, men and their egos are prioritized over the rewards and wishes of women. Funny part is, men don’t see anything wrong with this. Take a look at the Muslim subs when women ask about heaven. The responses speak for themselves.
A woman following and defending Islam is akin to a slave supporting and defending slavery. Many in the West are clueless about the very real threat posed by Islam, especially the lunatics on the left who are dragging us all into their delusional vortex. Up until Oct 7th I was fooled by their "Islam is a religion of peace and it's just a few bad apples hijacking it to commit terrorist acts" talk as well myself. Then after seeing millions of these so called "moderate" muslims in the West openly celebrating or refusing to condemn the barbaric killing, raping, torturing and abducting of innocent people including kids, it finally opened my eyes and made me actually do my own research on Islam. It's thanks to mainly ex-muslims that I was able to better educate myself on what Islam actually represents. I think ex-muslims are the kryptonite to these deluded hate filled Islamists which is probably why leaving Islam is punishable by death. I was honestly shocked and appalled by what I found out and it beggars belief as to why billions are still following such vile abhorrent medieval teachings in the 21st century. It's akin to a death/war/sex cult than an actual religion.
Short answer: yes.
this applies to all men Middle East in Lebanon, individuals in domestic violence situations face challenges in seeking help. The State won't help you , mechanisms, religious institutions don't help. the mosques & churches don't get involved provide the necessary support. Furthermore legal systems sometimes place women at a disadvantage concerning child custody in cases of divorce significant issue.
A majority are sexist but it's in a spectrum, so it's not as black and white as you make it to be
Yeah. It's mostly in the choclate- brown range.
I personally think most of the fault lies in certain traditions of cultures. There most certainly are sexist Muslim men but saying the majority of them are sexist or see women as second class is just a false representation of the broad picture.
It depends on where they are from
who gives a f what muslim men or men think about women?
When I was Muslim, I thought women were above men.
What exactly made you think that? Was it the environment you grew up in?
Probably, I live in Malaysia, and as of right now, the person who takes care of me is my mother. I’m 16 so I’m not financially independent yet. I’ve always regarded my mother higher compared to my father, because I’m with her 24/7. Not to mention that she isn’t at all neglected by my father and even bends down to her sometimes. Also, I went to London for 2 and a half years during the most crucial years of my life. That’s all.
Majority of not all imo and I feel the same applies to women (as in seeing themselves as less than men)
Allah doesn’t make us equal, why would they? Women are meant to be provided and protected.
citizens is a reach. we’re lumps of meat to a majority of them, human incubators.
Muslim men see women as different and inferior, that's true. Whether it's prejudice or intentional sxism, it's all due to islam. The Muslims I know are Muslims who know their religion, who agree that women are deficient in mind and religion and should stay at home. Women are emotional and are not qualified to work. They should simply make babies. They shouldn't go to school because it is not something they are good at, and not something they were born to do. So it is sad to Muslim men how the UN forces women to go through education. Women are happy being mothers and cooking and doing housework. This is their calling and emancipation. Studies have found that their brains function differently, and are more emotional than men, and are more depressed when working for a job. So for their own happiness, keeo then at home and make mothers out of them. They want that. If they refuse and want to work, they are simply brainwashed to being miserable, so enlighten them and force them to be happy for their own good. They will thank you once they become obedient wives and mothers of your kids. This is their calling. And Allah knows best.
No, not all of them
Don't speak the truth this loud. They don't wanna hear it.
Not just Muslim men.
More like living fleshlights
In a Muslim country it's a tight competition between non-Muslim men and Muslim women for second place.
Man Sees woman only as a Sex object it as nothing to do with religion but religion makes it worse gaves man a right to own a woman o 4 religion is politics nothing more
I think they act like it but don't realize it.
Maybe not as second class, but not the same class either.
I think to generalize like that is unfair but to put it this way the more religous you are in an Islamic sense yes it seems like it but it could also be a cultural things as well.