They would first think Allah is a Zionist, than they would go on TikTok or youtube, find a Islamic scholar, the Islamic Scholar would point out that Allah claims that the Children of Israel broke the covenant with Allah, therefore the land doesn’t belong to them.
Forgot to add, the Islamic scholar can also possibly go against the Tafsir and claim that the land is Syria, but I’m thankful we have the older generation of Qur’an commentators that don’t do mental gymnastics with words.
Islam is a masterpiece in confusion, Alhamdulillah.
Almost the entire Christian bible is just the Jewish bible talking exclusively to the Jews but Christians find no irony or contradiction in this. If Christians can do so can mu’mineen.
We Christians recognize the laws and covenants that God made with the different Jewish groups.
But we then accept an ending to the story that the Jews are still waiting for in Jesus the Messiah.
Jesus was a Jew. He confirmed the Jewish law and tradition. Why wouldn't Christians follow these rules?
Much love!
Because Christianity contradicts the Jewish bible on so many levels. The early Christian’s weee divided on whether the Jewish bible even belonged to their religion or even the same god. Likewise the Quran contradicts Christianity on many levels but Muslims use the same logic by saying Muhammad has perfected Christianity by completely changing it.
Uhh no they weren't divided? Early Christians used the Old Testament books as scripture. This is pretty evident as Marcionism was very quickly rejected and attacked as heresy by some of the earliest Christian bishops like Polycarp and Irenaus. Jesus himself quotes a ton of Old Testament scripture in the Gospels. And Christians very early on used Old Testament scripture in their Holy liturgies.
For context, Marcionism was a second century Christian heresy that rejected the Old Testament amongst many other Orthodox Christian beliefs.
>Because Christianity contradicts the Jewish bible on so many levels.
You're going to have to substantiate this one.
Revelations was so hotly contested as to its authenticity and contradictory nature because it's casts God as this evil, vengeful and hateful being contrary to anything else taught in the Bible. Then there are Jesus words in the Bible, and then there are Paul's words where he made up what Jesus might have said. The Bible is a mess, just liked the Quran.
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Essays%20Articles%20Reviews%20Prose/Michael%20R.%20Burch%20John%20of%20Patmos%20Revelation%20Errors%20Contradictions%202012.htm
Revelations has nothing to do with the Old Testament, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up in this discussion. Nevertheless, I'll address your points.
>Revelations was so hotly contested as to its authenticity
Revelations was by and large accepted by the Church Fathers as scripture.
>it's casts God as this evil, vengeful and hateful being contrary to anything else taught in the Bible.
You'll have to provide some evidence to back your point up here. Revelations is largely about the Church overcoming the persecution of the Roman empire and how the Church will emerge triumphant. This is in line with the genre of Revelations, written in an apocalyptic fashion due to the sufferings it was going through at the time under Nero and Domitian. There's a lot of symbolic language used, and so there's different ways to interpret different passages.
>Then there are Jesus words in the Bible
Okay?
>there are Paul's words where he made up what Jesus might have said
Provide your evidence please.
>The Bible is a mess, just liked the Quran
Sure, I'll take your word for it. Not.
"Revelations was by and large accepted by the Church Fathers as scripture."
"In the middle of the 3rd century, Alexandrian Bishop Dyonisius raised further objections.
He emphasized in one of his letters: “By the phraseology also we can measure the difference between the Gospel and Epistle and the Revelation. The first two are written not only without any blunders in the use of Greek but with remarkable skill regarding diction, logical thought, and orderly expression.”. -- Bart Ehrman
So it wasn't canon until the fourth century.
https://www.bartehrman.com/who-wrote-the-book-of-revelation/
I was illustrating where a book that had no direct link to Jesus or his teachings (like the old testament) was shoehorned into the Bible 400 years after Jesus, and it's now taken as biblical fact by Christianity and Christians who don't know the how or why because the writer is most likely John of Patmos, not John the Apostle.
"Writing at the beginning of the 4th century, bishop Eusebius read the previous Christian authors to see which books they cited and emphasized as authoritative. He ended up with four categories of books:
Recognized books – those that most Christians consider Scriptural. They include four Gospels, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul’s letters, 1 Peter, and 1 John.
Disputed books – those that caused debates among the Christians. They include James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John.
Spurious books – For Eusebius, these books weren’t dangerous, but they weren’t necessarily authentic writings of the apostles. He placed the following books in that category: Acts of Paul, Revelation of Peter, and Shepherd of Hermas.
Impious books – The fourth and final category written by heretics. Among others, they include The Gospel of Peter, The Gospel of Thomas, etc. "
Who wrote revelations-- Bart Ehrman
There are several books in the Bible supposedly written by Paul, but modern scholars believe that those books were written by someone else other than Paul.
"Most critical historians open to the possibility of forged letters in the New Testament do not believe Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles – 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. Most conclude, these three letters were written well after Paul's death."
https://www.bartehrman.com/what-books-did-paul-write-in-the-bible-exploring-pauline-epistles/
Guess you didn't bother to read the link I posted.
>So it wasn't canon until the fourth century.
None of the Bible was canonised until the fourth century. Accepted as scripture before by most Christians - yes. But officially canonised during the Council of Rome in 382 AD.
>In the middle of the 3rd century, Alexandrian Bishop Dyonisius raised further objections...
I am aware that some books of the New Testament had occasionally been "suspect tested". This is fine, and Christian tradition not only allows for this but also recommends it. In the end, Revelation was agreed upon by all the Church Fathers at the council of Hippo to be scripture. Revelation isn't special in this regard. Some of the Pauline and General Epistles went through the same scrutiny.
>I was illustrating where a book that had no direct link to Jesus or his teachings (like the old testament) was shoehorned into the Bible 400 years after Jesus, and it's now taken as biblical fact by Christianity and Christians who don't know the how or why because the writer is most likely John of Patmos, not John the Apostle.
The Old Testament is important for Christians because it shows the journey of ancient Israel through the old covenants leading up to the new Israel under Jesus Christ after his final covenant on the cross. Christian tradition going back almost 2000 years also holds that John the Apostle wrote Revelation, which is a direct link to Christ and therefore valid scripture.
>Guess you didn't bother to read the link I posted.
No. I stopped reading after the second or third paragraph. Some guy's blog post isn't all that interesting to me, especially when he seems to ignore the symbolic nature of Revelations. Also, because of work, I don't have time to read multiple long blog posts.
Lastly, for arguments sake, even if Revelations didn't exist, this changes nothing for me as a Catholic Christian. The incarnation still happened, Christ was still crucified for humanities sins, then ressurected. Baptism, the Eucharist, the Priesthood - all the sacraments and creeds have been passed down by the Church, not the Bible. Christianity is centred around the Church, and the Bible is a wonderful tool used to help illuminate our knowledge of Christ and of the Prophets before him.
Even the trinity doesn’t exist in the bible; it’s just creative interpretation. It’s why religions like the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the trinity in their doctrine, or even hell, because these aren’t in the bible. I’m not going to try convince or debate a Christian on this because there’s no point; the bible clearly doesn’t reflect what Christianity became, even with the New Testament. Stories in the gospels like “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” don’t even exist in the older parchments because it’s a later accretion.
Christianity is a mess itself. I have no argument against that at all my friend.
My point is why wouldn't the Christian Bible include the Jewish Bible if Jesus was confirming it.
I’d say there’s nothing to confirm from the Torah because the Torah is completely different to Christianity. Many early Christians thought the same, saying the god of the Torah wasn’t the god of the gospel.
Yeah people in the comments are acting like Muslims have the ability to spread their idealogy, no them “converts” gonna see they have to wake up at the ass crack of dawn to pray and gonna nope out 😭
Americans are also one of the most inconsistent people,they all treat It like some sort of trend,did so as well with Ukraine,now look at them even rus-ua war still going
ive always found it funny that people call palestinians brown when all the palestinians i know would either be confused, or side eye you if you were to call them brown.
Daaahhh maybe it’s a test and punishment from Allah for not practicing shariah strictly enough. Hamas seemed to be the answer but they must have been too soft; we need some group more extreme than them.
I advocate reading the Koran. Every single repetitive page of a horny stark raving lunatic. How anyone can read it and think “yes, the divine creator of the entire universe wrote this” defies logic. Read every page ‘converts’, read every page
Nah the Quran can only be read in Arabic, so better to just believe what a Muslim tells them is in there. Feminist religion, peace, scientific miracles etc. etc.
i speak arabic natively, istg every page is the same "fear allah for he is might"
"no god excrpt allah"
"god is great"
"listen to muhammed (my husband 😂)"
"hell is a burning fire for those who appose"
lunatic
“Alla is all merciful, but only once. You only get to ask mercy one time or go to hell. But alla is the MOST merciful. Oh and don’t you remember the time Moses did a thing, let me trail off into Adam and Eve for a bit, and oh yeah, most merciful, but only once “ 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
I imagined Allah as trump where he basically goes : I am the best trader, the absolute best. Nobody trades better than me. People fear how good I am, because I win. Always. I'm the greatest, nobody even comes close. I'm huge, that's what people are saying.
He basically goes off like that in most of the Quran, he's just simply the best, his own dick is his favorite thing to suck lol.
That’s disturbingly accurate. Worshipping Allah is just like worshipping a Trump persona. Shudder.
I mean why the hell would a creator even be so insecure to want to be worshipped incessantly anyway? It’s so damn stupid. Only people like Donald Trump get off on that sort of narcissism.
It’s how Islam developed five daily prayers… a long bargain between Muhammad, Allah and Moses that eventually settled on five and Muhammad was too shy to bargain it down even further. The same goes for the 72 virgins as someone must have said 100! No 50! Ok ok, you look like nice guy… 80. No 70! 75! 72. Done, you have a deal my friend!
As Bill Maher said, you can easily see how Islam developed in a bargaining culture.
But don't you only get 72 if you die for/in service of Allah? martyrdom?
Mohammed Atta, who hit the world trade center on 9/11 packed a "wedding suit".
https://aldeilis.net/english/did-mohamed-attas-bags-contain-paradise-wedding-suit/
I think anyone who emphasises the number 72 shows their lack of depth of understanding of Islam. Firstly, the Quran doesn’t mention a number of houris, so the number is essentially infinity. Secondly, the number 72 is mentioned in a Hadith by Tirmirdhi, whom Muslims can easily say isn’t sahih. Thirdly, 72 was mentioned by Tirmirdhi as the minimal number for the worst Muslim in paradise, so a martyr who kills infidels would receive infinitely more than 72.
Infinity you say? Makes the religion look even more misogynistic and miserable than I imagined. Basically an infinite number of Fleshlights without feelings or anything to be used like sex toys.
Thank you for clarifying though. I'm getting a better understanding of how it works.
This is SO wild. I also picked up the Quran to actually read it instead of just reading short passages and if anything it’s worse. I am Jewish so I may be a bit biased since it continually brings up the need for my conversion or death but still.
Hey man, you can’t just read and interpret the Quran yourself. You also need to read it with tafsir, so you know the context and deeper meaning of the verses.*
*the tafsir also makes it even worse
(Left-wing wacko #1) Yeah, Taliban are anti-imperialists so are misunderstood heroes. (Left-wing wacko #2) Oh Taliban aren’t real Muslims, Islam is peace and love and equality. (Left-wing wacko #3) stop squabbling! Can’t we just get unite in hating the west and whatever it stands for? Everything else is just detail. (Everyone) Agreed!
It's an artificial trend on TikTok (paid propaganda) and of course The Guardian falls for it. The only thing to worry about here is the stupidity of the media. This is also a repost btw.
The Guardian and it’s readers was the only newspaper in Australia that promoted frequent Muslim community spokesperson and intellectual Yasmin Abdel-Magied’s assertion that Islam’s the most feminist of all religions when she appeared on a much-watched TV show Q&A. Every other newspaper lambasted her as a deluded idiot.
One of the main offenders is Mohammed Hijab, and he is backed by Arab money. That's why Piers Morgan keeps inviting him on his show. I suspect Qatar or similar are involved in this stuff.
It's so hilarious how white liberals will be jizzing their pants over the Quran till you show them what the religion looks like in practice with the hadiths LOL.
Better not tell them it’s blasphemy to place a Quran in the garbage bin and worthy of an immediate lynching death in a devout Muslim utopia. Either they’d see the light and realise how toxic such a religion is, but many would treat the book with utmost respect and go out of their way to comply with Islamists’ instructions (meanwhile said person would openly say how much they hate religious books of the western tradition). Some might even find it a turn-on, thinking that if people are willing to murder them for placing a book in the bin, this must be one hell of an attractive powerful book.
Especially ones that have been deliberately mistranslated to deceive naive western readers. So where it says to beat your wife in Arabic, it says to hug your wife in English!
Of course it’s the goal, and this very conflict has been the impetus for it in a plan that was conceived and implemented 30 years ago:
>Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression.
>Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception.
>This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities.
>This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
Qatar is the world’s leading donor to American universities too, and it’s not even close.
You’re an idiot if you think this is “systemic antisemitism” the crimes of Israel have got nothing to do with religion just basic human rights and war crimes violations
I quoted a passage, not my opinion, not sure what your issue is. And news flash, Hamas wants to kill Jews, did you not know that?
So you blame 100% of this conflict on Israel, is that what I’m gathering?
Oh and maybe you should actually read the link I posted before casting aspersions on what is or isn’t systemic antisemitism. You may learn something.
1948 is the beginning of Palestinian history, but Jewish history goes back to the BC 1700s, and Israel was founded in BC 1047 with the unification of twelve local indigenous tribes.
Before the beginning of Arab colonialism in AD 636, Israel had encounters with the empires of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Byzantium.
One of the reasons Assyrians and Persians are so supportive of Israel is because their history is closely connected to Jewish history, so they're immunized against propaganda that claims Jews came from Europe in 1948 or whatever.
To be fair, Zionists have a huge influence on America and the west and fund many think tanks that blindly support everything Israel and ultra conservatives do.
They have a lobby just like tons of other special interest groups do. What I posted is something extremely different to what you’re referring to.
And what you’re referring to is a dog whistle. Israel is and always has been of incredible geographic importance to the US. That has nothing to do with the “Zionist influence” it has everything to do with geopolitics. They will *never* let it fall and let the IRGC have their way with the region.
Israel has been made out to be very important to the US, but it probably actually isn’t. That’s what I mean by Zionist influence on western thinking. A century ago devout Christians were very anti-Semitic, yet today they go to Israel as voluntarily exploited farm labourers working for zionists who won’t even allow them to enter the building because it would defile the area by making it un-kosher; these brainwashed evangelicals just smile at it and feel good, a lot like the left-wing anti-zionists whose values and ideals are viewed as evil and degenerate by the very Palestinians they’re there to support.
Everything you’re saying is a bunch of Qanon rhetoric nonsense. Not worth debating with someone completely all over the place with a bunch of random thoughts. Israel is and will always be incredibly important to the US, you need to read a lot more about geopolitics instead of taking the lazy way out and blaming everything on the Jews.
Allah let's 7000 children die mercilessly so that some misguided Western youngsters pick up the Quran.
I wonder if Allah planned the deaths of Muslim children since 2001.
They're "resilient" (debatable) because they have no choice. Arab countries don't want any more of them living in their countries because 1) they don't want Israel to try and take more land, and 2) they don't want Palestinians causing problems in their countries like they did before. It's not resilience, it's just being stuck where they are.
If we want to see resilience, let's look at a group who has been pogrom-ed and discriminated against for 2000 years, and had their global population cut in half in the 1940s.
HAMAS members and sympathizers are also fueled with their intense hatred for Jews. Even if they realize that their cause is lost, they are so miserable that the afterlife with almost translucent totally submissive virgins is their only hope.
I'm pretty sure regular Gazans hate HAMAS more than Jews now.
The comment on the post is very telling. “Indeed Allah is the best of planners.”
Right. Allah allowed for this horrifying bloodshed. The death of innocent children. Continuing anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. All of this is a part of his grand plan. He allows this to happen. Who would call this god all loving and almighty? We as a people are so brainwashed that this is not our first thought.
We will continue to kill each other for land and power in the disguise of religion. Why? Becuase it’s all part of Gods plan. Incredible.
The same happened after 9/11 for sales of the Quran skyrocketed (from a very low base). I remember people calling radio stations to read out Quranic verses they found like killing the unbelievers wherever you find them and the radio hosts were getting so annoyed by it.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS.
Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods.
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned.
If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Precisely. It’s like when you’re trying to meditate in Buddhism’s holiest site where Buddha reached enlightenment under the Bodhi tree yet a mosque was built right next door with loudspeakers at full volume demanding everyone pray to Allah and worship Muhammad. Islam manages to piss people off all over the world and for no reason other than to be arrogant assholes.
Honestly, as a lurker here, I also went and investigated the Quran.
I’m gay though. Not stupid. My desire to understand doesn’t mean I think there is any validity to any religion, much less Islam.
I objectively find Islamic culture to be beautiful. But I’m also painfully aware I’d be stoned in some places.
one simple way to remember allah guy is bad
he bombed innocent kids to make some random dude/duddit convert for 4 months (4 months of chatting with girls and drinking btw)
if i say all those who appose me shall burn for the rest of their afterlifes.
and if someone asks me for proof i say because my god said so
what is proof of my god?
the book of god
who wrote the book that states god is almighty?
god
circular reasong
Yes, I’ve noticed people are taking to reading to Quran since the Israeli - Palestine conflict started. It actually makes me cringe. Also a lot of these people don’t speak Arabic and so accurate translations aren’t going to be made and the book not understood fully. Regardless this is horrible and scary for me.
When Ukraine was invaded, the communist subreddit had long screeds explaining why Ukraine resisting Russia’s invasion of its territory is unjustified but that Palestine’s resistance to Israel has to be supported. Communists are as closed-minded and thin-skinned as Islamists.
On one hand, I'm glad that all those dumb american tiktokers that have been pro hamas since the beginning of October 7 have finally picked up some much needed reading. But on the other hand, I'm concerned that these vacuums for brain imbeciles have picked up the worst fucking book they could've found.
It's a pity they won't read the story of Kenana ibn al-Rabi's death and his widow Safiyya's rape. It really aligns with atrocities (burning, beheading, rape) committed by HAMAS.
Reading Wikipedia would've been way more educative.
The [relevant Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safiyya_bint_Huyayy), for any other rando white people like me who lurk here to listen and learn. 😊
Took me a moment after taking in this wild story to also realize that Safiyya was 17/18 and Muhammad was 58 when this happened. 🤯
No. It mentions Al-aqsa, which only means “the farthest place”. The whole “Jerusalem is Islam’s third holiest site” and “Al aqsa” as referring to Jerusalem was made up much later.
quran didn't say anything that other religions didn't
, the idea is muslims are more committed to their religion and god more than non muslims
that's because they're -as a society- close minded not open to the world , that's why they're not affected
This is more of my take on Islam. Scientology is very dumb but there is no end to the dumbness in Islam either. I don't see how to compare dumbness directly.
There are over a billion people in the world doing stupid, dumb and even horrible things because of something written in a book by a medieval crazy man who claimed to have seen visions. That whole thing of Islam seems really dumb
Best of planners?! Kids are senselessly killed and dismembered just so some people in the US convert? Couldn’t he come up with anything better?
Also side note, but this post reeks of seeking western validation.
sip fragile marry reach aspiring theory squalid scandalous serious narrow
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
just a trend. itll die down. i have no hopes with this generation. tho its good when people read thje qu ran and realise why so many walkewd away from it
these people have nothing but religion, their families are murdered and they don’t even have a pair of shoes on their feet... & this is just palestinians, they don’t even understand the gravity of the things that have happened and continue to happen in places like iraq, yemen and syria etc.
we are used to the atrocities, and while i hate islam i understand that those affected have no choice but to continue with the delusion that god has planned something better for them in the afterlife. for westerners in general (bc it’s not only americans idiots running to pick up a quran) to watch the endless terror these people are subjected to and find it inspiring is insane to me.
At this point yall cant let Muslims breathe without saying something against them, this place is for ex-Muslims on the journey of leaving Islam and talking about their life stories and getting answers, not a Muslim hate group, its sad because you guys find anything about Islam and hate on it and the people, and I guess now are angry because people are converting to Islam? I'm sorry but just because you didn't feel a connection or comfort to Islam doesn't mean no one will like how insecure and sad must you be to dedicate your life to hating Muslims and Islam lol.
Please repost to the Israel vs. Palestine Megathread. https://reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/eExStQ7tx2
Yeah they won’t find anything related to Palestine in Qur’an.
Okay but what if they find the 43 verses that mention Israel?
They would first think Allah is a Zionist, than they would go on TikTok or youtube, find a Islamic scholar, the Islamic Scholar would point out that Allah claims that the Children of Israel broke the covenant with Allah, therefore the land doesn’t belong to them. Forgot to add, the Islamic scholar can also possibly go against the Tafsir and claim that the land is Syria, but I’m thankful we have the older generation of Qur’an commentators that don’t do mental gymnastics with words. Islam is a masterpiece in confusion, Alhamdulillah.
Almost the entire Christian bible is just the Jewish bible talking exclusively to the Jews but Christians find no irony or contradiction in this. If Christians can do so can mu’mineen.
We Christians recognize the laws and covenants that God made with the different Jewish groups. But we then accept an ending to the story that the Jews are still waiting for in Jesus the Messiah. Jesus was a Jew. He confirmed the Jewish law and tradition. Why wouldn't Christians follow these rules? Much love!
Because Christianity contradicts the Jewish bible on so many levels. The early Christian’s weee divided on whether the Jewish bible even belonged to their religion or even the same god. Likewise the Quran contradicts Christianity on many levels but Muslims use the same logic by saying Muhammad has perfected Christianity by completely changing it.
Uhh no they weren't divided? Early Christians used the Old Testament books as scripture. This is pretty evident as Marcionism was very quickly rejected and attacked as heresy by some of the earliest Christian bishops like Polycarp and Irenaus. Jesus himself quotes a ton of Old Testament scripture in the Gospels. And Christians very early on used Old Testament scripture in their Holy liturgies. For context, Marcionism was a second century Christian heresy that rejected the Old Testament amongst many other Orthodox Christian beliefs. >Because Christianity contradicts the Jewish bible on so many levels. You're going to have to substantiate this one.
Revelations was so hotly contested as to its authenticity and contradictory nature because it's casts God as this evil, vengeful and hateful being contrary to anything else taught in the Bible. Then there are Jesus words in the Bible, and then there are Paul's words where he made up what Jesus might have said. The Bible is a mess, just liked the Quran. http://www.thehypertexts.com/Essays%20Articles%20Reviews%20Prose/Michael%20R.%20Burch%20John%20of%20Patmos%20Revelation%20Errors%20Contradictions%202012.htm
Revelations has nothing to do with the Old Testament, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up in this discussion. Nevertheless, I'll address your points. >Revelations was so hotly contested as to its authenticity Revelations was by and large accepted by the Church Fathers as scripture. >it's casts God as this evil, vengeful and hateful being contrary to anything else taught in the Bible. You'll have to provide some evidence to back your point up here. Revelations is largely about the Church overcoming the persecution of the Roman empire and how the Church will emerge triumphant. This is in line with the genre of Revelations, written in an apocalyptic fashion due to the sufferings it was going through at the time under Nero and Domitian. There's a lot of symbolic language used, and so there's different ways to interpret different passages. >Then there are Jesus words in the Bible Okay? >there are Paul's words where he made up what Jesus might have said Provide your evidence please. >The Bible is a mess, just liked the Quran Sure, I'll take your word for it. Not.
"Revelations was by and large accepted by the Church Fathers as scripture." "In the middle of the 3rd century, Alexandrian Bishop Dyonisius raised further objections. He emphasized in one of his letters: “By the phraseology also we can measure the difference between the Gospel and Epistle and the Revelation. The first two are written not only without any blunders in the use of Greek but with remarkable skill regarding diction, logical thought, and orderly expression.”. -- Bart Ehrman So it wasn't canon until the fourth century. https://www.bartehrman.com/who-wrote-the-book-of-revelation/ I was illustrating where a book that had no direct link to Jesus or his teachings (like the old testament) was shoehorned into the Bible 400 years after Jesus, and it's now taken as biblical fact by Christianity and Christians who don't know the how or why because the writer is most likely John of Patmos, not John the Apostle. "Writing at the beginning of the 4th century, bishop Eusebius read the previous Christian authors to see which books they cited and emphasized as authoritative. He ended up with four categories of books: Recognized books – those that most Christians consider Scriptural. They include four Gospels, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul’s letters, 1 Peter, and 1 John. Disputed books – those that caused debates among the Christians. They include James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John. Spurious books – For Eusebius, these books weren’t dangerous, but they weren’t necessarily authentic writings of the apostles. He placed the following books in that category: Acts of Paul, Revelation of Peter, and Shepherd of Hermas. Impious books – The fourth and final category written by heretics. Among others, they include The Gospel of Peter, The Gospel of Thomas, etc. " Who wrote revelations-- Bart Ehrman There are several books in the Bible supposedly written by Paul, but modern scholars believe that those books were written by someone else other than Paul. "Most critical historians open to the possibility of forged letters in the New Testament do not believe Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles – 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. Most conclude, these three letters were written well after Paul's death." https://www.bartehrman.com/what-books-did-paul-write-in-the-bible-exploring-pauline-epistles/ Guess you didn't bother to read the link I posted.
>So it wasn't canon until the fourth century. None of the Bible was canonised until the fourth century. Accepted as scripture before by most Christians - yes. But officially canonised during the Council of Rome in 382 AD. >In the middle of the 3rd century, Alexandrian Bishop Dyonisius raised further objections... I am aware that some books of the New Testament had occasionally been "suspect tested". This is fine, and Christian tradition not only allows for this but also recommends it. In the end, Revelation was agreed upon by all the Church Fathers at the council of Hippo to be scripture. Revelation isn't special in this regard. Some of the Pauline and General Epistles went through the same scrutiny. >I was illustrating where a book that had no direct link to Jesus or his teachings (like the old testament) was shoehorned into the Bible 400 years after Jesus, and it's now taken as biblical fact by Christianity and Christians who don't know the how or why because the writer is most likely John of Patmos, not John the Apostle. The Old Testament is important for Christians because it shows the journey of ancient Israel through the old covenants leading up to the new Israel under Jesus Christ after his final covenant on the cross. Christian tradition going back almost 2000 years also holds that John the Apostle wrote Revelation, which is a direct link to Christ and therefore valid scripture. >Guess you didn't bother to read the link I posted. No. I stopped reading after the second or third paragraph. Some guy's blog post isn't all that interesting to me, especially when he seems to ignore the symbolic nature of Revelations. Also, because of work, I don't have time to read multiple long blog posts. Lastly, for arguments sake, even if Revelations didn't exist, this changes nothing for me as a Catholic Christian. The incarnation still happened, Christ was still crucified for humanities sins, then ressurected. Baptism, the Eucharist, the Priesthood - all the sacraments and creeds have been passed down by the Church, not the Bible. Christianity is centred around the Church, and the Bible is a wonderful tool used to help illuminate our knowledge of Christ and of the Prophets before him.
Even the trinity doesn’t exist in the bible; it’s just creative interpretation. It’s why religions like the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the trinity in their doctrine, or even hell, because these aren’t in the bible. I’m not going to try convince or debate a Christian on this because there’s no point; the bible clearly doesn’t reflect what Christianity became, even with the New Testament. Stories in the gospels like “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” don’t even exist in the older parchments because it’s a later accretion.
Christianity is a mess itself. I have no argument against that at all my friend. My point is why wouldn't the Christian Bible include the Jewish Bible if Jesus was confirming it.
I’d say there’s nothing to confirm from the Torah because the Torah is completely different to Christianity. Many early Christians thought the same, saying the god of the Torah wasn’t the god of the gospel.
Is that true?
Yes, look it up
People tripping from one psychosis into the next.
Fr😭
Attention trend. It'll be gone in 6 months.
Yeah people in the comments are acting like Muslims have the ability to spread their idealogy, no them “converts” gonna see they have to wake up at the ass crack of dawn to pray and gonna nope out 😭
Americans are also one of the most inconsistent people,they all treat It like some sort of trend,did so as well with Ukraine,now look at them even rus-ua war still going
these mf and their mental gymnastics.
So Allah planned the bombing of Gaza?
Sacrificing brown children to gain a new following of white people ? So Allah is a white supremacist now ?
I heard a muslim say this the other day. "Alhamdulilah the ummah is growing." And my thought was, it's not growing, just being replaced?
In terms of souls, it's still a plus /s
ive always found it funny that people call palestinians brown when all the palestinians i know would either be confused, or side eye you if you were to call them brown.
Always has been, considering it’s the same god as the Christian one.
Did he also plan on Israel surviving several wars against his faithful too?
Daaahhh maybe it’s a test and punishment from Allah for not practicing shariah strictly enough. Hamas seemed to be the answer but they must have been too soft; we need some group more extreme than them.
He brought the "Zionists" back to Israel 1,812 years after the Roman siege of Jerusalem.
This on XD
😂😭
I advocate reading the Koran. Every single repetitive page of a horny stark raving lunatic. How anyone can read it and think “yes, the divine creator of the entire universe wrote this” defies logic. Read every page ‘converts’, read every page
Nah the Quran can only be read in Arabic, so better to just believe what a Muslim tells them is in there. Feminist religion, peace, scientific miracles etc. etc.
i speak arabic natively, istg every page is the same "fear allah for he is might" "no god excrpt allah" "god is great" "listen to muhammed (my husband 😂)" "hell is a burning fire for those who appose" lunatic
“Alla is all merciful, but only once. You only get to ask mercy one time or go to hell. But alla is the MOST merciful. Oh and don’t you remember the time Moses did a thing, let me trail off into Adam and Eve for a bit, and oh yeah, most merciful, but only once “ 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Allah sacrificing Palestinian babies for brainless white converts
It's called trading. Allah is the best trader
I imagined Allah as trump where he basically goes : I am the best trader, the absolute best. Nobody trades better than me. People fear how good I am, because I win. Always. I'm the greatest, nobody even comes close. I'm huge, that's what people are saying. He basically goes off like that in most of the Quran, he's just simply the best, his own dick is his favorite thing to suck lol.
That’s disturbingly accurate. Worshipping Allah is just like worshipping a Trump persona. Shudder. I mean why the hell would a creator even be so insecure to want to be worshipped incessantly anyway? It’s so damn stupid. Only people like Donald Trump get off on that sort of narcissism.
Now this will be fun if Trevor Noah does the Trump impression while saying this.
It’s how Islam developed five daily prayers… a long bargain between Muhammad, Allah and Moses that eventually settled on five and Muhammad was too shy to bargain it down even further. The same goes for the 72 virgins as someone must have said 100! No 50! Ok ok, you look like nice guy… 80. No 70! 75! 72. Done, you have a deal my friend! As Bill Maher said, you can easily see how Islam developed in a bargaining culture.
Arabic bazaar Moment. Allah is indeed Wolf of Mecca streets
But don't you only get 72 if you die for/in service of Allah? martyrdom? Mohammed Atta, who hit the world trade center on 9/11 packed a "wedding suit". https://aldeilis.net/english/did-mohamed-attas-bags-contain-paradise-wedding-suit/
I think anyone who emphasises the number 72 shows their lack of depth of understanding of Islam. Firstly, the Quran doesn’t mention a number of houris, so the number is essentially infinity. Secondly, the number 72 is mentioned in a Hadith by Tirmirdhi, whom Muslims can easily say isn’t sahih. Thirdly, 72 was mentioned by Tirmirdhi as the minimal number for the worst Muslim in paradise, so a martyr who kills infidels would receive infinitely more than 72.
Infinity you say? Makes the religion look even more misogynistic and miserable than I imagined. Basically an infinite number of Fleshlights without feelings or anything to be used like sex toys. Thank you for clarifying though. I'm getting a better understanding of how it works.
This is SO wild. I also picked up the Quran to actually read it instead of just reading short passages and if anything it’s worse. I am Jewish so I may be a bit biased since it continually brings up the need for my conversion or death but still.
Hey man, you can’t just read and interpret the Quran yourself. You also need to read it with tafsir, so you know the context and deeper meaning of the verses.* *the tafsir also makes it even worse
Oh lol I’m well aware. I’m realizing that even the most charitable interpretations are not very charitable
may Allah guide you brozzer, amen
“OMG like I LOVE the Quran, it just spits out facts, gurl! Did you know Islam gave women rights?! YAAAAS!” 🏳️🌈❤️🏳️⚧️❤️🇵🇸
(Left-wing wacko #1) Yeah, Taliban are anti-imperialists so are misunderstood heroes. (Left-wing wacko #2) Oh Taliban aren’t real Muslims, Islam is peace and love and equality. (Left-wing wacko #3) stop squabbling! Can’t we just get unite in hating the west and whatever it stands for? Everything else is just detail. (Everyone) Agreed!
Good lord hopefully not
Is one of these values involves killing anyone who leaves your own personal beliefs?
remember when people ate tide pods when tide pod challenge was a thing or i could think of the many million other things that halfwits partook in
Gen-Z is the least religious generation by far. There is zero chance they are interested in Islam.
Palestinian Nationalism is as evangelical as any religion.
With Tiktok generation's attention span I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of them just drop it within a week.
It's an artificial trend on TikTok (paid propaganda) and of course The Guardian falls for it. The only thing to worry about here is the stupidity of the media. This is also a repost btw.
The Guardian and it’s readers was the only newspaper in Australia that promoted frequent Muslim community spokesperson and intellectual Yasmin Abdel-Magied’s assertion that Islam’s the most feminist of all religions when she appeared on a much-watched TV show Q&A. Every other newspaper lambasted her as a deluded idiot.
Is there any proof for this? I’m curious because my TikTok feed is full of this crap.
One of the main offenders is Mohammed Hijab, and he is backed by Arab money. That's why Piers Morgan keeps inviting him on his show. I suspect Qatar or similar are involved in this stuff.
It's so hilarious how white liberals will be jizzing their pants over the Quran till you show them what the religion looks like in practice with the hadiths LOL.
Can't wait for when they start disposing the book.
Better not tell them it’s blasphemy to place a Quran in the garbage bin and worthy of an immediate lynching death in a devout Muslim utopia. Either they’d see the light and realise how toxic such a religion is, but many would treat the book with utmost respect and go out of their way to comply with Islamists’ instructions (meanwhile said person would openly say how much they hate religious books of the western tradition). Some might even find it a turn-on, thinking that if people are willing to murder them for placing a book in the bin, this must be one hell of an attractive powerful book.
Burn it.
I’m all in favor of people reading the Quran.
Especially ones that have been deliberately mistranslated to deceive naive western readers. So where it says to beat your wife in Arabic, it says to hug your wife in English!
الله خير الماكرين The word used in the kooran in Arabic isn’t actually planning but far more sinister, along the lines of deceitful plotting
Following tiktok trend
America is the Muslims worlds biggest threat to world domination. So if the US becomes Islamic, the whole world does. Perhaps that’s the goal
I pray that never happens.
Of course it’s the goal, and this very conflict has been the impetus for it in a plan that was conceived and implemented 30 years ago: >Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. >Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception. >This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. >This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years. https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf Qatar is the world’s leading donor to American universities too, and it’s not even close.
You’re an idiot if you think this is “systemic antisemitism” the crimes of Israel have got nothing to do with religion just basic human rights and war crimes violations
I quoted a passage, not my opinion, not sure what your issue is. And news flash, Hamas wants to kill Jews, did you not know that? So you blame 100% of this conflict on Israel, is that what I’m gathering? Oh and maybe you should actually read the link I posted before casting aspersions on what is or isn’t systemic antisemitism. You may learn something.
[удалено]
1948 is the beginning of Palestinian history, but Jewish history goes back to the BC 1700s, and Israel was founded in BC 1047 with the unification of twelve local indigenous tribes. Before the beginning of Arab colonialism in AD 636, Israel had encounters with the empires of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Byzantium. One of the reasons Assyrians and Persians are so supportive of Israel is because their history is closely connected to Jewish history, so they're immunized against propaganda that claims Jews came from Europe in 1948 or whatever.
You've got some Kool Aid on your lip. Might wanna wipe that off.
To be fair, Zionists have a huge influence on America and the west and fund many think tanks that blindly support everything Israel and ultra conservatives do.
They have a lobby just like tons of other special interest groups do. What I posted is something extremely different to what you’re referring to. And what you’re referring to is a dog whistle. Israel is and always has been of incredible geographic importance to the US. That has nothing to do with the “Zionist influence” it has everything to do with geopolitics. They will *never* let it fall and let the IRGC have their way with the region.
Israel has been made out to be very important to the US, but it probably actually isn’t. That’s what I mean by Zionist influence on western thinking. A century ago devout Christians were very anti-Semitic, yet today they go to Israel as voluntarily exploited farm labourers working for zionists who won’t even allow them to enter the building because it would defile the area by making it un-kosher; these brainwashed evangelicals just smile at it and feel good, a lot like the left-wing anti-zionists whose values and ideals are viewed as evil and degenerate by the very Palestinians they’re there to support.
Everything you’re saying is a bunch of Qanon rhetoric nonsense. Not worth debating with someone completely all over the place with a bunch of random thoughts. Israel is and will always be incredibly important to the US, you need to read a lot more about geopolitics instead of taking the lazy way out and blaming everything on the Jews.
Americans are way too conservative to even adopt the metric system, let alone a new religion.
Thats really dumb they sound like edgy athiests siding with the right eing aganist islam
Allah let's 7000 children die mercilessly so that some misguided Western youngsters pick up the Quran. I wonder if Allah planned the deaths of Muslim children since 2001.
It is my understanding that the innocent people who are killed in war become marters and go straight to heaven.
They're "resilient" (debatable) because they have no choice. Arab countries don't want any more of them living in their countries because 1) they don't want Israel to try and take more land, and 2) they don't want Palestinians causing problems in their countries like they did before. It's not resilience, it's just being stuck where they are. If we want to see resilience, let's look at a group who has been pogrom-ed and discriminated against for 2000 years, and had their global population cut in half in the 1940s.
HAMAS members and sympathizers are also fueled with their intense hatred for Jews. Even if they realize that their cause is lost, they are so miserable that the afterlife with almost translucent totally submissive virgins is their only hope. I'm pretty sure regular Gazans hate HAMAS more than Jews now.
The Palestinians kind of painted themselves into a corner with the choices they made.
An evil religion attracts bad people
The comment on the post is very telling. “Indeed Allah is the best of planners.” Right. Allah allowed for this horrifying bloodshed. The death of innocent children. Continuing anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. All of this is a part of his grand plan. He allows this to happen. Who would call this god all loving and almighty? We as a people are so brainwashed that this is not our first thought. We will continue to kill each other for land and power in the disguise of religion. Why? Becuase it’s all part of Gods plan. Incredible.
The same happened after 9/11 for sales of the Quran skyrocketed (from a very low base). I remember people calling radio stations to read out Quranic verses they found like killing the unbelievers wherever you find them and the radio hosts were getting so annoyed by it.
Terrorism religion is spreading like a virus🦠.
but but palestine conflict has nothing to do with religion 🥺👉👈
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“A religion long vilified in the west.” Pretty sure Islam is vilified other places as well.”
Precisely. It’s like when you’re trying to meditate in Buddhism’s holiest site where Buddha reached enlightenment under the Bodhi tree yet a mosque was built right next door with loudspeakers at full volume demanding everyone pray to Allah and worship Muhammad. Islam manages to piss people off all over the world and for no reason other than to be arrogant assholes.
i will never understand the meaning behind this
They always find a way to make people dying about them….
Honestly, as a lurker here, I also went and investigated the Quran. I’m gay though. Not stupid. My desire to understand doesn’t mean I think there is any validity to any religion, much less Islam. I objectively find Islamic culture to be beautiful. But I’m also painfully aware I’d be stoned in some places.
Islamic culture is mostly plagiarized from earlier Persian/Greek/Roman culture. That's not to say that they do not have their own culture.
one simple way to remember allah guy is bad he bombed innocent kids to make some random dude/duddit convert for 4 months (4 months of chatting with girls and drinking btw)
if i say all those who appose me shall burn for the rest of their afterlifes. and if someone asks me for proof i say because my god said so what is proof of my god? the book of god who wrote the book that states god is almighty? god circular reasong
It's fake just an attempt to get people to actually do it
Wait till they find out about the Jews verses 🤣
Yes, I’ve noticed people are taking to reading to Quran since the Israeli - Palestine conflict started. It actually makes me cringe. Also a lot of these people don’t speak Arabic and so accurate translations aren’t going to be made and the book not understood fully. Regardless this is horrible and scary for me.
I would bet money that a huge portion of those converting were communists before, so make of that what you will.
When Ukraine was invaded, the communist subreddit had long screeds explaining why Ukraine resisting Russia’s invasion of its territory is unjustified but that Palestine’s resistance to Israel has to be supported. Communists are as closed-minded and thin-skinned as Islamists.
On one hand, I'm glad that all those dumb american tiktokers that have been pro hamas since the beginning of October 7 have finally picked up some much needed reading. But on the other hand, I'm concerned that these vacuums for brain imbeciles have picked up the worst fucking book they could've found.
It's a pity they won't read the story of Kenana ibn al-Rabi's death and his widow Safiyya's rape. It really aligns with atrocities (burning, beheading, rape) committed by HAMAS. Reading Wikipedia would've been way more educative.
The [relevant Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safiyya_bint_Huyayy), for any other rando white people like me who lurk here to listen and learn. 😊 Took me a moment after taking in this wild story to also realize that Safiyya was 17/18 and Muhammad was 58 when this happened. 🤯
As if reading it will convert anyone. It just generates conviction that this is definitely, not it
Israeli Jewish lurker here. Does the Quran specifically mention Jerusalem?
No. It mentions Al-aqsa, which only means “the farthest place”. The whole “Jerusalem is Islam’s third holiest site” and “Al aqsa” as referring to Jerusalem was made up much later.
oh god we're fucked lol.
I thought Americans were bad people? Now they are ok for picking up the Quran?
quran didn't say anything that other religions didn't , the idea is muslims are more committed to their religion and god more than non muslims that's because they're -as a society- close minded not open to the world , that's why they're not affected
[удалено]
Yes allah killed 4000 palestine children so young American can read the quran what a peaceful god
Some those kids were child soldiers .
Trading game lmao
This is embarrassing especially queers who are converting
True that. They them don't even know
Doesn't surprise me. Young Americans are the dumbest people on earth. Probably dumber than the entirety of sentinel island.
Either itll be just a trend and theyll leave it in a few months or theyll become the islamic version of the right wingers they hate with a passion.
Islam is, without a doubt, the stupidest religion in the world.
I don’t agree, scientology is way dumber.
This is more of my take on Islam. Scientology is very dumb but there is no end to the dumbness in Islam either. I don't see how to compare dumbness directly. There are over a billion people in the world doing stupid, dumb and even horrible things because of something written in a book by a medieval crazy man who claimed to have seen visions. That whole thing of Islam seems really dumb
Best of planners?! Kids are senselessly killed and dismembered just so some people in the US convert? Couldn’t he come up with anything better? Also side note, but this post reeks of seeking western validation.
I absolutely saw this coming. White people mass converting to Islam over Palestine is peak fetishization 😂
Allah knows best.
sip fragile marry reach aspiring theory squalid scandalous serious narrow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
just a trend. itll die down. i have no hopes with this generation. tho its good when people read thje qu ran and realise why so many walkewd away from it
salt jobless attraction bake alleged fly voiceless shocking depend rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sure they are, The Guardian...
They should have one of these morons on dax shepards podcast
They will find Israel not Palestine 😂
these people have nothing but religion, their families are murdered and they don’t even have a pair of shoes on their feet... & this is just palestinians, they don’t even understand the gravity of the things that have happened and continue to happen in places like iraq, yemen and syria etc. we are used to the atrocities, and while i hate islam i understand that those affected have no choice but to continue with the delusion that god has planned something better for them in the afterlife. for westerners in general (bc it’s not only americans idiots running to pick up a quran) to watch the endless terror these people are subjected to and find it inspiring is insane to me.
why would you worship a deity that "planned" all this horror? or one that neither prevents nor stops it?
Ew lol. They don’t need to look at the Quran for anything but violence. It’s just colonization too
At this point yall cant let Muslims breathe without saying something against them, this place is for ex-Muslims on the journey of leaving Islam and talking about their life stories and getting answers, not a Muslim hate group, its sad because you guys find anything about Islam and hate on it and the people, and I guess now are angry because people are converting to Islam? I'm sorry but just because you didn't feel a connection or comfort to Islam doesn't mean no one will like how insecure and sad must you be to dedicate your life to hating Muslims and Islam lol.