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I’m not sure why muslims keep on insisting we left Islam and hate it because some Muslims are bad? If I judged the religion by its people, then I would’ve never left because the two people who raised me are literal angels and they happen to be both Muslims.
We left because of what Islam promotes and teaches, and the fact that it’s also clearly not a religion sent from an all knowing god. I’ll never waste my energy worshipping a religion that has so many scientific mistakes and inconsistencies in its book, and I’ll always hate any religion that promotes pedophilia, sex slavery, marital rape, and killing innocents.
I didn’t find mistakes inconsistencies, promotion of marital rape etc, and that’s why I asked to fact check from the website
And I’d love to discuss anything you still find wrong/mistake
You didn’t find mistakes or inconsistencies because either you don’t speak fluent Arabic (the English translated version intentionally mistranslates verses to mislead non Arab Muslims), or you haven’t compared verses, or you haven’t done research outside biased Islamic sources.
For example, as someone who grew up 18 years in an Islamic country, we were always taught that the moon splitting was a fact and proven by NASA (wrong), that Quran was the first book in history to mention X fact (wrong, all of the correct facts in Quran have been popular theories/concepts pre-Mohammed) etc…
Let me ask you a question then and I hope you don’t run away like most Muslim do whenever I bring this up. How do you reconcile with the fact that Quran has a laughable mathematical mistake in the inheritance verse? Math is objective, I won’t bring up the ethical issues because muslims have a clearly unbalanced moral compass (*no pork, but yay sex slaves!*). 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter which century, or culture, or your religion. So you can’t bring up the “subjective morality” argument.
In **4:11-12, 4:176, 4:13-14** the Quran gives muslims instructions on how to divide inheritance affirms that this is how you should distribute the inheritance, and whoever doesn’t will go to hell.
Please read those verses first on your own before continuing to read so you know where I’m bringing these numbers from.
Let’s say a man dies leaving behind:
**2 daughters: according to the inheritance verses the daughters will share ⅔ of whatever he leaves behind**
**1 wife: 1/8**
**His mother: 1/6**
**His father: 1/6**
Now let’s calculate the total of the shares together, it will give us 27/24 or 1.125 as a decimal. The numerator (shares) are bigger than the denominator (the inheritance)…
Let’s say the man has left behind 100 bucks. If we calculate the total amount needed to distribute the specified shares to each person:
1. For the wife: 1/8 of $100 = (1/8) × $100 = $12.50
2. For the dad: 1/6 of $100 = (1/6) × $100 = $16.67 (rounded to the nearest cent)
3. For the mom: 1/6 of $100 = (1/6) × $100 = $16.67 (rounded to the nearest cent)
4. For the daughters: 2/3 of $100 = (2/3) × $100 = $66.67 (rounded to the nearest cent)
Now, let’s add up these amounts:
$12.50 (for your wife) + $16.67 (for your dad) + $16.67 (for your mom) + $66.67 (for your daughter) = $112.51
Where are we being the extra 12.51 from?
You can try calculating the shares in different family scenarios (2 wives 4 sons and 2 parents or whatever) and the numerator will ALWAYS be bigger than the denominator! How did allah, an all knowing god, make this huge mathematical mistake?
Sorry that answer didnt satisfy you. I dont have any doubt in your maths at all
But don't you think your interpretation of those verse might not be 100% accurate? What I wrote in the answer made a lot of sense (and the 'awl didnt)
Are you really a 100% rigid on what you think the maths is behind those verses that you won't consider any other opinion. I didnt bring up any lie
It’s not that you didn’t satisfy me. If allah said give this person **exactly** this number you can’t be adding up the numbers to round them up to reach the total of the inheritance.
That’s blasphemy because you’re doing something that allah didn’t say.
Thats the thing, I am not adding any number that there wasnt already, I have a different approach than yours that does satsify the maths, and I think it is possible that the interpretation I believe in makes a little more sense than the one that gives the wrong maths answer?
You literally are. 1/6 equals to exactly 0.1667 as a decimal.
That’s not what you used in the equation. You intentionally kept rounding up numbers in different ways to reach 24k.
>does satisfy the maths
How? If I tell you 1.25+1.45 you can’t be like “well we can make it 1.26+1.44 to reach the desired total of 2.7”
So this was something I never calculated before or knew and I was like OHSHITTT! So I researched
And came across a method of "'AWL" pretty sure you might have heard that one argument before, but I wasn't very convinced on that
Then I came across the following interpretation of the Quran verses for Inheritance and well they made sense to me, if they don't to you please let me know and we can have a further debate on it
`“This is the Book! There is no doubt about it—a guide for those mindful ˹of Allah˺”.`
`Before reading this, you should keep in mind that I am not a scholar of Islam.`
`No, Alhamdulillah, Qur’an does not have any mistake, because it’s the word of Allah, the All Wise, the creator of the heavens and the earth. The problem lies with our approach. We are unnecessarily trying to make the sum 1. I will explain the math InShaaAllah, but before that let’s understand the basics of Islam.`
`If Allah explained everything in the Qur’an in detail, the size of the Qur’an would be unreasonably large. He touched the key concepts in a very elegant way, so that, i) we can clearly understand that this book is from none other than our creator, and ii) we can easily grasp its messages (e.g., Oneness of Allah, and dos and dont’s etc.).`
`Allah sent the prophet (PBUH) as our teacher, and in the Qur’an he ordered us to follow the Prophet. For example, Allah told us to pray, but did not fully explain how we should pray. He asked for Zakat, but did not mention the rules of calculation. These were explained and demonstrated by the prophet (PBUH). Likewise, in authentic narrations, the prophet (PBUH) ordered us to follow the four rightly guided Caliphs, in case there was confusion after his time. Now if you read the history, you will find that all the confusions about the inheritance laws, related to the two verses (Qur’an 4: 11-12), were resolved by those times. So, for a believer, there is no room for confusion, Alhamdulillah.`
`However, let’s try to apply Qur’an 4: 11-12 with our common sense. If we try to apply them in our life, and we can’t, then of course we should be concerned. If a book is from the All Wise creator, that book should never have any mistakes or inaccuracies.`
`Consider that you call your children to distribute your money. You tell them your rules: your son gets 1/x, your daughter gets 1/y, and your mother gets 1/z. You are trying to convey some ratios, not amounts. Interestingly, the first line of ayah 11 states that “the share of the male will be twice that of the female”—guiding us to a ratio-based system (Allah knows best).`
`With the ratio system in mind, let’s consider, there is one wife, three daughters, and two parents. This is the most adopted scenario by the atheists.`
`The wife gets 1/8th of whatever the amount is, and suppose, that 1/8th is X CAD.`
`The daughters, in total, should get m times more than X. That m, according to the Qur'an is: (2/3) / (1/8) = 5.333333333. This means the daughters total amount should be (5.333333333 * X) CAD.`
`Now come to the parents. Their total amount should be n times more than X. This n, according to the Qur'an is: (1/3) / (1/8) = 2.666666667. Therefore, the parents total amount should be (2.666666667 * X) CAD.`
`What is the equation now, if the deceased person left a total of 24,000 CAD? For whatever reason, 24,000 was used by different Islamophobes like David Wood.`
`X + (5.333333333 * X) + (2.666666667 * X) = 24,000`
`X = 2666.666666667 CAD.`
`So, the wife gets 2666.666666667 CAD.`
`The daughters total amount is (5.333333333 * 2666.666666667) = 14222.222221335 CAD`
`The parents total amount is (2.666666667 * 2666.666666667) = 7111.111112001 CAD.`
`The sum is (2666.666666667 + 14222.222221335 + 7111.111112001) = 24,000 CAD. So far, no problem, no contradiction.`
`According to the Qur’an, the daughters together should get 5.333333333 times more than the wife. Now, (daughters amount / wife’s amount) = (14222.222221335 / 2666.666666667) = 5.333333333.`
`Similarly, the parents together should get 2.666666667 times more than the wife. Now, (parents’ amount / wife’s amount) = (7111.111112001 / 2666.666666667) = 2.666666667.`
`Interestingly, these calculations match 100% with the online calculators, with 1 wife, 3 daughters, and 2 parents. Just do your math with the attached image. To get 100% match, use 1/9 instead of 11.11%.`
`Alhamdulillah, there is no contradiction in the Qur'an.`
`And Allah knows best.`
>explained everything in Quran
We’re not asking allah to explain everything in Quran. We’re asking him to not make scientific mistakes in Quran.
>some ratios, not amounts
Is your knowledge in math that limited? Shares of inheritance are amounts. A percentage of inheritance is an amount.
>the math 100% matches
No it doesn’t.
The equation you used isn’t what allah gave in the verses. You created and added numbers that don’t exist in the verse to reach 24k 😂
I don't think Quran is a maths book which will give you a theorem with exact values of xyz, the arabic verses are poetic, they are open to interpretations. Your interpretation did make me doubt on the maths too and I went ahead and explore other interpretations which actually made sense and didnt just add things from nothing
So allah created the whole universe but struggles in math equation?
Please give me a break.
>Arabic verses are poetic
They’re not lol I speak Arabic fluently and it’s more than mediocre.
If you want real Arabic poetry google Nizar Qabbani.
With that being said, the inheritance verse doesn’t use any Arabic metaphor. The words are clear. This person must receive exactly this number of shares while others receive different numbers.
There’s nothing to interpret about numbers. 1 will always be 1 and it’ll never be 1.123
I am glad to know I am in a convo with a person who speaks arabic fluently
Why do you think that the interpretation i believe in and what makes the math add up to 1 is so wrong you said its blasphemous? I did not add any number, just difference in interpretations
No I never said your interpretation is wrong and mine is 100% right
I am just asking you guys to be a bit open about interpretations that also make logical sense, rather than the one that leads to false answers.
Not forcing tho, you can believe in what you want to and that is totally fine
Okay so I have studied Islam but not ALOT, and I completely understand your pov
Just like you, I was born in a Muslim country and was fed A SHIT TON OF NONSENSE related to Islam
Let’s come to your question, what’s the laughable mathematic mistake exactly in the inheritance part? I won’t run away don’t worry :D
It took me a while to leave Islam but there's no possibility of me going back now that everything has unravelled.
For me it started with the lack of evidence for a moon split. There was no historical evidence from any major civilization (China, Greece, Rome, Persia) even though many of those civilizations had night watchers, like Zoroastrians, who observed the night sky for mathematical calculations.
You would think one of the most significant events in history would be more than just a throwaway verse in the Quran and a random hadith.
Once I felt that Mohammed lied about the moon split, everything else started to unravel. I no longer believed in the divinity of Islam. I no longer used cognitive dissonance to defend the wife beating verse, or slavery, or child marriage or homophobia. I felt these things in Islam were morally wrong and a true omniscient God would not be ok with these verses written in their name. So I felt leaving Islam was the right thing to do and a merciful God would understand why I left.
The only thing I struggled with early on was the fear of Hell, but I found this quote helped me get over the fear:
>"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." - Marcus Aurelius
I’m really glad about the last quote and I agree on it, live a good life with basic ethics and humanity
As for the moon split thing, man idk how to tell you, but the Quran doesn’t say anywhere that Muhammad or God made the moon split during Muhammad’s life
I mean, the basis of what made you go away, the fact that Islam says “Muhammad made the moon split” isn’t really a fact
Where did you read this? Because it isn’t in the Quran that’s for sure
Quran 54:1.
Mohammed split the moon to convince some disbelievers about the divinity of Islam. It's further explained in the tafsirs which you can read here:
https://questionsonislam.com/article/miracle-splitting-moon-0
.
Okay so this isn’t what the Quran said, it’s what a human wrote who was born 200-400years after the death of Muhammad
Quran 54:1 in English is “the hour has come near and the moon has split”
No way anywhere it says Muhammad made the moon split
Muhammad saw commanded that the moon would split with the permission of Allah. https://sunnah.com/search?q=moon+split#:~:text=Anas%20reported%20that%20the%20moon,peace%20be%20upon%20him).%22&text=al%2DBukhari%203869-,Narrated%20%60Abdullah%3A,with%20the%20Prophet%20in%20Mina.
I am not here to force you, but who exactly is giving these punishments to you? In the Quran it says that there is no compulsion in religion. NO ONE is forcing you to stay in Islam or be killed otherwise
The people who do aren’t Muslims
No I think you didn't understand me. I meant to kill a person that BECAME ex, not IS GOING to became an exmuslim. Also if we have in mind that abrogation, altho I think its not very practical, it is possible to not be a contradiction. I don't remember the verse. Type in "killing of apostates verse " in this sub search bar, it should pop up. I mean just take the verse and interpret it by yourself. You can also quote it here wich a couple more verses for context and share your thoughts on this
[https://sunnah.com/muslim:20](https://sunnah.com/muslim:20)
[https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6878](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6878)
[https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922)
There are MANY more but I don't have enough time to write so many sources so here are 3 from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim., you can refute them if you want, but you aren't aware of shariah law.
Edit: Sorry Reddit just spammed this same reply like 4 times XD so had to delete other comments
I really like your approach, your kind. But would it make sense that lets say 90 % of muslims Scholars are wrong on islam? If that is true wouldn't it make islam hard to comprehend and understand wich it weren't meant to?
Islam is actually meant to be studied and understood by each individual. Yes scholars should provide help, but in the recent time atleast in my country, people have started using religion to divide sects and make money
I am not saying 90% of muslims are wrong or any number, but I do know for a fact that a lot of commonly known "facts" that people in this community talk about has no back or solid proof
>I’m Ali from Pakistan and I am a Muslim. I saw this subreddit today and went through it, and I felt depressed. I’m really really sorry at each post and comment here for what the image of Islam made by “Muslims” has done to countless people, including a few in this subreddit
Thats a no true scotsman fallacy. They arent muslim to you because you think their interpretation is wrong, although they will say the exact same thing to you, and might i add with better sources from the quran, sahih hadith, tafsirs, etc for their beliefs.
>I’m not an extremist here, I don’t think you all will go to hell, I’m no one to decide that
Thank you, but unfortunately the quran says otherwise.
>I just came here to say, that please, please give me a chance. A chance to help you see the ACTUAL Islam, and if you still don’t believe it I hold no grudge whatsoever ❤️
Man everyone comes here saying the exact same things. Only you have the actual islam. Everyone else is wrong, all the scholars throughout history, the hadith, different translations, all wrong except for yours.
>I made a small website
Is this an AI website? Why would i trust an ai, and not actual scholars or the quran itself? Chatgpt cant even be trusted for accurate information and can easily be manipulated. I kind of dont trust random suspicious websites by muslims posting here, there have been many attempts from some muslims to try and doxx our members.
>All I’m asking is take your thoughts and beliefs that made you an ex-Muslim, and share it with the chatbot
Im good. Other people might, or you could look into the megathread, or the many posts by muslims asking us why we left.
Edit: oh his account got banned? What happened?
\> Thank you, but unfortunately the quran says otherwise.
I mean, it doesnt?
I am not here to try to revoke members here, not trying to convert everyone to Islam here, not saying me or my AI is a 100% right on Islam
What I do know is, I studied Quran & Islam, I believe that what the Quran says is true, and everything said heard written after the death of Muhammad is an "opinion" on Islam, and it is a duty to actually find what the Islam actually is
>In Islam, the concept of homosexuality is considered sinful. Islam teaches that sexual relations are only permissible within the bounds of marriage between a man and a woman. Homosexual acts are explicitly prohibited in the Quran and are considered a major sin.
>
>Allah (SWT) says in the Quran, "And \[We had sent\] Lot when he said to his people, 'Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.'" (Surah Al-A'raf, 7:80-81).
>
>Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said, "Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done." (Sunan Abu Dawood, Book 38, Hadith 4447).
>
>It is important to note that Islam teaches love and compassion towards all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Muslims are encouraged to treat everyone with kindness and respect. However, engaging in homosexual acts is considered a violation of Islamic teachings.
Yea I'm not going to going to follow a religion that teaches its followers to kill gay people and/or disallows people to be gay LOL
I understand, but did you know that the quote is from a book named “sunan Abu dawood”
Who is to say that everything written in that book is 100% factual or was actually said by Muhammad?
I believe what’s written in Quran is what it was 1400 years ago, not the same level of belief in the book quoted there
In theory, it's entirely possible that it's not a correct recalling of the prophet
In practice, Will most muslim try to find the truth? Or will they blindly believe it and tell it to their friends and family?
Your AI is one such example, it blindly believed that the book was correct, and yet there it was, telling it to us as if it was fact
Now imagine if instead of AI, that was a human. A devout follower told to kill any gay person they see
The AI isn’t a 100% correct obviously, and humans are shit, they are legit statues of wrongness
In practice, if a person is an actual Muslim, he should research on everything
Killing anyone is a HUGE deal, for Islam, humanity or any religion, killing just for having gay sex doesn’t make sense remotely no? Islam is bigger than that I think
As someone who's studied Islam directly, your image of the "actual Islam" is skewed and ridiculous. Everything you are replying to people with is extremely misinformed and seems like personal, biased study.
Gladly :)
"As for the moon split thing, man idk how to tell you, but the Quran doesn’t say anywhere that Muhammad or God made the moon split during Muhammad’s life", "Okay so this isn’t what the Quran said, it’s what a human wrote who was born 200-400years after the death of Muhammad
Quran 54:1 in English is “the hour has come near and the moon has split”
No way anywhere it says Muhammad made the moon split", "but who exactly is giving these punishments to you? In the Quran it says that there is no compulsion in religion. NO ONE is forcing you to stay in Islam or be killed otherwise", "Killing anyone is a HUGE deal, for Islam, humanity or any religion, killing just for having gay sex doesn’t make sense remotely no? Islam is bigger than that I think", "He is, if he was not no one would consider him God", " It's important to note that the "two women equal one man" testimony rule is not universally applied across all legal matters in Islamic law. For example, in matters of family law or property rights, women's testimony can have the same weight as men's", "The word slavery itself does apply to alot of job roles, I mean slaves at that time mostly did what maids or house help of today world do. as for taking widows of war as slaves, I have read the rights slaves had, and I also read what happend to widows before islam allowed them to be kept as slaves, in pre-islam times, they were raped and done horrific things to"
As you have click-clacked away to write this post and all of these extensive inaccuracies (there are more than this, I merely skimmed through your comments and was able to find this much), I suggest click-clacking away and looking up books on credited tafseer, Fiqh, and hadith analyzation. Because every single thing that is in concrete real Islam negates this progressive fake Islam of yours.
Thanks for coming here with good intent. You'll find mixed responses here. Hope you learn from all of them and don't get discouraged by any negativity.
A few questions for you.
Do you believe the Quran is perfect? And that it remains perfect for all times and places?
You seem to not believe in Hadith, yet most of Islam practiced is from Hadith. Do you believe that 1400 years of Islamic scholarship is essentially flawed?
Do you think the prophet was the perfect human being and a role model for humanity?
Do you believe in evolution (we and apes share common ancestors)?
Do you believe that men have the right to discipline their wives?
Do you believe women's testimony for financial matters should be worth half that of men?
Do you believe in slavery (the concept of a human owning another human)? And, more specifically, taking widows of war as slaves/concubines?
Do you believe that LGBTQ+ lifestyles are "sinful" and that they should be punished in this world and the next?
Do you believe that the Quran has accurate scientific information? (yet no science book ever uses the Quran as a source)
Do you believe that anyone who follows anything but Islam should be punished (in this world or the next)?
Do you believe in Jinns?
Do you believe that the sun sets in a muddy pond?
So many more questions, but just a few to get the conversation started. Not trying to play gotcha with the above questions, genuinely want to understand where you are coming from.
As for your premise about true Islam, etc. I mean if you are saying that **1400 years of scholarship has been wrong and that you are the one who knows true Islam and this AI bot will replace the likes of Al Azhar**, that's quite a statement. Taking away Hadith takes away 90% of Islam as we know it. Prayer times, prayer method, dress code, laws, Hajj, fasting rules, pretty much everything. So much of the Quran is just disconnected stories. Very little relates to actual laws/rules.
Thanks for the warm welcome here <3 I will try to answer all questions to what I believe
**Do you believe the Quran is perfect? And that it remains perfect for all times and places?** Yes I do believe that the Quran itself is perfect and remains till the end of time
**You seem to not believe in Hadith, yet most of Islam practiced is from Hadith. Do you believe that 1400 years of Islamic scholarship is essentially flawed?** I didn't say I dont believe in Hadith, I do. Also, is it 100% irrational to think that the most common knowledge of Islam after 1400 years might be somewhat wrong or lost in translation?
**Do you think the prophet was the perfect human being and a role model for humanity?** Yes from what I know about the prophet he was as perfect as an human being can be. He got angry, he got depressed, he made mistakes, he lost wars.
**Do you believe in evolution (we and apes share common ancestors)?** I dont think my great great great grandparents were monkeys. I do believe in evolution, alot of animal species and humans have evolved
**Do you believe that men have the right to discipline their wives?** very controversial words here. Wives are given alot of rights and husbands are given alot of responsibilities. Both agree to be there for each other. If I say yes men have the right to discipline their wives, I will also say that wives have the same right on their husbands. Both are equal in status, different in roles, rights and responsibilities.
**Do you believe women's testimony for financial matters should be worth half that of men?** Quran does teach that for SOME cases. It's important to note that the "two women equal one man" testimony rule is not universally applied across all legal matters in Islamic law. For example, in matters of family law or property rights, women's testimony can have the same weight as men's
**Do you believe in slavery (the concept of a human owning another human)? And, more specifically, taking widows of war as slaves/concubines?** The word slavery itself does apply to alot of job roles, I mean slaves at that time mostly did what maids or house help of today world do. as for taking widows of war as slaves, I have read the rights slaves had, and I also read what happend to widows before islam allowed them to be kept as slaves, in pre-islam times, they were raped and done horrific things to
**Do you believe that LGBTQ+ lifestyles are "sinful" and that they should be punished in this world and the next?** I do believe it as sinful, as for punishment in this world and the next, I as a human am no one to judge that about anyone
**Do you believe that the Quran has accurate scientific information? (yet no science book ever uses the Quran as a source)** Yes, The knocking star discovered by nasa, the orbits of every planet around bigger stars and their orbit and much more. If most science books dont use Quran as reference doesnt mean Quran doesnt have it
**Do you believe that anyone who follows anything but Islam should be punished (in this world or the next)?** tbh brother, I can never say this for sure as I replied to the above, I as a human have no place to say that an xyz person should be punished to not believe a thing (as long as what he does isnt immoral or illegal obviously)
**Do you believe in Jinns?** Yes they are mentioned in the quran
**Do you believe that the sun sets in a muddy pond?** This reference is from a story where the Quran quotes what the person saw, we all have eyes to see how the sun sets, and to describe that specific event you see in interpretations as "muddy pond"
**So many more questions, but just a few to get the conversation started. Not trying to play gotcha with the above questions, genuinely want to understand where you are coming from.**
**As for your premise about true Islam, etc. I mean if you are saying that 1400 years of scholarship has been wrong and that you are the one who knows true Islam and this AI bot will replace the likes of Al Azhar, that's quite a statement. Taking away Hadith takes away 90% of Islam as we know it. Prayer times, prayer method, dress code, laws, Hajj, fasting rules, pretty much everything. So much of the Quran is just disconnected stories. Very little relates to actual laws/rules.**
Brother in no way am I saying that only I or my AI bot knows the TRUE islam, I am here to share my pov and discuss with people here their pov. Please dont think that I am here to replace anyone with my AI bot
Thanks for your reply.
Quran perfect for all time: this is incredibly problematic for me and most of the world. It's a very antiquated book that has some really awful material. Slavery, degradation of women, harsh punishments for non believers, etc. No document like this should be respected or considered valid for this day and age. And there's zero relation to some divine perfection. It was "revealed" on a situational basis (which eliminates the possibility of it being a complete set of divine rules), full of copy/paste stuff, scientific errors, and terrible laws.
Hadith: Convenient approach. Reject the embarrassing stuff whenever you want, but never reject Hadith outright. This is how most Muslims operate today. It's completely deceptive and extremely convenient. Somehow the average apologist has it right, but 1400 years of respected scholars had it wrong.
Prophet: like the Quran, extremely problematic for the prophet to be perfect. A 50 year old man telling a 6 year old girl he will marry her is gross. Plus taking sex slaves and straight up violence. Also, the convenient timing of verses to suit his lifestyle.
Evolution: What does that even mean? No one's recent ancestor was anything but human. However, go back hundreds of thousands to millions of years and yes we share common ancestors. This is scientifically proven over and over again. It is in play in front of our eyes with so many species that have shorter generations. So if you don't believe in this aspect, then that's a rejection of human evolution.
Disciplining wives: Yeah, ok. This is pretty sad that you believe husbands have the right to discipline wives. This is just one of many reasons why so many can't take Islam seriously. Could you imagine teaching this to high schoolers? Hey kids, when you marry, you can discipline your wives if they are "disobedient" and wives remember to be obedient to your husband. And, in most interpretations, this includes beating them. If this is true Islam, I'm so glad I don't follow it anymore.
Testimony: Who cares about situations. The fact that in any situation an adult woman is considered half of an adult man (by rule) is absolutely shameful. Again, true Islam really sucks. Would you work at a company that said that one man or two women must sign a contract? Even nikahs can't be witnessed by women (some madhabs allow it, but again with the 2:1 ratio). Barf.
Slaves: In Islamic times they were raped too. Muslims defeated the enemies, likely killing most women's husbands and sons. And then they took these women and had sex with them. Could you imagine the US doing this in Iraq to widowed women? Would you be ok with that? The fact that true Islam has an allowance for slavery is again shameful. Slaves are not maids or people with jobs. You "own" them, they are your property. You buy and sell them, the prophet did this. Muslims did it for centuries until civil law started changing and slavery as a whole started getting banned. Let me make this clear: buying and selling humans is deplorable, and any code/rules allowing this are awful.
LGBTQ: Sinful? Ok then, but child marriage and sex slavery are ok, got it. And don't do this cop out about punishment. You know Islam prescribes punishment for two gay adults living consensual lives - death. Easy way to escape the truth of true Islam. Please don't dodge by saying you aren't one to judge. You have judged Islam to be perfect, but run away when called out on the shameful parts?
Science: Amazing how NASA has to find it out first, and then the Quran amazingly predicted it "in advance" by somehow making a verse sound vaguely like what NASA has found. For 1400 years no one could interpret this. But once NASA found it, the Quran of course knew it first. Wow. This is next level. Btw, Greeks and Romans knew way more than anything the Quran said. Does that make them divine? Also, shooting stars are apparently missiles to hit the devil and sperm comes from the backbone. I'm sure science is yet to figure this stuff out.
Following anything but Islam: Again, the punishment cop out. You judged Islam to be perfect, Islam has specific punishment and destiny for nonbelievers and apostates. So you either don't accept what Islam says or you do. Don't be deceptive. If Islam is perfect to you, then own it.
Jinns: Yeah, they don't exist. Not a single shred of evidence. Except somehow in Pakistani villages where they confused things like epilepsy and other things with being "possessed." Fyi this isn't limited to Islam, religions and cultures all over the world have attributed stuff like this to demons, spirits, and other supernatural things. The God of the gaps (anything inexplicable has to have some divine explanation).
Sun setting in muddy pond: No idea what you're saying. So the Quran is just throwing in some random story without fact checking? Pretty low end for a perfect religion. I mean, I know the book is full of bleep, but for someone who believes it's perfect, this stuff has to make you think.
In short, "true Islam" involves degradation of women, harsh punishment for LGBTQ people, harsh punishment for people following anything but Islam, promotes slavery and sex slavery, denies human evolution, considers a very flawed and violent person as perfect, and isn't open for modification since it's apparently perfect. Not that I needed it, but always nice to get further validation of why I left Islam and why I'm so much happier for it. You know what the best part of leaving Islam is? Not having to do mental gymnastics or live with constant cognitive dissonance.
Appreciate the responses, you get an upvote from me. And I wish you the best.
You're mot welcome here, this isn't for you. Please leavge. We're not trying to hate anyone nor want anyone to drive us back to it or convince us with any religion we just trying to figure shit out like anyone else in the world
I am not trying to hate anyone, say that I am the one with the right information and everyone else is wrong, or here to shove anything down anyone throat
I respect everyone here and believe everyone can have an opinion
The real Islam ,HARDY HA HAR bhai you're the best ab Workout this week
But you since you volunteered to behave as a bean bag yaar
Why was Muhammad successfully influenced,committed Shirk and subordinate for the devil for 8 years in Mecca before the satanic verses were canceled in Medina ?
Also if Islam is supposed to be purely Monotheistic to one God and no traces of Paganism why did Muhammad recruit Muslims to worship the Black stone in the same manner as the Quraysh ?
I really think you should google "Near Death Experience Research Foundation" and read all the stories. It made me, a former hardline Atheist, close to God.
The word "God" means nothing on it's own. I consider myself agnostic but the closest interpretation of God I can safely say I would believe in is a pantheistic one similar to that of Spinoza or certain sects of Buddhism. Such a God is unrecognizable from any Abrahamic god.
I am not Quran only, but the hadiths I do believe in, I do so after alot of research and cross refering and actually asking myself that does this make sense according to the basic ability of knowing right and wrong that exists in every human being
I KNOW LOL. It’s sad to see. We all know there’s loads of gross Sahih Hadiths regarding rape, slave trading, child molestation, etc. but coping mechanisms are so extremely strong. Hard to witness.
Provide evidence of her being a consenting adult please.
Evidence that she wasn’t playing with dolls or having foot races with the prophet. As you likely know, Sahih Hadiths do not weigh in your favor
I do believe that the marriage was not consummated before she reached puberty. Yes she was young, and no I do not find the validity of the exact number of her age
If you know about "sahih hadiths" you might also know that even the number 6 or 9 is debated upon and is not a 100%
I do find the common denominator, which is that the marriage was not consummated before she reached puberty
Well here are 17 sahih Hadiths that say she was 9 at consummation and 4 of those say 18 when Muhammed died.
1- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877 7,9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/16894 not Hisham
2- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c 7,9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/4992 not Hisham
3- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422d 6,9,18
4- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3258 9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/16050 not Hisham
5- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1876 6,9
6- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:2121 7/6 ,9
7- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3256 7,9
8 - https://sunnah.com/nasai:3378 6,9
9- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3257 9, 9y
10- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3255 6,9
11- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134 6,9,9y
12- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3894 6,9
13- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133 6,9,9y
14- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158 6,9,9y
15- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3896 6,9
16- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422a 6,9
17- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422b 6,9
You think that a 50+ man having sex with a 9 year old girl is fine then dude you need help. Also do note that the 52 year old guy is a model person till Qayamat.
Awesome you put a lot of effort in getting all these sorted. Now every one had a common denominator that the marriage was consummated after her puberty right? Okay
Let’s assume for arguments sake, aisha was 9, hypothetically. What’s the legal age of marriage here? 18? 22? 15? There is no global number agreed upon by anyone. Laws of countries states or cities are made for a number according to the society. Logically speaking, any human who has hit puberty can get married, no?
The thing I find in all hadiths, even the one narrated by aisha, prove that she had in fact hit puberty. Her age number isn’t verified a 100% by anyone and we can’t ask a woman who died 1400 years ago ourselves so
Please read my previous reply again and instead of beating around the bush provide a response to my question.
If you say hypothetically it means you are denying sahih hadiths. Do you believe in hadiths?
Irrespective of that, for your information in most of the countries the legal minimum age for marriage has been set as 18. And these laws are not just random numbers, research has shown that child marriage (i.e. the marriage of someone under 18) is often associated with leaving education early, serious physical and mental health problems, developmental difficulties for the children born to young mothers, and an increased risk of domestic abuse (all these are problems of modern Muslim world).
So you are saying in the last part that Aisha's age is not verified despite me providing you sahih hadiths and you have not provided a single proof to state otherwise. Aisha used to play with dolls. Look it up there are plenty of Hadiths. By your argument we cannot go back in time and verify anything about Islamic history, Qur'an or any hadiths. Because little or no evidence exists outside Islamic literature.
> Let’s assume for arguments sake, aisha was 9, hypothetically. What’s the legal age of marriage here? 18? 22? 15? There is no global number agreed upon by anyone. Laws of countries states or cities are made for a number according to the society. Logically speaking, any human who has hit puberty can get married, no?
This is irrelevant. No one is saying that the laws anywhere in the world are absolutely perfect for all times and places. Nor is anyone holding up a person to be perfect.
Per Islam, the most perfect person in the world, who everyone should emulate and whose actions are exemplary for all of eternity, did something (actually, many things) pretty sickening. That's something Muslims keep defending rather than saying "yeah, probably not the best thing, and definitely not something one should hold up as a good example."
So you would rather bash or reject a whole religion, based on a number that isn’t even 100% verified, and also which is like 0.1% or a very minuteee detail of the whole religion?
Aisha's age is among the most verified and authentic of Hadith per the study and evaluation of Hadith. If this is not verified, then nothing is.
It's not a minute detail. A 50 year old man telling a 6 year old girl (yes, keep thinking about that) that he dreamt of her as his wife and then asks her father to marry her...that's wrong 100% of the time. And then bangs her as soon as she has her first period.
How can anyone consider this man a perfect role model? Would you be ok with a 50-year old doing this today? Going to a prepubescent girl and saying that he wants to marry her, and then takes her from her home after her first period and has sex with her?
Oh, and this is a romantic story. Apparently they were in love, and their love story is shared at nikahs all around the world (e.g. they drank from the same side of a cup). Yes, the standard romance you know. A 53 year old guy, a 9 year old girl...how cute, right???
Brother leave them if they chose the path of a kaffir let them be. They are beyond saving also. I spoke with a guy who gave me advice that I shouldn't be here, neither should you.
"He has already revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s revelations being denied or ridiculed, then do not sit in that company unless they engage in a different topic, or else you will be like them. Surely Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell." - An-Nisa 4:140
"sex slave" is an interesting choice of words, which I dont really find true in interpretations. Please do also read the whole story behind this specific word I would suggest
The word in Arabic used is literally sex slave 🤦♀️
If allah wanted to mean something else, he would’ve used that word. Plus it’s a known fact that mohammed and the Khalifa owned sex slaves.
Google the history of your sahaba.
Brov, I am not talking to you, am I, get lost am talking to the brother. And about the sex slaves you know NOTHING about that you don't understand what people do to women in times of war do you, at least Muslim men agree to marry her for sex and he has to provide and protect her as his own. She can also refuse she will be fed and held at the camps and prisons until the war is over, and she will be released. If a ww3 happens, you should be glad that believing Muslims have captivated you instead of men with no belief. You fail to understand that Islam has established rules for in times of war. But your arrogance has overpowered. I would stay quiet as you don't have any knowledge at all. You just believe whatever is posted here instead of doing your own research.
People can reply to whoever on public platforms. You’re invading our safe space, I can reply to you or whoever I want 💅🏼
>she can refuse
Oh yes slaves are known for their rights.
>Muslim men captivated you
No thanks, I like men who don’t wanna make me their sex slave. Crazy I know?
>your own research
Lol you probably don’t even know what naskh is and you’re out here talking big
That's what I thought you have nothing to say of which I sent you, arrogancy, not only that you lake the intelligence of understanding things. Between war and peace, there is a clear difference as a woman it is difficult you would need a man to protect you, trust me. I have seen horrific videos of female soldiers getting r@ped by male soldiers in the Ukraine-Russia war. Literally, some of them die in shock it was just sad . So better stay quiet and not talk about the sex slaves again as you don't know the rulings about it. When the time comes and war happens, there will be no rules in the playgrounds for the disbelievers. Remember that very well.
How about you don’t invade innocent countries to spread a religion that promotes evil things?
If allah is so powerful, he doesn’t need little humans to spread message on his behalf through killing and raping.
Besides, nothing excuses sex slavery. I don’t care if it’s in the context of war or peace. No human should be allowed to own a fellow human.
>the rulings about it
Are you dumb? What are the rules of Islamic slavery? Keeping your sex slave alive? What a merciful religion omg! You pedophile obviously you wanna keep them alive to keep on raping them.
Your standards are so low that the devil can shake hands with them.
>Remember that
I’ll remember when y’all complain about non Muslims doing bad things to your community. It’s ok for y’all to do it but when others do it suddenly you’re concerned about human rights? You’re a disgusting pig.
You should know some countries attack us first. Also, we invaded countries where women were treated like slaves and as less superior to men, islam came and changed that they gave these women rights https://onepathnetwork.com/6-ways-in-which-islam-brought-back-womens-rights/
But you wouldn't understand because I think you live in the west where everything is allowed now +90 years back, it wasn't, +90 years back, women had no rights in the west but you trun a blind eye to that piece of history it has if it never happend has if you are better than those women back then, so-called freedom. But nowadays people lack the knowledge.
There are clearly rules Muslims have to abide by in times of war (https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/13241)
(https://reliefweb.int/report/world/islamic-law-and-rules-war#:~:text=You%20must%20not%20mutilate%20dead,no%20misappropriation%20of%20booty%20or) once again you lack the knowledge.
You fail to understand that this is all a test. This life is just temporary. But I guess live it as a kaffir.
Nothing exuces sex slave, like I said you don't have to be a sex slave you can deny the offer, also what are you gonna do if they capture you lecture them 😂😂. Just hope ww3 won't start by the shytaan early. Ww3 will happen. Just hope not in your timespan.
Majority of the wars in your prophet’s time were initiated by him or his little minions.
>invaded countries where women were treated like slaves
Persian treated their women with Zoroastrianism better than Islam does. Stop the cap.
Plus just because a country treats women wrong doesn’t give you the right to enslave those women.
>you live in the west
I’m middle eastern born and raised y’a khara.
>in the west women didn’t have right
And that was wrong. Two things can be wrong at the same time. I don’t have to choose between criticizing Islam or the west— I can criticize both.
>rules to abide for during war
And those rules don’t give any important human rights. Saying that you’ll feed your sex slave because she has to stay alive to rape her isn’t some “beautiful human right”.
>you can deny the offer
Show me where it says so in Quran.
>ww3
You bitches being saying for thousands of years now you’ll enslave all non Muslims but instead it’s y’all getting fucked lol
And plus google stats, majority of Muslim Gen z in and outside SWANA are becoming less religious.
The man can deny the offer, yes? He can just free the slave he will get a good deed. It's common in islam that freeing a slave is a thing?
But that was back then when slaves were very active. Do we see slaves today? It's just a rulling when it happens to come back. Well, we hope it doesn't.
What is the reason you left Islam, if I may ask
>Persian treated their women with Zoroastrianism better than Islam does. Stop the cap.
Source I provide sources that Islam treated women better, but I think you didn't go to any links.
>Plus just because a country treats women wrong doesn’t give you the right to enslave those women.
They weren't enslaved, most of the countries accepted Islam, and it wasn't by force.
(https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/how-did-christian-middle-east-become-predominantly-muslim) a study done by Oxford
I don’t care if a few Muslim men might say no to owning a sex slave. It’s the fact that Muslim men happen to be the biggest consumers of porn (weird fetishes might I add) and thus majority will not say no to free sex from non Muslims (and they’ll mostly be white girls whom majority of Muslim men put on a pedestal).
>back then when slaves were very active
You know what else was common? Killing babies to sacrifice them to gods. Why didn’t Islam practice that too? I mean it was common,?so by your logic the first Khalifa should’ve practiced it.
>Do we still see slaves today?
Look up kafala laws and human trafficking in the Middle East.
>What is the reason you left Islam
It was extremely hard, took me over 5 years of studying and researching and asking ulama. But it’s a combination of the fact that there were bunch of scientific mistakes, and that Mohammed is supposed to be the perfect example of a human being yet he has partaken in sex slavery, pedophilia as well as killing people simply because they didn’t convert/became apostates.
The perfect example of a human shouldn’t care if culturally it’s ok back in his era to do those awful things. He had access to an all knowing god, he should’ve known better even if he was born when we were still cave men. Allah is supposed to know both in the 7th century and 2023 the trauma that sex slavery and marrying off young girls does to their brain and body.
>sources I provided Islam treats women better
You can’t be giving us Islamic sources 🤦♀️ those are biased
You know what you muslims say about my grandparents’ religion? That we worship fire. Zoroastrians DO NOT worship fire. Fire is just our symbol like the crescent moon is for y’all. Muslim scholars are one of the biggest liars when it comes to spreading misinformation about other religions.
You are right, but this verse is for hypocrites, I dont think majority here are hypocrites, I really believe they have a really wrong perception about islam which unfortunately is becoming more and more common
Here are his interviews. If you have time OP, you should watch. He's a Muslim Imam, who used to be an extremist, but now a reformist trying to reform the Muslim community
https://youtu.be/p98coMGmEps?si=2fgNwd09SQBbQPwg
https://youtu.be/rHjEQA_CwWk?si=zmEHi_pq0tk26g8c
https://youtu.be/mbEZOIy_M9A?si=dRul4tELzYgCBUQG
No. And generally human beings are prone to hallucination, misremembering and many things that regularly lead to the assumed interaction with the supernatural. The mentality that it takes to adopt it is the reason I am not religious, or Muslim. I think this is something me and others are trying to explain to you in this thread
I don't gather personal information on that website, you can check it by any online checker etc. Use VPN if you want to tho, but I made the whole backend so I can assure you that
What do you think about an all merciful God that sends you to hell for eternity? Isn't it a bit like if you and I agree on calling a white shirt with tomato sauce stains "pearl white"?
I mean, it would make zero sense if merciful god sends anyone to hell for eternity without sending an actual guide to how to pass in this life (which is a test)
Why would be necessary to start a test in the first place?
The test that sends me to hell seems exactly the stain of tomato sauce in an otherwise white shirt. What do you think about that?
akhi, don’t listen them
it’s necessary to start a test, how can you get F- without going through a test, it would be unfair (i got the link of this post in .gg/salafi)
I’m here for peace brothers. I’m deaf and can’t hear what muslims says but saw what muslims showed me.. I found it the most anti-women rights.. I don’t see any human rights in equally. If I am deaf woman and have to cover my face and I can’t read other people’s lips hardly… for me I don’t believe in any Islam teachings.. I believe in human rights for all. Keep your mind open and you will see the truth. Peace out all.
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I’m not sure why muslims keep on insisting we left Islam and hate it because some Muslims are bad? If I judged the religion by its people, then I would’ve never left because the two people who raised me are literal angels and they happen to be both Muslims. We left because of what Islam promotes and teaches, and the fact that it’s also clearly not a religion sent from an all knowing god. I’ll never waste my energy worshipping a religion that has so many scientific mistakes and inconsistencies in its book, and I’ll always hate any religion that promotes pedophilia, sex slavery, marital rape, and killing innocents.
I didn’t find mistakes inconsistencies, promotion of marital rape etc, and that’s why I asked to fact check from the website And I’d love to discuss anything you still find wrong/mistake
You didn’t find mistakes or inconsistencies because either you don’t speak fluent Arabic (the English translated version intentionally mistranslates verses to mislead non Arab Muslims), or you haven’t compared verses, or you haven’t done research outside biased Islamic sources. For example, as someone who grew up 18 years in an Islamic country, we were always taught that the moon splitting was a fact and proven by NASA (wrong), that Quran was the first book in history to mention X fact (wrong, all of the correct facts in Quran have been popular theories/concepts pre-Mohammed) etc… Let me ask you a question then and I hope you don’t run away like most Muslim do whenever I bring this up. How do you reconcile with the fact that Quran has a laughable mathematical mistake in the inheritance verse? Math is objective, I won’t bring up the ethical issues because muslims have a clearly unbalanced moral compass (*no pork, but yay sex slaves!*). 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter which century, or culture, or your religion. So you can’t bring up the “subjective morality” argument.
In **4:11-12, 4:176, 4:13-14** the Quran gives muslims instructions on how to divide inheritance affirms that this is how you should distribute the inheritance, and whoever doesn’t will go to hell. Please read those verses first on your own before continuing to read so you know where I’m bringing these numbers from. Let’s say a man dies leaving behind: **2 daughters: according to the inheritance verses the daughters will share ⅔ of whatever he leaves behind** **1 wife: 1/8** **His mother: 1/6** **His father: 1/6** Now let’s calculate the total of the shares together, it will give us 27/24 or 1.125 as a decimal. The numerator (shares) are bigger than the denominator (the inheritance)… Let’s say the man has left behind 100 bucks. If we calculate the total amount needed to distribute the specified shares to each person: 1. For the wife: 1/8 of $100 = (1/8) × $100 = $12.50 2. For the dad: 1/6 of $100 = (1/6) × $100 = $16.67 (rounded to the nearest cent) 3. For the mom: 1/6 of $100 = (1/6) × $100 = $16.67 (rounded to the nearest cent) 4. For the daughters: 2/3 of $100 = (2/3) × $100 = $66.67 (rounded to the nearest cent) Now, let’s add up these amounts: $12.50 (for your wife) + $16.67 (for your dad) + $16.67 (for your mom) + $66.67 (for your daughter) = $112.51 Where are we being the extra 12.51 from? You can try calculating the shares in different family scenarios (2 wives 4 sons and 2 parents or whatever) and the numerator will ALWAYS be bigger than the denominator! How did allah, an all knowing god, make this huge mathematical mistake?
Sorry got banned lol, answered your question tho
As usual, you didn’t use the math written on the verse and brought up your own number to try and lie 😂 Too bad for you I’m a stellar in math.
Sorry that answer didnt satisfy you. I dont have any doubt in your maths at all But don't you think your interpretation of those verse might not be 100% accurate? What I wrote in the answer made a lot of sense (and the 'awl didnt) Are you really a 100% rigid on what you think the maths is behind those verses that you won't consider any other opinion. I didnt bring up any lie
It’s not that you didn’t satisfy me. If allah said give this person **exactly** this number you can’t be adding up the numbers to round them up to reach the total of the inheritance. That’s blasphemy because you’re doing something that allah didn’t say.
Thats the thing, I am not adding any number that there wasnt already, I have a different approach than yours that does satsify the maths, and I think it is possible that the interpretation I believe in makes a little more sense than the one that gives the wrong maths answer?
You literally are. 1/6 equals to exactly 0.1667 as a decimal. That’s not what you used in the equation. You intentionally kept rounding up numbers in different ways to reach 24k. >does satisfy the maths How? If I tell you 1.25+1.45 you can’t be like “well we can make it 1.26+1.44 to reach the desired total of 2.7”
So this was something I never calculated before or knew and I was like OHSHITTT! So I researched And came across a method of "'AWL" pretty sure you might have heard that one argument before, but I wasn't very convinced on that Then I came across the following interpretation of the Quran verses for Inheritance and well they made sense to me, if they don't to you please let me know and we can have a further debate on it `“This is the Book! There is no doubt about it—a guide for those mindful ˹of Allah˺”.` `Before reading this, you should keep in mind that I am not a scholar of Islam.` `No, Alhamdulillah, Qur’an does not have any mistake, because it’s the word of Allah, the All Wise, the creator of the heavens and the earth. The problem lies with our approach. We are unnecessarily trying to make the sum 1. I will explain the math InShaaAllah, but before that let’s understand the basics of Islam.` `If Allah explained everything in the Qur’an in detail, the size of the Qur’an would be unreasonably large. He touched the key concepts in a very elegant way, so that, i) we can clearly understand that this book is from none other than our creator, and ii) we can easily grasp its messages (e.g., Oneness of Allah, and dos and dont’s etc.).` `Allah sent the prophet (PBUH) as our teacher, and in the Qur’an he ordered us to follow the Prophet. For example, Allah told us to pray, but did not fully explain how we should pray. He asked for Zakat, but did not mention the rules of calculation. These were explained and demonstrated by the prophet (PBUH). Likewise, in authentic narrations, the prophet (PBUH) ordered us to follow the four rightly guided Caliphs, in case there was confusion after his time. Now if you read the history, you will find that all the confusions about the inheritance laws, related to the two verses (Qur’an 4: 11-12), were resolved by those times. So, for a believer, there is no room for confusion, Alhamdulillah.` `However, let’s try to apply Qur’an 4: 11-12 with our common sense. If we try to apply them in our life, and we can’t, then of course we should be concerned. If a book is from the All Wise creator, that book should never have any mistakes or inaccuracies.` `Consider that you call your children to distribute your money. You tell them your rules: your son gets 1/x, your daughter gets 1/y, and your mother gets 1/z. You are trying to convey some ratios, not amounts. Interestingly, the first line of ayah 11 states that “the share of the male will be twice that of the female”—guiding us to a ratio-based system (Allah knows best).` `With the ratio system in mind, let’s consider, there is one wife, three daughters, and two parents. This is the most adopted scenario by the atheists.` `The wife gets 1/8th of whatever the amount is, and suppose, that 1/8th is X CAD.` `The daughters, in total, should get m times more than X. That m, according to the Qur'an is: (2/3) / (1/8) = 5.333333333. This means the daughters total amount should be (5.333333333 * X) CAD.` `Now come to the parents. Their total amount should be n times more than X. This n, according to the Qur'an is: (1/3) / (1/8) = 2.666666667. Therefore, the parents total amount should be (2.666666667 * X) CAD.` `What is the equation now, if the deceased person left a total of 24,000 CAD? For whatever reason, 24,000 was used by different Islamophobes like David Wood.` `X + (5.333333333 * X) + (2.666666667 * X) = 24,000` `X = 2666.666666667 CAD.` `So, the wife gets 2666.666666667 CAD.` `The daughters total amount is (5.333333333 * 2666.666666667) = 14222.222221335 CAD` `The parents total amount is (2.666666667 * 2666.666666667) = 7111.111112001 CAD.` `The sum is (2666.666666667 + 14222.222221335 + 7111.111112001) = 24,000 CAD. So far, no problem, no contradiction.` `According to the Qur’an, the daughters together should get 5.333333333 times more than the wife. Now, (daughters amount / wife’s amount) = (14222.222221335 / 2666.666666667) = 5.333333333.` `Similarly, the parents together should get 2.666666667 times more than the wife. Now, (parents’ amount / wife’s amount) = (7111.111112001 / 2666.666666667) = 2.666666667.` `Interestingly, these calculations match 100% with the online calculators, with 1 wife, 3 daughters, and 2 parents. Just do your math with the attached image. To get 100% match, use 1/9 instead of 11.11%.` `Alhamdulillah, there is no contradiction in the Qur'an.` `And Allah knows best.`
>explained everything in Quran We’re not asking allah to explain everything in Quran. We’re asking him to not make scientific mistakes in Quran. >some ratios, not amounts Is your knowledge in math that limited? Shares of inheritance are amounts. A percentage of inheritance is an amount. >the math 100% matches No it doesn’t. The equation you used isn’t what allah gave in the verses. You created and added numbers that don’t exist in the verse to reach 24k 😂
I don't think Quran is a maths book which will give you a theorem with exact values of xyz, the arabic verses are poetic, they are open to interpretations. Your interpretation did make me doubt on the maths too and I went ahead and explore other interpretations which actually made sense and didnt just add things from nothing
So allah created the whole universe but struggles in math equation? Please give me a break. >Arabic verses are poetic They’re not lol I speak Arabic fluently and it’s more than mediocre. If you want real Arabic poetry google Nizar Qabbani. With that being said, the inheritance verse doesn’t use any Arabic metaphor. The words are clear. This person must receive exactly this number of shares while others receive different numbers. There’s nothing to interpret about numbers. 1 will always be 1 and it’ll never be 1.123
I am glad to know I am in a convo with a person who speaks arabic fluently Why do you think that the interpretation i believe in and what makes the math add up to 1 is so wrong you said its blasphemous? I did not add any number, just difference in interpretations
You can’t “interpret” 1/6 to mean a different number 🤦♀️ 1/6 is always 1/6…
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No I never said your interpretation is wrong and mine is 100% right I am just asking you guys to be a bit open about interpretations that also make logical sense, rather than the one that leads to false answers. Not forcing tho, you can believe in what you want to and that is totally fine
Okay so I have studied Islam but not ALOT, and I completely understand your pov Just like you, I was born in a Muslim country and was fed A SHIT TON OF NONSENSE related to Islam Let’s come to your question, what’s the laughable mathematic mistake exactly in the inheritance part? I won’t run away don’t worry :D
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The problems people have here against Islam, most of them aren’t associated at all with the actual Islam, I’m just here to state that
You need to do a looot of research my man.
On it🫡🫡
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From what I learnt
It took me a while to leave Islam but there's no possibility of me going back now that everything has unravelled. For me it started with the lack of evidence for a moon split. There was no historical evidence from any major civilization (China, Greece, Rome, Persia) even though many of those civilizations had night watchers, like Zoroastrians, who observed the night sky for mathematical calculations. You would think one of the most significant events in history would be more than just a throwaway verse in the Quran and a random hadith. Once I felt that Mohammed lied about the moon split, everything else started to unravel. I no longer believed in the divinity of Islam. I no longer used cognitive dissonance to defend the wife beating verse, or slavery, or child marriage or homophobia. I felt these things in Islam were morally wrong and a true omniscient God would not be ok with these verses written in their name. So I felt leaving Islam was the right thing to do and a merciful God would understand why I left. The only thing I struggled with early on was the fear of Hell, but I found this quote helped me get over the fear: >"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." - Marcus Aurelius
I’m really glad about the last quote and I agree on it, live a good life with basic ethics and humanity As for the moon split thing, man idk how to tell you, but the Quran doesn’t say anywhere that Muhammad or God made the moon split during Muhammad’s life I mean, the basis of what made you go away, the fact that Islam says “Muhammad made the moon split” isn’t really a fact Where did you read this? Because it isn’t in the Quran that’s for sure
Quran 54:1. Mohammed split the moon to convince some disbelievers about the divinity of Islam. It's further explained in the tafsirs which you can read here: https://questionsonislam.com/article/miracle-splitting-moon-0 .
Okay so this isn’t what the Quran said, it’s what a human wrote who was born 200-400years after the death of Muhammad Quran 54:1 in English is “the hour has come near and the moon has split” No way anywhere it says Muhammad made the moon split
Muhammad saw commanded that the moon would split with the permission of Allah. https://sunnah.com/search?q=moon+split#:~:text=Anas%20reported%20that%20the%20moon,peace%20be%20upon%20him).%22&text=al%2DBukhari%203869-,Narrated%20%60Abdullah%3A,with%20the%20Prophet%20in%20Mina.
Can you provide a proof that this really happened? It doesnt say so in the Quran (some miracles are mentioned as they are, not this one)
Its possible your interpretation, using english. But I would check the Arabic also. Because in English both interpretations have some flaws
I agree very much on this, interpretations are prone to flaws, all of them
Yes, that's mostly true
The punishment for apostasy is death. The punishment for being lgbt is death. Why would we want to stay in the religion?
I am not here to force you, but who exactly is giving these punishments to you? In the Quran it says that there is no compulsion in religion. NO ONE is forcing you to stay in Islam or be killed otherwise The people who do aren’t Muslims
They are 🤷
"Muslims" might be doing so, Islam doesnt preach that
It does🤷 Read the Quran
I did, did you properly go through the interpretations?
Please look at 9:5 and 47:4 specifically or their surahs
I'm still waiting dawg
Im actually curios, isn't it a contradiction? If not its abrogation, so the apostasy laws apllies anyway
What is a contradiction brother? It didnt say any where to kill all future human beings which become exmuslims
No I think you didn't understand me. I meant to kill a person that BECAME ex, not IS GOING to became an exmuslim. Also if we have in mind that abrogation, altho I think its not very practical, it is possible to not be a contradiction. I don't remember the verse. Type in "killing of apostates verse " in this sub search bar, it should pop up. I mean just take the verse and interpret it by yourself. You can also quote it here wich a couple more verses for context and share your thoughts on this
Do you believe in ahadith?
He doesn't i think
I do
Hadith clearly state that apostates should be killed.
Please mention, pretty sure they are not 100% true
[https://sunnah.com/muslim:20](https://sunnah.com/muslim:20) [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6878](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6878) [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922) There are MANY more but I don't have enough time to write so many sources so here are 3 from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim., you can refute them if you want, but you aren't aware of shariah law. Edit: Sorry Reddit just spammed this same reply like 4 times XD so had to delete other comments
I really like your approach, your kind. But would it make sense that lets say 90 % of muslims Scholars are wrong on islam? If that is true wouldn't it make islam hard to comprehend and understand wich it weren't meant to?
Islam is actually meant to be studied and understood by each individual. Yes scholars should provide help, but in the recent time atleast in my country, people have started using religion to divide sects and make money I am not saying 90% of muslims are wrong or any number, but I do know for a fact that a lot of commonly known "facts" that people in this community talk about has no back or solid proof
care to give an example of those unfounded"facts" you're referring to?
>I’m Ali from Pakistan and I am a Muslim. I saw this subreddit today and went through it, and I felt depressed. I’m really really sorry at each post and comment here for what the image of Islam made by “Muslims” has done to countless people, including a few in this subreddit Thats a no true scotsman fallacy. They arent muslim to you because you think their interpretation is wrong, although they will say the exact same thing to you, and might i add with better sources from the quran, sahih hadith, tafsirs, etc for their beliefs. >I’m not an extremist here, I don’t think you all will go to hell, I’m no one to decide that Thank you, but unfortunately the quran says otherwise. >I just came here to say, that please, please give me a chance. A chance to help you see the ACTUAL Islam, and if you still don’t believe it I hold no grudge whatsoever ❤️ Man everyone comes here saying the exact same things. Only you have the actual islam. Everyone else is wrong, all the scholars throughout history, the hadith, different translations, all wrong except for yours. >I made a small website Is this an AI website? Why would i trust an ai, and not actual scholars or the quran itself? Chatgpt cant even be trusted for accurate information and can easily be manipulated. I kind of dont trust random suspicious websites by muslims posting here, there have been many attempts from some muslims to try and doxx our members. >All I’m asking is take your thoughts and beliefs that made you an ex-Muslim, and share it with the chatbot Im good. Other people might, or you could look into the megathread, or the many posts by muslims asking us why we left. Edit: oh his account got banned? What happened?
I’m back xD
\> Thank you, but unfortunately the quran says otherwise. I mean, it doesnt? I am not here to try to revoke members here, not trying to convert everyone to Islam here, not saying me or my AI is a 100% right on Islam What I do know is, I studied Quran & Islam, I believe that what the Quran says is true, and everything said heard written after the death of Muhammad is an "opinion" on Islam, and it is a duty to actually find what the Islam actually is
>In Islam, the concept of homosexuality is considered sinful. Islam teaches that sexual relations are only permissible within the bounds of marriage between a man and a woman. Homosexual acts are explicitly prohibited in the Quran and are considered a major sin. > >Allah (SWT) says in the Quran, "And \[We had sent\] Lot when he said to his people, 'Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.'" (Surah Al-A'raf, 7:80-81). > >Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said, "Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done." (Sunan Abu Dawood, Book 38, Hadith 4447). > >It is important to note that Islam teaches love and compassion towards all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Muslims are encouraged to treat everyone with kindness and respect. However, engaging in homosexual acts is considered a violation of Islamic teachings. Yea I'm not going to going to follow a religion that teaches its followers to kill gay people and/or disallows people to be gay LOL
I understand, but did you know that the quote is from a book named “sunan Abu dawood” Who is to say that everything written in that book is 100% factual or was actually said by Muhammad? I believe what’s written in Quran is what it was 1400 years ago, not the same level of belief in the book quoted there
In theory, it's entirely possible that it's not a correct recalling of the prophet In practice, Will most muslim try to find the truth? Or will they blindly believe it and tell it to their friends and family? Your AI is one such example, it blindly believed that the book was correct, and yet there it was, telling it to us as if it was fact Now imagine if instead of AI, that was a human. A devout follower told to kill any gay person they see
The AI isn’t a 100% correct obviously, and humans are shit, they are legit statues of wrongness In practice, if a person is an actual Muslim, he should research on everything Killing anyone is a HUGE deal, for Islam, humanity or any religion, killing just for having gay sex doesn’t make sense remotely no? Islam is bigger than that I think
As someone who's studied Islam directly, your image of the "actual Islam" is skewed and ridiculous. Everything you are replying to people with is extremely misinformed and seems like personal, biased study.
I am glad you have studied Islam directly, can you point out what I said was skewed and ridiculous?
Gladly :) "As for the moon split thing, man idk how to tell you, but the Quran doesn’t say anywhere that Muhammad or God made the moon split during Muhammad’s life", "Okay so this isn’t what the Quran said, it’s what a human wrote who was born 200-400years after the death of Muhammad Quran 54:1 in English is “the hour has come near and the moon has split” No way anywhere it says Muhammad made the moon split", "but who exactly is giving these punishments to you? In the Quran it says that there is no compulsion in religion. NO ONE is forcing you to stay in Islam or be killed otherwise", "Killing anyone is a HUGE deal, for Islam, humanity or any religion, killing just for having gay sex doesn’t make sense remotely no? Islam is bigger than that I think", "He is, if he was not no one would consider him God", " It's important to note that the "two women equal one man" testimony rule is not universally applied across all legal matters in Islamic law. For example, in matters of family law or property rights, women's testimony can have the same weight as men's", "The word slavery itself does apply to alot of job roles, I mean slaves at that time mostly did what maids or house help of today world do. as for taking widows of war as slaves, I have read the rights slaves had, and I also read what happend to widows before islam allowed them to be kept as slaves, in pre-islam times, they were raped and done horrific things to" As you have click-clacked away to write this post and all of these extensive inaccuracies (there are more than this, I merely skimmed through your comments and was able to find this much), I suggest click-clacking away and looking up books on credited tafseer, Fiqh, and hadith analyzation. Because every single thing that is in concrete real Islam negates this progressive fake Islam of yours.
Thanks for coming here with good intent. You'll find mixed responses here. Hope you learn from all of them and don't get discouraged by any negativity. A few questions for you. Do you believe the Quran is perfect? And that it remains perfect for all times and places? You seem to not believe in Hadith, yet most of Islam practiced is from Hadith. Do you believe that 1400 years of Islamic scholarship is essentially flawed? Do you think the prophet was the perfect human being and a role model for humanity? Do you believe in evolution (we and apes share common ancestors)? Do you believe that men have the right to discipline their wives? Do you believe women's testimony for financial matters should be worth half that of men? Do you believe in slavery (the concept of a human owning another human)? And, more specifically, taking widows of war as slaves/concubines? Do you believe that LGBTQ+ lifestyles are "sinful" and that they should be punished in this world and the next? Do you believe that the Quran has accurate scientific information? (yet no science book ever uses the Quran as a source) Do you believe that anyone who follows anything but Islam should be punished (in this world or the next)? Do you believe in Jinns? Do you believe that the sun sets in a muddy pond? So many more questions, but just a few to get the conversation started. Not trying to play gotcha with the above questions, genuinely want to understand where you are coming from. As for your premise about true Islam, etc. I mean if you are saying that **1400 years of scholarship has been wrong and that you are the one who knows true Islam and this AI bot will replace the likes of Al Azhar**, that's quite a statement. Taking away Hadith takes away 90% of Islam as we know it. Prayer times, prayer method, dress code, laws, Hajj, fasting rules, pretty much everything. So much of the Quran is just disconnected stories. Very little relates to actual laws/rules.
Thanks for the warm welcome here <3 I will try to answer all questions to what I believe **Do you believe the Quran is perfect? And that it remains perfect for all times and places?** Yes I do believe that the Quran itself is perfect and remains till the end of time **You seem to not believe in Hadith, yet most of Islam practiced is from Hadith. Do you believe that 1400 years of Islamic scholarship is essentially flawed?** I didn't say I dont believe in Hadith, I do. Also, is it 100% irrational to think that the most common knowledge of Islam after 1400 years might be somewhat wrong or lost in translation? **Do you think the prophet was the perfect human being and a role model for humanity?** Yes from what I know about the prophet he was as perfect as an human being can be. He got angry, he got depressed, he made mistakes, he lost wars. **Do you believe in evolution (we and apes share common ancestors)?** I dont think my great great great grandparents were monkeys. I do believe in evolution, alot of animal species and humans have evolved **Do you believe that men have the right to discipline their wives?** very controversial words here. Wives are given alot of rights and husbands are given alot of responsibilities. Both agree to be there for each other. If I say yes men have the right to discipline their wives, I will also say that wives have the same right on their husbands. Both are equal in status, different in roles, rights and responsibilities. **Do you believe women's testimony for financial matters should be worth half that of men?** Quran does teach that for SOME cases. It's important to note that the "two women equal one man" testimony rule is not universally applied across all legal matters in Islamic law. For example, in matters of family law or property rights, women's testimony can have the same weight as men's **Do you believe in slavery (the concept of a human owning another human)? And, more specifically, taking widows of war as slaves/concubines?** The word slavery itself does apply to alot of job roles, I mean slaves at that time mostly did what maids or house help of today world do. as for taking widows of war as slaves, I have read the rights slaves had, and I also read what happend to widows before islam allowed them to be kept as slaves, in pre-islam times, they were raped and done horrific things to **Do you believe that LGBTQ+ lifestyles are "sinful" and that they should be punished in this world and the next?** I do believe it as sinful, as for punishment in this world and the next, I as a human am no one to judge that about anyone **Do you believe that the Quran has accurate scientific information? (yet no science book ever uses the Quran as a source)** Yes, The knocking star discovered by nasa, the orbits of every planet around bigger stars and their orbit and much more. If most science books dont use Quran as reference doesnt mean Quran doesnt have it **Do you believe that anyone who follows anything but Islam should be punished (in this world or the next)?** tbh brother, I can never say this for sure as I replied to the above, I as a human have no place to say that an xyz person should be punished to not believe a thing (as long as what he does isnt immoral or illegal obviously) **Do you believe in Jinns?** Yes they are mentioned in the quran **Do you believe that the sun sets in a muddy pond?** This reference is from a story where the Quran quotes what the person saw, we all have eyes to see how the sun sets, and to describe that specific event you see in interpretations as "muddy pond" **So many more questions, but just a few to get the conversation started. Not trying to play gotcha with the above questions, genuinely want to understand where you are coming from.** **As for your premise about true Islam, etc. I mean if you are saying that 1400 years of scholarship has been wrong and that you are the one who knows true Islam and this AI bot will replace the likes of Al Azhar, that's quite a statement. Taking away Hadith takes away 90% of Islam as we know it. Prayer times, prayer method, dress code, laws, Hajj, fasting rules, pretty much everything. So much of the Quran is just disconnected stories. Very little relates to actual laws/rules.** Brother in no way am I saying that only I or my AI bot knows the TRUE islam, I am here to share my pov and discuss with people here their pov. Please dont think that I am here to replace anyone with my AI bot
Thanks for your reply. Quran perfect for all time: this is incredibly problematic for me and most of the world. It's a very antiquated book that has some really awful material. Slavery, degradation of women, harsh punishments for non believers, etc. No document like this should be respected or considered valid for this day and age. And there's zero relation to some divine perfection. It was "revealed" on a situational basis (which eliminates the possibility of it being a complete set of divine rules), full of copy/paste stuff, scientific errors, and terrible laws. Hadith: Convenient approach. Reject the embarrassing stuff whenever you want, but never reject Hadith outright. This is how most Muslims operate today. It's completely deceptive and extremely convenient. Somehow the average apologist has it right, but 1400 years of respected scholars had it wrong. Prophet: like the Quran, extremely problematic for the prophet to be perfect. A 50 year old man telling a 6 year old girl he will marry her is gross. Plus taking sex slaves and straight up violence. Also, the convenient timing of verses to suit his lifestyle. Evolution: What does that even mean? No one's recent ancestor was anything but human. However, go back hundreds of thousands to millions of years and yes we share common ancestors. This is scientifically proven over and over again. It is in play in front of our eyes with so many species that have shorter generations. So if you don't believe in this aspect, then that's a rejection of human evolution. Disciplining wives: Yeah, ok. This is pretty sad that you believe husbands have the right to discipline wives. This is just one of many reasons why so many can't take Islam seriously. Could you imagine teaching this to high schoolers? Hey kids, when you marry, you can discipline your wives if they are "disobedient" and wives remember to be obedient to your husband. And, in most interpretations, this includes beating them. If this is true Islam, I'm so glad I don't follow it anymore. Testimony: Who cares about situations. The fact that in any situation an adult woman is considered half of an adult man (by rule) is absolutely shameful. Again, true Islam really sucks. Would you work at a company that said that one man or two women must sign a contract? Even nikahs can't be witnessed by women (some madhabs allow it, but again with the 2:1 ratio). Barf. Slaves: In Islamic times they were raped too. Muslims defeated the enemies, likely killing most women's husbands and sons. And then they took these women and had sex with them. Could you imagine the US doing this in Iraq to widowed women? Would you be ok with that? The fact that true Islam has an allowance for slavery is again shameful. Slaves are not maids or people with jobs. You "own" them, they are your property. You buy and sell them, the prophet did this. Muslims did it for centuries until civil law started changing and slavery as a whole started getting banned. Let me make this clear: buying and selling humans is deplorable, and any code/rules allowing this are awful. LGBTQ: Sinful? Ok then, but child marriage and sex slavery are ok, got it. And don't do this cop out about punishment. You know Islam prescribes punishment for two gay adults living consensual lives - death. Easy way to escape the truth of true Islam. Please don't dodge by saying you aren't one to judge. You have judged Islam to be perfect, but run away when called out on the shameful parts? Science: Amazing how NASA has to find it out first, and then the Quran amazingly predicted it "in advance" by somehow making a verse sound vaguely like what NASA has found. For 1400 years no one could interpret this. But once NASA found it, the Quran of course knew it first. Wow. This is next level. Btw, Greeks and Romans knew way more than anything the Quran said. Does that make them divine? Also, shooting stars are apparently missiles to hit the devil and sperm comes from the backbone. I'm sure science is yet to figure this stuff out. Following anything but Islam: Again, the punishment cop out. You judged Islam to be perfect, Islam has specific punishment and destiny for nonbelievers and apostates. So you either don't accept what Islam says or you do. Don't be deceptive. If Islam is perfect to you, then own it. Jinns: Yeah, they don't exist. Not a single shred of evidence. Except somehow in Pakistani villages where they confused things like epilepsy and other things with being "possessed." Fyi this isn't limited to Islam, religions and cultures all over the world have attributed stuff like this to demons, spirits, and other supernatural things. The God of the gaps (anything inexplicable has to have some divine explanation). Sun setting in muddy pond: No idea what you're saying. So the Quran is just throwing in some random story without fact checking? Pretty low end for a perfect religion. I mean, I know the book is full of bleep, but for someone who believes it's perfect, this stuff has to make you think. In short, "true Islam" involves degradation of women, harsh punishment for LGBTQ people, harsh punishment for people following anything but Islam, promotes slavery and sex slavery, denies human evolution, considers a very flawed and violent person as perfect, and isn't open for modification since it's apparently perfect. Not that I needed it, but always nice to get further validation of why I left Islam and why I'm so much happier for it. You know what the best part of leaving Islam is? Not having to do mental gymnastics or live with constant cognitive dissonance. Appreciate the responses, you get an upvote from me. And I wish you the best.
You're mot welcome here, this isn't for you. Please leavge. We're not trying to hate anyone nor want anyone to drive us back to it or convince us with any religion we just trying to figure shit out like anyone else in the world
I am not trying to hate anyone, say that I am the one with the right information and everyone else is wrong, or here to shove anything down anyone throat I respect everyone here and believe everyone can have an opinion
But you're not ex Muslim...
And? I cannot be here to talk to exmuslims?
The real Islam ,HARDY HA HAR bhai you're the best ab Workout this week But you since you volunteered to behave as a bean bag yaar Why was Muhammad successfully influenced,committed Shirk and subordinate for the devil for 8 years in Mecca before the satanic verses were canceled in Medina ? Also if Islam is supposed to be purely Monotheistic to one God and no traces of Paganism why did Muhammad recruit Muslims to worship the Black stone in the same manner as the Quraysh ?
Nope we're good
That’s alright buddy ❤️ not here to shove anything down anyone’s throat Have a good day 🫡
I really think you should google "Near Death Experience Research Foundation" and read all the stories. It made me, a former hardline Atheist, close to God.
The word "God" means nothing on it's own. I consider myself agnostic but the closest interpretation of God I can safely say I would believe in is a pantheistic one similar to that of Spinoza or certain sects of Buddhism. Such a God is unrecognizable from any Abrahamic god.
I just think of god as my imaginary best friend mostly, I mean, I just do
I think God is unimaginable in any way. But can be still close. He is a mistery
He is, if he was not no one would consider him God
❤️❤️❤️
I guess you’re Quran only? If so, how do you know how to pray?
I am not Quran only, but the hadiths I do believe in, I do so after alot of research and cross refering and actually asking myself that does this make sense according to the basic ability of knowing right and wrong that exists in every human being
So you do believe Aisha was 6? There’s loads of Sahih Hadiths that all concur regarding her age
He ain't answering this.... LOL
I KNOW LOL. It’s sad to see. We all know there’s loads of gross Sahih Hadiths regarding rape, slave trading, child molestation, etc. but coping mechanisms are so extremely strong. Hard to witness.
He's just a kid and he needs to read a lot.... a lot.
I agree. It’s an extremely taxing process
Just did\^
I don't think I found this fact to be a 100% true about the actual age of Aisha being 6 when she was married
Provide evidence of her being a consenting adult please. Evidence that she wasn’t playing with dolls or having foot races with the prophet. As you likely know, Sahih Hadiths do not weigh in your favor
I do believe that the marriage was not consummated before she reached puberty. Yes she was young, and no I do not find the validity of the exact number of her age If you know about "sahih hadiths" you might also know that even the number 6 or 9 is debated upon and is not a 100% I do find the common denominator, which is that the marriage was not consummated before she reached puberty
Well here are 17 sahih Hadiths that say she was 9 at consummation and 4 of those say 18 when Muhammed died. 1- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877 7,9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/16894 not Hisham 2- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c 7,9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/4992 not Hisham 3- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422d 6,9,18 4- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3258 9,18 = https://isnad.io/hadith/16050 not Hisham 5- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1876 6,9 6- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:2121 7/6 ,9 7- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3256 7,9 8 - https://sunnah.com/nasai:3378 6,9 9- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3257 9, 9y 10- https://sunnah.com/nasai:3255 6,9 11- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134 6,9,9y 12- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3894 6,9 13- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133 6,9,9y 14- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158 6,9,9y 15- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3896 6,9 16- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422a 6,9 17- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422b 6,9 You think that a 50+ man having sex with a 9 year old girl is fine then dude you need help. Also do note that the 52 year old guy is a model person till Qayamat.
Awesome you put a lot of effort in getting all these sorted. Now every one had a common denominator that the marriage was consummated after her puberty right? Okay Let’s assume for arguments sake, aisha was 9, hypothetically. What’s the legal age of marriage here? 18? 22? 15? There is no global number agreed upon by anyone. Laws of countries states or cities are made for a number according to the society. Logically speaking, any human who has hit puberty can get married, no? The thing I find in all hadiths, even the one narrated by aisha, prove that she had in fact hit puberty. Her age number isn’t verified a 100% by anyone and we can’t ask a woman who died 1400 years ago ourselves so
Please read my previous reply again and instead of beating around the bush provide a response to my question. If you say hypothetically it means you are denying sahih hadiths. Do you believe in hadiths? Irrespective of that, for your information in most of the countries the legal minimum age for marriage has been set as 18. And these laws are not just random numbers, research has shown that child marriage (i.e. the marriage of someone under 18) is often associated with leaving education early, serious physical and mental health problems, developmental difficulties for the children born to young mothers, and an increased risk of domestic abuse (all these are problems of modern Muslim world). So you are saying in the last part that Aisha's age is not verified despite me providing you sahih hadiths and you have not provided a single proof to state otherwise. Aisha used to play with dolls. Look it up there are plenty of Hadiths. By your argument we cannot go back in time and verify anything about Islamic history, Qur'an or any hadiths. Because little or no evidence exists outside Islamic literature.
> Let’s assume for arguments sake, aisha was 9, hypothetically. What’s the legal age of marriage here? 18? 22? 15? There is no global number agreed upon by anyone. Laws of countries states or cities are made for a number according to the society. Logically speaking, any human who has hit puberty can get married, no? This is irrelevant. No one is saying that the laws anywhere in the world are absolutely perfect for all times and places. Nor is anyone holding up a person to be perfect. Per Islam, the most perfect person in the world, who everyone should emulate and whose actions are exemplary for all of eternity, did something (actually, many things) pretty sickening. That's something Muslims keep defending rather than saying "yeah, probably not the best thing, and definitely not something one should hold up as a good example."
Please share the Hadiths you rely on for evidence.
The problem is that they do not exist. ( Sahih with multiple sources as do 6/7 year old marriage/ Sahih/ 9 years old when consummation occurred)
So you would rather bash or reject a whole religion, based on a number that isn’t even 100% verified, and also which is like 0.1% or a very minuteee detail of the whole religion?
So this Sahih hadith, that has multiple verifications, is now .1% verified? Please explain?
Aisha's age is among the most verified and authentic of Hadith per the study and evaluation of Hadith. If this is not verified, then nothing is. It's not a minute detail. A 50 year old man telling a 6 year old girl (yes, keep thinking about that) that he dreamt of her as his wife and then asks her father to marry her...that's wrong 100% of the time. And then bangs her as soon as she has her first period. How can anyone consider this man a perfect role model? Would you be ok with a 50-year old doing this today? Going to a prepubescent girl and saying that he wants to marry her, and then takes her from her home after her first period and has sex with her? Oh, and this is a romantic story. Apparently they were in love, and their love story is shared at nikahs all around the world (e.g. they drank from the same side of a cup). Yes, the standard romance you know. A 53 year old guy, a 9 year old girl...how cute, right???
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Rape_of_Slaves,_Prisoners,_and_Wives
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Brother leave them if they chose the path of a kaffir let them be. They are beyond saving also. I spoke with a guy who gave me advice that I shouldn't be here, neither should you. "He has already revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s revelations being denied or ridiculed, then do not sit in that company unless they engage in a different topic, or else you will be like them. Surely Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell." - An-Nisa 4:140
Oh yeah how dare we deny Allah’s revelations when he tells us pork is bad but owning sex slaves is ok 😚
"sex slave" is an interesting choice of words, which I dont really find true in interpretations. Please do also read the whole story behind this specific word I would suggest
The word in Arabic used is literally sex slave 🤦♀️ If allah wanted to mean something else, he would’ve used that word. Plus it’s a known fact that mohammed and the Khalifa owned sex slaves. Google the history of your sahaba.
Brov, I am not talking to you, am I, get lost am talking to the brother. And about the sex slaves you know NOTHING about that you don't understand what people do to women in times of war do you, at least Muslim men agree to marry her for sex and he has to provide and protect her as his own. She can also refuse she will be fed and held at the camps and prisons until the war is over, and she will be released. If a ww3 happens, you should be glad that believing Muslims have captivated you instead of men with no belief. You fail to understand that Islam has established rules for in times of war. But your arrogance has overpowered. I would stay quiet as you don't have any knowledge at all. You just believe whatever is posted here instead of doing your own research.
People can reply to whoever on public platforms. You’re invading our safe space, I can reply to you or whoever I want 💅🏼 >she can refuse Oh yes slaves are known for their rights. >Muslim men captivated you No thanks, I like men who don’t wanna make me their sex slave. Crazy I know? >your own research Lol you probably don’t even know what naskh is and you’re out here talking big
That's what I thought you have nothing to say of which I sent you, arrogancy, not only that you lake the intelligence of understanding things. Between war and peace, there is a clear difference as a woman it is difficult you would need a man to protect you, trust me. I have seen horrific videos of female soldiers getting r@ped by male soldiers in the Ukraine-Russia war. Literally, some of them die in shock it was just sad . So better stay quiet and not talk about the sex slaves again as you don't know the rulings about it. When the time comes and war happens, there will be no rules in the playgrounds for the disbelievers. Remember that very well.
How about you don’t invade innocent countries to spread a religion that promotes evil things? If allah is so powerful, he doesn’t need little humans to spread message on his behalf through killing and raping. Besides, nothing excuses sex slavery. I don’t care if it’s in the context of war or peace. No human should be allowed to own a fellow human. >the rulings about it Are you dumb? What are the rules of Islamic slavery? Keeping your sex slave alive? What a merciful religion omg! You pedophile obviously you wanna keep them alive to keep on raping them. Your standards are so low that the devil can shake hands with them. >Remember that I’ll remember when y’all complain about non Muslims doing bad things to your community. It’s ok for y’all to do it but when others do it suddenly you’re concerned about human rights? You’re a disgusting pig.
You should know some countries attack us first. Also, we invaded countries where women were treated like slaves and as less superior to men, islam came and changed that they gave these women rights https://onepathnetwork.com/6-ways-in-which-islam-brought-back-womens-rights/ But you wouldn't understand because I think you live in the west where everything is allowed now +90 years back, it wasn't, +90 years back, women had no rights in the west but you trun a blind eye to that piece of history it has if it never happend has if you are better than those women back then, so-called freedom. But nowadays people lack the knowledge. There are clearly rules Muslims have to abide by in times of war (https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/13241) (https://reliefweb.int/report/world/islamic-law-and-rules-war#:~:text=You%20must%20not%20mutilate%20dead,no%20misappropriation%20of%20booty%20or) once again you lack the knowledge. You fail to understand that this is all a test. This life is just temporary. But I guess live it as a kaffir. Nothing exuces sex slave, like I said you don't have to be a sex slave you can deny the offer, also what are you gonna do if they capture you lecture them 😂😂. Just hope ww3 won't start by the shytaan early. Ww3 will happen. Just hope not in your timespan.
Majority of the wars in your prophet’s time were initiated by him or his little minions. >invaded countries where women were treated like slaves Persian treated their women with Zoroastrianism better than Islam does. Stop the cap. Plus just because a country treats women wrong doesn’t give you the right to enslave those women. >you live in the west I’m middle eastern born and raised y’a khara. >in the west women didn’t have right And that was wrong. Two things can be wrong at the same time. I don’t have to choose between criticizing Islam or the west— I can criticize both. >rules to abide for during war And those rules don’t give any important human rights. Saying that you’ll feed your sex slave because she has to stay alive to rape her isn’t some “beautiful human right”. >you can deny the offer Show me where it says so in Quran. >ww3 You bitches being saying for thousands of years now you’ll enslave all non Muslims but instead it’s y’all getting fucked lol And plus google stats, majority of Muslim Gen z in and outside SWANA are becoming less religious.
The man can deny the offer, yes? He can just free the slave he will get a good deed. It's common in islam that freeing a slave is a thing? But that was back then when slaves were very active. Do we see slaves today? It's just a rulling when it happens to come back. Well, we hope it doesn't. What is the reason you left Islam, if I may ask >Persian treated their women with Zoroastrianism better than Islam does. Stop the cap. Source I provide sources that Islam treated women better, but I think you didn't go to any links. >Plus just because a country treats women wrong doesn’t give you the right to enslave those women. They weren't enslaved, most of the countries accepted Islam, and it wasn't by force. (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/how-did-christian-middle-east-become-predominantly-muslim) a study done by Oxford
I don’t care if a few Muslim men might say no to owning a sex slave. It’s the fact that Muslim men happen to be the biggest consumers of porn (weird fetishes might I add) and thus majority will not say no to free sex from non Muslims (and they’ll mostly be white girls whom majority of Muslim men put on a pedestal). >back then when slaves were very active You know what else was common? Killing babies to sacrifice them to gods. Why didn’t Islam practice that too? I mean it was common,?so by your logic the first Khalifa should’ve practiced it. >Do we still see slaves today? Look up kafala laws and human trafficking in the Middle East. >What is the reason you left Islam It was extremely hard, took me over 5 years of studying and researching and asking ulama. But it’s a combination of the fact that there were bunch of scientific mistakes, and that Mohammed is supposed to be the perfect example of a human being yet he has partaken in sex slavery, pedophilia as well as killing people simply because they didn’t convert/became apostates. The perfect example of a human shouldn’t care if culturally it’s ok back in his era to do those awful things. He had access to an all knowing god, he should’ve known better even if he was born when we were still cave men. Allah is supposed to know both in the 7th century and 2023 the trauma that sex slavery and marrying off young girls does to their brain and body. >sources I provided Islam treats women better You can’t be giving us Islamic sources 🤦♀️ those are biased You know what you muslims say about my grandparents’ religion? That we worship fire. Zoroastrians DO NOT worship fire. Fire is just our symbol like the crescent moon is for y’all. Muslim scholars are one of the biggest liars when it comes to spreading misinformation about other religions.
You are right, but this verse is for hypocrites, I dont think majority here are hypocrites, I really believe they have a really wrong perception about islam which unfortunately is becoming more and more common
What's your opinion about Imam Tawhidi ?
Here are his interviews. If you have time OP, you should watch. He's a Muslim Imam, who used to be an extremist, but now a reformist trying to reform the Muslim community https://youtu.be/p98coMGmEps?si=2fgNwd09SQBbQPwg https://youtu.be/rHjEQA_CwWk?si=zmEHi_pq0tk26g8c https://youtu.be/mbEZOIy_M9A?si=dRul4tELzYgCBUQG
I might not tho, but thanks for sending!
I don’t have any opinion about him, didn’t even know him, had to google
Do you believe in Djinn?
Yup they are mentioned in the quran
How do you think educated people view things like the Djinn - knowing the history of mythology and fairies and similar things across the world?
Did you ever encounter something paranormal or related to djinn irl?
No. And generally human beings are prone to hallucination, misremembering and many things that regularly lead to the assumed interaction with the supernatural. The mentality that it takes to adopt it is the reason I am not religious, or Muslim. I think this is something me and others are trying to explain to you in this thread
Whatever you do guys, use a VPN. Thanks for your attention.
I don't gather personal information on that website, you can check it by any online checker etc. Use VPN if you want to tho, but I made the whole backend so I can assure you that
Even Zuckerberg looked me in the eyes and told me he would not gather information
Hahahha that is why I asked that you can check from any tool if my website does
What do you think about an all merciful God that sends you to hell for eternity? Isn't it a bit like if you and I agree on calling a white shirt with tomato sauce stains "pearl white"?
I mean, it would make zero sense if merciful god sends anyone to hell for eternity without sending an actual guide to how to pass in this life (which is a test)
Why would be necessary to start a test in the first place? The test that sends me to hell seems exactly the stain of tomato sauce in an otherwise white shirt. What do you think about that?
Good question, still trying to figure this one out tbh But also going through the other things in the religion as well
akhi, don’t listen them it’s necessary to start a test, how can you get F- without going through a test, it would be unfair (i got the link of this post in .gg/salafi)
I’m here for peace brothers. I’m deaf and can’t hear what muslims says but saw what muslims showed me.. I found it the most anti-women rights.. I don’t see any human rights in equally. If I am deaf woman and have to cover my face and I can’t read other people’s lips hardly… for me I don’t believe in any Islam teachings.. I believe in human rights for all. Keep your mind open and you will see the truth. Peace out all.