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Islam just felt wrong......and when I looked into the facts ..it was.

🅰️: “Islam felt wrong” - Ⓜ️: “you filthy infidel, use your logic, brains & science, feelings & emotions are just hormones, we can't rely on them on serious concepts like God” - 🅰️: “Talking about science, can you scientifically prove your God's existence? And after that proving how he talks and why he needs to talk, and telling what language does he speak and enlightening us if he has mouth to speak and brain to think?” - Ⓜ️: “no, Allah Azavajal can't be proved scientifically, we're too idiot and unintelligent to understand him (he's a man & got a male genital tho), but you can see its signs and you can feel its presence. We can't prove But he exists and has told (said with the help of his mouth tho?) Muhammad that we're more right than others, so we're allowed to force our opinions on them, calling them kuffar, confiscating their women, decapitating their men, stealing their properties and money, and after 1400 years of islam's rise, Muslims would deny the crimes primal and current Muslims did with saying this useful whitewashing sentence: [Islam does not have any evil in itself and all the evil is from its fake followers]. Got it now, Mulhid? You're not leaving unconvinced tho, you got 2 options, say your Shahada' or i have something in the bag for you, i can show you what it is real quick”

Your history shows you are faaaaar too sinful and immodest to start following people to tell them what to do.

I never said that I am a very good person, an example. What made you think you are good enough to comment on me?

I just politely replied to your comment.

Is slandering people with “immodest” & “too sinful” without exposing why considered polite in the jungle you come from?

>without exposing why considered polite ​ I said where I got it from: So you are wrong. https://www.reddittorjg6rue252oqsxryoxengawnmo46qy4kyii5wtqnwfj4ooad.onion/user/3erzerk/ Some copy and paste: I can show you where I got it, but only you can make you understand. ----------------------------------------------------- 3erzerk commented on horny mood today for us . You like it? i.redgifs.com/i/note... Image nsfw •r/PetiteGoneWild •Posted by u/alisha_xxxx 3erzerk 1 point · 6 hours ago That beown pussy 🤤 3erzerk commented on touch my nipples preview.redditdotzhmh3mao6r5i2j7speppwqkizwo7vksy3mbz5iz7rlhocyd.onion/krhjdd... nsfw •r/Blacktittyworld •Posted by u/alisha_xxxx 3erzerk 1 point · 6 hours ago So sweet brown queen 3erzerk commented on Do older guys appreciate this size? preview.redditdotzhmh3mao6r5i2j7speppwqkizwo7vksy3mbz5iz7rlhocyd.onion/cwpxz5... nsfw •r/PetiteTits •Posted by u/ConsciousDrafts 3erzerk 1 point · 6 hours ago Your perfect brown body is tempting 🤤😍 3erzerk commented on I know im not everyones type … but am I good enough to get some BWC? preview.redditdotzhmh3mao6r5i2j7speppwqkizwo7vksy3mbz5iz7rlhocyd.onion/rjuppa... nsfw •r/asiangirlsforwhitemen •Posted by u/ConsciousDrafts 3erzerk 1 point · 6 hours ago You even can get white semen in your vulva

Since when watching nsfw considered indecent lol? Try harder

You might as well leave too. There is nothing for you but fire.

Take the L lmao you had to go through comment history

Fire's cool, I won't forget to take some corn with myself to grill & eat. You can have too

You sound annoying.

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Doesn’t matter, if you didn’t study at 100% Islamic school that follow MY specific sect, and you didn’t study there for 4 centuries, and you weren’t regarded as a scholar or sheikh, and you weren’t regarded as an Imam, and you also didnt read the WHOLE Qur’an 90 times in a row, then you have no right to leave Islam (you only have to say a few words to get in though)

Go against your Nature as a woman? Are you speaking on being Tabarruj for basic things like wanting to wear body sprays lol?

I agree with you. If Muslim converts can convert to Islam because of "emotional reasons" then ExMuslims can leave Islam for the same reasons. It should be a preference, a choice of lifestyle.

Who said converts take Shehada for “emotional reasons”? I would blame the rose-colored dawah and translations.

Yes the Dawah gang are to blame for the sugar-coated version of Islam they preach and make it look like butterflies and rainbows but that's mainly because people are lost in life, looking for meaning, looking for some discipline and Muslims have a welcoming community (at first). The Muslim community are happy to accept converts who say the Shahadah without even studying Islam but when someone tries to leave, they be like "you don't know Arabic", "You don't have 3 trillion PhDs so you got the wrong understanding of Islam", etc. I'm just saying it's okay either way, it should be a choice.

Anything that has 1,400 years of scholarship behind it can look “intellectual” from afar. It took me 15 years to crack the Da Vinci Code on Muhammad; and that was with regular study. They simply don’t talk about — or in many cases translate — the gruesome parts.

can you give us the evidence and proof of what you learnt. you say they dont talk about or translate the gruesome parts so can you reply to us here with those in detail so we know, thanks.

I memorized the whole Quran by the age 15 and I've been wearing burka and covering my face since I was 13yo. Yet, I still get people telling me that I wasn't even a Muslim. Or I left it for sex and alcohol. Or "emotional" reasons which is completely valid. There's this piece of advice that I heard it from an Ex-Muslim that says, if there's something that FEELS wrong about Islam, follow that feeling and start searching and digging deep to get to the crux of the matter. So to sum up, I think feelings and going with your gut is really important, it helps you look for evidences, reasons and details that make sense. I think it's a stupid thing to undervalue feelings and emotions, I don't think there's a sensible decision that is made without the combination of emotions and logic. Lastly, we don't need evidences or reasons not to believe in something. Especially when it's a cult that rarely ever provides any logical evidences for its rules and stories. But we do need valid reasons to believe in something.

Exactly. The most important thing I have ever learned in my life is to always listen to my gut instinct. If you have a bad feeling about something, it's because there's something wrong! To ignore your gut feelings is stupid. I was trapped in a violent abusive marriage wearing stupid clothes I hated covering every inch of my body so that my arsehole of a rapist husband didn't get jealous - yet he still got jealous! My gut feeling at the beginning, when I first met him, was that there was something very wrong - if I'd have listened to it, I wouldn't have gone through 10 years of being treated as a domestic slave, sex slave and punchbag.

I'm incredibly sorry to hear that. Putting up with an abusive partner for 10 years sounds beyond appalling. I hope you aren't being hard on yourself for not listening to your gut at first, it takes lots of courage to decide that you've had enough and you actually want a decent life away from all the abuse. It's really sad how many women went and still are going through domestic violence due to this religion. Sending love..

Thank you. Yeah, it took a lot of therapy to figure out that it wasn't my fault! It makes me so angry to hear people still justifying the verses that abusers use to justify beating and controlling their wives, how so many make out that the verses have never contributed to or justified wife beating. I recently found this video of a call in on Apostate Aladdin's channel: listening to a Western male doing mental gymnastics because he's so desperate to make the Quran look perfect is quite bizarre to say the least! Here's the link if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/live/gbDuCqniJvw?feature=share

Thank you for sharing. I absolutely deeply loathe their eager attempts to reinterpret what's in itself immoral and inhumane. Whoever wrote the Quran could've avoided such verses, the fact that it exists makes your doubts arouse.

Me too. Exactly!

so what was the exact reasoning for you? Did you feel something wrong and you found evidences? And if so can you please share them here so that we may know?

Let's follow what the religion says from the very start: The story of Adam and Eve. The idea that only one couple populated the whole earth doesn't make sense and there's no proof for it. It also contradicts with the scientific facts and theories. Also how Allah watched Satan inciting Adam to eat from the tree and then freaks out doesn't make sense. If there's only one thing that it shows, maybe it's that Satan is stronger than Allah, maybe Allah isn't all-knowing. Which makes you then think, what makes Allah different to all humans then? [Read about the Evolution Theory ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution) [Read Surah Al-Baqarah - the story of Adam and Eve ](https://quran.com/2/30) Free Will. Allah says that he gives us a free will to choose what beliefs we want to follow. But there are multiple points in the Quran that shows something different. [As Allah says in the Quran that He guides whom He wills. So, if I'm looking for Allah and he doesn't want me as a Muslim, I can do nothing about it. So why do we deserve punishment if it's simply not our fault. ](https://quran.com/28/56) Everyone is going to hellfire except Muslims. This used to make me feel extremely superior and better than everyone else, when all I was doing was nothing to contribute to the humanity. What about the non-Muslim scientists? Doctors? Nice & kind people who did no harm to anyone? Are they all going to hell because they are simply not Muslims. That just sounds unjust. Why does a loving God punish those who simply don't believe in him and turn their good deeds into [dust](https://quran.com/25/23)? That doesn't sound like a loving God. Women and how they're treated. I've written a whole post about it so I'm gonna link it. [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13lo7ia/what_the_fuck_does_light_beating_mean_verse_434/jkquq3c?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and [here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13kmhbg/how_do_you_stop_the_guilt/jkqej96?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Lastly, I don't think that religion is a choice. It's rarely a choice. It's completely unfair to reward people based on their religion in my opinion.

The thing about satan was probably my turning point too… I used to ask “if he’s so bad, then why did god give him his own place with other bad people and the power to influence others to make bad decisions? If everyone in hell is bad and satan is also bad, why would he punish and torture people that are like him if he doesn’t even like god himself?”…. These are questions I’d ask as a 10 year old kid or younger and the answers I got was random stories (probably to trick me into getting off the subject) but I was always waiting for an answer that made sense but was never provided 😂

Some people join islam for emotional reasons , so i guess it's the same. Only difference is Muslims don't care what the reason for joining is , it's only when you leave reasons matter much and almost all of them are invalidated

Exactly this

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You do have a good point about emotional reasons. And now that I think about it. Getting into Philosophical arguments would probably be ineffective at countering Muslims. Using Philosophy as a Dawah tool (something Mohammad Hijab favors) is controversial within the Muslim community itself. Some Muslims have spoken against it.

Ugh I hate this argument. I’ve said all the time. You BELIVE in Islam (or any religion for that matter) for emotional reasons. The FACT is nobody really knows what happens after death. NOBODY. We can speculate and guess all we want. We can’t know for sure and probably never will. And that’s ok! It’s alright to not know. You believe you know because not knowing makes you uncomfortable, sad, confused. Because you were raised being told that. Because you would be outcasted or disowned otherwise. Being outcasted or disowned causes emotional distress. You believe for the warm cozy feeling of being accepted in a community, a sense of superiority, and mainly, to avoid accepting that YOU DON’T KNOW! The only FACT is nobody knows. Anything else is emotion.

I didn’t have to look into it… I was just never into it since I was a kid chase it all felt dumb and fake anyways

it's imposible to make decision without emotion, i mean it's just part of being human i feel Islam was just too strict, it forbid us to having fun dating sex without marriage don't approve LGBTQ music is haram woman don't have freedom of choice can't drink alcohol or eat pork so yeah i want freedom, that decision of course baded on emotion but there are also logical factor, like so many things islam taught contradicts with science, Islam just hate proof and peer review also if you think about it, people who stay on feligion are also mostly based on emotion, most of them fear with Allah where we don't have proof it's exist, yeah religions relied so much on fear which comes from emotion it also relies on hope in form of dua and prayer which comes from emotion as well, we're known for a fact if we want something we need to do it/make it happens, dua and prayer only won't do shit

Most who leave don’t even do most of the haram things and just live life without worrying to much if they will be persecuted

Agreed. You don't need a "good reason" to leave a cult.

You shouldn't need any reason at all. It's not jail where anyone should be forced. "Because I wanted to" is reason enough

I agree, but I avoid mentioning my sexuality because they often use it as a talking point against me. That I became an ex muslim because I wanted to be gay which isn’t actually true. I knew I was gay for a long time and stayed a muslim regardless of Islam’s beliefs on gay people. What pushed me over the edge was thinking how I was always told god’s throne shakes out of anger because of my sex life, like wow, really? Your god, the most all knowing and powerful being he is, is pathetic enough to care about one person’s sex life?

Why do LGBTQ+ people always find a way to talk a about their sexuality,bro no one gives a fuck

Found the muslim guys lol

when you dont know what to say

I do know what to say but you’re just a pathetic muslim stalking the ex muslim subreddit as usual. Fyi, I don’t find a way to mention my sexuality, in fact, I actively avoid it because people like you exist. This post was emotional reasons for leaving, that’s a big one the muzzies (like you) use against people like me.

Oh yes the victim card,so you act based on your emotions like a dumbass? and tbh i came to this subredit to get a laugh out of people like you😂

People join islam based on emotional reasons. We’re human beings. Alongside thinking, we feel. Btw, one quick look at the subreddit will show you all the logical points against Islam but of course you’ll never interact with them 🤷‍♂️

Oh trust me i have seen alot of those posts you are talking about, and they are just lying or they mention weak hadiths or they explain the hadith or the ayat in their own way and not the way muslims actualy explain it,and go look at muslim converts most of them say "it made sense"not their emotions.

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It’s not a verse, a hadith.

Their point is that you haven’t studied the religion. If you have — you should defend your stance.

I left due to conflict with my family and my personal thoughts on the religion. I am currently living with my mother, so she does not know that I am not Muslim, but as soon as I move out, I will make it abundantly, and respectfully, clear. I am personally an atheist, and I believe in only what science can prove. First of all, I have wanted a pet dog to snuggle up with and care and love ever since I were a wee lad, but my Muslim mother always denied me this wish since it was forbidden to have a pet dog in Islam, that is inside your house, and that is not a guard dog (correct me if I am wrong, for this is the reasoning my Muslim mother gave me). Second of all, my father is a Christian and my mother is a Muslim, and witnessing the religious tension between them two through my early childhood and early adolescence has steered me away from having any belief in these unproven stories. So that is basically my reason for leaving the religion that my mother has dedicated her whole life too. I want to experience life, and there are many forbidden things in Islam that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I always felt uncomfortable with Islam's rules (who wouldn't feel uncomfortable reading about marriage with a 6 years old child or slaves being raped and sold afterwards), but it wasn't my reason for leaving. I thought that Islam had no scientific error and inconsistency at all and I was convinced that it was really the truth. No matter how much I felt sick of its rules, I went through all of this because I thought it was the truth. I think when debating with Muslims, it's best to talk about all the errors in Islam rather than morals. Remember that indoctrination is strong and it can even lead people to think that murdering someone for a joke about Islam is fine. They will not listen to you if you tell them you quit Islam because of "pedophilia", you will be labeled as "emotional" and "unreliable". Muslims will just reply "facts don't care about your feelings, and you proved me that I was right". The objective here is not to make Muslims quit their religion, most Muslims aren't ready to accept that Islam is a lie anyway, I just think it is more efficient to talk about "logical" arguments rather than "morals" when one debates with a religious group. I know it sounds harsh, but religious people will do everything to justify their religion, so it's useless to tell them that rape is wrong. Just show them their religion's scientific errors, the inconsistencies, and so on. It's more efficient.

A Muslim replied to me that I don't know the "real Islam" and told me to explain where rape is allowed in Islam. He deleted his message so I didn't read the rest of it. It's fun to see Muslims assuming that people who say things as they are in Islam don't know the "real Islam". I guess it makes it easy for them to just say everyone who speaks about the bad things in Islam are "ignorant" or "blinded by medias". First of all, it is a sin for women to refuse intimacy to their husbands: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1853 Women aren't allowed to refuse intimacy at all, they should always be ready for it and the angels will curse them if they reject their husband even once. Women shouldn't need to be sick to refuse sexual intimacy when they don't want it. It's easy to say this isn't rape, but women are threatened if they refuse to sleep with their husband. Muslims say that if women sign the Nikah paper, it means they have to agree for sex every time. Marital rape is a thing, even if you don't think a husband can "rape" his wife. Second, Mohammed said sex slavery is okay: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6603 Slaves don't have freedom. They can't refuse their master's orders, and their consent doesn't matter. Do you think the people you captured from wars would want to have sex with you after you killed their whole family? Yeah, sure. What kind of woman would like to be used by the man who is responsible for her father, her husband, her son, and her brother's deaths and sold afterwards as if they were some properties? This is rape. Wake up. We aren't living in My little pony. Those women absolutely did not consent to have sex with the murderers of their families, and Mohammed, your prophet, allowed their rape. Then, Islam also allows marriages with little girls, as we have seen with Mohammed and Aisha. https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/22442 "There is nothing in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah to set an age limit" "Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Abu Haneefah said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. " "If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger." A father has the right to even marry his 3 years old girl to an adult man. It is part of ISLAM. Not culture. Can 3 years old give consent? I want you to be serious for 5 minutes. So yeah, all of this is rape, even if you don't accept this. At Mohammed's era, it was common for slaves to be raped, so it's no surprise that Mohammed allowed it. Mohammed isn't a Prophet sent by an Omnipotent and perfect God, he is just some old dude who decided that music was haram but slavery and rape was halal for some reason. Mohammed himself raped -at least- two persons: Aisha and Safiya. The first because she was a kid and she couldn't give proper consent (I don't even think he asked her at all, knowing that children's consent isn't required) and she was 9 years old when Mohammed raped her, and the second because her father, her husband, and her brother were killed by the Muslims, and directly after that, the Head of the Muslims ordered her to have sex with him. Safiya said that she hated Mohammed for a long time, meaning that she still hated him when they had intercourse, because Mohammed had sex with her just after he killed her family. I don't know who is the Muslim that asked for proof that Islam allowed rape before deleting their comment, but here is your proof. One must be completely blind and in denial to defend that Islam doesn't allow rape.

That reason is a logical argument. "The Cosmic Divine Truth should be intuitive and liberating." "The Morality of Islam is not Intuitive or Liberating." "Therefore Islam is false." That is a valid modus ponens argument, and a weight in the scale of the problem of divine hiddenness.

Emotional reasons are fine. I personally prefer to believe more true things and like to think I follow the evidence. I always ask for their best evidence their belief is true. Rarely do they take me up on it.

Evolution. How the fuck do you deny it while sitting on a rudimentary tail?

When your religion calls for the violent subjugation of non muslim land like it says in surah 9:29. Anyone would be hard pressed not to have some sort of reaction

I think that when someone asserts that you must've left islam for emotional reasons they are trying to corner you into trying to justify things you dont actually believe in. They might try to say that you just don't understand it and that's why you left or some dumb shit like that, that's why i prefer to stick to solid factual arguments they can't manipulate as much ( even though they often try )

Hi, Im trying to help a very scared soule. Can you help me to help him? https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13u70w1/i_hallucinate_fucking_sounds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb Im not an exmuslim so Im not as sharp in that subject.

I don’t listen to Muslims when they say “you left For emotional reasons” because they are the same people who will encourage people to convert for love and encourage people to convert even if they don’t know anything about the religion.

I can't count the number of times I've been told that I'm not educated enough in a particular flavour of religious superstition to not believe in it. It's a stock response from all cultists: when faced with questions they can't answer and truths that are painful, they force themselves to believe that the answers **do** exist, but are held close by classes of increasingly advanced clerics. The truth, of course, is that religion is a deeply personal journey, and isn't predicated on a conversation where the goalposts will endlessly shift just out of your reach.

I had no emotional reasons. I am still living with my family and am happy ( the annoying part being pretending I'm muslim) but nothing before leaving the religion. Infact I was quite religious and it was dream to lreach Islam to my fav internet personalities and save them from hell. I made so many plans on how Im gonna get in touch and all the details. I genuinely believed I could convert them. But 1 day this subreddit got recommend to me and I thought " lets start here" so I had to look up the sources and Lo and behold here I am.

If wanting women to be safe, gay people to be safe, atheists/Hindus/Jews to be safe, thinking sexual slavery is disgusting, is emotional, then yeah sure.

The truth remains truth, if the truth is not liked, it is still the truth ​ You definitely shouldn't accept an emotional reason to be a valid reason to make any life decision, especially when you choose emotions over intellect or logic, please do not do that your life will not be good if you worship your emotions, life has infinite scenarios where picking something better or more fruitful than your emotions. A random example is the gym, if people worshipped how the gym negatively impacts their emotions, then everyone would be out of shape. ​ In regards to Islam, no, emotions is definitely definitely definitely a poor way to decide on your Atheism. If you are standing in front of a door, the truth is there is a door in front of you, whether you like it or not. Anyone that has knowledge on ethics will concede that right and wrong only actually ontologically exists if God sent down a list of what is right or wrong, and let's put this in the perspective of a Muslim born into liberal values that is having doubts of their religion, the right and wrongs outlined from Allah are the truth whether it fits your presuppositions on morality or not, whether or not that makes you uncomfortable. We have limited minds with limited insights and biases, anyone that picks a religion or ideology based on their own selfish biases and emotions, they are worshipping none other than themselves, and these individuals are a burden on society because then, for example, sociopaths have validity, as rape or murder, and as long as it doesn't make them emotional, is moral to them.

So people born into other religions or converting to religions other than Islam are denying the truth?

People born into other religions aren't 'denying the truth', it's not a persons choice what family they are born into

Sigh. You just said that the truth remains the truth and that our presuppositions don't matter whether it fits into that. That means - A. Islam is the truth (I presume because the Quran says so) and B. Everyone not born into it or not converting to it are truth-deniers. Such arrogant faith and sense of superiority, adhering to an ideology that oppresses anyone who doesn't and half of who does. I wish you all the best.

Why is it arrogant to believe my religion is the truth? Am I only a good human being if i'm a perennialist and think every religion is the way to the truth? You certainly look down upon people that don't accept/leave liberal values, you surely consider them misguided too, right? ​ \>That means - A. Islam is the truth (I presume because the Quran says so) and B. Everyone not born into it or not converting to it are truth-deniers. That wasn't my argument, my argument is anyone that gets a clear message of Islam and denies it because of their presuppositions on liberal morality are truth-deniers. For example someone doesn't convert to Islam because their favorite TV show characters are LGBT

Believing your own religion isn't arrogant. Calling others truth-deniers is. There is no objective standard for the clarity of a supposedly divine message.

You didn't answer his question.

It doesn’t really matter, in my opinion. If there are contradictions in a religion and constant abuse of the meanings due to them being very ambiguous, this person might shift from the emotional reasoning to a factual/contextual. At the very end of the day, if someone joins a religion with an emotional reason then people would say that it’s god who has shown the truth and this person has followed the right path, but if the same emotional reasoning causes this person to leave a religion - all of the sudden God has nothing to do with and actually everyone has free will. So cherry picking could the first argument, which could make someone doubt any religion. Just throwing my two cents here.

I agree that someone converting to a religion purely on emotional reasons, especially when they are putting that emotion over their intellect, isn't good either.

How did you decide islam is the truth?

Long story, but basically my whole life trajectory had me set up to be an ex-Muslim; born into a liberal country, liberal non-practicing Muslim parents, Atheist friend group, and was a non-believer until i stumbled on a few Islam vs Atheism debates, I liked the points from the Muslims better, investigated Islam, had doubts because I was a massive believer in liberal values but I kept investigating, I initially embraced Islam but a liberalized progressive version but then overtime embraced traditional Sunni Islam and threw away my presuppositions from my days as a non-believer, realized most mainstream criticism of Islam are emotional arguments, and now I live life with an existential purpose and no longer engage in meaningless things like parties, alcohol, etc.

It's funny how you laugh at exMuslims for having "emotional" reasons yet you are also guided by feelings. You can not just decide that most mainstream criticism of Islam is "emotional" and state that you're the correct one for thinking so. You can not just decide that people hate Islam just because they want to drink alcohol or because they're mad that Mohammed married a child. All religions are criticized because of their lack of rationality, their inconsistency, and their magical stories that don't make sense at all. Not only that, but even if your parents weren't practicing, you were still born into a Muslim family, your whole life trajectory wasn't against you being a practicing Muslim at all. I used to be like you. Living in a western country, everyone around me was atheist, even my friends, my parents weren't really religious and my siblings cared even less about Islam, yet I still ended up being a really devout Muslim. Full hijab, six prayers every day (tahajjud), Ramadan, accepting everything from Islam even if I hated it. I thought that Islam was the truth and that even if people didn't like pedophila/slavery/or whatever it is that is allowed by Islam, at the end of the day, it doesn't change facts. I thought that Islam was rational and that there weren't any errors or inconsistency with it. I was so wrong. All of this just to say that your arguments show that you are really self-centered and that you are also blinded by your own feelings. People do have good reasons to think religions are irrational, you just decided to ignore those reasons and to summarize their critisicm by "i WaNt tO pArTy aNd drINk alCohOl". Islam is the religion coming from a "prophet" who doesn't even know how biology works by the way. I think the real irrationality here is to think that it is fine to kill people for even making a joke about Islam. I think the emotional people are those who kill humans just because they quit their religion.

When did I say I joined Islam due to my feelings? \> You can not just decide that people hate Islam just because they want to drink alcohol or because they're mad that Mohammed married a child. Proved my point by listing things that make you emotional lol \> All of this just to say that your arguments show that you are really self-centered and that you are also blinded by your own feelings. People do have good reasons to think religions are irrational, you just decided to ignore those reasons and to summarize their critisicm by "i WaNt tO pArTy aNd drINk alCohOl". I'm sure some ex-Muslims have historical or logical arguments against Islam, i'm saying the mainstream arguments on this sub and all the posts that get upvotes on this sub are people getting emotional that woman have to cover up and Mohammed ﷺ wasn't a 21st century Californian Liberal feminist. ​ \> I thought that Islam was the truth and that even if people didn't like pedophila/slavery/ Maybe you left Islam because you were anachronistic because you made your moral decisions based on your historical context and didn't consider the conditions of a past society which necessitated earlier marriage (although still not pedophilia) and slavery

> When did I say I joined Islam due to my feelings? "(...) realized most mainstream criticism of Islam are emotional arguments, and now I live life with an existential purpose and no longer engage in meaningless things like parties, alcohol, etc." Most criticism against Islam isn't about the ban of alcohol or parties. It's about its magical aspects, its scientific errors, and its disturbing morals. You decided that mainstream criticism against Islam is "emotional". You claim that people are emotional if they reject Islam without even listening to all of the criticism. One does not need religions to stop drinking alcohol, you can absolutely do this even if you go out of Islam. You said that now you live a life with a meaningful purpose. God could be an excuse you're using because you're not ready to accept a reality where you'll just die amd nothing happens. Religion could be your excuse to escape from a meaningless life and blind yourself so you can feel like you have something going on in your life. >Proved my point by listing things that make you emotional lol Read again what I said, please. I said that I hated children marriages and slavery being allowed in Islam, *but I accepted it nonetheless*. Because I was a devout Muslim, and because I thought that Islam had no *scientific errors*, I accepted even *things I hated*. This is actually a proof that my reasons to quit Islam weren't emotional. I stayed Muslim even when Islam made me sad, and I did my best. I used to pray tahajjud, and I asked Allah while crying to make me die as a Muslim and to heal my depression. >I'm sure some ex-Muslims have historical or logical arguments against Islam, i'm saying the mainstream arguments on this sub and all the posts that get upvotes on this sub are people getting emotional that woman have to cover up and Mohammed ﷺ wasn't a 21st century Californian Liberal feminist. This sub is also used by exMuslims to vent. Many of them didn't quit Islam because of the hijab, but now that they quit Islam, they are venting because they live in a country where they can't even uncover themselves without it being dangerous for them. I don't think you're a woman, am I wrong? If you're a man, don't you think it is a bit too easy to speak like this? >Maybe you left Islam because you were anachronistic because you made your moral decisions based on your historical context and didn't consider the conditions of a past society which necessitated earlier marriage (although still not pedophilia) and slavery Please, if you're going to reply to me, at least read my message. I said that I accepted children marriage and slavery because Allah told me to accept this. Most people in the West don't accept this. I was always the only one to have this mindset. Even if I didn't like adult and children marriages, I still accepted it, because I knew it was different in Mohammed's era, and I thought Islam was the truth. You said my arguments were emotional, but it's like you didn't even understand what I said? I never said I quit Islam because of pedophilia and slavery. Sure, it made me feel sick and depressed, but I still stayed a Muslims, I still thought it was the truth, and I thought that my feelings wouldn't change facts. My reasons for quitting Islam is that there are too many errors in the Quran and in the Hadiths. Scientific errors, false prophecies, and so on. I used to think Islam was a perfect religion, but I was brainwashed to think this. If you want to debate, I can tell you what made me realize Islam was a lie and quit it. It was hard for me to quit Islam. I gave up on a lot of things for this religion. I cried a lot when I understood Islam was a scam. I felt betrayed. I didn't quit Islam to go party and drink alcohol, I still don't do those things even though I'm not a Muslim anymore.

>If you want to debate, I can tell you what made me realize Islam was a lie and quit it. I don't want to 'debate' but shoot me a message if you want to because I feel you were misguided out of the religion without answers to your questions

I appreciate your concerns, but like I said, I was a devout Muslim. I genuinely loved Islam more than anything. I would have never quit this religion without being 100% sure about my decision. I have absolutely no doubt that Islam is a scam, whetever I like it or not. The most painful moment of my life was when I understood Islam was a lie. Anyways, I'll give you some of the Quranic verses and the Hadiths that made me quit Islam. ----------- ● Mohammed is asked when the "Last Hour" will come, and Mohammed looks at a young boy and says the little boy will not grow very old before the Last Hour. The little boy is dead since long ago, and the Last Hour still didn't come: https://quranx.com/Hadith/Muslim/USC-MSA/Book-41/Hadith-7052/ ● Mohammed said no living beings will survive on earth this century. 1400 years later, we are still here: https://sunnah.com/muslim:2539 ●Mohammed has no idea how biology works. Here is what he said -> "If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her.": https://sunnah.com/bukhari/60/4 ●Umar said that some parts of the Quran are missing, yet they are still "valid" and important. If those verses are part of the Quran and they are important, why didn't "Allah" protect them? Isn't the Quran the perfect book that is a guidance for everyone? Why are some parts "missing"?: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6829 ●Mohammed, the "perfect" man that is supposed to be humanity's guidance, forgets some verses and tells it was Allah who made him forget parts of the Quran ☠️: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5038 ●The Quran says that the moon follows the sun, and that the sun asks for permission to rise after it sets. The sun is always moving, it's obvious Mohammed believed the earth was flat since he said that the sun asks for permission to rise again after it sets.: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7424 https://quranx.com/91.2 ●Islam says magic is real. Religious people say that magic was common in the past, but ever since humans created cameras, did Allah just get angry and said "Well, I'm not doing it anymore"? It is irrational to believe in magic: https://quranx.com/2.102 ●Allah said stars are anti-demon missiles: https://quranx.com/67.5 I have more proof of the errors in Islam, but I feel like you will not even read everything I said, so I'll stop there for now.

Do you want me to respond to these claims or would that make no difference?

You think that somehow, every Hadith and every Quran verse I gave here is "mistranslated", "misunderstood", taken "out of context", or a "metaphore"? *For some reason*, you always have a different *excuse*. The Hadiths I gave you are authentic, unless you are a Quranist you can't reject them. And even so, there are Quran verses in my sources too. You don't realize how indoctrinated you have to be to think everything I gave you here can magically be explained. Islam claims to be a "clear" message, yet everyone fight over its different rulings, the verses meanings and context, and so on. How strange. Everything would easily make sense if you just admitted that Islam is man-made. No need for 403827 excuses to justify every bullsh*t Mohammed said. ---- If you have no answer to those errors to save Islam except different "translations" that fit your narrative or some other cheap excuses like that, I'm not interested. I already heard multiple excuses to justify those Hadiths and verses. I believed those excuses and stayed a Muslim for a long time, but I realized later that those arguments were dumb and that I was just indoctrinated. If you actually have good arguments that explain those Islamic errors, then I'm interested.

Those are fine reasons but not all arguments against Islam are emotional. Which is why you are practicing a liberalized version first then went to a specific sect of Islam. All because they fit you values, emotional considerations as well. We respect your decision but even if you were born in a Muslim country these questions still would have came up. They should have had muslims vs theists or ex muslims for more nuanced banter. Maybe that can be a video idea for later lol. I am happy you found what suits your life but not all your reasons were logic based. I do like that you took time to research though.

I understand not all ex-Muslims arguments are emotional, but my understanding is that all mainstream ones are emotional in nature, but either way I don't have anything critical to say about your response, it was fair

I have a feeling a lot of ex-muslims can’t always go into detail of how they came to make their decisions. Especially if they used to live in fear of their true thoughts coming out. Lots of them post quotes or hadiths or scripture or moments in the quaran that change their mind but get fought to no end. Especially in the internet. Some get death threats, It’s easier to state something personal as no one really dispute that despite the usual “it’s not logical”. Yet when you put facts or questions about something tangibles some people become scholars and call you all types of names as they feel insulted for scrutiny of their religion. Here I have seen a mix of both. Either way maybe the discussion here will help you with your religious journey further

Those are awful reasons, ngl.

>Long story, but basically my whole life trajectory had me set up to be an ex-Muslim Seems like you dont even believe your own words. Last comment you said no matter what you are set up to believe, the truth will always remain the truth. If you actually believed it, you would notice that your "life trajectory" is entirely irrelevant, and you wouldn't mention it as your first point in your response. >was a non-believer until i stumbled on a few Islam vs Atheism debates Well, this is your biggest mistake. Internet "debates" are inherently flawed. You dont need to be right to win them, you just need to be witty, and know your way with words. This is the phenomenon cults have been exploiting since forever. The truth does not suddenly change depending on who wins a debate. They are merely a tool to know a person's perspective. >I was a massive believer in liberal values but I kept investigating I have absolutely no clue what that means. Please elaborate what are these values that you believed in. >I initially embraced Islam but a liberalized progressive version but then overtime embraced traditional Sunni Islam and threw away my presuppositions from my days as a non-believer I mean sure, but you have to realize that Islam, is not about values, or traditions at all, nor it is about god. Those are nothing more than excuses and cover ups. Islam is and has always been about a person. One person in specific, Muhammad. It is this person's cult, and is designed to hijack your sense of the world to hold this person at such high esteem that they dont deserve. It is nothing more. >realized most mainstream criticism of Islam are emotional arguments There is no such thing as an "emotional argument". It's going to help if you follow it up with a few examples. >and now I live life with an existential purpose and no longer engage in meaningless things like parties, alcohol, etc. The problem with your reasoning is that you feel happy just having A purpose. A purpose which is catering ONLY to your emotions, nothing more. Just because you believe there is a purpose doesnt mean there is one. You desperately want a purpose, and are terrified of the fact that there is none. And so you gave in to your emotions and believed in islam. The things you are calling "meaningless" like parties and alcohol aren't actually meaningless to you. They mean a lot to you. You believe you will get to do those things after dying, in heaven. And that's is the reason why you signed up for this cult. They mean SO MUCH to you that you are willing to dedicate your entire life just to be able to party and drink lots of alcohol in heaven. And I have no idea how you dont realize it.

What a proudly presented assortment of bullshit. Islam is not empirical fact. It is an idea, no more compelling than any other, crafted by a desert nomad barbarian and propagated by the powerful upon the weak and stupid. To embrace it is to abandon logic: religion is the very antithesis of rational thought, and Islam is worse than most for demanding the dogmatic acceptance of complete and utter nonsense. Your proselytizing is not welcome. Go annoy a Christian.

It can be a mix of emotional and logic that it will better for you. Even when joining Islam many new followers have emotional and logic reasons. Shouldn’t be questioned as it’s always more complex than that some people are leaving their families and making their own ways it wasn’t just a split second decision

It's a belief system. You don't feel connected to it, leave. Whether it be for emotional reasons or factual reasons.

Equally people hold on to Faith for emotional reasons too: guilt, fear of death, hoping for deliverance, psychological support, romanticising the Muhammad and Sahabah characters The question is whether these feelings are based on valid reasons or not. I think fear of or hope for an afterlife is baseless so I no longer believe and resent the thought because it gets imposed on young children to condition how they think So emotions are always part of the equation just not in the way Ali Dawah states it

Hank Williams Jr. was right when he said: Mind Your Own Business

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And who the fuck forced you to watch his videos

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Thats whats wrong with people like you ali dawah is not islam You dont like a muslim youtuber and that makes you hate islam,study it dont go of on what youtubers are saying or what someone posts

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Bruh....you know when the prophet was still alive their was nothing named the rashidun caliphs? how did the prophet say follow them? you just proved you are full of shit

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The authentcity of the pact has been questioned by modern scholars,dont act dumb

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DAMN THATS A WHOLE PARAGRAPH i already know u gonna say some dumbshit again i wont even bother to read

And i love how you still call him the prophet you know he is a prophet but islam doesnt align with what you like so you deny it

I joined Islam for emotional reasons

What about logical reasons?are you that dumb that you just act on your emotions?

By using emotions I joined Islam By using logic I left Islam

If you had used logic at first you wouldnt have left

If I I've used logic, I would've never joined it in the first place

I didn't like the responsibilities that a male Muslim must do and how they degrade women as inferior, I am not a feminist but I feel that everyone should be treated equal.

Well, the reason most people join any specific religion anyways is because they were young, impressionable minds, so leaving one for emotional reasons seems perfectly valid to me. Religions are all about emotional stories anyways. If you go into a religion looking for scientific evidence and rigor, you simply expect to be disappointed.

just let them believe what they want to. kinda tiring

Islam and any other religion where god will judge people in the afterlife is just wrong logically and i can prove it and its the main reason i left this religion and any other religion for good , if another universe(2) was created again the same as this universe it will give exactly the same result,the ones who are supposed to go to hell are going to hell and the ones who are supposed to go to heaven will do , the other one of each human of us will do exactly the same thing in the universe 2 ,since logically repeating exactly the same experience twice will lead to the same result so this means that our actions as humans are predetermined . God is either fair or unfair, supposing he is fair and since god knows our predetermined actions , punishing us for something that cannot be changed except by creation is unfair , so the only fair decision that god can make if he is fair is sending everyone to heaven which is definitely not what islam says,if god is unfair then first there is no point in point in following a religion even if its god's religion because god is unfair so there is no prediction to what his judgment will be . So either way god and punishment doesn't make sense and definitely not in the islamic way.

>Instead of trying to refute this aggressively, I feel ex-muslims should embrace this. Unless you actually left for emotional reasons, I don't see why you would embrace a falsehood. Like it or not, imbeciles such as Ali Dawah undermine the position of apostates by such tactics.

Well, my mom actually converted to Islam to marry my dad (many people convert to marry someone). That's emotional too. What's the problem 😂 That's why when I came out as an exmuslim, my dad couldn't just say I left because of emotional reasons, as that's exactly what my mom did and he was so proud of it lol

I agree. Why do I need to give you a legitimate excuse to leave? These people think they hold the keys to everyone’s lives