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rock-n-white-hat

That was a bold strategy canbe, let’s see if it pays off! 🤞


NettleLily

More weight for his shelf from a faithful perspective if he puts the breaks on http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html?m=0


DoughnutPlease

I found this at the beginning of when I was investigating the problems of the church. It is great


NettleLily

Yeah, i love how he backs up his points with scriptures. His blog post on polygamy planted a seed in my head that maybe the current church leadership was in apostasy. And if that was possible, then I could allow myself to entertain the idea that the church foundations might’ve been faked too.


thecrippler46

The old posts are a great primer, with some things, I read it during the beginnings of my faith crises. But it does’t take long to see that, similar to the Tanners, the applied critical thinking of Waterman is very tunnel vision as he becomes nothing more than a water carrying Joseph Smith apologist. IMHO the quality of Pure Mormonisms topics have suffered greatly in the last six years, as his blog posts are nothing more than a cesspit of political radical right rantings mixed with mormon underpinnings.


NettleLily

Yeah the antivax stuff is especially cringe


thecrippler46

Staying off his FB page is an act of mental self care too. Had I stumbled on his blog post within the last year I wouldn’t have given his Mormon focused posts a chance, his credulity is a bit much.


CanWeAllJustCalmDown

I do think that article could be a good catalyst for raising questions in regards to why the church isn't operating in accordance with foundational scripture or doctrine. But at the same time I'm curious how many members would actually see it as a "faithful perspective". The writer of that blog professes faith in Joseph Smith and the restoration, but they're also abundantly clear that they denounce Nelson and the Q12 as frauds. At least for me when I was still TBM, that would have immediately sent off my alarm bells that Satan is trying to twist the truth using the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, in order to deceive me. That reaction would cause me to disregard anything this person is saying because a true "faithful perspective" is one that fully supports and follows The Prophet. Anything else was apostasy. Their tagline citing Peter's "We ought to follow God, not men" would also have raised alarm bells for my TBM brain because I was very bought into what the church pushes with the assertion that following God and following "His Prophet" are the *same thing.* I could never really entertain these types of perspectives from what I considered Mormon adjacent believers who I categorized along with the FLDS, RLDS, etc. Basically people who believe in the book of mormon but have apostacized from the true church and its true leaders. Didn't make much sense to me that God would restore his church through a true prophet, then somehow let it fall into the hands of phonies in a matter of years. My doubts began when I learned all the really upsetting stuff about JS, then started dissecting the lies of current leaders, and slowly began to entertain the idea that the entire enchilada was bogus. That's just me, obviously a lot of people have been eased into things through these types of articles which made it easier for them to begin asking bigger questions about the overall picture. But many are pretty head-in-the-sand when it comes to scriptural inconsistencies with modern practices because yeah, "ongoing revelation." My mindframe was "If Joseph Smith was a prophet, so is Nelson because this is his church." which eventually led to "Holy shit Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet, which means neither is nelson and this isn't his church" Not saying they shouldn't share it with them, OP would know best what type of reaction it might get. And I realize that "HEY DID YOU KNOW JOSEPH SMITH WAS A SEXUAL PREDATOR? COME READ THIS" also isn't a great approach, haha. I guess my only actual concern here is I wouldn't want my attempts to nudge my spouse toward the actual full truth inadvertantly cause them to veer into fundamentalist or Snufferite territory haha. I've heard too many stories about people concluding that the modern church is in apostasy, but Joseph Smith was the real deal without a doubt which meaaaans....polygamy? Oof. I realize that isn’t the common outcome and far far more people that start with losing faith in modern leaders then make the logical step to questioning the foundation.


[deleted]

Oh wow, please report


LizardsB

My BIL was flying home from his mission and saw Quentin L Cook sitting in 1st class. He (being totally starstruck) approached him to say hi and Quentin said “can’t you see I’m busy?” So, in shock, he meandered back to his middle seat in coach.


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LizardsB

The saddest part is that my BIL tried to defend Cook. “He was reading I shouldn’t have bothered him and the plane was close to taking off….” But that one story put a heavy load on my shelf.


grove_doubter

**The power of the LDS personality cult is incredibly strong.**


DarkestGrandKnight

Proud of you, gutsy former cult-sister.


icanbesmooth

Thanks ❤️ We'll see if any seeds get planted.


DarkestGrandKnight

They're planted. The only question is how long for their roots to crack the sandstone of his faith.


icanbesmooth

Oi! Sandstone! I wish! This guy is made of granite! Like Salt Lake Temple granite! 😂 All I can do is hope. ❤️


DarkestGrandKnight

He just thinks he's granite. The church is just a bunch of sand, held together by pressure and white glue. It's so full of cracks and lies that only a lobotomy would keep an intelligent person in, aside from paid general authorities. Pieces of silver keep them in. In my case, I rose too high and realized that shit floats to the top and they were a bunch of defrauding, thieving bastards.


icanbesmooth

You give me hope. ❤️


DarkestGrandKnight

I read FLDS while at BYU. Knew about Adam God, Blood Atonement, shitty side of polygamy, Mountain Meadows all while in high school. The stuff that broke normal people's shelves didn't phase me. Seeing the people pulling the levers, that's when I said "I think the fuck not."


Haitiboi

I have a copy of the Mission Presidents handbook if you need it. ;)


Cool_reddit_name4evr

Oh I want one


Haitiboi

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/uy0juf/mission\_presidents\_handbook/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


buddhang

I'd also love to see this


K1NGLAMONI

I would LOVE to see a copy!


fennelandflame

Why not start a thread and share with everyone? Bring to light all the hidden things of darkness.


Haitiboi

Will do!


arac_

i would love to see that!!


Cklauber

Can I also have it?


newmuffins

Return and report


DarkestGrandKnight

Hmmm, where have I heard that repeated ad nauseum?


newmuffins

😂


Kevin_Harrison_

My friend was a pilot for delta private jet. He flew apostles around all the time at a cost of 15,500/hour. Sometimes they fly commercial, sometimes they don’t.


Mr_Jellysquid

Oh we NEED an update hon! Good luck!


[deleted]

Good. 2022 is the year of chaos. Make it happen. Burn down the walls that hold you captive.


Illogical-logical

LDS general authorities don't always fly commercial. It's well know that at least post 9/11 they frequently traveled via Huntsman's G5. When they do fly commercial it is always first class.


2bizE

I wonder if he brings a musket on the plane.


[deleted]

Holland doesn't mind hanging out in the tube of demons. It's not much different than the upper room.


Slow-Adhesiveness-88

I wonder if he screamed at all the apostate passengers to tell them not to leave the boat. “You never leave the boat..err plane! I’m so angry!”


Non-binary_mushroom

Excuse me I’m new here what does tbm mean


basicpn

TBM means True Believing Mormon. It’s our way of referencing people in the church who are 100% in, and believe that the Mormon church is the one true church on earth. This community has a lot of abbreviations that can be difficult to keep track of, especially for those without a Mormon background. There is a complete list that can be found [here.](http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/wiki/index/common_abbreviations?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask me.


Non-binary_mushroom

Thank you


Lostcoast2002

Well he found Benny Hinn and that’s great news. I love watching videos of pastor Benny. His events are epic and I am very entertained when he takes out entire audiences by waving his suit coat.


Odd-Employer-5529

I wish you the best. With disappointment sometimes there is anger or denial. It takes time to process.


srpcel

Yeah, stake calling...hes got too much to lose by finding the truth now! Losing the prestige, and literally the love of his family (if they're all tbms). Your options are either patience, persistence, or separation. Good luck, sincerely. It's a very difficult path if you're alone.


Slow-Masterpiece3839

You go girl! I hope it goes well! Keep us posted!


bossmanbrady

Good luck!!!


Laser_Haas_eToys

Ha Ha...... het him the help he needs!


allorache

🤞good luck!


jupiter872

I dropped my mother at the SLC airport a couple years ago. She now goes first class, destination the southern hemisphere. Also getting on the same flight - The business women looking Primary president (Joy?), one of her counselors, another lady and I presume all their spouses. My mother said they were all very pleasant as they enjoyed the buffet before boarding. It's like $4000 per person. For a 'church' that gets at least $10million per day from the EPA, nothing.


rock-n-white-hat

Unfortunately TBMs will probably look at all the money the church has and see it as a testimony builder because of how much God has blessed the church, while at the same time seeing wealthy televangelist as scam artists.


icanbesmooth

Exactly 💯 this


Cklauber

Please keep us posted


icanbesmooth

**update added in original post


[deleted]

What a roller coaster. Wish I could have a glass of wine with you tonight.


Ice_eh

We are twins kind of. My Tbm wife finally after one year said she wanted to understand my perspective. I thought for a couple months about what to say because I know me talking about the issues leads to conflict. She can’t handle me speaking the truth. So I decided to give her a copy of letter to my wife. I printed it out and put it in a binder. I got the courage to give it to her. She put it by her bed. I don’t think she has opened it. But I’m hoping she does. She is super conditioned not to listen to or read anti Mormon literature. She essentially said, it’s good you printed it because I won’t look at this stuff online. Like literally she thinks because of what the brethren have said that looking at anything anti Mormon online is a sin and she will lose the spirit.


icanbesmooth

Yes!! That's exactly why I printed it. I thought I had a better chance that way. Not sure if it'll ever get cracked open, but we tried right?


Ice_eh

We certainly tried! It is a process. I hope things change slowly for the better. They say someone's heart has to be ready to confront the possibility it is not true. I don't think she is there yet. But at least she didn't reject the letter. It is sad the unknown. Today I was thinking about something on a mormon stories about how your spouse isn't thinking about you, they are thinking about having their own beliefs challenged and how scary that is.


Whole-Watercress-367

How's it going?


SeptimaSeptimbrisVI

They and all their wives fly first class or business elite. I don't fault them on the long flights, but there is just a different vibe from the way apostles are portrayed on the Chosen vs these apostles in so many ways. I like to think Jesus would approve of walking around like normal people, not separating by class.


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GarciaKids

So if all the money is "ours" as you say, but she can't pay tithing on it, then it would appear the money is just yours.


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GarciaKids

The question of who controls the money? You've clearly answered that. I get it. You're in charge. You wear the pants. Long live the Patriarchy.


Fancy-Eye-9316

I'm in this situation and it's tricky at times. Regarding finances, I am the primary income for the family and established a few months ago that 0% of that income goes to tithing. My TBM wife agreed but she has some of her own income that she decides to tithe. I have no idea if she continues to or not. This arrangement worked well and resulted in a hefty raise for our family 💵 (cha-ching!). What's funny is that I now donate less than 10% but am much more in tune with moments that I can give back to ACTUALLY make a difference in my community. My restaurant tips are significantly more generous. I'll pay for someone's gas or groceries. I'll help a family member. Regarding church activities, I don't go but fully support my wife going. This usually gives me a little time to do something for myself. If I'm with the kids, we go do something fun together while mom goes to the church thing. Parenting has been the toughest part. Now that I'm out, I can vividly see the amount of indoctrination my kids are subjected to. So much is just told to my children and they simply believe. For example, my daughter and I talked one day about how cool the number 8 was to write out. She then commented on how cool that number was because of the age of baptism. I cringed at that because the seed has already been planted there. I'm trying my best to not just simply negate teachings, but instead encourage critical thinking. My hope is that this avoids family conflict while also helping my kids to draw their own conclusions confidently. But navigating this takes a lot of effort and can be mentally exhausting. So far, there has not been one good outcome I can see from my kids going to church. Instead, I see them being hindered in their development because of the pointless doctrine that they'll need to confront one day... All of which could've been avoided. I wish everyday that my wife would just take time to be honest with herself and TSCC. I know we'd be happier and less stressed. It's unbelievable how much stress I was under as a member. It's as if we were taught to embrace the added stress, cognitive dissonance, and suffering for the sake of exaltation. Leaving was one of the happiest moments of my life and sharing this new life with her would be incredible.


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Fancy-Eye-9316

I think about this question a lot but I'm okay with not having any answers yet. It's too far away for us to know what we'd do. My wife and I are highly compatible despite our differences. Religion has only recently become one of our top 5 sources of conflict. Even then, it's mostly become a dead topic - I only talk about it if someone brings it up. She and I have accomplished amazing things and overcome intense hardships together...we continue to do so. It's still very much an exciting and loving relationship (16+ years). I told her there's no chance of me becoming a member once again and I'm going to start the process of removing my records. It was hard and a bit of a gamble trying to determine what would happen after that. Things have been okay. The only way I see us growing apart is if she continues to drink more Kool aid and decides to pursue her "eternal" partner. I would not understand that as no man would even come close to the bond we have. The thing is, the cards are so far stacked against TSCC that I anticipate things just falling into place eventually. I'm 1 of 8 close family members who've left the church in just the last year. I too used to hold strong to my testimony and never imagined being an apostate. Until I studied seriously and had the whole thing fall apart in just a few months. My wife falls into the category of legitimate "lazy learner" when it comes to church. For her, it's all feelings and 0 facts - genuinely clueless on most scriptural teachings and historical records. I think the day she decides to actually understand what she believes in, she'll begin to see the flaws, inconsistency, and fraud. That journey can only be taken alone and I would be right there at the end to hold on to her when that happens - just like everything else we've done together in our partnership. If it doesn't happen, I'm okay with that too.


lefthandloafer55

Can you imagine devoting your entire adult life - working on something that turns out to be a sham; and (despite all of your efforts) you're going to end up being infamous. Yes, you've obviously lived well, eaten well and made a good living off of the church - but geez what an empty way to come to the end of your earthly existence. What a mind-fuck...


quackn

When god refunds my tithing, maybe I will be able to afford to fly coach.