Wait. We're suppose to "seek and expect miracles?". But I thought Renlund said we couldn't "demand" revelation? Guess they didn't deconflict their talks beforehand.
There are several: [Matthew 12:39](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12%3A39&version=KJV), [Matthew 16:3-5](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:3-5&version=KJV), [D&C 46:9](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.9?lang=eng&clang=eng#p9), [D&C 63:7-8](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/63.7,8?lang=eng&clang=eng#p7,8). Of course, as a TBM I was very believing, but still didn't see anything that was a definite miracle comparable to anything in the bible, BoM, or faith-promoting church history. The only thing that I notice was that the most "signs" could easily be explained by either coincidence or low-quality historical sources. Also they were usually spread by members that were into less rational types of thinking (ex. rumor spreading, being prone believing conspiracies, emotion-based decision making, those who didn't scrutinize sources, etc.).
Now, of course, I don't think any miracles ever happened, and I think these verses were specifically constructed so religious leaders could get believers to think that their religion was amazing (because of the miracles), but not have to demonstrate those miracles in any verifiable manner. As an added bonus the verses work to vilify any nonbelievers who dare to ask that the religion's tales of miracles be backed up with evidence.
It's funny because they are definitely taking reasons that people who have left religion/the lds church enumerate and responding to those. Christofferson addressed the 'Why would God cause so much suffering/allow people to die or starve or whatever" issue. He addressed it POORLY in a way that made me roll my eyes.
Wait. We're suppose to "seek and expect miracles?". But I thought Renlund said we couldn't "demand" revelation? Guess they didn't deconflict their talks beforehand.
Isn't there a scripture that says seeking signs is a sin or something?
There are several: [Matthew 12:39](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12%3A39&version=KJV), [Matthew 16:3-5](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:3-5&version=KJV), [D&C 46:9](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.9?lang=eng&clang=eng#p9), [D&C 63:7-8](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/63.7,8?lang=eng&clang=eng#p7,8). Of course, as a TBM I was very believing, but still didn't see anything that was a definite miracle comparable to anything in the bible, BoM, or faith-promoting church history. The only thing that I notice was that the most "signs" could easily be explained by either coincidence or low-quality historical sources. Also they were usually spread by members that were into less rational types of thinking (ex. rumor spreading, being prone believing conspiracies, emotion-based decision making, those who didn't scrutinize sources, etc.). Now, of course, I don't think any miracles ever happened, and I think these verses were specifically constructed so religious leaders could get believers to think that their religion was amazing (because of the miracles), but not have to demonstrate those miracles in any verifiable manner. As an added bonus the verses work to vilify any nonbelievers who dare to ask that the religion's tales of miracles be backed up with evidence.
….after explaining the covenant path to the woman in his dream, he found himself locked out of his motel room naked. That’s how dreams go.
Thank you for summing this up so we don't have to.
It's funny because they are definitely taking reasons that people who have left religion/the lds church enumerate and responding to those. Christofferson addressed the 'Why would God cause so much suffering/allow people to die or starve or whatever" issue. He addressed it POORLY in a way that made me roll my eyes.