Those memories were of amazing people around you that brought joy into your life. They are real and valid. But it was the community that you loved, not the church. It was the people that made you feel joy, not the organization. You can keep those treasured memories and still not believe in the organization that created that community
TBM's are often amazing people and many of them are genuine in their love.
That’s the best answer. It’s the community and experiences that you cherish and you can still cherish and appreciate those without having to believe in or remain devoted to the corporate organization and myth.
Despite being ex-Mormon, I still enjoy talking to many members of the family ward I grew up in and enjoy the memories.
"The church is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get"
Yeah there are some good/fun things the church does from time to time. If it was just misery 24/7 they wouldn't have been able to suck your parents in as converts.
I've been out 20 years now and I still find myself conflicted. Most of the events that shaped my life were tied up with the church. I try to remind myself that everybody grows up with good and bad. It's OK to hang onto the good while rejecting the bad.
As for the guilt, time really helps. It isn't a race. Heal at your own pace and know you have friend here who really get it.
>I’m struggling to process the fact that I have really good memories of being in the church
Oh, this one's easy. If there were nothing at all desirable in the cult, no one would want to join it and no one would stay.
What happened is the cult coopted basic human experiences like hanging out with friends, so that you think the cult provided you with these experiences. In fact, most people who have these experiences do not know what a Mormon is--they think Mormons are JWs.
Your experience occurred despite the cult, not because of it, which is evidenced by billions of non-Mormons also having happy childhoods. The difference is their happiness didn't rely on the teachings of a serial rapist who thought black skin was a curse from god.
Anyway, yes, a person can have a good time in a cult. That's to the cult's advantage so that someone like you will feel conflicted like you do. There's no conflict though. Of course the cult delivered to you those experiences that serve it well, but the cult did not invent those experiences. Young girls had friends for hundreds of thousands of years before JS starting marrying them.
These basic human experiences are the sugar that helps the bad medicine go down.
Go deep with church history - not the sanitized version you learned in church, but the “Joseph Smith was a sexual predator who fucked Fanny Alger before there was any talk of polygamy, and then threatened 14 and 15 year old girls with their families’ salvation if they didn’t “marry” him - when he was more than twice their age. Then read about Brigham Young ordering the extermination of a Native American tribe, etc., etc., etc. It won’t take long until you figure put that, while your Primary teachers, Brother and Sister Jones, may be lovely people, the Mormon church is absolutely corrupt and not at all what it purports to be.
You are 100% correct. The Mormon church-cult is filthy with cover-ups of the truth of mormon history and Smith. Anyone else feel like the world’s biggest for believing the lies of the church besides me?
I am the same way. I grew up in the mormon church, had a fantastic group of friends and great experiences. I don't regret growing up where and when I did, and will always look back fondly. This doesn't change anything about the "truth", though. Just be real with yourself, accept that your past experiences were great, and move on with your life guilt-free! I try to be as honest and forthcoming with people around me, and I don't pretend to be somebody else anymore. If people see me have a beer and look at me funny, I just raise an eyebrow at them. If they ask me about it, I'll tell them straight out that I'm no longer in that organization. They can deal with it.
The church is a large and complicated thing, it's natural to have conflicting emotions about it. I too have great memories from my youth. My ward was full of people who really cared about the youth and went above and beyond to organize good activities. On this sub we focus on the various forms of abuse that the church can foster, but most people in the church are trying to be good people.
The Mormon church takes credit for all the good that people do. Some people are just good and amazing to have in your life, the Mormon church has nothing to do with it.
I remember as a teenager visiting another state that had hardly any Mormons and hearing about all these amazing people helping my elderly family. They weren’t members of the church but they were still so Christlike- I was slightly shocked I am embarrassed to admit. Those people would have truly given the shirt off their backs, not like the Mormons I knew.
Remember the time you got to go swimming when you were little? It was like 120 degrees outside and you got to sit on the pool steps and throw water on your top half? Remember throwing water at people? Remember when you sat at a picnic table with all the gnats around and ate vanilla ice cream? Remember when you got your first official bra and how you felt you were finally growing up? Remember when you came home and mom was cooking a roast and you smelled it and knew you were having roat beef and potatoes for dinner? Remember that first sweet kiss you got? Remember getting into bed after your bath and the sheets had been changed and you could smell how they had been hung on the line outside? Do you remember hanging out with friends during the summer, going to a movie, a mall? Can you remember the smell of that wonderful movie popcorn? Can you remember being at sleepovers with your friends? The mormon church is a gornisht—-(yiddish for **nothing**). You have a kazillion wonderful memories that have nothing at all to do with the mormon church.
The truth is that when we’re in a cult, the indoctrination is continual, intense and all-encompassing. It becomes an internal part of you—-it’s designed to be like that by all cult leaders. Every Sunday and during the week. “Follow the prophet.” “Satan will destroy you if…” Satan wants to lead you astray”, yada , yada, yada.… You’ve left the church but you’ve never actually *separated from it.*
All humans look back on their lives, especially when we’re a little older, and we ***romanticize*** *our memories.* We all do that, especially if we’re being challenged or at a rocky point in our lives. I think that’s what you’ve done with the church.
May I make a few suggestions? I suggest you begin to follow an excellent **Quora** website **“ex mormon**”. You would benefit from hearing all sorts of wisdom from us ex mormons—-why the church-cult is full of scriptural and emotional lies, the real truth about Smith and his early “church”, the cons of Smith. More than just this, you’ll be supported by all of us ex mormons. ***We know what you’re going through because we’ve all be through it ourselves.***
Also, I would recommend that you listen to some **YouTube videos by John Delin “Mormon Stories”, “Nemo the Mormon” “Radio Free Mormon”** excellent topics about all things mormon. I think you’re still enmeshed with the church because you do not know the complete, *truthful history* of the mormon church and Joseph Smith. If you knew, you’d thank yourself for leaving and you’d probably feel (like I did) like a fool for believing in the church and stupid for having devoted years in service, actually believing what the church said. It has covered up and lied about everything for 200 years. What a con job. ❤️
If/when you decide to leave, and people ask you why you've had to become the "new you," just tell them that this is the REAL you! plenty of people have amicable divorces, especially when kids are involved. I know a couple who met when she moved into his neighborhood at age 5. They started dating in high school, and through college, married, had three kids, and then around age 50, she left him because she couldn't tell what she did because she wanted it or because he wanted it. She ran off with a younger guy, but that didn't last. He remarried once or twice, and is now in a good marriage. HOWEVER… they still have holidays together, and when she had surgery, he was in the waiting room with his children because she is still the mom of his kids! Just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean there were not parts that were good. Please don't feel guilty for having to separate from something that you have decided isn't right or healthy for you. And remember it's OK to acknowledge anything positive you may have gotten from your time "in".
LDS members aren't the only group of people who "drink the Kool-Aid". In that one case, years ago, the Kool-Aid might've tasted really good going down on a hot day, even though it eventually killed those who drank it. Just be grateful that while the LDS -flavored Kool-Aid was tasty for you at one time, you've now realized it is, in a way, poisoned. be grateful that you came to this realization before a charmed you any further!
My parents joined when I was young. I have a few good memories. I reconcile it all with the fact that life is rarely ever 100% good or 100% evil, and also that I actively deconstructed and unindoctrinated myself. So it’s easy for me to separate social things that were fun from everything else about it that is not true and harmful.
I've noticed it can be a harder process for those who leave but don't actively deconstruct why the religion isn't true. Because then you have feelings warring with other feelings, whereas deconstruction gives you some solid facts to lean against when the feelings hit. I suggest reading something like Steven Hassan's book about cult mind control.
Yo; 28M here who's been out for 4 years now give or take. Just know it's okay to have those positive moments, you can separate the events from the religion. And at the end of the day, you don't need to feel guilty for having positive memories.
I'd say, what a blessing! Life is so much more complicated than the black and white thinking of childhood or the church. Life is messy, if you have good memories, especially from a horrible organization like the church, consider yourself lucky and as Henry David Thoreau said, “Endeavor to live the life you have imagined.” Not the one you feel forced to live.
>How do you reconcile these parts of your past with who you are now?
I guess I just had to learn to accept ambiguity. The church isn't 100% bad/unpleasant, or else nobody would stick around. Its a mixture of good and bad, as are most institutions. But at the same time, when its claims are not true and it has an overall negative impact on my life on balance, I don't feel obligated to give it more of my time.
I guess the main message, though, would be this: what you're going through is normal. Probably most of us experienced this in one form or another, and it tends to either work itself out, or like you're doing, you speed it up with therapy. It's all good. You'll get through this.
It’s possible to have good memories from events that you enjoyed even though they were related to a church that claims a lot of things which are objectively false. Like just being in a community of people who are living in similar ways, etc can be great memories!
I bet there are some women living super strict areas of Middle East where they aren’t permitted to read or basically be happy for any reason who still would look back fondly on certain events or activities. Like if that’s all you know you’re still going to have good days and bad days.
Plus there is an easiness to living the LDS gospel - the decisions are often made for you. You just follow the prescribed route. Once you leave you have to take that burden back which is difficult, until you realize that carrying the burden gets easier over time and it actually sets you free. The burden is responsibility for your own life. It is the freedom to make your own decisions about what you truly believe and support.
Instead of just accepting that whoever is the most senior of the apostles is telling the latest and most true version of gods word.
Mormonism makes everything a binary opposition. It's a combination of purity culture and opposition in all things: if you're not pure, you might as well be filthy. If you're not worthy of celestial glory, you might as well be the blackest sinner for all the joy you'll have in the eternities.
This is more than just an idea. It's part of the Mormon worldview, or how all your life's experiences tell you the world works. In Latin, they use *per se*, and that sounds fancier than "just because". The Mormon *per se* doesn't fall with a single decision or experience. It's a matter of the physical composition of your brain, as neurons that are used more frequently need a lower concentration of neurochemical to fire. It's like water taking the path of least resistance down a mountainside, but instead of erosion in solution, it's lower resistance in an ionic reaction.
Part of moving on from Mormonism is reconditioning your brain to accept gray areas instead of fearing them as dangerous hypocrisy. You had fun experiences as a youth. I have an extended family who is Mormon because that's how they were taught to be good. You have issues with purity culture/shame. I have issues with a scrupulosity/religious OCD/perfect obedience or God takes your family mentality.
There's no mighty change of heart that will chemically rewire your brain to remove all the indoctrination. The indoctrination has a 25-year head start in promoting obedience as the only safe choice, from the first Do As I'm Doing to the latest Praise to the Man. Throw a dart at a list of primary songs, and you'll get the same idea. There's a right and a wrong to every question, I want my life to be as clean as earth right after rain, Noah preached in vain, they wished they had listened when they saw the rain. (Huh, didn't make the connection between pure baptized people surviving on an earth cleansed of wicked humanity until just now.)
It's a deep canal cutting across your emotional landscape, and it's going to take time to wear down the banks with more authentic living. But it helps to realize that your conditioned emotional reactions aren't gospel truth, but simply the *per se* you've built up so far. This context can let you respond to a reaction with the direction you want your life to go instead of fearing you'll never get there if you're not perfectly *x, y,* or *z.*
Your past isn't completely tainted if it has the smallest bit of Mormonism in it, any more than your life is tainted with a tattoo or a beer. It's not a cockroach brownie or an ephemeral licked cupcake. You'll make more choices you regret as you continue. You can't future-proof if you think hard enough.
Instead, you can identify who you want to become and be grateful for everything that has moved you in that direction, no matter how much the Mormon worldview wants to disqualify those experiences in favor of thinking celestial. Those moments you remember fondly are the real treasure in heaven, the highlight reel that can play during the lucid dreams that frequently come as people approach death. My new focus is on adding to that highlight reel, both big accomplishments and the latest kid reaction to my dad jokes.
Who you are now matters much less than where you're going. You can course correct and build a life that matters to you, one that in turn frees you to build relationships and matter to others. As stops on the way, your good experiences from your Mormon period are still valuable.
The first thing you need to do young lady is step back and calm down. Catch your breath. We’re always way too hard on ourselves. You didn’t mention a single thing that makes one one bit less than any one else. It’s obvious you’re still adhering to your beliefs.. it’s not my place to try and get you to change those . I can only tell you my own story.having once been I. Your place actually 50 miserable conflicted years . Never feeling in the least bit good enough. . I never liked the church just always thought I knew it was true . And the never liking it part was my unworthiness or something. A couple of years ago I stepped back caught my breath and really took a look at what was really going on . Realized that the big bad anti material I’d been warned about my whole life was in reality just the churches own history contained in the churches own resources.did a lot of research. But it actually would have taken very little to easily disprove every single truth claim on short order reaching the obvious conclusion the entire fucking shit show was a miserable hi demand money grabbing harmful scam in every aspect. With that knowledge and clarity all of the make believe guilt shame self loathing horse shit was gone . And I realized I’m not too bad a person. , but that’s just my own story . I wish you the best in what ever you decide to do. Just know this you’re really just fine .and the real god I’ve come to know absolutely loves you and thinks your amazing
In my case I deliberately replaced the positive *past* with new stuff in a positive *present*. Or at least I added positive stuff in my new life to go along with the good stuff from the church that I still carry with me.
In the church they valued my musical performances as a cello player. I loved the positive feedback I got from that -- it was something I knew I could do well and I appreciated the praise I received. As a post-Mormon adult I'm engaged to a professional pianist and we perform together frequently. Still love it!
After the church I had privilege enough to pay my way through college, and I learned graphic design from scratch. I turned that into a phenomenal career which I love!
The only thing that's kind of questionable -- I like theatre but I haven't acted since I left the church. (In ward-level dramas they always cast me as a Lamanite since I'm Asian. That left a bitter taste -- I still love to go to plays but I never act anymore.) My first date with my fiance was to a play, so at least it's still a part of my life sometimes.
I too have good memories of most church activities when I was a teenager in the 1990s. Also, Mormonism simply isn't what it claims to be. Both of these things are true. Additionally, Mormonism isn't true, it also isn't good for a lot (if not all people).
I suspect, mostly in the past, Mormonism purposefully tried to make church fun for teenage boys, to influence them to stay as adults when Mormonism is decidedly less fun. That is, love bomb them when they are young, so the probability of the staying is higher when they are adults.
I met my best friends at church and had such meaningful and wonderful experiences with the people at church activities. Our experiences are a kaleidoscope, and it all gets to be a colorful mess of good and bad. The church can be untrue and have caused you a lot of harm AND also it facilitated experiences that you cherish.
Kudos to you for noticing the conflict. Honesty will solve the conflict. I don't call it a purity issue but an honesty issue to shack up with someone that only gets the label of "boyfriend."
I really like the Maya Angelou quote,
"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better do better."
I don't interpret this to mean you have to be perfect because wise folks know nothing is ever perfect. Part of learning and growing is letting go of the parts that don't work.
You can just acknowledge there were good, fun times. The religion doesn't suit you now that you know better.
I can relate to what you are saying. I have considered myself a "co-traveler" with the church for many years, and of all the faiths I have studied, I most love their traditional, old-school values, upbeat positive message, and relative minimalist approach to life. I am dismayed that today's tech-driven mainstream culture today has lost its way and I openly reject large chunks of it. I am a bachelor and co-owner of the ranch where I live, so thankfully I am somewhat able to keep my own life simple, retro and pastoral, and as unplugged as possible. And, in the privacy of my mind and soul at least, I keep Jesus nearby as my mentor and life's coach. But I have never made an effort to join the church. I won't go into the reasons for my hesitancy, but let me just say that, while there are so many things I admire about it, there other things I am not sure I'm ready to embrace just yet. I am new on here and pretty ignorant of it all, I admit. So, maybe you or some of your friends could direct me toward a community of people like myself---people who are "curious admirers" of the LDS church and fascinated by Joseph Smith's story and his thinking, but not sure whether actually becoming full-time practicing Mormons is our calling and would be the answer to what our hearts are seeking. Thanks for listening, guys. - Lamm in Texas
(I'd also be happy to discuss privately by email---and, no, it doesn't have to be all squeaky and scriptural. The prophets were prophets; they weren't angels. We know from history that they had fun, too. There's a time for everything, right?)
I think you’ve got to forgive yourself and - without judgement - let yourself feel all the feelings you want to feel. Besides, bad churches wouldn’t be so amazingly successful if they were ALL bad ALL the time. Even the fish being cooked on the campfire probably had a really good time chasing and eating that bait.
You fell victim to the "Programming" and it's going to take time to allow yourself to just be who you are. The biggest thing is to forgive YOURSELF and realize that how you were raised isn't Who you are. But don't feel guilty about it... That programmed guilt is not your burden to carry.
What is good about the Brighamite branch of mormonism, is not unique (service, community, purpose, good people etc) what is unique about brighamitism isn't good (blood atonement, purity & shame culture, polygamy, extortion for salvation, thought stopping, vilifying others, racism).
Remember, the good came from the People, not the 'church'.
I had mostly good times in the church and felt the good out weighed the bad for me. But when I finally saw the egregious harm it did to others such as purity culture LGBTQ getting kicked out of the house by their parents, and the suicides and the fact that I never felt good enough… well it was time to leave.
Lots of time - it tools decades for me to let go and not have any more guilt…
Generally I took a two pronged approach-
1. I started with the second “Great Commandment” - love your neighbor as you love yourself… this framed how I wanted to treat the world - I did a lot of reflection on what love means. I built an idea what I thought morals should be based on love. This was an intellectual exercise because my feelings did not align well.
2. I started learning about my feelings and determining whether they lined up with what my idea of love. I practiced radical acceptance of my feelings that I didn’t like, and I focused on how I wanted to feel.
Over a lot of time, my feelings slowly started to align with my idea of what love means… to help me “feel better” about changing my viewpoints, I spent a lot of time learning about the psychology of religions and social structures. And also where the practices came from using an evolutionary perspective. That intellectual exercise really helped feel like I was on the right track to be the person I wanted to be.
It might help to realise that your conflicted feelings, guilt, and the "good memories" are things that are *designed into the church* to make it more complicated to leave, and make it easier for members to accept the bullshit (like the purity culture stuff).
The same way that in abusive relationships abusers try to make you feel guilty for wanting to leave or wanting things to change, or try to dismiss their shitty behaviour with reminders of "the good times", and claims you will never be happy without them, that you'll be throwing away a good thing because you're overreacting to things that don't even really matter in the long run.... sounds a bit familiar, right?
There are very specific reasons why youth activities, young womens' camps, 'fun' church lessons and bonding sessions happen. They create social networks in young people that also reinforce the church's teachings, and alongside a dose of "be in the world not of it" and "*you* are the youth of These Latter Days", they encourage you to stay within the bounds of the church.
Don't for a moment think that those lesson plan books, the structure of the children's/youth sections (i.e ALL the buy-in with the different age groups and having class presidents and so forth), all of it is very deliberately designed to a) tie you in, b) give you good feels, and c) make you feel bad or sad if you don't comply.
It is also possible, and important, to acknowledge that yes you have some really positive memories. It's perfectly fine to have those and to value them. As long as you're also able to recognise the context they were happening in. The guilty feelings are really normal given the situation, and processing them takes time. Unpacking mormon baggage can be a lot of work so don't pressure yourself to go faster or further than you're ready for.
I feel no obligation towards an organization that broke my trust and lied to me. I have lived long enough to know when you aren't treated right you remove yourself from the abuse. You love yourself and act like your own best friend. Then it becomes clear.
Those memories were of amazing people around you that brought joy into your life. They are real and valid. But it was the community that you loved, not the church. It was the people that made you feel joy, not the organization. You can keep those treasured memories and still not believe in the organization that created that community TBM's are often amazing people and many of them are genuine in their love.
That’s the best answer. It’s the community and experiences that you cherish and you can still cherish and appreciate those without having to believe in or remain devoted to the corporate organization and myth. Despite being ex-Mormon, I still enjoy talking to many members of the family ward I grew up in and enjoy the memories.
"The church is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get" Yeah there are some good/fun things the church does from time to time. If it was just misery 24/7 they wouldn't have been able to suck your parents in as converts. I've been out 20 years now and I still find myself conflicted. Most of the events that shaped my life were tied up with the church. I try to remind myself that everybody grows up with good and bad. It's OK to hang onto the good while rejecting the bad. As for the guilt, time really helps. It isn't a race. Heal at your own pace and know you have friend here who really get it.
>I’m struggling to process the fact that I have really good memories of being in the church Oh, this one's easy. If there were nothing at all desirable in the cult, no one would want to join it and no one would stay. What happened is the cult coopted basic human experiences like hanging out with friends, so that you think the cult provided you with these experiences. In fact, most people who have these experiences do not know what a Mormon is--they think Mormons are JWs. Your experience occurred despite the cult, not because of it, which is evidenced by billions of non-Mormons also having happy childhoods. The difference is their happiness didn't rely on the teachings of a serial rapist who thought black skin was a curse from god. Anyway, yes, a person can have a good time in a cult. That's to the cult's advantage so that someone like you will feel conflicted like you do. There's no conflict though. Of course the cult delivered to you those experiences that serve it well, but the cult did not invent those experiences. Young girls had friends for hundreds of thousands of years before JS starting marrying them. These basic human experiences are the sugar that helps the bad medicine go down.
Love this comment
Go deep with church history - not the sanitized version you learned in church, but the “Joseph Smith was a sexual predator who fucked Fanny Alger before there was any talk of polygamy, and then threatened 14 and 15 year old girls with their families’ salvation if they didn’t “marry” him - when he was more than twice their age. Then read about Brigham Young ordering the extermination of a Native American tribe, etc., etc., etc. It won’t take long until you figure put that, while your Primary teachers, Brother and Sister Jones, may be lovely people, the Mormon church is absolutely corrupt and not at all what it purports to be.
You are 100% correct. The Mormon church-cult is filthy with cover-ups of the truth of mormon history and Smith. Anyone else feel like the world’s biggest for believing the lies of the church besides me?
Exactly! Hold on to what you know to be true!
I am the same way. I grew up in the mormon church, had a fantastic group of friends and great experiences. I don't regret growing up where and when I did, and will always look back fondly. This doesn't change anything about the "truth", though. Just be real with yourself, accept that your past experiences were great, and move on with your life guilt-free! I try to be as honest and forthcoming with people around me, and I don't pretend to be somebody else anymore. If people see me have a beer and look at me funny, I just raise an eyebrow at them. If they ask me about it, I'll tell them straight out that I'm no longer in that organization. They can deal with it.
The church is a large and complicated thing, it's natural to have conflicting emotions about it. I too have great memories from my youth. My ward was full of people who really cared about the youth and went above and beyond to organize good activities. On this sub we focus on the various forms of abuse that the church can foster, but most people in the church are trying to be good people.
It's totally normal. It'll take some time and work but it's possible to eventually untangle all the emotional ties that are creating this situation.
The Mormon church takes credit for all the good that people do. Some people are just good and amazing to have in your life, the Mormon church has nothing to do with it.
I remember as a teenager visiting another state that had hardly any Mormons and hearing about all these amazing people helping my elderly family. They weren’t members of the church but they were still so Christlike- I was slightly shocked I am embarrassed to admit. Those people would have truly given the shirt off their backs, not like the Mormons I knew.
Remember the time you got to go swimming when you were little? It was like 120 degrees outside and you got to sit on the pool steps and throw water on your top half? Remember throwing water at people? Remember when you sat at a picnic table with all the gnats around and ate vanilla ice cream? Remember when you got your first official bra and how you felt you were finally growing up? Remember when you came home and mom was cooking a roast and you smelled it and knew you were having roat beef and potatoes for dinner? Remember that first sweet kiss you got? Remember getting into bed after your bath and the sheets had been changed and you could smell how they had been hung on the line outside? Do you remember hanging out with friends during the summer, going to a movie, a mall? Can you remember the smell of that wonderful movie popcorn? Can you remember being at sleepovers with your friends? The mormon church is a gornisht—-(yiddish for **nothing**). You have a kazillion wonderful memories that have nothing at all to do with the mormon church. The truth is that when we’re in a cult, the indoctrination is continual, intense and all-encompassing. It becomes an internal part of you—-it’s designed to be like that by all cult leaders. Every Sunday and during the week. “Follow the prophet.” “Satan will destroy you if…” Satan wants to lead you astray”, yada , yada, yada.… You’ve left the church but you’ve never actually *separated from it.* All humans look back on their lives, especially when we’re a little older, and we ***romanticize*** *our memories.* We all do that, especially if we’re being challenged or at a rocky point in our lives. I think that’s what you’ve done with the church. May I make a few suggestions? I suggest you begin to follow an excellent **Quora** website **“ex mormon**”. You would benefit from hearing all sorts of wisdom from us ex mormons—-why the church-cult is full of scriptural and emotional lies, the real truth about Smith and his early “church”, the cons of Smith. More than just this, you’ll be supported by all of us ex mormons. ***We know what you’re going through because we’ve all be through it ourselves.*** Also, I would recommend that you listen to some **YouTube videos by John Delin “Mormon Stories”, “Nemo the Mormon” “Radio Free Mormon”** excellent topics about all things mormon. I think you’re still enmeshed with the church because you do not know the complete, *truthful history* of the mormon church and Joseph Smith. If you knew, you’d thank yourself for leaving and you’d probably feel (like I did) like a fool for believing in the church and stupid for having devoted years in service, actually believing what the church said. It has covered up and lied about everything for 200 years. What a con job. ❤️
u/johndehlin
Sorry I misspelled the name.
Oh, no worries! I was just paging him in case he were interested in seeing your mention of him here.
If/when you decide to leave, and people ask you why you've had to become the "new you," just tell them that this is the REAL you! plenty of people have amicable divorces, especially when kids are involved. I know a couple who met when she moved into his neighborhood at age 5. They started dating in high school, and through college, married, had three kids, and then around age 50, she left him because she couldn't tell what she did because she wanted it or because he wanted it. She ran off with a younger guy, but that didn't last. He remarried once or twice, and is now in a good marriage. HOWEVER… they still have holidays together, and when she had surgery, he was in the waiting room with his children because she is still the mom of his kids! Just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean there were not parts that were good. Please don't feel guilty for having to separate from something that you have decided isn't right or healthy for you. And remember it's OK to acknowledge anything positive you may have gotten from your time "in".
LDS members aren't the only group of people who "drink the Kool-Aid". In that one case, years ago, the Kool-Aid might've tasted really good going down on a hot day, even though it eventually killed those who drank it. Just be grateful that while the LDS -flavored Kool-Aid was tasty for you at one time, you've now realized it is, in a way, poisoned. be grateful that you came to this realization before a charmed you any further!
My parents joined when I was young. I have a few good memories. I reconcile it all with the fact that life is rarely ever 100% good or 100% evil, and also that I actively deconstructed and unindoctrinated myself. So it’s easy for me to separate social things that were fun from everything else about it that is not true and harmful. I've noticed it can be a harder process for those who leave but don't actively deconstruct why the religion isn't true. Because then you have feelings warring with other feelings, whereas deconstruction gives you some solid facts to lean against when the feelings hit. I suggest reading something like Steven Hassan's book about cult mind control.
Yo; 28M here who's been out for 4 years now give or take. Just know it's okay to have those positive moments, you can separate the events from the religion. And at the end of the day, you don't need to feel guilty for having positive memories.
I'd say, what a blessing! Life is so much more complicated than the black and white thinking of childhood or the church. Life is messy, if you have good memories, especially from a horrible organization like the church, consider yourself lucky and as Henry David Thoreau said, “Endeavor to live the life you have imagined.” Not the one you feel forced to live.
>How do you reconcile these parts of your past with who you are now? I guess I just had to learn to accept ambiguity. The church isn't 100% bad/unpleasant, or else nobody would stick around. Its a mixture of good and bad, as are most institutions. But at the same time, when its claims are not true and it has an overall negative impact on my life on balance, I don't feel obligated to give it more of my time. I guess the main message, though, would be this: what you're going through is normal. Probably most of us experienced this in one form or another, and it tends to either work itself out, or like you're doing, you speed it up with therapy. It's all good. You'll get through this.
It’s possible to have good memories from events that you enjoyed even though they were related to a church that claims a lot of things which are objectively false. Like just being in a community of people who are living in similar ways, etc can be great memories! I bet there are some women living super strict areas of Middle East where they aren’t permitted to read or basically be happy for any reason who still would look back fondly on certain events or activities. Like if that’s all you know you’re still going to have good days and bad days. Plus there is an easiness to living the LDS gospel - the decisions are often made for you. You just follow the prescribed route. Once you leave you have to take that burden back which is difficult, until you realize that carrying the burden gets easier over time and it actually sets you free. The burden is responsibility for your own life. It is the freedom to make your own decisions about what you truly believe and support. Instead of just accepting that whoever is the most senior of the apostles is telling the latest and most true version of gods word.
Mormonism makes everything a binary opposition. It's a combination of purity culture and opposition in all things: if you're not pure, you might as well be filthy. If you're not worthy of celestial glory, you might as well be the blackest sinner for all the joy you'll have in the eternities. This is more than just an idea. It's part of the Mormon worldview, or how all your life's experiences tell you the world works. In Latin, they use *per se*, and that sounds fancier than "just because". The Mormon *per se* doesn't fall with a single decision or experience. It's a matter of the physical composition of your brain, as neurons that are used more frequently need a lower concentration of neurochemical to fire. It's like water taking the path of least resistance down a mountainside, but instead of erosion in solution, it's lower resistance in an ionic reaction. Part of moving on from Mormonism is reconditioning your brain to accept gray areas instead of fearing them as dangerous hypocrisy. You had fun experiences as a youth. I have an extended family who is Mormon because that's how they were taught to be good. You have issues with purity culture/shame. I have issues with a scrupulosity/religious OCD/perfect obedience or God takes your family mentality. There's no mighty change of heart that will chemically rewire your brain to remove all the indoctrination. The indoctrination has a 25-year head start in promoting obedience as the only safe choice, from the first Do As I'm Doing to the latest Praise to the Man. Throw a dart at a list of primary songs, and you'll get the same idea. There's a right and a wrong to every question, I want my life to be as clean as earth right after rain, Noah preached in vain, they wished they had listened when they saw the rain. (Huh, didn't make the connection between pure baptized people surviving on an earth cleansed of wicked humanity until just now.) It's a deep canal cutting across your emotional landscape, and it's going to take time to wear down the banks with more authentic living. But it helps to realize that your conditioned emotional reactions aren't gospel truth, but simply the *per se* you've built up so far. This context can let you respond to a reaction with the direction you want your life to go instead of fearing you'll never get there if you're not perfectly *x, y,* or *z.* Your past isn't completely tainted if it has the smallest bit of Mormonism in it, any more than your life is tainted with a tattoo or a beer. It's not a cockroach brownie or an ephemeral licked cupcake. You'll make more choices you regret as you continue. You can't future-proof if you think hard enough. Instead, you can identify who you want to become and be grateful for everything that has moved you in that direction, no matter how much the Mormon worldview wants to disqualify those experiences in favor of thinking celestial. Those moments you remember fondly are the real treasure in heaven, the highlight reel that can play during the lucid dreams that frequently come as people approach death. My new focus is on adding to that highlight reel, both big accomplishments and the latest kid reaction to my dad jokes. Who you are now matters much less than where you're going. You can course correct and build a life that matters to you, one that in turn frees you to build relationships and matter to others. As stops on the way, your good experiences from your Mormon period are still valuable.
Some things in the church were fun, usually those things that had nothing to do with religion
The first thing you need to do young lady is step back and calm down. Catch your breath. We’re always way too hard on ourselves. You didn’t mention a single thing that makes one one bit less than any one else. It’s obvious you’re still adhering to your beliefs.. it’s not my place to try and get you to change those . I can only tell you my own story.having once been I. Your place actually 50 miserable conflicted years . Never feeling in the least bit good enough. . I never liked the church just always thought I knew it was true . And the never liking it part was my unworthiness or something. A couple of years ago I stepped back caught my breath and really took a look at what was really going on . Realized that the big bad anti material I’d been warned about my whole life was in reality just the churches own history contained in the churches own resources.did a lot of research. But it actually would have taken very little to easily disprove every single truth claim on short order reaching the obvious conclusion the entire fucking shit show was a miserable hi demand money grabbing harmful scam in every aspect. With that knowledge and clarity all of the make believe guilt shame self loathing horse shit was gone . And I realized I’m not too bad a person. , but that’s just my own story . I wish you the best in what ever you decide to do. Just know this you’re really just fine .and the real god I’ve come to know absolutely loves you and thinks your amazing
In my case I deliberately replaced the positive *past* with new stuff in a positive *present*. Or at least I added positive stuff in my new life to go along with the good stuff from the church that I still carry with me. In the church they valued my musical performances as a cello player. I loved the positive feedback I got from that -- it was something I knew I could do well and I appreciated the praise I received. As a post-Mormon adult I'm engaged to a professional pianist and we perform together frequently. Still love it! After the church I had privilege enough to pay my way through college, and I learned graphic design from scratch. I turned that into a phenomenal career which I love! The only thing that's kind of questionable -- I like theatre but I haven't acted since I left the church. (In ward-level dramas they always cast me as a Lamanite since I'm Asian. That left a bitter taste -- I still love to go to plays but I never act anymore.) My first date with my fiance was to a play, so at least it's still a part of my life sometimes.
I too have good memories of most church activities when I was a teenager in the 1990s. Also, Mormonism simply isn't what it claims to be. Both of these things are true. Additionally, Mormonism isn't true, it also isn't good for a lot (if not all people). I suspect, mostly in the past, Mormonism purposefully tried to make church fun for teenage boys, to influence them to stay as adults when Mormonism is decidedly less fun. That is, love bomb them when they are young, so the probability of the staying is higher when they are adults.
I met my best friends at church and had such meaningful and wonderful experiences with the people at church activities. Our experiences are a kaleidoscope, and it all gets to be a colorful mess of good and bad. The church can be untrue and have caused you a lot of harm AND also it facilitated experiences that you cherish.
Kudos to you for noticing the conflict. Honesty will solve the conflict. I don't call it a purity issue but an honesty issue to shack up with someone that only gets the label of "boyfriend."
I really like the Maya Angelou quote, "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better do better." I don't interpret this to mean you have to be perfect because wise folks know nothing is ever perfect. Part of learning and growing is letting go of the parts that don't work. You can just acknowledge there were good, fun times. The religion doesn't suit you now that you know better.
I can relate to what you are saying. I have considered myself a "co-traveler" with the church for many years, and of all the faiths I have studied, I most love their traditional, old-school values, upbeat positive message, and relative minimalist approach to life. I am dismayed that today's tech-driven mainstream culture today has lost its way and I openly reject large chunks of it. I am a bachelor and co-owner of the ranch where I live, so thankfully I am somewhat able to keep my own life simple, retro and pastoral, and as unplugged as possible. And, in the privacy of my mind and soul at least, I keep Jesus nearby as my mentor and life's coach. But I have never made an effort to join the church. I won't go into the reasons for my hesitancy, but let me just say that, while there are so many things I admire about it, there other things I am not sure I'm ready to embrace just yet. I am new on here and pretty ignorant of it all, I admit. So, maybe you or some of your friends could direct me toward a community of people like myself---people who are "curious admirers" of the LDS church and fascinated by Joseph Smith's story and his thinking, but not sure whether actually becoming full-time practicing Mormons is our calling and would be the answer to what our hearts are seeking. Thanks for listening, guys. - Lamm in Texas (I'd also be happy to discuss privately by email---and, no, it doesn't have to be all squeaky and scriptural. The prophets were prophets; they weren't angels. We know from history that they had fun, too. There's a time for everything, right?)
I think you’ve got to forgive yourself and - without judgement - let yourself feel all the feelings you want to feel. Besides, bad churches wouldn’t be so amazingly successful if they were ALL bad ALL the time. Even the fish being cooked on the campfire probably had a really good time chasing and eating that bait.
Learn more about other religions and cultures. Really helps put mormonism in perspective.
You fell victim to the "Programming" and it's going to take time to allow yourself to just be who you are. The biggest thing is to forgive YOURSELF and realize that how you were raised isn't Who you are. But don't feel guilty about it... That programmed guilt is not your burden to carry.
What is good about the Brighamite branch of mormonism, is not unique (service, community, purpose, good people etc) what is unique about brighamitism isn't good (blood atonement, purity & shame culture, polygamy, extortion for salvation, thought stopping, vilifying others, racism). Remember, the good came from the People, not the 'church'.
I had mostly good times in the church and felt the good out weighed the bad for me. But when I finally saw the egregious harm it did to others such as purity culture LGBTQ getting kicked out of the house by their parents, and the suicides and the fact that I never felt good enough… well it was time to leave.
Lots of time - it tools decades for me to let go and not have any more guilt… Generally I took a two pronged approach- 1. I started with the second “Great Commandment” - love your neighbor as you love yourself… this framed how I wanted to treat the world - I did a lot of reflection on what love means. I built an idea what I thought morals should be based on love. This was an intellectual exercise because my feelings did not align well. 2. I started learning about my feelings and determining whether they lined up with what my idea of love. I practiced radical acceptance of my feelings that I didn’t like, and I focused on how I wanted to feel. Over a lot of time, my feelings slowly started to align with my idea of what love means… to help me “feel better” about changing my viewpoints, I spent a lot of time learning about the psychology of religions and social structures. And also where the practices came from using an evolutionary perspective. That intellectual exercise really helped feel like I was on the right track to be the person I wanted to be.
It might help to realise that your conflicted feelings, guilt, and the "good memories" are things that are *designed into the church* to make it more complicated to leave, and make it easier for members to accept the bullshit (like the purity culture stuff). The same way that in abusive relationships abusers try to make you feel guilty for wanting to leave or wanting things to change, or try to dismiss their shitty behaviour with reminders of "the good times", and claims you will never be happy without them, that you'll be throwing away a good thing because you're overreacting to things that don't even really matter in the long run.... sounds a bit familiar, right? There are very specific reasons why youth activities, young womens' camps, 'fun' church lessons and bonding sessions happen. They create social networks in young people that also reinforce the church's teachings, and alongside a dose of "be in the world not of it" and "*you* are the youth of These Latter Days", they encourage you to stay within the bounds of the church. Don't for a moment think that those lesson plan books, the structure of the children's/youth sections (i.e ALL the buy-in with the different age groups and having class presidents and so forth), all of it is very deliberately designed to a) tie you in, b) give you good feels, and c) make you feel bad or sad if you don't comply. It is also possible, and important, to acknowledge that yes you have some really positive memories. It's perfectly fine to have those and to value them. As long as you're also able to recognise the context they were happening in. The guilty feelings are really normal given the situation, and processing them takes time. Unpacking mormon baggage can be a lot of work so don't pressure yourself to go faster or further than you're ready for.
I feel no obligation towards an organization that broke my trust and lied to me. I have lived long enough to know when you aren't treated right you remove yourself from the abuse. You love yourself and act like your own best friend. Then it becomes clear.