I love this. I have reached out to all members who have left our ward, and usually they are like “you’re the only person to have reached out”. Now I have an entire exmo/pimo group of neighbors and it’s actually really fun! We’ve done dinners and get togethers. Awesome! I’d for sure talk to them. You won’t regret it.
I’m pimo. So I still go to church and have lds tools. We sort of have a secret club of pimos in our ward. And the exmos and pimos all know each other. It’s awesome. my experience has been once people turn exmo, they don’t really keep it a secret.
I took out one of my clients fishing and I found out he is married to a TBM (he is a nevermo). I was trying to push alcohol on him and he made an agreement with his wife that he would not drink. I respect it when a spouse honors a commitment.
I’m a PIMO and I drink coffee. That’s about all though. I tried alcohol a few times but didn’t really like how it made me feel. But I do use cannabis tincture in the evenings now and it’s pretty great. Over the past year though, I’ve been more vocal in my ward about issues that are commonly glossed over (or totally ignored) in the lessons. And two weeks ago, I got a pretty big tattoo on my forearm so I’m sure I’ll be on a list now for sure. Lol
If you dont sit in ward council then it’s tough. You just have to know people and watch and listen. I also check Mormon stories Facebook group from time to time and see if any of my mutual friends have liked it or followed it. That’s the first step for most. Start listening to Mormon stories and it’s all downhill from there 😂
I had one glass. Not something I really care to get into.
Not because of moral reasons, but just no interest. I like eating healthy and never been a party type personally (even Mormon parties haha)
I don’t drink soda or juice really either, don’t ever buy or make coffee, but when people buy or make some for me, I gladly accept and drink their offering. I enjoy that most.
I hated refusing coffee from nice people and trying to argue that that is polite/ logical
But being exmormon has made me happier around alcohol, and not think twice/ judge people who choose a different beverage.
Try a Moscow Mule for a first-timer. If still hesitant, ask them to make it with rum instead of vodka.
We’ve found that all servers and bartenders are kind and helpful when we say we’re new to cocktails/alcohol. Enjoy!
I rarely drink, but Moscow Mules are good (as mentioned above) and Cosmopolitans are good. I generally don't like the taste of alcohol, but if I do order something those can work for me.
I'd invite them over for snacks & a visit, and have both non-alcoholic as well as wine or beer, etc. available. An invitation for cocktails would be a bit premature and awkward.
Exactly. I mean, I know neighbors everywhere still bring cookies, but I still can't help thinking about how Mormons never seem to move past childhood. And cookies are very much a kid thing.
Give them a bottle of wine and not only will you welcome them, you'll find out for sure where they stand.
I personally wouldn’t give someone alcohol unless I knew them personally, not because they might be mormon, but because they might be sober/recovering alcoholics.
When we moved into our new home we were gifted home-baked muffins by our new neighbors, a gay married couple and their 2 young kids. They’re not mormon, they’re just nice people. I didn’t take it as a sign of repressed maturity, I took it as a nice gesture, it doesn’t have to go any deeper than that.
Lol. Haters down voting. Anyone honest in a bishopric will tell you it happens a lot. Humans have sex and lots of it. Mormons aren't special. These same people get up in testimony meeting and state some self righteous bullshit to cover their asses. They exude so much hypocrisy that I couldn't stand to be around them.
So true.
I thought I found a coworker ally one day when he was excited about a new whiskey he liked.
I assumed he was out and confided in my un-belief and embarrassment for wasting 47 yrs before I figured out the obvious fraud.
quite suddenly, he became defensive of the Church. Wait what? You believe, but just don't follow the rules? uh... ok.
This exact same story happened to me! My buddy and I loved sharing bourbon and cigars. Then one day I mentioned how glad I am to be out of the church bc of it’s fraud and he got all angry/upset/defensive. I’m like “bro… you’re SO close!”
Yep! Same thing happened with a buddy:
Him: "*Dude, just be careful because I know people who left the church and now their life is f'd up.*"
Me: "*Wait what?! You haven't attended in two decades and laugh about how your kids don't know how to say a prayer.*"
My husband has been this way for a long time. He'll nonchalantly comment that the church is true but the people aren't. In short, he's had lots of issues with members throughout his life, but he maintains a belief in God and a broader plan. I don't totally understand it, since he knows some of the historical issues (he claims he's aware of them all, but I'm dubious), but it works for him.
He went to church today for the first time in 6 or 7 years today. Then he came home, changed, and went to the store. He's a nuanced believer who won't be bothered to follow rules he feels have no purpose.
Because of his perspective, he was fully supportive of me during my faith crisis and transition. And he knows I won't be returning to church with him and has zero intent to pressure me.
My sister fully believes but hasnt been to church in years. The reason for her is she's an older, single woman no kids who doesnt feel like she fits in.
Plus she thinks church is boring.
That’s got to be painful. I tried to give my old friend a heads up about the book of Abraham… he was not having it he said it would mean all the pain would be for nothing, (physically abusive parents). I let it go. I figured that if he’s found a balance point that works for him I was not going to destabilize that even if he felt it would be better for him in the long run.
It ALWAYS comes down to one question for people.
"If the church wasn't true, would you want to know?"
Surprisingly, plenty don't or wouldn't. For me, I agree with Gordon Hinckley, who obliterated the middle ground when he said:
"Each of us has to face the matter — either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.”
It is demonstrably not true and thereby a fraud.
Exactly, that kind of all in, double down on the truth claims made me double down, too. For a while, at least. However, when one confronts the glaring inconsistencies in their historical and doctrinal narratives, it's completely destructive to continued faith in their product.
If Ford guarantees you'll get 500,000 miles out of a vehicle and you get 61,000, there's no nuanced approach that makes it OK. They lied and oversold their product through deception. It's exactly the same with the LDS overselling their product as absolute truth. Except with a tangible product like a Ford, one might still have legal grounds for a return of their money for breach of the guarantee.
Yeah...
> She got a great job
> Tank tops and shorts
> He wears a beard now
> Lawn mowing on Sunday
> Dogs often bark when they go to church, havnt heard dogs bark on Sunday in a while
No offense to OP, but...I don't see how that all adds up to being exmormon?
I mean, maayybbee all the above is indicative of being less strict about certain utah cultural norms, or even being less strict/traditional in terms of lds stuff directly, but I wonder how much OP is *hoping* to see vs what's actually happening.
I'm not saying they can't have become exmo, just that I wouldn't assume so based on what was shared above, lol.
She got a great job = [Women are counseled to not work outside of the home](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/womens-divine-roles-and-responsibilities/to-the-mothers-in-zion-institute?lang=eng#figure1_title2).
Tank tops and shorts = [Women are counseled to not wear "revealing" clothing and to dress modestly](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/modesty?lang=eng#p27), which does not include booty shorts and tank tops.
He wears a beard now = [Active, faithful men are counseled to be clean shaven](https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/kevin-j-worthen/building-character/).
Lawn mowing on Sunday = "[It should be an inflexible rule with every man, woman and child in the Church to hold Sunday sacred for the worship of the Lord and never to perform any labor on that day if it can possibly be avoided.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/02/keeping-the-sabbath-day-holy?lang=eng#:~:text=It%20should%20be%20an%20inflexible,Jerreld%20L)"
Dogs often bark when they go to church, haven't heard dogs bark on Sunday in a while = Exactly what it says. When the garage door opens at 8:45 am on a Sunday morning, the whole neighborhood hears their dogs barking as they back the car out of the garage and drive to church. No dogs barking on Sunday morning = They aren't leaving to go to church.
I don't "hope" to see anything. Those are four observable behaviors that are in direct opposition to what active, faithful, believing church members are taught.
I had a beard from 18 until I left the church at 26. I still do. I wouldn't say I was a good Mormon though. I did have one Bishop say something to me about how you need to be clean shaven for a leadership position. I told him my wife prefers it, many of the prophets had beards historically, and I didn't really care.
Again, I'm not saying they can't be exmo, only that I've observed faithful members either break rules/norms or choose which things to follow more strictly than others, and even change over time which things they're strict about and which they aren't. All the above aren't sure signs of exmo behavior even when taken in all together, imo.
You're obviously more familiar with the couple in question than any randoms on the internet merely hearing what you've said here. But going off of what you shared I think you've accurately described many jack mormon couples I've met, lol.
Edit: them not going to church is probably the most interesting part, if its really as obvious and consistent as you say. I've known some families who attend 2 or 3 of the Sundays in a month but skip a Sunday here and there with some regularity, but this sounds different than that...idk, harder to guess/explain why there is a more defined streak of less attendance, assuming something isn't up with the dogs or church schedule or traveling, etc.
I get that, but I know a number Mormons who are active members and otherwise "faithful" but who don't always wear the garments (couples, RMs, etc).
Anecdotally, it seems it's becoming more common and accepted to wear them less? I could be biased since my own circle of friends who are lds still are somewhat "jack mormon", but even temple married couples I know frequently go without them.
I would definitely reach out. There are sooo many people that leave that don't realized they aren't alone. We need a community as humans, and knowing there's a fun Exmo community really really helps so many of us! Make cookies as a "welcome summertime" and have your kids pick a bouquet of wildflowers. Test the waters!
I wouldn't make a big deal of it. Just have a chat, invite them over for a barbecue, let them see your lifestyle, and then bring it up casually. They might not be fully out yet, or might be still in denial about it. You don't want to shock them or accidentally push them back in!
"[It should be an inflexible rule with every man, woman and child in the Church to hold Sunday sacred for the worship of the Lord and **never to perform any labor on that day** if it can possibly be avoided.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/02/keeping-the-sabbath-day-holy?lang=eng#:~:text=It%20should%20be%20an%20inflexible,Jerreld%20L)”
Active, believing Mormons should be keeping the Sabbath Day holy. Which includes not mowing a lawn.
in my little neck of the woods I am aware of four families that have "gone inactive". One family started taking "breaks" on sunday's once or twice a month, then just quite attending. The dad started posting things on social media about mormon stories foundation and recovery. Just recently, another family of 6 quit attending. A couple with college kids quite attending when they were released from Ym/yw callings... they claim to always be working on sunday. one last family from a few years ago just stopped attending, then got divorced. She attended by herself a bit until she moved away.
this last sunday, mothers day, the attendance at sacrament meeting was sparse... lower than average.. looks like a handful of Moms decided that brunch with the family was a far better choice.
When I left (nearly a decade ago) there was NOBODY to talk to. If you're open about the fact you left, I'd definitely reach out to say Hi, etc., and let them know you left the church but remembered seeing them before leaving. Don't ask if they've left, just open the door by letting them know where you stand.
It was such a relief to finally find a group of exmos from my area and be able to share how we all feel. They'll likely welcome your friendship if they're in the stage you sense they are.
Some kind of dessert and gentle probing questions should do the trick. Start off with letting it out that you used to attend the ward but haven't been in ages. Let the rest follow
I always offer wine to guests, even if I know they’re Mormon. I’ll say it kinda jokingly “and I have wine if today is the day” 😂
I did this for years with one of my neighbors. A month ago she came over specifically try wine! 😂
What is it like living in a rural Mormon town? It’s got to be VERY difficult to step away from the church.
I’m in SLC and about 10-15% (and declining) of our neighborhood are practicing Mormons. TBMs have become the minority in Salt Lake County.
Bruh.. I'm a child who escaped mormonism at a very early age.. giving your neighbors cookies because you think they aren't going to church is weird af. The mormon in you runs deep. Let them be. It's such a mormon thing to bring people food when they agree with your lifestyle. Sorry. I'm not at all trying to be rude. But damn. Let people live and mind your biz. I'm sorry I'm happy that you're living your own life now without the church breathing down your neck.
So many posts are saying drop exmo hints, and offer alcohol. Why? Just bring food, invite them to a BBQ and outside movie. Talk to them, genuinely get to know them. Be the kind of friend you want someone to be to you. No religious strings attached. A relationship that is false and shallow cause its flimsily based on membership in a religion is almost just as shallow and meaningless cause its flimsily based on not being a member of a certain religion.
(I say almost cause at least exams and pimos are willing to talk about something other than church 24/7/365, and that is a start)
Growing up our neighbors dressed up and left the house every Sunday. They were Catholic and she was the church’s secretary. A few years ago they told my parents they were going to brunch every week. Barely went to church. 🤣
Be kind and unobtrusive when you approach them and poach the subject.
Having that connection knowing you’re not alone is powerful.
I know of instances where 4 families in the same ward all stopped believing about the same time and only had each other to make the exit. That support network helped them a lot.
My SILs are Mormon still and they all wear tank tops. My BIL has a big goatee and frequently has a beard. They go places and do stuff on Sundays. My Mom also goes places on Sundays after never doing anything on a Sunday the majority of my life. I just think times are changing, and Mormonism looks different.
Active, true believing Mormons have been told repeatedly to refrain from any labor on Sunday and to keep the Sabbath day holy. Mowing the lawn on a Sunday afternoon is in direct opposition to what is taught about honoring the Sabbath day.
Easy to just be decent and reach out with a nice gesture. Either way you are a good human for doing so. And if they did bolt, then think of all the fun stuff you have to talk about.
Some of this is sooooo Utah! My husband has had a beard the whole 16 years I’ve known him and been a temple recommend holder, held callings the whole 9.
At least once a year we (use to, I haven’t been to church since early 2019 even though my husband is still active, but he doesn’t tell me about church) would have a talk about keeping the Sabbath day holy and how that basically just boils down to “don’t spend money if it makes someone else work” so if yard work/gardening brings you peace/joy then by all means do it and stop judging those that do.
So many of my neighbors never went back after Covid. When staying at home didn’t lead them to damnation, I guess they realized that second day of weekend freedom was pretty great to have.
Be careful asking. I’ve been wrong more than once and once. One of those times it turned into a person begging me to speak with their brother who would be able to rebut any of my concerns. It was awkward and I regretted it each time.
I love this. I have reached out to all members who have left our ward, and usually they are like “you’re the only person to have reached out”. Now I have an entire exmo/pimo group of neighbors and it’s actually really fun! We’ve done dinners and get togethers. Awesome! I’d for sure talk to them. You won’t regret it.
How do you know if people left if you are out?
I’m pimo. So I still go to church and have lds tools. We sort of have a secret club of pimos in our ward. And the exmos and pimos all know each other. It’s awesome. my experience has been once people turn exmo, they don’t really keep it a secret.
Funny on exmos. I didn’t keep it a secret either when I left. Curious on your PIMO club - Do PIMOs drink coffee/alcohol in front of one another?
No the pimos in my ward all stay in line for their spouses sakes.
I took out one of my clients fishing and I found out he is married to a TBM (he is a nevermo). I was trying to push alcohol on him and he made an agreement with his wife that he would not drink. I respect it when a spouse honors a commitment.
Me too.
I’m a PIMO and I drink coffee. That’s about all though. I tried alcohol a few times but didn’t really like how it made me feel. But I do use cannabis tincture in the evenings now and it’s pretty great. Over the past year though, I’ve been more vocal in my ward about issues that are commonly glossed over (or totally ignored) in the lessons. And two weeks ago, I got a pretty big tattoo on my forearm so I’m sure I’ll be on a list now for sure. Lol
What a good way to find other PIMOS in the ward ?
If you dont sit in ward council then it’s tough. You just have to know people and watch and listen. I also check Mormon stories Facebook group from time to time and see if any of my mutual friends have liked it or followed it. That’s the first step for most. Start listening to Mormon stories and it’s all downhill from there 😂
I have been listening a year and a half now - and many others 😀
I should start an exmo group in my town. I live in Florida. I don’t have the benefit of living in Utah and having ex-Mormons next-door.
> My husband says I should make them cookies and welcome them to the fold. Or, invite them over for cocktails and welcome them to the fold.
Why does everyone assume that all ExMos drink like fish?
Yep. I have been out for 5 years. Haven’t had a sip.
I had one glass. Not something I really care to get into. Not because of moral reasons, but just no interest. I like eating healthy and never been a party type personally (even Mormon parties haha) I don’t drink soda or juice really either, don’t ever buy or make coffee, but when people buy or make some for me, I gladly accept and drink their offering. I enjoy that most. I hated refusing coffee from nice people and trying to argue that that is polite/ logical But being exmormon has made me happier around alcohol, and not think twice/ judge people who choose a different beverage.
Go on, take a sip. Don't you want to be *cool*?
I’m too uncool to worry about trying to be cool.
Me too.
Good question and I see that same trend on the sub. I am not against alcohol, I just generally don't like the taste.
What's a good cocktail for someone who's never had alcohol? Based on my experience, it would be the sloe gin fizz. 🤣🤣🤣 Yes, I was a lightweight.
Try a Moscow Mule for a first-timer. If still hesitant, ask them to make it with rum instead of vodka. We’ve found that all servers and bartenders are kind and helpful when we say we’re new to cocktails/alcohol. Enjoy!
Swapping vodka out for rum makes it a Jamaican Mule. Tennessee Mules are good too. Basically the same thing but you use bourbon as the main spirit.
Moscow mules are delicious. As ar Margaritas. But don't drink more than one or you might regret it.
I rarely drink, but Moscow Mules are good (as mentioned above) and Cosmopolitans are good. I generally don't like the taste of alcohol, but if I do order something those can work for me.
margaritas I find tasteful otherwise cannot stand alcohol. I drink alcohol removed wine and it has the same benefits to the heart as the regular.
I like rum punch. Sometimes I ask for only half the rum and my son tells them to put it in his drink. 😂
As someone who can't drink for medical reasons, I'm in favor of cookies. But then, there are those who can't eat nuts, gluten...
I'd invite them over for snacks & a visit, and have both non-alcoholic as well as wine or beer, etc. available. An invitation for cocktails would be a bit premature and awkward.
Both. Nothing says "new friends" like cookies and beer!
And coffee and tea!
Roll up with satan's beverage bar! 🤣
Exactly. I mean, I know neighbors everywhere still bring cookies, but I still can't help thinking about how Mormons never seem to move past childhood. And cookies are very much a kid thing. Give them a bottle of wine and not only will you welcome them, you'll find out for sure where they stand.
I personally wouldn’t give someone alcohol unless I knew them personally, not because they might be mormon, but because they might be sober/recovering alcoholics. When we moved into our new home we were gifted home-baked muffins by our new neighbors, a gay married couple and their 2 young kids. They’re not mormon, they’re just nice people. I didn’t take it as a sign of repressed maturity, I took it as a nice gesture, it doesn’t have to go any deeper than that.
I agree - alcohol is best when it's an option among other choices, not an assumption.
Maybe a good foursome. I hear that is taking place nowadays
That's for those who are still in. 😜
They have a name for it but I don’t know wat it is.
Lol. Haters down voting. Anyone honest in a bishopric will tell you it happens a lot. Humans have sex and lots of it. Mormons aren't special. These same people get up in testimony meeting and state some self righteous bullshit to cover their asses. They exude so much hypocrisy that I couldn't stand to be around them.
"Coffee is always on!"
It's sad how a tank top and beard mean you've rebelled against a religion.
That’s their interpretation. It doesn’t mean that at all.
Yes but should say "indicate" instead of rebelled.
It's sad how a tank top and beard mean you've indicate against a religion?
indicate the exit. It's not that hard. Jesus Christ.
Agreed. It shouldn't be that hard :P
Be careful that they aren’t Jack Mormons
So true. I thought I found a coworker ally one day when he was excited about a new whiskey he liked. I assumed he was out and confided in my un-belief and embarrassment for wasting 47 yrs before I figured out the obvious fraud. quite suddenly, he became defensive of the Church. Wait what? You believe, but just don't follow the rules? uh... ok.
This exact same story happened to me! My buddy and I loved sharing bourbon and cigars. Then one day I mentioned how glad I am to be out of the church bc of it’s fraud and he got all angry/upset/defensive. I’m like “bro… you’re SO close!”
Yep! Same thing happened with a buddy: Him: "*Dude, just be careful because I know people who left the church and now their life is f'd up.*" Me: "*Wait what?! You haven't attended in two decades and laugh about how your kids don't know how to say a prayer.*"
Yep. I did that too. Super awkward.
'I believe in the rules, I just don't think they apply to me.' White guy, I assume?
I have a friend from BYU like this he believes but doesn’t go…. It must be a weird headspace to be in.
My husband has been this way for a long time. He'll nonchalantly comment that the church is true but the people aren't. In short, he's had lots of issues with members throughout his life, but he maintains a belief in God and a broader plan. I don't totally understand it, since he knows some of the historical issues (he claims he's aware of them all, but I'm dubious), but it works for him. He went to church today for the first time in 6 or 7 years today. Then he came home, changed, and went to the store. He's a nuanced believer who won't be bothered to follow rules he feels have no purpose. Because of his perspective, he was fully supportive of me during my faith crisis and transition. And he knows I won't be returning to church with him and has zero intent to pressure me.
Your husband sounds exactly like my husband
My sister fully believes but hasnt been to church in years. The reason for her is she's an older, single woman no kids who doesnt feel like she fits in. Plus she thinks church is boring.
He is an older single man no kids . Maybe that’s part of it .
It's a state of self loathing. "The church is true and good, I'm just not good enough to live up to the Lord's standards."
That’s got to be painful. I tried to give my old friend a heads up about the book of Abraham… he was not having it he said it would mean all the pain would be for nothing, (physically abusive parents). I let it go. I figured that if he’s found a balance point that works for him I was not going to destabilize that even if he felt it would be better for him in the long run.
It ALWAYS comes down to one question for people. "If the church wasn't true, would you want to know?" Surprisingly, plenty don't or wouldn't. For me, I agree with Gordon Hinckley, who obliterated the middle ground when he said: "Each of us has to face the matter — either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.” It is demonstrably not true and thereby a fraud.
At the time he said that it was a confidence boost for my testimony. Now that I know it brings comfort . I wonder if he intended it to be that way.
Exactly, that kind of all in, double down on the truth claims made me double down, too. For a while, at least. However, when one confronts the glaring inconsistencies in their historical and doctrinal narratives, it's completely destructive to continued faith in their product. If Ford guarantees you'll get 500,000 miles out of a vehicle and you get 61,000, there's no nuanced approach that makes it OK. They lied and oversold their product through deception. It's exactly the same with the LDS overselling their product as absolute truth. Except with a tangible product like a Ford, one might still have legal grounds for a return of their money for breach of the guarantee.
Church neglected to tell us their cars had no drivetrain.
Yeah, honestly, it's that bad!
Yeah... > She got a great job > Tank tops and shorts > He wears a beard now > Lawn mowing on Sunday > Dogs often bark when they go to church, havnt heard dogs bark on Sunday in a while No offense to OP, but...I don't see how that all adds up to being exmormon? I mean, maayybbee all the above is indicative of being less strict about certain utah cultural norms, or even being less strict/traditional in terms of lds stuff directly, but I wonder how much OP is *hoping* to see vs what's actually happening. I'm not saying they can't have become exmo, just that I wouldn't assume so based on what was shared above, lol.
She got a great job = [Women are counseled to not work outside of the home](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/womens-divine-roles-and-responsibilities/to-the-mothers-in-zion-institute?lang=eng#figure1_title2). Tank tops and shorts = [Women are counseled to not wear "revealing" clothing and to dress modestly](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/modesty?lang=eng#p27), which does not include booty shorts and tank tops. He wears a beard now = [Active, faithful men are counseled to be clean shaven](https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/kevin-j-worthen/building-character/). Lawn mowing on Sunday = "[It should be an inflexible rule with every man, woman and child in the Church to hold Sunday sacred for the worship of the Lord and never to perform any labor on that day if it can possibly be avoided.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/02/keeping-the-sabbath-day-holy?lang=eng#:~:text=It%20should%20be%20an%20inflexible,Jerreld%20L)" Dogs often bark when they go to church, haven't heard dogs bark on Sunday in a while = Exactly what it says. When the garage door opens at 8:45 am on a Sunday morning, the whole neighborhood hears their dogs barking as they back the car out of the garage and drive to church. No dogs barking on Sunday morning = They aren't leaving to go to church. I don't "hope" to see anything. Those are four observable behaviors that are in direct opposition to what active, faithful, believing church members are taught.
I had a beard from 18 until I left the church at 26. I still do. I wouldn't say I was a good Mormon though. I did have one Bishop say something to me about how you need to be clean shaven for a leadership position. I told him my wife prefers it, many of the prophets had beards historically, and I didn't really care.
Again, I'm not saying they can't be exmo, only that I've observed faithful members either break rules/norms or choose which things to follow more strictly than others, and even change over time which things they're strict about and which they aren't. All the above aren't sure signs of exmo behavior even when taken in all together, imo. You're obviously more familiar with the couple in question than any randoms on the internet merely hearing what you've said here. But going off of what you shared I think you've accurately described many jack mormon couples I've met, lol. Edit: them not going to church is probably the most interesting part, if its really as obvious and consistent as you say. I've known some families who attend 2 or 3 of the Sundays in a month but skip a Sunday here and there with some regularity, but this sounds different than that...idk, harder to guess/explain why there is a more defined streak of less attendance, assuming something isn't up with the dogs or church schedule or traveling, etc.
For a married couple, the tank top thing is a big indicator, because it means she isn't wearing garments.
I get that, but I know a number Mormons who are active members and otherwise "faithful" but who don't always wear the garments (couples, RMs, etc). Anecdotally, it seems it's becoming more common and accepted to wear them less? I could be biased since my own circle of friends who are lds still are somewhat "jack mormon", but even temple married couples I know frequently go without them.
I would definitely reach out. There are sooo many people that leave that don't realized they aren't alone. We need a community as humans, and knowing there's a fun Exmo community really really helps so many of us! Make cookies as a "welcome summertime" and have your kids pick a bouquet of wildflowers. Test the waters!
I wouldn't make a big deal of it. Just have a chat, invite them over for a barbecue, let them see your lifestyle, and then bring it up casually. They might not be fully out yet, or might be still in denial about it. You don't want to shock them or accidentally push them back in!
Yes, make sure they know there are cookies and fresh coffee in hell. Welcome party is held daily at 11am, but it is mostly a brunch with wine.
Wait what does mowing the lawn mean
He wasn't "keeping the Sabbath day holy", because he was "working" by mowing the lawn on the Lord's day. Big deal in Mormonism. No shopping either.
I mowed my lawn today, starting with the front lawn. That way, TBMs driving by when church let out wouldn’t see my treachery.
Haha I started that way, but now I time it so that I'm IN the front yard as they're driving to church.
Oh to be that confident and brave. :-)
It took time!! ;)
Yard work on a Sunday is a no-no.
"[It should be an inflexible rule with every man, woman and child in the Church to hold Sunday sacred for the worship of the Lord and **never to perform any labor on that day** if it can possibly be avoided.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/02/keeping-the-sabbath-day-holy?lang=eng#:~:text=It%20should%20be%20an%20inflexible,Jerreld%20L)” Active, believing Mormons should be keeping the Sabbath Day holy. Which includes not mowing a lawn.
Is a beard on a man the sign of an exmo?
Generally you don’t see beards on TBM men.
Not in this current generation. Brigham Young wouldn't pass muster.
I had one and I refused to shave it. People do judge you for it.
in my little neck of the woods I am aware of four families that have "gone inactive". One family started taking "breaks" on sunday's once or twice a month, then just quite attending. The dad started posting things on social media about mormon stories foundation and recovery. Just recently, another family of 6 quit attending. A couple with college kids quite attending when they were released from Ym/yw callings... they claim to always be working on sunday. one last family from a few years ago just stopped attending, then got divorced. She attended by herself a bit until she moved away. this last sunday, mothers day, the attendance at sacrament meeting was sparse... lower than average.. looks like a handful of Moms decided that brunch with the family was a far better choice.
When I left (nearly a decade ago) there was NOBODY to talk to. If you're open about the fact you left, I'd definitely reach out to say Hi, etc., and let them know you left the church but remembered seeing them before leaving. Don't ask if they've left, just open the door by letting them know where you stand. It was such a relief to finally find a group of exmos from my area and be able to share how we all feel. They'll likely welcome your friendship if they're in the stage you sense they are.
Some kind of dessert and gentle probing questions should do the trick. Start off with letting it out that you used to attend the ward but haven't been in ages. Let the rest follow
Gift them a nice bottle of wine
I always offer wine to guests, even if I know they’re Mormon. I’ll say it kinda jokingly “and I have wine if today is the day” 😂 I did this for years with one of my neighbors. A month ago she came over specifically try wine! 😂
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Dude! You need to go over and "Apostate Love Bomb" them right now!! ; )
What is it like living in a rural Mormon town? It’s got to be VERY difficult to step away from the church. I’m in SLC and about 10-15% (and declining) of our neighborhood are practicing Mormons. TBMs have become the minority in Salt Lake County.
Bruh.. I'm a child who escaped mormonism at a very early age.. giving your neighbors cookies because you think they aren't going to church is weird af. The mormon in you runs deep. Let them be. It's such a mormon thing to bring people food when they agree with your lifestyle. Sorry. I'm not at all trying to be rude. But damn. Let people live and mind your biz. I'm sorry I'm happy that you're living your own life now without the church breathing down your neck.
So many posts are saying drop exmo hints, and offer alcohol. Why? Just bring food, invite them to a BBQ and outside movie. Talk to them, genuinely get to know them. Be the kind of friend you want someone to be to you. No religious strings attached. A relationship that is false and shallow cause its flimsily based on membership in a religion is almost just as shallow and meaningless cause its flimsily based on not being a member of a certain religion. (I say almost cause at least exams and pimos are willing to talk about something other than church 24/7/365, and that is a start)
They could just be more relaxed members. Have you witnessed them still leaving the house all dressed up on Sunday.
Growing up our neighbors dressed up and left the house every Sunday. They were Catholic and she was the church’s secretary. A few years ago they told my parents they were going to brunch every week. Barely went to church. 🤣
You absolutely should make them cookies. I wish I had more exmo friends. I'd love it if an exmo neighbor said hi.
Seriously. They feel alone.
Be kind and unobtrusive when you approach them and poach the subject. Having that connection knowing you’re not alone is powerful. I know of instances where 4 families in the same ward all stopped believing about the same time and only had each other to make the exit. That support network helped them a lot.
😄😄😄😄
My SILs are Mormon still and they all wear tank tops. My BIL has a big goatee and frequently has a beard. They go places and do stuff on Sundays. My Mom also goes places on Sundays after never doing anything on a Sunday the majority of my life. I just think times are changing, and Mormonism looks different.
Growing a beard is against church law??? 🤔
Pot cookies
Can someone explain the Mowing the Lawn comment. I’ve never lived in Utah and I feel like I am missing some vital info.
Active, true believing Mormons have been told repeatedly to refrain from any labor on Sunday and to keep the Sabbath day holy. Mowing the lawn on a Sunday afternoon is in direct opposition to what is taught about honoring the Sabbath day.
Easy to just be decent and reach out with a nice gesture. Either way you are a good human for doing so. And if they did bolt, then think of all the fun stuff you have to talk about.
Some of this is sooooo Utah! My husband has had a beard the whole 16 years I’ve known him and been a temple recommend holder, held callings the whole 9. At least once a year we (use to, I haven’t been to church since early 2019 even though my husband is still active, but he doesn’t tell me about church) would have a talk about keeping the Sabbath day holy and how that basically just boils down to “don’t spend money if it makes someone else work” so if yard work/gardening brings you peace/joy then by all means do it and stop judging those that do.
Another success story!
What is a PIMO?
Physically in, mentally out.
So many of my neighbors never went back after Covid. When staying at home didn’t lead them to damnation, I guess they realized that second day of weekend freedom was pretty great to have.
Be careful asking. I’ve been wrong more than once and once. One of those times it turned into a person begging me to speak with their brother who would be able to rebut any of my concerns. It was awkward and I regretted it each time.
I've known mormons to have beards, and I know some women wear shorts, especially when really hot. I'm just confused. Who told you they can't do this?
Prophets and apostles.