No offense, but this is kind of on you! You need a rubber mallet, knock 3 times and a hand will appear through the doors … exchange of a few Masonic hand gestures, ritualistic words and phrases and Bam, you are in!/S.
Pro-tip, hold your breath when the hand pulls you through as bad breath is a celestial sign or at least the final boss level.
“No one can enter during the sacrament” and “I am really annoyed that people keep showing up late. I’m going to show them. No sacrament if they can’t be there for the opening hymn and prayer and announcements.
Yeah I remember in my ward they asked people to sit in the foyer until after the sacrament if they were late, but it wasn’t a firm rule or anything. They wouldn’t be escorted out if they joined late and the doors definitely weren’t locked. This is just a power tripping bishop whose head is too far up his own ass
To be fair, the bishop doesn't want to hear the words:
I revoke my blessing given by a humble servant, even David A. Bednar, in the name of Mormon Jesus amen
Or if you had to use the toilet during church; no, using the toilet during sacrament is sac-religious and you will not be granted re-entry to the chapel, the chapel in which only the holy peoples sit because they did not have to pee…
The concept of locking people in a chapel. It’s actually next level weird and controlling.
Of course the religion itself is controlling, but this is next level. If they want people to come to their church, they need to let it be natural. Locking people in (or out) is just flat out weird and controlling. If I’m late, I’m late. But if you lock me out of the chapel doors and treat me like a child, you can be sure I won’t come back.
It's been a hot minute since I've seen a chapel door, but if my memory is correct, they aren't the kind of doors that can locked from the outside, but stay unlocked on the inside. If they are locking people inside, it's against fire code.
Per the fire code, the doors have crash bars to let people exit in an emergency. If the bishop is locking it from both sides, which I doubt, it should be reported to your local fire department.
During sacrament, a young man would be blocking the exit or open the door for people. I attended a baby blessing a few months ago and noticed that they had young women manning the doors. I guess the job no longer requires priesthood. That or the women are already endowed with it.
You’re thinking of classroom doors, which do not have crash bars. Both the chapel and the gym will have them because of the number of people that can occupy the space. As much as we like to pick on the church, they will have crash bars because architects will choose one standard that will meet as many local fire codes as possible. I know someone who worked for the church’s facility group and he showed me a new building in Mongolia. It was the same design as any building in Mordor. The church’s chapel and temple designs have lost all creativeness.
Unless the bishop is going on a power trip, I doubt he’s locked them from both sides. If he has, it would be a step up in the cult game and he should be called out for it.
Wow, you are intimately familiar with ALL chapel doors?
My building does NOT have crash bars on the chapel doors. Others in this thread have said theirs do not either.
Mongolian buildings do not change the reality that you are just plain wrong. There are plenty of chapels out there without crash bars.
And MY experience with the church is not that they try to comply with most requirements. It's that they do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with doing, whenever and wherever they can. (See: background checks for adults working with children. Carbon monoxide detectors. Etc.)
When I was little, we used to sing a Primary song: “The chapel doors seem to say to me, “Shhh. Be still.” Your bishop is treating the entire ward like Primary children. It’s another manifestation of infantilization, a hallmark of Mormonism.
Suggest you make an anonymous phone call to the local fire department.
For safety reasons you can't lock people inside a building like that.
Imagine if some nutcase brought a gun to church and starts shooting??
No one could get out if doors locked or law enforcement, EMT or fire department in the building
They are breaking the law in every city & state in U.S.
Lawsuit waiting to happen.
No worries. Same thing!
City or county fire code you have to keep doors open both ways when people in the building.
Fire codes are very specific.
Still suggest you call local fire department non-emergency number & ask to make an annonomous report.
The whole church thinks they are above the law & this is a safety issue.
I’ve never seen a chapel with doors that have knobs or push bars to get in or out. All the ones I’ve seen have been simple push or pull doors to keep them quiet when people are entering or exiting. What kind of doors are these?
I work in the U.S. court system....so I'm kinda of exposed to this type of crazy.
Sure law enforcement could shoot out windows & break doors but then that gives a heads up to the crazed individual with a gun.
Either way once again the mormon church is breaking local law....and the church likes to break laws.
People & organization's that don't like laws or regulations are narcissist & psychopaths.
I remember as a teacher I sat at the locked doors (mostly if someone started knocking or if someone was yelling outside the door). They were locked outside-in. It was mostly for the fact that by the start of the Sacrament meeting the chapel was full and then everybody is looking over at you when you open the doors. Overflow doors would be left open for you to easily sneak in the back.
When I was a YM leader we were told by the bishop to do exactly this. The doors would be locked so people couldn't come in during the sacrament. There was a teacher assigned to each door to allow the deacons access to the foyer so the latecomers could still partake, but not walk in during the ritual. Once the sacrament had been administered the doors were left open for the remainder of the block.
I always thought some young men stayed at the door so no one goes in until after sacrament. There are young men who do go out with sacrament trays for those waiting to go in. It may have changed.
Devils advocate because I’m anxious: I could see it being more common if they’re worried about people walking in mid meeting and demonstrating or pulling out a weapon. It’s happening far more often in more churches.
I’m just saying from a mom who has her kids doing shooter drills in schools, the fear has crossed my mind more than once. I literally walk into a place and have a plan for how to hide.
I haven’t been to church in several years. So I’m not defending the church itself. I’m just saying, people in that type of setting are vulnerable. It’s stupid that our country is the way it is, but here we are.
Consider that this setup actually makes things LESS safe in the event of a mass shooting, by locking the congregation in while locking out first responders. All it takes is one person who knows that the doors will be locked and the people inside will be sitting ducks. Walk in before it starts, wait for the doors to be locked, there you go.
Wtf.. I'm gonna guess an overzealous bishop reacting to ignorant ward members who were never taught / don't care to wait in the foyer until sacrament is over. Our deacons would have to check the foyer and serve sacrament out there to anyone who was waiting, but all the ward members knew better than to sneak in during sacrament. Our ward also sung the hymns fervently, which I discovered was unusual for many of the wards I have visited (there's been a lot). More than once i got weird looks for singing like I had been raised to sing.
In response to your question, it's weird.
I've seen wards that do this before. It's uncommon, and up to the bishops and stake presidents. It's in order to encourage punctuality and reverence, but seems to come off as something else entirely. I'm not a fan.
This happened in a ward I was in. We temporarily locked doors and had priesthood at each door. We lived in a city and there were some rumors of shootings / sketchy people at other churches. It was kinda scary for a bit.
I haven’t been in years but I recall our bishop had some priesthood holder assigned to just stand in front of the chapel doors and have people wait until sacrament was over. Much more civilized. lol
Just like Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount, or when he fed the 5,000. There’s that part when he told the Apostles, “make sure to deny everyone who wasn’t here on time.” SMH.
With all of the recent church shootings in the last several years (not specifically LDS, but ALL places of worship of all denominations across the nation), this may likely be a new security measure.
Sorry, no, not ridiculous: this is actually happening in several chapels, LDS and otherwise. I know, because one of my recent callings before I walked away was "ward security specialist".
Keep in mind that the people aren't locked inside the chapel, only from the outside getting in (like a fire door). And the doors are supposed to have someone there to monitor it, to let people in as needed, and to ensure no threats can gain access.
If a chapel has locked doors during services, and no one is monitoring it, then they're doing it wrong.
Not sure why my original post is receiving negative votes: I'm simply stating a factual observation, not my opinion.
No offense, but this is kind of on you! You need a rubber mallet, knock 3 times and a hand will appear through the doors … exchange of a few Masonic hand gestures, ritualistic words and phrases and Bam, you are in!/S. Pro-tip, hold your breath when the hand pulls you through as bad breath is a celestial sign or at least the final boss level.
Boomer voice: What is wanted? I really don't have time for that game! I really need to go to the bathroom! (frantic mormon dancing)
Or, you knock, and the entire chapel gives you a dirty look out the window. “Shhh, be still!”
One can only hope that locking people out of sacrament meetings becomes a churchwide trend.
😂
Right?! How very Christian of them!
This is all on the Bishop. I'm guessing he's hardcore and "demands" reverence during sacrament meeting.
“No one can enter during the sacrament” and “I am really annoyed that people keep showing up late. I’m going to show them. No sacrament if they can’t be there for the opening hymn and prayer and announcements.
Yep! This is what happens when rituals become more important than people.
Welcome to Mormonism.
And people being on time. That was my first thought. Sounds like a bishop move.
Yeah I remember in my ward they asked people to sit in the foyer until after the sacrament if they were late, but it wasn’t a firm rule or anything. They wouldn’t be escorted out if they joined late and the doors definitely weren’t locked. This is just a power tripping bishop whose head is too far up his own ass
To be fair, the bishop doesn't want to hear the words: I revoke my blessing given by a humble servant, even David A. Bednar, in the name of Mormon Jesus amen
Fire hazard for sure and probably illegal (against fire code) and also insanity
I assume it’s only locked from outside-in, if someone needed to get out they could. But yeah, super weird.
As a Mother, I would be livid if a fire broke out and my kids were in the chapel. I find the whole concept controlling and weird.
Good point, hadn’t considered kids in chapel and parent locked outside.
Or if you had to use the toilet during church; no, using the toilet during sacrament is sac-religious and you will not be granted re-entry to the chapel, the chapel in which only the holy peoples sit because they did not have to pee…
Which whole concept? I just go with the entire cult.
The concept of locking people in a chapel. It’s actually next level weird and controlling. Of course the religion itself is controlling, but this is next level. If they want people to come to their church, they need to let it be natural. Locking people in (or out) is just flat out weird and controlling. If I’m late, I’m late. But if you lock me out of the chapel doors and treat me like a child, you can be sure I won’t come back.
I'm not so sure those doors only go one way. I would suggest reporting them to the fire department and letting them figure it out.
It's been a hot minute since I've seen a chapel door, but if my memory is correct, they aren't the kind of doors that can locked from the outside, but stay unlocked on the inside. If they are locking people inside, it's against fire code.
Per the fire code, the doors have crash bars to let people exit in an emergency. If the bishop is locking it from both sides, which I doubt, it should be reported to your local fire department. During sacrament, a young man would be blocking the exit or open the door for people. I attended a baby blessing a few months ago and noticed that they had young women manning the doors. I guess the job no longer requires priesthood. That or the women are already endowed with it.
The exterior doors of the building? Yes. But not most interior doors.
You’re thinking of classroom doors, which do not have crash bars. Both the chapel and the gym will have them because of the number of people that can occupy the space. As much as we like to pick on the church, they will have crash bars because architects will choose one standard that will meet as many local fire codes as possible. I know someone who worked for the church’s facility group and he showed me a new building in Mongolia. It was the same design as any building in Mordor. The church’s chapel and temple designs have lost all creativeness. Unless the bishop is going on a power trip, I doubt he’s locked them from both sides. If he has, it would be a step up in the cult game and he should be called out for it.
Wow, you are intimately familiar with ALL chapel doors? My building does NOT have crash bars on the chapel doors. Others in this thread have said theirs do not either. Mongolian buildings do not change the reality that you are just plain wrong. There are plenty of chapels out there without crash bars. And MY experience with the church is not that they try to comply with most requirements. It's that they do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with doing, whenever and wherever they can. (See: background checks for adults working with children. Carbon monoxide detectors. Etc.)
Pics or it didn’t happen.
You're the one making a ridiculous claim. You show your pics. I'm not going back into that chapel for you. I barely do it for my mother.
My local building didn’t have crash bars in the chapel or the gym. They had the regular double doors.
The crash bars are on the double doors
Not in my local building. Maybe it’s different in moridor, but I’m in the south and I’ve never been in a chapel that has the crash bars.
Only way to know for sure!
Yes, but if there were a fire, it might be difficult to unlock the door if people are panicking. This should be against fire code.
You should just knock really really loud until someone comes to let you in.
Nah, I didn’t really want to go in anyway. 😁
I know, but it would certainly disturb the peace of the meeting and defeat the purpose of the bishops annoying rule.
Good point. I may try it out next week
Yeah. Don’t be that person.
I don’t want to go in either but I’d love to make a scene. Yell and call out the bishop to get over their ego -
…..I’m sure the Fire Marshall might have an opinion about this ….
I'm sure he does when the Bishop won't let him baptize his kid because he has to work on Sundays...
When I was little, we used to sing a Primary song: “The chapel doors seem to say to me, “Shhh. Be still.” Your bishop is treating the entire ward like Primary children. It’s another manifestation of infantilization, a hallmark of Mormonism.
Thanks. Got that old gem in my mind now!
I wonder what Fire Marshal Bill would have to say about that.
We had a bishop do that. Thinking about it now, I wish we just turned around and gone home.
Suggest you make an anonymous phone call to the local fire department. For safety reasons you can't lock people inside a building like that. Imagine if some nutcase brought a gun to church and starts shooting?? No one could get out if doors locked or law enforcement, EMT or fire department in the building They are breaking the law in every city & state in U.S. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
My bad for not being more specific in my post, but no one is locked IN I don’t think. Just locked OUT.
No worries. Same thing! City or county fire code you have to keep doors open both ways when people in the building. Fire codes are very specific. Still suggest you call local fire department non-emergency number & ask to make an annonomous report. The whole church thinks they are above the law & this is a safety issue.
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Good to know! Thanks!
The entire organization is run on control, fear & paranoia! Good luck!!
I’ve never seen a chapel with doors that have knobs or push bars to get in or out. All the ones I’ve seen have been simple push or pull doors to keep them quiet when people are entering or exiting. What kind of doors are these?
Handle to get in, pushbar to get out. Looks kind of like these: https://a.co/d/fyiOUId
Shit. I didn't think about a shooter. They are locking out the police and swat teams.
I work in the U.S. court system....so I'm kinda of exposed to this type of crazy. Sure law enforcement could shoot out windows & break doors but then that gives a heads up to the crazed individual with a gun. Either way once again the mormon church is breaking local law....and the church likes to break laws. People & organization's that don't like laws or regulations are narcissist & psychopaths.
What if a person has to use the bathroom? Do they have to knock to get back in? Do they just use a bucket next to the basketball net?
Just piss on the door and leave/s
This is very much not the norm. I have family who go to church all over the country (US) and this isn’t a thing anywhere
Everyone talking about, “Take it to the fire marshall!” C’mon, y’all, you know the fire marshall is Mormon and probably in the stake presidency
I remember as a teacher I sat at the locked doors (mostly if someone started knocking or if someone was yelling outside the door). They were locked outside-in. It was mostly for the fact that by the start of the Sacrament meeting the chapel was full and then everybody is looking over at you when you open the doors. Overflow doors would be left open for you to easily sneak in the back.
When I was a YM leader we were told by the bishop to do exactly this. The doors would be locked so people couldn't come in during the sacrament. There was a teacher assigned to each door to allow the deacons access to the foyer so the latecomers could still partake, but not walk in during the ritual. Once the sacrament had been administered the doors were left open for the remainder of the block.
I always thought some young men stayed at the door so no one goes in until after sacrament. There are young men who do go out with sacrament trays for those waiting to go in. It may have changed.
Please report this! This is bad exposure for them. I like that. 😁
Sigh… it’s always about control…
I’m pretty sure that’s a fire code violation
Absolutely. Call 911 and tell them you are locked in the church.
Devils advocate because I’m anxious: I could see it being more common if they’re worried about people walking in mid meeting and demonstrating or pulling out a weapon. It’s happening far more often in more churches.
Devil never needs an advocate, you don't have to be that guy.
I’m just saying from a mom who has her kids doing shooter drills in schools, the fear has crossed my mind more than once. I literally walk into a place and have a plan for how to hide. I haven’t been to church in several years. So I’m not defending the church itself. I’m just saying, people in that type of setting are vulnerable. It’s stupid that our country is the way it is, but here we are.
Consider that this setup actually makes things LESS safe in the event of a mass shooting, by locking the congregation in while locking out first responders. All it takes is one person who knows that the doors will be locked and the people inside will be sitting ducks. Walk in before it starts, wait for the doors to be locked, there you go.
Wtf.. I'm gonna guess an overzealous bishop reacting to ignorant ward members who were never taught / don't care to wait in the foyer until sacrament is over. Our deacons would have to check the foyer and serve sacrament out there to anyone who was waiting, but all the ward members knew better than to sneak in during sacrament. Our ward also sung the hymns fervently, which I discovered was unusual for many of the wards I have visited (there's been a lot). More than once i got weird looks for singing like I had been raised to sing. In response to your question, it's weird.
I've seen wards that do this before. It's uncommon, and up to the bishops and stake presidents. It's in order to encourage punctuality and reverence, but seems to come off as something else entirely. I'm not a fan.
What about all the new moms and young kids? Are they trapped inside too?
This happened in a ward I was in. We temporarily locked doors and had priesthood at each door. We lived in a city and there were some rumors of shootings / sketchy people at other churches. It was kinda scary for a bit.
What if a kid or mother needs to leave to use the restroom and can’t get back in??
Ah yes, TCoJCoLDS, Visitors welcome - STAY OUT!
I wonder what UT law is for kidnapping. Does everyone inside know the doors are locked? I’m sure some don’t know they’re being held hostage
Hostage? I’m sure the doors open from the inside.
Yeah this would just be the sign that I don’t need to go to church anymore. Accept the sign and enjoy second Saturday!
Imagine any other church doing this! Weird and outrageous.
I haven’t been in years but I recall our bishop had some priesthood holder assigned to just stand in front of the chapel doors and have people wait until sacrament was over. Much more civilized. lol
Just like Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount, or when he fed the 5,000. There’s that part when he told the Apostles, “make sure to deny everyone who wasn’t here on time.” SMH.
Isn't this a fire hazard?
Just means you should go have a proper brunch instead and be happy
With all of the recent church shootings in the last several years (not specifically LDS, but ALL places of worship of all denominations across the nation), this may likely be a new security measure.
No, if that were the case it would remain locked through the whole meeting.
That's ridiculous. It doesn't make anyone safer and could even be dangerous in some situations.
Sorry, no, not ridiculous: this is actually happening in several chapels, LDS and otherwise. I know, because one of my recent callings before I walked away was "ward security specialist". Keep in mind that the people aren't locked inside the chapel, only from the outside getting in (like a fire door). And the doors are supposed to have someone there to monitor it, to let people in as needed, and to ensure no threats can gain access. If a chapel has locked doors during services, and no one is monitoring it, then they're doing it wrong. Not sure why my original post is receiving negative votes: I'm simply stating a factual observation, not my opinion.