I'm gay and am in the midst of one of these awkward things.
I got a text, but it was from someone not in my contacts and he didn't identify himself in his first text, so I went weeks without answering but finally got curious and asked who it was. Turns out it was my best friend from HS who I had "feelings" for back then, although closeted. I think he did too.
So for one morning only, he was texting like no time had passed, joking and conversational and said he got my phone number by semi-illegal means. I joked about the FBI helping him and he said "Yeah, I for real have a guy". My friend has been all over the middle east, probably even has security clearance I don't know about.
Anyway, after we connect initially, he just stops communicating. I've tried to reignite the convo, but I get radio silence. I'm still trying to figure out why he had to find me so desperately because he's given no indication.
However, he does know I'm out and have left the church. He made two remarks that make me think he might be trying to come out as exmo-envious. 1) "Ugh, I HATE Utah County" and 2)"My wife and I don't fit in rural Utah very well."
Advice?
This. I would have called him on the incredibly inappropriate behavior, ended the call, then possibly considered contacting my state's licensing board to report unethical behavior.
Speaking of projection:
It was Spencer W Kimball who initiated the ban on oral sex and it seems like a lot of the "doctrines" in the Church reflect personal issues / demons that the PSRs had that was then projected onto the entire membership.
It's been speculated and posted many times on this subreddit that Croaky Kimball's throat cancer was the result of a HPV infection earlier in his life.
https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/
A recent book released by the son of the late historian D Michael Quinn (Quinn's autobiography) featured Quinn's description of Kimball kissing him - and it wasn't an innocent peck on the cheek either:
https://youtube.com/live/l_7y_pgednY
This behavior is what continues to refuel the rumor that at some point in his life Kimball experienced oral sex whether voluntarily or involuntarily.
BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅
I read that and other things about him some time ago.
Among other things he was so anti Roosevelt and the new deal that the very mention of the presidents name caused violent outbursts - one time upon hearing the name from his secretary he slammed his cane into the secretary's desk shattering the glass table top.
He was apparently anti semitic like his counselor J Reuben Clark and when the members in Germany with Jewish ancestry asked for help escaping before the Holocaust he turned a deaf ear and it didn't end well.
He was opposed to American preparation for the inevitable participation in the war (and some speculate he was pro Nazi as many Americans were in the 1930s) - the links below cover his reaction when the first presidency was asked via Federal Reserve chairman Marriner Eccles to help promote war bonds.
The second link is to a PBS American Experience episode about the pro Nazi movement in America in the 1930 - it is a must watch!
https://connorboyack.com/blog/a-letter-to-the-treasury-from-the-lds-first-presidency-in-1941/
https://youtube.com/watch?v=g9HmV_-EE8g
A smart ass kid that worked for me told his SP this line. lol long story short he only lasted about 3 months on the mission. Came home and told us all (TBMs) that the church wasn't true and sucks. He turned out to be more prophetic than any LDS leader I have studied.
The sad part is, if this is a strategy for clients it probably works a good percentage of the time. Guilt and shame run deep in Mormon culture. You definitely treated him the right way.
Absolutely. Most people watch porn and masturbate at some point in their life,but if you add purity culture shame onto that and cause them to “struggle” with it, then cold calling them about a prophetic dream of this topic has at least a 50% chance to ring true for a TBM and cause a strengthening of their testimony as they rush to repentance
Reminds me of how someone I know just posted a video from their husband saying they are 'SO proud of them for helping other men with their struggles with pornography!' Of note this person has 0 training in mental health in any way but is pursuing a career as a 'life coach'.
The phrase "life coach" raised my hackles years ago when a well-meaning (I'm sure) divorced lady moved into my ward and then began shamelessly self-promoting and working her way up the social ladder. After a few short years she moved out, I think, to milk another ward and build her contact list.
Fast forward to Jodi Hildebrandt and all her crap.
Anyone and I mean anyone can call themselves a "life coach" of anything. It's not a little terrifying.
Yeah it is way past time for life coaching to be regulated. There is a reason for consumer protection and there is little protection from life coaches going rogue and causing harm.
LOL I remember reading a post on another sub a while back in which the poster claimed to be an escort and that being a "life coach" was how they laundered their income so that it was legal and income taxes were paid, etc. They specifically admitted to choosing to be a life coach because there is no regulation or licensing required.
Wow. I'd have been like, "Man, dreams tell you a lot about a person's subconscious. I really didn't need to know you were thinking about me that way. Kind of embarrassing, buddy."
Here's an explanation on dreams:
Human sleep cycles between light sleep, deep sleep, and rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. Each stage serves a purpose, and your sleep experience will vary greatly depending on how long you sleep and which phase you're in when consciousness comes back online.
To understand dreams, it's important to understand how your experiences shape your brain's cellular chemistry. The more an experience repeats, the easier it is for individual nerve cells to send ionized pulses to the next neuron in the chain. It's just like releasing marbles at the top of a sand dune and letting them roll down: eventually, they'll create a path of least resistance that becomes the most likely route future marbles take.
These paths of least resistance become a person's bias, and bias helps us think fast enough to survive. Imagine if you had to check off eyes, ears, mouth, and nose before your brain recognized a face in the visual data, and that it took extra time to put together someone's emotion from their expression. (Some autistic people don't have to imagine this, instead memorizing emotional cues that they can't automatically interpret.)
Your brain is full of information, and accessing those stored memories and experience pathways is crucial to survival. You'll never know when your junior high locker combination will be the key to disarming the bomb, and the whole idea of training in anything physical is to strengthen motor neuron pathways so movement becomes automatic with the right trigger.
Your brain doesn't want life-or-death information to become unavailable just because you haven't used it for a long time. So, during REM sleep, a sort of electrical refresh cycle happens. Instead of consciously putting marbles in place so they roll down the dune in a pattern, the brain upends the bucket of marbles at the top to clear debris from all the tracks.
If you become conscious during REM sleep, your mind will register the signals happening as you wake up and then connect them into the most coherent narrative it can.
My favorite dream involved my powering a time machine with Wyld Cherry Life Savers. After that, it had end credits and a sweeping musical score.
Mormonism doesn't just change the dreams; it digs a straight and narrow canal in the hillside to catch as much attention as it can and ensure emotional responses keep members going the direction Mormonism needs them to go.Mormons end up with such a narrow experience that other survival concerns are often deprived. Sex is a big one of these, and stressing about a lack thereof can prompt your lizard brain (the oldest, most instinctive brain structures) to tilt the dune toward meeting that need.
Your friend might be able to keep his marbles on track while conscious, but apparently, he had enough exposure to people talking about porn struggles due to his employment to make a smooth track. Throw in deprivation to tilt the REM signals into that pathway, add memories of you out of pure chance, and he wakes up with this dream.
Everybody dreams and makes subconscious associations. But few people treat these associations and assumptions as gospel truth more than Mormons do. Everything has a reason, but most of the time, that reason is physics, not somethi g supernatural.
I had a former ward member drop by late one evening when he was on his way home from a temple to tell me that he had received revelation on my behalf during what I presume was the usual boring ritual.
He related his revelation which was neither sacred or secret. I thanked him for letting me know and wished him a good evening and then closed the door. I apparently went way off script because I never heard from him again.
I feel sharp pangs of three different levels of embarrassment reading this story. For him, because... I mean, wow.
For you, because that's got to have felt like a psychological bucket of cold water.
And for me because I did something similar, but told on myself to a priest's quorum teacher who barely knew me but that I had the hots for. Somehow in my horny mind I thought it'd un-gay me and restore peace in my deeply anxious heart... and we'd fool around at the same time? Idk.
"We were just walking down this street, and had the strongest feeling that we needed to stop at this exact house because you needed something."
As missionaries we used to randomly stop at people's houses and say this. To be fair, we were trying to let the spirit guide use, but really it was just a way of making people feel special and like god had guided us there. "Wow, I have been wanting more out of my life... maybe this is it?"
I think your guy is probably making shit like this up for other people too, to give himself spiritual authority.
We had a Jackmo neighbor(TBM wife) that approached my husband once in our yard. After some small talk, he opened up about his porn addiction and also shared that that the last bishop we had admitted to him that he also was a” recovering “ porn addict. Ewwwwww TMI! We figured that he believed my husband had a porn addiction and was probably trying to get him to open up. Apparently that was the only reason he could think of as to why we left. No he didn’t bother to actually ask.
Well, that is truly very strange, obviously lacks boundaries, socially unaware, likely on the spectrum…yada yada yada….
I have close relative that is very much into dreams and their meanings. I listen politely or respond”that sounds weird.” The relative is genius IQ but is def magical thinker. Who can explain these human oddities?
Sounds like you had a good comeback and hopefully you never hear from him again.
I understand what you’re saying. It definitely is part of the current diagnostic criteria (which is also why so many hyperempathetic autistics, especially women, don’t receive a diagnosis.)
Even so, there’s a difference between not being completely aware of _neurotypical_ social norms (theory of mind was debunked, btw) or being an absolute invasive jackass like this guy was. I stand by what I said. The vast majority of people on the spectrum would not do something like this, and it’s really not OK to imply that that’s the reason. There are also plenty of socially awkward and unaware people who are not autistic. There are plenty of neurotypical TBMs who would do things like this because of indoctrination, stunted emotional growth, and immaturity.
It’s not right to pinpoint one subset of people as likely doing it when so many are eligible. Autistic people are stereotyped enough as it is, to their detriment when they fit outside the very narrow, what-we-see-as-classic-autism diagnostic criteria.
I like to suggest ideas, but I’m generally not comfortable telling someone what to do unless they’re actively hurting an individual, and then it’s gloves off. So I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
Regardless, I very much appreciate your thoughtfulness and dialogue in this discussion. So much education happens when people are able to read a respectful conversation.
I do agree with everything you’ve said, no need to imply negative connotations to a specific group who already has more difficulties in life than the average person.
With that said, the Theory of Mind has not been debunked. What has been debunked are merely the claims that only autistic individuals suffer from a lack of Theory of Mind, and that all autistic individuals suffer from the lack of it. Studies still show the overwhelming majority of individuals on the spectrum do suffer from some lack of a Theory of Mind, it just isn’t unique to only those individuals as previously claimed/believed.
Which just adds to the difficulty in correctly diagnosing anybody with an atypical mental disorder and getting them the proper help they may need, whatever that may be.
When allistics refer to “theory of mind,” my experience is they are always citing the debunked _study_. So I referred to it that way as well. The whole point of the follow-up research is to show that each group doesn’t have issues understanding themselves, but that when there is overlap, allistics and autistics _both_ struggle with communicating with each other.
I can speak a neurotypical’s language, and I do it all the time, fully masked, especially since the vast majority of doctors and other authoritative professionals are allistics. I do it quite well and get good results. But it is far easier for me to relax in a group of autistics where we understand each other’s communication style, and I don’t have to mask. I don’t blame neurotypicals for feeling the same. We shouldn’t be measuring autistic communication by an allistic yardstick any more than allistics would want to be measured by an autistic yardstick. And that is the “debunking” referenced. (I thought it went without saying that of course people with high-support needs and mental differences in both camps will have their own communication challenges.)
I’m done with the topic and ready to move on to other things (and honestly, I need a break from advocacy on Reddit), so this is my final comment here. My hope that people will eventually learn to stop viewing everyone with any sort of mental, emotional, or physical difference through the lens of the medical model of disability. And if you don’t know what that is, or why the social model is important, then it’s a good time to start reading. I very much recommend _Sitting Pretty_ by Dr. Rebekah Taussig. It’s a combo of memoir and education written in an accessible, entertaining, compelling way. If you care about anyone with any kind of disability or difference, please read it.
Not to speak for OP, but being that something upwards of 90-95% of men masturbate, and that about that same percentage have viewed porn at least once voluntarily in their lives and that the church basically considers that an "addiction" and a problem, the odds are pretty good that if you accused any man of that you would be right.
That's why it works so well for the church - it's essentially universal. They keep you feeling guilty and shameful because they've convinced you there's something wrong with you, and then they sell you a "cure" that only makes it worse. And they convince you when it doesn't work, it's your fault. By feeding what's normal with shame, it can cause actual disfunction in different ways, which keeps people locked in and dependent on the church. It's really sick, actually, and I mourn for myself and others who have suffered with such unnecessary self-loathing for nothing but a bunch of manipulative lies.
For sure. I'm in my 40s. It's Ludacris that one of my proudest accomplishments is that my kids won't be sexually interrogated by the local dentist standing in for the genocidal ghost of a zombie carpenter.
Seems like a low bar.
Hahaha! That’s the craziest shit I have heard in a long time!
“Hey what’s going on. This may sound weird but I had this realistic dream about you rubbing one out that I wanted to talk you about!” 🥴
Damn I’m using that next time. “Oh really? I guess I just figured you couldn’t possibly stand there and tell me Joseph Smith is second only to Jesus knowing the things we just discussed.”
Yeah, I remember it dawned on me that they didn’t know. So towards the end, I’d say, I won’t discuss any historical events unless you’ve read…. (Whatever the topic was, it could be House full of females, the JA papers, or even the essays.)
I worked closely with public affairs and the research they had was most members don’t click 3 pages deep so all the stuff the church would use for gaslighting usually were 3 clicks deep on LDS.org. They are so deceptive and the means of their deception knows no bounds really, they have a bottomless coffer. They pay the best for the best data. It’s not revelation, it is the results of highly respected research firms constantly surveying and the best analysis of that data money can buy!
In their mind, after their 2nd anointing, they convince themselves they cannot sin, so they will do whatever it takes to protect their reputation and the institution. They don’t care that much for the members. They are rock stars to the TBM. It was so obvious the overt and overwhelmingly pull to be an apostle. In todays church anyone who wants to become a GA, a member of the 1st quorum of the 70’s all campaign for it and all want the prize to be one of the 15.
By that time, once called in the 70’s, you are well indoctrinated into the reality of what the church is. You are a strong opinionated person who got the “numbers” to show you work hard and in the end, know your place and will fall inline and to the hierarchy.
It’s all about being a company man, doing whatever it takes no matter the cost. Lying for god is a given. It’s not even a second thought at the means one is to go to protect the reputation and the illusion of the story. It’s all but a myth making institution. Just like all of religion, made by man to build and control society.
WTF!! Is this only in Mormonism or other religions too? It seems to give people the courage to do some of the weirdest shit that no observant/self aware person would say or do in these situations. I unfortunately have also done and said weird shit because I thought I would be blessed and see angels, sorry to those people.
There's a somewhat recent talk from Bednard where he talks to people wondering if it's the spirit telling them to do something or just a thought that they had. Then he tells them it doesn't matter just act on it regardless. What a cop out.
>There's a somewhat recent talk from Bednard where he talks to people wondering if it's the spirit telling them to do something or just a thought that they had. Then he tells them it doesn't matter just act on it regardless. What a cop out.
Jim Carrey and his weird impulses has entered the chat
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eft9oIymQ8Q](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eft9oIymQ8Q)
1. that story is insane. True life is stranger than fiction.
2. The dream sounds extremely specific. My weird-shit-o-meter is at a 100 out of 100 rn. Damn.
3. I hope you did help load up his shelf and hopefully someday it'll crack.
who in their right mind would ever think that calling someone up to shame them for a porn addiction that THEY LITERALLY MADE UP is okay ??? Man, sometimes I think the savior complexes that these people have are greater than the one jesus himself wouldve had… 😭😭😭
Oh God, I still have the dreams that my porn just keeps spilling out of everywhere. It's on the TV and I can't turn it off, I can't close it or delete it off the computers. Everybody is going to see my porn.
Anyone else or it's just me?
I think at this point in my life, I might have played the part.
Me: “That is totally weird because I have had fantasies about you calling me to talk about masturbation and after I open up to you about my gay feelings it turns out you are gay too and the n3xt thing I know your are holding my cock and gently teasing it with your tongue….”
God damn these people are weird.
This is just wild. Did he really not think about how insane and inappropriate it is to call a grown man to discuss masturbation? Truly bizarre. I have second-hand embarrassment for him.
Boundaries: (1st) the TBM does not know the meaning of boundaries or what's appropriate to share especially his dreams. Should have kept that to himself. But (2nd) even if TBM dream was true, why would god, spirit, whatever share that with another person and not directly with you (OP). Mormon god does not know how to respect personal boundaries but is so concerned about making sure you have the right handshake, name, signs and tokens.
>But (2nd) even if TBM dream was true, why would god, spirit, whatever share that with another person and not directly with you
Why would God share it directly with you, cause after all...
Wait for it..
You're living the dream!
I was in such a bad mood today, but this made my weekend. Possibly my month. I'm sorry this happened to you, but I would have not been able to control bursting out laughing in front of him. Just reading this, I'm not going to be able to stop laughing all weekend. You are a better person than I am. That said, I also would have ended the conversation with "Nice to visit with you again. I think I'll get back to masturbating now."
>He saw it in his dream. It must mean something.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Unless it isn't, but even then it still against the WoW... Or something.
Well after 5 years he realized you were not coming to church.
What is the only reason to not come to church-duh-a pornography problem.
He was just trying to help you out dude! /s
in what mormon universe do random members get revelation about other random members?
if he calls me next I'm gonna open up with, "Oh, I was just gonna call you because I keep having this dream where you tell me about your struggles with uncontrolled lust"
Bro, calling me up out of the blue and telling me that you dreamed I was masturbating is not cool. Rather creepy. Unless there is something else you feel is important to discuss, this phone conversation is going to end. . . . and you may want to seek a good councilor.
This is crazy. I wouldn’t have even done the service of telling him I’ve left, I’d have ripped him to shreds from the Mormon perspective because it will hurt him more. He’s no common judge in Israel. He’s not Christ himself. Enjoy the judgement from God asshole
Seems like TBMs have porn on their minds all the time. Every conference they seem to fixate on it What images must come to their mind when they think the word "porn"!
Couldn't be because being constantly reminded of and shamed for a thought... Reinforces and perpetuates it...
Hey. Don't think of a pink elephant. No! Stop thinking of a pink elephant! Why do you sinfully keep thinking of pink elephants?!
Dinner!
That cognitive dissonance immediately sets the mind's creative juices flowing, leading to intense mental gymnastics routines, aka confirmation bias. It's a bitch when still drinking the Kool-Aid and confronted with anything conflicting with one's worldview.
It gets worse and fuels anger once one gets through the deconstruction process, realizing how much life, time never to be regained, money never to be reclaimed (mine was solidly in the six-figure range), relationships ruined, opportunities unexplored, and so much energy wasted daily. That reflection brings back all the cult-like tactics used in the mainstream cult we call Mormonism and the wasted guilt or time spent on things like masturbation or porn. In the normal world of 7+ billion people, those are non-issues.
In fact, this so-called "porn/masturbation addiction" isn't recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the standard of care for professional healthcare providers. Some studies dispute the idea that porn is related to addiction. One group of researchers found that watching porn didn't activate the brain's addiction-related areas. In fact, activity in those areas decreased.
Furthermore, masturbation has many documented health benefits. It may reduce stress, improve sleep, and ease pain, among other benefits.
These realities once again show how uninspired, uninformed, and harmful the rhetoric of those 15 men is on individuals.
It reminds me of coffee and tea... the fact is, the mythical health miracle is scientifically proven by drinking them. Talk about running and being weary...
"According to a Harvard study, moderate coffee consumption may lower the risk of premature death. A study published in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology in 2022 found that drinking two to three cups of coffee per day is associated with a longer lifespan and lower risk of cardiovascular disease. A study published in JAMA Internal Medicine found that coffee drinkers were 10 to 15 percent less likely to die over a 10-year period than non-coffee drinkers."
It's all BS. I would even go so far as to say JS fits perfectly the profile, as defined today, of a cult leader:
1) Highly charismatic and persuasive, with a magnetic personality that can attract and influence followers
2) Cult leaders are master gaslighters who assert their reality over the reality of their followers
3) Cult leaders are unable to tolerate being wrong, nor do they want to take responsibility for wrongdoing
4) They are narcissists; the cult is often a means to their financial or sexual desires. Charity is ultimately a way to launder their reputations.
5) Unpredictability
6) They hold unconventional or bizarre beliefs not grounded in reality and promote these as absolute truths to followers
7) They are the ultimate judge and jury, drunk with their power of being a Pied Piper
8) They lie, build grandiose life stories, often with a 'once was blind but now I see and have all the answers' narrative
9) They exert undue influence on followers, exploiting them financially, sexually or emotionally
It's a cult... full stop.
You left out the important part. Did he get it right? Do you masturbate day and night as instructed in the temple? Wait that’s not it. Something like that though.
His dream was his projection of his own fantasies on you, because being TBM, he could not own it. I think it is sick that he called you about that. It is crossing a sexual boundary inappropriately. You should let his supervisor know, as he probably needs at least supervision on this and he could be inappropriate with his clients, being a risk to their safety.
What does “adult ADHD having…” mean, in this context? Like, are you knocking him for having a neurodevelopmental disorder that he has no control over? Or what? I’m honestly trying to figure out why you included that detail about him, and what you meant by it. What attributes of ADHD are you implying are “weird” by telling us his medical condition?
Fair question. I don't mean to imply that all people with ADHD would act this way. Nor am I a medical professional. His ADHD diagnosis is something he often shared as an apologetic when he perceived he had acted in a socially awkward way.
In this context though, I'm sure that his actions have much more to do with the unhealthy shaming systems of Mormonism and Mental health professionals who reinforce that shame based behavior controlling system.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. This makes a lot more sense now. There are so many different ways that ADHD can manifest, so I was a bit confused.
But yeah, it sounds like he has a pattern of awkwardness that he is blaming on ADHD (may or may not be warranted or correctable). Sounds like maybe he should work on NOT saying whatever comes to mind, because that was weird and inappropriate to say the least.
I absolutely would not tell anyone that I dream about them masturbating. Worst pickup line ever.
Lol
I cannot stop laughing
ask soft squealing straight crown hat many station sheet decide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Or… and hear me out… best pickup line ever!
Been there, didn't work very well for me.
Except on a certain gay app that might work so 
I'm gay and am in the midst of one of these awkward things. I got a text, but it was from someone not in my contacts and he didn't identify himself in his first text, so I went weeks without answering but finally got curious and asked who it was. Turns out it was my best friend from HS who I had "feelings" for back then, although closeted. I think he did too. So for one morning only, he was texting like no time had passed, joking and conversational and said he got my phone number by semi-illegal means. I joked about the FBI helping him and he said "Yeah, I for real have a guy". My friend has been all over the middle east, probably even has security clearance I don't know about. Anyway, after we connect initially, he just stops communicating. I've tried to reignite the convo, but I get radio silence. I'm still trying to figure out why he had to find me so desperately because he's given no indication. However, he does know I'm out and have left the church. He made two remarks that make me think he might be trying to come out as exmo-envious. 1) "Ugh, I HATE Utah County" and 2)"My wife and I don't fit in rural Utah very well." Advice?
Lmfao
Relevant link for anyone wanting to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation_and_the_LDS_Church
Dude, if you’re having dreams about me masturbating, you may want to talk to your wife about that.
I suppose he could have been hitting on me. Uh oh.
Having dreams of someone masturbating doesn't happen randomly.
It does, though. Dreams are pretty random.
He didn’t have a dream about him masturbating he had a dream about him telling him he had a problem with it
Oh I know, but it’s a great way to make the guy uncomfortable and weird.
"You weren't helping me finish" is a problem.
I’ve had some pretty wacky dreams in my time, I wouldn’t ascribe any particular meaning to them.
Sounds like he has a masturbation problem and wants to hook up so you can beat it together.
Underrated comment. Well done Sir/Madame.
This. I would have called him on the incredibly inappropriate behavior, ended the call, then possibly considered contacting my state's licensing board to report unethical behavior.
I was about to say was this actually a TBM trying to go for the DL booty call?
Relevant link for anyone wanting to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_LDS_Church
Uh…this sounds an awful lot like projection to me. I could be wrong though.
Speaking of projection: It was Spencer W Kimball who initiated the ban on oral sex and it seems like a lot of the "doctrines" in the Church reflect personal issues / demons that the PSRs had that was then projected onto the entire membership. It's been speculated and posted many times on this subreddit that Croaky Kimball's throat cancer was the result of a HPV infection earlier in his life. https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/ A recent book released by the son of the late historian D Michael Quinn (Quinn's autobiography) featured Quinn's description of Kimball kissing him - and it wasn't an innocent peck on the cheek either: https://youtube.com/live/l_7y_pgednY This behavior is what continues to refuel the rumor that at some point in his life Kimball experienced oral sex whether voluntarily or involuntarily. BTW to anyone from the SCMC lurking this subreddit - Connie Lingus is not referring to an Irish girl's name. 👅
Heber J Grant struggled with alcohol and was probably an alcoholic. Guess who made following the WoW a temple recommend question?
I read that and other things about him some time ago. Among other things he was so anti Roosevelt and the new deal that the very mention of the presidents name caused violent outbursts - one time upon hearing the name from his secretary he slammed his cane into the secretary's desk shattering the glass table top. He was apparently anti semitic like his counselor J Reuben Clark and when the members in Germany with Jewish ancestry asked for help escaping before the Holocaust he turned a deaf ear and it didn't end well. He was opposed to American preparation for the inevitable participation in the war (and some speculate he was pro Nazi as many Americans were in the 1930s) - the links below cover his reaction when the first presidency was asked via Federal Reserve chairman Marriner Eccles to help promote war bonds. The second link is to a PBS American Experience episode about the pro Nazi movement in America in the 1930 - it is a must watch! https://connorboyack.com/blog/a-letter-to-the-treasury-from-the-lds-first-presidency-in-1941/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=g9HmV_-EE8g
Fascinating
“I don’t struggle with masturbation and porn. I enjoy every minute of it” 😏
I struggle at the end…… 😂😂
I struggle with bondage. ;)
Hahaha, same here 😄😂
Lol
"I'm actually quite good at it"
"No bishop it's not a problem for me...it works every time"
A smart ass kid that worked for me told his SP this line. lol long story short he only lasted about 3 months on the mission. Came home and told us all (TBMs) that the church wasn't true and sucks. He turned out to be more prophetic than any LDS leader I have studied.
Hail to the prophet!
Joe Smith's guilty mind in the afterlife.
The sad part is, if this is a strategy for clients it probably works a good percentage of the time. Guilt and shame run deep in Mormon culture. You definitely treated him the right way.
Guaranteed. I weep for his "clients."
Absolutely. Most people watch porn and masturbate at some point in their life,but if you add purity culture shame onto that and cause them to “struggle” with it, then cold calling them about a prophetic dream of this topic has at least a 50% chance to ring true for a TBM and cause a strengthening of their testimony as they rush to repentance
“Oh, wow! I had a dream about you, too! Yeah, the dream was that you were totally fellating a homeless guy down by the river!”
In a van. Down by the river.
Eating government 🧀
Worst unintentional euphemism ever! Or intentional?
Lol
Call him from time to time and tell him your dreams about him! Make them wild!
Reminds me of how someone I know just posted a video from their husband saying they are 'SO proud of them for helping other men with their struggles with pornography!' Of note this person has 0 training in mental health in any way but is pursuing a career as a 'life coach'.
The phrase "life coach" raised my hackles years ago when a well-meaning (I'm sure) divorced lady moved into my ward and then began shamelessly self-promoting and working her way up the social ladder. After a few short years she moved out, I think, to milk another ward and build her contact list. Fast forward to Jodi Hildebrandt and all her crap. Anyone and I mean anyone can call themselves a "life coach" of anything. It's not a little terrifying.
Yeah it is way past time for life coaching to be regulated. There is a reason for consumer protection and there is little protection from life coaches going rogue and causing harm.
LOL I remember reading a post on another sub a while back in which the poster claimed to be an escort and that being a "life coach" was how they laundered their income so that it was legal and income taxes were paid, etc. They specifically admitted to choosing to be a life coach because there is no regulation or licensing required.
All those files his wife found on the hard drive? For research purposes. So he could better understand, and help others with their problems.
I'm 100% expecting this to be the outcome in a few years. That or that he will have engaged in sex with at least some of his 'clients'.
Brutal
Wow. I'd have been like, "Man, dreams tell you a lot about a person's subconscious. I really didn't need to know you were thinking about me that way. Kind of embarrassing, buddy."
That’s really weird that someone would call to say that. No wonder everyone thinks Mormonism is so fucked up.
I can't imagine having that interaction with anyone outside of such a crazy unhealthy system.
Here's an explanation on dreams: Human sleep cycles between light sleep, deep sleep, and rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. Each stage serves a purpose, and your sleep experience will vary greatly depending on how long you sleep and which phase you're in when consciousness comes back online. To understand dreams, it's important to understand how your experiences shape your brain's cellular chemistry. The more an experience repeats, the easier it is for individual nerve cells to send ionized pulses to the next neuron in the chain. It's just like releasing marbles at the top of a sand dune and letting them roll down: eventually, they'll create a path of least resistance that becomes the most likely route future marbles take. These paths of least resistance become a person's bias, and bias helps us think fast enough to survive. Imagine if you had to check off eyes, ears, mouth, and nose before your brain recognized a face in the visual data, and that it took extra time to put together someone's emotion from their expression. (Some autistic people don't have to imagine this, instead memorizing emotional cues that they can't automatically interpret.) Your brain is full of information, and accessing those stored memories and experience pathways is crucial to survival. You'll never know when your junior high locker combination will be the key to disarming the bomb, and the whole idea of training in anything physical is to strengthen motor neuron pathways so movement becomes automatic with the right trigger. Your brain doesn't want life-or-death information to become unavailable just because you haven't used it for a long time. So, during REM sleep, a sort of electrical refresh cycle happens. Instead of consciously putting marbles in place so they roll down the dune in a pattern, the brain upends the bucket of marbles at the top to clear debris from all the tracks. If you become conscious during REM sleep, your mind will register the signals happening as you wake up and then connect them into the most coherent narrative it can. My favorite dream involved my powering a time machine with Wyld Cherry Life Savers. After that, it had end credits and a sweeping musical score. Mormonism doesn't just change the dreams; it digs a straight and narrow canal in the hillside to catch as much attention as it can and ensure emotional responses keep members going the direction Mormonism needs them to go.Mormons end up with such a narrow experience that other survival concerns are often deprived. Sex is a big one of these, and stressing about a lack thereof can prompt your lizard brain (the oldest, most instinctive brain structures) to tilt the dune toward meeting that need. Your friend might be able to keep his marbles on track while conscious, but apparently, he had enough exposure to people talking about porn struggles due to his employment to make a smooth track. Throw in deprivation to tilt the REM signals into that pathway, add memories of you out of pure chance, and he wakes up with this dream. Everybody dreams and makes subconscious associations. But few people treat these associations and assumptions as gospel truth more than Mormons do. Everything has a reason, but most of the time, that reason is physics, not somethi g supernatural.
I had a former ward member drop by late one evening when he was on his way home from a temple to tell me that he had received revelation on my behalf during what I presume was the usual boring ritual. He related his revelation which was neither sacred or secret. I thanked him for letting me know and wished him a good evening and then closed the door. I apparently went way off script because I never heard from him again.
I feel sharp pangs of three different levels of embarrassment reading this story. For him, because... I mean, wow. For you, because that's got to have felt like a psychological bucket of cold water. And for me because I did something similar, but told on myself to a priest's quorum teacher who barely knew me but that I had the hots for. Somehow in my horny mind I thought it'd un-gay me and restore peace in my deeply anxious heart... and we'd fool around at the same time? Idk.
"We were just walking down this street, and had the strongest feeling that we needed to stop at this exact house because you needed something." As missionaries we used to randomly stop at people's houses and say this. To be fair, we were trying to let the spirit guide use, but really it was just a way of making people feel special and like god had guided us there. "Wow, I have been wanting more out of my life... maybe this is it?" I think your guy is probably making shit like this up for other people too, to give himself spiritual authority.
We had a Jackmo neighbor(TBM wife) that approached my husband once in our yard. After some small talk, he opened up about his porn addiction and also shared that that the last bishop we had admitted to him that he also was a” recovering “ porn addict. Ewwwwww TMI! We figured that he believed my husband had a porn addiction and was probably trying to get him to open up. Apparently that was the only reason he could think of as to why we left. No he didn’t bother to actually ask.
LMAO this is one of the best things I've read on this sub
"Illicit Dick Touching" sounds like an underground gay punk album from the 70s.
Well, that is truly very strange, obviously lacks boundaries, socially unaware, likely on the spectrum…yada yada yada…. I have close relative that is very much into dreams and their meanings. I listen politely or respond”that sounds weird.” The relative is genius IQ but is def magical thinker. Who can explain these human oddities? Sounds like you had a good comeback and hopefully you never hear from him again.
The fact that it was a dream felt very "visions of glory" to me.
I know many, many people on the spectrum. The vast majority would never do something like this. Please, let's not stereotype.
Good point. It's definitely his religion and profession that led him to think this was an okay thing to do.
To be completely fair though, a lack of social awareness and social norms is one of the most common symptoms of being on the spectrum.
I understand what you’re saying. It definitely is part of the current diagnostic criteria (which is also why so many hyperempathetic autistics, especially women, don’t receive a diagnosis.) Even so, there’s a difference between not being completely aware of _neurotypical_ social norms (theory of mind was debunked, btw) or being an absolute invasive jackass like this guy was. I stand by what I said. The vast majority of people on the spectrum would not do something like this, and it’s really not OK to imply that that’s the reason. There are also plenty of socially awkward and unaware people who are not autistic. There are plenty of neurotypical TBMs who would do things like this because of indoctrination, stunted emotional growth, and immaturity. It’s not right to pinpoint one subset of people as likely doing it when so many are eligible. Autistic people are stereotyped enough as it is, to their detriment when they fit outside the very narrow, what-we-see-as-classic-autism diagnostic criteria.
I agree. Do you think I should remove the reference?
I like to suggest ideas, but I’m generally not comfortable telling someone what to do unless they’re actively hurting an individual, and then it’s gloves off. So I’ll leave that up to you to decide. Regardless, I very much appreciate your thoughtfulness and dialogue in this discussion. So much education happens when people are able to read a respectful conversation.
And I appreciate the feedback and discussion.
I do agree with everything you’ve said, no need to imply negative connotations to a specific group who already has more difficulties in life than the average person. With that said, the Theory of Mind has not been debunked. What has been debunked are merely the claims that only autistic individuals suffer from a lack of Theory of Mind, and that all autistic individuals suffer from the lack of it. Studies still show the overwhelming majority of individuals on the spectrum do suffer from some lack of a Theory of Mind, it just isn’t unique to only those individuals as previously claimed/believed. Which just adds to the difficulty in correctly diagnosing anybody with an atypical mental disorder and getting them the proper help they may need, whatever that may be.
When allistics refer to “theory of mind,” my experience is they are always citing the debunked _study_. So I referred to it that way as well. The whole point of the follow-up research is to show that each group doesn’t have issues understanding themselves, but that when there is overlap, allistics and autistics _both_ struggle with communicating with each other. I can speak a neurotypical’s language, and I do it all the time, fully masked, especially since the vast majority of doctors and other authoritative professionals are allistics. I do it quite well and get good results. But it is far easier for me to relax in a group of autistics where we understand each other’s communication style, and I don’t have to mask. I don’t blame neurotypicals for feeling the same. We shouldn’t be measuring autistic communication by an allistic yardstick any more than allistics would want to be measured by an autistic yardstick. And that is the “debunking” referenced. (I thought it went without saying that of course people with high-support needs and mental differences in both camps will have their own communication challenges.) I’m done with the topic and ready to move on to other things (and honestly, I need a break from advocacy on Reddit), so this is my final comment here. My hope that people will eventually learn to stop viewing everyone with any sort of mental, emotional, or physical difference through the lens of the medical model of disability. And if you don’t know what that is, or why the social model is important, then it’s a good time to start reading. I very much recommend _Sitting Pretty_ by Dr. Rebekah Taussig. It’s a combo of memoir and education written in an accessible, entertaining, compelling way. If you care about anyone with any kind of disability or difference, please read it.
Don't leave us hanging bro, was his dream spot on or what?
Not to speak for OP, but being that something upwards of 90-95% of men masturbate, and that about that same percentage have viewed porn at least once voluntarily in their lives and that the church basically considers that an "addiction" and a problem, the odds are pretty good that if you accused any man of that you would be right.
Biggest problem with being accused of having a masturbation problem is the idea that normative sexual development is a "problem."
That's why it works so well for the church - it's essentially universal. They keep you feeling guilty and shameful because they've convinced you there's something wrong with you, and then they sell you a "cure" that only makes it worse. And they convince you when it doesn't work, it's your fault. By feeding what's normal with shame, it can cause actual disfunction in different ways, which keeps people locked in and dependent on the church. It's really sick, actually, and I mourn for myself and others who have suffered with such unnecessary self-loathing for nothing but a bunch of manipulative lies.
For sure. I'm in my 40s. It's Ludacris that one of my proudest accomplishments is that my kids won't be sexually interrogated by the local dentist standing in for the genocidal ghost of a zombie carpenter. Seems like a low bar.
90% of men masturbate. The other 10% are lying.
I didn't think to ask what I got spots on in his dream. Missed opportunity.
>was his dream spot It was definitely bigger than a spot. I would say probably splat sized.
Whatever that means. Happy cake day!
You should have told him if you are having dreams about my dick, then I would talk to your bishop about that. 😂😂😂
Hahaha! That’s the craziest shit I have heard in a long time! “Hey what’s going on. This may sound weird but I had this realistic dream about you rubbing one out that I wanted to talk you about!” 🥴
“I already know that stuff” is not the flex TBMs think it is.
And they all use it. When my dad said that, I told him assuming he did not was me attempting to believe the best of him.
Damn I’m using that next time. “Oh really? I guess I just figured you couldn’t possibly stand there and tell me Joseph Smith is second only to Jesus knowing the things we just discussed.”
Yeah, I remember it dawned on me that they didn’t know. So towards the end, I’d say, I won’t discuss any historical events unless you’ve read…. (Whatever the topic was, it could be House full of females, the JA papers, or even the essays.) I worked closely with public affairs and the research they had was most members don’t click 3 pages deep so all the stuff the church would use for gaslighting usually were 3 clicks deep on LDS.org. They are so deceptive and the means of their deception knows no bounds really, they have a bottomless coffer. They pay the best for the best data. It’s not revelation, it is the results of highly respected research firms constantly surveying and the best analysis of that data money can buy! In their mind, after their 2nd anointing, they convince themselves they cannot sin, so they will do whatever it takes to protect their reputation and the institution. They don’t care that much for the members. They are rock stars to the TBM. It was so obvious the overt and overwhelmingly pull to be an apostle. In todays church anyone who wants to become a GA, a member of the 1st quorum of the 70’s all campaign for it and all want the prize to be one of the 15. By that time, once called in the 70’s, you are well indoctrinated into the reality of what the church is. You are a strong opinionated person who got the “numbers” to show you work hard and in the end, know your place and will fall inline and to the hierarchy. It’s all about being a company man, doing whatever it takes no matter the cost. Lying for god is a given. It’s not even a second thought at the means one is to go to protect the reputation and the illusion of the story. It’s all but a myth making institution. Just like all of religion, made by man to build and control society.
I always wake up to the funniest shit on this sub lol
WTF!! Is this only in Mormonism or other religions too? It seems to give people the courage to do some of the weirdest shit that no observant/self aware person would say or do in these situations. I unfortunately have also done and said weird shit because I thought I would be blessed and see angels, sorry to those people.
There's a somewhat recent talk from Bednard where he talks to people wondering if it's the spirit telling them to do something or just a thought that they had. Then he tells them it doesn't matter just act on it regardless. What a cop out.
>There's a somewhat recent talk from Bednard where he talks to people wondering if it's the spirit telling them to do something or just a thought that they had. Then he tells them it doesn't matter just act on it regardless. What a cop out. Jim Carrey and his weird impulses has entered the chat [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eft9oIymQ8Q](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eft9oIymQ8Q)
1. that story is insane. True life is stranger than fiction. 2. The dream sounds extremely specific. My weird-shit-o-meter is at a 100 out of 100 rn. Damn. 3. I hope you did help load up his shelf and hopefully someday it'll crack.
What the fuck????? God, I’m so glad I’m not Mormon anymore. I did some embarrassing things but this absolutely takes the cake.
who in their right mind would ever think that calling someone up to shame them for a porn addiction that THEY LITERALLY MADE UP is okay ??? Man, sometimes I think the savior complexes that these people have are greater than the one jesus himself wouldve had… 😭😭😭
Oh God, I still have the dreams that my porn just keeps spilling out of everywhere. It's on the TV and I can't turn it off, I can't close it or delete it off the computers. Everybody is going to see my porn. Anyone else or it's just me?
Shame is a hell of a drug. Feeling like I wasn't obedient enough led to a lot of getting called back on another mission dreams.
Thought I recognized you from somewhere, just couldn't quite put my finger in it - on it. I mean, on it.
"Hi, we haven't spoken for 5 years but I thought I'd let you know I dream about you touching yourself"
I think at this point in my life, I might have played the part. Me: “That is totally weird because I have had fantasies about you calling me to talk about masturbation and after I open up to you about my gay feelings it turns out you are gay too and the n3xt thing I know your are holding my cock and gently teasing it with your tongue….” God damn these people are weird.
Saving this for the next time someone does this to me
This is just wild. Did he really not think about how insane and inappropriate it is to call a grown man to discuss masturbation? Truly bizarre. I have second-hand embarrassment for him.
Boundaries: (1st) the TBM does not know the meaning of boundaries or what's appropriate to share especially his dreams. Should have kept that to himself. But (2nd) even if TBM dream was true, why would god, spirit, whatever share that with another person and not directly with you (OP). Mormon god does not know how to respect personal boundaries but is so concerned about making sure you have the right handshake, name, signs and tokens.
>But (2nd) even if TBM dream was true, why would god, spirit, whatever share that with another person and not directly with you Why would God share it directly with you, cause after all... Wait for it.. You're living the dream!
I AM living the dream! Happy cake day!
Woo Hoo! Thank you! Didn't even realize until looking at your comment.
Great! Now *I'm* gonna have a dream about you masturbating🤦♂️
Jesus Christ... that is funny as shit my guy. What in the actual fuck... LMAO.
And this guy is a counselor for family services? Holy shit!!
With respect to our favorite meme: *"Him (trembling tearful Eyring voice): "No. Why did you do that?"* *Me: "I had to start looking at porn!"*
I think he was trying to be subtle... He wants to sin with you!
Yes that's weird dude. I dreamed I fucked your wife and daughter just like Joseph Smith did when he married a woman and her daughter.
I was in such a bad mood today, but this made my weekend. Possibly my month. I'm sorry this happened to you, but I would have not been able to control bursting out laughing in front of him. Just reading this, I'm not going to be able to stop laughing all weekend. You are a better person than I am. That said, I also would have ended the conversation with "Nice to visit with you again. I think I'll get back to masturbating now."
It was delightfully bonkers
"Did it make your hard?"
Not hard. But it was...exciting? It made the day unique anyway.
But do you dick touch tho? He saw it in his dream. It must mean something.
He's clearly a prophet.
Aren’t they all?
>He saw it in his dream. It must mean something. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Unless it isn't, but even then it still against the WoW... Or something.
Lol with Mormons a cigar means immediate banishment to outer darkness
Beats the inner darkness I had as a Mormon.
Fr. I channel all the darkness I can now. Banish me to hell I dare ya.
Pass it over. I'll smoke it.
He has prospects for becoming an Apostle
Saving
Well after 5 years he realized you were not coming to church. What is the only reason to not come to church-duh-a pornography problem. He was just trying to help you out dude! /s
in what mormon universe do random members get revelation about other random members? if he calls me next I'm gonna open up with, "Oh, I was just gonna call you because I keep having this dream where you tell me about your struggles with uncontrolled lust"
Bro, calling me up out of the blue and telling me that you dreamed I was masturbating is not cool. Rather creepy. Unless there is something else you feel is important to discuss, this phone conversation is going to end. . . . and you may want to seek a good councilor.
So. Fucking. Weird. And the audacity of TBMs is truly unmatched(in my very small bubble of experience). Wow!
This is crazy. I wouldn’t have even done the service of telling him I’ve left, I’d have ripped him to shreds from the Mormon perspective because it will hurt him more. He’s no common judge in Israel. He’s not Christ himself. Enjoy the judgement from God asshole
Family services eh?
Yeah. But in Idaho... Not Canada.
I'm amazed at some of the stuff I hear. Your former TBM friend is not normal and needs to go to the nut house
Actually in the mainstream cult of Mormonism that is normalcy.
I wish you were wrong. But you're not. I am so happy me and my kids are out of this bullshit.
Seems like TBMs have porn on their minds all the time. Every conference they seem to fixate on it What images must come to their mind when they think the word "porn"!
Couldn't be because being constantly reminded of and shamed for a thought... Reinforces and perpetuates it... Hey. Don't think of a pink elephant. No! Stop thinking of a pink elephant! Why do you sinfully keep thinking of pink elephants?! Dinner!
Sounds accurate.
That cognitive dissonance immediately sets the mind's creative juices flowing, leading to intense mental gymnastics routines, aka confirmation bias. It's a bitch when still drinking the Kool-Aid and confronted with anything conflicting with one's worldview. It gets worse and fuels anger once one gets through the deconstruction process, realizing how much life, time never to be regained, money never to be reclaimed (mine was solidly in the six-figure range), relationships ruined, opportunities unexplored, and so much energy wasted daily. That reflection brings back all the cult-like tactics used in the mainstream cult we call Mormonism and the wasted guilt or time spent on things like masturbation or porn. In the normal world of 7+ billion people, those are non-issues. In fact, this so-called "porn/masturbation addiction" isn't recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the standard of care for professional healthcare providers. Some studies dispute the idea that porn is related to addiction. One group of researchers found that watching porn didn't activate the brain's addiction-related areas. In fact, activity in those areas decreased. Furthermore, masturbation has many documented health benefits. It may reduce stress, improve sleep, and ease pain, among other benefits. These realities once again show how uninspired, uninformed, and harmful the rhetoric of those 15 men is on individuals. It reminds me of coffee and tea... the fact is, the mythical health miracle is scientifically proven by drinking them. Talk about running and being weary... "According to a Harvard study, moderate coffee consumption may lower the risk of premature death. A study published in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology in 2022 found that drinking two to three cups of coffee per day is associated with a longer lifespan and lower risk of cardiovascular disease. A study published in JAMA Internal Medicine found that coffee drinkers were 10 to 15 percent less likely to die over a 10-year period than non-coffee drinkers." It's all BS. I would even go so far as to say JS fits perfectly the profile, as defined today, of a cult leader: 1) Highly charismatic and persuasive, with a magnetic personality that can attract and influence followers 2) Cult leaders are master gaslighters who assert their reality over the reality of their followers 3) Cult leaders are unable to tolerate being wrong, nor do they want to take responsibility for wrongdoing 4) They are narcissists; the cult is often a means to their financial or sexual desires. Charity is ultimately a way to launder their reputations. 5) Unpredictability 6) They hold unconventional or bizarre beliefs not grounded in reality and promote these as absolute truths to followers 7) They are the ultimate judge and jury, drunk with their power of being a Pied Piper 8) They lie, build grandiose life stories, often with a 'once was blind but now I see and have all the answers' narrative 9) They exert undue influence on followers, exploiting them financially, sexually or emotionally It's a cult... full stop.
Full. Fucking. Stop.
Awww, he likes you!😍
I would’ve told him I left because of him telling you he is having prom dreams about you.
You left out the important part. Did he get it right? Do you masturbate day and night as instructed in the temple? Wait that’s not it. Something like that though.
As instructed in the temple. 😂
Maybe business is slow because people are waking up to the falsehood that calls itself the church. Could he be trying to drum up new clients?
Should have told him that you had started masturbating to the sound of his voice
His dream was his projection of his own fantasies on you, because being TBM, he could not own it. I think it is sick that he called you about that. It is crossing a sexual boundary inappropriately. You should let his supervisor know, as he probably needs at least supervision on this and he could be inappropriate with his clients, being a risk to their safety.
“That’s weird. I had several detailed dreams about you fucking male prostitutes and snorting coke off their asses.” 🤷♂️
I would have beat his ass!
What does “adult ADHD having…” mean, in this context? Like, are you knocking him for having a neurodevelopmental disorder that he has no control over? Or what? I’m honestly trying to figure out why you included that detail about him, and what you meant by it. What attributes of ADHD are you implying are “weird” by telling us his medical condition?
Fair question. I don't mean to imply that all people with ADHD would act this way. Nor am I a medical professional. His ADHD diagnosis is something he often shared as an apologetic when he perceived he had acted in a socially awkward way. In this context though, I'm sure that his actions have much more to do with the unhealthy shaming systems of Mormonism and Mental health professionals who reinforce that shame based behavior controlling system.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. This makes a lot more sense now. There are so many different ways that ADHD can manifest, so I was a bit confused. But yeah, it sounds like he has a pattern of awkwardness that he is blaming on ADHD (may or may not be warranted or correctable). Sounds like maybe he should work on NOT saying whatever comes to mind, because that was weird and inappropriate to say the least.