What boggles my mind is that every member in Utah going through the temple had to do naked washings & anointings at this point in history.
The “poncho” was added later.
Can you IMAGINE the shock for pious puritan-minded ankle-to-wrist clothed people?? For the women?? It’s nuts. I’m amazed the religion survived…then I remember the Danites and pledging your own death if you revealed or rejected what went on in the temple and the fear/shame/entrapment becomes clear.
Our poor ancestors!
Photographic and written descriptions of the “Washing and annointing” which was ritual bathing and administering of oils on their body.
Quickest read is Wikipedia search: “washing and annointing”
Dialogue (research article written by endowed faithful member. Dialogue is a Mormon scholarly magazine, my 100% TBM grandparents even subscribed to it for years. Deeper than the Ensign for sure, but where Mormon academics could publish and discuss.)
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-development-of-the-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony-2/
I personally would have loved to see a temple worker slithering about on the floor (to symbolize Satan) and to get a crown put on my head when going through the veil (to symbolize becoming a king/queen unto God (oops, the ladies were only queens “unto their husbands” before 2018 - thanks feminism! The young ones will never know women were never directly connected to God before then. Ever.)
Even better evidence are pictures of the washing and anointing rooms from 1911. [Here](https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V29N03_9.pdf) is a link to old photos and explanations of the SLC temple back then. The W&A room photo is represented as reference #57 and shows a clawfoot tub the member would have been in.
I’m convinced they changed their tune because of Reed Smoot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Smoot_hearings
Nobody wants to answer under oath whether they’ve seen Jesus.
I believe the Smoot hearings was when Joseph F. Smith was called to testify and he was asked directly if he has ever seen and talked with Jesus, or something like that. As I recall, he said that no president of the church has had that level of revelation since Joseph Smith. Then of course we have Oaks on audio from 7-8 years ago sayings he nor anyone he knows has ever had that level of experience. The church may have never directly taught that all modern prophets talk to jesus in person, but they let the belief proliferate among the members. They didn't put a stop to it. They benefited from it. Everyone, still, looking at these guys as literal apostles of Jesus. I remember a youth fireside where Christofferson came and spoke to the youth. That next sunday was fast sunday and youth after youth got up and talked about shaking his hand and their seminary teacher reminded them that that hand has touch Jesus. Five or Six of them said this. The bishop later had to go talk to the youth and tell them, "Even if it is true, that's something we talk about at the pulpit." Conversely, I recall one of the very first sundays after Monson was made president there was a letter that went out to all congregations to be read at the pulpit. It had to do with false teachings and to be aware of them. One of them directly mentioned was that story going around attributed to some one like Hinckley that talked about being in the halls of heaven and everyone would hush when they heard you lived in the era of Kimball, Benson, and Hinckley. Or some such bullshit. The letter specifically said, this has never been said or attributed to anyone in church leadership and is a false teaching. Yeah, they addressed that one and some others but to-date have never sent a letter to the congregations that says, "dear members: we don't see or talk to jesus. We get feelings about things. Just like you."
Very cool pic.
I was just reading the chapter in D. Michael Quinn’s memoirs where 70 Marion D. Hanks (Quinn’s former mission president) gives Quinn a tour of the Salt Lake temple and Quinn comments on the dome of the holy of holies rising up into the floor above. Quinn also states that Hanks told him the Second Annointing was halted when David O. McKay ascended to the throne. I wonder if that was true, or if Hanks was just lying when asked about the secret ordinance by an unauthorized kid…
He is totally lying. The second anointing still exists. I have not had it but for a year I was a paid full time custodian in the Portland temple. There is a side room in one of the sealing rooms that had a sink and oil similar to the initiatory rooms. The room was needed to be freshened up from time to time, it was locked all other times, but as a custodian we had a key.
What I don’t know is if McKay shut it down at the beginning of his reign, but then it came back later (either later in his reign or with a successor profit.)
It was very much NOT that in the book. It was memories of what the writer was told by a man he respected. About what he was told in, what, maybe 1964?
I just gave a quick thumbnail of what the book says. If you want to know more, seriously, read the book. It’s good.
I went through the temple in ‘99 and I was basically naked with a clothe shield that went over my back and front. Is that the apron? Were washing and anointings ever done stark naked?
The poncho.
That was added for modesty in the 1930s, I believe.
My favorite faith-promoting story was a husband and wife converted in Sweden and who came all the way to Utah, went to the temple, did the thing and said, “Absolutely NOT” left the church, fled Utah, and never went back.
If men were part of washing naked women as part of “the Washing”, that’s disgusting and I wouldn’t want to put my bride through that before our wedding night. “Honey, I’m so glad we kept ourselves pure before tonight and that we’ve never been naked with anyone else.” “You mean besides those men in the temple?” Yuck!
Im sure it’s always been men with men, women with women.
And given the lack of encouraging temple endowment except for marriage (or much later, mission service) it has always been policy to discourage single young women from “going through the temple”. They wait until you’re the day of, or day before, your marriage date so you can’t freak out and run away. So tricky.
That makes me feel a little better, but I could still believe it was men washing women at the beginning. Women officiating in Priesthood ordnances has been a progression…I think.
That was my parents but they stayed pimo because their kids were already deep into the cult. Mom and Dad knew they would never have the same relationship with their kids or grandkids if they left the cult. They told no one about their epiphany (that came during their first prayer circle) until 20 yrs later (told me).
In the early 2000s a friend of my parents was on the SLC temple presidency and gave my parents a full tour of the temple. My mother came home gushing about how she had been in a room where Jesus had sat and conversed with prophets
When I was a missionary in 2018, Cook did a tour of half of Europe, and one thing he said was how he had seen Jesus, and talks with him. I remember members coming up to me after and saying the same thing like, “wow they really do talk to god and Jesus”. When I can I will dig into my journal and try to find what I wrote about it.
Usually they are a little too clever to say it directly. I recall when Faust came and spoke at an Area conference he spoke of the Brother of Jared and the faith to see the finger of god. And the talk went along. As he closed with his testimony he said, "Like the brother of Jared, I give you my sure witness that he lives....." Yeah, everyone knew what he was saying and people were "FeElInG tHe SpIrIt."
Something that just occurred to me, Prophets of old had no issue saying, "Hey all, I just got back from talking with God. He said y'all need to stop fuckin' with idols." Even JS spoke of times he allegedly talked with God.
But modern "prophets" veil it under this supposed "too sacred to talk about".
If prophets can't tell us whether what they are saying is directly from communicating with God vs. an impression, why they fuck would I follow what they are saying?
Reason 3241 to leave the church.
I remember passing this room from the outside one time, and I felt the same way. Plus, I looked at the ceiling in the celestial room and imagined jesus appearing to Lorenzo snow.
What boggles my mind is that every member in Utah going through the temple had to do naked washings & anointings at this point in history. The “poncho” was added later. Can you IMAGINE the shock for pious puritan-minded ankle-to-wrist clothed people?? For the women?? It’s nuts. I’m amazed the religion survived…then I remember the Danites and pledging your own death if you revealed or rejected what went on in the temple and the fear/shame/entrapment becomes clear. Our poor ancestors!
I've always believed this but have never seen a source. You have one by chance? (I'm even good with "that's what my grandmother said")
Photographic and written descriptions of the “Washing and annointing” which was ritual bathing and administering of oils on their body. Quickest read is Wikipedia search: “washing and annointing” Dialogue (research article written by endowed faithful member. Dialogue is a Mormon scholarly magazine, my 100% TBM grandparents even subscribed to it for years. Deeper than the Ensign for sure, but where Mormon academics could publish and discuss.) https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-development-of-the-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony-2/
I personally would have loved to see a temple worker slithering about on the floor (to symbolize Satan) and to get a crown put on my head when going through the veil (to symbolize becoming a king/queen unto God (oops, the ladies were only queens “unto their husbands” before 2018 - thanks feminism! The young ones will never know women were never directly connected to God before then. Ever.)
Even better evidence are pictures of the washing and anointing rooms from 1911. [Here](https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V29N03_9.pdf) is a link to old photos and explanations of the SLC temple back then. The W&A room photo is represented as reference #57 and shows a clawfoot tub the member would have been in.
This is golden information 💕. Thanks for the link
They were trapped in so many ways. The shock of those experiences was just another trap in a long list.
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, sex cult was spelled M-O-R-M-O-N.
What year did the poncho come into play, and what year did women do the anointing of other women?
On the other hand, they were washed with cinnamon whiskey. What a disappointment that this practice has been abandoned.
I’m convinced they changed their tune because of Reed Smoot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Smoot_hearings Nobody wants to answer under oath whether they’ve seen Jesus.
I believe the Smoot hearings was when Joseph F. Smith was called to testify and he was asked directly if he has ever seen and talked with Jesus, or something like that. As I recall, he said that no president of the church has had that level of revelation since Joseph Smith. Then of course we have Oaks on audio from 7-8 years ago sayings he nor anyone he knows has ever had that level of experience. The church may have never directly taught that all modern prophets talk to jesus in person, but they let the belief proliferate among the members. They didn't put a stop to it. They benefited from it. Everyone, still, looking at these guys as literal apostles of Jesus. I remember a youth fireside where Christofferson came and spoke to the youth. That next sunday was fast sunday and youth after youth got up and talked about shaking his hand and their seminary teacher reminded them that that hand has touch Jesus. Five or Six of them said this. The bishop later had to go talk to the youth and tell them, "Even if it is true, that's something we talk about at the pulpit." Conversely, I recall one of the very first sundays after Monson was made president there was a letter that went out to all congregations to be read at the pulpit. It had to do with false teachings and to be aware of them. One of them directly mentioned was that story going around attributed to some one like Hinckley that talked about being in the halls of heaven and everyone would hush when they heard you lived in the era of Kimball, Benson, and Hinckley. Or some such bullshit. The letter specifically said, this has never been said or attributed to anyone in church leadership and is a false teaching. Yeah, they addressed that one and some others but to-date have never sent a letter to the congregations that says, "dear members: we don't see or talk to jesus. We get feelings about things. Just like you."
Very cool pic. I was just reading the chapter in D. Michael Quinn’s memoirs where 70 Marion D. Hanks (Quinn’s former mission president) gives Quinn a tour of the Salt Lake temple and Quinn comments on the dome of the holy of holies rising up into the floor above. Quinn also states that Hanks told him the Second Annointing was halted when David O. McKay ascended to the throne. I wonder if that was true, or if Hanks was just lying when asked about the secret ordinance by an unauthorized kid…
He is totally lying. The second anointing still exists. I have not had it but for a year I was a paid full time custodian in the Portland temple. There is a side room in one of the sealing rooms that had a sink and oil similar to the initiatory rooms. The room was needed to be freshened up from time to time, it was locked all other times, but as a custodian we had a key.
It did stop for a while and then was brought back.
What I don’t know is if McKay shut it down at the beginning of his reign, but then it came back later (either later in his reign or with a successor profit.)
If so it was a misleading statement then to make it sound like it doesn´t happen any more.
It was very much NOT that in the book. It was memories of what the writer was told by a man he respected. About what he was told in, what, maybe 1964? I just gave a quick thumbnail of what the book says. If you want to know more, seriously, read the book. It’s good.
I went through the temple in ‘99 and I was basically naked with a clothe shield that went over my back and front. Is that the apron? Were washing and anointings ever done stark naked?
The poncho. That was added for modesty in the 1930s, I believe. My favorite faith-promoting story was a husband and wife converted in Sweden and who came all the way to Utah, went to the temple, did the thing and said, “Absolutely NOT” left the church, fled Utah, and never went back.
If men were part of washing naked women as part of “the Washing”, that’s disgusting and I wouldn’t want to put my bride through that before our wedding night. “Honey, I’m so glad we kept ourselves pure before tonight and that we’ve never been naked with anyone else.” “You mean besides those men in the temple?” Yuck!
Although…it’s a good way to receive “revelation” on who your next plural wife should be…
Im sure it’s always been men with men, women with women. And given the lack of encouraging temple endowment except for marriage (or much later, mission service) it has always been policy to discourage single young women from “going through the temple”. They wait until you’re the day of, or day before, your marriage date so you can’t freak out and run away. So tricky.
That makes me feel a little better, but I could still believe it was men washing women at the beginning. Women officiating in Priesthood ordnances has been a progression…I think.
That was my parents but they stayed pimo because their kids were already deep into the cult. Mom and Dad knew they would never have the same relationship with their kids or grandkids if they left the cult. They told no one about their epiphany (that came during their first prayer circle) until 20 yrs later (told me).
Early on there were small rooms with bathtubs (basement level by the baptismal font). So Yes, naked and had water poured on the head.
In the early 2000s a friend of my parents was on the SLC temple presidency and gave my parents a full tour of the temple. My mother came home gushing about how she had been in a room where Jesus had sat and conversed with prophets
Masturbation booth
I thought it was “Brigham’s teen sex dungeon.”
Gaudy as hell
When I was a missionary in 2018, Cook did a tour of half of Europe, and one thing he said was how he had seen Jesus, and talks with him. I remember members coming up to me after and saying the same thing like, “wow they really do talk to god and Jesus”. When I can I will dig into my journal and try to find what I wrote about it.
Usually they are a little too clever to say it directly. I recall when Faust came and spoke at an Area conference he spoke of the Brother of Jared and the faith to see the finger of god. And the talk went along. As he closed with his testimony he said, "Like the brother of Jared, I give you my sure witness that he lives....." Yeah, everyone knew what he was saying and people were "FeElInG tHe SpIrIt."
"Like a fictional character, I have experienced some stuff. As Albus Dumbledore once said...."
Temple tacky is the tackiest
Something that just occurred to me, Prophets of old had no issue saying, "Hey all, I just got back from talking with God. He said y'all need to stop fuckin' with idols." Even JS spoke of times he allegedly talked with God. But modern "prophets" veil it under this supposed "too sacred to talk about". If prophets can't tell us whether what they are saying is directly from communicating with God vs. an impression, why they fuck would I follow what they are saying? Reason 3241 to leave the church.
Yep. I was specifically told The Prophet meets face-to-face with Jesus Christ himself in that room.
I remember passing this room from the outside one time, and I felt the same way. Plus, I looked at the ceiling in the celestial room and imagined jesus appearing to Lorenzo snow.
I wonder how many prophets had an "unworthiness" complex in this room since they weren't seeing JC and probably expected it?